Why do I-85, most of I-64, and I-95 in Virginia(although because of the HOT lanes only the stretch from Fredericksburg to Richmond) all have thick tree medians in the middle of the road that stretch miles? Were those interstates purposely built like that for some reason? It seems to be very unique.
The only interstate that I can think of that has a VA like tree median not in VA is I-26 in SC near Charleston, but I understand SCDOT is cutting down that tree median because they think its a "Safety Hazzard".
In my personal opinion I have neutral feelings towards these tree medians. At first the trees can be very calm and relaxing are a nice change from city traffic(Used on VA-288), but after a while if overused(I-85) and all I've been looking at is nothing but trees for an hour, it can really boring and I begin to feel locked in by them.
Why is this common only on VA Interstates and if not, where else? How does anyone else feel about them? Should they stay or should they go?
I kind of like it at night because they help mask headlight glare from traffic going the other way (compared to, say, I-95 in Florida). Of course trees also mean deer risk.
I guess because I've spent so much of my life in Virginia it's never struck me as odd at all.
It's not as rare as one may think. Lengthy segments of Interstate in AL, MS, FL (mainly I-10), NH, NY, and VT all have such wide tree-filled medians. Though Mississippi in recent years has also started cutting lengthy swaths of trees down due to their perception of FHWA safety guidelines.
Also happens on a few rural Kentucky interstates, specifically I-64 between Shelbyville and Frankfort -- which is also heavily populated with deer.
I suspect the auto body shop lobby got to the highway designers. If it was within my power to do so, I'd order every freeway median clear-cut.
QuoteI suspect the auto body shop lobby got to the highway designers.
Nice conspiracy theory, but not the case in my realms of experience.
The trees make it easier for cops to hide and set up speed traps. :spin:
Quote from: LM117 on July 15, 2016, 02:01:22 PM
The trees make it easier for cops to hide and set up speed traps. :spin:
Not as much as some people think. Often a cop will be parked back into the trees perpendicular to the road. Can't run much of a speedtrap that way unless you plan to pull out and pace people. Radar doesn't give an accurate speed reading from that angle.
Yeah, I haven't seen a speed trap on the tree-lined part of 288 in a few years. (Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, obviously.)
Even in congested NJ, there are highways like that in some areas. The NJ Turnpike, even though today it's basically one long 118 mile jersey barrier up the center median, actually had some wider, maybe even tree filled medians way back when.
The Garden State Parkway was purposely built with large medians because that's what a Parkway was envisioned to be - a nice, calm ride to the various shore points. It was never envisioned to be a heavily travelled, 10 - 15 lane wide hellhole with actual speeds way over the speed limit.
295 has some tree-heavy medians. A stretch of highway between the former rest areas around MP 49 and Exit 52 is actually a very pretty, scenic stretch of highway, especially in the fall.
NJ 55's median was originally vastly clear-cut, with the intention of a putting a rail line in the middle. As that rail line was never built, they allowed the median to grow wild, and is now a dense, thick forest of trees.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 15, 2016, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 15, 2016, 02:01:22 PM
The trees make it easier for cops to hide and set up speed traps. :spin:
Not as much as some people think. Often a cop will be parked back into the trees perpendicular to the road. Can't run much of a speedtrap that way unless you plan to pull out and pace people. Radar doesn't give an accurate speed reading from that angle.
Yep. All you need is a small hill, and cops can hide in plain view at the crest. Or in the shadow of an overpass. Anymore, I've seen cops hide in plain view on straight, level, clear roadways. People zone out while driving (or text, or play certain app-based games), and will pass that cop without ever knowing he was there.
Deer: Are deer that smart? So a deer is willing to run across two lanes to get to what it thinks is the woods on the other side, but would be unwilling to run across two lanes, a median, and two more lanes? I would have to see the insurance companies' data on that one.
Safety: Yes, if we are talking about total accidents, because obviously it is possible to hit a grass median and do no damage to the car. But, the worst accident, which is the cross over accident, cannot happen with tree medians. This is why many states are installing cable barriers in medians. Again, I would want to see what the insurance companies say.
Cops: All traffic enforcement is illigitimate, of course, but yes, the cop hidden in the median is a common trick.
Driving: It is not just in Virginia, and it does get borsome after a while.
In Pennsylvania, I-80 (along its entire length), I-81 (along its most of its length, the exceptions being south of Carlisle and between Harrisburg and I-78), I-70 (south/east of the PA Turnpike), I-84 (along its entire length), I-380 (along its entire length), and US 322 (between the Lewistown narrows and the Susquehanna River–technically not an interstate but built to interstate standards of the time in that area) have long lengths of tree-filled, wide, variable-width median. I guess you could say that the majority of PA interstates and interstate-grade highways are like this. So like froggie said, it's not just Virginia.
The one great exception to the variable-width median in PA is of course the PA Turnpike, which except for a few locations features a narrow, constant-width median along its entire length, both main trunk and Northeast Extension.
A lot of the forested mileage features median that was left at or near original grade, either higher or lower than the roadway, so you often have duel cuts with trees towering between the opposing carriageways. Especially dramatic is where there are tall cuts beside a very high median with trees atop. In some spots, like I-99 through the Steam Valley area and some locations on I-81 in central PA, opposing carriageways are on opposite sides of a dramatic valley.
I love the variable-width, forested medians. I find they produce the largest variety of scenery and views while I'm driving, which helps to decrease the likelihood of so-called highway narcosis. I also think it's just plain more fun to drive.
Regarding the cops, so much is common sense. Cops don't like sitting in the hot sun any more than anyone else. On days like yesterday (heat index 106° here), the shade under an overpass is a prime speedtrap location.
I don't really favor unnecessarily cutting down trees in general, not just as to highway medians. I hate the way new housing developments now first see the land clear-cut. I know it's cheaper and easier for the builder, but I hate seeing big old trees cut down like that.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
Why do I-85, most of I-64, and I-95 in Virginia(although because of the HOT lanes only the stretch from Fredericksburg to Richmond) all have thick tree medians in the middle of the road that stretch miles? Were those interstates purposely built like that for some reason? It seems to be very unique.
The only interstate that I can think of that has a VA like tree median not in VA is I-26 in SC near Charleston, but I understand SCDOT is cutting down that tree median because they think its a "Safety Hazzard".
In my personal opinion I have neutral feelings towards these tree medians. At first the trees can be very calm and relaxing are a nice change from city traffic(Used on VA-288), but after a while if overused(I-85) and all I've been looking at is nothing but trees for an hour, it can really boring and I begin to feel locked in by them.
Why is this common only on VA Interstates and if not, where else? How does anyone else feel about them? Should they stay or should they go?
It's really not so unique. I-75 in northern lower Michigan is very similar and very scenic.
Doesn't that median also get... very wide in areas? I am thinking that the medians along I-64 in parts of Virginia are 80' with trees filling the center.
Quote from: mhh on July 15, 2016, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
Why do I-85, most of I-64, and I-95 in Virginia(although because of the HOT lanes only the stretch from Fredericksburg to Richmond) all have thick tree medians in the middle of the road that stretch miles? Were those interstates purposely built like that for some reason? It seems to be very unique.
The only interstate that I can think of that has a VA like tree median not in VA is I-26 in SC near Charleston, but I understand SCDOT is cutting down that tree median because they think its a "Safety Hazzard".
In my personal opinion I have neutral feelings towards these tree medians. At first the trees can be very calm and relaxing are a nice change from city traffic(Used on VA-288), but after a while if overused(I-85) and all I've been looking at is nothing but trees for an hour, it can really boring and I begin to feel locked in by them.
Why is this common only on VA Interstates and if not, where else? How does anyone else feel about them? Should they stay or should they go?
It's really not so unique. I-75 in northern lower Michigan is very similar and very scenic.
Not to mention other areas along I-96 and I-69. I-94 is much older, and lacks the wider medians.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
Why do I-85, most of I-64, and I-95 in Virginia(although because of the HOT lanes only the stretch from Fredericksburg to Richmond) all have thick tree medians in the middle of the road that stretch miles? Were those interstates purposely built like that for some reason? It seems to be very unique.
The only interstate that I can think of that has a VA like tree median not in VA is I-26 in SC near Charleston, but I understand SCDOT is cutting down that tree median because they think its a "Safety Hazzard".
In my personal opinion I have neutral feelings towards these tree medians. At first the trees can be very calm and relaxing are a nice change from city traffic(Used on VA-288), but after a while if overused(I-85) and all I've been looking at is nothing but trees for an hour, it can really boring and I begin to feel locked in by them.
Why is this common only on VA Interstates and if not, where else? How does anyone else feel about them? Should they stay or should they go?
A lot of the sections that have trees in the median were built in the early years of the Interstate Highway System. More modern interstates that have trees in the middle are now located far enough away from the roadway in case they collapse on the roadway.
As for South Carolina cutting trees down on I-26, they say its for safety but also a cheaper alternative to what really needs to be done to the highway and that is to bring it up to current Interstate standards.
I love tree-medians or grade-medians. You can drive with your highs on the entire time and not have to worry about blinding oncoming traffic.
There are some off interstate non freeway roads with trees in the median. US 301 through Fort AP Hill for one and that is in VA.
US 19 & 98 from Lebanon Station to Chiefland in Florida has (or had) a tree lined median.
US 13 from Princess Anne, MD to Fruitland, MD has a tree lined center.
US 50 from Salisbury, MD to US 113 just west of Ocean City.
Anyway, headlight glare is the main reason, and to give you that feeling of being on a Parkway.
Also I-287 in Northern NJ has stretches near Bedminster and in Bridgewater there is a section from US 202/206 to US 22 that has it wide.
I-78 has it between I-287 and the Watchung Reservation in Berkley Heights.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
Why do I-85, most of I-64, and I-95 in Virginia(although because of the HOT lanes only the stretch from Fredericksburg to Richmond) all have thick tree medians in the middle of the road that stretch miles? Were those interstates purposely built like that for some reason? It seems to be very unique.
The only interstate that I can think of that has a VA like tree median not in VA is I-26 in SC near Charleston, but I understand SCDOT is cutting down that tree median because they think its a "Safety Hazzard".
In my personal opinion I have neutral feelings towards these tree medians. At first the trees can be very calm and relaxing are a nice change from city traffic(Used on VA-288), but after a while if overused(I-85) and all I've been looking at is nothing but trees for an hour, it can really boring and I begin to feel locked in by them.
Why is this common only on VA Interstates and if not, where else? How does anyone else feel about them? Should they stay or should they go?
The technical term for these widely-separated roadways is "bifurcated highway." When they were first built in VA (around 1970 more or less) they were thought to be a great advance in safety.
The ultimate bifurcation might be on I-85 near Lexington NC where the two roadways actually cross over one another (https://goo.gl/maps/fEvvcH9ew1p). This means the vehicles going the opposite direction are now on your right instead of your left, but you can't see them for the trees. This design enabled NC to place a rest area in the middle of the bifurcation, with exits on the right for both directions.
I-70 in Frederick and Washington Counties in Maryland has long sections of wide and treed median.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 16, 2016, 09:53:27 AM
I-70 in Frederick and Washington Counties in Maryland has long sections of wide and treed median.
There is also a large tree lined median on I-95 in New Jersey around Trenton.
Interstate 30 has heavy-wooded medians for much of its length. It's so wide in places that crossing roads require separate overpass bridges for each lane.
Quote from: MASTERNC on July 16, 2016, 09:23:51 PM
There is also a large tree lined median on I-95 in New Jersey around Trenton.
That treed portion of the median was actually supposed to be the interchange for I-95 to continue north along the once proposed Somerset Freeway to I-287. It's hard to tell now, but I remember the original intent being more obvious at one time with grading and parts of stub ramps.
I-79 has it in northern Pennsylvania.
I personally love the Fredericksburg-Richmond ones on I-95.
Before the widening project, the freeway section of US 3 in Massachusetts between Burlington and Tyngsborough had a thick tree-lined median.
I always thought that thick tree-filled medians were in places where the road was built one carriageway at a time instead of clearing the entire ROW. I have no proof for this one way or the other, though.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 09, 2016, 01:02:08 PM
I always thought that thick tree-filled medians were in places where the road was built one carriageway at a time instead of clearing the entire ROW. I have no proof for this one way or the other, though.
Definitely not the case on I-95 from Caroline County in the south most of the way to Prince William County in the north (though some of the median in Stafford and Prince William Counties has been taken for the reversible HOV/Toll lanes).
I think it's to prevent glare. I've noticed that while driving on I-70 at night with the tree lined sections, not a lot of glare comes through the trees (which means that you could theoretically use high beams).
My only problem is with not being able to see signs for businesses or seeing cool crap. It sucks when i can't see Kings Dominion from I-95, Intimidator 305 would look cool from there.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 10, 2016, 01:39:37 AM
It sucks when i can't see Kings Dominion from I-95, Intimidator 305 would look cool from there.
Don't worry...half the lights are broken anyway!!!
QuoteI think it's to prevent glare.
That may be part of it, but many of these wider tree medians are the result of topography.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 10, 2016, 06:24:49 AM
Don't worry...half the lights are broken anyway!!!
OT. Really? I have only been there once, but I used to go to its sister parks in Cincinnati and Charlotte, under the old managements (first Taft than Paramount) all the time, and found the upkeep and cleanliness to be very good. Close to Disney level. A great contrast to parks owned by Six Flags, which, IMHO, are generally dirty and in disrepair.
Have not been since Cedar Fair took over, but would be sad to hear they are letting the places go.
Quote from: SP Cook on August 10, 2016, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 10, 2016, 06:24:49 AM
Don't worry...half the lights are broken anyway!!!
OT. Really? I have only been there once, but I used to go to its sister parks in Cincinnati and Charlotte, under the old managements (first Taft than Paramount) all the time, and found the upkeep and cleanliness to be very good. Close to Disney level. A great contrast to parks owned by Six Flags, which, IMHO, are generally dirty and in disrepair.
Have not been since Cedar Fair took over, but would be sad to hear they are letting the places go.
For what seemed like many years when we would drive down overnight in the way to Florida, their main sign visible from 95 always had several lighting issues. It's been about 9 months since our last trip though!
While other states may also have wide tree-lined segments on certain highways, Virginia is still pretty rare in at least one aspect: it has one of the only beltways that has such a median...
Much of VA 288 between VA 145 (Chester Rd.) and Commonwealth Pkwy just south of US 360 has this median, along with much of I-295 between the James River and I-64 west of Richmond (Exit 53).
The only other belt I know of is I-275 Cincinnati, which has brief segments of tree lined median in two locations.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 16, 2016, 02:18:38 AM
There are some off interstate non freeway roads with trees in the median. US 301 through Fort AP Hill for one and that is in VA.
Yep. You can also add a lot of US 60 east of Richmond between VA 249 and VA 30, as well as much of US 460 between Blackstone and Petersburg.
Quote from: plain on November 17, 2016, 11:30:25 PM
Much of VA 288 between VA 145 (Chester Rd.) and Commonwealth Centre Pkwy just south of US 360 has this median, along with much of I-295 between the James River and I-64 west of Richmond (Exit 53).
I-295 also has a brief section of a tree-median between VA 36 (Exit 9) and the Appomattox River. (more specifically the SR 645 (River Rd) overpass).
I-287 in NJ has it in sections as well.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on November 18, 2016, 07:02:54 AM
Quote from: plain on November 17, 2016, 11:30:25 PM
Much of VA 288 between VA 145 (Chester Rd.) and Commonwealth Centre Pkwy just south of US 360 has this median, along with much of I-295 between the James River and I-64 west of Richmond (Exit 53).
I-295 also has a brief section of a tree-median between VA 36 (Exit 9) and the Appomattox River. (more specifically the SR 645 (River Rd) overpass).
Yes. Forgot about that. And I completely forgot about another beltway, which also happens to be in Virginia ... the Hampton Roads Beltway has tree-lined median in three spots (though briefly):
- I-64 between Exits 296 (US 17 North) and 299 (I-264 and I-664)
- I-664 between Exits 9 (US 17 and VA 164) and south of 10 (Pughsville Rd), and again between Exits 13 (US 13/58/460) and 15 (I-64 and I-264)
Also another non interstate to add to the list... US 13/58/460 between I-664 and the Suffolk Bypass. The Bypass itself also has it for a mile or so west of the split for the Business routes and again at the interchange with US 460 West/460 Business East
Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 16, 2016, 09:09:55 AMThe technical term for these widely-separated roadways is "bifurcated highway." When they were first built in VA (around 1970 more or less) they were thought to be a great advance in safety.
Bifurcate means "to divide or fork into two branches." Not that I'm in any way an arbiter of road-related terminology, but I use the term bifurcation to refer to a temporary increase, for aesthetic or engineering reasons, in the width of a median that's otherwise of a typical, lesser width. In most cases, the standard width was sixty feet or thereabouts (64 in my own state) during the heyday of Interstate construction. I think that every state has them, though policies toward how long, wide, frequent and degree to which the alignments of the two carriageways differ seem to vary between various states.
But what the OP is referring to, I think, is the adoption of a standard median width that's very large, 90 to 150 feet, enough to allow for the preexisting forests to be undisturbed by construction (even if the trees end up being cut down for whatever reason!). Virginia is one of several states that did this. Another is Tennessee, which... I'm fascinated with I-24 between Chattanooga and Nashville, so I did some checking on Google Earth and found that:
Headed northwest from the bottom of the Monteagle grade, the highway was built in 1963 or so. The median is 60 feet for the first several miles, but then goes to 100. The newest sections, c. 1968 or so, have a standard width of 120 feet. Through Manchester and Murfreesboro and one pass through a ridge the median drops back to sixty feet, but within the 100 and 120-foot parts are further bifurcations of up to 200 feet! There's a significant section of ninety-foot median as well, where there's a good bit of lateral slope across the right-of-way.
When forming my opinions as to the awesomeness of the various state highway systems, apparent policy toward median width and bifurcations is definitely a factor. Regardless of their actual merit, wide medians are luxurious, and that impresses me. Variety counts for a lot with me, too, and that's one of the things I like best about Tennessee compared to any other state I know reasonably well.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 16, 2016, 02:18:38 AM
There are some off interstate non freeway roads with trees in the median. US 301 through Fort AP Hill for one and that is in VA.
US 19 & 98 from Lebanon Station to Chiefland in Florida has (or had) a tree lined median.
US 13 from Princess Anne, MD to Fruitland, MD has a tree lined center.
US 50 from Salisbury, MD to US 113 just west of Ocean City.
Anyway, headlight glare is the main reason, and to give you that feeling of being on a Parkway.
Also I-287 in Northern NJ has stretches near Bedminster and in Bridgewater there is a section from US 202/206 to US 22 that has it wide.
I-78 has it between I-287 and the Watchung Reservation in Berkley Heights.
Hey, let's not forget Southern State Parkway west of Belmont Lake State Park. NY 27 used to have them west of the Carmans River Bridges because of it's proximity to South Haven County Park, but those trees have been dying out over recent years.
Also, if Florida's Turnpike Enterprise ever builds the Suncoast Parkway to Red Level, like they should be doing, they should have the same thing between Citrus County Road 495 and it's northern terminus at US 19/98.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
Why do I-85, most of I-64, and I-95 in Virginia(although because of the HOT lanes only the stretch from Fredericksburg to Richmond) all have thick tree medians in the middle of the road that stretch miles? Were those interstates purposely built like that for some reason? It seems to be very unique.
40 to 50 years of tree growth. Most of those medians when built had relatively few trees, or if they had a lot of trees were small trees. Those little oak and maple saplings will grow to 70 to 100 feet high after 40 years.
Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2017, 12:37:05 AM
40 to 50 years of tree growth. Most of those medians when built had relatively few trees, or if they had a lot of trees were small trees. Those little oak and maple saplings will grow to 70 to 100 feet high after 40 years.
I-95 in Prince William County roughly south of present-day VA-294 (Prince William Parkway) had a median that had heavy tree growth even when it was new in the 1960's, because VDH did not clear the median of tree growth.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 15, 2017, 07:36:53 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2017, 12:37:05 AM
40 to 50 years of tree growth. Most of those medians when built had relatively few trees, or if they had a lot of trees were small trees. Those little oak and maple saplings will grow to 70 to 100 feet high after 40 years.
I-95 in Prince William County roughly south of present-day VA-294 (Prince William Parkway) had a median that had heavy tree growth even when it was new in the 1960's, because VDH did not clear the median of tree growth.
That had an extremely wide median mostly over 400 feet wide, and in such situations the trees in the median were usually left untouched.
In many of the narrower treed medians VDOT employed what they termed Selected Tree Thinning whereby they removed 1/2 to 2/3 of the trees uniformly throughout the median area.
I witnessed this as a Highway Construction Inspector when I-95 was built in Sussex County 1977-1982.