AARoads Forum

A more logical title with the merger. I have news the four lane era is not over in Illinois.
I went to a Corridor 67 meeting today. There is new blood . There is an attitude I have never seen before.
There is a new program and ranking system . It doesn't mean a project won't make it. As other projects are completed others move up. This is supposedly on the website. They apologized for the website. Also the delay in 67 in North Warren County. I accepted that we waited long enough the road was a mess.
There is a lot of info. I will update some projects and give more detail later

First 67  Reconstruction funded Warren County and Macomb to Industry . I don't know those details
Beardstown Bridge will start next year. South  of Beardstown is funded for resurface but the District Engineer wants to enhanced safety Paved shoulders.
Never heard them want more before.
Kirk Brown region 5  said some of Jerseyville bypass is in MYP. I can't find it . But full funding hopefully come when they run it through the program again. It's ready to go.
BTW New Chair of 67 is Mayor of Jerseyville.
Kirk Brown mentioned another project he was working I too. I suspect Southwest Connector not 50.
Other I discussed Preemption area on 67  and need for its repair and a passing lane District Engineer  Kenai Garnett was receptive
He gave me updates on two others
Illinois 29 is alive they are looking at the engineering
336 however has been superseded by 24 which is funded Peoria County wants corridor protection dropped.
US 34 is funded most of the 4 lane will be completed in the current MYP.

 Idot.illinois.gov/data-driven-decisions.html

Quote from: 3467 on September 26, 2022, 08:17:53 PM
A more logical title with the merger. I have news the four lane era is not over in Illinois.
I went to a Corridor 67 meeting today. There is new blood . There is an attitude I have never seen before.
There is a new program and ranking system . It doesn't mean a project won't make it. As other projects are completed others move up. This is supposedly on the website. They apologized for the website. Also the delay in 67 in North Warren County. I accepted that we waited long enough the road was a mess.
There is a lot of info. I will update some projects and give more detail later

First 67  Reconstruction funded Warren County and Macomb to Industry . I don't know those details
Beardstown Bridge will start next year. South  of Beardstown is funded for resurface but the District Engineer wants to enhanced safety Paved shoulders.
Never heard them want more before.
Kirk Brown region 5  said some of Jerseyville bypass is in MYP. I can't find it . But full funding hopefully come when they run it through the program again. It's ready to go.
BTW New Chair of 67 is Mayor of Jerseyville.
Kirk Brown mentioned another project he was working I too. I suspect Southwest Connector not 50.
Other I discussed Preemption area on 67  and need for its repair and a passing lane District Engineer  Kenai Garnett was receptive
He gave me updates on two others
Illinois 29 is alive they are looking at the engineering
336 however has been superseded by 24 which is funded Peoria County wants corridor protection dropped.
US 34 is funded most of the 4 lane will be completed in the current MYP.

This is very positive and has to be the result of not only the constitutional amendment separating road funds from general funds, but also adequate capital from the recent doubling of the road fuels tax.

Not only does this allow for better long term planning, but keeps some politicians out of IDOT's hair when trying to get needs met with roads instead of back pocket favors.

It was information packed meeting. They tweaked the program when only Chicago projects came out. It's highly likely most of these projects will get funded.
Southwest is very interesting. If Pickneyville Nashville is funded that would be the Southwest Connector.
A future project might be to finish the 50 four lane to Carlyle. It has traffic and a high truck volume. The rest except near 57 is very low volume.

The last section of 4-lane IL 13 between Carbondale and Marion at Crab Orchard Lake, basically at Cambria and Carterville, is also listed to be expanded to 6 lanes

I got the impression these will all get done. Money is expected to be OK . Also as they catch up on maintenance and bridges they can do more.
Beardstown Bridge is still listed @74 but structural steel is way up. So it will be more they can cover without it being a big deal.
Big problem the labor shortage from covid in the department and construction.

Quote from: 3467 on September 26, 2022, 09:56:35 PM
Idot.illinois.gov/data-driven-decisions.html

According to the DDD scoring, these are the top IDOT capacity improvement projects by region/district:

Region 1 (Schaumburg): US 30 from IL 47 to ILL 31
Region 2 (Dixon/Ottawa): I-74/ILL 5 Interchange; I-80 Seneca Intchg to Morris Intchg
Region 3 (Peoria/Paris): US 34 from E of Gulfport to W of Biggsville; I-74 Prospect Ave to University Ave
Region 4 (Springfield/Effingham): I-55 Clear Lake Ave to Sangamon Ave; no candidate in D7
Region 5 (Collinsville/Carbondale): I-270 Six Laning Madison County; ILL 13 Crab Orchard

Region 4 is going to shift the stretch of 67 to Safety. He can add shoulders intersection improvements with out the DVD scoring which it scores very low due to very low volumes. Shoulders of whatever size exempt and not a flood plain issue. I got the impression same with passing lane. It was a strong hint what we should do for 104 to Macomb ....
Region 5 looks like he is going to run 67 and 127 through till he gets them.

Quote from: 3467 on September 27, 2022, 03:33:19 PM
Region 4 is going to shift the stretch of 67 to Safety. He can add shoulders intersection improvements with out the DVD scoring which it scores very low due to very low volumes. Shoulders of whatever size exempt and not a flood plain issue. I got the impression same with passing lane. It was a strong hint what we should do for 104 to Macomb ....
Region 5 looks like he is going to run 67 and 127 through till he gets them.

"Region 4 is going to shift the stretch of 67 to Safety."

Does this mean Beardstown to the Macomb Bypass?

"Region 5 looks like he is going to run 67 and 127 through till he gets them."

I assume Dehli to the Jerseyville Bypass or all the way to Manchester?

And IL-127 from Carbondale to Pickneyville makes sense as Pickneyville is where the updates connecting the Metro-East with the Carbondale-Marion-Harrisburg MSA will take place. Just which route IDOT will use is still debatable.

Waterloo to Sparta or the Freeburg to Sparta route?

Edit: Never mind, the SE Connector is the Waterloo Route to Sparta.

336 however has been superseded by 24 which is funded Peoria County wants corridor protection dropped.

The proposed route of 336 from Macomb east to the west side of Canton makes sense relative to US-24.

The problem is IDOT spent all their dough to get 336 to spin by Farmington and so it takes this big jog between Farmington and Canton to please both.

The jobs are in South Peoria off US-24 and that is where the people of Canton are coming and going.

If they can redirect corridor protection from west of Canton, through all the spent strip mines to Banner, then it would probably be more functional.

The City of Peoria didn't protect connection of I-74 and IL-336 going east to Farmington Road and recently allowed a Hindu Temple to build right along the IDOT owned ROW.

So who knows where this will end up.

336 is gone . Looks like IDOT is dropping corridor protection
It's the segment of 67 that was fun through the DDD . They are going to reclassify and just widen shoulder.
There is going to be room for another span at Beardstown but realistically the collapse in traffic on the whole segment is an issue.

I get the impression  that they will run each segment of 67 through on the southern segment. You can see there are 2alternatives on Pickneyville to St. Louis. I see one of the other. Just like 336 or 24

With corridor 67 getting active again I expect more updates on all the project.

I need to get a picture sometime, but the former weird at-grade, stop signed Y north of Royalton of IL 149 and IL 184 has been remade into a Traffic Circle/Round-about/whatever. It is an improvement, honestly.

But the picture needed: the WB 149 Approach Round-about Green Sign uses Bordered IL 184 and IL 149 shields! On a Green Sign (I hesitate to use "BGS"  because it's not really a "big"  sign" )! Straight out of Indiana!

Makes me wonder if an InDOT Sign Shop made the sign!

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 13, 2022, 08:08:05 PM
I need to get a picture sometime, but the former weird at-grade, stop signed Y north of Royalton of IL 149 and IL 184 has been remade into a Traffic Circle/Round-about/whatever. It is an improvement, honestly.

But the picture needed: the WB 149 Approach Round-about Green Sign uses Bordered IL 184 and IL 149 shields! On a Green Sign (I hesitate to use "BGS"  because it's not really a "big"  sign" )! Straight out of Indiana!

Makes me wonder if an InDOT Sign Shop made the sign!

Yes, I would like to see that sign. Post when you can.

Is it a real roundabout with yield approaches?  It's outside of a downtown area, so hopefully it won't be like that dumb Jonesboro circle.

It is a real yield-controlled to enter round-about

Comparable to the one at IL 154 and IL 13 just west of downtown Pinckneyville

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 14, 2022, 05:10:43 PM
It is a real yield-controlled to enter round-about

Comparable to the one at IL 154 and IL 13 just west of downtown Pinckneyville

Thanks.  The Pinckneyville roundabout was still that god-awful wye back when I lived there, but I see from GSV that it is indeed a nice yield-on-entry roundabout.

(That old wye was especially frustrating because I drove a box truck and couldn't exactly look sharply back over my right shoulder.  My usual route through the intersection was northwest-to-east, which meant a stop sign and no way to see traffic coming from my right.  Fortunately, I came to start using this little wide spot next to the stop sign (https://goo.gl/maps/KSTdi6Bb9BV1LFRCA) to get as close to 90° as possible.  Even if it wasn't quite legal, at least it was safer.  I'm not even sure it was paved back then (GSV goes back to August 2009, but that was back in 2007.)

Grabbed a couple of pics. One from the WB 149 approach (thru a dirty windshield, sorry) and one from the SB 184 approach. The EB(really NB here) 149 approach does not have the Round-about Green Sign with the shields, yet anyway. Yes, the IL shields are bordered. Not typical in IL. Also of note, Google Maps now shows the Round-about, but the "traffic conditions"  colors still follows the old "Y"  design, not thru the Round-about. I'm sure that will catch up eventually also
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52442864509_dd87084bd8_k.jpg"%20width="1536"%20height="2048")
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443039280_54995b2026_k.jpg"%20width="1536"%20height="2048")

Thanks for posting those. I was curious how Illinois was going to sign a roundabout of 2 state highways.

European style or with the fish hook on green.

The Pinckneyville one between IL 154 and IL 13 is up on GSV, fyi. It has been open for a few years now

Signing is pretty similar to this, but the Pinckneyville one uses "normal"  non-bordered shields on the GS

IDOT paid for the one at Cambria Rd and Herrin Rd (and soon to the Walker's Bluff Casino) at Blairsville, but those aren't signed state highways. Herrin Rd is a "hidden"  state route. Cambria Rd might be also, and certainly is between Herrin Rd and IL 149

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 20, 2022, 11:10:02 PM
Herrin Rd is a "hidden"  state route. Cambria Rd might be also, and certainly is between Herrin Rd and IL 149

Wow, I see what you mean about "might be"!   :confused:

On Cambria Road south of Herrin-Colp blacktop, there is an "end state maintenance" sign, and there's a similar sign heading north from Route 13.  Furthermore, the road is labeled as Williamson CR-9 between the two on the official IDOT map.  However, on the same map, the whole stretch is co-labeled as FAS-907–the same number as north of Herrin-Colp blacktop.  The only bids I can find online that mention "FAS 907" are for the Big Muddy River bridge, which portion you've already stated is definitely a state route.  So the only actual evidence I see of Cambria Road being a state route south of Herrin-Colp blacktop is that it's co-labeled as FAS-907 on the IDOT map.

(https://i.imgur.com/NbvKIa9.jpg)

IDOT's 'Getting Around Illinois' map lists the stretch between Herrin-Colp blacktop and Route 13 with 'Major Collector' as its functional class, but I'm not 100% sure that means it's not a state route.  I thi-i-i-i-ink it does:  I cannot identify any state route that's labeled that way (I thought I found a few, but I see no evidence of their being FAS routes now, so maybe they were turned back to counties at some point).

Quote from: kphoger on October 21, 2022, 12:09:40 PM

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 20, 2022, 11:10:02 PM
Herrin Rd is a "hidden"  state route. Cambria Rd might be also, and certainly is between Herrin Rd and IL 149

Wow, I see what you mean about "might be"!   :confused:

On Cambria Road south of Herrin-Colp blacktop, there is an "end state maintenance" sign, and there's a similar sign heading north from Route 13.  Furthermore, the road is labeled as Williamson CR-9 between the two on the official IDOT map.  However, on the same map, the whole stretch is co-labeled as FAS-907–the same number as north of Herrin-Colp blacktop.  The only bids I can find online that mention "FAS 907" are for the Big Muddy River bridge, which portion you've already stated is definitely a state route.  So the only actual evidence I see of Cambria Road being a state route south of Herrin-Colp blacktop is that it's co-labeled as FAS-907 on the IDOT map.

(https://i.imgur.com/NbvKIa9.jpg)

IDOT's 'Getting Around Illinois' map lists the stretch between Herrin-Colp blacktop and Route 13 with 'Major Collector' as its functional class, but I'm not 100% sure that means it's not a state route.  I thi-i-i-i-ink it does:  I cannot identify any state route that's labeled that way (I thought I found a few, but I see no evidence of their being FAS routes now, so maybe they were turned back to counties at some point).

IDOT will also be extending Herrin Rd to the new Walker's Bluff casino. They are either in Engineering or Study phase now. Casino is supposed to open late this year or early next, so it won't be done before the casino opens

AFA the "might be"  my comment wasn't so much from looking on the map, but moreso the idea that there is (almost) no way Cambria Rd, at least between (hidden) State Route Herrin Rd and IL SR 149 is not also a State Route, as that is a decently traveled corridor between Herrin, JC, etc over to DeSoto and Murphysboro. Have a coworker who uses that as his commuter route! And he isn't the only one that traverses that corridor

That said, the IDOT shields for "Herrin Rd"  and "Cambria Rd"  are pretty plain looking, just the words "Herrin Rd"  and "Cambria Rd"  in a blank white Shield box. They were displayed mostly during the closure when the intersection was closed a few years ago while IDOT installed the Round-about there

Functional class has no relationship to whether or not the route is state-maintained.  Functional class just aims to describe the role of a roadway in the overall roadway network.

Herrin Road has these mile markers that give away that it's an unmarked state highway, because these mile markers only appear on state-maintained roads in certain counties. Not all unmarked IDOT roads will have these mile markers, but all roads with these mile markers will be state-maintained roads (unless they are remnants from a past jurisdictional transfer).

https://goo.gl/maps/3Pf6abiKHw7wK2tm6

Illinois commits another $3.4 million to the Alexander - Cairo Port project.

https://www.kfvs12.com/2022/10/18/cairo-port-development-receives-34m/ (https://www.kfvs12.com/2022/10/18/cairo-port-development-receives-34m/)

The prospectus of this project says that several road upgrades are in the planning stage, but I am aware of only one and that is the replacement of the Cairo Bridge by KDOT.

Has anyone else seen the highway upgrade plan for this new port?

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/15e991_c35e6b07bd304704ace36bc8daffe608~mv2.png/v1/crop/x_152,y_109,w_1201,h_935/fill/w_440,h_343,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/15e991_c35e6b07bd304704ace36bc8daffe608~mv2.png)

https://www.alexandercairo.org/ (https://www.alexandercairo.org/)

What else is there to improve, road wise, in Cairo? Rt 51 is a 4 lane road thru town. The Mississippi River bridge wouldn't hurt, but that would require MoDOT cooperation, and the I-57 bridge also crosses the river not far upstream

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 22, 2022, 07:19:59 PM
What else is there to improve, road wise, in Cairo? Rt 51 is a 4 lane road thru town. The Mississippi River bridge wouldn't hurt, but that would require MoDOT cooperation, and the I-57 bridge also crosses the river not far upstream

The only thing I can come up with is that Cairo will become the Loves/TA/Pilot/FlyingJ/Bucees of the barge worker community with its central location.

This aggregation of barge workers will support a gaggle of Microtel/LaQuinta/Super8/Motel6 hotels to house barge pilots who are awaiting their return back orders.

That in turn will bring a casino and a few places to eat in fast/near fast realm.

All the rails in Cairo proper are still in place (most in weeds) thanks to the State of Illinois not allowing them to be abandoned.

The port will be on the west side of Cairo between Cedar Street and Levee Road, so really the only road improvements I can see is between US-51 and the new port for any heavy trucks to come in and out.

I just looked at the KyDOT road bridge preferred alternative for the new Cairo Bridge which will be just north of the current one, with a roundabout on the Illinois side.

So I would imagine, there will be a truck tie in just north of the roundabout. This would mean any trucks coming and going to Kentucky or Missouri wouldn't have to traverse the town.

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2022, 10:14:29 PM
All the rails in Cairo proper are still in place (most in weeds) thanks to the State of Illinois not allowing them to be abandoned.

Not entirely true; the at grade one near the northern floodgate (https://goo.gl/maps/hyr2mFN52RrNJhiXA) has been pulled up.

[edited to fix url typo]

Quote from: Revive 755 on October 22, 2022, 10:57:24 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2022, 10:14:29 PM
All the rails in Cairo proper are still in place (most in weeds) thanks to the State of Illinois not allowing them to be abandoned.

Not entirely true; the at grade one near the northern floodgate[url] has been pulled up.
(https://goo.gl/maps/hyr2mFN52RrNJhiXA)

If going by that GM view it would appear out of service, but they technically still are.

Actually Cairo is served 2 ways today by rail.

There is a CN yard at Future City north of Cairo. It mostly serves the Bunge grain terminal on the Cairo riverfront. That yard has a lead north of the tunnel and then come underneath into the city. That line is very active.

On the other side of the yard, CN built a wye to the former MoPac line from Thebes to service the remaining customers of MoPac and when the GM&O line was taken out north of town.

This led to a metals scrapper, a water plant and to a large yard/dock complex on the west side of Cairo. The rails to the scrapper on Commerce Street are still there.

There is a switch at 36th Street that allowed locals to back in to their customers not on the Bunge line.

Even though the streets have become pretty much dirt roads now, there are still active crossbucks at each crossing all the way to 17th Street until the rails end at 12th.

This particular route is currently choked with weeds, but the crossing you reference at US-51 is still technically "active". The signal box still has a meter and is connected to the utility.

But I would guess it hasn't had a delivery on it in 15 years. It appears CN pulls some cars down for storage periodically, but never cross the highway here.

Knowing railroads they would have dropped these sidings like a hot potato ages ago, but Illinois wants them kept around in anticipation of this new port.

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2022, 10:14:29 PM

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 22, 2022, 07:19:59 PM
What else is there to improve, road wise, in Cairo? Rt 51 is a 4 lane road thru town. The Mississippi River bridge wouldn't hurt, but that would require MoDOT cooperation, and the I-57 bridge also crosses the river not far upstream

The only thing I can come up with is that Cairo will become the Loves/TA/Pilot/FlyingJ/Bucees of the barge worker community with its central location.

This aggregation of barge workers will support a gaggle of Microtel/LaQuinta/Super8/Motel6 hotels to house barge pilots who are awaiting their return back orders.

That in turn will bring a casino and a few places to eat in fast/near fast realm.

All the rails in Cairo proper are still in place (most in weeds) thanks to the State of Illinois not allowing them to be abandoned.

The port will be on the west side of Cairo between Cedar Street and Levee Road, so really the only road improvements I can see is between US-51 and the new port for any heavy trucks to come in and out.

I just looked at the KyDOT road bridge preferred alternative for the new Cairo Bridge which will be just north of the current one, with a roundabout on the Illinois side.

So I would imagine, there will be a truck tie in just north of the roundabout. This would mean any trucks coming and going to Kentucky or Missouri wouldn't have to traverse the town.

If a barge port needs all that, Metropolis/Paducah ain't very far away.

Illinois isn't going to issue a 3rd Southern IL casino license, with Metropolis very close and Williamson County not that far away

Most likely would be a few smaller slot machine lounges

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2022, 11:52:25 PM
This particular route is currently choked with weeds, but the crossing you reference at US-51 is still technically "active". The signal box still has a meter and is connected to the utility.

I should have been clearer.  Last time I was through Cairo on US 51 this year (due to the road to Wickliffe being blocked) the cantilever signals for the US 51 grade crossing were completely gone - can't recall for sure how much of the track was left.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 22, 2022, 03:51:22 PM
Functional class has no relationship to whether or not the route is state-maintained.  Functional class just aims to describe the role of a roadway in the overall roadway network.

I suspected not.  However, in searching multiple roads in multiple counties, I was unable to identify a single road that (1) I know is state-maintained and (2) is marked 'Major Collector'.  That level of correlation, I though, was worth pointing out.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 22, 2022, 03:51:22 PM
Herrin Road has these mile markers that give away that it's an unmarked state highway, because these mile markers only appear on state-maintained roads in certain counties. Not all unmarked IDOT roads will have these mile markers, but all roads with these mile markers will be state-maintained roads (unless they are remnants from a past jurisdictional transfer).

https://goo.gl/maps/3Pf6abiKHw7wK2tm6

Fully aware of that.  I used to drive Herrin Road pretty much every day for a year and half.  I lived in Herrin, I drove a delivery truck all over southern Illinois and surrounding areas, and my dispatch was just east of Colp on Herrin Road.

As far as I can tell, there are no such signs on Cambria Road south of Herrin-Colp blacktop.  There are also 'END STATE MAINTENANCE' signs on the portion south of Herrin-Colp, whereas the portion north of there is inarguably FAS-907.  (Yes, I realize the state supposedly no longer refers to FAS numbers, but whatever.  Bids on FAS routes still include the number.)

Do you know of any resource to check for certain if that stretch of Cambria Road is a secondary state highway or not?

It shows right on the map that Cambria Road is a county highway.  It has a number in a square, so it has to be county-maintained.  No stretch of road in Illinois is maintained by both a county and the state DOT, so far as I know.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 24, 2022, 03:53:17 PM
It shows right on the map that Cambria Road is a county highway.  It has a number in a square, so it has to be county-maintained.  No stretch of road in Illinois is maintained by both a county and the state DOT, so far as I know.

Alternatively:  It shows right on the map that Cambria Road is an FA Secondary Route.  It has a number in an elongated circle.

Are there county FAS routes?  I wasn't aware of that.  I thought all FAS routes were state roads.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 24, 2022, 03:53:17 PM
No stretch of road in Illinois is maintained by both a county and the state DOT, so far as I know.

There are streets in Chicago that flip every few blocks from city, to county, to state jurisdiction or some combination of them. And some where the city limit splits the road, so technically a split jurisdiction. It wouldn't make sense for multiple entities to maintain the streets by piecework, so agreements are made. There are more maintenance agreements than streets around here, or so it seems sometimes.  OK, back to Downstate IL!

Quote from: Revive 755 on October 23, 2022, 11:10:12 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2022, 11:52:25 PM
This particular route is currently choked with weeds, but the crossing you reference at US-51 is still technically "active". The signal box still has a meter and is connected to the utility.

I should have been clearer.  Last time I was through Cairo on US 51 this year (due to the road to Wickliffe being blocked) the cantilever signals for the US 51 grade crossing were completely gone - can't recall for sure how much of the track was left.

No problem. The tracks still showed as active when I checked online. Probably hasn't caught up.

Quote from: kphoger on October 24, 2022, 04:01:30 PM

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 24, 2022, 03:53:17 PM
It shows right on the map that Cambria Road is a county highway.  It has a number in a square, so it has to be county-maintained.  No stretch of road in Illinois is maintained by both a county and the state DOT, so far as I know.

Alternatively:  It shows right on the map that Cambria Road is an FA Secondary Route.  It has a number in an elongated circle.

Are there county FAS routes?  I wasn't aware of that.  I thought all FAS routes were state roads.

The federal aid definitions of routes I think just relate to how they were funded in their original constructions, and they can be state, county, or municipal roads.  (Maybe township?)

Quote from: Rick Powell on October 24, 2022, 06:50:00 PM

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 24, 2022, 03:53:17 PM
No stretch of road in Illinois is maintained by both a county and the state DOT, so far as I know.

There are streets in Chicago that flip every few blocks from city, to county, to state jurisdiction or some combination of them. And some where the city limit splits the road, so technically a split jurisdiction. It wouldn't make sense for multiple entities to maintain the streets by piecework, so agreements are made. There are more maintenance agreements than streets around here, or so it seems sometimes.  OK, back to Downstate IL!

This is why I say "stretch of".  Sometimes the stretch is only a few lot widths, where the municipality has annexed just those few houses!

Drove Herrin Rd from I-57 to its Cambria Rd round-about terminus today. The "Begin State Maintenance"  sign is just west of Herrin Elementary School: https://maps.app.goo.gl/pjauzXKMuaWVzjke9?g_st=ic and yes this section has the standard IL state route county-named mile markers. On the east side of Herrin, "Begin State Maintenance"  is posted at the Herrin 5th St intersection with Herrin Rd: https://maps.app.goo.gl/r5DWNNMFMDkESbeD9?g_st=ic Heavily implies Herrin Rd is maintained by Herrin between those two points thru town

The state maintained section of Cambria Rd, between Herrin Rd and IL 149, does NOT have those mile markers, fwiw. But does have Begin/End State Maintenance sign just south of the Herrin Rd round-about

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 26, 2022, 09:47:47 PM
Drove Herrin Rd from I-57 to its Cambria Rd round-about terminus today. The "Begin State Maintenance"  sign is just west of Herrin Elementary School: https://maps.app.goo.gl/pjauzXKMuaWVzjke9?g_st=ic and yes this section has the standard IL state route county-named mile markers. On the east side of Herrin, "Begin State Maintenance"  is posted at the Herrin 5th St intersection with Herrin Rd: https://maps.app.goo.gl/r5DWNNMFMDkESbeD9?g_st=ic Heavily implies Herrin Rd is maintained by Herrin between those two points thru town

Both of locations are at the city limit line.  (I'm quite familiar with Herrin Road through there.  The big warehouse (https://goo.gl/maps/4Uyh6FPQRS2TDsiY7) immediately east of Herrin Elementary was my dispatch location, so I drove in and out of there every day for about 1½ years.

Quote from: ilpt4u on October 26, 2022, 09:47:47 PM
The state maintained section of Cambria Rd, between Herrin Rd and IL 149, does NOT have those mile markers, fwiw. But does have Begin/End State Maintenance sign just south of the Herrin Rd round-about

Yeah, I had been hunting current and historical GSV for mile markers along that stretch because I thought I remembered it having them.  I moved away in 2008 and GSV goes back to 2009, so it's probably just a false memory on my part.

Then again, other roads that I remember having those mile markers are turning up empty for me now...  (Kinlou Road between Kinmundy and Louisville stands out in my mind.)

So I've been traveling quite a bit back and forth between home and the Louisville area for work. To make my trips more interesting and because I absolutely loathe I-65, I've been turning what's normally a 4.5 hour trip down into a 9-10 hour trip collecting new counties and highway mileage in southern Illinois and western Kentucky. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32015.0

My last trip took me to Cairo for the first time and man, what a depressing place. I know that roads and bridges lessened the need for a port city, but it was still sad to see. I really hope that a solution can be found to make such an historic place viable again.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 14, 2022, 08:12:29 AM
So I've been traveling quite a bit back and forth between home and the Louisville area for work. To make my trips more interesting and because I absolutely loathe I-65, I've been turning what's normally a 4.5 hour trip down into a 9-10 hour trip collecting new counties and highway mileage in southern Illinois and western Kentucky. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32015.0

My last trip took me to Cairo for the first time and man, what a depressing place. I know that roads and bridges lessened the need for a port city, but it was still sad to see. I really hope that a solution can be found to make such an historic place viable again.

https://www.alexandercairo.org/ The Alexander-Cairo Port District is undergoing a $40M port renovation, so hopefully the added business it hopes to pick up will provide tangible benefits to the area.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 14, 2022, 08:12:29 AM
So I've been traveling quite a bit back and forth between home and the Louisville area for work. To make my trips more interesting and because I absolutely loathe I-65, I've been turning what's normally a 4.5 hour trip down into a 9-10 hour trip collecting new counties and highway mileage in southern Illinois and western Kentucky. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32015.0

My last trip took me to Cairo for the first time and man, what a depressing place. I know that roads and bridges lessened the need for a port city, but it was still sad to see. I really hope that a solution can be found to make such an historic place viable again.

is the one restaurant (Shemwell's) still open

Quote from: Alps on November 14, 2022, 05:39:11 PM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 14, 2022, 08:12:29 AM
So I've been traveling quite a bit back and forth between home and the Louisville area for work. To make my trips more interesting and because I absolutely loathe I-65, I've been turning what's normally a 4.5 hour trip down into a 9-10 hour trip collecting new counties and highway mileage in southern Illinois and western Kentucky. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32015.0

My last trip took me to Cairo for the first time and man, what a depressing place. I know that roads and bridges lessened the need for a port city, but it was still sad to see. I really hope that a solution can be found to make such an historic place viable again.

is the one restaurant (Shemwell's) still open

https://www.facebook.com/Shemwells-BBQ-Emily-Meyer-785230851648552/ (https://www.facebook.com/Shemwells-BBQ-Emily-Meyer-785230851648552/)

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 14, 2022, 09:50:44 AM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 14, 2022, 08:12:29 AM
So I've been traveling quite a bit back and forth between home and the Louisville area for work. To make my trips more interesting and because I absolutely loathe I-65, I've been turning what's normally a 4.5 hour trip down into a 9-10 hour trip collecting new counties and highway mileage in southern Illinois and western Kentucky. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32015.0

My last trip took me to Cairo for the first time and man, what a depressing place. I know that roads and bridges lessened the need for a port city, but it was still sad to see. I really hope that a solution can be found to make such an historic place viable again.

https://www.alexandercairo.org/ The Alexander-Cairo Port District is undergoing a $40M port renovation, so hopefully the added business it hopes to pick up will provide tangible benefits to the area.

I agree.  Illinois has pushed a lot of money into various historic districts, but for some reason has allowed the Cairo Historic District to fall down with very little left.

While building a port based logistics complex is unique and interesting, hopefully the new tax revenue will not be wasted and used to build something more sustainable.

Just as an example, but not the silver bullet, river cruising is growing in popularity. With a new port and a rebuilt historic district, Cairo would make a great port of call for future Mississippi River cruises.

Quote from: edwaleni on November 14, 2022, 10:03:13 PM

Quote from: Alps on November 14, 2022, 05:39:11 PM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 14, 2022, 08:12:29 AM
So I've been traveling quite a bit back and forth between home and the Louisville area for work. To make my trips more interesting and because I absolutely loathe I-65, I've been turning what's normally a 4.5 hour trip down into a 9-10 hour trip collecting new counties and highway mileage in southern Illinois and western Kentucky. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32015.0

My last trip took me to Cairo for the first time and man, what a depressing place. I know that roads and bridges lessened the need for a port city, but it was still sad to see. I really hope that a solution can be found to make such an historic place viable again.

is the one restaurant (Shemwell's) still open

https://www.facebook.com/Shemwells-BBQ-Emily-Meyer-785230851648552/ (https://www.facebook.com/Shemwells-BBQ-Emily-Meyer-785230851648552/)

A couple years ago, I did stop there at Shemwells. It was good. But yes Cairo is a depressing city. About 1/3 of the pop from its height is left.

Google maps just updated its satellite map. You can see the widening of 67 north of Monmouth from a few weeks ago. You can see one of the worst US highways turn into one of the best. I will try to get some ground pics.

Well more good news street view updated . It's a few weeks before the satellite. It's not a new interstate but still fun for roadgeeks.

Quote from: hobsini2 on November 19, 2022, 01:17:38 PM
But yes Cairo is a depressing city. About 1/3 of the pop from its height is left.

More like 10% are left. At its height in the 1920s, there were over 15,000. 2020 Census says 1,733.  The population decline also reminded me that Cairo was once an important passenger rail stop for the IC and GM&O railroads. The GM&O discontinued passenger service south of St Louis in 1958, while all the IC's mainline passenger trains stopped there up to Amtrak in 1971 when several trains were dropped. The remaining trains continued to stop there through the Amtrak era, but apparently there were so few passengers that Amtrak finally abandoned the stop in 1987.

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 21, 2022, 10:32:08 AM

Quote from: hobsini2 on November 19, 2022, 01:17:38 PM
But yes Cairo is a depressing city. About 1/3 of the pop from its height is left.

More like 10% are left. At its height in the 1920s, there were over 15,000. 2020 Census says 1,733.  The population decline also reminded me that Cairo was once an important passenger rail stop for the IC and GM&O railroads. The GM&O discontinued passenger service south of St Louis in 1958, while all the IC's mainline passenger trains stopped there up to Amtrak in 1971 when several trains were dropped. The remaining trains continued to stop there through the Amtrak era, but apparently there were so few passengers that Amtrak finally abandoned the stop in 1987.

At one time the Illinois Central bridge over the Ohio @ Cairo was "the bridge" for any north-south traffic between Chicago and the south. (from 1889-1917) Cairo had many hotels at one time, not only for the flatboaters and paddle wheelers and later barges, but for all of the travelers who had to wait for their train to cross the bridge. Because of this it was also a large transfer point of commerce to and from different railroads, and this required Cairo to have a large yard to accommodate it all and employees to manage it.

Due to congestion at Cairo, Illinois Central built the Edgewood Cutoff and bought a share of the new Metropolis Bridge in 1925 and started redirecting traffic.

The decline really started when passenger rail began its decline in the 1950's. Then GM&O merged with IC which removed a large amount of switched freight. As railroads began to merge and reorganize and abandon ROW, many of the flags that served and utilized Cairo began to disappear. All that is left is the original carrier (CN) which bought out the IC.

Quote from: 3467 on November 20, 2022, 07:29:47 PM
Google maps just updated its satellite map. You can see the widening of 67 north of Monmouth from a few weeks ago. You can see one of the worst US highways turn into one of the best. I will try to get some ground pics.

I don't see it. Mine just shows a traffic backup at Henderson Creek north of Monmouth.

I agree that 2 lane was a mess and dangerous.

It's from the North junction of 135 south about 5 miles. The remaining 6 starts next Spring. They are behind right now but as you point out that was a dangerously substandard stretch of road and they had to completely dig down and replace some sections.

Quote from: 3467 on November 21, 2022, 08:13:28 PM
It's from the North junction of 135 south about 5 miles. The remaining 6 starts next Spring. They are behind right now but as you point out that was a dangerously substandard stretch of road and they had to completely dig down and replace some sections.

Thanks, I found it.

Adding extended shoulders, sealing the cracks and then a fresh new layer of asphalt.

The base was already 30+ years old and not being replaced, so essentially this is a 10-12 year stop gap until more US-67 funding can be had.

Guaranteed the rip-rap will start cracking back through by 2030.

But its definitely an improvement over what was there before!

It's strange you see the cracks sealed. But after they cold milled the road.And they appear to be putting at least one extra layer on.
They are doing the same South of Monmouth . The original 4 lane there has lasted since 1992.

Quote from: 3467 on November 23, 2022, 09:09:55 AM
It's strange you see the cracks sealed. But after they cold milled the road.And they appear to be putting at least one extra layer on.
They are doing the same South of Monmouth . The original 4 lane there has lasted since 1992.

I didn't see it in the pictures, typically after the joints are replaced and the rebar fixed and the concrete is poured over them, they perform a cold mill and prior to actual paving they put down a polymer (usually called "liquid road") based sealer that spreads and looks like asphalt, but due to its increased liquidity and ability to drop down into cracks, it provides a moisture wall.  This maybe the "extra" layer you see.

My issue is that while the polymer layer is effective, the old base is still subject to movement from traffic. The vibration and load isn't pushed out throughout the original pour segment, it is much smaller. Eventually the movement will rise upward, break the polymer and move up to the surface asphalt which is way more pliable than the original concrete.

I remember IDOT did something similar on I-55 where clearly there was a construction defect on a section built in the 1970's where the contractor did not work the rebar correctly. Over and over and over each pour segment had the same form of crack appear. Finally when they came through to repave it, they did the same thing, milled it, sealed it and put a new asphalt layer.  Sure enough, about 5 or 6 years later, I could see that same crack starting to appear on the surface. The movement around that crack was already starting to push its way up to the top.  Shortly after IDOT did a tar seal on the sections where the crack was worse. I haven't driven it lately to see if they finally replaced the whole thing, or simply did one of those scrape and replace jobs.

Concrete highways are very expensive, but they last a long time. Asphalt is just not as durable, but it is significantly much cheaper to apply. So what to do, once every 30-40 years? Or mill and resurface every 12-15 years?

I have had several discussions with road engineers about the choices made between cost, budgets and time extensions to highways. It's seems to always be on the agenda at engineering conferences.

Perhaps @Rick Powell can weigh in here as he did this at IDOT and is a consultant now.

Quote from: edwaleni on November 23, 2022, 11:25:35 PM
Perhaps @Rick Powell can weigh in here as he did this at IDOT and is a consultant now.

The choice between asphalt and concrete for reconstruction or new construction at IDOT comes down to a life cycle cost analysis using current material prices and estimated maintenance cycles. Heavy truck traffic and heavy overall traffic will usually tilt the analysis more toward concrete. If both options are reasonably close, it goes to a committee who will discuss the pros and cons and make a choice. Constructability factors are sometimes a consideration in the close calls.

I-255 is continuing to loose the brown color theme.  The eastbound arch for the JB Bridge is now a some sort of silver-gray color.

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 31, 2022, 10:49:43 PM
I-255 is continuing to loose the brown color theme.  The eastbound arch for the JB Bridge is now a some sort of silver-gray color.

I think the JB Bridge may be MoDOT maintained. That said, I wasn't upset with the lighting replacement about 10 years ago, the steel light poles were looking a bit rough. That said, hoping they do keep the gantries and overpasses as brown, as this does create a unique look.

Quote from: ChiMilNet on January 01, 2023, 01:23:54 PM

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 31, 2022, 10:49:43 PM
I-255 is continuing to loose the brown color theme.  The eastbound arch for the JB Bridge is now a some sort of silver-gray color.

I think the JB Bridge may be MoDOT maintained. That said, I wasn't upset with the lighting replacement about 10 years ago, the steel light poles were looking a bit rough. That said, hoping they do keep the gantries and overpasses as brown, as this does create a unique look.

MoDOT maintains them and they are registered under Missouri in the Federal Bridge Register.

It was a MoDOT inspector who found the 6 inch crack in one of the arch cross beams a few years ago.

Quote from: edwaleni on January 01, 2023, 09:27:38 PM

Quote from: ChiMilNet on January 01, 2023, 01:23:54 PM

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 31, 2022, 10:49:43 PM
I-255 is continuing to loose the brown color theme.  The eastbound arch for the JB Bridge is now a some sort of silver-gray color.

I think the JB Bridge may be MoDOT maintained. That said, I wasn't upset with the lighting replacement about 10 years ago, the steel light poles were looking a bit rough. That said, hoping they do keep the gantries and overpasses as brown, as this does create a unique look.

MoDOT maintains them and they are registered under Missouri in the Federal Bridge Register.

It was a MoDOT inspector who found the 6 inch crack in one of the arch cross beams a few years ago.

Thanks for confirming. If memory serves me correctly, I believe that IDOT does maintain quite a few of the bridges in the area, including JFK, McKinley, Chain of Rocks, and the Alton Bridge, correct?

Quote from: ChiMilNet on January 02, 2023, 11:49:26 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on January 01, 2023, 09:27:38 PM

Quote from: ChiMilNet on January 01, 2023, 01:23:54 PM

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 31, 2022, 10:49:43 PM
I-255 is continuing to loose the brown color theme.  The eastbound arch for the JB Bridge is now a some sort of silver-gray color.

I think the JB Bridge may be MoDOT maintained. That said, I wasn't upset with the lighting replacement about 10 years ago, the steel light poles were looking a bit rough. That said, hoping they do keep the gantries and overpasses as brown, as this does create a unique look.

MoDOT maintains them and they are registered under Missouri in the Federal Bridge Register.

It was a MoDOT inspector who found the 6 inch crack in one of the arch cross beams a few years ago.

Thanks for confirming. If memory serves me correctly, I believe that IDOT does maintain quite a few of the bridges in the area, including JFK, McKinley, Chain of Rocks, and the Alton Bridge, correct?

I think you meant the "MLK" not the JFK. It's a mix that has been updated through the years via inter-governmental agreements. IDOT was the primary for the Musial/Veterans but Missouri paid a share. 

Bridges like the McKinley have had a tortured history. Originally owned by the city of Venice, Illinois, it was run as a toll bridge (like the old Chain of Rocks was) and got wrapped up in corruption and decline. IDOT tried to give the city a grant to fix the bridge but couldn't because the city was so far behind in paying their state taxes.

The City of St Louis didn't have such restrictions and foreclosed on it and both them and Illinois cut a deal to take it over. It's a joint deal today.

There used to be a series of municipally owned toll bridges crossing the Mississippi River at one time and before the Federal Highway Act in 1956, these bridges made a killing in toll collection for people who either traveled or worked in St Louis but lived in Illinois. After the Poplar Street Bridge opened (I-70/I-64) and the new Chain of Rocks Bridge (I-270) in the early 1970's, these bridges started to decline. Just before their decline started, they became targets of political corruption due to the amount of local revenue they generated above the cost of the bonds. By the time these cities realized they had a bond based anchor on their finances, it was too late to sell them or re-finance them. When the tolls declined, they had to use local sales taxes to keep up the bond payments. Venice hung on until foreclosure. Madison filed suit several times to delay until the bond holders were bought out.

Quote from: edwaleni on January 02, 2023, 07:45:13 PM
Bridges like the McKinley have had a tortured history. Originally owned by the city of Venice, Illinois, it was run as a toll bridge (like the old Chain of Rocks was) and got wrapped up in corruption and decline. IDOT tried to give the city a grant to fix the bridge but couldn't because the city was so far behind in paying their state taxes.

The City of St Louis didn't have such restrictions and foreclosed on it and both them and Illinois cut a deal to take it over. It's a joint deal today.

There used to be a series of municipally owned toll bridges crossing the Mississippi River at one time and before the Federal Highway Act in 1956, these bridges made a killing in toll collection for people who either traveled or worked in St Louis but lived in Illinois. After the Poplar Street Bridge opened (I-70/I-64) and the new Chain of Rocks Bridge (I-270) in the early 1970's, these bridges started to decline. Just before their decline started, they became targets of political corruption due to the amount of local revenue they generated above the cost of the bonds. By the time these cities realized they had a bond based anchor on their finances, it was too late to sell them or re-finance them. When the tolls declined, they had to use local sales taxes to keep up the bond payments. Venice hung on until foreclosure. Madison filed suit several times to delay until the bond holders were bought out.

I remember the old McKinley Bridge. Crossing it back circa 1990 was downright scary. There were literal holes in the bridge deck where if you got out of the car you could look through and see the river. I never crossed it again until after Venice lost control of the bridge and it was repaired.

Quote from: skluth on January 03, 2023, 12:05:56 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on January 02, 2023, 07:45:13 PM
Bridges like the McKinley have had a tortured history. Originally owned by the city of Venice, Illinois, it was run as a toll bridge (like the old Chain of Rocks was) and got wrapped up in corruption and decline. IDOT tried to give the city a grant to fix the bridge but couldn't because the city was so far behind in paying their state taxes.

The City of St Louis didn't have such restrictions and foreclosed on it and both them and Illinois cut a deal to take it over. It's a joint deal today.

There used to be a series of municipally owned toll bridges crossing the Mississippi River at one time and before the Federal Highway Act in 1956, these bridges made a killing in toll collection for people who either traveled or worked in St Louis but lived in Illinois. After the Poplar Street Bridge opened (I-70/I-64) and the new Chain of Rocks Bridge (I-270) in the early 1970's, these bridges started to decline. Just before their decline started, they became targets of political corruption due to the amount of local revenue they generated above the cost of the bonds. By the time these cities realized they had a bond based anchor on their finances, it was too late to sell them or re-finance them. When the tolls declined, they had to use local sales taxes to keep up the bond payments. Venice hung on until foreclosure. Madison filed suit several times to delay until the bond holders were bought out.

I remember the old McKinley Bridge. Crossing it back circa 1990 was downright scary. There were literal holes in the bridge deck where if you got out of the car you could look through and see the river. I never crossed it again until after Venice lost control of the bridge and it was repaired.

The last train to use the McKinley was in 2002. Since it also supported rail at the time, it was the line that allowed newsprint to be delivered to the St Louis Globe Democrat via the Tucker Street Viaduct. The Tucker Street Viaduct was at one time an underground train station for the Illinois Terminal, and there was a small freight yard in there as well. When the Musial/Veterans Bridge was built, MoDOT and the City of St Louis reconfigured Tucker Street and filled in the entrance. But if you take an elevator downstairs in the Globe Building, you can see where the old train station used to be. It's just a dark cave with supporting steel beams now.

The line between the McKinley and the viaduct was spun off to the trails system. You can still see the electric rail catenary poles right up to the bridge on the Missouri side.

Hard to believe that several thousand commuters crossed that bridge daily in railcars or the Granite City railbuses.

Since the road shared the bridge with the railroad, a traffic light and a flasher would come on to stop cars so the trains could pass through.

If you want to see a VHS quality video of the last train over the bridge, it can be found on YouTube.

Quote from: edwaleni on January 03, 2023, 06:22:32 PM
The last train to use the McKinley was in 2002. Since it also supported rail at the time, it was the line that allowed newsprint to be delivered to the St Louis Globe Democrat via the Tucker Street Viaduct.

I think it was earlier than 2002.  Bridgehunter has rail service being discontinued across the McKinley in 1977, and Google Earth's imagery for 2002 makes it appear the tracks were blocked from the main spans of the McKinley Bridge.  The viaduct that crosses I-70 in Missouri is separate from the McKinley Bridge.

Quote from: Revive 755 on January 03, 2023, 10:01:10 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on January 03, 2023, 06:22:32 PM
The last train to use the McKinley was in 2002. Since it also supported rail at the time, it was the line that allowed newsprint to be delivered to the St Louis Globe Democrat via the Tucker Street Viaduct.

I think it was earlier than 2002.  Bridgehunter has rail service being discontinued across the McKinley in 1977, and Google Earth's imagery for 2002 makes it appear the tracks were blocked from the main spans of the McKinley Bridge.  The viaduct that crosses I-70 in Missouri is separate from the McKinley Bridge.

You are correct. IDOT closed the bridge to all traffic in 1994. I must have been thinking when IDOT finally got title to it.

RSSM formally abandoned their rail rights in 2005.

QuoteOn January 12, 2005, Railroad Switching Service of Missouri, Inc. (RSSM), a Class III rail carrier, filed with the Surface Transportation Board a petition under 49 U.S.C. 10502 for exemption from the provisions of 49 U.S.C. 10903 to abandon its entire line of railroad extending from a point of connection with Norfolk Southern Railway Company (NS) at or near Broad Street (milepost 0) to terminus at the publishing facility of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (milepost 1.89), a distance of 1.89 miles, in St. Louis, St. Louis County, MO. The line traverses United States Postal Service Zip Code 63101 and includes the station of St. Louis.

The line does not contain federally granted rights-of-way. Any documentation in RSSM's possession will be made available promptly to those requesting it.

An update on the I-57/I-74 interchange replacement project in Champaign: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/roadwork/due-date-for-i-57-i-74-overhaul-2025/article_ec54f82e-b54d-5ee9-80e7-8f3f7789ea20.html

Quote from: SGwithADD on January 06, 2023, 05:32:14 PM
An update on the I-57/I-74 interchange replacement project in Champaign: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/roadwork/due-date-for-i-57-i-74-overhaul-2025/article_ec54f82e-b54d-5ee9-80e7-8f3f7789ea20.html

Quote from: article
The current clover leaf construction project involves constructing two Chicago-style flyover ramps to improve safety and traffic flow efficiency for travelers: eastbound I-74 to northbound I-57 and westbound I-74 to southbound I-57. The work involves most of the bridges and embankments.

Is Chicago-style the Illinois term for turbine ramp?

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:11:39 AM

Quote from: SGwithADD on January 06, 2023, 05:32:14 PM
An update on the I-57/I-74 interchange replacement project in Champaign: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/roadwork/due-date-for-i-57-i-74-overhaul-2025/article_ec54f82e-b54d-5ee9-80e7-8f3f7789ea20.html

Quote from: article
The current clover leaf construction project involves constructing two Chicago-style flyover ramps to improve safety and traffic flow efficiency for travelers: eastbound I-74 to northbound I-57 and westbound I-74 to southbound I-57. The work involves most of the bridges and embankments.

Is Chicago-style the Illinois term for turbine ramp?

Considering where most of the are in Illinois, yes.

I'd like to know how IDOT determined those two ramps but not NB 57->WB 74, but oh well

Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2023, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:11:39 AM

Quote from: SGwithADD on January 06, 2023, 05:32:14 PM
An update on the I-57/I-74 interchange replacement project in Champaign: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/roadwork/due-date-for-i-57-i-74-overhaul-2025/article_ec54f82e-b54d-5ee9-80e7-8f3f7789ea20.html

Quote from: article
The current clover leaf construction project involves constructing two Chicago-style flyover ramps to improve safety and traffic flow efficiency for travelers: eastbound I-74 to northbound I-57 and westbound I-74 to southbound I-57. The work involves most of the bridges and embankments.

Is Chicago-style the Illinois term for turbine ramp?

Considering where most of the are in Illinois, yes.

I'd like to know how IDOT determined those two ramps but not NB 57->WB 74, but oh well

The ones I expected were 74 WB to 57 SB and 57 SB to 74 EB.

Quote from: hobsini2 on January 07, 2023, 01:31:49 PM

Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2023, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:11:39 AM

Quote from: SGwithADD on January 06, 2023, 05:32:14 PM
An update on the I-57/I-74 interchange replacement project in Champaign: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/roadwork/due-date-for-i-57-i-74-overhaul-2025/article_ec54f82e-b54d-5ee9-80e7-8f3f7789ea20.html

Quote from: article
The current clover leaf construction project involves constructing two Chicago-style flyover ramps to improve safety and traffic flow efficiency for travelers: eastbound I-74 to northbound I-57 and westbound I-74 to southbound I-57. The work involves most of the bridges and embankments.

Is Chicago-style the Illinois term for turbine ramp?

Considering where most of the are in Illinois, yes.

I’d like to know how IDOT determined those two ramps but not NB 57->WB 74, but oh well

The ones I expected were 74 WB to 57 SB and 57 SB to 74 EB.

They counted traffic and the highest flow was from 74 WB to 57 SB. Largely flow from the big shopping district on the north side of Champaign out to the subdivisions in Southwest Champaign. A lot of local traffic uses this route.

I have been seeing the State Police photo enforced radar ticket van quite a bit recently in the construction zone. About every two or three weeks it is sitting there in the morning watching NB 57 traffic. I no longer drive that way to work because I don't know how accurate that thing is, even though i set my cruise to 43 there are other vehicles flying by and who knows if they just snap a picture and send tickets to every vehicle in the photo claiming they are all going the speed the fast one is. It's often there around 8am on Fridays. Don't really drive 74 much so can't say if they station it there too but I've yet to see in on the Southbound side. We had a fatal accident northbound in the zone a few months back where someone didn't bother to slow down and shortly after I began seeing this van.

Speaking of Champaign, is anyone familiar with how ridiculously narrow Prospect Avenue is between Bradley and Kirby? I have a Sentra and it seems to just barely fit in the lane, how can a Tractor Trailer safely use this road? If they are not going to widen it due to wrecking too much property they ought to just turn it into a 3 lane road with one wide lane in each direction and a middle lane for turning. It would be a lot less harrowing. When was this built? It just doesn't seem up to modern road dimensions.

I'm planning a long road trip vacation in the spring that will take me through downstate Illinois.  In the course of the planning I've found a puzzle that I can't quite solve.  I think it's probably something mind-numbingly obvious, but can someone here please tell me what I'm missing? 

I may be going straight south across the length of the state, right down the middle, entering from Wisconsin and exiting on I-24 towards Kentucky.  In the middle, at Bloomington-Normal, I-39 ends and I need to choose between either continuing due south on US-51 or veering southeast along I-74 until it connects to I-57 and I start moving southwest, until it finally straightens out and goes due south again. 

Google maps and other mapping programs advise I use I-74 and I-57, but that routing sends me about 35-40 miles eastward off the straight-south-line that would be US 51, and then of course I'd head back almost that far again to the point where they get within 8 miles of each other around Odin, IL. 

The programs say that taking the interstates only 17 miles longer than using US 51 (and a bit of 50) would be, and given they're interstates and US 51 is 2-lane for about half that section, that's the better way to go.  That seems like far too little, distance-wise, to me.  What am I missing? 

Quote from: invincor on January 09, 2023, 11:30:38 AM
I'm planning a long road trip vacation in the spring that will take me through downstate Illinois.  In the course of the planning I've found a puzzle that I can't quite solve.  I think it's probably something mind-numbingly obvious, but can someone here please tell me what I'm missing? 

I may be going straight south across the length of the state, right down the middle, entering from Wisconsin and exiting on I-24 towards Kentucky.  In the middle, at Bloomington-Normal, I-39 ends and I need to choose between either continuing due south on US-51 or veering southeast along I-74 until it connects to I-57 and I start moving southwest, until it finally straightens out and goes due south again. 

Google maps and other mapping programs advise I use I-74 and I-57, but that routing sends me about 35-40 miles eastward off the straight-south-line that would be US 51, and then of course I'd head back almost that far again to the point where they get within 8 miles of each other around Odin, IL. 

The programs say that taking the interstates only 17 miles longer than using US 51 (and a bit of 50) would be, and given they're interstates and US 51 is 2-lane for about half that section, that's the better way to go.  That seems like far too little, distance-wise, to me.  What am I missing? 

It's been awhile since I went the whole length, but there are stoplights in Bloomington, Clinton, Forsythe (a bunch of them just before you get to I-72), Pana, Vandalia and a 4-way stop in Sandoval, and even in the 4-lane sections there are a lot of reduced speed zones going through all the little towns, Vandalia by itself will probably slow you down 5 minutes or more from what you could do on an interstate at 70 mph. There is enough truck and agricultural traffic that it may slow you down in the 2-lane sections where you are unable to pass.

Quote from: invincor on January 09, 2023, 11:30:38 AM
I'm planning a long road trip vacation in the spring that will take me through downstate Illinois.  In the course of the planning I've found a puzzle that I can't quite solve.  I think it's probably something mind-numbingly obvious, but can someone here please tell me what I'm missing? 

I may be going straight south across the length of the state, right down the middle, entering from Wisconsin and exiting on I-24 towards Kentucky.  In the middle, at Bloomington-Normal, I-39 ends and I need to choose between either continuing due south on US-51 or veering southeast along I-74 until it connects to I-57 and I start moving southwest, until it finally straightens out and goes due south again. 

Google maps and other mapping programs advise I use I-74 and I-57, but that routing sends me about 35-40 miles eastward off the straight-south-line that would be US 51, and then of course I'd head back almost that far again to the point where they get within 8 miles of each other around Odin, IL. 

The programs say that taking the interstates only 17 miles longer than using US 51 (and a bit of 50) would be, and given they're interstates and US 51 is 2-lane for about half that section, that's the better way to go.  That seems like far too little, distance-wise, to me.  What am I missing?

Living near Carbondale, I prefer to use US 51 up to Bloomington if I'm headed toward Rockford or Madison (or I really, really want some Spotted Cow and I can buy in Beloit  :colorful:)

If I lived right on the 57 corridor between Marion and Mt Vernon, I-57 is faster. It is arguable if you live on the 51 corridor. I live a bit further west on the IL 127 corridor. Google's 3 suggested routes for me include the 57/74 combo, 51 the whole way, and using 127 to get to I-55 and then north

If you are continuing down 24 towards Paducah and Nashville TN, 74->57 is going to be your fastest route. 51 is more fun to drive, imho. 57 between Kankakee and Mt Vernon is a boring slog. And until the 6-laning project is done between Mt Vernon and Marion/I-24, 57 is a truck-heavy slog on the current 4-lane segments

Quote from: Rick Powell on January 09, 2023, 11:41:09 AM

Quote from: invincor on January 09, 2023, 11:30:38 AM
I'm planning a long road trip vacation in the spring that will take me through downstate Illinois.  In the course of the planning I've found a puzzle that I can't quite solve.  I think it's probably something mind-numbingly obvious, but can someone here please tell me what I'm missing? 

I may be going straight south across the length of the state, right down the middle, entering from Wisconsin and exiting on I-24 towards Kentucky.  In the middle, at Bloomington-Normal, I-39 ends and I need to choose between either continuing due south on US-51 or veering southeast along I-74 until it connects to I-57 and I start moving southwest, until it finally straightens out and goes due south again. 

Google maps and other mapping programs advise I use I-74 and I-57, but that routing sends me about 35-40 miles eastward off the straight-south-line that would be US 51, and then of course I'd head back almost that far again to the point where they get within 8 miles of each other around Odin, IL. 

The programs say that taking the interstates only 17 miles longer than using US 51 (and a bit of 50) would be, and given they're interstates and US 51 is 2-lane for about half that section, that's the better way to go.  That seems like far too little, distance-wise, to me.  What am I missing? 

It's been awhile since I went the whole length, but there are stoplights in Bloomington, Clinton, Forsythe (a bunch of them just before you get to I-72), Pana, Vandalia and a 4-way stop in Sandoval, and even in the 4-lane sections there are a lot of reduced speed zones going through all the little towns, Vandalia by itself will probably slow you down 5 minutes or more from what you could do on an interstate at 70 mph. There is enough truck and agricultural traffic that it may slow you down in the 2-lane sections where you are unable to pass.

I've had no issues with any of this when I drove 51.

Quote from: invincor on January 09, 2023, 11:30:38 AM
I'm planning a long road trip vacation in the spring that will take me through downstate Illinois.  In the course of the planning I've found a puzzle that I can't quite solve.  I think it's probably something mind-numbingly obvious, but can someone here please tell me what I'm missing? 

I may be going straight south across the length of the state, right down the middle, entering from Wisconsin and exiting on I-24 towards Kentucky.  In the middle, at Bloomington-Normal, I-39 ends and I need to choose between either continuing due south on US-51 or veering southeast along I-74 until it connects to I-57 and I start moving southwest, until it finally straightens out and goes due south again. 

Google maps and other mapping programs advise I use I-74 and I-57, but that routing sends me about 35-40 miles eastward off the straight-south-line that would be US 51, and then of course I'd head back almost that far again to the point where they get within 8 miles of each other around Odin, IL. 

The programs say that taking the interstates only 17 miles longer than using US 51 (and a bit of 50) would be, and given they're interstates and US 51 is 2-lane for about half that section, that's the better way to go.  That seems like far too little, distance-wise, to me.  What am I missing? 

I have driven that route about a dozen times, and I-39 to I-74 to I-57 is generally the fastest in my experience.

Thanks for all the replies so far, everyone.

It's well out of your way but Cave-In-Rock has a free car ferry (https://www.wsiltv.com/news/cave-in-rock-ferry-funded-for-another-two-years-after-new-contract-agreement/article_1cf06b2a-f8c1-11ec-b022-97005f02e717.html) across the Ohio River. But if you're visiting Garden of the Gods (https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/shawnee/recarea/?recid=10685) or one of the other Shawnee National Forest attractions, it's worth the trip.

Quote from: skluth on January 09, 2023, 05:31:47 PM
It's well out of your way but Cave-In-Rock has a free car ferry (https://www.wsiltv.com/news/cave-in-rock-ferry-funded-for-another-two-years-after-new-contract-agreement/article_1cf06b2a-f8c1-11ec-b022-97005f02e717.html) across the Ohio River. But if you're visiting Garden of the Gods (https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/shawnee/recarea/?recid=10685) or one of the other Shawnee National Forest attractions, it's worth the trip.

I once did IL Rt 1 all the way to Cave in the Rock and took the ferry over to Kentucky. The took Ky 91 into Marion and US 641 South to Eddyville to join up with I-24.It was worth it. Fredonia KY is "interesting" for a tiny town. Coppertop BBQ is really good.

A more immediate piece of news along I-57 between Marion and I-24 late this coming weekend:

Quote from: The Southern Illinoisan
Drivers on Interstate 57 will be facing a detour next weekend as the Illinois Department of Transportation will close a portion of the highway to demolish a bridge south of Marion.

The interstate will be closed to all traffic between the 45 mile marker (Illinois Route 148 exit) and the 54 mile marker (Illinois Route 13 exit) beginning at 7 p.m., Sunday, Jan. 15. The highway will remain closed overnight and is anticipated to reopen at 7 a.m., Monday, Jan. 16.

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/interstate-57-will-be-closed-at-the-beginning-of-next-week/article_c96d8c34-81c1-5725-9d73-e0117b19a4bb.html

Quote from: Rick Powell on January 09, 2023, 11:41:09 AM
It's been awhile since I went the whole length, but there are stoplights in Bloomington, Clinton, Forsythe (a bunch of them just before you get to I-72), Pana, Vandalia and a 4-way stop in Sandoval, and even in the 4-lane sections there are a lot of reduced speed zones going through all the little towns, Vandalia by itself will probably slow you down 5 minutes or more from what you could do on an interstate at 70 mph. There is enough truck and agricultural traffic that it may slow you down in the 2-lane sections where you are unable to pass.

Pana certainly seems to eat a lot of time every time I go through there on US 51.  Some of the reduced speed zones also get annoying on 51 - there's the 45 mph section through Wapella (https://goo.gl/maps/BwXB4jwhdAwQt4sKA), then there's a really annoying and long 45 mph section around Clinton (https://goo.gl/maps/mkAL4aMuFRRHQNQy6).

Quote from: Revive 755 on January 09, 2023, 10:09:52 PM
Pana certainly seems to eat a lot of time every time I go through there on US 51.  Some of the reduced speed zones also get annoying on 51 - there's the 45 mph section through Wapella (https://goo.gl/maps/BwXB4jwhdAwQt4sKA), then there's a really annoying and long 45 mph section around Clinton (https://goo.gl/maps/mkAL4aMuFRRHQNQy6).

Google Maps actually routes you on county roads that bypass Pana to the east and south. Heading SB, continue on N 2600 East instead of turning right/west and following 51 into Pana, then turn right/west on either E 100 North or E 000 North, to meet back up with 51 south of Pana

Not high quality county roads, but plenty serviceable

Quote from: ilpt4u on January 09, 2023, 10:22:07 PM

Quote from: Revive 755 on January 09, 2023, 10:09:52 PM
Pana certainly seems to eat a lot of time every time I go through there on US 51.  Some of the reduced speed zones also get annoying on 51 - there's the 45 mph section through Wapella (https://goo.gl/maps/BwXB4jwhdAwQt4sKA), then there's a really annoying and long 45 mph section around Clinton (https://goo.gl/maps/mkAL4aMuFRRHQNQy6).

Google Maps actually routes you on county roads that bypass Pana to the east and south. Heading SB, continue on N 2600 East instead of turning right/west and following 51 into Pana, then turn right/west on either E 100 North or E 000 North, to meet back up with 51 south of Pana

Not high quality county roads, but plenty serviceable

This is exactly what I did when I came down from Decatur. (Took the Pana Bypass using the country roads) Even though I still had to go west to Woburn, Illinois, I took Fayette CR-1 west at Ramsey to Fillmore then turned south. It was faster than going all the way down to Vandalia.

Fayette CR-1 is a fairly new road with updated geometry.

Quote from: captkirk_4 on January 07, 2023, 06:42:37 PM
Speaking of Champaign, is anyone familiar with how ridiculously narrow Prospect Avenue is between Bradley and Kirby? I have a Sentra and it seems to just barely fit in the lane, how can a Tractor Trailer safely use this road? If they are not going to widen it due to wrecking too much property they ought to just turn it into a 3 lane road with one wide lane in each direction and a middle lane for turning. It would be a lot less harrowing. When was this built? It just doesn't seem up to modern road dimensions.

There are plans to widen Prospect Ave (at least the portion designated as US 150). IDOT has $18.5 million set aside: https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Transportation-System/Fact-Sheets/Rebuild-Illinois/RBI_CU.pdf

That said, it's unclear whether the whole street will be widened, or only key intersections: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/idot-claims-proposal-to-widen-prospect-would-target-only-major-intersections/article_d15b1f6d-ae85-5b56-af60-599ff13637a2.html

Quote from: SGwithADD on January 31, 2023, 09:51:15 PM

Quote from: captkirk_4 on January 07, 2023, 06:42:37 PM
Speaking of Champaign, is anyone familiar with how ridiculously narrow Prospect Avenue is between Bradley and Kirby? I have a Sentra and it seems to just barely fit in the lane, how can a Tractor Trailer safely use this road? If they are not going to widen it due to wrecking too much property they ought to just turn it into a 3 lane road with one wide lane in each direction and a middle lane for turning. It would be a lot less harrowing. When was this built? It just doesn't seem up to modern road dimensions.

There are plans to widen Prospect Ave (at least the portion designated as US 150). IDOT has $18.5 million set aside: https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Transportation-System/Fact-Sheets/Rebuild-Illinois/RBI_CU.pdf

That said, it's unclear whether the whole street will be widened, or only key intersections: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/idot-claims-proposal-to-widen-prospect-would-target-only-major-intersections/article_d15b1f6d-ae85-5b56-af60-599ff13637a2.html

Seems like a road diet might be a better solution for that stretch.

Quote from: captkirk_4 on January 07, 2023, 06:42:37 PM
Speaking of Champaign, is anyone familiar with how ridiculously narrow Prospect Avenue is between Bradley and Kirby? I have a Sentra and it seems to just barely fit in the lane, how can a Tractor Trailer safely use this road? If they are not going to widen it due to wrecking too much property they ought to just turn it into a 3 lane road with one wide lane in each direction and a middle lane for turning. It would be a lot less harrowing. When was this built? It just doesn't seem up to modern road dimensions.

I concur just based on the Street View imagery. Those narrow portions are 40 feet wide, or 4 10-foot lanes. They could replace it with a 3-lane arrangement (2 11' lanes with a center 12' TWLTL, and 2 3' bicycle lanes in the same footprint, and it wouldn't probably end up LESS congested than it is now. Widening it to any degree that would do anything for traffic would eat up what little remaining front lawn the homes have.

This will make storm chasing a bit more challenging for myself. Lacon IL bridge is closing for repairs this year
https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/ (https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/)

Quote from: ET21 on February 02, 2023, 12:41:01 PM
This will make storm chasing a bit more challenging for myself. Lacon IL bridge is closing for repairs this year
https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/ (https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/)

At least Route 18 is not that far north to utilize. Come to think of it, in my storm chasing, I have always used Route 18 vs Route 17.

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 18, 2023, 11:41:17 AM

Quote from: ET21 on February 02, 2023, 12:41:01 PM
This will make storm chasing a bit more challenging for myself. Lacon IL bridge is closing for repairs this year
https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/ (https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/)

At least Route 18 is not that far north to utilize. Come to think of it, in my storm chasing, I have always used Route 18 vs Route 17.

That's a big gap in bridges, between Henry and Peoria.  Now I REALLY wish there was an Illinois River bridge at Chillicothe.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 18, 2023, 06:50:02 PM

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 18, 2023, 11:41:17 AM

Quote from: ET21 on February 02, 2023, 12:41:01 PM
This will make storm chasing a bit more challenging for myself. Lacon IL bridge is closing for repairs this year
https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/ (https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/top-stories/route-17-bridge-in-lacon-closing-for-nearly-8-months-for-repairs/)

At least Route 18 is not that far north to utilize. Come to think of it, in my storm chasing, I have always used Route 18 vs Route 17.

That's a big gap in bridges, between Henry and Peoria.  Now I REALLY wish there was an Illinois River bridge at Chillicothe.

As noted elsewhere, IDOT cancelled the East Peoria Bypass which included a bridge about 2 years ago.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52697441561_f5cf58bc10_c.jpg)

"Completion of the ring road with I-474 and IL 6 remained a regional priority as of 2015," with the city of Peoria having "passed a resolution supporting Corridor P2."

In 2021, the Federal Highway Administration issued a notice stating it would not prepare an EIS on the Eastern Bypass.

The notice added, "IDOT has no plans to continue the project study and no further activities will occur in its development."

That marked the end of the meandering, multiyear effort to construct the controversial ring road.

Kensil A. Garnett, Region 3 engineer with the Illinois Department of Transportation, said recently the Eastern Bypass is no longer on IDOT's radar and did not score well in an analysis of statewide expansion projects.

"This project would have to be driven politically and was not part of the capital bill discussions during the (fiscal year) 2020 programming cycle," he added.

So much for the IL 6 freeway stub ever connecting with anything else.

They are going to 4 lane and replace the RR bridge North of Chillicothe . He thinks that will pass muster.
The beltway was a district 4 obsession for a long time. Before they finally took the page down it seemed most of the public thought a 2 lane bridge connector would be a good idea. The volume estimates were really low for freeway. Only 10000 .I think less on the outer connections.
Ed where is the quote from ?
336 is dead too. 24 will be 4 lanes to 9 . Interesting that was the original corridor.9 last Canton is 1000 a day so I think that's it for Peoria Macomb.

The Route 1 trip reminds me that was an original freeway corridor. I would argue that was built as an expressway in Indiana.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
So much for the IL 6 freeway stub ever connecting with anything else.

Route 6 should have connected to I-180 even if it is just a 4 lane parkway.

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 19, 2023, 05:31:00 PM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
So much for the IL 6 freeway stub ever connecting with anything else.

Route 6 should have connected to I-180 even if it is just a 4 lane parkway.

That would have been nice to have

Quote from: 3467 on February 19, 2023, 12:15:34 PM
Ed where is the quote from ?

From the Peoria newspaper when it was announced. Sorry, I forgot to post the link with it.

Quote from: ET21 on February 19, 2023, 06:58:13 PM

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 19, 2023, 05:31:00 PM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
So much for the IL 6 freeway stub ever connecting with anything else.

Route 6 should have connected to I-180 even if it is just a 4 lane parkway.

That would have been nice to have

Prior to the last activities on the Eastern Bypass study, IDOT also completed a "Peoria to Chicago" highway study that selected an IL 6- I-180 4-lane connector, but it looks to be dormant with no further work programmed.

Kensil Garnett told me 29 is alive at least from Chillicothe to maybe the county line . It will be 4 lanes and a new RR bridge. They are going to run it through the program .
Not clear how far they intend to run it. Minor correction Peoria Chicago really concluded that 74 and 55 did the job. There was a later study on 29 that's pretty dormant. This is separate because there was originally a 6 extension North of Chillicothe.

Both 336 and 29 are still on featured projects. But Kensil also told be it's going to be 24 not 336 and Peoria County would like to use the corridor protection area. .
I think the bypass is still there but the link is dead. 51 and 50:are gone too.

I do want to add the Pans Bypass I is not dead. They are running that through the tool
So are parts of the connector and 67.

Where is Pans? Did you mean Pana?

Pana. Yes. Autocorrect.

Quote from: 3467 on February 20, 2023, 06:44:36 PM
I do want to add the Pans Bypass I is not dead. They are running that through the tool
So are parts of the connector and 67.

I don't think the Pana Bypass will take. It had clear negative feedback from the community.

Perhaps a Super 2 from the county line south of Assumption to Coal Creek south of Pana. Otherwise I just don't think it has the needed truck traffic to justify it on safety grounds.

I am getting worried about the US-50 Lebanon Bypass. It was in the STIP and it was funded, but there is no project page, no status updates.

Probably have to email the Region 5 District 8 office and see whats up.

It is missing from the IDOT planned and project page.

https://idot.illinois.gov/transportation-system/transportation-management/featured-projects/index (https://idot.illinois.gov/transportation-system/transportation-management/featured-projects/index)

Quote from: 3467 on February 20, 2023, 06:42:57 PM
Kensil Garnett told me 29 is alive at least from Chillicothe to maybe the county line . It will be 4 lanes and a new RR bridge. They are going to run it through the program .
Not clear how far they intend to run it. Minor correction Peoria Chicago really concluded that 74 and 55 did the job. There was a later study on 29 that's pretty dormant. This is separate because there was originally a 6 extension North of Chillicothe.

I call the 29 study "Peoria to Chicago"  because they looked at various freeway/expressway routes near IL 116, US 24, and a combo IL 29 to IL 71, as well as the IL 29 route, and settled on IL 29. I am not aware of any other "Peoria to Chicago"  Highway studies that preceded it other than the unsuccessful "Kerner Curve"  proposal to bend I-55 towards Peoria in the 60s.

There was an earlier "Kansas City to Chicago"  proposal for a private toll road which alignment would skirt Peoria, that was studied but could not identify a big enough market to justify it. https://www.lib.niu.edu/1989/ii891216.html

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 19, 2023, 05:31:00 PM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
So much for the IL 6 freeway stub ever connecting with anything else.

Route 6 should have connected to I-180 even if it is just a 4 lane parkway.

That trip seems just about as far as the existing way on 74 and 55. Plus I-80 is absolutely loaded with traffic so it wouldn't really relieve any traffic. Illinois is a dying state so I don't really see the need for a new expressway to Peoria. As they said before, if they can't build just a couple miles of a two lane bypass around the south end of Pana, they aren't going to build a new expressway to Peoria down 29 that doesn't save any millage.

There was another Study between the 2 after that there was the 29 EIS and if not on IDOT it's on EPA . If you look at it it tries to avoid Peoria Chicago because it saves no miles over 74 55 . It's because the feasibility study was so bad.
The best savings on miles was A 3 A combo of 24 and 116. And it saves 8.7 miles.
The 29 study did a really good roadkill study though.
I wouldn't worry about Lebanon bypass they are really slow with their web page. They just added 34 and 97.
On Pana we will see if they run it through the tool again.
The only reason 29 was ever done was Ray LaHood and he is to say the least ..gone.

It was the Heart of Illinois Highway Feasibility Study September 1995
Ch2m hill.
I found a 1976 Chicago KC Study. I have never found early 70s corridor studies for any of these segments.
Then there was the one above.
There were 2 EIS Inn the 90s for the Macomb Quincy study . The Final dated 1997 . The Peoria study above . Then Illinois 29 in 2009. Then 336 Peoria Macomb Inn The 2010s

Where we stand now. 24 will be 4 lane to 9 336 is soon to be gone losing corridor protection.
29 will be 4 lane at least a few miles north of Chillicothe. That is not what was in the 2009 . That was a 6 extension. This must get past the tool.
The Eastern Bypass is dead it was in the 1995 study too.

Quote from: 3467 on February 22, 2023, 10:38:46 AM
It was the Heart of Illinois Highway Feasibility Study September 1995
Ch2m hill.
I found a 1976 Chicago KC Study. I have never found early 70s corridor studies for any of these segments.
Then there was the one above.
There were 2 EIS Inn the 90s for the Macomb Quincy study . The Final dated 1997 . The Peoria study above . Then Illinois 29 in 2009. Then 336 Peoria Macomb Inn The 2010s

Where we stand now. 24 will be 4 lane to 9 336 is soon to be gone losing corridor protection. 29 will be 4 lane at least a few miles north of Chillicothe. That is not what was in the 2009 . That was a 6 extension. This must get past the tool.
The Eastern Bypass is dead it was in the 1995 study too.

Hopefully 336 will be decommissioned once Macomb-Peoria is officially dead, since 336 is and will continue to be completely redundant with 110

Quote from: 3467 on February 22, 2023, 10:38:46 AM
It was the Heart of Illinois Highway Feasibility Study September 1995
Ch2m hill.

Bob Blasius, retired of IDOT once told me, "a feasibility study is what you do when you don't want to build something." Although there were feasibility studies that did lead to something, occasionally.

Agree. The feasibility study for 67 between Alton and Jacksonville was really a corridor study . That is happening slowly but still going.

US 20 recommended an expressway the EIS freeway and the current plan is building a passing lane to Stockton. That finishes the Jo Davies 3lane begun Inn the 90s.
BTW Anyone know anything else about 20.

I agree totally Inn the 336 redundancy.

Quote from: 3467 on February 22, 2023, 07:39:34 PM
Agree. The feasibility study for 67 between Alton and Jacksonville was really a corridor study . That is happening slowly but still going.

US 20 recommended an expressway the EIS freeway and the current plan is building a passing lane to Stockton. That finishes the Jo Davies 3lane begun Inn the 90s.
BTW Anyone know anything else about 20.

I agree totally Inn the 336 redundancy.

While US 20 from Freeport to Dubuque is dubious in safe travels, I would rather that IDOT and ISTHA finish the US 20 portion of the EOH between Lake Street to IL-59. IDOT owns 85% of the needed ROW and its been studied up and down and all around for many years. Put the toll start just east of IL-59. Let IDOT finish the parts between IL-59 and the US 20 Bypass.

I checked on the US 50 Lebanon Bypass, the MYP for IDOT shows it won't start until 2024 and is funded at around $43 million. It will be a 2 lane from Summerfield to IL-4 with a bridge over the CSX tracks. I thought the funding window started in 2023 hence my concern., Seems we have another year to go.

The Tollway is just going to add long ramps to County Farm Road . That's it.

I think I will bring up my recent discovery of the secret multilane roads of the seventies.

Quote from: 3467 on February 22, 2023, 11:01:44 PM
The Tollway is just going to add long ramps to County Farm Road . That's it.

I think I will bring up my recent discovery of the secret multilane roads of the seventies.

Somewhere on AARoads, may years ago I posted a 4 lane plan by Illinois from around 1962. Most of the unbuilt ones from that report are the US-51 "Spine Line" south of Decatur to Cairo, the IL-1 from Crete to Cairo and the Quad Cities to East St Louis route (now US-67). It also showed a 4 lane from Carbondale to the Metro East, today known as a SW Connector.  Boy weren't they ambitious back then on road building? 60 years later we are still working on it.

1962 That's Interesting. The first Supplemental Freeway system came out in 1965.
I would argue the route 1Freeway was built...I'm Indiana. Parts of 41 are literally within a 5 mile corridor of 1

I know there was an early 1950s toll way plan too. It was posted here once and would love to find it. It sounded a lot like the 1962 plan. Could it have been a 1952 one?

Quote from: 3467 on February 23, 2023, 10:51:49 AM
1962 That's Interesting. The first Supplemental Freeway system came out in 1965.
I would argue the route 1Freeway was built...I'm Indiana. Parts of 41 are literally within a 5 mile corridor of 1

I know there was an early 1950s toll way plan too. It was posted here once and would love to find it. It sounded a lot like the 1962 plan. Could it have been a 1952 one?

Yes, I agree IL-1 would nearly duplicate US-41 in Indiana. I think it was mostly thought of as a way to get Danville connected to the north. Danville used to have a large steel industry at one time.

But that hasn't stopped states with "competing" for highway usage over state line.

Kansas and Missouri still compete for traffic south of KCMO. Missouri got I-49 built. Kansas is still upgrading their side due to the influx of traffic from Texas.

Right again. That doesn't apply here neither are busy. And of only 2 documents . One mentioned the corridor as connecting Indiana cities. The EPA pointed out well Indiana is making 41 4 lanes. There was never another Study outside Chicago where it was airport related
Well a correction It is 4 lane to Texas city from 57 which serves Southern Illinois cities . That study said North of there traffic was low.
However much of the route has had through town in improvements and is 3 r standard. That means 3 ft. Paved shoulders and good curves and visibility.
There are about 200 miles of 2 lane left on the road but I will go with Ed and say corridor was done.
I will go over the other corridors
Next Illinois 29 was not an original and it was part of the whole 180 mess. It's got a number of sections they could stripe to 3 lanes and the 4 lane stretch . You can see them near Sparland . From the 84 to 88 program . It's mostly a big shoulder a never striped passing lane.

This is what I found in a file at IDOT years ago, from the 70s. Posted courtesy of Midwest Roads site. The US 51 corridor from Rockford to Decatur, the Fox Valley Freeway, and the I-180 to Peoria and Peoria-Quincy corridors were the priorities at that time; with only the US 51 substantially built, and the 336 corridor completed from Macomb to Quincy. Other non-priority corridors (I-72, US 34, US 67) did get some attention later on.
http://www.midwestroads.com/illinois/il%20supp%20fwy.pdf

Quote from: Rick Powell on February 23, 2023, 04:20:13 PM
This is what I found in a file at IDOT years ago, from the 70s. Posted courtesy of Midwest Roads site. The US 51 corridor from Rockford to Decatur, the Fox Valley Freeway, and the I-180 to Peoria and Peoria-Quincy corridors were the priorities at that time; with only the US 51 substantially built, and the 336 corridor completed from Macomb to Quincy. Other non-priority corridors (I-72, US 34, US 67) did get some attention later on.
http://www.midwestroads.com/illinois/il%20supp%20fwy.pdf

Interesting on the Fox Valley Freeway,

I actually attended a public hearing on it in West Chicago, Illinois. This was back when real IDOT employees attended public hearings and not the PR consultants they stick out there now.

I didn't doubt its utility, but it was just too late to the game and had no northern route past I-90. It would have become the I-170 of the Chicago western suburbs. I was of the mindset at the time that any IL-59 relief was going to have to come west of the Fox River because of local opposition to expand IL-59 any further. IDOT just waited too long and when you have school districts using IL-59 as a primary route for school bus stops, then you have literally "missed the bus" (ha ha).

IDOT's wondering what to do with the Joe Page Bridge that carries IL-16 and IL-100 across the Illinois River at Hardin since it's structurally deficient and becoming difficult to maintain.

https://wlds.com/joe-page-bridge-study-moving-forward-public-input-being-sought/

Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Here is where to look, year by year. https://apps1.dot.illinois.gov/HistoricalMapViewer/
US 45 actually moved twice, it originally followed what is now IL 115, then where 115 breaks west, it continued south to around Chebanse. When the eastern Kankakee bypass (now I-57) was built in the 50s, US 45 was re-routed directly south to what is now the south interchange of 45/52 in Kankakee and then ran down the future alignment of I-57 just east of the IC Railroad. Then in the late 60s when I-57 was completed, it was taken off the 57 alignment and then went directly south from the interchange, sharing an alignment with US 52 and (former) US 54, where its alignment is today.

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

The actual bypass of Chebanse and Clifton was built in 1951 and 1952 as a 2 lane highway.

The Chebanse to Clifton 4 lane section of I-57 was completed first south of Kankakee in 1969. But it was signed US-45 and US 54.

If you look south of Clifton, you can see the remains where the "new" US-45 swings east of the old US-45 going into town. When the new route came back north of Clifton, it ran on top of the old (pre-1951) at Oak Street.

Where I-57 bridges over the old US-45 and the CN railroad south of Clifton is also where reception of Chicago FM stations ends. (yes, I have driven this route a lot) At least the ones that use the former Sears Tower to broadcast from.

In 1970, when the section of I-57 from Clifton to US-54 (Onarga-Gibson City exit) was complete, US-45 was redirected at Ashkum on the former IL-116 where it meets US-52 from the east and IL-49 from the south. 

IL-116 now ends at Ashkum. US-54 was demoted to IL-54 from Onarga to Springfield IL. It was removed in Kankakee completely and demoted to IL-50 from Kankakee to Chicago.

FWIW: US-54 still exists in Illinois, but only from Louisiana, MO until its intersection with I-72 south of Griggsville. There isn't even a "END" sign, just a sign that says IL-107.

If you go back even further, US-45 and US-54 used to cross the then Illinois Central tracks north of Chebanse (County 7000S) and follow County 2000W to what is now IL-115. It entered Kankakee west of the tracks on Jeffrey Street.

The remains of that crossing can be seen from I-57. When the bypass of Clifton and Chebanse was done in 1951, they didn't build a bridge over the IC tracks and left that dog leg in place.

In late 1953 and early 1954, they built a new ROW for US-45 and US-54 from Chebanse to a meet with US-52 where I-57 crosses US-52 today.

The dog leg crossing and old route to Kankakee remained as an unmarked state highway and finally delegated to the county in 1962. 

The dog leg crossing was formally removed when the 4 lane was built in 1969.

Quote from: 3467 on February 23, 2023, 12:22:49 PM
Next Illinois 29 was not an original and it was part of the whole 180 mess. It's got a number of sections they could stripe to 3 lanes and the 4 lane stretch . You can see them near Sparland . From the 84 to 88 program . It's mostly a big shoulder a never striped passing lane.

It's for school buses. There are a number of rural stops in that stretch.

Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Quote from: Rick Powell on April 30, 2023, 11:21:07 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Thanks for both posts. One of these days I'd like to clinch a few US Routes, US 45 is one of them.

Quote from: Rick Powell on April 30, 2023, 11:21:07 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Yes, I remember I-57 for the Kankakee Bypass as an oddity.  The ramps were weird and it was built with an urban design. My dad said that the bypass was proposed by Illinois in 1948 before the interstate system came along, but the actual construction didnt happen until 1953. If you look at the date marks on the KBS railroad bridge it is stamped "1953". Anyway, the way IDOT designed the bypass originally, the "new route" was to send all of US-45 traffic through that bypass by starting it between Ashkum and Clifton. That is why you can see the remnants of the bypass starting that far south.  Most people don't know but that bypass used to start/end at IL-50 north of Kankakee. Then when I-57 came along, they simply ran right on top of it.

The ramps at IL-50 have been completely redone and modernized.

The ramps at Court Street (IL-17) are still in their original 1953 style (including the support structure for the bridge) and I remember the last time IDOT tried to do something with them, the neighborhood howled. One study tried to close the exit completely for safety reasons, but people on the eastside complained. Kankakee tried to develop East Court after the bypass opened and there was for years a KMart, McDonalds, apartments, gas stations, but only the McDonalds remains. The apartments were converted to Section 8 housing.

IDOT has their hands tied becuase they didn't buy enough land back in the late 40's - early 50's and a cemetery constrains them on the west side of the highway. To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

On a side note, that K-Mart property is being redeveloped into a Ricky Rockets (https://www.daily-journal.com/news/local/full-steam-ahead-as-ricky-rockets-structure-rises/article_d9a2ef18-9772-11ed-9cf0-bb6fd1da1dfe.html).

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 01, 2023, 12:11:43 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

On a side note, that K-Mart property is being redeveloped into a Ricky Rockets (https://www.daily-journal.com/news/local/full-steam-ahead-as-ricky-rockets-structure-rises/article_d9a2ef18-9772-11ed-9cf0-bb6fd1da1dfe.html).

Too funny....a Bucees clone next to a 6000sq ft pot dispensary.

The last thing East Court needs is a pot dispensary.

The last time I stopped at the Mickey D's on East Court it was just a little subpar.

Looks like that exit will be around a lot longer, but the merge lanes for those circle ramps are much too short. The trucks will go up to the IL-50 exit instead I am afraid.

The Illinois Notes thread shows that IDOT is going to spend $95 million into a total redesign and construction at East Court.

Should be an interesting design.

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 09:46:50 PM
The Illinois Notes thread shows that IDOT is going to spend $95 million into a total redesign and construction at East Court.
Should be an interesting design.

It's a single point urban interchange (SPUI), freeway over the crossroad, and it requires a little eastern shift in the mainline, but the ramps etc. will fit without any demolition of nearby buildings (except a few backyard sheds along the west side of I-57) or incursion into the cemetery except for a small temporary easement to put in a trail along the south side of IL 17. I know the guy who designed it, working with him on another project in western IL now.

Take a look here to see the project study materials.
https://idot.illinois.gov/projects/i57-interchange-at-il17

Quote from: Rick Powell on May 01, 2023, 11:11:05 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 09:46:50 PM
The Illinois Notes thread shows that IDOT is going to spend $95 million into a total redesign and construction at East Court.
Should be an interesting design.

It's a single point urban interchange (SPUI), freeway over the crossroad, and it requires a little eastern shift in the mainline, but the ramps etc. will fit without any demolition of nearby buildings (except a few backyard sheds along the west side of I-57) or incursion into the cemetery except for a small temporary easement to put in a trail along the south side of IL 17. I know the guy who designed it, working with him on another project in western IL now.

Take a look here to see the project study materials.
https://idot.illinois.gov/projects/i57-interchange-at-il17

Thanks, I took a look, interesting layout for the confined space.

I did find an error in the presentation. The railroad north of the work area is listed as "CSX Railroad". It's really the Norfolk Southern. It's what was known as the "Kankakee Belt" as it used to allow the New York Central to reach Hennepin, Illinois  and the CB&Q at Ladd, Illinois (and a Gypsum Mine in Dupue with CRI&P) without going through Chicago (hence the belt name). Still goes to Hennepin but the bridge over the Illinois River was removed to reach Ladd. It went to Conrail and then to NS after they split in two.

IDOT's new Professional Transportation Bulletin came out with an interesting project; apparently they are looking to plan for the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge at Cairo's eventual closure, and considering not replacing it, relying on the upstream I-57 crossing to serve the traffic that is currently using the 60/62 bridge.

To quote, "Phase I engineering services are required to prepare a Combined Design Report and Environmental Assessment (EA) for the US 60/62 Bridge End-of-Life Plan and bridge removal. We desire to develop a plan to determine what steps would be required to permanently close the bridge as well as what additional work and funds would be required to keep it in operation in the interim period."

Quote from: Rick Powell on May 05, 2023, 12:49:02 PM
IDOT's new Professional Transportation Bulletin came out with an interesting project; apparently they are looking to plan for the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge at Cairo's eventual closure, and considering not replacing it, relying on the upstream I-57 crossing to serve the traffic that is currently using the 60/62 bridge.

To quote, "Phase I engineering services are required to prepare a Combined Design Report and Environmental Assessment (EA) for the US 60/62 Bridge End-of-Life Plan and bridge removal. We desire to develop a plan to determine what steps would be required to permanently close the bridge as well as what additional work and funds would be required to keep it in operation in the interim period."

Based upon the number of people most likely served by that bridge, I can see why they are considering not replacing it.  It's not an extreme distance.  Cairo is certainly not the destination that it used to be to the area.  There were most likely over 10,000 residents in Cairo when the bridge was built; the population is now about 1600.

That is an interesting development.

The reason the 2 bridges were built was to eliminate a 3 way ferry that had stops at Cairo, Wickliffe and where the old US-62 ended at the Mississippi River (now CR-205).

If memory serves that ferry sunk approaching Cairo and an outcry went out thereafter to have the bridges built. Of course the economic conditions of the area have changed dramatically since that ferry sunk in 1917 or 1918. (I believe).

All things considered it would get Illinois out of the local bridge business and probably increase auto traffic through downtown Cairo.

If people in Missouri complain, Illinois could tell them to build their own bridge to Wickliffe from Wilson City and connect it to US-51 or something farther south.

There are also entries in the current PTB for studying possible replacement of the Centennial Bridge at Quad Cities and Phase 2 plans for 6-laning Sixth Street in Springfield from I-55 northward to Stanford Avenue.

Quote from: Rick Powell on May 05, 2023, 12:49:02 PM
IDOT's new Professional Transportation Bulletin came out with an interesting project; apparently they are looking to plan for the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge at Cairo's eventual closure, and considering not replacing it, relying on the upstream I-57 crossing to serve the traffic that is currently using the 60/62 bridge.

To quote, "Phase I engineering services are required to prepare a Combined Design Report and Environmental Assessment (EA) for the US 60/62 Bridge End-of-Life Plan and bridge removal. We desire to develop a plan to determine what steps would be required to permanently close the bridge as well as what additional work and funds would be required to keep it in operation in the interim period."

So if they do this, would US60 and US62 be routed onto I-57 and then follow US51 through Cairo? I guess it would be a win-win for both MO and IL because it's one less major river bridge they have to maintain.

Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2023, 09:42:13 AM
So if they do this, would US60 and US62 be routed onto I-57 and then follow US51 through Cairo? I guess it would be a win-win for both MO and IL because it's one less major river bridge they have to maintain.

That would be the most sensible reroute. The other possibility would be one or both down to the Hickman Ferry, but that seems much less likely and much further out of the way

Quote from: ilpt4u on May 08, 2023, 02:00:14 PM

Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2023, 09:42:13 AM
So if they do this, would US60 and US62 be routed onto I-57 and then follow US51 through Cairo? I guess it would be a win-win for both MO and IL because it's one less major river bridge they have to maintain.

That would be the most sensible reroute. The other possibility would be one or both down to the Hickman Ferry, but that seems much less likely and much further out of the way

The Phillips 66 station just south of that bridge probably goes out of business.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 08, 2023, 02:18:39 PM

Quote from: ilpt4u on May 08, 2023, 02:00:14 PM

Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2023, 09:42:13 AM
So if they do this, would US60 and US62 be routed onto I-57 and then follow US51 through Cairo? I guess it would be a win-win for both MO and IL because it's one less major river bridge they have to maintain.

That would be the most sensible reroute. The other possibility would be one or both down to the Hickman Ferry, but that seems much less likely and much further out of the way

The Phillips 66 station just south of that bridge probably goes out of business.

Yes. They make a killing due to high fuel and sin taxes in Illinois. They all come over to fill up, smoke up and drink up.

A Wikipedia article said most of the supplemental freeway system was not built. I decided to do the math for the downstate segments
Part of Interstate Highway system 498.17
Freeway 77
4 lane expressway 433.6
Other 187
2lane 391
1586.77
I did each by corridor.

Other . I included routes that kept 4 lane ROW mostly US 50. I included routes that have or will have wide shoulders for slow moving ...farm equipment.
Also not many 2lane segments have been improved with the 3 foot shoulders.

It's hard to get an exact number because corridors sometimes changed a lot like the 39 corridor. I left out Chicago area. It had about 500 miles in the various plans of the early sixties .

I did include the Route 1corridor even though someone from IDOT  said it was sure nice of Indiana to build that. Except for the state line issue 41 is definitely in that corridor and the EPA said that in the early 70s corridor study.

The SW Connector is still alive and would be one of the corridors to develop, but it is not being planned as a Freeway between Murphysboro and Columbia, but it is very much alive

Yes it is. I credited at least the Murpheysboro to Pickneyville  segment as expressway . Kirk Brown is running several options through the software to get something. He is doing the same with 67 . So I counted those Inn the expressway category.

Because the volumes are low and the studies are stale 67 north of that is in problem Dist 6 is going to start with wife shoulders . I put those in the other. Shoulders and passing lanes do not have to go through the Data Dependent tool.

Quote from: 3467 on May 28, 2023, 05:01:04 PM
A Wikipedia article said most of the supplemental freeway system was not built. I decided to do the math for the downstate segments
Part of Interstate Highway system 498.17
Freeway 77
4 lane expressway 433.6
Other 187
2lane 391
1586.77
I did each by corridor.

So you are basically saying that, downstate, about 75% of the original Supplemental Freeway network got some type of improvement beyond "doing nothing"? And more than 63% got 4 lanes either as an expressway, non-interstate freeway or interstate?

Illinois had lots of crazy plans for freeways pre-Arab Oil Embargo. I remember driving up IL 26 from Freeport to Monroe in the late 80's and seeing an old, rusty sign marking it as a future freeway corridor. There is nowhere near the traffic to justify making it four lanes. I remember the seeing similar signs along IL 29 between Peoria and Springfield when my family vacationed there in the late 60s. I don't put too much stock in old plans that criss-crossed many states with freeways when everyone was thinking like Robert Moses and it was easy to placate the voters with a vague promise of a future freeway. I think Wisconsin's expressway network is a better concept (even if there are some questionable gaps like US 10 east of Point), building rural four lane highways with some freeway segments and interchanges with the potential of being a freeway in the future. It seems like Illinois did upgrade most of its designated future freeways with something better, just in a more haphazard fashion.

Yes it's even higher if you consider US41 part of the Eastern Corridor.

I found out what those old freeway signs were in old annual reports. It started in the 40s  and it meant IDOT was going to control access to those roads. That is don't add a driveway without our permission. Now they do that with all their routes is my understanding.

I did leave out the corridor North of Peoria because it was only added after the 180 circus and I used the short direct corridor for US 30.
That number will go down because they seem to be committed to at least shoulders and more passing lanes to 20 30 and 67 . I also did assume eventual completions of 67 south of Jacksonville and 127 south of Pickneyville.This are based on the DDT and the commitment of the District Engineer to put   it though until he gets it.
Otherwise I assume no further work.

Quote from: skluth on May 29, 2023, 12:24:36 PM
Illinois had lots of crazy plans for freeways pre-Arab Oil Embargo. I remember driving up IL 26 from Freeport to Monroe in the late 80's and seeing an old, rusty sign marking it as a future freeway corridor. There is nowhere near the traffic to justify making it four lanes. I remember the seeing similar signs along IL 29 between Peoria and Springfield when my family vacationed there in the late 60s. I don't put too much stock in old plans that criss-crossed many states with freeways when everyone was thinking like Robert Moses and it was easy to placate the voters with a vague promise of a future freeway. I think Wisconsin's expressway network is a better concept (even if there are some questionable gaps like US 10 east of Point), building rural four lane highways with some freeway segments and interchanges with the potential of being a freeway in the future. It seems like Illinois did upgrade most of its designated future freeways with something better, just in a more haphazard fashion.

Freeway = DOT controls who can build out access to said road (ie: driveways)
Expressway = A controlled access road that expressly skips intersections with low volume roads. (county roads)

A freeway does not have to be 4 lanes but can be. Access can be controlled via signal or ramp
An expressway has no signalling and uses ramps or other low speeds access and merge methods to reach the highway. Can be 2 lane or 4 lane.

Freeways are not tolled, hence "free" way, But expressways can be tolled.

Youre Freeport to Monroe example simply means IDOT was controlling who and what driveways or roads could connect to the route in that section.

I don't think it was related to IL 26 north of Freeport. But the original 39 corridor was along IL 2 IL 26 IL 89 and IL 121 to Decatur. The Peoria Lincoln segment became I 155 though Illinois tried for 37 . Perhaps a tribute to the original corridor. That corridor was included in the 70s corridor study.
On route 1 I ended it at 17 to keep it downstate and because there is only a 2 mile difference to the Ryan junction and it's shorter to the tri state.
IL 130 to 57 was a corridor considered . It's about the same distance from where it crosses 64.

From Danville US 41 adds 8 miles. From Lawerence Ville it's about 7. .That overstates it because the freeway would have hugged the border and probably knocked that number down a couple of miles.

An example for Rick Powell.IL 1old FAP 411 corridor. The existing 1is close in length about 281 miles
51 4 lane . Mostly from 57 to 141 the Danville 4 lane undivided and the IL 17 back to 57.
Other he is almost all 3 lane or wide enough to be 3or more through town lanes . That is 15 miles.
If I counted upgrades 2 lane with 3 ft. Shoulders paved and lack of curves et. It looks about 109 miles have been though 3 r at some time.
These are the criteria I used in all the corridors .
I did not include 3 r in the 2 lane except just now on 1.

Quote from: skluth on May 29, 2023, 12:24:36 PM
Illinois had lots of crazy plans for freeways pre-Arab Oil Embargo. I remember driving up IL 26 from Freeport to Monroe in the late 80's and seeing an old, rusty sign marking it as a future freeway corridor. There is nowhere near the traffic to justify making it four lanes. I remember the seeing similar signs along IL 29 between Peoria and Springfield when my family vacationed there in the late 60s. I don't put too much stock in old plans that criss-crossed many states with freeways when everyone was thinking like Robert Moses and it was easy to placate the voters with a vague promise of a future freeway. I think Wisconsin's expressway network is a better concept (even if there are some questionable gaps like US 10 east of Point), building rural four lane highways with some freeway segments and interchanges with the potential of being a freeway in the future. It seems like Illinois did upgrade most of its designated future freeways with something better, just in a more haphazard fashion.

Could the IL-29 corridor have been an early thought for what became I-155 just a few miles away?  That started in the early 70s and was completed in the early 90s.

According to the EIS 121 155 predates the first freeway map of 1965.
72 and 39 show up on the large Interregional  highway map.
Parts of US 20 and US 50 do too. The 50 Corridor was the 64 corridor and switched in 1961 . But IDOT  kept working on some sort of improved road ..and still is with the Lebanon bypass.

Quote from: 3467 on May 29, 2023, 03:21:40 PM
IL 130 to 57 was a corridor considered . It's about the same distance from where it crosses 64.

Are you talking about Grayville to Effingham via IL-33 @ Newton to reach I-57?

Becuase IL-130 is very much a secondary from Newton to Urbana and used to end in downtown Urbana until IDOT connected it to I-74 in the early 80's.

Yes. Though that corridor is different from their western corridor . Their started at Norris city and ended at Olney. . That was the limit of this study . The only one of 2 I ever found on the 1corridor. The other was the Danville bypass.

Quote from: 3467 on May 30, 2023, 10:26:38 AM
Yes. Though that corridor is different from their western corridor . Their started at Norris city and ended at Olney. . That was the limit of this study . The only one of 2 I ever found on the 1corridor. The other was the Danville bypass.

Gotcha.

At one time IDOT wanted to run a south bypass of Effingham using Wabash Ave. and then connect it to US-40 with a bridge over the then Penn Central tracks at Henrietta Street.. They were going to route all of the IL-33 traffic over to I-57/I-70 using US-40 to get the trucks out of downtown. City fathers didn't like that. Instead Effingham got that worthless Fayette Ave.exit so people would actually have to drive through downtown along with the Banker Street overpass. The Keller Family made sure the IL-33/I-57/I-70 exit got all of its desired development with the truck stop, the hotel (I think they named it the Keller Convention Center) and its first McDonalds.

I remember when that happened, everyone asked, "why does a city that small need 3 full service exits?" Now I think they are over 12k.

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM

Quote from: Rick Powell on April 30, 2023, 11:21:07 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Yes, I remember I-57 for the Kankakee Bypass as an oddity.  The ramps were weird and it was built with an urban design. My dad said that the bypass was proposed by Illinois in 1948 before the interstate system came along, but the actual construction didnt happen until 1953. If you look at the date marks on the KBS railroad bridge it is stamped "1953". Anyway, the way IDOT designed the bypass originally, the "new route" was to send all of US-45 traffic through that bypass by starting it between Ashkum and Clifton. That is why you can see the remnants of the bypass starting that far south.  Most people don't know but that bypass used to start/end at IL-50 north of Kankakee. Then when I-57 came along, they simply ran right on top of it.

The ramps at IL-50 have been completely redone and modernized.

The ramps at Court Street (IL-17) are still in their original 1953 style (including the support structure for the bridge) and I remember the last time IDOT tried to do something with them, the neighborhood howled. One study tried to close the exit completely for safety reasons, but people on the eastside complained. Kankakee tried to develop East Court after the bypass opened and there was for years a KMart, McDonalds, apartments, gas stations, but only the McDonalds remains. The apartments were converted to Section 8 housing.

IDOT has their hands tied becuase they didn't buy enough land back in the late 40's - early 50's and a cemetery constrains them on the west side of the highway. To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

That big tall Orange Skyscraper apartments at the IL 17 exit is the section 8? I saw that entire building listed on a google pop up ad as being up for auction starting at $100,000 so it must be in terrible condition. That whole stretch of 57 is now being widened to interstate standards. Only the railroad bridge still hasn't been touched and is quite narrow but the street crossing a thousand feet to the south is being redone much wider. There is also some strange brick railroad tower standing about a mile south of Kankakee along 57. My mom always fixates on it because she said there were lots of them like that when she was a kid in the 40s.

Quote from: captkirk_4 on July 26, 2023, 01:42:50 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM

Quote from: Rick Powell on April 30, 2023, 11:21:07 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?

Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Yes, I remember I-57 for the Kankakee Bypass as an oddity.  The ramps were weird and it was built with an urban design. My dad said that the bypass was proposed by Illinois in 1948 before the interstate system came along, but the actual construction didnt happen until 1953. If you look at the date marks on the KBS railroad bridge it is stamped "1953". Anyway, the way IDOT designed the bypass originally, the "new route" was to send all of US-45 traffic through that bypass by starting it between Ashkum and Clifton. That is why you can see the remnants of the bypass starting that far south.  Most people don't know but that bypass used to start/end at IL-50 north of Kankakee. Then when I-57 came along, they simply ran right on top of it.

The ramps at IL-50 have been completely redone and modernized.

The ramps at Court Street (IL-17) are still in their original 1953 style (including the support structure for the bridge) and I remember the last time IDOT tried to do something with them, the neighborhood howled. One study tried to close the exit completely for safety reasons, but people on the eastside complained. Kankakee tried to develop East Court after the bypass opened and there was for years a KMart, McDonalds, apartments, gas stations, but only the McDonalds remains. The apartments were converted to Section 8 housing.

IDOT has their hands tied becuase they didn't buy enough land back in the late 40's - early 50's and a cemetery constrains them on the west side of the highway. To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

That big tall Orange Skyscraper apartments at the IL 17 exit is the section 8? I saw that entire building listed on a google pop up ad as being up for auction starting at $100,000 so it must be in terrible condition. That whole stretch of 57 is now being widened to interstate standards. Only the railroad bridge still hasn't been touched and is quite narrow but the street crossing a thousand feet to the south is being redone much wider. There is also some strange brick railroad tower standing about a mile south of Kankakee along 57. My mom always fixates on it because she said there were lots of them like that when she was a kid in the 40s.

I used to look for that railroad tower myself as a kid. It is called "Otto Tower" and it controlled an Illinois Central interlocking with what was the IC Bloomington Branch. The line today goes west to Herscher and ends which has a massive LPG storage facility and a large quarry that also served by NS. Prior to the pull up of most of the line, it brought in traffic from not just Bloomington, IL, but there was also the Tracy Branch that ran from Buckingham to the Peabody Coal mine in South Wilmington. Also the Pontiac Branch of the IC came in on this line as well. So that is why at one time this was a very busy tower. I still remember seeing the signals from miles away.

https://southernillinoisnow.com/2023/11/25/idot-has-no-plans-to-improve-deteriorated-section-of-west-main-near-walmart (https://southernillinoisnow.com/2023/11/25/idot-has-no-plans-to-improve-deteriorated-section-of-west-main-near-walmart)

Seems the trucks are eating up US-50 west of I-57 and the town wants something done because they can't get into WalMart.

I love this comment, "IDOT tends to listen to city officials more than citizens complaints"

Quote from: edwaleni on November 25, 2023, 05:15:17 PM
I love this comment, "IDOT tends to listen to city officials more than citizens complaints"

As a government employee who fields complaints from residents, I can definitely see the benefit in having a middleman or other way to filter complaints from the public.  If another government entity has processed a number of complaints into a legitimate consensus drawn about the state of a roadway, I'll take that consensus over an isolated allegation any day.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 25, 2023, 09:52:34 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on November 25, 2023, 05:15:17 PM
I love this comment, "IDOT tends to listen to city officials more than citizens complaints"

As a government employee who fields complaints from residents, I can definitely see the benefit in having a middleman or other way to filter complaints from the public.  If another government entity has processed a number of complaints into a legitimate consensus drawn about the state of a roadway, I'll take that consensus over an isolated allegation any day.

Totally understand, better to let the local leadership filter the feedback.

As for why this spot has gotten a bit rough, is because between I-57 and US-50 West to CR-800, the AADT is 10,000+. Between a XPO logistics terminal, A lighting factory, a regional WalMart and a collection of other retail and commercial entities in such a small distance, and the fact this part of the road has only gotten minor patching at the section joints over the past 25-30 years makes for some consistent rip-rap when driving over it.

It should have been included in the IDOT STIP by the District IDOT commissioner, but I am going to hazard a guess that it probably passed a visual inspection and so it didn't get included.

Unless someone political gets involved, it probably wont get addressed until summer of 2024 at the soonest.

I was looking past that and it's 3 lane and looks recently repaved and upgraded shoulders some all the way from that beat up stretch to Carlyle.
I bet it's an oversight

US 50 was repaved in either 2020 or 2021 (I don't recall which, and Street View has dates of August 2019 and December 2021, so it's between those two) from just east of CR 800 and US 51 at Sandoval.  From US 51 to Carlyle the pavement is older, but it was not as bad as the 51 to Salem stretch was before it was repaved.  I always take 50 when I head to Mt. Carmel, at least from Sandoval to I-57.  Sometimes I've used it between Sandoval and Carlyle to take IL 127 up to Hillsboro to avoid using IL 185 and its mine subsidence issues.

Quote from: adt1982 on November 26, 2023, 10:11:04 PM
US 50 was repaved in either 2020 or 2021 (I don't recall which, and Street View has dates of August 2019 and December 2021, so it's between those two) from just east of CR 800 and US 51 at Sandoval.  From US 51 to Carlyle the pavement is older, but it was not as bad as the 51 to Salem stretch was before it was repaved.  I always take 50 when I head to Mt. Carmel, at least from Sandoval to I-57.  Sometimes I've used it between Sandoval and Carlyle to take IL 127 up to Hillsboro to avoid using IL 185 and its mine subsidence issues.

I checked the latest Google Street View and the US-50 repave ends just 100-200 feet east of the CR800 stoplight and then turns into the old sectioned concrete the rest of the way to I-57.

As for IL-185 between Hillsboro and Coffeen, you might be aware that the power plant at Coffeen was shut down forever. The last boiler I think was turned off last year and its going through teardown and environmental remediation.

I used to watch NS and BNSF back in coal trains through Sorrento to get to the plant.

According to the latest STIP from IDOT, US-50 is getting repaved from the Clay-Richland County line (Muddy Creek) to the first Lawrenceville exit some time in the next 4 years.

Curious to know how much longer IL-185 will continue to subside. For what its worth that road dates back to the early 1800's when it was a wagon trail between Hillsboro and the then Illinois capital of Vandalia.

Yes, I also watched the coal trains go to the Coffeen plant.  Latest update on the plant is that it's going to be some type of battery storage facility.  I've been following updates in the local news.  Hopefully most if not all subsidence on 185 is over.  They did a substantial repaving job this summer and fall in Montgomery County.

Illinois 185 was in rough shape west of Vandalia when I clinched it in February.  It's good to know it got some TLC since then!

Quote from: adt1982 on November 27, 2023, 07:50:22 AM
Yes, I also watched the coal trains go to the Coffeen plant.  Latest update on the plant is that it's going to be some type of battery storage facility.  I've been following updates in the local news.  Hopefully most if not all subsidence on 185 is over.  They did a substantial repaving job this summer and fall in Montgomery County.

Some of my ancestors were original homesteaders in Montgomery County after Illinois became a state and I lived in Bond County briefly. Been all over that 1920 era state road (1 lane wide) north of Greenville and retraced the Illinois Terminal from Hillsboro to Litchfield. I actually had to wait on a train in Butler once.

Quote from: edwaleni on July 26, 2023, 09:00:43 PM
I used to look for that railroad tower myself as a kid. It is called "Otto Tower" and it controlled an Illinois Central interlocking with what was the IC Bloomington Branch. The line today goes west to Herscher and ends which has a massive LPG storage facility and a large quarry that also served by NS. Prior to the pull up of most of the line, it brought in traffic from not just Bloomington, IL, but there was also the Tracy Branch that ran from Buckingham to the Peabody Coal mine in South Wilmington. Also the Pontiac Branch of the IC came in on this line as well. So that is why at one time this was a very busy tower. I still remember seeing the signals from miles away.

My late dad worked for the IC Railroad  in the Public Projects department while I-57 was being constructed. The overhead bridge over I-57 and the old IC mainline near the tower is Otto Road. My dad was given instructions to mark up every submittal given to him by the state, no matter how small the comment, in order to delay the opening of the new highway. They finally couldn't hold up the project any longer (probably at the order of the IL Commerce Commission) and the overhead bridge was built and the highway opened. Ironically, he was hired by IDOT a year after he left the railroad.

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 27, 2023, 05:24:09 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on July 26, 2023, 09:00:43 PM
I used to look for that railroad tower myself as a kid. It is called "Otto Tower" and it controlled an Illinois Central interlocking with what was the IC Bloomington Branch. The line today goes west to Herscher and ends which has a massive LPG storage facility and a large quarry that also served by NS. Prior to the pull up of most of the line, it brought in traffic from not just Bloomington, IL, but there was also the Tracy Branch that ran from Buckingham to the Peabody Coal mine in South Wilmington. Also the Pontiac Branch of the IC came in on this line as well. So that is why at one time this was a very busy tower. I still remember seeing the signals from miles away.

My late dad worked for the IC Railroad  in the Public Projects department while I-57 was being constructed. The overhead bridge over I-57 and the old IC mainline near the tower is Otto Road. My dad was given instructions to mark up every submittal given to him by the state, no matter how small the comment, in order to delay the opening of the new highway. They finally couldn't hold up the project any longer (probably at the order of the IL Commerce Commission) and the overhead bridge was built and the highway opened. Ironically, he was hired by IDOT a year after he left the railroad.

Speaking of that bridge for I-57 over the IC at Clifton, why does IDOT paint the outer girders green, but the inner girders grey?

Quote from: edwaleni on November 27, 2023, 11:25:47 PM

Speaking of that bridge for I-57 over the IC at Clifton, why does IDOT paint the outer girders green, but the inner girders grey?

The grey color makes the girders easier to inspect. Outer fascia girders are green, brown or blue for appearance, although IDOT is starting to also use grey for fascia beams too.

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 28, 2023, 12:07:14 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on November 27, 2023, 11:25:47 PM

Speaking of that bridge for I-57 over the IC at Clifton, why does IDOT paint the outer girders green, but the inner girders grey?

The grey color makes the girders easier to inspect. Outer fascia girders are green, brown or blue for appearance, although IDOT is starting to also use grey for fascia beams too.

When the Interstates were built in the 1960's green seemed to be the preferred color. Brown appeared (to me) when I-255 was built through the St Louis Metro East.

I haven't (or cant recall) seen a blue in Illinois, but lots of them in Indiana.

Quote from: edwaleni on November 28, 2023, 08:42:18 AM
I haven't (or cant recall) seen a blue in Illinois, but lots of them in Indiana.

There's a darker blue on some of the I-70 overpasses (https://maps.app.goo.gl/efstMBhkddvWRbug7) and some around Quad Cities (https://maps.app.goo.gl/QqwipWo9iZ9EXHX86).  IIRC Indiana seems to normally (or at least somewhat frequently) use a  light blue shade. (https://maps.app.goo.gl/y1YpJrTC8QLdsA498).

Quote from: Revive 755 on November 28, 2023, 10:05:37 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on November 28, 2023, 08:42:18 AM
I haven't (or cant recall) seen a blue in Illinois, but lots of them in Indiana.

There's a darker blue on some of the I-70 overpasses (https://maps.app.goo.gl/efstMBhkddvWRbug7) and some around Quad Cities (https://maps.app.goo.gl/QqwipWo9iZ9EXHX86).  IIRC Indiana seems to normally (or at least somewhat frequently) use a  light blue shade. (https://maps.app.goo.gl/y1YpJrTC8QLdsA498).

I-57 over US 50 in Salem has blue paint https://maps.app.goo.gl/9DHMwfvLM8TBsPqXA?g_st=ic