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Which cities would be good for expansion franchises?

Started by OCGuy81, February 25, 2021, 04:00:05 PM

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OCGuy81

Russell Wilson has been working to help bring the MLB to Portland, which I'd be a big fan of. This got me thinking of what other cities are underserved by major sports leagues.

I feel Covid might be the swan song for the NFL commissioner's pipe dream of a London team, but there's other markets that might benefit. Mexico City has had exhibition games and the logistics for travel to there makes more sense than London given the time difference.

Here's a few places I could see some new teams setting up shop in.

MLB:

Portland (potentially in the works)

Nashville. Far enough away not to really encroach on the Braves' market. What would the next nearest market be? St Louis?

Charlotte.

Montreal....though was there ever much love when the Expos were there?

NFL:

San Antonio. I don't think Texas needs a 3rd team, but they do love football and I'm sure San Antonio wouldn't mind a team.

Mexico City. The exhibition games held there have proved to be rather popular. Certainly a large market.

NBA:

Seattle. Let the Sonics come back?


kevinb1994

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 25, 2021, 04:00:05 PM
Russell Wilson has been working to help bring the MLB to Portland, which I'd be a big fan of. This got me thinking of what other cities are underserved by major sports leagues.

I feel Covid might be the swan song for the NFL commissioner's pipe dream of a London team, but there's other markets that might benefit. Mexico City has had exhibition games and the logistics for travel to there makes more sense than London given the time difference.

Here's a few places I could see some new teams setting up shop in.

MLB:

Portland (potentially in the works)

Nashville. Far enough away not to really encroach on the Braves' market. What would the next nearest market be? St Louis?

Charlotte.

Montreal....though was there ever much love when the Expos were there?

NFL:

San Antonio. I don't think Texas needs a 3rd team, but they do love football and I'm sure San Antonio wouldn't mind a team.

Mexico City. The exhibition games held there have proved to be rather popular. Certainly a large market.

NBA:

Seattle. Let the Sonics come back?
Seattle yes. There's talk about a new NBA team there.

Bruce

We'll welcome the Sonics back, but only if the Thunder relinquish all their stolen records.

Portland still needs to find a suitable site for a ballpark that doesn't upset the NIMBYs, which is a tough one. I'd hope a riverfront site would help spur redevelopment of the east bank, especially if I-5 could be relocated.

For MLS:

Phoenix is the largest market without an MLS team, and is in the running alongside Las Vegas to fill a gap in the west. It's possible that RSL could be forced to move, and they have strong ties to Phoenix through their academy presence.

San Diego could potentially host a team at their new CFB stadium, but the California market is over-saturated already with 4 teams.

Detroit has a local team that doesn't want anything to do with MLS, and already botched their chance at a stadium.

I don't see Indianapolis and Louisville being all that appealing, but the latter already has a small stadium for their USL team that could be expanded.

Billy F 1988

It's a bummer Montana has markets too small to host anything significant like MLS or anything else remotely pro.
Finally upgraded to Expressway after, what, seven or so years on this forum? Took a dadgum while, but, I made it!

hotdogPi

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on February 25, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
It's a bummer Montana has markets too small to host anything significant like MLS or anything else remotely pro.

For MLB, NFL, and NHL, if you put it in the correct part of Montana, it will be the closest team to Salt Lake City.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

OCGuy81

Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2021, 05:10:50 PM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on February 25, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
It's a bummer Montana has markets too small to host anything significant like MLS or anything else remotely pro.

For MLB, NFL, and NHL, if you put it in the correct part of Montana, it will be the closest team to Salt Lake City.

Hmmm that's true, and you'd draw from areas with nothing professional like Idaho and Wyoming.

Montana could potentially do it. I mean....Green Bay, WI has a franchise 😋

TheHighwayMan3561

#6
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2021, 05:10:50 PM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on February 25, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
It's a bummer Montana has markets too small to host anything significant like MLS or anything else remotely pro.

For MLB, NFL, and NHL, if you put it in the correct part of Montana, it will be the closest team to Salt Lake City.

And again, going back to when you asserted this type of scenario in past threads, that isn't how this works. The real-life example would be the Tampa Bay Rays, whose stadium is on the fringe of the Tampa Bay metro in a poorly planned out location, and despite being one of the better teams in the AL for the last decade they can't get anyone to come out unless they're hosting New York or Boston when those visiting fans overrun the stadium.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

OCGuy81

Quote from: Bruce on February 25, 2021, 04:29:28 PM
We'll welcome the Sonics back, but only if the Thunder relinquish all their stolen records.

Portland still needs to find a suitable site for a ballpark that doesn't upset the NIMBYs, which is a tough one. I'd hope a riverfront site would help spur redevelopment of the east bank, especially if I-5 could be relocated.

For MLS:

Phoenix is the largest market without an MLS team, and is in the running alongside Las Vegas to fill a gap in the west. It's possible that RSL could be forced to move, and they have strong ties to Phoenix through their academy presence.

San Diego could potentially host a team at their new CFB stadium, but the California market is over-saturated already with 4 teams.

Detroit has a local team that doesn't want anything to do with MLS, and already botched their chance at a stadium.

I don't see Indianapolis and Louisville being all that appealing, but the latter already has a small stadium for their USL team that could be expanded.

Last I heard they were looking at some locations in north Portland, kind of near University of Portland, likely river adjacent.

I'm assuming they'd be in the NL as an expansion team, as there's plenty of Seattle fans in and around Oregon the Mariners wouldn't want to be encroached upon.

dkblake

Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

If we consider that part of LA (and it's part of the Los Angeles CSA), then the next ones without are Austin (similar in size to Las Vegas/Cincinnati) and Virginia Beach.
2dis clinched: 8, 17, 69(original), 71, 72, 78, 81, 84(E), 86(E), 88(E), 89, 91, 93, 97

Mob-rule: http://www.mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/dblake.gif

thspfc

NFL isn't expanding before 2050 at earliest. NBA needs to fix their huge ratings problem before they think about it. MLB is in decline. NHL is set at 32 teams, with the already confirmed Seattle team.

Bruce

Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
If we consider that part of LA (and it's part of the Los Angeles CSA), then the next ones without are Austin (similar in size to Las Vegas/Cincinnati) and Virginia Beach.

Austin's MLS team is set to begin play this season, and arguably it is part of the same metro area as San Antonio.

keithvh

I've always thought Louisville would be a good market for an NBA team.

Add them and Seattle and then you have a 32-team league.

ET21

Quote from: kevinb1994 on February 25, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 25, 2021, 04:00:05 PM
Russell Wilson has been working to help bring the MLB to Portland, which I'd be a big fan of. This got me thinking of what other cities are underserved by major sports leagues.

I feel Covid might be the swan song for the NFL commissioner's pipe dream of a London team, but there's other markets that might benefit. Mexico City has had exhibition games and the logistics for travel to there makes more sense than London given the time difference.

Here's a few places I could see some new teams setting up shop in.

MLB:

Portland (potentially in the works)

Nashville. Far enough away not to really encroach on the Braves' market. What would the next nearest market be? St Louis?

Charlotte.

Montreal....though was there ever much love when the Expos were there?

NFL:

San Antonio. I don't think Texas needs a 3rd team, but they do love football and I'm sure San Antonio wouldn't mind a team.

Mexico City. The exhibition games held there have proved to be rather popular. Certainly a large market.

NBA:

Seattle. Let the Sonics come back?
Seattle yes. There's talk about a new NBA team there.

Seattle might be the next for NBA, especially now that they have a NHL franchise coming
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

JayhawkCO

Quote from: keithvh on February 25, 2021, 09:58:11 PM
I've always thought Louisville would be a good market for an NBA team.

Add them and Seattle and then you have a 32-team league.

The biggest markets for college basketball seem to be the worst for pro.  Hence why Kansas City doesn't have nor want an NBA team.

Chris

Big John

^^ Kansas City had the Kings until they moved to Sacramento in 1985.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Big John on February 27, 2021, 01:15:38 PM
^^ Kansas City had the Kings until they moved to Sacramento in 1985.

Exactly.  They moved.

Chris

epzik8

MLB: Raleigh, Nashville, Portland
NBA: Virginia Beach, Seattle, Kansas City, Louisville
NHL: Hamilton, Quebec City, Halifax
NFL: None as far as I'm concerned
MLS: Don't care about it
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

MikeTheActuary

Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

Is it the largest MSA without a professional sports team...or the largest MSA without a major league team?

I wish that, for at least some sports, there were a promotion/relegation mechanism to/from the major league of that sport.

mgk920

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 27, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

Is it the largest MSA without a professional sports team...or the largest MSA without a major league team?

I wish that, for at least some sports, there were a promotion/relegation mechanism to/from the major league of that sport.

With all of the off-the-field/court cr*p that has been going on the last few years and especially so far this year, we may now be closer to converting to the full private sports club/promotion and relegation thing that anyone realizes.

As for current sports leagues, I'm thinking that basketball and hockey would be the easiest and make the most to convert, followed by baseball.

Mike

TheHighwayMan3561

#19
Quote from: mgk920 on February 27, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 27, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

Is it the largest MSA without a professional sports team...or the largest MSA without a major league team?

I wish that, for at least some sports, there were a promotion/relegation mechanism to/from the major league of that sport.

With all of the off-the-field/court cr*p that has been going on the last few years and especially so far this year, we may now be closer to converting to the full private sports club/promotion and relegation thing that anyone realizes.

As for current sports leagues, I'm thinking that basketball and hockey would be the easiest and make the most to convert, followed by baseball.

Mike

European-style promotion/relegation will never happen in North American sports. There's no infrastructure for it with either personnel or stadiums and there's no desire to create it. Plus the talent pool for top-level talent is too thin as it is. I think proponents see it as a way to punish bad teams and discourage tanking, but then they'd be replaced by other bad teams. There's also no profit in swapping out, say, the Baltimore Orioles for a top AAA team.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

hotdogPi

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 28, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 27, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 27, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

Is it the largest MSA without a professional sports team...or the largest MSA without a major league team?

I wish that, for at least some sports, there were a promotion/relegation mechanism to/from the major league of that sport.

With all of the off-the-field/court cr*p that has been going on the last few years and especially so far this year, we may now be closer to converting to the full private sports club/promotion and relegation thing that anyone realizes.

As for current sports leagues, I'm thinking that basketball and hockey would be the easiest and make the most to convert, followed by baseball.

Mike

European-style promotion/relegation will never happen in North American sports. There's no infrastructure for it and there's no desire to create it. Plus the talent pool for top-level talent is too thin as it is. I think proponents see it as a way to punish bad teams and discourage tanking, but then they'd be replaced by other bad teams.

You don't think the best second-level team (which is the one that will be promoted) is better than the worst top-level team in most sports? It's not like you're promoting a random second-level team.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

TheHighwayMan3561

#21
Quote from: 1 on February 28, 2021, 02:12:24 PM
You don't think the best second-level team (which is the one that will be promoted) is better than the worst top-level team in most sports? It's not like you're promoting a random second-level team.

No, I don't. Many of those players are either marginal top-level players or raw talent that hasn't developed yet. Minor League Baseball for example is about player development before gameplay, and not every minor league player even at AAA is major-league caliber. Granted, with MLB now assuming more direct involvement in MiLB, that might change some.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

mgk920

Quote from: 1 on February 28, 2021, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 28, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 27, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 27, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

Is it the largest MSA without a professional sports team...or the largest MSA without a major league team?

I wish that, for at least some sports, there were a promotion/relegation mechanism to/from the major league of that sport.

With all of the off-the-field/court cr*p that has been going on the last few years and especially so far this year, we may now be closer to converting to the full private sports club/promotion and relegation thing that anyone realizes.

As for current sports leagues, I'm thinking that basketball and hockey would be the easiest and make the most to convert, followed by baseball.

Mike

European-style promotion/relegation will never happen in North American sports. There's no infrastructure for it and there's no desire to create it. Plus the talent pool for top-level talent is too thin as it is. I think proponents see it as a way to punish bad teams and discourage tanking, but then they'd be replaced by other bad teams.

You don't think the best second-level team (which is the one that will be promoted) is better than the worst top-level team in most sports? It's not like you're promoting a random second-level team.

You do have the NCAA, which for many reasons that I will not discuss here, may well be on the verge of imploding.  If/when that happens, most or all of the needed infrastructure will already be in place.

Mike

NWI_Irish96

As I've noted previously, none of the four major sports have enough talent to truly warrant adding teams, but the best cities for potential relocations:

NFL - San Antonio
MLB - Montreal
NBA - Las Vegas
NHL - Houston

As to the promotion/relegation discussion-it won't work because of how North American sports leagues are structured. The minor league teams and their players (except for in a couple independent baseball leagues) are owned by a parent club. Norwich City can replace Sheffield United in the EPL because Norwich City isn't affiliated with any existing EPL clubs. The Columbus Clippers can't replace the Baltimore Orioles in MLB because the Clippers players' contracts are all held by the Cleveland Baseball Club and they aren't giving those players up. Similar arrangements exist in the NHL and NBA.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Alps

Quote from: mgk920 on March 01, 2021, 05:20:19 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 28, 2021, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 28, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 27, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 27, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: dkblake on February 25, 2021, 08:12:44 PM
Interestingly, the largest metro area (MSA) without a professional sports team is the Inland Empire of CA- more people in it than Detroit, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and others with multiple teams.

Is it the largest MSA without a professional sports team...or the largest MSA without a major league team?

I wish that, for at least some sports, there were a promotion/relegation mechanism to/from the major league of that sport.

With all of the off-the-field/court cr*p that has been going on the last few years and especially so far this year, we may now be closer to converting to the full private sports club/promotion and relegation thing that anyone realizes.

As for current sports leagues, I'm thinking that basketball and hockey would be the easiest and make the most to convert, followed by baseball.

Mike

European-style promotion/relegation will never happen in North American sports. There's no infrastructure for it and there's no desire to create it. Plus the talent pool for top-level talent is too thin as it is. I think proponents see it as a way to punish bad teams and discourage tanking, but then they'd be replaced by other bad teams.

You don't think the best second-level team (which is the one that will be promoted) is better than the worst top-level team in most sports? It's not like you're promoting a random second-level team.

You do have the NCAA, which for many reasons that I will not discuss here, may well be on the verge of imploding.  If/when that happens, most or all of the needed infrastructure will already be in place.

Mike
The NCAA is not imploding. The most I've heard is that football is close to breaking off and self-regulating, but the NCAA would continue with other sports including basketball.



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