Covid vaccination status?

[Ketchup99]

I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.

Both doses of both shots? Four shots total? I'm confused...
But yes, this will inevitably happen, and CDC stats show that around 6000 people have tested positive after full vaccination. But in that population, we'd expect around 300,000 positive tests without the vaccine, since the vaccines around 95 percent effective. While they aren't perfect, they certainly get close.
The vaccine is like a seatbelt. Can you die in a car crash with a seatbelt on? Sure. Does it make it less likely? Yes.

[Roadgeekteen]

I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.

Both doses of both shots? Four shots total? I'm confused...
But yes, this will inevitably happen, and CDC stats show that around 6000 people have tested positive after full vaccination. But in that population, we'd expect around 300,000 positive tests without the vaccine, since the vaccines around 95 percent effective. While they aren't perfect, they certainly get close.
The vaccine is like a seatbelt. Can you die in a car crash with a seatbelt on? Sure. Does it make it less likely? Yes.

Maybe he met one person who got it after pfizer and one person who got it after moderna.

[Duke87]

A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it.

Nnnn that's actually not quite what it means. What it means is if you are exposed, your risk of getting infected is 5% of what it would be if you were unvaccinated. Since the odds of becoming infected if exposed while unvaccinated are not 100%, the odds while vaccinated are therefore less than 5%.

Or another way of looking at this on a population scale is that we expect to see an infection in a vaccinated person for every 20 infections in unvaccinated people.

[Roadgeekteen]

A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it.

Nnnn that's actually not quite what it means. What it means is if you are exposed, your risk of getting infected is 5% of what it would be if you were unvaccinated. Since the odds of becoming infected if exposed while unvaccinated are not 100%, the odds while vaccinated are therefore less than 5%.

Or another way of looking at this on a population scale is that we expect to see an infection in a vaccinated person for every 20 infections in unvaccinated people.

I wonder if any hospital data has been released about this.

[J N Winkler]

In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal.  As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death.  (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)

[JayhawkCO]

In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal.  As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death.  (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)

Which I think is an important distinction.  If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying.  Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.

Chris

[Roadgeekteen]

In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal.  As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death.  (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)

Which I think is an important distinction.  If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying.  Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.

Chris

Don't get it. Do some people want to die? Covid isn't the most deadly thing, but it can kill.

[JayhawkCO]

In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal.  As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death.  (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)

Which I think is an important distinction.  If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying.  Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.

Chris

Don't get it. Do some people want to die? Covid isn't the most deadly thing, but it can kill.

I mean, I understand the people that are using probability to make their decision.  There's a non-zero chance I can die of the flu every year, including if I get a vaccine.  But before Covid, I never got the flu vaccine because I didn't understand that it "wasn't about me".  I just figured there's x percent chance I get it and y percent chance that I die from it and y is a very, very small number as an active, fit, 30-something.  If people don't want to get the Covid vaccine because they think there's such a small chance of them dying from Covid that it doesn't matter, I at least understand the logic (because there's actually logic there).  Those that don't want to get it "just 'cuz" or because they think Jeff Bezos is implanting them with nanochips, those are the people I want to shake.  But either way, it's not about the person getting the vaccine, it's about others that are going to be less likely to be infected because more and more people are vaccinated.

Chris

[tolbs17]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

[Roadgeekteen]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

[tolbs17]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

[Roadgeekteen]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Maybe she will get it after full FDA approval.

[Rothman]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

[Roadgeekteen]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers don't care.

[Max Rockatansky]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers don't care.

Just because someone doesn't want a vaccine doesn't automatically make them an anti-vaxer.  My wife is hesitant too (given she wants to get pregnant) and definitely isn't an anti-vaxer.  Some people are just more cautious than others even when you give them evidence/encouragement you think ought to change their mind.

[Roadgeekteen]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers don't care.

Just because someone doesn't want a vaccine doesn't automatically make them an anti-vaxer.  My wife is hesitant too (given she wants to get pregnant) and definitely isn't an anti-vaxer.  Some people are just more cautious than others even when you give them evidence/encouragement you think ought to change their mind.

Actually, vaccine-hesitant.

[tolbs17]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Will do.

[Rothman]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers don't care.

Hence why I called them brats.  "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team."  The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.thejournal.ie/no-evidence-pfizer-vaccine-update-variants-5433235-May2021/

Good news!

[tolbs17]

https://www.thejournal.ie/no-evidence-pfizer-vaccine-update-variants-5433235-May2021/

Good news!

Fuck yeah.

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.thejournal.ie/no-evidence-pfizer-vaccine-update-variants-5433235-May2021/

Good news!

Fuck yeah.

Fuck you covid.

[Max Rockatansky]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers don't care.

Hence why I called them brats.  "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team."  The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.

But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations).  In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child.  Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time.  She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included).  I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines.  All this "social encouragement"  stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go. 

[Max Rockatansky]

What motivates neutral people probably is completely subjective when it comes to vaccines.  I don't particularly "fear COVID"  nor really have a strong feeling about it as a social cause myself.  I've been exposed to people every single day since this all lockdown and pandemic stuff began, never once did I have a work from home day.  Out of my own employee populace the amount of serious cases was non-existent (there was a great many of confirmed cases) and for my part never felt ill enough that I felt I needed to take a day off (which was the first time that happened since 2007).   Really the experience just reinforced what I thought when COVID began to be a serious topic; "it is a potentially serious disease largely for unhealthy groups, but not serious enough to shut the whole world down for."

To top it off my wife had a confirmed COVID infection last year.  She didn't have much more than some sniffles a week or two prior to testing positive, I never had any symptoms and just stayed at home until the recommended time had elapsed (fortunately this happened on vacation).   So to that end I can see why my wife doesn't treat COVID as seriously as she once did, it was a paper tiger when had it. 

That said, do I think it was necessary for me to get vaccinated on the basis of COVID-19 carrying serious risk for me?...no of course not.  Considering I'm a very active person and the totality of the above, why would I? 

That said, my decision to get vaccinated was based off of more that I just want to move on with my life.  To that end, there is some serious barriers in my way:

1.  I have a very aggressive employer regarding COVID protocols.  I have no doubt a vaccine will be required (or it will be incredibly likely) once they start receiving full FDA approval.
2.  I live in a state that already has COVID passports in place for things I want to do.  I also frequent locales out of state where that likely will be a thing as well.

I don't want anymore barriers that I can easily avoid.  So it was an easy call to go get vaccinated.  I have no interest in dragging out COVID born misery any longer than necessary and I probably would have gone out in town to get vaccinated.  Fortunately my employer made it easy for me to get shots and even let me get them on the clock.  Seems like an obvious and easy choice in retrospect, no different than any other vaccines I've received before (aside from the consequences described above).

My wife doesn't have those consequences I described above looming over her.  Her job doesn't care if she is vaccinated and she isn't bothered by the concept of a vaccine passport.  I tell her these things are a reality for some, but I guess she'll have to possibly cross that bridge for herself and maybe miss out on something she wants to do.  She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.  I think that me (and others in our immediate circle) pushing her anymore when she's already told me to stop won't help at this point.  I just need to let her be an adult and make the decision for herself.  I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance. 

[bing101]

Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html

My whole family can get it now.

My sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.

Tell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers don't care.

Some people were abused by a doctor or knew somebody who was killed by Opioid abuse and that may be a factor why some people would side with anti-vax politicians. But its just me trying to learn to pretend how to look at people who do not have a biology degree like I do though.  I had to learn what my family members  know about biology and what knowledge gaps I can fill them in with about vaccine research and the FDA clinical trials process. Also Vaccine exemption laws


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-21/sb276-california-vaccine-law-fight-gavin-newsom-legislature-how-it-happened


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-09-24/california-law-to-restrict-medical-vaccine-exemptions-raises-questions-over-control


I had to explain California vaccine exemptions laws and it only accepts medical exemptions. Note medical exemptions to vaccines is subjected to medical board audit in the state.

[Roadgeekteen]

She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.

Yikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.