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Delaware

Started by Alex, February 11, 2009, 10:22:27 PM

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davewiecking

Route 26 in Ocean View/Millville to reopen this Friday 3/27:
http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5473.


Alex4897

#526
DelDOT plans to truncate DE 41 at DE 2 and apparently redo DE 62's directional orientation between DE 2 and Boxwood Road. (I never noticed that the signed directions differed along there, hm.)

http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/index.shtml

Opinions?

Personally, I'd rather them delete DE 62 altogether and extend DE 41 down to DE 4.  I don't think Boxwood Road needs a route number, and having two separate numbers serving either side of the Newport Gap Pike seems redundant.
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Alex

Quote from: Alex4897 on March 30, 2015, 05:46:20 PM
DelDOT plans to truncate DE 41 at DE 2 and apparently redo DE 62's directional orientation between DE 2 and Boxwood Road. (I never noticed that the signed directions differed along there, hm.)

http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/index.shtml

Opinions?

Personally, I'd rather them delete DE 62 altogether and extend DE 41 down to DE 4.  I don't think Boxwood Road needs a route number, and having two separate numbers serving either side of the Newport Gap Pike seems redundant.

Thanks for posting this Alex!

Looking at the signing plans (all in Series C which continues to be the norm for DelDOT): http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/pdf/DE2-41_SigningPlan.pdf
DE 62 will finally see some shielding between Old Capitol Tr and Kirkwood Highway. The lone DE 62 reference on DE 2 east at DE 41 was added during the 1999 shut down of DE 141 to redo the concrete on the Newport Freeway.

The signing plans do not address the incorrect end point at Old Capitol Trail. There was once an end shield there, which disappeared after 2004. But the southward pointing shield assembly remains in place on Old Capitol Tr eastbound.

All of my sign photos from the mid-2000s show DE 62 as east/west. Where was it ever signed north/south?

Alex4897

#528
Quote from: Alex on March 30, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
Where was it ever signed north/south?

According to the signing plan they'll be removing or clarifying one or two South DE 62 signs (depending on how you interpret it) from DE 2 east approaching the intersection.



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Alex

That explains it, thanks. I don't recall that median based assembly, because it was not there during my mid-2000s photo blitz of DE:



However one of my photos from 2012 shows it (guess I never paid attention).

Another signing plan shows some possible changes for Delaware 141 ranging from simple greenouts over DE 41/Lancaster to new guide signs for Exit 6/Delaware 2:
http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/pdf/SS01_SR141.pdf

One potential change will remove the lone Delaware reference of Freeway Ends and replace it with the more typical Expressway Ends.

Quote from: Alex4897 on March 30, 2015, 08:54:40 PM
Quote from: Alex on March 30, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
Where was it ever signed north/south?

According to the signing plan they'll be removing or clarifying one or two South DE 62 signs (depending on how you interpret it) from DE 2 east approaching the intersection.





Alex4897

Quote from: Alex on March 30, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
Another signing plan shows some possible changes for Delaware 141 ranging from simple greenouts over DE 41/Lancaster to new guide signs for Exit 6/Delaware 2:

I personally think all they need to do is clarify that DE 41 isn't a direct destination.  DE 41 is a major connection to the Lancaster area and it should probably still be signed, they could easily just add 'TO' and slide the DE 41 shields over where space permits.

Quote
One potential change will remove the lone Delaware reference of Freeway Ends and replace it with the more typical Expressway Ends.

Isn't freeway the more appropriate terminology here though?  I tend to think of expressways as being near-freeways, but not quite.

Also, RIP 'Must Exit'
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Desert Man

Here's a thread on Delaware...on the RI thread, I was proven wrong when I said DE had one interstate...it also has 3 like RI. They are I-95, 295 and 495 in the Wilmington area. And according to google, I-895 existed for one year before it was decommissioned. Any reasons why for the change of plans regarding the 895? And RI had another I-895 (existed from 1968-1982). Even these 2 tiny states can support small interstate networks.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

Alex4897

I-895 existed as I-95's current routing through the city of Wilmington.  At the time they were undergoing a massive overhaul of the viaduct on the south side of the city and saw it fit to bump I-95 onto the current I-495 bypass to force most of the traffic around the city.  Once the construction was complete the city complained about not having the 2di routed through town, so they decommissioned I-895, slid I-95 back to its original alignment, and recommissioned I-495.
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Alex

Quote from: Alex4897 on March 30, 2015, 09:21:08 PM
Isn't freeway the more appropriate terminology here though?  I tend to think of expressways as being near-freeways, but not quite.

Yes freeway is more appropriate MUTCD-wise, but the northeast tends to use Expressway in place of it more often then not. I would prefer Freeway Ends to be the nomenclature otherwise.

Quote from: Alex4897 on March 30, 2015, 09:21:08 PM
Also, RIP 'Must Exit'

Glad to see a few more of those done away with. However the Must Exit stays in place on that DE 4 panel where they plan on greening out the DE 41 shield. Might as well take care of both while up there IMO.


jeffandnicole

Per: http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/index.shtml
QuoteIn addition, truck traffic destined for Route 41 in Pennsylvania is traveling further out of its way to continue on DE Route 41 between DE Route 141 and the DE Route 2/41/62 intersection rather than continue north on DE Route 141 to DE Route 48 (Lancaster Pike).

Using Google Maps, using 141 to 48 to 41 takes 1.3 miles longer than using 141 to 2 to 41.  Why would DelDOT say that trucks are going out of their way using 2 to 41 when it's clearly the shorter route? (And the route that trucking companies are going to pay their drivers)


Per  http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/pdf/SS01_SR141.pdf

1st insert from left (OH 1): Apparently Exit 3B was renumbered to Exit 33!

OH 4 and/or OH 5:  I would replace the pullthru DE 141 (single lane down arrow) BGS with a pullthru DE 141 (Destination), rather than eliminating it completely.


Alex

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 31, 2015, 10:17:02 AM
Per: http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/de2_41/index.shtml
QuoteIn addition, truck traffic destined for Route 41 in Pennsylvania is traveling further out of its way to continue on DE Route 41 between DE Route 141 and the DE Route 2/41/62 intersection rather than continue north on DE Route 141 to DE Route 48 (Lancaster Pike).

Using Google Maps, using 141 to 48 to 41 takes 1.3 miles longer than using 141 to 2 to 41.  Why would DelDOT say that trucks are going out of their way using 2 to 41 when it's clearly the shorter route? (And the route that trucking companies are going to pay their drivers)


Channeling NE2, because DelDOT:

QuoteIn addition, truck traffic destined for Route 41 in Pennsylvania is traveling further out of its way to continue on DE Route 41 between DE Route 141 and the DE Route 2/41/62 intersection rather than continue north on DE Route 141 to DE Route 48 (Lancaster Pike).

Alex

DelDOT seeks breakout for snarled Millsboro bypass

QuoteState highway engineers are quietly rolling out plans for a scaled-back bypass around northeast Millsboro, spinning the project off from a larger and still bitterly contested proposal to relocate much of U.S. 113 in southernmost Sussex County.

DelDOT officials plan to brief Millsboro's Town Council on the approach Monday, with public workshop likely to follow, according to Geoff Sundstrom, spokeman for the agency. Officials have yet to make maps public, however.

QuoteThe updated, two-lane approach would link Del. 24 east of Millsboro to U.S. 113 north of the town, crossing tributaries of Millsboro Pond just south of the state-owned, 315-acre Doe Bridge Nature Preserve. The new lanes would provide an alternative for north and west-bound now forced to crawl through Millsboro's central business district, producing long backups.

Alex4897

QuoteCarrie Bennett, whose family owns Frankford-area orchards that would have been lost to the original major highway proposal, said many Frankford, Dagsboro and Selbyville residents will be relieved.
"It was a poorly designed, billion dollar boondoggle of a plan which did nothing to alleviate traffic,"  Bennett said. "It just rerouted it and carved up 16 miles of wetlands, farmland and historic minority communities."

Really?  A full freeway isn't going to alleviate congestion at all?  A full freeway would bypass the traffic lights, low speed limits, and narrow streets of Millsboro.  These people are just bitter that they had a highway proposed through their land.
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Alex

Quote from: Alex4897 on April 06, 2015, 10:01:02 AM
QuoteCarrie Bennett, whose family owns Frankford-area orchards that would have been lost to the original major highway proposal, said many Frankford, Dagsboro and Selbyville residents will be relieved.
"It was a poorly designed, billion dollar boondoggle of a plan which did nothing to alleviate traffic,"  Bennett said. "It just rerouted it and carved up 16 miles of wetlands, farmland and historic minority communities."

Really?  A full freeway isn't going to alleviate congestion at all?  A full freeway would bypass the traffic lights, low speed limits, and narrow streets of Millsboro.  These people are just bitter that they had a highway proposed through their land.

She wants to hold out until a developer offers her a can't-refuse-deal to turn her orchards into an 800-home subdivision...

roadman65

This article here http://www.roadsbridges.com/deldot-plans-us-113-bypass-near-milford was posted back in June 2007.   It talks about the Millsboro Bypass as well as the planned Milford Bypass, which is the main feature here, but as DelDOTs proactive way of dealing with population and growth expansion in Sussex County, DE is all the planned US 113 upgrades.

I was wondering how much progress has been made in the projected 10 years they say it would take to get the bypass built considering its almost 8 years after the article was published already?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Alex4897

Quote from: Alex on April 06, 2015, 10:20:46 AM
Quote from: Alex4897 on April 06, 2015, 10:01:02 AM
QuoteCarrie Bennett, whose family owns Frankford-area orchards that would have been lost to the original major highway proposal, said many Frankford, Dagsboro and Selbyville residents will be relieved.
"It was a poorly designed, billion dollar boondoggle of a plan which did nothing to alleviate traffic,"  Bennett said. "It just rerouted it and carved up 16 miles of wetlands, farmland and historic minority communities."

Really?  A full freeway isn't going to alleviate congestion at all?  A full freeway would bypass the traffic lights, low speed limits, and narrow streets of Millsboro.  These people are just bitter that they had a highway proposed through their land.

She wants to hold out until a developer offers her a can't-refuse-deal to turn her orchards into an 800-home subdivision...

Which brings up the point that future development is going to exasperate the already sucky traffic down there.
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roadman65

Most of the people in the article are NIMBYs as they are complaining about forced government being DelDOT is going behind their backs to getting the unpopular bypass of Milford built.  In this case its a greedy land owner holding out, but if they do not let the state improve the road system now, they will bitch later about not enough roads around to handle upgraded sprawl.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

davewiecking

I don't know much about the Milford portion, but activities near Millsboro in the past 8 years have been limited to "Say No to US 113 Bypass" signs popping up all over, and DelDOT paying two landowners neighborhood of $60,000 per month to not start on housing developments while they pondered their options. Never mind that this was in the depths of the 2008+ depression, and nobody in their right mind was starting any housing developments in the area at the time. Led to some upper-level dismissals at DelDOT when the shinola hit the fan. In LSD (Lower Slower Delaware), the assumption is that all traffic wants to go north/south, and going east/west is irrelevant. So I give DelDOT credit for trying to look a generation into the future on US113, but not for leaving EW routes like DE404, 20, 26, 54 as 2 lane nightmares. Since chicken farms are in short supply and can't possibly be moved a few hundred feet out of the way, the Millsboro bypass isn't likely to happen. (Yes, there are significant environmental issues with the potential routes, but that's because those routes avoided the well-connected chicken farms.) I think the fact that the project to merely add sidewalks and a center turn lane on 3 miles of DE26 cost more to obtain the land than to build woke them up to the fact that they should at least try to buy the land for a bypass now.

Alex4897

Quote from: davewiecking on April 06, 2015, 08:11:38 PM
In LSD (Lower Slower Delaware), the assumption is that all traffic wants to go north/south, and going east/west is irrelevant. So I give DelDOT credit for trying to look a generation into the future on US113, but not for leaving EW routes like DE404, 20, 26, 54 as 2 lane nightmares.

They've kind of gotten the hint that things need to be done to DE 24, although at this point their only plans are widening from DE 1 to the Love Creek Bridge.  I guess it's a step in the right direction.  Hopefully they widen past there, maybe to Long Neck at least.
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Alex

Quote from: roadman65 on April 06, 2015, 07:19:50 PM
Most of the people in the article are NIMBYs as they are complaining about forced government being DelDOT is going behind their backs to getting the unpopular bypass of Milford built.  In this case its a greedy land owner holding out, but if they do not let the state improve the road system now, they will bitch later about not enough roads around to handle upgraded sprawl.

IMO, The News Journal has always trended to posting the NIMBY point of view on road articles. You rarely read "I support this highway" or "any traffic solution is welcome", its almost always anti-highway.

NJRoadfan

I had the pleasure of taking DE-24 to US-113 south on a summer Sunday morning. It needs to be bypassed pretty badly. DE-24 makes for a handy shortcut to US-113 if one takes the Cape May-Lewes ferry and wants to head south to the CBBT. Honestly, DelDOT needs to take a proactive stance on obtaining ROW. I don't know the details, but paying someone to simply "defer" selling their land to developers is pretty stupid, they should have flat out bought the development rights, period.

Its a pretty common thing to do, but usually its to preserve farm land from tract housing as opposed to highway ROW preservation. Its also handy to suppress freeway induced sprawl that all those NIMBYs complain about.

davewiecking

The land in question was already in the hands of (well-connected) developers, who were paid off to not start a housing development in the middle of a recession (which they weren't going to do anyway). Wish I'd saved link to the old article on this I found a few days ago-I was worried about posting the amount without verification, but found out the number was only $60,000, not the $100,000 I'd "remembered".

Alex4897

http://www.deldot.gov/information/publicevents/publicworkshops/workshop.shtml?id=5718

So apparently DelDOT is letting go of a portion of School House Road / Lower Twin Lane Road near DE 1 / US 13.  I looked it up and apparently the AADT along there maxes out at about 500 VPD.  Why'd they even bother building an overpass for these small roads when they built DE 1 through here in the '90s?  All they do is provide redundant access to the refinery area, it seems they could've figured this out before they went to the trouble of reconstructing the whole area, unless traffic was heavier along these roads before they were severed and reconnected.

Map of what I understand is being abandoned:
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cpzilliacus

Quote from: Alex4897 on April 19, 2015, 06:17:22 PM
Map of what I understand is being abandoned:


Could DelDOT motivated to get rid of this segment because of increased oil train traffic to the refinery and the grade crossing at the south end of the segment proposed for abandonment?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Alex4897

Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 19, 2015, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on April 19, 2015, 06:17:22 PM
Map of what I understand is being abandoned:


Could DelDOT motivated to get rid of this segment because of increased oil train traffic to the refinery and the grade crossing at the south end of the segment proposed for abandonment?

I suppose that's plausible, that explains why they're leaving Upper Twin Lane Road as is.
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