Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[StogieGuy7]

Linking the VA Tidewater area with RDU is a fine idea as far as I'm concerned. The Norfolk/Chesapeake/VA Beach area is the largest population area I can think of that is such a dead end on the interstate system. This would help to alleviate that. Also beneficial is this routing provides a lot of smallish cities with needed access to the rest of their state. What I don't get is (and it's admittedly OCD) why in the heck they gave this new freeway the designation of I-87. For one thing, it's a redundancy (which is allowed, but still unnecessary). And, it's a routing that is 90+% east-west and at most 10% north-south. They should have assigned it I-46 or I-48.  That would have fit perfectly into pattern and been an identifier unique to this routing, rather than sharing a number with a better known interstate that serves New York City, Newburgh, Albany, and the Adirondacks.

[The Ghostbuster]

Aside from its duplicate number, the southern Interstate 87 (existing and future) is hardly an anomaly of the Interstate system. Interstate 85 runs more east-west than north-south. Interstates 26 and 82 are more north-south than east-west. Interstates 24, 44, 59, 74 and 81 are diagonal, and plenty of east-west Interstates have north-south segments and vice versa. I don't mind the Interstate 87 designation. Leave the potential 46 and 48 designations for the US 412 future Interstate corridor.

[StogieGuy7]

Aside from its duplicate number, the southern Interstate 87 (existing and future) is hardly an anomaly of the Interstate system. Interstate 85 runs more east-west than north-south. Interstates 26 and 82 are more north-south than east-west. Interstates 24, 44, 59, 74 and 81 are diagonal, and plenty of east-west Interstates have north-south segments and vice versa. I don't mind the Interstate 87 designation. Leave the potential 46 and 48 designations for the US 412 future Interstate corridor.

While that's true, this one is almost entirely east-west and hardly diagonal at all. A perfect candidate for an even numbered designation.

[WashuOtaku]

While that's true, this one is almost entirely east-west and hardly diagonal at all. A perfect candidate for an even numbered designation.

Will go north-south when it reaches Williamston. I don't mind, routes are not perfect north-south, east-west.

[sprjus4]

The route is 120 miles east to west, and 70 miles north to south. While I agree an east-west designation would have worked better, it's not like fully east-west with no north-south component. The initial "north-south"  planned for I-587, is a good example for a fully east-west route. Thankfully, NCDOT went ahead and posted east-west for that one. North-south made no sense there. For I-87, there is some north-south gain. North to Virginia, south to North Carolina, etc.

And all of US-17 is sign-posted for north-south.

[Jaxrunner]

Does VA have any plans in the next ten years to extend the freeway from VA 165 all the way down to the border? I know there is a light at Grassfield Parkway and south of there it is mostly a rural 4 lane highway bypassing the old US 17, which is now a trail. I hope NC can finish widening US 17 in Eastern NC. US 17 connects Camp Lejeune with the Navy Bases in the Hampton Roads Area.

[sprjus4]

Does VA have any plans in the next ten years to extend the freeway from VA 165 all the way down to the border? I know there is a light at Grassfield Parkway and south of there it is mostly a rural 4 lane highway bypassing the old US 17, which is now a trail. I hope NC can finish widening US 17 in Eastern NC. US 17 connects Camp Lejeune with the Navy Bases in the Hampton Roads Area.

The Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization (HRTPO) recognizes the existence of I-87 and did develop a cost estimate - around $400 million (I’m assuming that also included some upgrades to the I-464 interchange), however there is no currently funded projects to construct these. The city also recognizes its existence and wants it in the future, though I’m not sure how they are going to incorporate the Grassfield area with constructing interchanges at those two signals.

The city of Chesapeake embarked on a major $350 million project to widen the 2 lane Dominion Blvd north of VA-165 that had a drawbridge over the Elizabeth River to a fully controlled access 4 lane freeway with a high rise bridge (paid with tolls) that was wrapped up around 6 years ago. That project also included widening US-17 between the new 2005 alignment and VA-165 to a four lane divided highway that kept two signalized intersections at Grassfield Pkwy and Scenic Pkwy. Both of these massive projects were fully built and managed by the city - not VDOT. The freeway portion north of VA-165 appears to be built to full interstate standards (full control of access, 46 foot median, 10 foot outside shoulder, 4 foot inside, etc.) and has a 60 mph design speed. The signage needs to be fixed significantly - but that’s a minor fix.

As for the new 2005 alignment of US-17 between a mile or so north of US-17 Business and the North Carolina state line (that did widen about 2 miles of the old road), it is a limited access divided highway with access breaks only at intersecting roadways. There are no traffic signals, the design speed is 60 mph, although driving it easily feels like a 70 mph rural interstate outside of the intersections.

The closest thing to an upgrade as of now, would be the planned interchange about a mile north of the state line to accommodate a new “mega site” industrial park. It wouldn’t close any existing intersections though - only provide a new access point. This is a good thing though - they originally planned a signalized intersection (by using an existing limited access break for the farm). By constructing a full interchange, you are preserving the free-follow nature of US-17 and its future upgradability. The city maintains all of US-17 south of I-64 (not VDOT) so they would be in charge of constructing this.

Here is a post I made a little while back in regard to this new interchange:

And the city (Chesapeake) is planning a mega site development near the North Carolina border, with the prospect of the interstate running alongside it in mind, but is planning to construct an at-grade signalized intersection on rural US-17 using one of the authorized breaks in limited access right of way currently used for farm access.

City Council approved this development last month and according to the latest report, the plan now calls for a grade-separated interchange to be constructed along US-17 for this "megasite" development. This would be located within the first mile or so of US-17 in Virginia just north of the North Carolina state line.

The following improvements will be provided as part of this development:

I. Primary Site Access- A grade-separated interchange will be constructed for the primary development access off Route 17. The final location will be approved by the City and VDOT to insure spacing of roadways consistent with access management plans and principles. These improvements will be constructed and operational prior to the first certificate of occupancy within the development unless approved otherwise by the Director of Development and Permits as a result of an approved TIA. The interchange will include the following:
             i. Sufficient number of lanes on the overpass (grade separation) to provide a LOS D or better.
             ii. Ramp lane quantities, Route 17 mainline diverge and merge lane lengths, and geometry in accordance with a City approved TIA and VDOT criteria. 
             iii. Signalization at the intersection of the access road overpass and the southbound on and off ramps as warranted.
             iv. Accommodations for pedestrian access and connectivity to the greatest extent possible.

All in all, I don’t see I-87 in Virginia getting completed any time soon, let alone the next decade. However, there is growth happening in northeastern North Carolina and traffic volumes are steadily rising on US-17. Camden County is planning to construct thousands of homes south of the border, and there’s decent development occurring down in Elizabeth City off the US-17 bypass interchange at NC-343. This, paired with the eventual construction on the North Carolina side of I-87 up to the border, especially once the entire corridor is built out to Raleigh in 20-30 years, may pressure VDOT to close the 13 mile “gap” in an otherwise fully controlled access 70 mph highway to I-95 South and Raleigh. But this is likely a couple decades away.

When upgrades eventually do come, they shouldn’t be too difficult. A few interchanges at some of the crossroads will be needed, along with a couple of more complex urban designs near Grassfield Pkwy and Scenic Pkwy. The cross-section would need to be widened slightly (the right shoulder is only 8 foot instead of the required 10), but otherwise meets interstate standards. It’s just a matter of funding… if Chesapeake and/or VDOT was smart, they would piecemeal it starting north and working south, little individual interchange projects instead of a single large-expense upgrade.

Either way, again, 20 years out probably for completion. There are simply way higher priorities in the area, including a project on the 2045 Long Range Transportation Plan to widen VA-168 to 6 lanes between I-464 and Hillcrest Pkwy, and a new / widened high rise bridge over the Intracoastal Waterway. The city is trying to also construct a new high rise bridge (65 foot vertical clearance, fixed span) over the same waterway along Centerville Turnpike that will cost over $300 million. Outside of the city’s scope (even though VA-168 is a city roadway technically, I would hope VDOT would oversee a major widening to a six lane urban freeway). VDOT is working on multi-billion dollar projects along I-64, I-664, and I-264, and eventually hopefully US-58.

[bob7374]

NCDOT has advertised for the May letting of 2 pavement rehabilitation contracts on US 64 (Future I-87) in Edgecombe County. TIP Project 6041 is from SR 1225 (Kingsboro Road) to NC 33 while I-6042 covers NC 33 to the Martin County line. While US 64 for all of the second and the eastern end of the first is already Interstate standard, at least as far as shoulders are concerned, cross sections in the plans for the first contract could indicate shoulder widening for non-standard sections of the roadway. If someone with more experience reading plans wants to check this out, the plans are available at:
https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/dsplan/2023%20Highway%20Letting/05-16-23/Plans%20and%20Proposals/EDGECOMBE_47990.3.1_I-6041_C204818/Standard%20PDF%20Files/

[sprjus4]

I can't speak for exactly what they're going to do - but if I had to guess, it's probably just resurfacing the existing pavement, with no shoulder widening.

You are correct that the eastern end of the project, then extending all the way east to US-17, is built to full interstate standards, but this entire project limits, plus west all the way to Knightdale, is older and has a substandard right shoulder.

[Papa Emeritus]

I can't speak for exactly what they're going to do - but if I had to guess, it's probably just resurfacing the existing pavement, with no shoulder widening.

You are correct that the eastern end of the project, then extending all the way east to US-17, is built to full interstate standards, but this entire project limits, plus west all the way to Knightdale, is older and has a substandard right shoulder.

On Sunday, I drove US 64 from Manteo to where it becomes I 87. In a portion of the construction zone, I saw stakes in the grass well to the side of where the shoulder ends. To me, this would imply that they're planning to widen the shoulders to interstate standards.

[WashuOtaku]

I can't speak for exactly what they're going to do - but if I had to guess, it's probably just resurfacing the existing pavement, with no shoulder widening.

You are correct that the eastern end of the project, then extending all the way east to US-17, is built to full interstate standards, but this entire project limits, plus west all the way to Knightdale, is older and has a substandard right shoulder.

On Sunday, I drove US 64 from Manteo to where it becomes I 87. In a portion of the construction zone, I saw stakes in the grass well to the side of where the shoulder ends. To me, this would imply that they're planning to widen the shoulders to interstate standards.

That's been the plan.

[sprjus4]

I can't speak for exactly what they're going to do - but if I had to guess, it's probably just resurfacing the existing pavement, with no shoulder widening.

You are correct that the eastern end of the project, then extending all the way east to US-17, is built to full interstate standards, but this entire project limits, plus west all the way to Knightdale, is older and has a substandard right shoulder.

On Sunday, I drove US 64 from Manteo to where it becomes I 87. In a portion of the construction zone, I saw stakes in the grass well to the side of where the shoulder ends. To me, this would imply that they're planning to widen the shoulders to interstate standards.

That's been the plan.

That's the ultimate plan, but many recent repaving jobs along the US-17 / US-64 corridor do not represent this. They are merely surfacing projects with no shoulder widening.

Perhaps this one will actually be in the right direction though.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

[sprjus4]

That's good to see they're actually including shoulder widening in this!

I'm not sure why projects have not. For example, US-17 Elizabeth City bypass was resurfaced two years ago, and while it's a nice ride, there's still only 4 ft paved shoulders.

If US-64 through Rocky Mount was upgraded, it would allow approximately 51 miles of freeway between I-95 and US-17 to be signed as I-87. Not to mention, the significant added safety benefits of having a full paved shoulder for emergency vehicles, disabled vehicles, greater margin for error at high speeds, etc. In particular, especially beneficial for a more urban freeway segment such as near Rocky Mount.

[bob7374]

That's good to see they're actually including shoulder widening in this!

I'm not sure why projects have not. For example, US-17 Elizabeth City bypass was resurfaced two years ago, and while it's a nice ride, there's still only 4 ft paved shoulders.

If US-64 through Rocky Mount was upgraded, it would allow approximately 51 miles of freeway between I-95 and US-17 to be signed as I-87. Not to mention, the significant added safety benefits of having a full paved shoulder for emergency vehicles, disabled vehicles, greater margin for error at high speeds, etc. In particular, especially beneficial for a more urban freeway segment such as near Rocky Mount.

This is what is happening, at least with the shoulders, assuming what is seen above takes place along the entire construction corridor. The project seen above (I-6046) starts at Exit 463, Red Oak, just to the west of I-95 and runs 14 miles to Kingsboro Road. Another project, just awarded and discussed above, goes from Kingsboro Road to NC 33 and includes the remaining section of 3' wide shoulders. There will still have to be other upgrades along US 64 though before they can sign it as I-87.

[Henry]

That's good to see they're actually including shoulder widening in this!

I'm not sure why projects have not. For example, US-17 Elizabeth City bypass was resurfaced two years ago, and while it's a nice ride, there's still only 4 ft paved shoulders.

If US-64 through Rocky Mount was upgraded, it would allow approximately 51 miles of freeway between I-95 and US-17 to be signed as I-87. Not to mention, the significant added safety benefits of having a full paved shoulder for emergency vehicles, disabled vehicles, greater margin for error at high speeds, etc. In particular, especially beneficial for a more urban freeway segment such as near Rocky Mount.

This is what is happening, at least with the shoulders, assuming what is seen above takes place along the entire construction corridor. The project seen above (I-6046) starts at Exit 463, Red Oak, just to the west of I-95 and runs 14 miles to Kingsboro Road. Another project, just awarded and discussed above, goes from Kingsboro Road to NC 33 and includes the remaining section of 3' wide shoulders. There will still have to be other upgrades along US 64 though before they can sign it as I-87.

Then there's the issue of US 17 and what happens across the state line. My guess is that no more upgrades will be made until VA decides on a route that will not disrupt the swamp. Continuing north on US 17 should be a no-brainer, but the Dominion Blvd area is so built up that an expensive undertaking will be required to complete I-87. And cutting east to VA 168 is a nonstarter, especially because of the environmentally sensitive areas that the interstate would have to cut through, even though VA 168 is freeway-grade; more likely, it may end up an I-x87, if any such designation is ever considered. We may not know for several more years, if not decades.

[sprjus4]

This is what is happening, at least with the shoulders, assuming what is seen above takes place along the entire construction corridor. The project seen above (I-6046) starts at Exit 463, Red Oak, just to the west of I-95 and runs 14 miles to Kingsboro Road. Another project, just awarded and discussed above, goes from Kingsboro Road to NC 33 and includes the remaining section of 3' wide shoulders. There will still have to be other upgrades along US 64 though before they can sign it as I-87.

I'm going to have to get down there and check it out in the near future... what other upgrades are to take place? To make it at least up to minimum interstate standards in order to be sign-posted.

[sprjus4]

Then there's the issue of US 17 and what happens across the state line. My guess is that no more upgrades will be made until VA decides on a route that will not disrupt the swamp. Continuing north on US 17 should be a no-brainer, but the Dominion Blvd area is so built up that an expensive undertaking will be required to complete I-87. And cutting east to VA 168 is a nonstarter, especially because of the environmentally sensitive areas that the interstate would have to cut through, even though VA 168 is freeway-grade; more likely, it may end up an I-x87, if any such designation is ever considered. We may not know for several more years, if not decades.

While this is certainly an issue to be considered in the long term, it wouldn't impact NCDOT sign-posting I-87 between I-95 and US-17.

I feel like it reasonably would extend north along US-17. While the Dominion Blvd corridor between Grassfield Pkwy and Scenic Pkwy is being developed, there is still an adequate enough space to "squeeze"  one or two urban interchanges in that area. The physical roadway itself still maintains limited access and has a large 50-60 ft median, and apart from the intersections, has an interstate highway cross-section (fully paved shoulders, wide lanes, 60 mph design speed, etc.).

Outside of this under a mile stretch between Scenic Pkwy and Grassfield Pkwy, the rest of the roadway to south is easily upgradable and limited access, and north of there is already interstate standard freeway.

I-87 will extend north along US-17 from North Carolina and tie into I-64. I'm not holding my breath about a connector between VA-168 and US-17, even though it would be a viable route to have. It doesn't make sense at all for the main I-87 to follow, and VA-168, while freeway, would need upgrades in areas to meet interstate standards. Not to mention the first two miles in Virginia, which arguably need to be upgraded anyways, due to Outer Banks peak traffic in the summer.

[Strider]

Curious... is the shoulder widening project only from I-95 to near Tarboro, or does it also include the one from the current end of I-87 in Knightdale towards I-95 as well?

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Did some field verification yesterday. The shoulder widening is currently only taking place between Thomas Rd and Kingsboro Rd. I did not see any sediment fencing anywhere else throughout the project limits. It looks like the shoulder widening was an addendum to the original contract and the "clearing and grubbing for widening" line item is only for 6.5 acres. At 10 ft. wide, that is approximately 2.68 miles per direction, which is around the distance between those two roads.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the shoulder widening is pretty limited.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Crappy evening photos with bug splatter from 64, but showing what appears to be the westbound limit of the shoulder widening at the Thomas Rd. overpass.

[bob7374]

NCDOT press release about pavement rehabilitation along US 64 in Edgecombe County, includes 'some' shoulder widening, to be completed by the fall of 2024:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-31-us-64-edgecombe-repaving.aspx

[sprjus4]

^ Of the 20 mile segment being resurfaced, 12 miles is already built to full interstate standards with paved shoulders. Only the western 8 miles is older freeway with reduced 4 ft shoulders. Hopefully, if they're smart, they will widen those 8 miles to include full width shoulders. I'm not holding my breath though, given past precedent.

Full width shoulders not only bring the highway up to interstate standards, they provide a safer roadway by allowing a vehicle to safely come to a stop (on pavement).

[vdeane]

If they're doing something similar to NYSDOT's 1R resurfacing projects, they might not be able to.  Our 1R projects have to stay in the existing pavement width; anything that goes outside bumps the project into a 2R project, which costs a lot more in terms of both money and staff time, because then a lot of other things need to be addressed too.  If NCDOT has anything similar to NYSDOT's 1R/2R/3R system for paving projects, that might be why they don't widen the shoulders with the resurfacing.

[LM117]

A section of US-64 East between Robersonville and Everetts will close on June 15 for a major bridge rehabilitation project over the Huskanaw Swamp. It's expected to reopen at the end of September.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-12-us-64-closure.aspx