Atlanta

[milbfan]

The IH 85 Druid hillis interchange is a Cluster#### at all times of the day. It will get worse with the new added hospital development in that Area!

@Architect77 your post is on point! Express lanes on 285 and 400 will NOT Solve the traffic issues here, especially with Freight Trucks. Yet My Truck proposals to make bypasses of Atlanta get POO-POOED by others on here, lol

Not a mod, but may be better suited for fictional highways?

[architect77]

The IH 85 Druid hillis interchange is a Cluster#### at all times of the day. It will get worse with the new added hospital development in that Area!

@Architect77 your post is on point! Express lanes on 285 and 400 will NOT Solve the traffic issues here, especially with Freight Trucks. Yet My Truck proposals to make bypasses of Atlanta get POO-POOED by others on here, lol

Yes, in the largest state in land area East of the Mississippi, it is unfortunate that the state cannot comprehend how cheap it is to build new highways on rural land that could divert all the thru traffic away from metro Atlanta.

Sprawl will come to everything under 100 miles from downtown Atlanta regardless. If they acted now, they could buy and build new connective roads pointed away from Atlanta cheaply.

Without any action, you're going to see more wide swaths of low-density development without any freeway options at all like in Forsythe County. It's like congealing or locking-in slow-moving mobility forever around the entire periphery of Atlanta.

The opposite result is like Raleigh's outerloop. The Southern 2 remaining sections aren't critical right now however one is 40% complete and the final section will commence before 2030. Development is guaranteed to come anyway, but those folks will have a convenient freeway close by to traverse the region unlike Atlanta.

[Tomahawkin]

Forsyth County is bad with sprawl and IIRC its the fastest growing county in the state? I cant believe South Forsyth High School is a mile from SR 400, That area is another serious cluster####

[armadillo speedbump]

it is unfortunate that the state cannot comprehend how cheap it is to build new highways on rural land that could divert all the thru traffic away from metro Atlanta.

The state and the DOT have realized this for decades, it is the voters, media, and the Democrat Party that have not.  I remember the Northern Arc (and the full loop) proposals back in the 90's.  It got campaigned against, repeatedly attacked by yellow journalism, and ultimately rejected by the voters.  The NIMBY factions won and I'm not sure things will ever change sufficiently. 

NIMBY land use thinking is exacerbating the problem, the region has ultra low-density single family housing.  Last I checked (and it's been awhile) Texas and western metros like Vegas and Phoenix were 2 to 3 times as densely developed.  So while in one sense you don't need as dense a network of roads, the growth gets pushed much further from the job centers and at a faster rate. 

[Georgia]

yea, the rural citizens of Georgia are mostly Democrat heh especially those voters on the Northern Arc, that is definitely Democrat central

[Tomahawkin]

Thats Bleeping Funny... Forsyth, Dawson, Bartow, Barrow, Hall, and Cherokee Counties are As Blue as can Be and have been for Generations! LOL (Sarcasm)

[Tom958]

I was pist when I first read AS's post, but I feel better now that Georgia and Tomahawkin have pointed out part of what was so grossly wrong about it. I'll add, though, that the closest the Northern Arc ever came to being built was when Roy Barnes, Georgia's last Democratic governor, was pushing it during his failed reelection campaign in 2002. I'm a person of the left and the fight against the last resurgence of the Northern Arc was the last hurrah of my career as an activist. I really thought that rank-and-file Republicans didn't give much of a damn about any other aspect of transportation policy than having more places to drive their pickup trucks, but I was pleasantly amazed to find that the Republicans eagerly joined the anti-arc movement, first at the local level, then statewide.

NIMBY land use thinking is exacerbating the problem, the region has ultra low-density single family housing.  Last I checked (and it's been awhile) Texas and western metros like Vegas and Phoenix were 2 to 3 times as densely developed.  So while in one sense you don't need as dense a network of roads, the growth gets pushed much further from the job centers and at a faster rate.

I happen to agree with you, but try selling that to any Republican in suburban or exurban Atlanta and you'll have your ass handed to you on a platter.

[architect77]

it is unfortunate that the state cannot comprehend how cheap it is to build new highways on rural land that could divert all the thru traffic away from metro Atlanta.

The state and the DOT have realized this for decades, it is the voters, media, and the Democrat Party that have not.  I remember the Northern Arc (and the full loop) proposals back in the 90's.  It got campaigned against, repeatedly attacked by yellow journalism, and ultimately rejected by the voters.  The NIMBY factions won and I'm not sure things will ever change sufficiently. 

NIMBY land use thinking is exacerbating the problem, the region has ultra low-density single family housing.  Last I checked (and it's been awhile) Texas and western metros like Vegas and Phoenix were 2 to 3 times as densely developed.  So while in one sense you don't need as dense a network of roads, the growth gets pushed much further from the job centers and at a faster rate. 

Western cities are built on empty barren tracts devoid of trees. Water availability to each home is another huge factor, and it must be compact in nature. The land is inhospitable otherwise out West. Each municipality must hug on to the next one for water's sake.

The Southeast shouldn't be developed like that because to enjoy the abundant land and tree canopy we should be interwoven into the landscape. Trees and tree cover are our best weapon to fight warming of the planet.

Georgia has a gov't. that's long been full of corruption, and the general public doesn't have a high amount of trust of what they say at face value.

No one knew how fast Georgia would grow back when the Olympics were won, nor afterward.

Also there is no past precedent within the GDOT to build more connectivity or improve the metro's network of mobility.

If you drive East on I-20 the outer suburbs have antiquated interchanges, and I-20 West has no emergency pull off lane at all!. It is one dangerous freeway with the speed at which drivers travel on it, and i honestly can't believe the FEDs aren't forcing the state to make some improvements.

The Northern Arc would have achieved the opposite of what the naysayers touted: It would have contained sprawl by redirecting it to stay equadistant from Downtown ATL and it would have lessened the distance up the interstates like I-85 which has now reached Commerce.

There would be a convenient 2nd freeway to travel East-West for the 3 million plus people living in the Northern suburbs, less freight on I-285, and less burden on the spoke interstates of 75, 85 nd 400.

If there was more belief and trust towards the state's agencies, you wouldn't have a Forsythe full of people that can't travel anywhere quickly and efficiently.

the Northern Arc wasn't sold correctly, and "the People"'s opinions aren't worth anything if they aren't educated on the facts and benefits.

[architect77]

This is hurting Georgia in air quality, lost productivity, people's free time, yet no one at the state level believes this is a problem.

I-20 11am Wednesday trucks crawl into Atlanta.

I-85 1pm weekday a Queue of trucks (LEFT SIDE OPPOSITE DIRECTION) 5-10 miles long on I-85 Southbound waiting to transition to I-285 West:

BOTH ARE VIDEOS. CLICK ON THEM TO WATCH TRUCK CONVOYS.

IMG_0061 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

IMG_0324 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

[Tom958]

Tall boi! This, of course, is a new temporary sign on westbound I-285 approaching the GA 400 interchange. Really, it would've been better to place it away from other directional signage, but that sort of thing tends to be ignored on this project. The last two exits are actually a single offramp that splits shortly downstream, but this sign still accurately communicates the upcoming degree of clusterfriggery. A border would've been nice, too. 

[Tomahawkin]

They have one of those Garbage signs on 285 WB as well. They only time you can see it or notice it, is when traffic is at a crawl. That Ashford-Dunwoody interchange is sooo FUBAR, it needs to be redone AGAIN! I Said it over 10 years ago that DDI They made there is a Band Aid on a Bullet-wound. You can say that about the 285-400 interchange IMO. It wont be complete til 2023 as it looks...

[Tom958]

They have one of those Garbage signs on 285 WB as well.

This is westbound. my bad; typo corrected.

[mhking]

This is hurting Georgia in air quality, lost productivity, people's free time, yet no one at the state level believes this is a problem.

I-20 11am Wednesday trucks crawl into Atlanta.

I-85 1pm weekday a Queue of trucks (LEFT SIDE OPPOSITE DIRECTION) 5-10 miles long on I-85 Southbound waiting to transition to I-285 West:

The West Side 20/285 interchange has gotten so bad that I just plain refuse to use it anymore, though I live near 285/FIB on the opposite side of Charlie Brown Airport. I'll take MLK to get on 285 below 20, or take surface streets to get into the city - it's far faster than even trying to get onto 20 anymore.

As my late buddy Keith Kalland used to say, use your home-field advantage, but you've got all weekend to get home.

[Tomahawkin]

I wish they would start interchange construction at both 285/20 interchanges, sooner rather than later. OT does anyone know when the bridge replacement of Covington HWY and other Bridges on 285 in Dekalb County is set to begin? I heard it was supposed to start now but I have seen little going down that route

[Tom958]

I wish they would start interchange construction at both 285/20 interchanges, sooner rather than later. OT does anyone know when the bridge replacement of Covington HWY and other Bridges on 285 in Dekalb County is set to begin? I heard it was supposed to start now but I have seen little going down that route

285-20 east should be let within the next couple of weeks. The others I'm not sure about. Myself, I don't see the 285 bridge replacements happening until they do the whole managed lanes project.

[Tomahawkin]

I'm in the belief that the 285 to 20 eastbound ramp should start at or before the Flat shoals exit. The backup traffic from that ramp in the afternoons can extend to well Before the Flat Shoals exit. That ramp should be 2 Lanes to exit from 285 north to 20 east because of the truck traffic...

[architect77]

There is a huge problem with these super long collector/distributor lanes (I think that it was they're callled) at GA400/I-285 Westbound and GA316/I-85 as I learned the other night.

With our unique very wide interstate trunks here in Atlanta, for some people like me, there is a tendency once getting on them to immediately change several lanes over into the faster ones just to avoid interacting with all of the less skilled drivers in the 3 right lanes.

At night on these collector/distributors, the concrete median barrier is almost invisiible and if you're not familiar with a particular area's configuration you could try to move over to the faster lanes and plow into the concrete barrier wall.

* * * * * * * *

GDOT seems to not be able to do many projects simutaneously, and my biggest gripe that they uniformly always do isi erect every overhead  gantry leaning down to one side. They are so consistent  about this I'm wondering if it's some stupid decision to drain water better off the structure itself.

I've driven through the GA400/285 project a lot recently. As a whole it's impressive but it does have a look of everything being shoved or sandwiched low to the ground. I know it's all because of some old spacing issue from long ago.

[Tom958]

This is news to me:

https://saportareport.com/brt-planning-to-accelerate-along-top-end-i-285/sections/reports/david/

Excerpt:

"GDOT announced in June a new financing plan for the planned express lanes, which are to be built to accommodate BRT. GDOT expects to provide two-lane tollways around Top End I-285, stretching from near I-20 West to I-20 East. Previously, sections were planned as one-lane tollways.

"The expansion was enabled when GDOT decided to adopt a private revenue model to finance road construction. Terms of the new model extend the contract with the private entity by 15 years – to 50 years – and require the private entity to maintain the roadway during the entire 50-year contract."

[Tomahawkin]

Wow, I thought the only area where the express lanes were going to be 2 lanes in each direction was from 285 @ Buford Highway to the Cobb Cloverleaf? If that's the case, get started on this now! We need to see progress in knowing that something is being done. That 285/400 interchange will have taken 10 years to complete at its current rate...

[Dirt Roads]

This is news to me:

https://saportareport.com/brt-planning-to-accelerate-along-top-end-i-285/sections/reports/david/

Excerpt:

"GDOT announced in June a new financing plan for the planned express lanes, which are to be built to accommodate BRT. GDOT expects to provide two-lane tollways around Top End I-285, stretching from near I-20 West to I-20 East. Previously, sections were planned as one-lane tollways.

Wonder if this will be a true BRT application?  I've worked on a number of BRT proposals using express lanes or inside the median of a freeway, but none of them were ever built.  A true BRT system would have (at least a few) transit stations along the freeway, rather than forcing the bus to exit the freeway to access a local platform.  Some locales are using the term BRT when the only "segregated" part of the system are a few flyovers or dedicated bus exits, with no dedicated busway whatsoever. 

Fun fact:  I worked on one BRT proposal that determined it would be less expensive to equip the new transit buses with left-side doors to accommodate center platforms.  This arrangement also allowed the driver to remain on the left side of the bus while meeting the same ADA platform gap requirement used in rail transit.  As best as I can tell, there haven't been any bus systems that are wheelchair accessible to the same extent as rapid transit, but the concept is most certainly possible.

[Tom958]

Wonder if this will be a true BRT application?  I've worked on a number of BRT proposals using express lanes or inside the median of a freeway, but none of them were ever built.  A true BRT system would have (at least a few) transit stations along the freeway, rather than forcing the bus to exit the freeway to access a local platform.  Some locales are using the term BRT when the only "segregated" part of the system are a few flyovers or dedicated bus exits, with no dedicated busway whatsoever. 

According to this presentation of the results of the 2019 study, "A rail-based system would cost 8-10 times that of a rubber-wheeled system due to the need for additional right of way and a separate guideway." So, no separate guideway. However, the full cost for BRT is estimated as $480 million, and the stations would be mostly or all inline.

[Dirt Roads]

Wonder if this will be a true BRT application?  I've worked on a number of BRT proposals using express lanes or inside the median of a freeway, but none of them were ever built.  A true BRT system would have (at least a few) transit stations along the freeway, rather than forcing the bus to exit the freeway to access a local platform.  Some locales are using the term BRT when the only "segregated" part of the system are a few flyovers or dedicated bus exits, with no dedicated busway whatsoever. 

According to this presentation of the results of the 2019 study, "A rail-based system would cost 8-10 times that of a rubber-wheeled system due to the need for additional right of way and a separate guideway." So, no separate guideway. However, the full cost for BRT is estimated as $480 million, and the stations would be mostly or all inline.

However, the full cost for BRT is estimated as $480 million, and the stations would be mostly or all inline.

That sounds like the real McCoy of BRT to me.  There's some huge advantages to BRT, the least of which are buses that can come-and-go to other zones and get out for maintenance almost anywhere.  This type of BRT doesn't allow much for future expansion or transition to rail transit, but I would be surprised if "inline" station platforms actually draw huge crowds of passengers.

[Tom958]

To clarify, my main purpose in posting this was to break the news of the east and west wall managed lanes being two lanes in each direction rather than one. I'm skeptical that the BRT component will ever be built or that if it'd have much effect if it was.

That sounds like the real McCoy of BRT to me.  There's some huge advantages to BRT, the least of which are buses that can come-and-go to other zones and get out for maintenance almost anywhere.  This type of BRT doesn't allow much for future expansion or transition to rail transit, but I would be surprised if "inline" station platforms actually draw huge crowds of passengers.

Having the end station at Northlake seems illogical to me. All that's there is an obsolete mall and the sea of strip centers around it. I swear, it seems that the authorities are going to extraordinary efforts to ignore the obvious: that the most viable corridor for both managed lanes and transit runs northeast along I-85, not south along I-285.

For years, Gwinnett has been developing a transit plan based on a $1 billion MARTA heavy rail extension to Jimmy Carter Boulevard at I-85, then some sort of dubious-looking BRT line from there up Satellite Boulevard. The transit proposal including the rail extension failed hard in the 2020 election even though Gwinnett swung decisively to the Democrats. It's time to recognize the obvious: that the managed lanes need to head up 85, and that the BRT systems along 285 and in Gwinnett need to become a single entity.

[architect77]

Wow, I thought the only area where the express lanes were going to be 2 lanes in each direction was from 285 @ Buford Highway to the Cobb Cloverleaf? If that's the case, get started on this now! We need to see progress in knowing that something is being done. That 285/400 interchange will have taken 10 years to complete at its current rate...

i think this will help as much as is possible. Some days I see travel times on 285 Between  75 and 20 west at 50 minutes or more. 2 additional lanes moving at 45 mph will be a boon for truckers and locals alike.

[Georgia]

Trucks wont be able to use it I would presume like the other lanes.  The biggest thing that screws up 285 is the 20 interchange; if they can get that operating efficiently, that will be where the biggest time saving will be