El Paso, TX

[roadwaywiz95]

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around El Paso, TX, one of the more interesting urban centers in the Mountain West region. Coverage will begin on Saturday (4/4) at 6 PM ET.

We had a great crowd with a lot of awesome contributors for our Las Vegas Webinar presentation from last weekend and we hope to have an even stronger crowd this weekend. We hope to see you there!

[DJStephens]

A lot of $$$ invested in recent years, and a lot of mistakes, also.   

[ski-man]

Will there be an overview afterward. I cannot make that time but am very interested in El Paso info.

[roadwaywiz95]

We save all of these presentations for posterity, so if you're unable to catch portions of it "live", you'll be able to watch the balance of it once it's been processed on YouTube.

[roadwaywiz95]

Our next installment in the *weekly* live broadcast over on 'roadwaywiz' will be this double-header Virtual Tour presentation, where we dissect and enjoy a full-length trip along the belt highways encircling both El Paso, TX and Las Vegas, NV in real time, complete with commentary and contributions from admins/moderators/members of this forum.

The event will kick off on Saturday (4/11) at 6 PM ET and we look forward to seeing you there!

[ski-man]

Thanks!!!

[JKRhodes]

The last time I drove through El Paso was in October 2017 while the "Go 10" project between Executive Center Blvd and Sunland Park was underway. I remember seeing some huge bridges being cast, as well as a massive amount of earth being moved. I'd be interested to see the final results of this undertaking.

[Bobby5280]

Some of the finished work on the TX-375 loop is visible in Google Street View (Feb 2020 imagery).

[Stephane Dumas]

Some of the finished work on the TX-375 loop is visible in Google Street View (Feb 2020 imagery).

Here one shot of Loop-375 from Streetview. https://www.google.com/maps/@31.793717,-106.5268331,3a,75y,110.99h,100.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stp01sCsfuBbs5xqzIZ1AbQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[JKRhodes]

Some of the finished work on the TX-375 loop is visible in Google Street View (Feb 2020 imagery).

Here one shot of Loop-375 from Streetview. https://www.google.com/maps/@31.793717,-106.5268331,3a,75y,110.99h,100.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stp01sCsfuBbs5xqzIZ1AbQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's an impressive work, especially in the area between Schuster Ave and Executive Center Blvd where they managed to cram two freeways and an arterial (85) into such close proximity. I like how 375 rides on pillars and straddle bents over the railroad; in fact that's one of the first things I noticed on my 2017 trip.

So in your opinion did all of this construction serve a pressing regional need, or is this a case of Texas being awesome and building it just to say they built it?

[DJStephens]

  Don't believe it was well thought out.   Close to 500-600 million to construct that "tollway" just W of existing Interstate 10.   Pre-existing Geometrical problems with 10 itself on the immediate W side of El Paso should have been fixed instead.   The sixties 10 routing climbs a considerable ridge, extending from the Franklin Mountains, which run as sort of a N-S spine through El Paso itself.  The routing was to avoid a pre-existing copper operation, Asarco, which has since been demolished. About a decade ago, before this road work.  There is also a significant curve on 10, just S of Sunland Park, Exit 13. This incline, and the curve, slows long distance trucking, to create rolling backups and slowdowns at certain hours. 
   Would have routed 10 where they routed this "tollway" instead, straightening it, and thus eliminating both the Curve and the Hill.   Would have built an entirely new 10 facility, between Exits 13 and 16, with an 8-10 lane mainline, and parallel frontages.   The brutalist structures W of 10, south of Exit 16, would not have built at all.  Nor the elevated "embarcadero" structure S into downtown.  Just would have provided frontage on pre-existing 10 south of Exit 16, and better connections to the N side of the UTEP campus.   
   Believe that much of the expenditure, for this W side monstrosity, should have been used towards replacing the original Spaghetti Bowl (I-10/I-110/US 54) with a better interchange, one with some seismic resistance (box beam or segmental) and fixing of geometrical deficiencies there.
Deficiences that include weaving, incomplete frontage, and now narrowing of EB 10 to allow only three lanes of through traffic.  Seems also completely nuts.     

[Bobby5280]

I'm a little surprised more long distance trucks don't get off I-10 and take NM-404 to Chaparral and NM-213 down to the North side of El Paso to reach the North half of Loop 375. They would get around the busiest parts of El Paso, including the obsolete sections of I-10.

Some improvements are being made to I-10 near the new Loop 375 toll road. One widening project is most of the way complete between Executive Center Blvd and Sunland Park Drive. Does that fix any of the geometry issues with I-10?

[I-35]

This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso? 

[sprjus4]

This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?

I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.

[kphoger]

This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?

I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.

Agreed.  There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.

[JKRhodes]

This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?

I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.

Agreed.  There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.

International continuity. Also, a 40 mile concurrency isn't unheard of; look at I-15 and I-84 in Utah.

[sprjus4]

This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?

I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.

Agreed.  There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.

International continuity. Also, a 40 mile concurrency isn't unheard of; look at I-15 and I-84 in Utah.

I-84 actually continues somewhere on either side. I-25 wouldn't besides maybe half a mile overlapping current I-110.

[FreewayDan]

This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?

I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.

Agreed.  There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.

International continuity. Also, a 40 mile concurrency isn't unheard of; look at I-15 and I-84 in Utah.

I-84 actually continues somewhere on either side. I-25 wouldn't besides maybe half a mile overlapping current I-110.

Don't forget the 277 mile concurrency of I-80 and I-90 being together from Gary, IN, to Elyria, OH.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/41.5923701,-87.2317265/41.3866624,-82.1788738/@41.591949,-87.1159127,10z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

[DJStephens]

I'm a little surprised more long distance trucks don't get off I-10 and take NM-404 to Chaparral and NM-213 down to the North side of El Paso to reach the North half of Loop 375. They would get around the busiest parts of El Paso, including the obsolete sections of I-10.

Some improvements are being made to I-10 near the new Loop 375 toll road. One widening project is most of the way complete between Executive Center Blvd and Sunland Park Drive. Does that fix any of the geometry issues with I-10?

   Traveling via that route is essentially a bunch of "zig zags".   However, there IS a significant fraction of truck freight using that zig zag, including fairly heavy turning movements at the newer rotary structure at NM 213/404 which is frankly awful.  The route is quite circuitous as NM 404 begins to head ENE as it nears NM 213 from the W.   
   There needs to be a straight shot (interstate grade) from the 375 loop road, just E of the RR track (and Railroad Dr) with clearance and movement of the present Gun Club out of that area. A straight shot, up to the "saddle" of Anthony Gap, which is in New Mexico, where it would meet present two lane NM 404.   404 would be double barreled, W to current Exit 162, on I-10.  This exit shows some foresight for such a possibility, the frontage on the W side of 10 has been moved back, to allow a possible future high speed ramp from 10 S towards a future facility.   Am going to call this future facility Interstate 210, as that is what is should be named, and it denotes what design parameters it needs to meet.  This route needs to have a variable width median, of minimum 88 feet, extending up to 150 feet, once it departs the El Paso environs several miles S of the NM/TX state line.   All the way to Exit 162.  Cheaping out, and building a "poor boy" or a "flush median" type of roadway is simply unacceptable. 
   Yes the "improvements" to 10 on the W side of El Paso are essentially finished.  They did lock in a  lot of the long standing geometrical deficiencies on 10 as part of this project.  Curve and Hill.  The idea may? have been with the 375 tollway, to provide "redundancy" to existing 10.  Ironic, was under the belief the texdot was moving away from toll facilities.  Indeed, there is still a "toll deferral" status on the thing.  Have to wonder, if they do proceed to enact a toll, even minimal, will most of the traffic, now on the tollway, then go back to 10, leaving the tollway essentially empty?   
   My argument was that the long standing geometrical problems with 10 should have been fixed, via straightening and widening, and redundancy provided for with the addition of one way frontage, down to the N outskirts of the UTEP campus.   Basically 12 to 16 lanes of total capacity, from Exit 11, Mesa Dr, to roughly MP 17 on the N end of the UTEP campus.  The surviving Paisano Drive US-85, which hugs the border, would have been absorbed into this large facility.  10 also needs the downtown section opened up to a full eight lanes, and provisions made for an eight lane mainline all the way to Anthony Exit 0, so including the current one way frontage - 12 total lanes.  This could have already been in place, instead of the piecemeal interchange replacements of the past twenty years.   

[Bobby5280]

There needs to be a straight shot (interstate grade) from the 375 loop road, just E of the RR track (and Railroad Dr) with clearance and movement of the present Gun Club out of that area.

There are plans in the works for a "Northeast Parkway," starting at Loop 375 East of Railroad Drive. The proposed road would do a big curve around the West side of the gun club. The road would cross Dyer Street and US-54 heading Northwest. The highway would end along MLK Blvd (FM 3255) just South of the NM/TX border. New Mexico would have to come up with their own way how to connect the road into I-10 (if they bothered to do anything). At any rate, the whole thing does indeed amount to a potential I-210 corridor that would allow a lot of long distance, thru traffic to avoid the busy parts of El Paso.

This plan apparently had been in the works for more than a decade, but unfortunately appears to not be making any progress at getting funded.

Regardless of whatever happens I-10 will need continual improvements in the El Paso area. Border traffic may only increase there. I'm sure there will be lasting impact from the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic on US-Chinese relations. The worsening political situation, along with blatant IP & tech theft in China, should eventually encourage American manufacturers to reduce the amount of production they're doing in China. Mexico isn't the easiest place to do business, but plenty of American manufacturers already operate there. In the long term I think Africa could turn into a manufacturing hot bed, provided if the political climate in certain countries can stabilize. By 2050 the African continent will have the majority of the world's youth, thanks to falling birth rates in most other places.

[DJStephens]

There needs to be a straight shot (interstate grade) from the 375 loop road, just E of the RR track (and Railroad Dr) with clearance and movement of the present Gun Club out of that area.

There are plans in the works for a "Northeast Parkway," starting at Loop 375 East of Railroad Drive. The proposed road would do a big curve around the West side of the gun club. The roa would cross Dyer Street and US-54 heading Northwest. The highway would end along MLK Blvd (FM 3255) just South of the NM/TX border. New Mexico would have to come up with their own way how to connect the road into I-10 (if they bothered to do anything). At any rate, the whole thing does indeed amount to a potential I-210 corridor that would allow a lot of long distance, thru traffic to avoid the busy parts of El Paso.

This plan apparently had been in the works for more than a decade, but unfortunately appears to not be making any progress at getting funded.

Yes have seen that study.  It needs to be better (especially where it meets the current loop 375)  There are sub-standard sections on 375 further south, mainly where the "spur 601" was connected.  The mainlines of 375 were actually shifted where a new overpass was constructed.   Lousy policy, to downgrade a section of critical infrastructure like that.   

[CanesFan27]

Maps - we use them to figure our way around places, to get from one place to another.  Or sometimes, highlight them to mark where we've been.  But a gas station road map used as an integral part of solving an international border dispute?  That's what a 1958 Esso Map of El Paso, Texas did.

A feature on Chamizal National Memorial in El Paso.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2022/02/the-1958-esso-el-paso-map-that-solved.html

Also, parts of Interstate 110, the United States Port of Entry on 110, and the Bridge of Americas make up the eastern boundary of Cordova Island.  So for a trivia answer, parts of Interstate 110 are located on land that was once part of Mexico as late as the 1960s.

[jtespi]

Hello everyone,
I know there hasn't been much activity on this thread but I wanted to share some updated news on freeway construction in El Paso.

The formerly Northeast Parkway project is now called the Borderland Expressway project and there's currently a virtual public hearing being held by TxDOT until next Friday (June 24).
The link to the TxDOT website is https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/el-paso/northeastpky-lp375-fm3325.html

Besides the name change (which I think is too similar to the existing Border West Expressway), the project plans are improved in that they aren't planning on taking a shortcut by only building out the road as a super-two. The final completed form will be a 4-lane freeway. It is not planned to be a toll road. If some news articles from KFOX are accurate, the New Mexico portion of the project (NM-404 and NM-213) is already funded as an upgrade from the current 2-lane road to a 4-lane expressway.

I'm not sure when the New Mexico portion construction will start but the Texas portion of the road is scheduled to start construction by 2025.

[The Ghostbuster]

Has anyone gone to El Paso, and fallen in love with a Mexican girl, like Marty Robbins did?

[kwellada]

Has anyone gone to El Paso, and fallen in love with a Mexican girl, like Marty Robbins did?

I had a tiny crush on a waitress in Las Cruces. Does that count?