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When where the earliest mast-arms installed in Pennsylvania

The Mid-to-Late 1960s
- 1 (100%)
1970
- 0 (0%)
1971
- 0 (0%)
1972
- 0 (0%)
1973
- 0 (0%)
1974
- 0 (0%)
1975
- 0 (0%)
1976
- 0 (0%)
1977
- 0 (0%)
1978 or later
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 1


Author Topic: Pennylvania's history: Further investigation  (Read 791 times)

traffic light guy

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Pennylvania's history: Further investigation
« on: July 19, 2017, 12:43:49 AM »

This is a revived topic, but further info is needed upon farther investigation on when Pennsylvania installed their first traffic signal mast-arms. I have old media to back up my evidence, but I need help. First we have Philly. While the rest of the state had already adopted the use of mast-arms during the 1960s, Philadelphia caught on around 1975 or so:

Here's a Philadelphia headline, date printed; November 28, 1975:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj40KydvJTVAhVDWD4KHWulCEMQFgg6MAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspapers.com%2Fnewspage%2F185336089%2F&usg=AFQjCNHN-lgwyXZ4eSkKEMmmZwZnKYD26A
This newspaper article states "A $4.2-million improvement of traffic flow in center city, including The city is at the half-way point of a $50-million program to improve traffic flow and reduce accidents on Philadelphia highways. "Some $25-million worth of projects are near completion, according to installation of new traffic signals and overhead lights." Could they mean mast-arms when saying"Overhead lights." "A $5.5-million improvement of North Broad St. scheduled fur completion this spring. the modernization and interconnection of over 100 signalized intersections" When they say scheduled for completion this spring, that could mean, the signals were done in Spring 1976.

There are quite a few of these classic traffic light installs left on N Broad Street, if i'm not mistaken. (Most likely erected during April or May of 1976)
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0579996,-75.1391156,3a,75y,64.76h,80.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1lk1fXipo_fB-8mCZ2R4QA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1lk1fXipo_fB-8mCZ2R4QA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D89.47369%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0565493,-75.1399927,3a,33y,57.63h,95.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGdILauHEFLepWxTvhbwCcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0536641,-75.1417677,3a,75y,187.09h,104.43t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx1kBVCgRKm2qJVJJwOCNnA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dx1kBVCgRKm2qJVJJwOCNnA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D31.981186%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0520971,-75.1417605,3a,48.2y,247.33h,97.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sg9cGWk4lXAGMpgmIwKCQ5g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dg9cGWk4lXAGMpgmIwKCQ5g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D312.2283%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0506379,-75.1421628,3a,75y,218.2h,79.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s91mYSKnJHhb_X__q8ItVzw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D91mYSKnJHhb_X__q8ItVzw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D133.01822%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0444471,-75.1434782,3a,75y,232.24h,90.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sj15vjXC-36B9GKAZKw4o4g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dj15vjXC-36B9GKAZKw4o4g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D71.75108%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

These Spring 1976 installs include as what follows:
Crouse-Hinds Type M (Discontinued production in the 60s)
Eagle flatback (ceased production in 1973)
Econolite Bullseye (Still in production at the time)
Crouse-Hinds Type R (Still in production at the time)
Highway Signs and Signals Corporation (information unknown)


The problem is, half of the brands in these installs ceased production by Spring 1976. (They probably re-installed the heads when the mast-arms came, or they sat them in a signal storage unit for a couple of years) Someone clue me in on this. The other 1975-76 installs got wiped out in 2008, when the city did signal upgrades, a mere thirty-two years after the original mast-arm project's completion.

Here are some of the 2008 TCT replacements:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.039059,-75.1447,3a,75y,219.31h,87.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN0HZGkGprO7sD3C0VbRZ1A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN0HZGkGprO7sD3C0VbRZ1A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D27.886194%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0352413,-75.1455397,3a,75y,217.32h,85.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEANVjNr1Y942khuYuDiwEQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DEANVjNr1Y942khuYuDiwEQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D34.099564%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0309327,-75.1465031,3a,62.6y,238.52h,82.97t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suWiY3G2dGye3P8kBiTTAxw!2e0!5s20110701T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0


So far, so good. North Broad Street was done by Spring 1976. If I made any mistakes, someone needs to help me out, however it can't take a whole year to install new signals, usually it takes months. Anyway, it's possible that the southern half of Broad Street was being done during 1975. I do have a gut feeling that these installs look a tad bit older than 1976, they look 1972-ish. I'll be back with classic photos of Philly for clarification.



« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 09:56:21 PM by traffic light guy »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 02:18:23 PM »

...however it can't take a whole year to install new signals, usually it takes months...

You're not familiar with Philly, are you?   :-D
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 07:45:44 PM »

...however it can't take a whole year to install new signals, usually it takes months...

You're not familiar with Philly, are you?   :-D
In April 2014 they did a project where they installed new siganls. The signals were up and running by July. 
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Beltway

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 07:50:04 PM »

This is a revived topic, but further info is needed upon farther investigation on when Philly installed their first traffic signal mast-arms. I have old media to back up my evidence, but I need help.

I know I saw some, at least in the suburbs, when I moved there in 1972.

PennDOT and the city didn't do much in span-wire installations, and most signals were pedestal-mounted near the curb.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 07:52:09 PM by Beltway »
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 07:51:00 PM »


I know I saw some, at least in the suburbs, when I moved there in 1972.
12-inch Eagle flatbacks on angled mast-arms?
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Beltway

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 07:53:12 PM »

I know I saw some, at least in the suburbs, when I moved there in 1972.
12-inch Eagle flatbacks on angled mast-arms?

I think they were an angled design, not a straight tube.
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 08:21:10 PM »

Here's proof that Broad Street didn't have mast-arms until 1975:

https://www.philadelphiabuildings.org/pab/app/ho_display.cfm/131422

Nope, no mast arms yet, you can only see a set of Crouse-Hinds signals on a pedestal.
Photo taken: 4/11/1971

Here's farther proof. According to these images.

Here's Broad Street in Spring 1974, tell me what you see. That's right.....no mast-arms yet.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75185189@N07/6762615225/in/album-72157629032433719/


Broad Street, June 1975, 4-section traffic signal on a pedestal:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75185189@N07/6762619457/in/album-72157629032433719/


Mast-Arms found! Newly installed Crouse-Hinds Type M and Eagle flatback (Broad Street) Shot in June 1975:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75185189@N07/6762618587/in/album-72157629032433719/
(Replaced by McCains in the 2000s)

More newly installed mast-arm traffic lights. Shot in June 1975:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75185189@N07/6762617169/in/album-72157629032433719/
(Replaced by McCains in the 2000s)

More newly installed signals. Mast-Arm mounted set of 12" Eagle flatbacks in the background, shot in June 1975:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75185189@N07/6762620595/in/album-72157629032433719/
(Also replaced by McCains)

All the mast-arms in these 1975 photos look pretty shiny, and the signal heads are bright yellow, instead of brown. The first half of Broad Street's signal mast-arms were being done sometime between Autumn 1974 and Summer 1975.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 09:23:26 PM by traffic light guy »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 10:28:31 PM »

...however it can't take a whole year to install new signals, usually it takes months...

You're not familiar with Philly, are you?   :-D
In April 2014 they did a project where they installed new siganls. The signals were up and running by July. 

Because it's such a large city with numerous different projects going on, it's tough to identify exactly which project you're referring to. That said, I think you are looking at a very limited time period of a project. For example, this project, http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20141106_Better_traffic-light_system_coming_to_Center_City.html?mobi=true , which "began" in 2014,  actually had a history that dates back 18 years to 1996!
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 10:43:35 PM »

...however it can't take a whole year to install new signals, usually it takes months...

You're not familiar with Philly, are you?   :-D
In April 2014 they did a project where they installed new signals. The signals were up and running by July. 

Because it's such a large city with numerous different projects going on, it's tough to identify exactly which project you're referring to. That said, I think you are looking at a very limited time period of a project. For example, this project, http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20141106_Better_traffic-light_system_coming_to_Center_City.html?mobi=true , which "began" in 2014,  actually had a history that dates back 18 years to 1996!

I'm referring to the 1975/76 Broad Street project, that involved the installation of new mast-arms (Most of these signals are Eagle flatbacks, crouse-hinds, and econolite bullseyes) Did you take a look at my google maps shots? It shows that some of the Spring 1976 mast-arm installs are still serving.

And in 1996, they probably replaced the 50s-era mechanical pedestal installs, the 1970s-era mast-arms were possibly left untouched since they weren't old enough at the time (Some were only about 19 years old by 1996). None of the 1970s-era mast-arms came down until 2008.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 10:55:17 PM »

I was directly referring to the 2014 project you mentioned...thus the quote.
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2017, 11:09:37 PM »

I was directly referring to the 2014 project you mentioned...thus the quote.

My mistake. Plus, PA does have the tendency to replace signals that aren't really that old. I remember in 2008, they replaced a sets of 1990s-era TCT signals with a set of Durasigs. (This was in along Easton Road in cheltenham). In my opinion, signals shouldn't be replaced until they're 35 to 40 years old (Unless they do plans to widen the intersection)
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2017, 01:27:17 PM »

I was directly referring to the 2014 project you mentioned...thus the quote.

The 2014 project was along Stenton Avenue.
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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 06:28:16 PM »

More leads and clues, more and more evidence (Ignore the trolleys, this is strictly traffic signal based)



Here's a photo taken in 1967: Mast-arm pedestal mounted Crouse-Hinds Type M traffic lights:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/531213718523418897

Mast-Arm supported Eagle flatbacks and Econolite Bullseye (December 1977) (Broad Street):
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/531213718524158349


Crouse-Hinds Type Rs (mast-arm) (1977)
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/429812358160169751

Norristown, mast-arm mounted Eagle flatbacks (May 1976) (I know it's outside of Philly, but it's still in the area):

https://thetrolleydodger.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/pict141.jpg?w=665&h=437

So, far the earliest set of PA mast-arms caught on camera was shot in June 1975.


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traffic light guy

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Re: Philly's history: Further investigation
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 06:32:31 PM »

Eagle flatbacks on angled mast-arms, in the background, shot in May 1976:
https://thetrolleydodger.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/pict145.jpg
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traffic light guy

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Re: Pennylvania's history: Further investigation
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 10:12:17 PM »

Part 2: Pottstown

This area has many old equipment, unfortunately, the state has been funding to replace these for a while. Many of these installs are old 12" eagle flatbacks and 3Ms...hanging on Jersey style truss-arms or on standard monotube mast-arms. These old signals are at least older than 1975 at the very least. Some intersections have ancient 1950's Post WWII-era Crouse-Hinds Art Decos on pedestals, others have old overhead hanging 1960s/70s era Eagle flatback and 3M installs: https://hiveminer.com/Tags/pottstown,sign/Interesting

I ran across some old photos of Pottstown during Hurricane Agnes (June 1972), a lot of the Eagle installs I just mentioned are shown in these, which goes to show, they've been up for a while!

<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JK8La_H1jTg/T94Y97AyZ8I/AAAAAAAAASw/xz_1uCTGXsA/s1600/Flood+High+Street.jpg" alt="Image result for pottstown flood 1972"/>

<img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e8/e5/14/e8e5140a839e9d655785bc8420b529ff--june--th-anniversary.jpg" alt="Related image"/>
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