Just a thought as I was driving home tonight...So on most Chicagoland interstates the control cities are the next state.
For example...
I-294 (Wisconsin/Indiana)
I-90 (Wisconsin/Indiana)
I-80 (Indiana/Iowa)
I-88 (Iowa...on some)
I-94 (Indiana/Wisconsin)
So the throught that came to mind was if the control city for I-57 and I-55 were changed...what would it be?
What came to mind was...
I-57...either (Missouri/Kentucky or Southern Illinois)
I-55...either (Central Illinois or Missouri)
I-55 Missouri
I-57 Southern Illinois (it's a different state to Chicagoans)/Tennessee
The I-57 controls in Chicago say 'Memphis': http://goo.gl/maps/md5yJ
I-55 says 'Lake Shore Dr' and 'St Louis': http://goo.gl/maps/LJZRe and http://goo.gl/maps/xPO8V
At the Edens-Kennedy split (I-90/94) on the northwest side, IDOT uses 'O'Hare - Rockford' and 'Milwaukee': http://goo.gl/maps/NiCnj
Mike
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2013, 09:53:18 PM
I-55 Missouri
I-57 Southern Illinois (it's a different state to Chicagoans)/Tennessee
Or just sign it Illinois, after all it's a different state to Chicagoans. :D
Quote from: mgk920 on January 02, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
The I-57 controls in Chicago say 'Memphis': http://goo.gl/maps/md5yJ
I-55 says 'Lake Shore Dr' and 'St Louis': http://goo.gl/maps/LJZRe and http://goo.gl/maps/xPO8V
At the Edens-Kennedy split (I-90/94) on the northwest side, IDOT uses 'O'Hare - Rockford' and 'Milwaukee': http://goo.gl/maps/NiCnj
Mike
Those are correct...Most of 90/94 have been updated to the next state. I-80 has even been updated. I laugh when they put Iowa for I-80 over I-80/94 near the Indiana Line (over 150 miles from the state line). So the thought out of just pure curiosity, which would be better for 57 and 55, since they are the only two that do not use a state for a control city.
I would go with I-55 Illinois (after all, the capital of IL is on I-55) and I-57 Tennessee (or stick with Memphis).
They just changed the guide signs on IL 120 which direct to I-94 East (which is actually south). They used to say "Indiana" and the new signs say "Chicago". Which makes a lot more sense, since few around here are interested in going to Indiana.
The westbound entry in the area is from IL 21 and those signs have not been changed; they still say "Wisconsin".
I dream of the day when I-57 is signed Arkansas.
Quote from: rmsandw on January 02, 2013, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 02, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
The I-57 controls in Chicago say 'Memphis': http://goo.gl/maps/md5yJ
I-55 says 'Lake Shore Dr' and 'St Louis': http://goo.gl/maps/LJZRe and http://goo.gl/maps/xPO8V
At the Edens-Kennedy split (I-90/94) on the northwest side, IDOT uses 'O'Hare - Rockford' and 'Milwaukee': http://goo.gl/maps/NiCnj
Mike
Those are correct...Most of 90/94 have been updated to the next state. I-80 has even been updated. I laugh when they put Iowa for I-80 over I-80/94 near the Indiana Line (over 150 miles from the state line). So the thought out of just pure curiosity, which would be better for 57 and 55, since they are the only two that do not use a state for a control city.
The previous control city for I-80 West from the Tri-State Split was Des Moines, over 300 miles away. So Iowa is fine. I-80 East from I-55 and a couple around Joliet used to say Toledo as the control city.
There are still some signs for I-80 ramps that say Gary Indiana.
Quote
The previous control city for I-80 West from the Tri-State Split was Des Moines, over 300 miles away. So Iowa is fine. I-80 East from I-55 and a couple around Joliet used to say Toledo as the control city.
I find it odd that I-57 is signed with such a distant city. Champaign-Urbana would be a logical control there.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 03, 2013, 11:08:57 PM
I find it odd that I-57 is signed with such a distant city. Champaign-Urbana would be a logical control there.
Champaign-Urbana is used as a secondary control south of Kankakee.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on January 03, 2013, 12:55:47 PM
They just changed the guide signs on IL 120 which direct to I-94 East (which is actually south). They used to say "Indiana" and the new signs say "Chicago". Which makes a lot more sense, since few around here are interested in going to Indiana.
The westbound entry in the area is from IL 21 and those signs have not been changed; they still say "Wisconsin".
They should do the same with the entry signs on IL 137, IL 60, and others. Better yet, maybe say "Chicago-Indiana" like they do on the BGS where US 41 splits away from I-94 when you first come in from Wisconsin? Seems silly to ignore such a major city that many are intending to travel to.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on January 03, 2013, 12:55:47 PM
The westbound entry in the area is from IL 21 and those signs have not been changed; they still say "Wisconsin".
A
mea culpa on this one: the westbound I-94 entry signs from IL-21
are new and now use "Milwaukee" as the control. Both sets of signs also have the word "Toll" written with black letters on a yellow rectangle. Just drove by there yesterday and noticed my mistake.
I recall when the I-80 west control in Joliet was "Moline". It used to be known as the Moline Expressway, so stands to reason.
Quote from: Rick Powell on January 04, 2013, 04:17:28 PM
I recall when the I-80 west control in Joliet was "Moline". It used to be known as the Moline Expressway, so stands to reason.
It's "Moline - Rock Island" on all the secondary control signs, even the old ones. The east used to be "Gary, Indiana", but is now just "Indiana". The primary controls as far back as I have seen (and that goes back to pre-1980 signs) were "Des Moines" (now commonly "Iowa") and "Toledo" (now commonly "Indiana").
The control sign in Moline used to be Joliet ,now its Chicago. This is on 280
Quote from: 3467 on January 04, 2013, 09:41:51 PM
The control sign in Moline used to be Joliet ,now its Chicago. This is on 280
Which is nuts IMHO. I-80 should be "Joliet/Indiana" and I-88 should be "Aurora/Chicago". Why send extra Chicago-bound traffic down I-80?
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: 3467 on January 04, 2013, 09:41:51 PM
The control sign in Moline used to be Joliet ,now its Chicago. This is on 280
Which is nuts IMHO. I-80 should be "Joliet/Indiana" and I-88 should be "Aurora/Chicago". Why send extra Chicago-bound traffic down I-80?
The funny thing is, I-80 gets the Chicago designation as far east as I-39 (when the more direct I-88 is 20 miles further north), then gets Indiana once east of I-55; I-57 is the only other mention of Chicago after that. While I agree there is no rhyme or reason for it, I'd guess that it was done to give drivers a non-tolled option of heading into the city...similar to the 90 vs. 94 dilemma westbound drivers have in this area.
Control city designations in the Chicagoland area are fickle. As implied here, it has been streamlined a bit - the result of massive highway makeovers done in recent years - but the inner-city signage needs to be more in line. If anything, I-55 and I-57 should stay as is and other highways should follow suit. Even if I-80/94 get control cities the next state over (Toledo/Detroit), it would be more uniform.
What the control cities should be:
I-55 south: Bloomington (St. Louis)
I-57 south: Champaign-Urbana (Memphis)
I-65 south: Indianapolis
I-80 west: Quad Cities
I-80 east: South Bend (Toledo)
I-88 west: Quad Cities
I-90 west: Rockford (Madison)
I-90 east: South Bend (Toledo)
I-94 west: Milwaukee
I-94 east: Kalamazoo (Detroit)
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?
As an aside, do people in New York City really consider Westchester County to be "upstate?" I always thought of "Upstate NY" as being pretty much along and north of I-90. I never even really considered Poughkeepsie or Kingston to be "upstate."
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: 3467 on January 04, 2013, 09:41:51 PM
The control sign in Moline used to be Joliet ,now its Chicago. This is on 280
Which is nuts IMHO. I-80 should be "Joliet/Indiana" and I-88 should be "Aurora/Chicago". Why send extra Chicago-bound traffic down I-80?
That one has always irritated me, but I suppose you don't want to send a bunch of unsuspecting travelers down a toll road
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?
"Downstate" is typically used. Now, what constitutes "Downstate" is subjective. Ask a Northsider, and they think anything south of Madison is "Downstate". Ask a Southlander (Tinley, Harvey, etc), and they'll say the line is closer to Kankakee. Now, bizarrely, Rockford and Galena are considered "Downstate" even though they're north of Chicago.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=41.983548,-87.869993&spn=0.005535,0.013078&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.98402,-87.869861&panoid=wTnWTq-agfvYpFc07t1RnA&cbp=12,35.72,,0,2.21
I've noticed this while driving NB on 294. As you cross under I-190, you see a BGS reassuring you that you're heading toward "Wisconsin". However, the collector lane that you see to the right directs traffic toward "Milwaukee" instead. Two different control points, same road, same direction, right next to each other.
I realize the "Milwaukee" sign is newer and in Clearview, so maybe they're in the process of switching the other one, though it's apparently been several years now with this discrepancy (image is from 2009).
Quote from: Brandon on January 06, 2013, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?
"Downstate" is typically used. Now, what constitutes "Downstate" is subjective. Ask a Northsider, and they think anything south of Madison is "Downstate". Ask a Southlander (Tinley, Harvey, etc), and they'll say the line is closer to Kankakee. Now, bizarrely, Rockford and Galena are considered "Downstate" even though they're north of Chicago.
Many Chicagoans, including myself, feel that anything south of I-80 is "downstate". And I'm from the north burbs.
I think of places like Rockford, DeKalb, etc. as simply Northern Illinois.
In 1987 way way way back, Milwaukee was used here as well as leaving the Airport for 294 NB. That is because I-90 also goes to Wisconsin as well. South of O' Hare Wisconsin was used then cause you had the choice at the tangle to either enter the next state via 294 & 94 or 90. I do not know what 294's control cities are north of the O' Hare spaghetti bowl.
Quote from: Brandon on January 06, 2013, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?
"Downstate" is typically used. Now, what constitutes "Downstate" is subjective. Ask a Northsider, and they think anything south of Madison is "Downstate". Ask a Southlander (Tinley, Harvey, etc), and they'll say the line is closer to Kankakee. Now, bizarrely, Rockford and Galena are considered "Downstate" even though they're north of Chicago.
Then would "Downstate Illinois" be acceptable as a control "city?" If, Indiana and Iowa are used, then that would seem OK as well.
I know Rockfordians who considered themselves downstaters so maybe that is why downstate isnt used as a control while west suburbs or evne just Suburbs which was used at 55/355 jct
Funny stuff. Anything outside of Chicagoland proper is "downstate," regardless of compass direction (although the boundaries of Chicagoland seem to be ever expanding).
Likewise, anything north of Westchester County is considered "upstate" New York (the joke used to be Poughkeepskie was the dividing line, but that boundary seems to be shrinking south and Putnam County is now kind of no-man's land). Of course, I say that as an outside observer and a resident of another rapidly-growing metro.
Quote from: ftballfan on January 05, 2013, 10:01:46 PM
What the control cities should be:
I-55 south: Bloomington (St. Louis)
I-57 south: Champaign-Urbana (Memphis)
I-65 south: Indianapolis
I-80 west: Quad Cities
I-80 east: South Bend (Toledo)
I-88 west: Quad Cities
I-90 west: Rockford (Madison)
I-90 east: South Bend (Toledo)
I-94 west: Milwaukee
I-94 east: Kalamazoo (Detroit)
I agree with this for the most part. It's a pet peeve of mine to see state names as control "cities". Here are some of my thoughts regarding control cities:
Along I-80:
I don't understand why Des Moines can't be used for westbound. It's the next major city. The Quad Cities can be a secondary control - similar to South Bend or Kalamazoo. I also don't see anything wrong with Joliet being used as a secondary control. I love the idea of South Bend being used a secondary control. It makes more sense than Gary, but I prefer "Gary Indiana" over simply "Indiana". Is South Bend even mentioned on a sign anywhere in Illinois? I also agree that, east of the Quad Cities, Chicago should not be used.
Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit? If so, that's probably the right choice. When I-94 joins up with I-80 (on Kingery and Borman), it seems like both Detroit and Toledo should be mentioned with no secondary controls to reduce confusion. Once I-80 leaves I-94, it seems like Kalamazoo and Detroit are most appropriate for I-94. (And of course South Bend/Toledo should be used for I-80.)
Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)
Along I-90 (the Kennedy/Jane Addams Tollway section):
I think Rockford and Madison seem best for westbound. Going eastbound, I'd say Chicago seems most appopriate until you get to, say, I-290. Then Detroit and Toledo make sense.
Along I-57:
Memphis is appropriate. (The existing secondary controls are fine too.)
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.
I just can't stand seeing state names used.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit?
Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.
Just answering a few of the questions you had. First of all, there is no mention of Detroit on the Bishop Ford at all, only Indiana as a control city. As for the Skyway, I'm pretty sure it is Indiana and Chicago that are the controls, but definently not Toledo or Detroit. Also, as far as I know South Bend has never been on any BGS in Illinois or Indiana. Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago and on the free part of 80/94 it is Chicago and Detroit, with Toledo mentioned around the I-65 interchange and points to the 80/94 split. Finally, the secondary controls on I-55 are Bloomington, Springfield and East St. Louis (seriously.)
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit?
Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.
Just answering a few of the questions you had. First of all, there is no mention of Detroit on the Bishop Ford at all, only Indiana as a control city. As for the Skyway, I'm pretty sure it is Indiana and Chicago that are the controls, but definently not Toledo or Detroit. Also, as far as I know South Bend has never been on any BGS in Illinois or Indiana. Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago and on the free part of 80/94 it is Chicago and Detroit, with Toledo mentioned around the I-65 interchange and points to the 80/94 split. Finally, the secondary controls on I-55 are Bloomington, Springfield and East St. Louis (seriously.)
Actually, there is no inbound control on the Skyway. The outbound control is "Indiana" at the Ryan, and never mentioned again. The next control seen is "Ohio" at the state line or just thereafter.
I-55 also has a secondary control of "Joliet" (as does I-80).
The only bgs where I've seen "South Bend" used is exit 40 on I-94 and the two South Bend exits on the Toll Road (72 and 77). I've never even seen it in Michigan for US-31 along I-94. That control thus far is "Niles"; however, "South Bend" is used along the US-31 freeway as a control so we might yet see "South Bend" along I-94 in the future for US-31.
The BGS's for the US-31 exit off of I-94 just say Napier Ave.
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
Actually, there is no inbound control on the Skyway. The outbound control is "Indiana" at the Ryan, and never mentioned again. The next control seen is "Ohio" at the state line or just thereafter.
Actually its "To Indiana Toll Rd" (Unless the Clearview Revolution changed that last year since May)
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.
I just can't stand seeing state names used.
Secondary for SB I-55 is Bloomington.
As for the use of state names, from what I got out of IDOT once it was a political decision.
What would the political reason be ,not that I doubt it!
I think suburbs was not to offend omitted suburbs
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 08, 2013, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.
I just can't stand seeing state names used.
Secondary for SB I-55 is Bloomington.
As for the use of state names, from what I got out of IDOT once it was a political decision.
"Bloomington" only appears after crossing into Will County at Exit 267. Otherwise, further north in DuPage and Cook Counties, the secondary control is "Joliet".
I-55's secondary controls are: Joliet, Bloomington or Bloomington-Normal (both are used), Springfield, and East St Louis.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago.
Yuck. Ohio? What's wrong with Toledo?
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 09, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago.
Yuck. Ohio? What's wrong with Toledo?
Could be worse (Cleveland) :P
Quote from: 3467 on January 08, 2013, 11:00:49 PM
What would the political reason be ,not that I doubt it!
I don't remember exactly, but someone who did not like the prior control city complained; supposedly the complaint went up to the governor.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 09, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago.
Yuck. Ohio? What's wrong with Toledo?
You know what's tiresome? Midwest provincialism.
Quote from: InterstateNG on January 10, 2013, 10:07:29 AM
You know what's tiresome? Midwest provincialism.
wait 'til they bring their footballdongs to this size contest. as NE2 would say: yawn!
(though, in this case, I believe the problem was with the use of a state as a control city, not the specific state.)
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit?
Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.
Just answering a few of the questions you had. First of all, there is no mention of Detroit on the Bishop Ford at all, only Indiana as a control city. As for the Skyway, I'm pretty sure it is Indiana and Chicago that are the controls, but definently not Toledo or Detroit. Also, as far as I know South Bend has never been on any BGS in Illinois or Indiana. Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago and on the free part of 80/94 it is Chicago and Detroit, with Toledo mentioned around the I-65 interchange and points to the 80/94 split. Finally, the secondary controls on I-55 are Bloomington, Springfield and East St. Louis (seriously.)
Actually, there is no inbound control on the Skyway. The outbound control is "Indiana" at the Ryan, and never mentioned again. The next control seen is "Ohio" at the state line or just thereafter.
I-55 also has a secondary control of "Joliet" (as does I-80).
The only bgs where I've seen "South Bend" used is exit 40 on I-94 and the two South Bend exits on the Toll Road (72 and 77). I've never even seen it in Michigan for US-31 along I-94. That control thus far is "Niles"; however, "South Bend" is used along the US-31 freeway as a control so we might yet see "South Bend" along I-94 in the future for US-31.
Not entirely true Brandon. The control city that is used for the eastbound Skyway part of I-90 is "To Indiana Toll Rd" because of the direct connection and I-94 East at the Skyway Jct is the only only that gets "Indiana" so that travelers have a "free" option to the Skyway/Indiana Toll Rd. Inbound on the Skyway, only at the entrance ramps from Indianapolis Blvd and 92nd St have signs that say "Chicago Loop". The inbound Skyway itself just says on the BGSs "To Dan Ryan Expy".
To footballfan and AJB:
Just a slight correction to I-88 and what is actually used as CCs (secondary CC).
Eastbound I-88 uses in this order (Sterling-Rock Falls), (Dixon), Chicago
Westbound I-88 uses in this order Aurora, DeKalb, Moline-Rock Island
Eastbound I-88 from I-80 is signed as Sterling-Rock Falls with another smaller sign on I-80 that says one can reach Chicago via 88. On the mainline east, Chicago does not get much of a mention until after the exit for Old Route 2 on a mileage sign (155 mi). The first mention of Chicago on a BGS is is at Exit 44 at US 30 East, where I-88 becomes the Tollway. Interestingly, the CC for US 30 at this point is Joliet even though it is some 90 miles away because there are nothing but really small towns along 30 until one reaches Sugar Grove. Anyway, Aurora is the 2nd largest city in the state and DeKalb is an important destination because of Northern Illinois University.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 10, 2013, 10:45:19 AM
Quote from: InterstateNG on January 10, 2013, 10:07:29 AM
You know what's tiresome? Midwest provincialism.
wait 'til they bring their footballdongs to this size contest. as NE2 would say: yawn!
(though, in this case, I believe the problem was with the use of a state as a control city, not the specific state.)
Yes - my complaint was not about any particular state. That "Midwest provincialism" comment was ridiculous and didn't make sense in the context of what we were talking about. My complaint was about the use of states as control cities. That's why I said "Toledo" makes more sense than "Ohio".
Does the Ohio Turnpike actually enter Toledo, or is it another case of I-70 in Dayton and I-79 in Pittsburgh?
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)
Even though I-70 may not actually enter Dayton, it certainly enters the metro area. The commercial section along I-75 just south of I-70, with all the hotels and restaurants, certainly feels like part of Dayton, just as Miamisburg (south of Dayton where 75 and 675 meet) is, for all intents and purposes, part of Dayton.
Quote from: rmsandw on January 02, 2013, 09:16:23 PM
Just a thought as I was driving home tonight...So on most Chicagoland interstates the control cities are the next state.
For example...
I-294 (Wisconsin/Indiana)
I-90 (Wisconsin/Indiana)
I-80 (Indiana/Iowa)
I-88 (Iowa...on some)
I-94 (Indiana/Wisconsin)
So the throught that came to mind was if the control city for I-57 and I-55 were changed...what would it be?
What came to mind was...
I-57...either (Missouri/Kentucky or Southern Illinois)
I-55...either (Central Illinois or Missouri)
I just noticed I missed this before in this post in regards to I-88. The first mention of Iowa on any sign heading west on 88 is just after the Route 31 interchange. Heading west on 88, the control cities used are Aurora, DeKalb, Moline-Rock Island. Other than the occasional mileage sign that says Iowa, there are no BGS overheads that say Iowa.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 31, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)
Even though I-70 may not actually enter Dayton, it certainly enters the metro area. The commercial section along I-75 just south of I-70, with all the hotels and restaurants, certainly feels like part of Dayton, just as Miamisburg (south of Dayton where 75 and 675 meet) is, for all intents and purposes, part of Dayton.
Just as Hazel Crest feels like part of Chicago, even though there are at least a few on here who don't feel that I-80 "serves" Chicago.
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2013, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 31, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)
Even though I-70 may not actually enter Dayton, it certainly enters the metro area. The commercial section along I-75 just south of I-70, with all the hotels and restaurants, certainly feels like part of Dayton, just as Miamisburg (south of Dayton where 75 and 675 meet) is, for all intents and purposes, part of Dayton.
Just as Hazel Crest feels like part of Chicago, even though there are at least a few on here who don't feel that I-80 "serves" Chicago.
Even though I-65, I-80, and I-88 never enter Chicago proper, they most definitely serve Chicago and Chicagoland/NW Indiana.
I'd say an interstate has to enter the metro area of a city to serve it, but defining a metro area isn't as easy as using the US Census metro/micro-politian areas. It seems more subjective than that.
Assuming all control cities should be in another metro area (unlike Aurora which is in Chicagoland), the following table shows what could and what are used if they used actual cities. I combined South Bend and Elkhart metro areas because they are adjacent. As for the Quad Cities, Davenport, not Moline, is far and away the largest city.
Rank | City | Population | Miles | Used By | Route(s) |
13 | Detroit | 4,285,832 | 238 | INDOT | I-94 E |
19 | St. Louis | 2,817,355 | 259 | IDOT | I-55 S |
35 | Indianapolis | 1,778,568 | 263 | INDOT | I-65 S |
39 | Milwaukee | 1,562,216 | 86 | IDOT, ISTHA | I-94 N |
41 | Memphis | 1,325,605 | 481 | IDOT | I-57 S |
82 | Toledo | 650,266 | 212 | INDOT, IDOT | I-80 E |
89 | Madison | 576,467 | 124 | (not used) | I-90 W |
150* | South Bend-Elkhart | 517,629 | 74 | (not used) | I-80/I-90 E |
134 | Davenport-Moline | 381,342 | 148 | IDOT | I-80 W |
145 | Rockford | 348,360 | 77 | ISTHA, IDOT | I-90 W |
192 | Champaign-Urbana | 232,336 | 123 | (not used) | I-57 S |
204 | Springfield | 211,547 | 177 | (not used) | I-55 S |
210 | Lafayette | 203,608 | 108 | (not used) | I-65 S |
324 | Kankakee | 113,698 | 52 | (not used) | I-57 S |
- | Dekalb | 68,545 | 55 | ISTHA | I-88 W |
^ Two comments/corrections:
* Rockford is used by both IDOT and ISTHA; IDOT uses Rockford for I-290, at least once on I-355, and for I-90 at the I-290/IL 53 interchange.
* For some reason Rock Island-Moline gets used outside of Chicagoland instead of Davenport-Moline.
I agree on the 3dis, but was only including the intercity routes.
What you said jogged my memory on I-90 - the Kennedy has signs for Rockford so I updated the table.
Moline is used on I-80 I believe, but I added Davenport because that is the true major city in the Quad Cities.
I do wonder why South Bend is not a control city on ITR. It is certainly big enough.
^^^ Kankakee is used as a secondary control at the exits south of I-80 on I-57.
Moline-Rock Island gets used on I-80 from Joliet west as a secondary control for the same reason East St Louis is used on I-55 from Springfield south - it's within the state.
Madison doesn't get used because Rockford comes first. Madison is used from Rockford north.
Champaign-Urbana isn't used because Kankakee comes first as a secondary control.
No point to using Springfield as a secondary control when Joliet and Bloomington come before it.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 30, 2013, 08:20:10 PM
Does the Ohio Turnpike actually enter Toledo, or is it another case of I-70 in Dayton and I-79 in Pittsburgh?
It's about as close to a YES as you can get https://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+map+toledo+ohio&ll=41.591888,-83.648615&spn=0.036975,0.104628&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Toledo,+Lucas,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&z=14.
Technically, The border of Toledo runs along the median of the Turnpike roughly from I-475/US-23 on the western edge to the Maumee River on the east. So in answer to your question, EASTBOUND I-80/90 never enters Toledo, but the WESTBOUND I-80/90 lanes do!!!
Quote from: thenetwork on February 01, 2013, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 30, 2013, 08:20:10 PM
Does the Ohio Turnpike actually enter Toledo, or is it another case of I-70 in Dayton and I-79 in Pittsburgh?
It's about as close to a YES as you can get https://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+map+toledo+ohio&ll=41.591888,-83.648615&spn=0.036975,0.104628&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Toledo,+Lucas,+Ohio&gl=us&t=m&z=14.
Technically, The border of Toledo runs along the median of the Turnpike roughly from I-475/US-23 on the western edge to the Maumee River on the east. So in answer to your question, EASTBOUND I-80/90 never enters Toledo, but the WESTBOUND I-80/90 lanes do!!!
That's not quite accurate. Yet again, Google Maps gets it wrong. Technically, from the City of Toledo zoning maps, the Turnpike doe not enter the City of Toledo at all. The municipal corporate limits are along the north Turnpike ROW.
From west to east:
http://ci.toledo.oh.us/Portals/0/Planning%20Docs/zoning%20maps/Toledo-232.pdf
http://ci.toledo.oh.us/Portals/0/Planning%20Docs/zoning%20maps/Toledo-148.pdf
http://ci.toledo.oh.us/Portals/0/Planning%20Docs/zoning%20maps/Toledo-142.pdf
http://ci.toledo.oh.us/Portals/0/Planning%20Docs/zoning%20maps/Toledo-110.pdf
http://ci.toledo.oh.us/Portals/0/Planning%20Docs/zoning%20maps/Toledo-43.pdf
It's like the question, "Does I-80 fully enter Kendall County, Illinois?" In that case, according to the GIS data, that answer is yes:
http://gis.co.kendall.il.us/pbzviewer/ - use the 2003 or 2010 aerials. Google Maps, as nice as the GSV is, is not anywhere as near as accurate as data actually coming from a governmental taxing body.
Quote from: mukade on January 31, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
Assuming all control cities should be in another metro area (unlike Aurora which is in Chicagoland), the following table shows what could and what are used if they used actual cities. I combined South Bend and Elkhart metro areas because they are adjacent. As for the Quad Cities, Davenport, not Moline, is far and away the largest city.
Rank | City | Population | Miles | Used By | Route(s) |
13 | Detroit | 4,285,832 | 238 | INDOT | I-94 E |
19 | St. Louis | 2,817,355 | 259 | IDOT | I-55 S |
35 | Indianapolis | 1,778,568 | 263 | INDOT | I-65 S |
39 | Milwaukee | 1,562,216 | 86 | IDOT, ISTHA | I-94 N |
41 | Memphis | 1,325,605 | 481 | IDOT | I-57 S |
82 | Toledo | 650,266 | 212 | INDOT, IDOT | I-80 E |
89 | Madison | 576,467 | 124 | (not used) | I-90 W |
150* | South Bend-Elkhart | 517,629 | 74 | (not used) | I-80/I-90 E |
134 | Davenport-Moline | 381,342 | 148 | IDOT | I-80 W |
145 | Rockford | 348,360 | 77 | ISTHA, IDOT | I-90 W |
192 | Champaign-Urbana | 232,336 | 123 | (not used) | I-57 S |
204 | Springfield | 211,547 | 177 | (not used) | I-55 S |
210 | Lafayette | 203,608 | 108 | (not used) | I-65 S |
324 | Kankakee | 113,698 | 52 | (not used) | I-57 S |
- | Dekalb | 68,545 | 55 | ISTHA | I-88 W |
One thing that is not quite correct about the signage on I-90 West. Right at the I-294 North Jct (not indicated at the I-294 South/I-190 Ohare one though), Madison is also used as a control city with Rockford. The older signs had this too before the change to the new Clearviews.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2F90westat294north_zps87c15ccc.jpg&hash=00c97620722ea7613a877461b373e81940414e8a)
Also, I believe the reason why Aurora is used as a control city on 88 west is because while it may be in the Chicagoland area, it is far enough away from the city that it is an important destination city (2nd largest city in the state, Naperville being 3rd) for people who live in the West Suburbs. 290 is really only a due west route until it meets with 88 and 294. From there it jumps northwest, which is why Rockford is used on 290 at that junction. I think of it much the same way that NYC signs its control cities with major bridge and tunnel crossings like the Holland Tunnel and George Washington Bridge.
Aurora may also be used because until 1974 the Tollway ended there and I think the state control trend began there ,maybe by accident. I think the Tollway just stuck Iowa on after they opened the extension. Dixon maybe be because its the last toll booth and Sterling may be used because its the last IDOT exit.....some agency territory marking
Yes, the table of cities exercise is really to show the subjectivity/inconsistency/quirkiness of the control cities when they are used. At least with the state names, they are something you can't dispute. I still don't really care for them, however.
If you get into the IDOT "secondary" control cities, it becomes a bigger mess.
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 01, 2013, 07:27:47 PM
One thing that is not quite correct about the signage on I-90 West. Right at the I-294 North Jct (not indicated at the I-294 South/I-190 Ohare one though), Madison is also used as a control city with Rockford. The older signs had this too before the change to the new Clearviews.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2F90westat294north_zps87c15ccc.jpg&hash=00c97620722ea7613a877461b373e81940414e8a)
Also, I believe the reason why Aurora is used as a control city on 88 west is because while it may be in the Chicagoland area, it is far enough away from the city that it is an important destination city (2nd largest city in the state, Naperville being 3rd) for people who live in the West Suburbs. 290 is really only a due west route until it meets with 88 and 294. From there it jumps northwest, which is why Rockford is used on 290 at that junction. I think of it much the same way that NYC signs its control cities with major bridge and tunnel crossings like the Holland Tunnel and George Washington Bridge.
I've not been on I-90 around O'Hare in quite some time, but I honestly cannot recall ever seeing "Madison" on that sign...ever. I want to say I recall "Elgin - Rockford" - but cannot say for sure.
I always figured I-290 westbound was signed for Rockford because it connects with it's parent that is also signed for Rockford - and perhaps because I-290 was I-90 in a previous life.
I'll agree that Aurora for I-88 is a left-over from the days of Toll-US-30 and when it ended there.
Quote from: Stratuscaster on February 01, 2013, 11:00:05 PM
I'll agree that Aurora for I-88 is a left-over from the days of Toll-US-30 and when it ended there.
However, Aurora makes a lot of sense currently as it is Illinois's second largest city (it's about to become the second one to break 200,000).
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 01, 2013, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: mukade on January 31, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
Assuming all control cities should be in another metro area (unlike Aurora which is in Chicagoland), the following table shows what could and what are used if they used actual cities. I combined South Bend and Elkhart metro areas because they are adjacent. As for the Quad Cities, Davenport, not Moline, is far and away the largest city.
Rank | City | Population | Miles | Used By | Route(s) |
13 | Detroit | 4,285,832 | 238 | INDOT | I-94 E |
19 | St. Louis | 2,817,355 | 259 | IDOT | I-55 S |
35 | Indianapolis | 1,778,568 | 263 | INDOT | I-65 S |
39 | Milwaukee | 1,562,216 | 86 | IDOT, ISTHA | I-94 N |
41 | Memphis | 1,325,605 | 481 | IDOT | I-57 S |
82 | Toledo | 650,266 | 212 | INDOT, IDOT | I-80 E |
89 | Madison | 576,467 | 124 | (not used) | I-90 W |
150* | South Bend-Elkhart | 517,629 | 74 | (not used) | I-80/I-90 E |
134 | Davenport-Moline | 381,342 | 148 | IDOT | I-80 W |
145 | Rockford | 348,360 | 77 | ISTHA, IDOT | I-90 W |
192 | Champaign-Urbana | 232,336 | 123 | (not used) | I-57 S |
204 | Springfield | 211,547 | 177 | (not used) | I-55 S |
210 | Lafayette | 203,608 | 108 | (not used) | I-65 S |
324 | Kankakee | 113,698 | 52 | (not used) | I-57 S |
- | Dekalb | 68,545 | 55 | ISTHA | I-88 W |
One thing that is not quite correct about the signage on I-90 West. Right at the I-294 North Jct (not indicated at the I-294 South/I-190 Ohare one though), Madison is also used as a control city with Rockford. The older signs had this too before the change to the new Clearviews.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2F90westat294north_zps87c15ccc.jpg&hash=00c97620722ea7613a877461b373e81940414e8a)
Also, I believe the reason why Aurora is used as a control city on 88 west is because while it may be in the Chicagoland area, it is far enough away from the city that it is an important destination city (2nd largest city in the state, Naperville being 3rd) for people who live in the West Suburbs. 290 is really only a due west route until it meets with 88 and 294. From there it jumps northwest, which is why Rockford is used on 290 at that junction. I think of it much the same way that NYC signs its control cities with major bridge and tunnel crossings like the Holland Tunnel and George Washington Bridge.
The above chart is really useful. Hopefully it can be reproduced with more current population figures.
As much of the thread indicates, there are definitely some improvements that can be made to some of the Chicagoland control cities, especially to allow for better consistency.
While I do not like control states, I don't think I'm going to win an argument about replacing Indiana with something else. I personally prefer a South Bend / Detroit to maintain a consistency about using cities and not states, bridges, or other possible controls that are not cities. But I can sense that Indiana will not be removed anytime soon, so it remains.
There does seem to be more and more of the Wisconsin signs on 294 being replaced with Milwaukee and this I agree with. FWIW, if Wisconsin is meant as a good shorthand on the 90/94 to denote both Madison and Milwaukee (and it is not to be used north of the Edens split), it does not make sense to use Wisconsin on 294 at all, since 294 only heads toward Milwaukee. You have to turn off 294 to 90 to reach Rockford and Madison.
Rockford would also seem like a winning control for 355 NB and for 290 WB, west of the 88 split.
Joliet works for the 355 SB control and as a secondary control for 80, in appropriate places.
The main problem with 80's WB control is the lack of consistency. It is signed as Des Moines from the IN toll road, but in much of the Chicago area it is replaced simply with Iowa and then further west it fluctuates between Des Moines, Davenport, or Moline-Rock Island. The controls around the Quad Cities are very weird, but it would seem to me that a consistent control of Davenport used in the Chicago area would be very helpful.
88 seems to have a similar problem. I would use Aurora and then Moline-Rock Island westbound. Eastbound, I would use Chicago with an appropriate warning in the Quad Cities area that 88 leads to a toll road and that 80 also leads to Chicago.
Holy Zombie Bump.
Quote from: Stratuscaster on February 01, 2013, 11:00:05 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 01, 2013, 07:27:47 PM
One thing that is not quite correct about the signage on I-90 West. Right at the I-294 North Jct (not indicated at the I-294 South/I-190 Ohare one though), Madison is also used as a control city with Rockford. The older signs had this too before the change to the new Clearviews.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2F90westat294north_zps87c15ccc.jpg&hash=00c97620722ea7613a877461b373e81940414e8a)
Also, I believe the reason why Aurora is used as a control city on 88 west is because while it may be in the Chicagoland area, it is far enough away from the city that it is an important destination city (2nd largest city in the state, Naperville being 3rd) for people who live in the West Suburbs. 290 is really only a due west route until it meets with 88 and 294. From there it jumps northwest, which is why Rockford is used on 290 at that junction. I think of it much the same way that NYC signs its control cities with major bridge and tunnel crossings like the Holland Tunnel and George Washington Bridge.
I've not been on I-90 around O'Hare in quite some time, but I honestly cannot recall ever seeing "Madison" on that sign...ever. I want to say I recall "Elgin - Rockford" - but cannot say for sure.
I always figured I-290 westbound was signed for Rockford because it connects with it's parent that is also signed for Rockford - and perhaps because I-290 was I-90 in a previous life.
I'll agree that Aurora for I-88 is a left-over from the days of Toll-US-30 and when it ended there.
That sign is long gone and Illinois has stopped using clearview. Notice how there's no exit tabs. The new sign has just Rockford and I-294 is Exit 77.
Quote from: mrsman on November 12, 2023, 07:18:15 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 01, 2013, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: mukade on January 31, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
Assuming all control cities should be in another metro area (unlike Aurora which is in Chicagoland), the following table shows what could and what are used if they used actual cities. I combined South Bend and Elkhart metro areas because they are adjacent. As for the Quad Cities, Davenport, not Moline, is far and away the largest city.
Rank | City | Population | Miles | Used By | Route(s) |
13 | Detroit | 4,285,832 | 238 | INDOT | I-94 E |
19 | St. Louis | 2,817,355 | 259 | IDOT | I-55 S |
35 | Indianapolis | 1,778,568 | 263 | INDOT | I-65 S |
39 | Milwaukee | 1,562,216 | 86 | IDOT, ISTHA | I-94 N |
41 | Memphis | 1,325,605 | 481 | IDOT | I-57 S |
82 | Toledo | 650,266 | 212 | INDOT, IDOT | I-80 E |
89 | Madison | 576,467 | 124 | (not used) | I-90 W |
150* | South Bend-Elkhart | 517,629 | 74 | (not used) | I-80/I-90 E |
134 | Davenport-Moline | 381,342 | 148 | IDOT | I-80 W |
145 | Rockford | 348,360 | 77 | ISTHA, IDOT | I-90 W |
192 | Champaign-Urbana | 232,336 | 123 | (not used) | I-57 S |
204 | Springfield | 211,547 | 177 | (not used) | I-55 S |
210 | Lafayette | 203,608 | 108 | (not used) | I-65 S |
324 | Kankakee | 113,698 | 52 | (not used) | I-57 S |
- | Dekalb | 68,545 | 55 | ISTHA | I-88 W |
One thing that is not quite correct about the signage on I-90 West. Right at the I-294 North Jct (not indicated at the I-294 South/I-190 Ohare one though), Madison is also used as a control city with Rockford. The older signs had this too before the change to the new Clearviews.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2F90westat294north_zps87c15ccc.jpg&hash=00c97620722ea7613a877461b373e81940414e8a)
Also, I believe the reason why Aurora is used as a control city on 88 west is because while it may be in the Chicagoland area, it is far enough away from the city that it is an important destination city (2nd largest city in the state, Naperville being 3rd) for people who live in the West Suburbs. 290 is really only a due west route until it meets with 88 and 294. From there it jumps northwest, which is why Rockford is used on 290 at that junction. I think of it much the same way that NYC signs its control cities with major bridge and tunnel crossings like the Holland Tunnel and George Washington Bridge.
The above chart is really useful. Hopefully it can be reproduced with more current population figures.
2013 Rank | City | 2013 Population | Miles | Used By | Route(s) | 2022 Rank | 2022 Population |
13 | Detroit | 4,285,832 | 238 | INDOT | I-94 E | 14 | 4,345,761 |
19 | St. Louis | 2,817,355 | 259 | IDOT | I-55 S | 21 | 2,801,319 |
35 | Indianapolis | 1,778,568 | 263 | INDOT | I-65 S | 34 | 2,141,779 |
39 | Milwaukee | 1,562,216 | 86 | IDOT, ISTHA | I-94 N | 40 | 1,559,792
|
41 | Memphis | 1,325,605 | 481 | IDOT | I-57 S | 44 | 1,332,305 |
82 | Toledo | 650,266 | 212 | INDOT, IDOT | I-80 E | 96 | 640,384 |
89 | Madison | 576,467 | 124 | (not used) | I-90 W | 87 | 687,077 |
150* | South Bend-Elkhart | 517,629 | 74 | (not used) | I-80/I-90 E | 164* | 530,527 |
134 | Davenport-Moline | 381,342 | 148 | IDOT | I-80 W | 147 | 379,374 |
145 | Rockford | 348,360 | 77 | ISTHA, IDOT | I-90 W | 160 | 335,342 |
| Kalamazoo | | 147 | (not used) | I-94 E | 190 | 261,173 |
192 | Champaign-Urbana | 232,336 | 123 | (not used) | I-57 S | 200 | 223,265 |
210 | Lafayette | 203,608 | 108 | (not used) | I-65 S | 209 | 226,452 |
204 | Springfield | 211,547 | 177 | (not used) | I-55 S | 225 | 206,655 |
324 | Kankakee | 113,698 | 52 | (not used) | I-57 S | 348 | 106,074 |
- | Dekalb | 68,545 | 55 | ISTHA | I-88 W | | 68,545 |
* = Rank for South Bend/Mishawaka only
Comments:
- Sluggish growth overall
- Added Kalamazoo
- Lafayette passed Springfield in population
- Kankakee shows up as a secondary control for I-57: Example on US 30 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/39mLPTjMnKWtq3Yi7).
- While part of the same area, I don't recall seeing Davenport used in Illinois for I-80 but "Moline - Rock Island" instead (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fof1rDkde8Mfo6zbA)
- Bloomington is used on I-55 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/1BqezJniUU36Bhe86) as a secondary control starting in the Joliet area
The Rockford-Madison sign mentioned upthread was replaced by a Rockford sign at some point in the last decade, so Madison is back to being unused unless I missed a sign somewhere. It leapfrogged Toledo in population though.
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2023, 10:55:51 PM
- Kankakee shows up as a secondary control for I-57: Example on US 30 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/39mLPTjMnKWtq3Yi7).
- While part of the same area, I don't recall seeing Davenport used in Illinois for I-80 but "Moline - Rock Island" instead (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fof1rDkde8Mfo6zbA)
- Bloomington is used on I-55 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/1BqezJniUU36Bhe86) as a secondary control starting in the Joliet area
Bloomington is used as far north as Route 53 in Bolingbrook. Has been for as long as I have lived here on and off (43 years minus 2 years in St Paul).
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on December 07, 2023, 10:10:23 PM
The Rockford-Madison sign mentioned upthread was replaced by a Rockford sign at some point in the last decade, so Madison is back to being unused unless I missed a sign somewhere. It leapfrogged Toledo in population though.
New signs from Rockford north to Wisconsin use Madison as a control city instead of Wisconsin. Here's an example at the Business US 20 ramp.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EQ7WmicxZK8q5Qxg8?g_st=ic
Quote from: peterj920 on December 09, 2023, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on December 07, 2023, 10:10:23 PM
The Rockford-Madison sign mentioned upthread was replaced by a Rockford sign at some point in the last decade, so Madison is back to being unused unless I missed a sign somewhere. It leapfrogged Toledo in population though.
New signs from Rockford north to Wisconsin use Madison as a control city instead of Wisconsin. Here's an example at the Business US 20 ramp.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EQ7WmicxZK8q5Qxg8?g_st=ic
Rockford isn't part of the Chicago metro area.
Quote from: amh424 on January 06, 2013, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 06, 2013, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?
"Downstate" is typically used. Now, what constitutes "Downstate" is subjective. Ask a Northsider, and they think anything south of Madison is "Downstate". Ask a Southlander (Tinley, Harvey, etc), and they'll say the line is closer to Kankakee. Now, bizarrely, Rockford and Galena are considered "Downstate" even though they're north of Chicago.
Many Chicagoans, including myself, feel that anything south of I-80 is "downstate". And I'm from the north burbs.
I think of places like Rockford, DeKalb, etc. as simply Northern Illinois.
I tend to agree with the assessment that Downstate includes everything south of I-80. However, if the "literal" sense is to be used, then the real divider would be the I-74 and/or I-72 corridors. So from Springfield, Decatur and Champaign and points south, that is definitely Downstate.
Quote from: Henry on December 11, 2023, 10:08:21 PM
Quote from: amh424 on January 06, 2013, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 06, 2013, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?
"Downstate" is typically used. Now, what constitutes "Downstate" is subjective. Ask a Northsider, and they think anything south of Madison is "Downstate". Ask a Southlander (Tinley, Harvey, etc), and they'll say the line is closer to Kankakee. Now, bizarrely, Rockford and Galena are considered "Downstate" even though they're north of Chicago.
Many Chicagoans, including myself, feel that anything south of I-80 is "downstate". And I'm from the north burbs.
I think of places like Rockford, DeKalb, etc. as simply Northern Illinois.
I tend to agree with the assessment that Downstate includes everything south of I-80. However, if the "literal" sense is to be used, then the real divider would be the I-74 and/or I-72 corridors. So from Springfield, Decatur and Champaign and points south, that is definitely Downstate.
Growing up in the Southwest Burbs and now living in the Carbondale area, my definition of Southern IL has shifted from south of I-80 to south of somewhere between US 50 and I-64 - probably closer to 50
"Up North" is basically anything IL not in Southern Illinois. "Chicago" covers the entire Chicagoland metro area. Slightly different perspective
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 19, 2023, 12:37:19 AM
Growing up in the Southwest Burbs and now living in the Carbondale area, my definition of Southern IL has shifted from south of I-80 to south of somewhere between US 50 and I-64 - probably closer to 50
I too have lived in both the Chicago suburbs and the Carbondale area (Herrin to be exact, but my job included driving a delivery truck all over the area). Your boundary corroborates my assertion that it's somewhere between Mount Vernon and Effingham.
When I think about it a little harder, I'd say that, east of I-57, the line is between Route 161 Extension and US-50. Wayne City and Cisne and even Mount Carmel strike me as southern Illinois, but not so much Flora or Olney. West of I-57, I don't know because I have less history in that area: Centralia could go either way for me, but it does seem decently different from Mount Vernon.
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2023, 10:55:51 PM- Kankakee shows up as a secondary control for I-57: Example on US 30 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/39mLPTjMnKWtq3Yi7).
- While part of the same area, I don't recall seeing Davenport used in Illinois for I-80 but "Moline - Rock Island" instead (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fof1rDkde8Mfo6zbA)
- Bloomington is used on I-55 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/1BqezJniUU36Bhe86) as a secondary control starting in the Joliet area
On a day trip down to Peoria this past weekend, I did drive on I-180. I-180 uses Davenport and Joliet as the controls.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3953467,-89.3827596,3a,75y,357.3h,81.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG5q9ATsE-ct-dUcd0Hm4ng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 26, 2024, 12:56:19 PMQuote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2023, 10:55:51 PM- Kankakee shows up as a secondary control for I-57: Example on US 30 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/39mLPTjMnKWtq3Yi7).
- While part of the same area, I don't recall seeing Davenport used in Illinois for I-80 but "Moline - Rock Island" instead (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fof1rDkde8Mfo6zbA)
- Bloomington is used on I-55 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/1BqezJniUU36Bhe86) as a secondary control starting in the Joliet area
On a day trip down to Peoria this past weekend, I did drive on I-180. I-180 uses Davenport and Joliet as the controls.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3953467,-89.3827596,3a,75y,357.3h,81.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG5q9ATsE-ct-dUcd0Hm4ng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Which is strange because I-39, which is less than 20 miles away, uses Des Moines and Chicago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3605939,-89.0598503,3a,75y,10.42h,87.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm59ktIB997KFGyZcf80hNA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
And elsewhere they use "Moline / Rock Island" on I-88. Never once do they mention the Iowa part of the Quad Cities.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9103933,-89.0233923,3a,75y,175.33h,88.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sczuW3uZU60LfTCJpqBR72A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Did an Iowa sign company get the contract for that BGS? I never remember seeing Davenport signed within IL as a control, and I don't think I've seen Bettendorf, period. Illinois like IL cities first...Moline/Rock Island. East Saint Louis. Cairo. Not quite PA-level bad but certainly some provincialism with some Control City choices
They're treating I-180 like a local road according to IDOT's signing policy.
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 28, 2024, 07:27:54 AMThey're treating I-180 like a local road according to IDOT's signing policy.
Which in reality, it is.