4-lane roads that would be adequate as 2-lane roads

Started by fillup420, October 22, 2017, 11:56:36 PM

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Takumi

Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business.  It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.

Not quite. I-95 was open to VA 35 in 1961 and the 4-lane section of 301, as Scott said, was a few years before that.

The 13 miles of I-95 between NC and north of Emporia was open by 1963.  The 28 miles of 4-lane US-301 was seamless with I-95 north and south of it.

Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Overall, sounds pretty interesting. I imagine the 301/40 intersection was much busier than it is now. Even the exit to the north is busier due to the Davis Travel Plaza.

The US-301 roadways were about 80 feet apart at the VA-40 junction, so there were actually two signalized intersections, one for each US-301 roadway, and the signals were timed to work together.  VA-40 was two lanes thruout and lined up where the current US-301/Business VA-40 intersection is located.  Pretty sure that the signals had a loop actuated left turn movement for US-301 to VA-40.

The VA-40 Stony Creek Bypass was built as part of the I-95 project.
Sounds a bit like the VA 36 intersections at the Crossings shopping center in Hopewell.
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cpzilliacus

Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.

Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.

There are long sections of U.S. 1 in Virginia that feature that design to this day, and probably always will.
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Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 29, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.
There are long sections of U.S. 1 in Virginia that feature that design to this day, and probably always will.

Yes, I thought of adding that, US-1 between Petersburg and Arlington was built at that same time as a 4-lane undivided highway.  Some places it has been widened or rebuilt but most of the route has not.
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Roadgeekteen

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US 89

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 29, 2017, 10:26:57 PM
I-95 north of Bangor.

Reply #44:

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 27, 2017, 05:18:23 PM
As you know, I-95 between Bangor, Maine and Houlton was mostly Super-2 when it  opened to traffic.  In spite of many large signs warning drivers that they were on a two-lane undivided highway, there were many head-on crashes, and it is now a conventional-looking 4 lane rural Interstate, in spite of low traffic counts.

Many  U.S. drivers are not familiar with high-speed 2 lane roads, and the risk of forgetting  that they are on such a road is significant.

roadman65

Quote from: Beltway on October 29, 2017, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 29, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.
There are long sections of U.S. 1 in Virginia that feature that design to this day, and probably always will.

Yes, I thought of adding that, US-1 between Petersburg and Arlington was built at that same time as a 4-lane undivided highway.  Some places it has been widened or rebuilt but most of the route has not.
Most of it north of Richmond is undivided with a double line and no paved median. 

To get back with roads without a median, you have further south on US 1 where in GA north of Baxley it has a 6 feet paved median with dual double lines on both sides.  It last for several miles up until about the Emanuel County line south of Lyons.

I believe most of the Merricmac Trail and Jefferson Avenue (VA 143) is four lanes and no median as that was old VA 168 which was pretty much the main highway before I-64 between Norfolk and Toano and not US 60 as that was pretty much two lanes mostly between Newport News and Williamsburg and for years was even two lanes up to Busch Gardens.
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Sheryl Crowe

plain

Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 10:38:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business.  It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.

Not quite. I-95 was open to VA 35 in 1961 and the 4-lane section of 301, as Scott said, was a few years before that.

The 13 miles of I-95 between NC and north of Emporia was open by 1963.  The 28 miles of 4-lane US-301 was seamless with I-95 north and south of it.

Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Overall, sounds pretty interesting. I imagine the 301/40 intersection was much busier than it is now. Even the exit to the north is busier due to the Davis Travel Plaza.

The US-301 roadways were about 80 feet apart at the VA-40 junction, so there were actually two signalized intersections, one for each US-301 roadway, and the signals were timed to work together.  VA-40 was two lanes thruout and lined up where the current US-301/Business VA-40 intersection is located.  Pretty sure that the signals had a loop actuated left turn movement for US-301 to VA-40.

The VA-40 Stony Creek Bypass was built as part of the I-95 project.
Sounds a bit like the VA 36 intersections at the Crossings shopping center in Hopewell.

Virginia always had some very interesting construction techniques and ideas... I-64 between Exits 231 and 238 was definitely built in the same manner as I-95 between VA 35 and Jarrett. In I-64's case, the freeway's EB lanes were built on top of VA 168's WB lanes, while the freeway's WB lanes were built on new alignment to the north. VA 168's EB lanes (which is today's Rochambeau Dr) became a two-way road like much of US 301 did. Only difference is VA 168 (now gone from this area of course) actually got shifted onto I-64 while US 301 remained on the separate roadway(s).

Makes me wonder if any agencies outside of Virginia did something similar when building rural expressways
Newark born, Richmond bred

Beltway

Quote from: plain on October 30, 2017, 05:42:59 PM
Virginia always had some very interesting construction techniques and ideas... I-64 between Exits 231 and 238 was definitely built in the same manner as I-95 between VA 35 and Jarrett. In I-64's case, the freeway's EB lanes were built on top of VA 168's WB lanes, while the freeway's WB lanes were built on new alignment to the north. VA 168's EB lanes (which is today's Rochambeau Dr) became a two-way road like much of US 301 did. Only difference is VA 168 (now gone from this area of course) actually got shifted onto I-64 while US 301 remained on the separate roadway(s).
Makes me wonder if any agencies outside of Virginia did something similar when building rural expressways

Most likely.  The aforementioned I-64 and I-95 segments had several characteristics that together led to this method, 1) nonlimited-access 4-lane divided highway on an alignment usable for Interstate standards, 2) rural enough area that land can be acquired on one side of the existing highway without excessive right-of-way costs, and 3) land uses along existing highway that are compatible for Interstate highway.

The 4-land divided US-60 between Bottoms Bridge and Toano did not meet all those conditions, so I-64 was built on a new location bypass.
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cpzilliacus

#58
Quote from: plain on October 30, 2017, 05:42:59 PM
Makes me wonder if any agencies outside of Virginia did something similar when building rural expressways

Maryland did one better with I-70 in Frederick and Howard Counties between present-day Exit 59 (MD-144) and Exit 82 (U.S. 40) - this was the west end of the old I-70N.  Between those two exits, what is now I-70/U.S. 40 was just U.S. 40 (Baltimore National Pike), a four lane divided arterial with quite a few signalized intersections (including, if memory serves, every current interchange except at what is now Exit 59).  Maryland came in and converted the old arterial highway to the 6 lane freeway that runs there now.

Further west, in Washington County, Maryland, present-day I-70/U.S. 40 was once U.S. 40 (National Pike) east of Hancock.  I was on that road before I-70 arrived, but I do not recall what it looked like.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 30, 2017, 10:35:47 PM
Maryland did one better with I-70 in Frederick and Howard Counties between present-day Exit 59 (MD-144) and Exit 82 (U.S. 40) - this was the west end of the old I-70N.  Between those two exits, what is now I-70/U.S. 40 was just U.S. 40 (Baltimore National Pike), a four lane divided arterial with quite a few signalized intersections (including, if memory serves, every current interchange except at what is now Exit 59).  Maryland came in and converted the old arterial highway to the 6 lane freeway that runs there now.

But wasn't that segment of US-40 already an at-grade expressway, meaning built on a limited access right-of-way?  Better design standards to begin with, considerably simplifying its conversion to full freeway standards.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
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