Northern Ohio Visit & Observations, Aug 2022:

Started by thenetwork, August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM

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thenetwork

Spent a week back in my old stomping grounds of Northeast Ohio as a tourist.  Here are my random notes:

Overall, the conditions of most of the freeways around Cleveland were pretty decent, with the exception of I-490 in Cleveland.  I know I-90 West of the Innerbelt will be overhauled next year, but we did not travel it, nor the Turnpike.

What Clearview signs there were were done very well!  I did not see anything that looked way off.

Interesting to see portable flashing variable speed limit signs within construction zones -- that was new for me.

One aesthetician observation I have seen around Cleveland, Akron and down I-71 to Columbus:  Maintenance of the pillars of the freeway overpasses and the bridges themselves are embarrassing!  There are a LOT of bridges, especially over 40-50 years where the concrete pillars have pieces cracking off, exposing the rebar, especially along the north end of I-271.  That and the amount of bridges with netting, plywood and/or metal sheets catching debris from the underside of the bridge decks.
I know they use rock salt on the roads in winter, but there has to be a better rehabbing solutions to the concrete pillars and bridge sides -- not to mention the exposed painted metal girders that seem to show rust spots not too long after they are repainted.

On the oldest sections of I-71 between Medina and Columbus, ODOT in past years tried to solve the cracking pillar problems by wrapping them with another layer of concrete and rear, while the more recent rehab jobs use some sort of plastic/polymer jacket wrap around the pillars that looks butt-ugly (again, another new thing I've seen).

With all the cracking and crumbling I've seen, ODOT is really needing to start replacing more of these dinosaur bridges with newer bridges instead of these short-term band-aids.  Yes, it will cost a lot of $$, but like roadbeds, they do have a finite shelf life and they are quickly nearing it.

I like what they did within the I-271/I-480 duplex, splitting the two routes sooner on the south end by Broadway-Forbes.  Same with the SR-8/i-271 interchange.

In Akron, I was VERY surprised that the entire outbound Innerbelt (SR-59) from Downtown to I-76/77 West was closed.  Weird seeing newer signs over freeway lanes with significant weeds/grass growing between the concrete cuts.

Nice to see I-76 3-laned in each direction between I-277 and SR-21.  The section West of SR-21 to I-71 is very close to needing a 3rd lane per direction.

What the City of Cleveland and ODOT did to the West end of the West Shoreway is a joke ‐‐ it still looks and feels like a 55 MPH freeway and not a 35 MPH boulevard, with the exception of the removal of the overhead sign gantries.

The Opportunity Corridor (SR-10) from I-77 to the Cleveland Clinic campus is wonderful.  SR-10 is now well signed between Chester Avenue (US 322) and I-77 into it's former eastern terminus.  And outside of rush hour saves a noticeable amount of time versus the Carnegie/Euclid/Chester corridor options.

And why ODOT still cannot raise the urban speed limits on their freeways to 65 or 70 MPH outside of the Downtown areas is STILL a head scratcher.

Enough for now.


Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
What Clearview signs there were were done very well!  I did not see anything that looked way off.

Interesting to see portable flashing variable speed limit signs within construction zones -- that was new for me.
The Variable speed limit signs have come about in the last year or two, during covid.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
One aesthetician observation I have seen around Cleveland, Akron and down I-71 to Columbus:  Maintenance of the pillars of the freeway overpasses and the bridges themselves are embarrassing!  There are a LOT of bridges, especially over 40-50 years where the concrete pillars have pieces cracking off, exposing the rebar, especially along the north end of I-271.  That and the amount of bridges with netting, plywood and/or metal sheets catching debris from the underside of the bridge decks.
I know they use rock salt on the roads in winter, but there has to be a better rehabbing solutions to the concrete pillars and bridge sides -- not to mention the exposed painted metal girders that seem to show rust spots not too long after they are repainted.

On the oldest sections of I-71 between Medina and Columbus, ODOT in past years tried to solve the cracking pillar problems by wrapping them with another layer of concrete and rear, while the more recent rehab jobs use some sort of plastic/polymer jacket wrap around the pillars that looks butt-ugly (again, another new thing I've seen).

With all the cracking and crumbling I've seen, ODOT is really needing to start replacing more of these dinosaur bridges with newer bridges instead of these short-term band-aids.  Yes, it will cost a lot of $$, but like roadbeds, they do have a finite shelf life and they are quickly nearing it.
When I-71 was widened between Columbus & Cleveland (between 2001 and 2016) all the bridge piers got a new coating of plastic concrete, while the bridge beds got sandblasted and new paint jobs. Those piers haven't aged well. The jacket wraps I thought were protection from wayward vehicles (since they normally only cover the lower half of the piers)
Otherwise, ODOT is in the band-aid business, and other than Voinovich, has been this way since the end of the Rhodes era in 1982.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
In Akron, I was VERY surprised that the entire outbound Innerbelt (SR-59) from Downtown to I-76/77 West was closed.  Weird seeing newer signs over freeway lanes with significant weeds/grass growing between the concrete cuts.
The rebuild of the Akron beltway has flown under the radar in the various road groups on the internet.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
What the City of Cleveland and ODOT did to the West end of the West Shoreway is a joke ‐‐ it still looks and feels like a 55 MPH freeway and not a 35 MPH boulevard, with the exception of the removal of the overhead sign gantries.
You'll find no middle ground on what was done to the West Shoreway. Critics say that they didn't slow traffic down enough, or should have extended the freeway further.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
And why ODOT still cannot raise the urban speed limits on their freeways to 65 or 70 MPH outside of the Downtown areas is STILL a head scratcher.

Enough for now.
Cincy is the same way for urban speed limits. Columbus is the outlier with I-70, 71, 670, and 315 all 65 MPH till you reach the innerbelt.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Bitmapped

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 28, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
One aesthetician observation I have seen around Cleveland, Akron and down I-71 to Columbus:  Maintenance of the pillars of the freeway overpasses and the bridges themselves are embarrassing!  There are a LOT of bridges, especially over 40-50 years where the concrete pillars have pieces cracking off, exposing the rebar, especially along the north end of I-271.  That and the amount of bridges with netting, plywood and/or metal sheets catching debris from the underside of the bridge decks.
I know they use rock salt on the roads in winter, but there has to be a better rehabbing solutions to the concrete pillars and bridge sides -- not to mention the exposed painted metal girders that seem to show rust spots not too long after they are repainted.

On the oldest sections of I-71 between Medina and Columbus, ODOT in past years tried to solve the cracking pillar problems by wrapping them with another layer of concrete and rear, while the more recent rehab jobs use some sort of plastic/polymer jacket wrap around the pillars that looks butt-ugly (again, another new thing I've seen).

With all the cracking and crumbling I've seen, ODOT is really needing to start replacing more of these dinosaur bridges with newer bridges instead of these short-term band-aids.  Yes, it will cost a lot of $$, but like roadbeds, they do have a finite shelf life and they are quickly nearing it.

A lot of these bridges have been rebuilt already. The abutments get repaired, the decks are removed and replaced, bearings are often upgraded, and abutments generally get converted to integral or semi-integral. Most of these bridges don't need full tear-downs.

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 28, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM

When I-71 was widened between Columbus & Cleveland (between 2001 and 2016) all the bridge piers got a new coating of plastic concrete, while the bridge beds got sandblasted and new paint jobs. Those piers haven't aged well. The jacket wraps I thought were protection from wayward vehicles (since they normally only cover the lower half of the piers)
Otherwise, ODOT is in the band-aid business, and other than Voinovich, has been this way since the end of the Rhodes era in 1982.

The plastic coverings are to protect the columns from saltwater and slush spray. The go high enough to cover the areas that tended get splashed on, which caused problems with rusting rebar and spalling. Is it a great looking solution? Not really, but it's a low cost way to protect the bridges from needing further work.

thenetwork

#3
Final observations:

I-90 West of Downtown:  Full overhaul/rebuild of Interstate between I-71/490 and Hilliard Blvd within the next few years: 

I see the need for a rehab east of Lorain/West Boulevard, but West of there, that stretch was recently resurfaced and is quite smooth!  So they plan to tear out perfectly good pavement while I-490 cries out for a full rebuild -- with crumbling original pavement from the late 80s/early 90s???

I have seen an above average amount of the overhead reflective signage along the area freeways have no reflectivity at all and/or peeling text and shields.

Miles Road is now Exit 1 on the secret , unsigned I-480N freeway connecting Official I-480 and the I-271/US-422 interchange?!??

Still a lot of scattered button copy signs still exist around Cleveland -- mostly off the interstates.  One particular area is along SR-17 as it parallels I-480 on the west side.  Some likely 1st generation signage from the 80s!!!  Same with the NW Columbus area along I-270.

Finally, under the "Did I See What I Thought I Saw" category:  Is ODOT *FINALLY* starting to just say "Erie" as a control city instead of "Erie PA (or Pa)"?  I could've sworn I saw one on NB I-271 along the I-480 duplex -- I was going SB.

Alps

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 28, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
What the City of Cleveland and ODOT did to the West end of the West Shoreway is a joke ‐‐ it still looks and feels like a 55 MPH freeway and not a 35 MPH boulevard, with the exception of the removal of the overhead sign gantries.
You'll find no middle ground on what was done to the West Shoreway. Critics say that they didn't slow traffic down enough, or should have extended the freeway further.
So this is where US 20 returns back to at-grade? What exactly was done there? I don't notice a difference from a map.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 08:26:36 PM

Still a lot of scattered button copy signs still exist around Cleveland -- mostly off the interstates.  One particular area is along SR-17 as it parallels I-480 on the west side.  Some likely 1st generation signage from the 80s!!!  Same with the NW Columbus area along I-270.
*adds 17 to his short-term clinch list*

thenetwork

Quote from: Alps on August 28, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 28, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
What the City of Cleveland and ODOT did to the West end of the West Shoreway is a joke ‐‐ it still looks and feels like a 55 MPH freeway and not a 35 MPH boulevard, with the exception of the removal of the overhead sign gantries.
You'll find no middle ground on what was done to the West Shoreway. Critics say that they didn't slow traffic down enough, or should have extended the freeway further.
So this is where US 20 returns back to at-grade? What exactly was done there? I don't notice a difference from a map.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 08:26:36 PM

Still a lot of scattered button copy signs still exist around Cleveland -- mostly off the interstates.  One particular area is along SR-17 as it parallels I-480 on the west side.  Some likely 1st generation signage from the 80s!!!  Same with the NW Columbus area along I-270.
*adds 17 to his short-term clinch list*

TEASER:  23298 OH-17
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7LKtD7EYYw7r7o8k6

amroad17

Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 08:26:36 PM
Final observations:

I-90 West of Downtown:  Full overhaul/rebuild of Interstate between I-71/490 and Hilliard Blvd within the next few years: 

I see the need for a rehab east of Lorain/West Boulevard, but West of there, that stretch was recently resurfaced and is quite smooth!  So they plan to tear out perfectly good pavement while I-490 cries out for a full rebuild -- with crumbling original pavement from the late 80s/early 90s???

I have seen an above average amount of the overhead reflective signage along the area freeways have no reflectivity at all and/or peeling text and shields.

Still a lot of scattered button copy signs still exist around Cleveland -- mostly off the interstates.  One particular area is along SR-17 as it parallels I-480 on the west side.  Some likely 1st generation signage from the 80s!!!  Same with the NW Columbus area along I-270.

Finally, under the "Did I See What I Thought I Saw" category:  Is ODOT *FINALLY* starting to just say "Erie" as a control city instead of "Erie PA (or Pa)"?  I could've sworn I saw one on NB I-271 along the I-480 duplex -- I was going SB.
You saw it correctly! https://goo.gl/maps/iAdVUTJfgY2H7UgB7

As far as West Shoreway, I see on GSV that OH 2/US 20/US 6 west of Exit 193 is considered a boulevard now--even though, as thenetwork has mentioned, it has the look and feel of a freeway.  There are, what I like to call "boulevard LGS's", denoting where the exits are along the route verses BGS's posted on overheads. https://goo.gl/maps/uNibnrASqY28v6fx8  OH 2/US 20/US 6 are at-grade at Lake Ave. just after the exit ramp to West Blvd.--the same place when the West Shoreway was a freeway.

To paraphrase Mitch Hedberg concerning the West Shoreway, "I used to be a freeway.  I still really am, but I used to be too."
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 28, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 28, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
What the City of Cleveland and ODOT did to the West end of the West Shoreway is a joke ‐‐ it still looks and feels like a 55 MPH freeway and not a 35 MPH boulevard, with the exception of the removal of the overhead sign gantries.
You'll find no middle ground on what was done to the West Shoreway. Critics say that they didn't slow traffic down enough, or should have extended the freeway further.
So this is where US 20 returns back to at-grade? What exactly was done there? I don't notice a difference from a map.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 08:26:36 PM

Still a lot of scattered button copy signs still exist around Cleveland -- mostly off the interstates.  One particular area is along SR-17 as it parallels I-480 on the west side.  Some likely 1st generation signage from the 80s!!!  Same with the NW Columbus area along I-270.
*adds 17 to his short-term clinch list*

TEASER:  23298 OH-17
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7LKtD7EYYw7r7o8k6


I dunno. That sign seem a little worse for wear when I saw it, two months prior to Google Car...

Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

amroad17

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 29, 2022, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 28, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 28, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 27, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
What the City of Cleveland and ODOT did to the West end of the West Shoreway is a joke ‐‐ it still looks and feels like a 55 MPH freeway and not a 35 MPH boulevard, with the exception of the removal of the overhead sign gantries.
You'll find no middle ground on what was done to the West Shoreway. Critics say that they didn't slow traffic down enough, or should have extended the freeway further.
So this is where US 20 returns back to at-grade? What exactly was done there? I don't notice a difference from a map.

Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2022, 08:26:36 PM

Still a lot of scattered button copy signs still exist around Cleveland -- mostly off the interstates.  One particular area is along SR-17 as it parallels I-480 on the west side.  Some likely 1st generation signage from the 80s!!!  Same with the NW Columbus area along I-270.
*adds 17 to his short-term clinch list*

TEASER:  23298 OH-17
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7LKtD7EYYw7r7o8k6


I dunno. That sign seem a little worse for wear when I saw it, two months prior to Google Car...


Two different signs.  Yours is the sign on the right in the following from GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/cmVt5tntRTz2SAaL9   thenetwork's sign is across the street.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)



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