Part of overpass on I-95 in NE Philly collapses after tanker fire

[Mr. Matté]

https://6abc.com/interstate-95-collapse-i-95-fire-philly-overpass-tanker/13368736/

Truck was under the overpass from northbound exit 30 to Cottman Avenue (Tacony neighborhood). Looks like this was a relatively new overpass (GSV shows it in by 2016) but I guess you can't exactly design for high temperature fires all the time.

[kalvado]

https://6abc.com/interstate-95-collapse-i-95-fire-philly-overpass-tanker/13368736/

Truck was under the overpass from northbound exit 30 to Cottman Avenue (Tacony neighborhood). Looks like this was a relatively new overpass (GSV shows it in by 2016) but I guess you can't exactly design for high temperature fires all the time.

While high (and low) temperature are pretty bad for steel, and hard to design for (cough... world trade center), I have a different question about all this.  I wonder if there was a reason for the driver to stop under the bridge? The only way to get where he ended up is by taking exit 30 from the highway.  Stopping literally 100 feet earlier would leave the fire burn in the open; pulling another 100' forward would be a fire in the middle of an intersection...
Of course, it's possible that driver noted something in a rear view during the turn off-ramp, and didn't think much about anything else...

[Dough4872]

https://6abc.com/interstate-95-collapse-i-95-fire-philly-overpass-tanker/13368736/

Truck was under the overpass from northbound exit 30 to Cottman Avenue (Tacony neighborhood). Looks like this was a relatively new overpass (GSV shows it in by 2016) but I guess you can't exactly design for high temperature fires all the time.

I wonder how they are gonna detour traffic around this. Gonna cause a lot of traffic issues for both local and long-distance traffic for an extended period

[hotdogPi]

and hard to design for (cough... world trade center)

Almost nothing can be designed for someone intentionally trying to destroy it. The World Trade Center in particular was designed to survive accidental hits for those intending to land at an airport in New York but encountering too much fog (i.e. fuel almost empty).

This tanker fire wasn't intentional, but it collapsed anyway.

[1995hoo]

Anybody know if this is interfering with train service? We're scheduled for the 11:20 Sunday morning Acela to DC. I'm not seeing anything about delays so far, but I don't have the best track record this year in that respect.

[Dough4872]

Anybody know if this is interfering with train service? We're scheduled for the 11:20 Sunday morning Acela to DC. I'm not seeing anything about delays so far, but I don't have the best track record this year in that respect.

I don't think train service is affected. See no alerts for SEPTA's Trenton Line which follows the NEC at this point.

[1995hoo]

Thanks. Back in March I got stuck in New York for an extra night when the Northeast Corridor was shut down for a fire, then in May I was on a train that was delayed about 45 minutes by fire department activity in Wilmington.

[kalvado]

and hard to design for (cough... world trade center)

Almost nothing can be designed for someone intentionally trying to destroy it. The World Trade Center in particular was designed to survive accidental hits for those intending to land at an airport in New York but encountering too much fog (i.e. fuel almost empty).

This tanker fire wasn't intentional, but it collapsed anyway.

If you will, a very tangential argument would be that WTC steel had fire protection (which failed on impact), while road bridges steel usually doesn't have any. I suspect cost (primarily extra weight of the structure) vs benefit (one accident in decade?) would  be on a wrong side... 

[Rothman]

and hard to design for (cough... world trade center)

Almost nothing can be designed for someone intentionally trying to destroy it. The World Trade Center in particular was designed to survive accidental hits for those intending to land at an airport in New York but encountering too much fog (i.e. fuel almost empty).

This tanker fire wasn't intentional, but it collapsed anyway.

If you will, a very tangential argument would be that WTC steel had fire protection, while road bridges steel usually doesn't. I suspect cost (primarily extra weight of the structure) vs benefit (one accident in decade?) would likely be on a wrong side...

WTC also used asbestos.  I wonder if people would approve of DOTs spraying all their bridges with the stuff.

[MASTERNC]

https://6abc.com/interstate-95-collapse-i-95-fire-philly-overpass-tanker/13368736/

Truck was under the overpass from northbound exit 30 to Cottman Avenue (Tacony neighborhood). Looks like this was a relatively new overpass (GSV shows it in by 2016) but I guess you can't exactly design for high temperature fires all the time.

I wonder how they are gonna detour traffic around this. Gonna cause a lot of traffic issues for both local and long-distance traffic for an extended period

Roosevelt Blvd is the closest option but that has a lot of traffic lights (and cameras).

I imagine many will try 276/476/76, but that will make 76 a nightmare.

Best way might be to just cross into NJ and back using the Whitman or Franklin bridges

[kalvado]

and hard to design for (cough... world trade center)

Almost nothing can be designed for someone intentionally trying to destroy it. The World Trade Center in particular was designed to survive accidental hits for those intending to land at an airport in New York but encountering too much fog (i.e. fuel almost empty).

This tanker fire wasn't intentional, but it collapsed anyway.

If you will, a very tangential argument would be that WTC steel had fire protection, while road bridges steel usually doesn't. I suspect cost (primarily extra weight of the structure) vs benefit (one accident in decade?) would likely be on a wrong side...

WTC also used asbestos.  I wonder if people would approve of DOTs spraying all their bridges with the stuff.

As far as I understand, today they are still spraying concrete on steel - and I would think without asbestos. Not sure if there are any other additives like mineral fiber, but  asbestos is definitely not there.

[Big John]

and hard to design for (cough... world trade center)

Almost nothing can be designed for someone intentionally trying to destroy it. The World Trade Center in particular was designed to survive accidental hits for those intending to land at an airport in New York but encountering too much fog (i.e. fuel almost empty).

This tanker fire wasn't intentional, but it collapsed anyway.

If you will, a very tangential argument would be that WTC steel had fire protection (which failed on impact), while road bridges steel usually doesn't hAVE ANY. I suspect cost (primarily extra weight of the structure) vs benefit (one accident in decade?) would  be on a wrong side... 

The consequences can be hard.  See I-85 in Atlanta.

[kalvado]

and hard to design for (cough... world trade center)

Almost nothing can be designed for someone intentionally trying to destroy it. The World Trade Center in particular was designed to survive accidental hits for those intending to land at an airport in New York but encountering too much fog (i.e. fuel almost empty).

This tanker fire wasn't intentional, but it collapsed anyway.

If you will, a very tangential argument would be that WTC steel had fire protection (which failed on impact), while road bridges steel usually doesn't hAVE ANY. I suspect cost (primarily extra weight of the structure) vs benefit (one accident in decade?) would  be on a wrong side... 

The consequences can be hard.  See I-85 in Atlanta.

Bridges are  bottlenecks of the network. They are pretty expensive, so there is  often no spare capacity. Any bridge failure is a problem, regardless of it's nature. Would fire protection make overall situation better, or would add a failure point (such as complicating inspections)? 

[kernals12]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

[LilianaUwU]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

The technology you keep trying to push is only good in an ideal world, Kernals.

[epzik8]

https://6abc.com/interstate-95-collapse-i-95-fire-philly-overpass-tanker/13368736/

Truck was under the overpass from northbound exit 30 to Cottman Avenue (Tacony neighborhood). Looks like this was a relatively new overpass (GSV shows it in by 2016) but I guess you can't exactly design for high temperature fires all the time.

I wonder how they are gonna detour traffic around this. Gonna cause a lot of traffic issues for both local and long-distance traffic for an extended period

13? Yeah, it'll be disastrous.

[ARMOURERERIC]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

could the new overpass deck be built off to the side on top platforms while the existing deck is demoed, like the US 1 work in Connecticut over 95 there? 

[kalvado]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

1. Assess damage
2. Design repair
3. Remove old structure
4. Contract vendor
5. Vendor constructs replacement structure
...
...
10. Install replacement in just 2 days.

[kernals12]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

The technology you keep trying to push is only good in an ideal world, Kernals.

https://www.penndot.pa.gov/about-us/StateTransportationInnovationCouncil/Innovations/Pages/ABC.aspx

ABC simplifies and accelerates bridge construction. It allows bridges to be replaced within 48 to 72 hours and can reduce planning and bridge construction efforts, as well as project costs.

[LilianaUwU]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

The technology you keep trying to push is only good in an ideal world, Kernals.

Impact font memes in 2023. Sure, buddy.

[kalvado]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

The technology you keep trying to push is only good in an ideal world, Kernals.

https://www.penndot.pa.gov/about-us/StateTransportationInnovationCouncil/Innovations/Pages/ABC.aspx

ABC simplifies and accelerates bridge construction. It allows bridges to be replaced within 48 to 72 hours and can reduce planning and bridge construction efforts, as well as project costs.

That time is an on-site install time, which doesn't include any prep work. You can get a new fridge installed within an hour from the moment delivery truck rolls into the driveway. Doesn't mean you can order a fridge for same-day delivery, and date stamp on delivered one would probably be at least a year before.

Sincerely,

Captain Obvious

[kalvado]

They say the bridge will be closed for weeks. But can't they use accelerated bridge construction and replace it in a day or two?

The technology you keep trying to push is only good in an ideal world, Kernals.

Impact font memes in 2023. Sure, buddy.

Can you make it even smaller?

[Dough4872]

I wonder if SEPTA is gonna add commuter train service along the Trenton Line to help commuters who will be affected by the extended closure of I-95.

[famartin]

PA decided that after 5 years, they didn't like I-95 being complete after all 

And of course, this isn't their first time...
https://billypenn.com/2018/07/13/two-decades-ago-10000-tires-caught-fire-in-port-richmond-and-melted-part-of-i-95/

[Ted$8roadFan]

This happened in 2008, although it wasn't as serious as today:


https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23684974