Underwater Roundabout

[roadman65]

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/faroe-islands-underwater-roundabout?fbclid=IwAR2x6d-q8QH4XxHuQj9tjucDXjeAjAPdgpv4o7WdnE7DQ7iHYDrh3FwJsng

[aboges26]

That is wild!  How does their government / economy support tunnels of this extent??

[Joe The Dragon]

That is wild!  How does their government / economy support tunnels of this extent??

toll road

[froggie]

That is wild!  How does their government / economy support tunnels of this extent??

toll road

It's not just that it's tolled.  Tunneling costs are considerably lower in Europe than they are in the U.S.

[Chris]

The tunneling cost varies substantially by region. The Alps have softer rocks with more water leakage so tunnels there are more expensive than in Scandinavia, Faroe Islands and Iceland, where granite rock is common and cheap tunnel blasting is possible. They typically do not use tunnel boring machines, but blast their way through, which requires fewer workers, which is quite relevant in Scandinavia where labor cost is very high.

The EU has issued directives on tunnel safety standards. They are now finding out that upgrading all tunnels to those standards is quite expensive. Tunnel rehabilitations tend to take much longer than 10-15 years ago, in particular in the Alps. Tunnel safety systems testing has also become very complex and time-consuming. It's not uncommon for a tunnel to be completed but not be put into service for another 6-9-12 months due to the testing of all systems.

[Rothman]

Ah yes, cheap blasting through granite.

See Hoosac Tunnel.

[jeffandnicole]

We got an underwater roundabout right here.  The Brooklawn Circle (NJ) floods nearly every time we have a good rain, or a higher than normal tide in the Delaware River.

https://www.gloucestercitynews.net/clearysnotebook/2013/01/3-column-32-point-arial-blacknorcross-says-statewill-fix-floodingat-brooklawn-circleby-sara-martinogloucester-city-newsi.html

https://www.nj.com/south-jersey-voices/2012/12/editorial_makeover_needed_wher.html

Cost:  $0!   

[Ketchup99]

That is wild!  How does their government / economy support tunnels of this extent??

toll road

It's not just that it's tolled.  Tunneling costs are considerably lower in Europe than they are in the U.S.

I've noticed this - it seems like in mountainous areas, tunnels are always the go-to. But why is it so much cheaper there?

[kphoger]

I've noticed this - it seems like in mountainous areas, tunnels are always the go-to. But why is it so much cheaper there?

In the last article I read about that, the authors stated that they were unable to account for all of the price discrepancy, and some of it remains a mystery.

[jeffandnicole]

I've noticed this - it seems like in mountainous areas, tunnels are always the go-to. But why is it so much cheaper there?

In the last article I read about that, the authors stated that they were unable to account for all of the price discrepancy, and some of it remains a mystery.

Do they talk about the cost of insurance, safety, and other requirements the US has that other countries may not?  Heck, even those righteous people that demand pedestrian and bicycle detours be signed, even though it's horribly obvious no one is going to pay attention to it in a residential neighborhood where people are walking in the street anyway, is ultimately an increased cost to the construction project, and thus the taxpayer.

[kphoger]

Take the sources with a grain of salt, but...

The article referenced below is a response to an article published in the NYT about a project at Grand Central.  Below is a quote from that response:

A chapter in a textbook about megaproject construction states that "as a result of existing union agreements covering the eastern seaboard area of the United States, underground construction employs approximately four times the number of personnel as in similar jobs in Asia, Australia, or Europe."  European subway construction uses union labor, just like American construction, but the work rules that have accumulated over the decades permit higher productivity and fewer workers doing each task.

In the original NYT article is this:

Because most countries have nationalized health care, projects abroad do not have to fund worker health insurance. That might explain a tenth of the cost differences, contractors said.

Density ... regulations ... equipment ... [Land] and other types of construction "... sound like cop-outs,"  said Rob Muley, an executive at the John Holland engineering firm who has worked in Hong Kong and Singapore and visited the East Side Access project ...

In Paris, which has famously powerful unions, the review found the lower costs were the result of efficient staffing, fierce vendor competition and scant use of consultants.

In other parts of the world, companies bidding on transit projects typically add 10 percent to their estimated costs to account for profit, overhead and change orders, contractors in five continents said. Final profit is usually less than 5 percent of the total project cost ... Things are much different in New York ... First, the contractors said, the vendors add between 15 and 25 percent as an "M.T.A. Factor"  because of how hard it can be to work within the bureaucracy of the transit authority. Then they add 10 percent as a contingency for possible changes. And then they add another 10-12 percent on top of all that for profit and overhead.