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NY 17/"I-86"

Started by newyorker478, October 27, 2011, 07:54:53 PM

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PHLBOS

Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2018, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2018, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2018, 11:46:45 AM
So basically your typical RIDOT shield. Got it.
Not quite.  Here's an example of a standard RI route shield:
[image snipped]

The rectangular signs with the Interstate-looking RI 195 shields did not feature a black rectangular border.
That's not what I meant (courtesy Alps's site)

Yes on that border/background.  Your typical RIDOT shield wording initially threw me off & lead me to assume that you meant RI's state highway shields.

Quote from: Roadsguy on February 05, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
Were the white square backgrounds used even on the overhead signs like a white version of what New Jersey does?
I don't believe so.
GPS does NOT equal GOD


AMLNet49

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 06, 2018, 11:39:11 AM
Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2018, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2018, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2018, 11:46:45 AM
So basically your typical RIDOT shield. Got it.
Not quite.  Here's an example of a standard RI route shield:
[image snipped]

The rectangular signs with the Interstate-looking RI 195 shields did not feature a black rectangular border.
That's not what I meant (courtesy Alps's site)

Yes on that border/background.  Your typical RIDOT shield wording initially threw me off & lead me to assume that you meant RI's state highway shields.

Quote from: Roadsguy on February 05, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
Were the white square backgrounds used even on the overhead signs like a white version of what New Jersey does?
I don't believe so.
Yea he really meant some typical RIDOT non-cutout bullshit

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on February 05, 2018, 05:42:01 PM
Why fudge it? The entire project was a waste of time.

Leave 86 the mess that is and never add anymore upgrades.

Best solution: Get rid of the number altogether, extend I-88 West to Erie via a 2 mile duplex with I-81.  Return the portion east of I-81 to NY 17.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Mr_Northside

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 09, 2018, 01:40:27 AM
Best solution: Get rid of the number altogether, extend I-88 West to Erie via a 2 mile duplex with I-81.  Return the portion east of I-81 to NY 17.

Though, at this point, if one were to do something like that, it might be more efficient to extend I-86 eastward to replace I-88 instead.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

Roadgeek Adam

And we couldn't just take down the I-86 shields instead? It's not like all of the 17 shields have vanished.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

kalvado

I may be confused here - but  is there any relation between interstate designation and federal funding? I had an impression interstates funding is  separate from state roads.

cl94

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on February 09, 2018, 04:26:00 PM
And we couldn't just take down the I-86 shields instead? It's not like all of the 17 shields have vanished.

Eh, Region 5 isn't putting them up and hasn't for ages. Region 6 is because of who's in charge of signs.

Quote from: kalvado on February 09, 2018, 04:56:32 PM
I may be confused here - but  is there any relation between interstate designation and federal funding? I had an impression interstates funding is  separate from state roads.

Yes and no. Most of the separate Interstate funding is for construction. Otherwise, the federal funding is typically tied to National Highway System status. Being as NY 17 is already NHS for its entire length (except maybe the surface portion south of Exit 131), the only real benefits to Interstate designation are recognition and partial funding for upgrades to meet Interstate standards. That is why NYSDOT hasn't gone crazy trying to upgrade the thing except where there are real operational issues.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Buffaboy

This weekend was my first time driving on the "Quickway". It certainly isn't Interstate-grade yet, but there is work being done on several bridges. There were a few times I had to slow down to 45 MPH because I was entering a work zone.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

seicer

Maintenance. Some of those bridges are receiving structural improvements while others are getting a rubberized asphalt chip seal to waterproof the deck and increase friction.

cl94

It's worth noting that much of the Quickway in Delaware and Sullivan Counties, minus Hale Eddy, is exempt from major upgrades due to the mountainous terrain. They do need to realign a handful of ramps and lengthen acceleration/deceleration lanes, but that is relatively cheap. The "Exit 111" RIRO can just be closed off (and the only reason it hasn't is that local residents have been fighting it). Most of the major work that isn't Hale Eddy at this point is east of I-84, where there is a metric crapton of substandard ramps. Heck, signs are already up between Hancock and I-84.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

coolkevs

Drove through the NY 17/I 81 intersection over the last couple of weeks.  Progress being made but looks like it should be done in spring/early summer?? BGS off to the side showing I-86 signage. Going west on 17, I-86 reassurance signs are up. Had to get off on Airport Rd, so not sure how far it is signed going toward Corning.

GreenLanternCorps

Quote from: coolkevs on October 30, 2018, 10:43:28 AM
Drove through the NY 17/I 81 intersection over the last couple of weeks.  Progress being made but looks like it should be done in spring/early summer?? BGS off to the side showing I-86 signage. Going west on 17, I-86 reassurance signs are up. Had to get off on Airport Rd, so not sure how far it is signed going toward Corning.

Per Google Maps as of July 2018, NY 17 was also marked "To I-86" above the NY 17 Marker:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1195996,-75.9542596,3a,75y,272.77h,87.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s44Ryjw6BRt84qnvQ_Z_AVw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

webny99

Last I checked NYSDOT's site, Prospect Mountain is scheduled to be complete by fall of 2019, i.e. one year from now. I passed through this summer and it was definitely getting there. The mainline of future I-86 eastbound was the only bridge left to be built, and piers were going up for it. After decades of construction, I am very much looking forward to completion!

Michael

I was on NY 17 from Binghamton to Goshen on the first weekend of this month.  From what I saw, it looks like the NY 17 eastbound bridge in Binghamton has all the piers built, and just needs the spans.

The bridge work mentioned a few posts up looked to me like deck repair and/or replacement.  I would have expected widening since the shoulders on most of the bridges are pretty narrow.

I would say that the biggest barriers to conversion other than the intersections are curve radii and shoulder width.  From around Liberty to Middletown, there are various I-86 shields, some uncovered, and some covered.

seicer

I've seen quite a few uncovered, and none in the past year or so have been covered back up. I don't think it's much of a secret anymore. And with the Prospect Mountain project - I've noticed permanent I-86 shields in place, uncovered, that the state just isn't covering up. I suspect that it's moot at this point since I-86 exists west and east of the project and there is no real harm in leaving it uncovered.

GreenLanternCorps

How much of NY 17 from I-84 to Windsor meets or is being upgraded to Interstate standards?  A lot of it is freeway, but when looking at the freeway portions on Google maps, a lot of the interchange ramps appear to be substandard (short ramps, not enough space to merge).

cl94

Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 02, 2018, 11:39:19 AM
How much of NY 17 from I-84 to Windsor meets or is being upgraded to Interstate standards?  A lot of it is freeway, but when looking at the freeway portions on Google maps, a lot of the interchange ramps appear to be substandard (short ramps, not enough space to merge).

Here's the major work remaining:

- Hale Eddy bypass between Deposit and Hancock. These are the only at-grades left on the Quickway. Not a high priority right now due to low volumes.
- Rock Hill RIRO (Exit 111). NYSDOT and the feds want to close it off to fix it because another exit is a mile away, locals are fighting.
- Acceleration/deceleration lanes in a few places (generally an easy fix)
- Exit 90 WB entrance ramp
- Exits 92/93 ramps

The last two MAY qualify for an exemption due to the mountainous terrain. I know that there are no planned major upgrades remaining west of I-84 other than Hale Eddy.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

AMLNet49

Quote from: cl94 on November 02, 2018, 12:32:14 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 02, 2018, 11:39:19 AM
How much of NY 17 from I-84 to Windsor meets or is being upgraded to Interstate standards?  A lot of it is freeway, but when looking at the freeway portions on Google maps, a lot of the interchange ramps appear to be substandard (short ramps, not enough space to merge).

Here's the major work remaining:

- Hale Eddy bypass between Deposit and Hancock. These are the only at-grades left on the Quickway. Not a high priority right now due to low volumes.
- Rock Hill RIRO (Exit 111). NYSDOT and the feds want to close it off to fix it because another exit is a mile away, locals are fighting.
- Acceleration/deceleration lanes in a few places (generally an easy fix)
- Exit 90 WB entrance ramp
- Exits 92/93 ramps

The last two MAY qualify for an exemption due to the mountainous terrain. I know that there are no planned major upgrades remaining west of I-84 other than Hale Eddy.

That’s just the major work left to do that is actually scheduled right? From 84 to 87 needs currently unfunded upgrades right? Not that I take issue *at all* with them signing 86 from 84 and all these other spots where it isn’t official yet, hell I wish they’d sign 86 from 87 too, I’m just clarifying that there’s more work beyond just that list isn’t there?

vdeane

I don't think any of those are presently scheduled (nor any of the more minor projects west of I-84).  East of I-84 needs major work; the only one of those projects presently being done is exit 131, and that's to deal with traffic in the area, not as part of a push to get I-86 finished.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Rothman

As I have stated on here multiple times before, the push for I-86 is just not as strong as it was 10 years ago due to other priorities NYSDOT had (e.g., keeping bridges from falling down).  Until there is another Moynihan, it will not happen in the near future.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

cl94

Quote from: AMLNet49 on November 03, 2018, 07:47:22 PM

That's just the major work left to do that is actually scheduled right? From 84 to 87 needs currently unfunded upgrades right? Not that I take issue *at all* with them signing 86 from 84 and all these other spots where it isn't official yet, hell I wish they'd sign 86 from 87 too, I'm just clarifying that there's more work beyond just that list isn't there?

No, that's the major work (not scheduled) required west of 84, as that is what was asked. There is FAR more remaining.

Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2018, 01:03:50 PM
As I have stated on here multiple times before, the push for I-86 is just not as strong as it was 10 years ago due to other priorities NYSDOT had (e.g., keeping bridges from falling down).  Until there is another Moynihan, it will not happen in the near future.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Which I've been trying to hint at. Nor do I think it is necessary. There are far more important things than spending a hundred million or more bypassing Hale Eddy. The Quickway works as-is. Does it need a widening east of 84? Certainly. But a full Interstate upgrade west of there just isn't justified with how little traffic the corridor gets. It's not like the Quickway through the Catskills is a particularly unsafe road.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

sparker

Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2018, 01:03:50 PM
As I have stated on here multiple times before, the push for I-86 is just not as strong as it was 10 years ago due to other priorities NYSDOT had (e.g., keeping bridges from falling down).  Until there is another Moynihan, it will not happen in the near future.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Without regularly programmed federal funding input (as with previous chargeable and Howard-Kramer $$) states are placed in the unenviable position of not being able to follow through on longstanding plans such as I-86.  It's a shame that we have legislators (at all levels and in both parties) who tremble at the presence of vocal blocs who view any public revenues as virtual theft -- resentful that their tax dollars can be used to enhance activities that either don't meet with their specific approval or will benefit those who, in their minds, don't deserve it!  The notion of a "common good" has been, over the last few decades, sadly lacking -- or appropriated by some with a narrow or even speculative agenda.

Maybe I-86 will be done one little sliver at a time, maybe not -- but its situation is certainly indicative of the current state of general public-sector dysfunction! 

hbelkins

My comment, and position, on this is pretty much the same as it is for any other full freeways that don't meet some arbitrary standard to get that red, white & blue shield-shaped highway marker. Can the average motorist tell a difference between, say, the sections of NY 17 between Binghamton and Corning that haven't been upgraded to currently have the I-86 signage, and those that have? I say not. Until I-65 got widened south of Elizabethtown, I used to say that a passenger could fall asleep at Munfordville or Glendale, and then wake up at Bardstown on the Bluegrass Parkway, and not know that he or she wasn't on an interstate anymore.

Hale Eddy is the obvious fly in the ointment here, but my point still stands. I think it's goofy that Kentucky has had to spend so much to convert the Purchase, WK and Pennyrile Parkways to I-69 when really the only thing that needed to be done was eliminate the tollbooth cloverleafs.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

cl94

Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2018, 02:15:39 PM
My comment, and position, on this is pretty much the same as it is for any other full freeways that don't meet some arbitrary standard to get that red, white & blue shield-shaped highway marker. Can the average motorist tell a difference between, say, the sections of NY 17 between Binghamton and Corning that haven't been upgraded to currently have the I-86 signage, and those that have? I say not.

Of course not. NY 17 is built to the same standard as many sections of Interstate in the Northeast outside of Hale Eddy and BETTER than many urban segments. It just can't get the shield because AASHTO stopped grandfathering segments into the system. Even with Hale Eddy, NY 17 is better than most of I-78 PA and I-80 in Stroudsburg.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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02 Park Ave

A coalition, 17-Forward-86, was in the state capital yesterday calling for the widening of Route 17 for 22 miles west of the Thruway.  They want it to be three lanes in each direction.
C-o-H



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