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Author Topic: Proposed but never built bridges  (Read 28234 times)

ElPanaChevere

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2014, 03:05:37 AM »

If they could build a link between Connecticut and Long Island, that'd be great. Nowadays, you'd have to travel west, preferably use the Whitestone, Throgs Neck, or Triboro Bridge (which are laden with heavy traffic as it is), and travel northeast-east again. It's not the bridge leads to an uninhabited place. Both places, southern Connecticut and Long Island, are very crowded places and a bridge/tunnel link between the two would reduce traffic loads and commute times. I think another option that I read about was that they might extend I-287 south-southwest and provide a link to Long Island (so that travelers going to Eastern Long Island from elsewhere wouldn't have to go through NYC).
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golden eagle

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2015, 12:24:46 AM »

If counting tunnels, what's the one that Chris Christie refused to have built?
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vdeane

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2015, 04:33:37 PM »

I believe the Amtrak tunnel under the Hudson that is technically still proposed and moving along.
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Jardine

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2015, 07:53:01 PM »

Haven't heard anything for several years about extending 16th street in Omaha Nebraska, north over the Missouri River, and then lining up with 130th street in Pottawatomie Co. and connecting with i-680 at the first interchange east of the Mormon Bridge.

The idea here is the bridge and connections would connect the Storz Expressway to I-680 (and I-29).

It would provide better access to Eppley Airfield from the north, and at last extend the North Expressway (albeit indirectly) to an interstate instead of dumping a  crush of traffic into the historic downtown Florence area via 30th street.
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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2016, 11:46:01 AM »

Quote from: golden eagle
If counting tunnels, what's the one that Chris Christie refused to have built?

Was called Access to the Region's Core (or ARC). It was to have been a pair of NJTransit tunnels connecting to a new station adjacent to Penn Station, but the tracks would not have connected to anything else.  In theory, it would have preserved capacity on Amtrak's existing tunnels as NJTransit trains currently using the Amtrak tunnels would have been diverted.

The project Val is referring to is something different...called the Gateway Project.  It will, in effect, build two new Amtrak lines parallel to the existing lines.  A later phase will shift traffic to the new tunnels so that the existing Amtrak tunnels can be rehabilitated.  The end result will be 4 Amtrak tracks under the Hudson, all with through-running capability, instead of the existing 2.
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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2016, 12:00:34 PM »

On the subject of bridges...noticed I didn't mention these when the thread first started.

A 1963 Saint Paul thoroughfare plan proposed 3 new bridges across the Mississippi River that were never built:

- One would have directly connected E 34th St in Minneapolis to Summit Ave in St. Paul.

- A second bridge near downtown St. Paul would have connected to Plato Blvd on one side of the river and to Kellogg Blvd in the vicinity of the Xcel Center/Convention Center parking ramp on the downtown side.

- A third bridge was proposed near Pig's Eye that would have connected to a relocated Butler Ave in South St. Paul and to Lower Afton Rd at US 10/61 on the St. Paul side.

Not included on the 1963 map was a proposal that I've dated to the late 1960s that would have built a semi-direct river crossing connecting MN 62 to Shepard Rd in St. Paul.
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SteveG1988

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2016, 01:45:43 PM »

The Skylink Aerial Tram between Camden NJ and Philadelphia PA. Pier built on the PA side, foundation for a pier built on the NJ Side.







On the Camden side in aerial imagery you see the pier foundations, but nothing really got built.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-07-21-tram-trouble_x.htm
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GaryV

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2016, 08:51:49 PM »

I missed this the first time around, and since someone has revived it ....

There were several proposals to cross the Straits of Mackinac before the Mackinac Bridge was built:
Quote
In 1920, the Michigan state highway commissioner advocated construction of a floating tunnel across the Straits. At the invitation of the state legislature, C. E. Fowler of New York City put forth a plan for a long series of causeways and bridges across the straits from Cheboygan, 17 miles (27 km) southeast of Mackinaw City, to St. Ignace, using Bois Blanc, Round, and Mackinac islands as intermediate steps.
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackinac_Bridge )
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KEVIN_224

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2016, 08:11:39 PM »

Thanks for answering the Philadelphia question! I always wondered what that concrete was for! :)
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Jardine

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2016, 08:18:59 PM »



model of Ruck a Chucky Bridge.

I just love this one, too bad it's unbuilt.


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cl94

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2016, 09:12:50 PM »

Quote from: golden eagle
If counting tunnels, what's the one that Chris Christie refused to have built?

Was called Access to the Region's Core (or ARC). It was to have been a pair of NJTransit tunnels connecting to a new station adjacent to Penn Station, but the tracks would not have connected to anything else.  In theory, it would have preserved capacity on Amtrak's existing tunnels as NJTransit trains currently using the Amtrak tunnels would have been diverted.

The project Val is referring to is something different...called the Gateway Project.  It will, in effect, build two new Amtrak lines parallel to the existing lines.  A later phase will shift traffic to the new tunnels so that the existing Amtrak tunnels can be rehabilitated.  The end result will be 4 Amtrak tracks under the Hudson, all with through-running capability, instead of the existing 2.

Correct. Part of the project would include converting the adjacent post office into an expanded Penn Station and 2 more tunnels under the East River (for a total of 6), in addition to added tracks east of Newark and a high-level bridge to replace a lift span. The North River Tunnels were severely damaged by Sandy, so building a new tunnel is the only way to repair them without greatly reducing capacity. Engineering is ongoing and the project is quite active, with the feds funding half of it and much of the rest coming from the Port Authority. Construction is expected to begin in 2019 with a planned 2024 opening. I'd be shocked if it wasn't built given the amount of support for it in both states.

ARC was a NJ Transit project that would have diverted most of their services, freeing the North River Tunnels for increased Amtrak service. In all, Gateway is actually a better project that is being lumped with the high-speed rail upgrades on the NEC to reduce travel times (and thus, theoretically, congestion on I-95).
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kkt

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2016, 11:05:59 PM »

The "Southern Crossing" has been proposed almost since the Bay Bridge first opened. Most plans had originating from US-101 along the Cesar Chavez Street (nee Army Street) corridor, either crossing to Alameda:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4235799354/in/set-72157622139053795

or Bay Farm Island, by the Oakland Airport:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4231789143/in/set-72157622139053795

That proposal has evolved.  More recently it's been studied as a crossing farther south, connecting I-238 to I-380.  The advantage to crossing there is that 238 and 380 provide feeder routes farther inland than 880 and 101, so 880 and 101 wouldn't get as congested with traffic to and from the bridge.  The disadvantages are that it crosses the bay at its widest and most expensive point, that airplanes to and from both SFO and OAK would restrict the height of the bridge, there's still a couple of miles of housing and business subdivisions and wetlands it would have to pass through on the eastern side, and of course tremendous expense - estimated at $8 billion back in 2002 and who knows how much more now.
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mrsman

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2016, 10:51:27 AM »

The "Southern Crossing" has been proposed almost since the Bay Bridge first opened. Most plans had originating from US-101 along the Cesar Chavez Street (nee Army Street) corridor, either crossing to Alameda:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4235799354/in/set-72157622139053795

or Bay Farm Island, by the Oakland Airport:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4231789143/in/set-72157622139053795

That proposal has evolved.  More recently it's been studied as a crossing farther south, connecting I-238 to I-380.  The advantage to crossing there is that 238 and 380 provide feeder routes farther inland than 880 and 101, so 880 and 101 wouldn't get as congested with traffic to and from the bridge.  The disadvantages are that it crosses the bay at its widest and most expensive point, that airplanes to and from both SFO and OAK would restrict the height of the bridge, there's still a couple of miles of housing and business subdivisions and wetlands it would have to pass through on the eastern side, and of course tremendous expense - estimated at $8 billion back in 2002 and who knows how much more now.

What is the comparison cost between putting up this bridge vs. widening the San Mateo Bridge.  In my mind, it would be most useful to widen existing bridges than to put up this new bridge.

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kkt

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2016, 11:43:48 PM »

The "Southern Crossing" has been proposed almost since the Bay Bridge first opened. Most plans had originating from US-101 along the Cesar Chavez Street (nee Army Street) corridor, either crossing to Alameda:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4235799354/in/set-72157622139053795

or Bay Farm Island, by the Oakland Airport:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4231789143/in/set-72157622139053795

That proposal has evolved.  More recently it's been studied as a crossing farther south, connecting I-238 to I-380.  The advantage to crossing there is that 238 and 380 provide feeder routes farther inland than 880 and 101, so 880 and 101 wouldn't get as congested with traffic to and from the bridge.  The disadvantages are that it crosses the bay at its widest and most expensive point, that airplanes to and from both SFO and OAK would restrict the height of the bridge, there's still a couple of miles of housing and business subdivisions and wetlands it would have to pass through on the eastern side, and of course tremendous expense - estimated at $8 billion back in 2002 and who knows how much more now.

What is the comparison cost between putting up this bridge vs. widening the San Mateo Bridge.  In my mind, it would be most useful to widen existing bridges than to put up this new bridge.

The San Mateo Bridge widening project in 2002 cost $189 million at the time.  That project built a new 3-lane bridge and converted the old 4-lane, no shoulders bridge into a 3-lane bridge with shoulders.  Adjusting the $189 million for today's construction costs is left as an exercise.
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Rothman

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2016, 11:04:45 AM »

The "Southern Crossing" has been proposed almost since the Bay Bridge first opened. Most plans had originating from US-101 along the Cesar Chavez Street (nee Army Street) corridor, either crossing to Alameda:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4235799354/in/set-72157622139053795

or Bay Farm Island, by the Oakland Airport:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4231789143/in/set-72157622139053795

That proposal has evolved.  More recently it's been studied as a crossing farther south, connecting I-238 to I-380.  The advantage to crossing there is that 238 and 380 provide feeder routes farther inland than 880 and 101, so 880 and 101 wouldn't get as congested with traffic to and from the bridge.  The disadvantages are that it crosses the bay at its widest and most expensive point, that airplanes to and from both SFO and OAK would restrict the height of the bridge, there's still a couple of miles of housing and business subdivisions and wetlands it would have to pass through on the eastern side, and of course tremendous expense - estimated at $8 billion back in 2002 and who knows how much more now.

What is the comparison cost between putting up this bridge vs. widening the San Mateo Bridge.  In my mind, it would be most useful to widen existing bridges than to put up this new bridge.

The San Mateo Bridge widening project in 2002 cost $189 million at the time.  That project built a new 3-lane bridge and converted the old 4-lane, no shoulders bridge into a 3-lane bridge with shoulders.  Adjusting the $189 million for today's construction costs is left as an exercise.


Seems remarkably cheap in any matter.
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kkt

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2016, 11:40:31 AM »

The "Southern Crossing" has been proposed almost since the Bay Bridge first opened. Most plans had originating from US-101 along the Cesar Chavez Street (nee Army Street) corridor, either crossing to Alameda:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4235799354/in/set-72157622139053795

or Bay Farm Island, by the Oakland Airport:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4231789143/in/set-72157622139053795
That proposal has evolved.  More recently it's been studied as a crossing farther south, connecting I-238 to I-380.  The advantage to crossing there is that 238 and 380 provide feeder routes farther inland than 880 and 101, so 880 and 101 wouldn't get as congested with traffic to and from the bridge.  The disadvantages are that it crosses the bay at its widest and most expensive point, that airplanes to and from both SFO and OAK would restrict the height of the bridge, there's still a couple of miles of housing and business subdivisions and wetlands it would have to pass through on the eastern side, and of course tremendous expense - estimated at $8 billion back in 2002 and who knows how much more now.
What is the comparison cost between putting up this bridge vs. widening the San Mateo Bridge.  In my mind, it would be most useful to widen existing bridges than to put up this new bridge.
The San Mateo Bridge widening project in 2002 cost $189 million at the time.  That project built a new 3-lane bridge and converted the old 4-lane, no shoulders bridge into a 3-lane bridge with shoulders.  Adjusting the $189 million for today's construction costs is left as an exercise.
Seems remarkably cheap in any matter.

Yes, it does.  I'm not sure that adding additional lanes would be as cheap though.  There may be ROW acquisition costs if it were to be widened again.
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Pete from Boston

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2016, 01:43:56 PM »

Does anyone remember the little yellow "BACK THE BOSTON BYPASS" signs on telephone poles around Massachusetts in the 1990s?

I can't believe this proposal gained enough tenacity to lodge itself in Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Zarrilli#Boston_Bypass

In any case, proposed a lot by one man, never built.
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Buffaboy

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2016, 06:47:47 PM »

The "New Peace Bridge," in Buffalo. It was cancelled partly due to the effects it could have on migratory birds, but I just think they couldn't come up with the money in the first place.

A long time ago I saved the articles in the Buffalo News that had the designs and proposals on them, but I don't know where they are now.



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kkt

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2016, 07:52:02 PM »

The "New Peace Bridge," in Buffalo. It was cancelled partly due to the effects it could have on migratory birds, but I just think they couldn't come up with the money in the first place.

A long time ago I saved the articles in the Buffalo News that had the designs and proposals on them, but I don't know where they are now.



Very pretty!
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Buffaboy

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2016, 09:27:20 PM »

The "New Peace Bridge," in Buffalo. It was cancelled partly due to the effects it could have on migratory birds, but I just think they couldn't come up with the money in the first place.

A long time ago I saved the articles in the Buffalo News that had the designs and proposals on them, but I don't know where they are now.



Very pretty!

Yes, it is a shame it wasn't constructed.
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Bruce

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2016, 03:03:48 PM »

The "Southern Crossing" has been proposed almost since the Bay Bridge first opened. Most plans had originating from US-101 along the Cesar Chavez Street (nee Army Street) corridor, either crossing to Alameda:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4235799354/in/set-72157622139053795

or Bay Farm Island, by the Oakland Airport:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4231789143/in/set-72157622139053795

That proposal has evolved.  More recently it's been studied as a crossing farther south, connecting I-238 to I-380.  The advantage to crossing there is that 238 and 380 provide feeder routes farther inland than 880 and 101, so 880 and 101 wouldn't get as congested with traffic to and from the bridge.  The disadvantages are that it crosses the bay at its widest and most expensive point, that airplanes to and from both SFO and OAK would restrict the height of the bridge, there's still a couple of miles of housing and business subdivisions and wetlands it would have to pass through on the eastern side, and of course tremendous expense - estimated at $8 billion back in 2002 and who knows how much more now.


A proposal for the second Transbay Tube (for BART) would place it roughly in the same area, crossing over to Alameda:

kkt

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2016, 03:37:08 PM »

A proposal for the second Transbay Tube (for BART) would place it roughly in the same area, crossing over to Alameda:



When is that concept from?  At some stages, they've talked about combining a road bridge with another BART tube.
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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2016, 08:38:45 PM »

A proposal for the second Transbay Tube (for BART) would place it roughly in the same area, crossing over to Alameda:



When is that concept from?  At some stages, they've talked about combining a road bridge with another BART tube.


December 2014.

kkt

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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2016, 08:45:01 AM »

Hm.  Sort of a surprising route.  I would have thought they'd just add extra tracks from the Oakland Y to S.F.  The upper deck of the Market St. subway was originally designed for BART, they could build another subway for the Muni Light Rail, say down Mission St., and then use the upper deck for BART.

They should also not make a big expansion of BART's unique rail technology.  The track gauge used nowhere else except India makes every bit of track and every time they want to buy new cars cost much more.  The Richmond District should get rail, but it should be light rail like the rest of S.F., and Alameda if rail service is built there.
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Re: Proposed but never built bridges
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2016, 10:02:40 AM »

When the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel was being proposed, Robert Moses pushed for a suspension bridge instead:

http://www.nycroads.com/crossings/brooklyn-battery/

Robert Moses once described a tunnel as "a tiled vehicular bathroom."
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