Greensboro Urban Loop

[Roadsguy]

So they finally opened the ramp from I-785 NB to US 29 SB? I see traffic on it in the flyover video.

[ushighway421]

obtained this pdf bulletin online that NCDOT is planning to turn Wendover Avenue into U.S. 70 all the way from east Greensboro to high point.

Link: https://www.highpointnc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Agenda/_06252019-304

Wendover ave as the new US 70 would be nice. those on either side of the i-840 loop would have one single route direction thats easy to follow directly to high point/jamestown or to burlington, rather than a mess of multiple interstates.


subsequently, us 29 south freeway thru jamestown would lose its i85 business labels/us 70 labels and become us 29 only.

only question is when?

us 29 south still has old 85 business/70 labels on it.

[ushighway421]

https://www.highpointnc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Agenda/_06252019-304

think i may have left out a character. should be good now. copied it straight from the page.

[Mapmikey]

obtained this pdf bulletin online that NCDOT is planning to turn Wendover Avenue into U.S. 70 all the way from east Greensboro to high point.

Link: https://www.highpointnc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Agenda/_06252019-304

Wendover ave as the new US 70 would be nice. those on either side of the i-840 loop would have one single route direction thats easy to follow directly to high point/jamestown or to burlington, rather than a mess of multiple interstates.


subsequently, us 29 south freeway thru jamestown would lose its i85 business labels/us 70 labels and become us 29 only.

only question is when?

us 29 south still has old 85 business/70 labels on it.

Timing for these things in NC can be inconsistent...

US 311 truncation to Winston-Salem approved a while ago but not done yet
US 158 relocation in Reidsville took 10 years after it was approved

[sprjus4]

https://www.highpointnc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Agenda/_06252019-304

think i may have left out a character. should be good now. copied it straight from the page.

I think it was actually on my end, the connection lagged, because the old link also works now.

The re-routing of US-70 just got officially approved at the AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting last week, so NCDOT should eventually change out signs.

Item No. 15 ‐ State: North Carolina Route: U.S 70

Action: Relocation of a U.S. Route Between US 29/US 70 in Davidson County and US 29/US 70/US 220 in Guilford County.

Description: Currently, a portion of US 70 is routed along sections of I‐40, I‐ 85, US 29, and US 220 in Davidson, Randolph, and Guilford Counties. The proposed relocated section of US 70 will be concurrent with portions of NC 68, SR 1541/SR 2254 (Wendover Avenue), and US 220 in Guilford County. All the proposed routing will be on the National Highway System. It will provide another US route through the municipalities of Thomasville, High Point, and Greensboro to better serve these communities, serve as a numbered diversion route, aid in incident management, provide single route continuity, and simplify the freeway signing system. The proposed relocated routing of US 70 would provide an alternate primary availability to other parts of the county as well as diverting traffic from concurrent interstate routes. Both the Greensboro Urban Area and High Point Metropolitan Planning Organizations provided resolutions of support for this proposed relocation of US 70.

Affirmative with Condition

https://s3.amazonaws.com/v3-app_crowdc/assets/b/ba/ba708eca603c86f1/000_USRN_Agenda_and_List_of_Applications__AM_St_Louis__MO-2019_%28nc%29.original.1570033411.pdf?1570033413

[wdcrft63]

I'm happy that US 70 will follow Wendover Avenue through Greensboro. There's a temptation to put all the route numbers on bypasses, but it's helpful to visitors to have a few primary routes going through the urban areas. I recall that Raleigh put US 70 on the bypass (I-440) for a time but then returned it to run through downtown.

[sprjus4]

I'm happy that US 70 will follow Wendover Avenue through Greensboro. There's a temptation to put all the route numbers on bypasses, but it's helpful to visitors to have a few primary routes going through the urban areas. I recall that Raleigh put US 70 on the bypass (I-440) for a time but then returned it to run through downtown.

Agreed. The only routing that follows the interstate in Raleigh anymore is US-64, and with I-87 coming to fruition and it taking over US-64's routing leaving the city to the north / east, it's time US-64 is routed back onto the old routing thru and outside of Raleigh.

[LM117]

I'm happy that US 70 will follow Wendover Avenue through Greensboro. There's a temptation to put all the route numbers on bypasses, but it's helpful to visitors to have a few primary routes going through the urban areas. I recall that Raleigh put US 70 on the bypass (I-440) for a time but then returned it to run through downtown.

Agreed. The only routing that follows the interstate in Raleigh anymore is US-64

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HVNZohEHhSimhL4Z9

[goobnav]

I'm happy that US 70 will follow Wendover Avenue through Greensboro. There's a temptation to put all the route numbers on bypasses, but it's helpful to visitors to have a few primary routes going through the urban areas. I recall that Raleigh put US 70 on the bypass (I-440) for a time but then returned it to run through downtown.

Agreed. The only routing that follows the interstate in Raleigh anymore is US-64, and with I-87 coming to fruition and it taking over US-64's routing leaving the city to the north / east, it's time US-64 is routed back onto the old routing thru and outside of Raleigh.

Agree with @LM117, US-1 is on the westside of the Beltline and when I-885 is open in Durham, US-70 is going to be on it and I-85, plus US-15 is on I-85 to just north of Falls Lake just north of Durham.  US-70 is partially on I-40 from Garner to the bypass and would be on I-42 once signed as well.

Plus US-64 going back on it's old alignment would have going over and under I-87 multiple times and be exit signing nightmare.

[sprjus4]

Agree with @LM117, US-1 is on the westside of the Beltline and when I-885 is open in Durham, US-70 is going to be on it and I-85, plus US-15 is on I-85 to just north of Falls Lake just north of Durham.  US-70 is partially on I-40 from Garner to the bypass and would be on I-42 once signed as well.

I missed US-1 it appears for the Raleigh area, but the others you mention are closer to Durham, not Raleigh.

Plus US-64 going back on it's old alignment would have going over and under I-87 multiple times and be exit signing nightmare.

It only interchanges with the old road about 5 times on the route between Raleigh and Williamston. I don't see it being an issue. Look at I-95 for example, it crosses US-301 numerous times.

[goobnav]

Agree with @LM117, US-1 is on the westside of the Beltline and when I-885 is open in Durham, US-70 is going to be on it and I-85, plus US-15 is on I-85 to just north of Falls Lake just north of Durham.  US-70 is partially on I-40 from Garner to the bypass and would be on I-42 once signed as well.

I missed US-1 it appears for the Raleigh area, but the others you mention are closer to Durham, not Raleigh.

Plus US-64 going back on it's old alignment would have going over and under I-87 multiple times and be exit signing nightmare.

It only interchanges with the old road about 5 times on the route between Raleigh and Williamston. I don't see it being an issue. Look at I-95 for example, it crosses US-301 numerous times.

Durham or Raleigh just like Greensboro, US 70 being the exception, they weren't routed back to the old alignments, I drive on Future I-87/US 64 every 2 weeks, the old alignment of US 64 crosses current US 64 3 times, Wendell, Zebulon and Nashville, in the span 20 miles people will be confused.  It's been on the current alignment for 20+ years, it can stay right where it is and lessen the confusion.

Greensboro is a different animal.  At one point, Death Valley, aka Painter Blvd had 2 Interstates and 4 US routes, prior to the bypass being built.

[sprjus4]

I drive on Future I-87/US 64 every 2 weeks, the old alignment of US 64 crosses current US 64 3 times, Wendell, Zebulon and Nashville, in the span 20 miles people will be confused.  It's been on the current alignment for 20+ years, it can stay right where it is and lessen the confusion.

The Future I-87 / US-64 freeway stretches 97 miles between I-440 and Williamston.

Over that course, the freeway has an interchange with US-64 Alt / Business only four times, and an additional 2 times the routes cross with no connections. They first two interchanges are 30 miles apart, the second and third are 14 miles apart, and the third and forth are 35 miles apart.

Exit 13 / Old Exit 429 - US-64 Business
Exit 458 - US-64 Alt / US-64 Business
Exit 472 - US-64 Alt / US-64 Business
Exit 507 - US-64 Alt

I didn't count the two "overlaps" (where the route merges and defaults as US-64 then leave again) between Exits 461 and Exit 457, and also Exits 485 and 486, as those could easily be routed on parallel surface roads and not have to meet the freeway.

I-95 has a similar situation - over its 182 mile course, it interchanges with US-301 six different times and has an "overlap" near Lumberton.

Exit 1 - US-301
Exit 10 - US-301 (southern end of overlap)
Exit 22 - US-301 (northern end of overlap)
Exit 25 - US-301
Exit 33 - US-301
Exit 107 - US-301

Another example is I-77 and US-21. I'm not going to spend the time to look at the specifics as I did with I-95 and I-87, but simply looking at a map, you can see they cross and interchange at least 5 different times.

[wdcrft63]

I'm happy that US 70 will follow Wendover Avenue through Greensboro. There's a temptation to put all the route numbers on bypasses, but it's helpful to visitors to have a few primary routes going through the urban areas. I recall that Raleigh put US 70 on the bypass (I-440) for a time but then returned it to run through downtown.

Agreed. The only routing that follows the interstate in Raleigh anymore is US-64, and with I-87 coming to fruition and it taking over US-64's routing leaving the city to the north / east, it's time US-64 is routed back onto the old routing thru and outside of Raleigh.

Agree with @LM117, US-1 is on the westside of the Beltline and when I-885 is open in Durham, US-70 is going to be on it and I-85, plus US-15 is on I-85 to just north of Falls Lake just north of Durham.

Comments on Durham:

(1) US 15, US 70, and US 501 all have Business routes through downtown Durham.

(2) US 15/501 coincides with I-85 on the north side of downtown but then splits off on a freeway west of Duke University, so the short overlap with I-85 is necessary.

(3) When I-885 opens it will no longer be necessary for US 70 to coincide with the interstates; it could go back to the Business 70 routing through town, although I don't think it will.

(4) Finally, the overlap of US 15 with I-85 northeast of Durham to Falls Lake is necessary because there actually is no other route for it to take; the interstate must have wiped out its former route.

[froggie]

(3) When I-885 opens it will no longer be necessary for US 70 to coincide with the interstates; it could go back to the Business 70 routing through town, although I don't think it will.

HIGHLY doubtful.  General US route policy states that routes should follow the straightest and best (i.e. highest quality) roads.  Can't get much higher quality than an all-freeway routing.

That said, the approval for US 70 between Greensboro and High Point suggests that US route relocations onto roads on the National Highway System (which as of MAP-21 includes roads with a functional classification of Principal Arterial) is acceptable.  However, no such east-west roads exist in Durham between I-85 and NC 147.  So if there was to be a US 70 Durham relocation, one option would be to move it onto the East End Connector for one exit, then have it replace NC 147 out to I-85.  That would reduce its concurrencies with I-85 and I-885 to one exit each.

(4) Finally, the overlap of US 15 with I-85 northeast of Durham to Falls Lake is necessary because there actually is no other route for it to take; the interstate must have wiped out its former route.

Only over Falls Lake proper.  Southwest of Falls Lake, Geer Street is the pre-Interstate US 15 routing.

[sprjus4]

(3) When I-885 opens it will no longer be necessary for US 70 to coincide with the interstates; it could go back to the Business 70 routing through town, although I don't think it will.

HIGHLY doubtful.  General US route policy states that routes should follow the straightest and best (i.e. highest quality) roads.  Can't get much higher quality than an all-freeway routing.

Tell that to US-117 when it was re-routed from the I-795 freeway onto surface routing. Also, any US route that follows a surface road that's paralleled by a freeway.

[froggie]

The latter are, almost without exception, grandfathered in because they were never moved in the first place.  The former was a violation of AASHTO's own policies...but for whatever reason they chose to approve that move.

[LM117]

(3) When I-885 opens it will no longer be necessary for US 70 to coincide with the interstates; it could go back to the Business 70 routing through town, although I don't think it will.

HIGHLY doubtful.  General US route policy states that routes should follow the straightest and best (i.e. highest quality) roads.  Can't get much higher quality than an all-freeway routing.

Tell that to US-117 when it was re-routed from the I-795 freeway onto surface routing.

A little OT, but one thing I never understood is why NCDOT didn't just go for the I-795 designation from the get-go rather than go through the trouble of playing musical chairs with US-117. I'm glad that US-117 was put back on it's old alignment, though.

Funny thing is that Wayne County had proposed that the freeway become I-795 back in 2001 when it was still under construction, but NCDOT wasn't interested until after the freeway opened in 2006 and trucks over 48 ft. kept getting pulled over. I-795 is the only fairly recent interstate where "economic development" wasn't the driving factor for it's designation. Obviously, attitudes have changed since then.

[NE2]

AASHTO didn't approve moving 117 back. Nobody cares so it was done anyway.

[The Ghostbuster]

Since major portions of the Greensboro Urban Loop have been completed, has anyone noticed a significant reduction in congestion on the still-existing Interstate 40 and pre-existing Interstate 85 alignments? I'd imagine that local traffic would continue to use the original alignments, while most through traffic would move to the Urban Loop. I assume that is what happens when new alignments are built that bypass previously existing alignments.

[Strider]

Since major portions of the Greensboro Urban Loop have been completed, has anyone noticed a significant reduction in congestion on the still-existing Interstate 40 and pre-existing Interstate 85 alignments? I'd imagine that local traffic would continue to use the original alignments, while most through traffic would move to the Urban Loop. I assume that is what happens when new alignments are built that bypass previously existing alignments.

Yes and no. People still drive through I-40 going through Death Valley and congestion is still there, especially between I-40/ I-85 Business split and I-40/I-85 Business US 29/70/220 split. However, that section is going to be rebuilt in the next few years.

The Business I-85 section is still also signed as US 29/70, so yeah many local and through traffic still uses that road.

I will bet that as soon as the ENTIRE I-840 is finished, traffic will be reduced in certain areas around Greensboro. I don't know how many percentage of reduction it would be.

[LM117]

The next section between Battleground Avenue and Lawndale Drive is scheduled to open on December 31.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/article/traffic/new-greensboro-urban-loop-i-840-to-open-traffic/83-ba29c9a3-3503-4a69-9708-89ee5bb86d2b

[bob7374]

The segment of the Loop from US 220/Battleground Ave to Lawndale Dr opened this afternoon, 1 day ahead of schedule. Despite the ending now not being at a numbered route, it is signed as I-840. Here's the East I-840 reassurance marker after the US 220 exit, courtesy of Strider:


I have posted other photos of his at my Future Interstates Greensboro Loop page:
http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/futloop.html#i840photos

[sprjus4]

News broadcast regarding the opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2_O_xyFrL4

The signage at US-220 Battleground Ave to I-840 reads "I-840 East - To Lawndale Dr" with space open for another route number, likely "To US-29" or "To I-785" in the future.

The footage also features an aerial shot of the US-220 interchange.

[tolbs17]

It's nice of how it opened before New Years! That just leaves the section from Lawndale to US 29.

Fun Fact: If the connection from I-40 to I-73 was built, there would be a lot of traffic on the northern part of the Greensboro Urban Loop. That would make a second bypass of Greensboro!

[sprjus4]

Fun Fact: If the connection from I-40 to I-73 was built, there would be a lot of traffic on the northern part of the Greensboro Urban Loop.

How would a connection between I-40 and I-73 bring a lot of traffic to I-840? Traffic can already access it via I-40 to I-73 directly.