Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

[Interstate 69 Fan]

Apparently, Google Maps has decided that I-11 has already replaced I-515 through Las Vegas. 

That's new... And definitely an error.

Certainly an error for now

But also, perhaps foresight!

And yet I've been trying to get a new interchange in Wisconsin to show up on Google Maps for over a month

Which one?

[Henry]

Apparently, Google Maps has decided that I-11 has already replaced I-515 through Las Vegas. 

That's new... And definitely an error.

Certainly an error for now

But also, perhaps foresight!

I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually I-11's route in Las Vegas; it certainly would provide a straight shot through there on its way to Reno.

[sparker]

Apparently, Google Maps has decided that I-11 has already replaced I-515 through Las Vegas. 

That's new... And definitely an error.

Certainly an error for now

But also, perhaps foresight!

I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually I-11's route in Las Vegas; it certainly would provide a straight shot through there on its way to Reno.

Odds are that you're correct; the I-515/US 95 path through town is likely to end up the actual I-11 route, especially after they sunk a lot of $$ into the Spaghetti Bowl.  The only way a western loop via 215 would fly is if (a) Strip casino executives raised a ruckus about I-11 coming close to their properties, and (b) a plan to "cut off" the northwest corner with a direct connector to US 95 was forwarded and approved.  And while an outer eastern loop still seems to be in play, if that option is selected I-11 may be subject to numerous delays, particularly since it'll be partially situated within a national recreational area; completing the EIS alone will likely be a long drawn-out process.  Given the fact that any alternative except US 95 through town will require significant expenditure, the existing in-town corridor will be the path of least resistance. 

[Bobby5280]

This situation reminds me of the old folded paper maps from decades ago which often had a brief explanation of Interstate highway numbering. The primary 2-digit routes would take the most direct route through the city while the 3-digit routes functioned as bypasses around the city (or odd-numbered spurs to other parts of that immediate region). I-15 already takes a direct route through Las Vegas, not around it. To me it would only make sense to keep I-11 on US-95 through the middle of Las Vegas (eating I-515 in the process). Let I-215 get expanded around the West and North sides of the city. If planners can get it done, a new East side loop could carry another designation, such as I-415 or even I-211.

[Occidental Tourist]

The primary 2-digit routes would take the most direct route through the city while the 3-digit routes functioned as bypasses around the city (or odd-numbered spurs to other parts of that immediate region).

That stopped being a truism decades ago.  San Bernardino, Riverside, and San Diego on the 15 alone are examples of that being abandoned as a policy.  We could probably start a whole other thread on how many primary interstates bypass the major city along them with a 3di being the direct route through that city.

[sparker]

The primary 2-digit routes would take the most direct route through the city while the 3-digit routes functioned as bypasses around the city (or odd-numbered spurs to other parts of that immediate region).

That stopped being a truism decades ago.  San Bernardino, Riverside, and San Diego on the 15 alone are examples of that being abandoned as a policy.  We could probably start a whole other thread on how many primary interstates bypass the major city along them with a 3di being the direct route through that city.

That particular rule is like the English language:  several examples of compliance but plenty of exceptions.  Just head east on I-80 in the Midwest; the trunk route goes through central Omaha while I-680 forms a bypass, but a half-state away, I-80 (multiplexed with I-35) goes around the Des Moines central city, while a 3di (in this case I-235) goes through the middle.  Another "adjacent opposite" situation is in OK, where I-40 takes the central path through OKC while I-240 is part of an effective bypass.  But to the northeast, I-44 goes around downtown Tulsa (although that bypass has effectively been subsumed by city development) and child I-244 passes through downtown. 

If anyone wants to start a thread elaborating on bypass vs. in-city trunk instances, it might prove interesting -- particularly if the reasons for each variation are explored in some level of depth.

[WR of USA]

Or they should call the eastern loop I-711 just for the heck of it.

[US 89]

Or they should call the eastern loop I-711 just for the heck of it.

Assuming I-11 is routed through the city on US 95 (as it should be, IMO) if the eastern loop winds up actually getting built, it's more likely to be numbered 215 to go along with the rest of the beltway -- whether that's I-215, CC 215, or even SR 215 (though that would break Nevada's route numbering scheme).

I suppose if 11 gets routed onto an eastern loop, then US 95 between there and the Spaghetti Bowl could become I-711, though I'd rather see an even x11 for that, replacing I-515 as well.

But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a push for 711. Although we're getting into fictional territory here, maybe 711 could be used for a spur to Reno or Carson City?

[MantyMadTown]

Apparently, Google Maps has decided that I-11 has already replaced I-515 through Las Vegas. 

That's new... And definitely an error.

Certainly an error for now

But also, perhaps foresight!

And yet I've been trying to get a new interchange in Wisconsin to show up on Google Maps for over a month

Which one?

The one between US 10/WIS 441 and I-41. WISDOT reconstructed the interchange and added new ramps (41 NB to 10 WB and 10 EB to 41 NB). It's shown up on OpenStreetMap since the new interchange opened up this July, but it still hasn't shown up on Google Maps.

[sparker]

Or they should call the eastern loop I-711 just for the heck of it.

Assuming I-11 is routed through the city on US 95 (as it should be, IMO) if the eastern loop winds up actually getting built, it's more likely to be numbered 215 to go along with the rest of the beltway -- whether that's I-215, CC 215, or even SR 215 (though that would break Nevada's route numbering scheme).

I suppose if 11 gets routed onto an eastern loop, then US 95 between there and the Spaghetti Bowl could become I-711, though I'd rather see an even x11 for that, replacing I-515 as well.

But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a push for 711. Although we're getting into fictional territory here, maybe 711 could be used for a spur to Reno or Carson City?

The chances are that an eastern loop would even be considered for anything but a I-11 route are slim; since it wouldn't hit existing I-11 (or even I-515) at the current 215/515 interchange but instead further SE near Railroad Pass, any iteration of the "215" designation probably wouldn't be considered.  That loop segment will either be adopted as a I-11 bypass of metro LV or it won't be considered at all. 

[Sub-Urbanite]

And, just to be clear: That eastern loop is not going to survive any EIS.

[theroadwayone]

Or they should call the eastern loop I-711 just for the heck of it.

Do it. 7-11 would enjoy the publicity for decades; hell, they could even provide Slurpees at the opening ceremony.

[mapman1071]

Resign I-515/US 95 as I-11/US 95 as far north as Mercury and possibly resign I-215/CC215 as I-211

[sparker]

Resign I-515/US 95 as I-11/US 95 as far north as Mercury and possibly resign I-215/CC215 as I-211

Doubt whether a redesignation of 215 would happen; that number has now been in service for well over 20 years and is pretty much entrenched in the local lexicon.  And it'll intersect I-15 at two points, so the numbering is both technically and practically valid.  The only section that would be renumbered would be between US 95 NW of town and the northern I-15 junction -- and only if I-11 by some fluke were to be routed over the eastern loop!  But the sentiment expressed a couple of posts ago is probably accurate -- running an Interstate-grade freeway through NPS territory (here, the Lake Mead rec area) would likely be stopped in its tracks by an EIS -- or at least slowed down to the point that it is no longer a viable alternative. 

There's a few at-grade crossings to eliminate before I-11 could be signed all the way out to Mercury; however, the alignment does utilize Interstate-grade geometrics -- so it's a matter of separating the facilities in the few places that come into play. 

[inkyatari]

And, just to be clear: That eastern loop is not going to survive any EIS.

I don't see it happening from a logistical perspective, let alone an environmental one.

[sparker]

And, just to be clear: That eastern loop is not going to survive any EIS.

I don't see it happening from a logistical perspective, let alone an environmental one.

It's likely that whatever parties are still pushing for I-11 over an eastern loop are doing so for two reasons: (1) to avoid taking the through route through the congestion of the I-15/I-515/US 93/95 "Spaghetti Bowl" interchange, partially for the sake of I-11 efficiency but also to keep additional through traffic away from that location, and (2) to avoid the western half of the composite 215 loop, which is hardly direct and also funnels airport traffic to and from both the I-15 and I-515 corridors.  With the likelihood that a connecting route from the NW loop corner north to US 95 north of town would be required to complete that corridor option, some of the bypass-concept backers have opted for an eastern loop that can be "tailored" more toward the needs of through traffic than a suburban server. 

Nevertheless, there are just too many obstacles to constructing the eastern corridor that would either result in a compete abandonment of the idea or a series of delays that would result in a I-11 "gap" for more than a short term.  It's probably for the best that I-11 simply supplants I-515 and then follows US 95 north; anyone electing to bypass downtown can do so on the west 215 loop. 

[Bobby5280]

I think the Eastern Corridor concept is do-able. But it could take at least 10-20 years to build under the current US "model" of highway development and funding. It could be built significantly faster as a toll road -but the currently proposed path (skirting the East edge of Henderson, following E Lake Mead Pkwy through a mountain pass and then looping East of all the mountains South of Nellis AFB) would be a clear invitation to shun-pike. The Eastern Corridor is still an easy to justify highway project. But it's silly to require I-11 to run on it. We would be waiting til 2040 for the thing to get finished.

I-11 could be signed on US-95 up thru the NW outskirts of Las Vegas to the NV-157 intersection right now.

[sparker]

I think the Eastern Corridor concept is do-able. But it could take at least 10-20 years to build under the current US "model" of highway development and funding. It could be built significantly faster as a toll road -but the currently proposed path (skirting the East edge of Henderson, following E Lake Mead Pkwy through a mountain pass and then looping East of all the mountains South of Nellis AFB) would be a clear invitation to shun-pike. The Eastern Corridor is still an easy to justify highway project. But it's silly to require I-11 to run on it. We would be waiting still 2040 for the thing to get finished.

I-11 could be signed on US-95 up thru the NW outskirts of Las Vegas to the NV-157 intersection right now.

In agreement -- although to date NV has taken little interest in toll facilities, so eastside construction as a tolled road would be a bit of a stretch.  And while NDOT could, at least technically, sign I-11 over both the remainder of I-515 and US 95 north out of town to NV 157, they'll probably not do so until the alignment study previously mentioned has been completed.  Although others might have more up-to-date information, IIRC that study was to be completed by late 2019. 

Being NV, I wonder if any of the establishments who do that sort of thing have set odds regarding the finalization of a I-11 alignment choice through town?  I'd sure put a few bucks on the US 95 through-town routing! 

[roadfro]

Resign I-515/US 95 as I-11/US 95 as far north as Mercury and possibly resign I-215/CC215 as I-211

Doubt whether a redesignation of 215 would happen; that number has now been in service for well over 20 years and is pretty much entrenched in the local lexicon.  And it'll intersect I-15 at two points, so the numbering is both technically and practically valid.  The only section that would be renumbered would be between US 95 NW of town and the northern I-15 junction -- and only if I-11 by some fluke were to be routed over the eastern loop!  But the sentiment expressed a couple of posts ago is probably accurate -- running an Interstate-grade freeway through NPS territory (here, the Lake Mead rec area) would likely be stopped in its tracks by an EIS -- or at least slowed down to the point that it is no longer a viable alternative. 

There's a few at-grade crossings to eliminate before I-11 could be signed all the way out to Mercury; however, the alignment does utilize Interstate-grade geometrics -- so it's a matter of separating the facilities in the few places that come into play. 

There's no reason to re-sign 215 as 211...

Regardless of the route that is chosen for I-11 through Vegas, I sincerely doubt that NDOT will sign I-11 past I-15 anytime in the for seeable future. Reaching the 15 gives I-11 a bit of legitimacy as a two digit interstate intersecting another two digit interstate, But signing it north of there has no real navigational benefit until I-11 reaches I-80 in the much more distant future.

I think the Eastern Corridor concept is do-able. But it could take at least 10-20 years to build under the current US "model" of highway development and funding. It could be built significantly faster as a toll road -but the currently proposed path (skirting the East edge of Henderson, following E Lake Mead Pkwy through a mountain pass and then looping East of all the mountains South of Nellis AFB) would be a clear invitation to shun-pike. The Eastern Corridor is still an easy to justify highway project. But it's silly to require I-11 to run on it. We would be waiting still 2040 for the thing to get finished.

I-11 could be signed on US-95 up thru the NW outskirts of Las Vegas to the NV-157 intersection right now.

In agreement -- although to date NV has taken little interest in toll facilities, so eastside construction as a tolled road would be a bit of a stretch.  And while NDOT could, at least technically, sign I-11 over both the remainder of I-515 and US 95 north out of town to NV 157, they'll probably not do so until the alignment study previously mentioned has been completed.  Although others might have more up-to-date information, IIRC that study was to be completed by late 2019. 

Being NV, I wonder if any of the establishments who do that sort of thing have set odds regarding the finalization of a I-11 alignment choice through town?  I'd sure put a few bucks on the US 95 through-town routing! 

Nevada law currently prohibits toll roads, hence the lack of interest in tolling. (There was an initiative floating around a few years ago during the legislative session, possibly 2011 or 2013, to change state law to allow a toll road demonstration project to further explore potential for allowing tolling – the Boulder City Bypass would have been that project.

I concur with what someone said earlier: if the eastern alignment proposal is not chosen for I-11, that route through Lake Mead never gets built. The initial I-11 study is the first time such a corridor was even proposed. (Had Vegas ever built an eastern beltway section, that routing might've been more realistic for an I-11.)

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^
If I-11 does get signed all the way out to the end of the freeway at NV 157 (presuming, of course, that the US 95 alignment is selected), it'll be more to get a "foothold" on the route recognition than for navigational purposes (US 95 will remain the designation utilized for that purpose until considerably more of I-11 advances NW out of LV).  That concept is similar to that of the 25-mile initial I-14 signage near Fort Hood in TX or the 6-odd miles of the nascent I-87 NE of Raleigh, NC -- pretty useless for navigational purposes but publicly informative regarding the Interstate status of the corridor.  Simply put, the purpose is to in some measure inculcate the new designation in the public mind so when the Interstate designation is extended well away from the city it won't reduce navigational clarity.  And since there are no plans to truncate US 95, it'll still be around for those who are accustomed to it. 

[theroadwayone]

In case nobody's brought it up, should I-11 get built to Reno, most of the traffic on it late in the year will most likely be Raiders fans traveling to Vegas to watch the team play (well, what few from Oakland that might be making the trip.)

[MantyMadTown]

In case nobody's brought it up, should I-11 get built to Reno, most of the traffic on it late in the year will most likely be Raiders fans traveling to Vegas to watch the team play (well, what few from Oakland that might be making the trip.)

A faster route from Oakland to Las Vegas would be I-580 to I-5 to CA-58 to I-15 north.

[sparker]

In case nobody's brought it up, should I-11 get built to Reno, most of the traffic on it late in the year will most likely be Raiders fans traveling to Vegas to watch the team play (well, what few from Oakland that might be making the trip.)

A faster route from Oakland to Las Vegas would be I-580 to I-5 to CA-58 to I-15 north.

By a long shot!  Even with the presence of a completed (at least to I-80) I-11, it's shorter and faster to go through Bakersfield and Barstow than up through Sacramento to Reno and then down to Vegas, particularly after that pesky signal at Kramer Junction is eliminated in a year or two.  Besides, by the time I-11 is completed, who knows where the hell the Raiders will be (the Davis family is nothing if not fickle!). 

[mgk920]

Weekend traffic on I-15, OTOH....



Mike

[sparker]

Weekend traffic on I-15, OTOH....



Mike

Good point, actually!  Maybe by the time I-11 is carrying traffic up to Reno and/or environs, I-15 will have finally gotten that 6-laning that's been promised/suggested/planned/etc. for 15+ years.  So at that time there might be two viable routes to get from point A to point B (and back).