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Downstate Illinois Notes

Started by 3467, September 26, 2022, 08:17:53 PM

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edwaleni

Quote from: 3467 on May 30, 2023, 10:26:38 AM
Yes. Though that corridor is different from their western corridor . Their started at Norris city and ended at Olney. . That was the limit of this study . The only one of 2 I ever found on the 1corridor. The other was the Danville bypass.

Gotcha.

At one time IDOT wanted to run a south bypass of Effingham using Wabash Ave. and then connect it to US-40 with a bridge over the then Penn Central tracks at Henrietta Street.. They were going to route all of the IL-33 traffic over to I-57/I-70 using US-40 to get the trucks out of downtown. City fathers didn't like that. Instead Effingham got that worthless Fayette Ave.exit so people would actually have to drive through downtown along with the Banker Street overpass. The Keller Family made sure the IL-33/I-57/I-70 exit got all of its desired development with the truck stop, the hotel (I think they named it the Keller Convention Center) and its first McDonalds.

I remember when that happened, everyone asked, "why does a city that small need 3 full service exits?" Now I think they are over 12k.


captkirk_4

Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on April 30, 2023, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?
Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Yes, I remember I-57 for the Kankakee Bypass as an oddity.  The ramps were weird and it was built with an urban design. My dad said that the bypass was proposed by Illinois in 1948 before the interstate system came along, but the actual construction didnt happen until 1953. If you look at the date marks on the KBS railroad bridge it is stamped "1953". Anyway, the way IDOT designed the bypass originally, the "new route" was to send all of US-45 traffic through that bypass by starting it between Ashkum and Clifton. That is why you can see the remnants of the bypass starting that far south.  Most people don't know but that bypass used to start/end at IL-50 north of Kankakee. Then when I-57 came along, they simply ran right on top of it.

The ramps at IL-50 have been completely redone and modernized.

The ramps at Court Street (IL-17) are still in their original 1953 style (including the support structure for the bridge) and I remember the last time IDOT tried to do something with them, the neighborhood howled. One study tried to close the exit completely for safety reasons, but people on the eastside complained. Kankakee tried to develop East Court after the bypass opened and there was for years a KMart, McDonalds, apartments, gas stations, but only the McDonalds remains. The apartments were converted to Section 8 housing.

IDOT has their hands tied becuase they didn't buy enough land back in the late 40's - early 50's and a cemetery constrains them on the west side of the highway. To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

That big tall Orange Skyscraper apartments at the IL 17 exit is the section 8? I saw that entire building listed on a google pop up ad as being up for auction starting at $100,000 so it must be in terrible condition. That whole stretch of 57 is now being widened to interstate standards. Only the railroad bridge still hasn't been touched and is quite narrow but the street crossing a thousand feet to the south is being redone much wider. There is also some strange brick railroad tower standing about a mile south of Kankakee along 57. My mom always fixates on it because she said there were lots of them like that when she was a kid in the 40s.

edwaleni

Quote from: captkirk_4 on July 26, 2023, 01:42:50 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on May 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on April 30, 2023, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 29, 2023, 10:39:36 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on April 29, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quick history question: When was US 45's alignment changed from going west of 57 from Ashkum to Kankakee onto its current one?
Trick question.  It happened in stages and parts of it never moved (technically).

Wow, that's a lot more detail than the short explanation I provided! I remember going through Kankakee before I-57 as a kid (on the pre-57 eastern bypass) and taking a few detours later on during the I-57 construction on our family trips down south. The one detail I remember was a barricade with a "your tax dollars at work" sign promoting the construction of the interstate.

Yes, I remember I-57 for the Kankakee Bypass as an oddity.  The ramps were weird and it was built with an urban design. My dad said that the bypass was proposed by Illinois in 1948 before the interstate system came along, but the actual construction didnt happen until 1953. If you look at the date marks on the KBS railroad bridge it is stamped "1953". Anyway, the way IDOT designed the bypass originally, the "new route" was to send all of US-45 traffic through that bypass by starting it between Ashkum and Clifton. That is why you can see the remnants of the bypass starting that far south.  Most people don't know but that bypass used to start/end at IL-50 north of Kankakee. Then when I-57 came along, they simply ran right on top of it.

The ramps at IL-50 have been completely redone and modernized.

The ramps at Court Street (IL-17) are still in their original 1953 style (including the support structure for the bridge) and I remember the last time IDOT tried to do something with them, the neighborhood howled. One study tried to close the exit completely for safety reasons, but people on the eastside complained. Kankakee tried to develop East Court after the bypass opened and there was for years a KMart, McDonalds, apartments, gas stations, but only the McDonalds remains. The apartments were converted to Section 8 housing.

IDOT has their hands tied becuase they didn't buy enough land back in the late 40's - early 50's and a cemetery constrains them on the west side of the highway. To make a new exit pass muster they would have to shift I-57 east, buy out the former KMart property, build sound walls (due to 2 schools nearby) and convert it to a standard trumpet.

That big tall Orange Skyscraper apartments at the IL 17 exit is the section 8? I saw that entire building listed on a google pop up ad as being up for auction starting at $100,000 so it must be in terrible condition. That whole stretch of 57 is now being widened to interstate standards. Only the railroad bridge still hasn't been touched and is quite narrow but the street crossing a thousand feet to the south is being redone much wider. There is also some strange brick railroad tower standing about a mile south of Kankakee along 57. My mom always fixates on it because she said there were lots of them like that when she was a kid in the 40s.

I used to look for that railroad tower myself as a kid. It is called "Otto Tower" and it controlled an Illinois Central interlocking with what was the IC Bloomington Branch. The line today goes west to Herscher and ends which has a massive LPG storage facility and a large quarry that also served by NS. Prior to the pull up of most of the line, it brought in traffic from not just Bloomington, IL, but there was also the Tracy Branch that ran from Buckingham to the Peabody Coal mine in South Wilmington. Also the Pontiac Branch of the IC came in on this line as well. So that is why at one time this was a very busy tower. I still remember seeing the signals from miles away.

edwaleni

https://southernillinoisnow.com/2023/11/25/idot-has-no-plans-to-improve-deteriorated-section-of-west-main-near-walmart

Seems the trucks are eating up US-50 west of I-57 and the town wants something done because they can't get into WalMart.

I love this comment, "IDOT tends to listen to city officials more than citizens complaints"

paulthemapguy

Quote from: edwaleni on November 25, 2023, 05:15:17 PM
I love this comment, "IDOT tends to listen to city officials more than citizens complaints"

As a government employee who fields complaints from residents, I can definitely see the benefit in having a middleman or other way to filter complaints from the public.  If another government entity has processed a number of complaints into a legitimate consensus drawn about the state of a roadway, I'll take that consensus over an isolated allegation any day.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
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TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

edwaleni

Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 25, 2023, 09:52:34 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 25, 2023, 05:15:17 PM
I love this comment, "IDOT tends to listen to city officials more than citizens complaints"

As a government employee who fields complaints from residents, I can definitely see the benefit in having a middleman or other way to filter complaints from the public.  If another government entity has processed a number of complaints into a legitimate consensus drawn about the state of a roadway, I'll take that consensus over an isolated allegation any day.

Totally understand, better to let the local leadership filter the feedback.

As for why this spot has gotten a bit rough, is because between I-57 and US-50 West to CR-800, the AADT is 10,000+. Between a XPO logistics terminal, A lighting factory, a regional WalMart and a collection of other retail and commercial entities in such a small distance, and the fact this part of the road has only gotten minor patching at the section joints over the past 25-30 years makes for some consistent rip-rap when driving over it.

It should have been included in the IDOT STIP by the District IDOT commissioner, but I am going to hazard a guess that it probably passed a visual inspection and so it didn't get included.

Unless someone political gets involved, it probably wont get addressed until summer of 2024 at the soonest.


3467

I was looking past that and it's 3 lane and looks recently repaved and upgraded shoulders some all the way from that beat up stretch to Carlyle.
I bet it's an oversight

adt1982

US 50 was repaved in either 2020 or 2021 (I don't recall which, and Street View has dates of August 2019 and December 2021, so it's between those two) from just east of CR 800 and US 51 at Sandoval.  From US 51 to Carlyle the pavement is older, but it was not as bad as the 51 to Salem stretch was before it was repaved.  I always take 50 when I head to Mt. Carmel, at least from Sandoval to I-57.  Sometimes I've used it between Sandoval and Carlyle to take IL 127 up to Hillsboro to avoid using IL 185 and its mine subsidence issues.

edwaleni

Quote from: adt1982 on November 26, 2023, 10:11:04 PM
US 50 was repaved in either 2020 or 2021 (I don't recall which, and Street View has dates of August 2019 and December 2021, so it's between those two) from just east of CR 800 and US 51 at Sandoval.  From US 51 to Carlyle the pavement is older, but it was not as bad as the 51 to Salem stretch was before it was repaved.  I always take 50 when I head to Mt. Carmel, at least from Sandoval to I-57.  Sometimes I've used it between Sandoval and Carlyle to take IL 127 up to Hillsboro to avoid using IL 185 and its mine subsidence issues.

I checked the latest Google Street View and the US-50 repave ends just 100-200 feet east of the CR800 stoplight and then turns into the old sectioned concrete the rest of the way to I-57.

As for IL-185 between Hillsboro and Coffeen, you might be aware that the power plant at Coffeen was shut down forever. The last boiler I think was turned off last year and its going through teardown and environmental remediation.

I used to watch NS and BNSF back in coal trains through Sorrento to get to the plant.

According to the latest STIP from IDOT, US-50 is getting repaved from the Clay-Richland County line (Muddy Creek) to the first Lawrenceville exit some time in the next 4 years.

Curious to know how much longer IL-185 will continue to subside. For what its worth that road dates back to the early 1800's when it was a wagon trail between Hillsboro and the then Illinois capital of Vandalia.


adt1982

Yes, I also watched the coal trains go to the Coffeen plant.  Latest update on the plant is that it's going to be some type of battery storage facility.  I've been following updates in the local news.  Hopefully most if not all subsidence on 185 is over.  They did a substantial repaving job this summer and fall in Montgomery County.

paulthemapguy

Illinois 185 was in rough shape west of Vandalia when I clinched it in February.  It's good to know it got some TLC since then!
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

edwaleni

Quote from: adt1982 on November 27, 2023, 07:50:22 AM
Yes, I also watched the coal trains go to the Coffeen plant.  Latest update on the plant is that it's going to be some type of battery storage facility.  I've been following updates in the local news.  Hopefully most if not all subsidence on 185 is over.  They did a substantial repaving job this summer and fall in Montgomery County.

Some of my ancestors were original homesteaders in Montgomery County after Illinois became a state and I lived in Bond County briefly. Been all over that 1920 era state road (1 lane wide) north of Greenville and retraced the Illinois Terminal from Hillsboro to Litchfield. I actually had to wait on a train in Butler once.

Rick Powell

Quote from: edwaleni on July 26, 2023, 09:00:43 PM
I used to look for that railroad tower myself as a kid. It is called "Otto Tower" and it controlled an Illinois Central interlocking with what was the IC Bloomington Branch. The line today goes west to Herscher and ends which has a massive LPG storage facility and a large quarry that also served by NS. Prior to the pull up of most of the line, it brought in traffic from not just Bloomington, IL, but there was also the Tracy Branch that ran from Buckingham to the Peabody Coal mine in South Wilmington. Also the Pontiac Branch of the IC came in on this line as well. So that is why at one time this was a very busy tower. I still remember seeing the signals from miles away.

My late dad worked for the IC Railroad  in the Public Projects department while I-57 was being constructed. The overhead bridge over I-57 and the old IC mainline near the tower is Otto Road. My dad was given instructions to mark up every submittal given to him by the state, no matter how small the comment, in order to delay the opening of the new highway. They finally couldn't hold up the project any longer (probably at the order of the IL Commerce Commission) and the overhead bridge was built and the highway opened. Ironically, he was hired by IDOT a year after he left the railroad.

edwaleni

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 27, 2023, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on July 26, 2023, 09:00:43 PM
I used to look for that railroad tower myself as a kid. It is called "Otto Tower" and it controlled an Illinois Central interlocking with what was the IC Bloomington Branch. The line today goes west to Herscher and ends which has a massive LPG storage facility and a large quarry that also served by NS. Prior to the pull up of most of the line, it brought in traffic from not just Bloomington, IL, but there was also the Tracy Branch that ran from Buckingham to the Peabody Coal mine in South Wilmington. Also the Pontiac Branch of the IC came in on this line as well. So that is why at one time this was a very busy tower. I still remember seeing the signals from miles away.

My late dad worked for the IC Railroad  in the Public Projects department while I-57 was being constructed. The overhead bridge over I-57 and the old IC mainline near the tower is Otto Road. My dad was given instructions to mark up every submittal given to him by the state, no matter how small the comment, in order to delay the opening of the new highway. They finally couldn't hold up the project any longer (probably at the order of the IL Commerce Commission) and the overhead bridge was built and the highway opened. Ironically, he was hired by IDOT a year after he left the railroad.

Speaking of that bridge for I-57 over the IC at Clifton, why does IDOT paint the outer girders green, but the inner girders grey?

Rick Powell

Quote from: edwaleni on November 27, 2023, 11:25:47 PM

Speaking of that bridge for I-57 over the IC at Clifton, why does IDOT paint the outer girders green, but the inner girders grey?
The grey color makes the girders easier to inspect. Outer fascia girders are green, brown or blue for appearance, although IDOT is starting to also use grey for fascia beams too.

edwaleni

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 28, 2023, 12:07:14 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 27, 2023, 11:25:47 PM

Speaking of that bridge for I-57 over the IC at Clifton, why does IDOT paint the outer girders green, but the inner girders grey?
The grey color makes the girders easier to inspect. Outer fascia girders are green, brown or blue for appearance, although IDOT is starting to also use grey for fascia beams too.

When the Interstates were built in the 1960's green seemed to be the preferred color. Brown appeared (to me) when I-255 was built through the St Louis Metro East.

I haven't (or cant recall) seen a blue in Illinois, but lots of them in Indiana.

Revive 755

Quote from: edwaleni on November 28, 2023, 08:42:18 AM
I haven't (or cant recall) seen a blue in Illinois, but lots of them in Indiana.

There's a darker blue on some of the I-70 overpasses and some around Quad Cities.  IIRC Indiana seems to normally (or at least somewhat frequently) use a  light blue shade..

ilpt4u

Quote from: Revive 755 on November 28, 2023, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 28, 2023, 08:42:18 AM
I haven't (or cant recall) seen a blue in Illinois, but lots of them in Indiana.

There's a darker blue on some of the I-70 overpasses and some around Quad Cities.  IIRC Indiana seems to normally (or at least somewhat frequently) use a  light blue shade..
I-57 over US 50 in Salem has blue paint https://maps.app.goo.gl/9DHMwfvLM8TBsPqXA?g_st=ic



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