Hurricane Florence - Road Closures

[Beltway]

If Hurricane Florence doesn't light a fire under people to get moving on building I-73 through South Carolina, I doubt anything will.

Well, it's not like they're going to be able to say that Interstate highways prevent and resolve any flooding issues...

Important as effective evacuation routes are, it takes a lot more justifications than that for what nowadays is a $2 billion highway project.

[Duke87]

Well, it's not like they're going to be able to say that Interstate highways prevent and resolve any flooding issues...

They do if they are built at sufficient elevation so as to keep the road surface above the maximum flood level, and with sufficient culvert/bridge capacity to pass the maximum water flow underneath.

Of course this can be said of any road, not just interstates.

[Beltway]

Well, it's not like they're going to be able to say that Interstate highways prevent and resolve any flooding issues...

They do if they are built at sufficient elevation so as to keep the road surface above the maximum flood level, and with sufficient culvert/bridge capacity to pass the maximum water flow underneath.

That would be extremely expensive.  Interstate highways are normally built to a 25-year or 50-year storm standard, not for a rare event such as TS Agnes in 1972 that was said to be a 200-year storm.

[jeffandnicole]

Well, it's not like they're going to be able to say that Interstate highways prevent and resolve any flooding issues...

They do if they are built at sufficient elevation so as to keep the road surface above the maximum flood level, and with sufficient culvert/bridge capacity to pass the maximum water flow underneath.

Of course this can be said of any road, not just interstates.

I don't think there's a "maximum" flood level.

Also, you need proper drainage. Many roads have curbs. Curbs have drainage inlets, which can take in most rain water from most storms. Curbs prevent water from running off the road towards houses. Better to flood the road than flood the houses.

[02 Park Ave]

Has damage requiring long term repairs, and closures, been identified on any Interstates yet?

[1995hoo]

Google Maps is showing I-40 closed in both directions from Wilmington to Benson, as well as portions of US 74/76 between Lumberton and Wilmington.

News articles have shown photos of I-40 being completely underwater in varioys places. 

[LM117]

If Hurricane Florence doesn't light a fire under people to get moving on building I-73 through South Carolina, I doubt anything will.

Rep. Tom Rice (R-SC) is already talking about it.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/as-flooding-threatens-to-isolate-myrtle-beach-officials-renew-call/article_995029c0-bb86-11e8-97cc-7b0781507b0d.html

[1995hoo]

http://twitter.com/cityoffaync/status/1042033552806883328?s=21

[vdeane]

Well, it's not like they're going to be able to say that Interstate highways prevent and resolve any flooding issues...

They do if they are built at sufficient elevation so as to keep the road surface above the maximum flood level, and with sufficient culvert/bridge capacity to pass the maximum water flow underneath.

That would be extremely expensive.  Interstate highways are normally built to a 25-year or 50-year storm standard, not for a rare event such as TS Agnes in 1972 that was said to be a 200-year storm.

Since 100 year storms now happen pretty regularly, I would think engineering for formerly "rare" storms would be the prudent thing to do in this day and age.

[Beltway]

That would be extremely expensive.  Interstate highways are normally built to a 25-year or 50-year storm standard, not for a rare event such as TS Agnes in 1972 that was said to be a 200-year storm.

Since 100 year storms now happen pretty regularly, I would think engineering for formerly "rare" storms would be the prudent thing to do in this day and age.

Then they are not / were not 100-year storms, it was only thru lack of historical data that they were alleged to be.

[vdeane]

It's not lack of historical data.  It's climate change.

[Beltway]

It's not lack of historical data.  It's climate change.

Predictable response.

[vdeane]

The data is undeniable.  Whenever the temperature on a given day breaks a record and they show you all the other times the temperature was close to the record.  The majority of them are from the last 20 years if not the last decade.  That wouldn't be true if climate wasn't changing - they'd be spread out over the past 100-150 years to when we started keeping records.  Look at how flooding is so much more of a problem that it was before.  Look at how winter temperatures and storms are getting more erratic.  Heck, look at how global average temperatures are going up faster than ANY POINT IN THE GEOLOGICAL RECORD.  At this point, sticking your head in the sand because you like fossil fuels (or because you dislike how some environmental/urbanist advocates have seized the opportunity to try to make people change their lifestyles) is just plain irresponsible.

[Beltway]

There are mountains of published evidence that floods and hurricanes recently are no more prevalent or intense than they have been over the last 100 years.  Stop spending so much time watching CNN and MSNBC and expand from your static worldview.

[edwaleni]

The data is undeniable.  Whenever the temperature on a given day breaks a record and they show you all the other times the temperature was close to the record.  The majority of them are from the last 20 years if not the last decade.  That wouldn't be true if climate wasn't changing - they'd be spread out over the past 100-150 years to when we started keeping records.  Look at how flooding is so much more of a problem that it was before.  Look at how winter temperatures and storms are getting more erratic.  Heck, look at how global average temperatures are going up faster than ANY POINT IN THE GEOLOGICAL RECORD.  At this point, sticking your head in the sand because you like fossil fuels (or because you dislike how some environmental/urbanist advocates have seized the opportunity to try to make people change their lifestyles) is just plain irresponsible.

Not to get off the rails here. The current global warming trend actually started in or around the 1750's before the industrial revolution.  There was major cold spell globally just prior that peaked with the freezing of the Danube in Europe that ended a 300 year trend downward in temps.

It was called the "Little Ice Age".

While average temps are going up, its not 100% clear what the causes are.  Global weather is impacted by many, many variables, included sun spots and solar cycles, perturbations in the earths rotation (called Milankovitch Cycles) basically a planetary wobble.  Output of CO2 from man or animal via methane, reduction in overall earth rotation times in the past million years.

Only man's arrogance assumes we are the sole source of global warming. Climate change has been happening since the Earth was formed billions of years ago. It has never been static or worked on a fixed schedule.

Now, back to roads.

[vdeane]

There are mountains of published evidence that floods and hurricanes recently are no more prevalent or intense than they have been over the last 100 years.  Stop spending so much time watching CNN and MSNBC and expand from your static worldview.

While I do read CNN (as for watching the news, that would just be the evening local/national coverage on my local ABC station; I don't have cable anyways and I prefer text when on my computer), I also read many other sources (primarily Politico/The Hill/NY Times/Washington Post/CNBC/BBC/The Guardian/Wired/Bloomberg, but as far as I'm concerned anything's game if it crosses my Facebook or Google News feeds; the only stuff I avoid are unavoidable paywalls (like Wall St Journal, which I used to read when they had a Google exemption) and Fox), as well as comments where available (which include a wide variety of political opinions).  I just don't find the conservative "nothing unusual is going on" position credible; it doesn't fit the facts AT ALL.  Heck, I'm only 27, and winter (and summer too) just isn't the same as it was when I was young!  If there's a noticeable contrast for someone as young as I am, there is probably an even bigger one for those who are older (and anecdotes and data both bear this out).

The data is undeniable.  Whenever the temperature on a given day breaks a record and they show you all the other times the temperature was close to the record.  The majority of them are from the last 20 years if not the last decade.  That wouldn't be true if climate wasn't changing - they'd be spread out over the past 100-150 years to when we started keeping records.  Look at how flooding is so much more of a problem that it was before.  Look at how winter temperatures and storms are getting more erratic.  Heck, look at how global average temperatures are going up faster than ANY POINT IN THE GEOLOGICAL RECORD.  At this point, sticking your head in the sand because you like fossil fuels (or because you dislike how some environmental/urbanist advocates have seized the opportunity to try to make people change their lifestyles) is just plain irresponsible.

Not to get off the rails here. The current global warming trend actually started in or around the 1750's before the industrial revolution.  There was major cold spell globally just prior that peaked with the freezing of the Danube in Europe that ended a 300 year trend downward in temps.

It was called the "Little Ice Age".

While average temps are going up, its not 100% clear what the causes are.  Global weather is impacted by many, many variables, included sun spots and solar cycles, perturbations in the earths rotation (called Milankovitch Cycles) basically a planetary wobble.  Output of CO2 from man or animal via methane, reduction in overall earth rotation times in the past million years.

Only man's arrogance assumes we are the sole source of global warming. Climate change has been happening since the Earth was formed billions of years ago. It has never been static or worked on a fixed schedule.

Now, back to roads.

Certainly we may not be the only factor but definitely a big one.  XKCD did a good job charting this out.  There was a small bump when the Little Ice Age ended but it really picked up with industrialization.
https://xkcd.com/1732/ (read the hover text too)

[Beltway]

Mars is in the midst of a worldwide dust storm that has largely frustrated astronomers who wanted to observe it during its opposition (closest approach to Earth) last month.  AFAIK no Earthings are there impacting the climate!

[hotdogPi]

skepticalscience.com

(despite the website name, this website is debunking the skeptic claims, not promoting them)

----

There are mountains of published evidence that floods and hurricanes recently are no more prevalent or intense than they have been over the last 100 years.  Stop spending so much time watching CNN and MSNBC and expand from your static worldview.

Due to climate change, frequency is decreasing slightly, but this is more than offset by increased intensity.

[Beltway]

https://www.desmogblog.com/david-deming

[hotdogPi]

https://www.desmogblog.com/david-deming

The purpose of that website is against your position; the person in the subpage you chose disagrees with the main part of the website.

[Beltway]

https://www.desmogblog.com/david-deming

The purpose of that website is against your position; the person in the subpage you chose disagrees with the main part of the website.

??? .... ?????? ... ???  What do you think is my position?  How does David Deming frame the issues?  ????

????

[02 Park Ave]

What is the status of the I-95 between Richmond ans Savannah?

[Traffic]

It is still under water through much of the Southern part of NC.  It is basically closed between I-40 in Benson and the SC Line.  It reopens at I-74/US 74, Exit 14 in NC.

[Beltway]

What is the status of the I-95 between Richmond ans Savannah?

South Carolina reports all of theirs is open now, but that they are monitoring the Little Pee Dee River as that is likely to flood across I-95 in the next day or so.

[LM117]

NCDOT says that parts of I-40 and I-95 will remain closed for at least another week.

https://www.wral.com/ncdot-stay-away-from-wilmington-/17860288/

This site gives the latest info on road closures in NC:

https://tims.ncdot.gov/tims/