Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'

[kalvado]

Relatively new I-95 interchange roundabout outside Richmond saw a serious crash that injured 6 people.  A passenger car crashed head-first into a tractor-trailer.

https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/richmond/six-people-injured-in-head-on-tractor-trailer-crash-at-maury-roundabout/

Doesn't sound like roundabout specific one. Entering oncoming traffic lane is bad regardless. If anything, roundabout slowed down oncoming truck for a better outcome.

[jeffandnicole]

Relatively new I-95 interchange roundabout outside Richmond saw a serious crash that injured 6 people.  A passenger car crashed head-first into a tractor-trailer.

https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/richmond/six-people-injured-in-head-on-tractor-trailer-crash-at-maury-roundabout/

Doesn't sound like roundabout specific one. Entering oncoming traffic lane is bad regardless. If anything, roundabout slowed down oncoming truck for a better outcome.

Yeah. Based on the article the driver that cased the accident crossed the double yellow. The roundabout was immaterial to the issue.

[SEWIGuy]

So in other words, this really isn't an example of a "Crash prone 'modern roundabout.'"

[kphoger]

So in other words, this really isn't an example of a "Crash prone 'modern roundabout.'"

Correct.  Rather, it's |tradephoric| attempting to pass off a single accident at a roundabout as proof that the roundabout is crash-prone.

[jeffandnicole]

So in other words, this really isn't an example of a "Crash prone 'modern roundabout.'"

Correct.  Rather, it's |tradephoric| attempting to pass off a single accident at a roundabout as proof that the roundabout is crash-prone.

Didn't even happen at a roundabout. It happened near one, and the vehicle that caused it hadn't approached it yet.

[tradephoric]

Yeah. Based on the article the driver that cased the accident crossed the double yellow. The roundabout was immaterial to the issue.

The article made no mention of the driver crossing a double yellow.  This is how the article described the accident...

"According to police, the passenger vehicle was over-crowded with occupants and driving east on Maury Street. The passenger vehicle then crossed over into the westbound travel lane and hit a Semi-Tractor Trailer Tanker truck head-on. The tractor-trailer was exiting out of the roundabout onto Maury Street at the time."

An aerial view of the roundabout with the blue line indicating the driver's path traveling EB Maury Street prior to the roundabout being constructed.  If you "miss" the roundabout it now takes you straight into oncoming traffic.



 

[kalvado]

So in other words, this really isn't an example of a "Crash prone 'modern roundabout.'"

Correct.  Rather, it's |tradephoric| attempting to pass off a single accident at a roundabout as proof that the roundabout is crash-prone.

Didn't even happen at a roundabout. It happened near one, and the vehicle that caused it hadn't approached it yet.

Being devil's advocate... We didn't see accident reconstruction, and it's not beyond reasonable doubt that truck exiting roundabout wasn't position correctly in the roadway as trucks do have hard time navigating small roundabouts. Article could state things from preliminary police report, which may be less than totally accurate

[SEWIGuy]

Yeah. Based on the article the driver that cased the accident crossed the double yellow. The roundabout was immaterial to the issue.

The article made no mention of the driver crossing a double yellow.  This is how the article described the accident...

"According to police, the passenger vehicle was over-crowded with occupants and driving east on Maury Street. The passenger vehicle then crossed over into the westbound travel lane and hit a Semi-Tractor Trailer Tanker truck head-on. The tractor-trailer was exiting out of the roundabout onto Maury Street at the time."

An aerial view of the roundabout with the blue line indicating the driver's path traveling EB Maury Street prior to the roundabout being constructed.  If you "miss" the roundabout it now takes you straight into oncoming traffic.



 

Uh...no it doesn't. You drew the line wrong.

Regardless, you can miss a light. Or a stop sign.

[kalvado]

Yeah. Based on the article the driver that cased the accident crossed the double yellow. The roundabout was immaterial to the issue.

The article made no mention of the driver crossing a double yellow.  This is how the article described the accident...

"According to police, the passenger vehicle was over-crowded with occupants and driving east on Maury Street. The passenger vehicle then crossed over into the westbound travel lane and hit a Semi-Tractor Trailer Tanker truck head-on. The tractor-trailer was exiting out of the roundabout onto Maury Street at the time."

An aerial view of the roundabout with the blue line indicating the driver's path traveling EB Maury Street prior to the roundabout being constructed.  If you "miss" the roundabout it now takes you straight into oncoming traffic. 

Uh...no it doesn't. You drew the line wrong.

Regardless, you can miss a light. Or a stop sign.

Overall, events like that do not work as an argument against roundabout. They are not roundabout-specific and may happen in other settings.
But do go into statistics which may show roundabouts  are more (or less) prone to accidents overall compared to other settings.

[kphoger]

The article made no mention of the driver crossing a double yellow.

"... According to police, the passenger vehicle was ... driving east ... then crossed over into the westbound travel lane ..."

Are you telling me there's no double yellow between eastbound and westbound lanes?

[tradephoric]

Are you telling me there's no double yellow between eastbound and westbound lanes?

Really all I'm saying is the article never mentioned that the vehicle crossed over the double-yellow.  My gut is telling me the impact took place somewhere in the very lower left of the picture after the passenger vehicle crossed over the splitter island.

[SEWIGuy]

Yeah. Based on the article the driver that cased the accident crossed the double yellow. The roundabout was immaterial to the issue.

The article made no mention of the driver crossing a double yellow.  This is how the article described the accident...

"According to police, the passenger vehicle was over-crowded with occupants and driving east on Maury Street. The passenger vehicle then crossed over into the westbound travel lane and hit a Semi-Tractor Trailer Tanker truck head-on. The tractor-trailer was exiting out of the roundabout onto Maury Street at the time."

An aerial view of the roundabout with the blue line indicating the driver's path traveling EB Maury Street prior to the roundabout being constructed.  If you "miss" the roundabout it now takes you straight into oncoming traffic. 

Uh...no it doesn't. You drew the line wrong.

Regardless, you can miss a light. Or a stop sign.

Overall, events like that do not work as an argument against roundabout. They are not roundabout-specific and may happen in other settings.
But do go into statistics which may show roundabouts  are more (or less) prone to accidents overall compared to other settings.

Oh I agree. My understanding is that roundabouts have no impact on the frequency of accidents, but do have a significantly impact on the severity of accidents.

Now does that mean a roundabout will be safer in EVERY situation?  Of course not.  But by and large, they are safer.

[kalvado]

Yeah. Based on the article the driver that cased the accident crossed the double yellow. The roundabout was immaterial to the issue.

The article made no mention of the driver crossing a double yellow.  This is how the article described the accident...

"According to police, the passenger vehicle was over-crowded with occupants and driving east on Maury Street. The passenger vehicle then crossed over into the westbound travel lane and hit a Semi-Tractor Trailer Tanker truck head-on. The tractor-trailer was exiting out of the roundabout onto Maury Street at the time."

An aerial view of the roundabout with the blue line indicating the driver's path traveling EB Maury Street prior to the roundabout being constructed.  If you "miss" the roundabout it now takes you straight into oncoming traffic. 

Uh...no it doesn't. You drew the line wrong.

Regardless, you can miss a light. Or a stop sign.

Overall, events like that do not work as an argument against roundabout. They are not roundabout-specific and may happen in other settings.
But do go into statistics which may show roundabouts  are more (or less) prone to accidents overall compared to other settings.

Oh I agree. My understanding is that roundabouts have no impact on the frequency of accidents, but do have a significantly impact on the severity of accidents.

Now does that mean a roundabout will be safer in EVERY situation?  Of course not.  But by and large, they are safer.

Well, you basically have to confirm almost every word in your statement if we want to restart this discussion. My impression is that each parameter (accident frequency, accident severity, overall loss) can go up or down, depending on design quality and suitability of roundabout in a particular location. 

[SEWIGuy]

I do not wish to re-start this discussion.

[tradephoric]

After US 41 roundabout crashes, Sarasota works to educate visitors, new residents
https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-county/after-u-s-41-roundabout-crashes-sarasota-works-to-educate-visitors-new-residents/

Always wondered how these roundabouts along US 41 in Sarasota would do.  The triple-lane Gulfstream roundabout is the most complicated of the bunch.

[kalvado]

After US 41 roundabout crashes, Sarasota works to educate visitors, new residents
https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-county/after-u-s-41-roundabout-crashes-sarasota-works-to-educate-visitors-new-residents/

Always wondered how these roundabouts along US 41 in Sarasota would do.  The triple-lane Gulfstream roundabout is the most complicated of the bunch.

Well, you cannot blame engineers because this should not be called engineering.
I wonder if there is a PE stamp on the project, and how that person feels about stats like these

[kphoger]

I had started mapping out all the conflict points, and then I just got thoroughly confused up at the top part.

[kalvado]

I had started mapping out all the conflict points, and then I just got thoroughly confused up at the top part.

Top lane is effectively a slip lane from Gulfstram to US41 SB, if that helps

[kphoger]

It was the top-right part that confused me.  I thought it was two lanes, judging by the striping immediately past it.  But then I noticed that the approach from the right is only one lane, and that the outer lane of the top-right part is actually striped off as neutral space.  Weird for a one-lane section to feed into a three-lane section.

[kalvado]

It was the top-right part that confused me.  I thought it was two lanes, judging by the striping immediately past it.  But then I noticed that the approach from the right is only one lane, and that the outer lane of the top-right part is actually striped off as neutral space.  Weird for a one-lane section to feed into a three-lane section.

bottom  one lane is effectively a one way driveway for what looks like apartment/mixed use complex
Right one lane is a slip lane at right edge + whatever feeds into circular movement. Circulationg approach looks like 1 lane + 1 lane taken by construction. Before roundabout, that was 1 slip + 2 traffic light lanes.

[jakeroot]

I can't think of too many (any?) signalized intersections with triple left turns that were replaced by roundabouts.

I find the article to be a little ridiculous. The locals can navigate the roundabouts just fine but it's all those pesky "tourists" that cause the crashes? Talk about sticking your head in the sand.

[kalvado]

I can't think of too many (any?) signalized intersections with triple left turns that were replaced by roundabouts.

I find the article to be a little ridiculous. The locals can navigate the roundabouts just fine but it's all those pesky "tourists" that cause the crashes? Talk about sticking your head in the sand.

If you do something on a regular basis - be it driving through a complicated intersection, cooking fancy dish, working on a complex car or what not - you eventually get used to it and get better at that task. Those 3 left turning lanes are the main for people coming from several small keys. Looking at house density on those keys, I wonder if sardines in a can are really packed that tight and there should be twice as many of them in that can.  I bet regulars take that road pretty often.
So yes, most likely residents use those left turning lanes at high speed, and any tourist trying to navigate the crazy layout at a mere 30 MPH hinders traffic flow.

[tradephoric]

Sofian Kiyine, a 25 year old midfielder for OH Leuven, blasted through a roundabout in Liege, Belgium on Thursday smashing through the wall of a sports hall at high speed landing on the gymnasium floor where it was reported children were playing just moments before the crash.  The video is absolutely wild. 

Video from the Telegraph youtube page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPw_dWTxjmk

[kphoger]

Sofian Kiyine, a 25 year old midfielder for OH Leuven, blasted through a roundabout in Liege, Belgium on Thursday smashing through the wall of a sports hall at high speed landing on the gymnasium floor where it was reported children were playing just moments before the crash.  The video is absolutely wild.

Is this a crash prone modern roundabout?

[tradephoric]

It's more of a launch pad than a modern roundabout.