News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Partially or completely dead shopping centers

Started by tolbs17, February 15, 2022, 11:29:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

tolbs17

NOTE: DO NOT POST MALLS IN THIS THREAD!! ONLY SHOPPING CENTERS!! Save the malls for the "Malls that should be demolished" or the "Dead Malls" threads.




11 Galleria - Sears is shutdown along with Bonefish Grill and some lots are vacant. This used to be called Carolina East Mall, but the shopping center is partially dead with no plans to convert sears and bonefish grill into something else. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.566382,-77.406191,643m/data=!3m1!1e3

Eastgate Plaza - Family dollar feels so lonely with some other businesses along. Excel closed in 2016, although signage has never been removed. https://goo.gl/maps/G13ntGgEmL4RU81DA

Charles Blvd Shopping Center - Harris Teeter closed in May 2019 and Dollar General relocated across the street to the former Rite Aid, as well as Stadium Sports which relocated to the former pizzeria. Leaving this shopping center half-vacant. I wouldn't be surprised if ECU bought this land or a developer plans to build a mixed use building here.  https://goo.gl/maps/KcyVVjEBcaf9tVE59



lepidopteran

Burtonsville Crossing in MD.  It appears to have a lone Italian restaurant, and a BK on an outparcel, but other than that it's vacant.  It did have a pretty good Chinese place until a few years ago.

The main reason for closing was likely the construction of the section of US-29 freeway that bypasses it.  (I'm surprised they haven't downgraded the "old" 29 to 2 lanes.)  That and the closure of the center's supermarket anchor which I think was a Safeway.  A new shopping center with a Giant grocery opened across the road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1145664,-76.9308569,427m/data=!3m1!1e3

MATraveler128

Here's one in Warminster, PA, at the intersection of PA 263 and Ivyland Rd. This was a former Kmart, which also had a few smaller tenants located there, including a Chinese restaurant. Though it has since been replaced with a Weis grocery store as of today, the small abandoned shops still remain.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2203908,-75.0968802,3a,75y,34.33h,93.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEY5N8LbULf57c1FivYX2nA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

TheHighwayMan3561

There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Road Hog

Shopping centers that you can physically pull up to in an automobile, and do your business in an out of, will not go out of style in my lifetime. Malls are too much work.

When the hood rats think malls are lame, malls are done.

gonealookin

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".

ran4sh

A few years ago in Athens, GA, the Athens-Clarke County commission rejected a proposal from Kroger for them to redevelop the shopping center at the intersection of College Station Rd and Barnett Shoals Rd. That was a bad decision in my opinion, and now that shopping center is mostly dead except for the Kroger itself.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

tolbs17

Quote from: gonealookin on February 15, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".
I mean enclosed malls.

tolbs17

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?
Mall is a shopping mall. And a shopping center is usually anchored by a grocery store along with some other small businesses.

Alamance Crossing is okay to post, but not any enclosed malls.

webny99

#9
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 10:41:54 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?
Mall is a shopping mall. And a shopping center is usually anchored by a grocery store along with some other small businesses.

Yes, but I'm not sure they're different enough that we need a separate thread.

In any case, the first two that came to mind are both on the same route: Sweden Corners and this empty haunt in Medina (now a Tractor Supply). Ontario Plaza is also pretty dead.

GaryV

Pick a former K-Mart location. At least 50/50 that it's eligible for this list.

formulanone

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

It's only his 249th new thread, give him a break.

Seriously, just merge with the long-standing Dead Malls thread. Or it's just trivial material...every town has at least one.

elsmere241

Quote from: GaryV on February 16, 2022, 01:05:58 PM
Pick a former K-Mart location. At least 50/50 that it's eligible for this list.


I don't subscribe so I don't know the details, but the News Journal in Delaware recently had an article about what the former Sears and KMart sites in the state were being used for now.

MATraveler128

#13
Worth mentioning that in Somerville, Massachusetts, right next to Assembly Row is an abandoned Circuit City location. I'm very surprised that it has survived for the past 13 years untouched, while Assembly Row continues making truckloads of money each year. It stands today as a storage facility for the Home Depot next door.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3884173,-71.0794998,3a,75y,24.05h,87.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWqVs1jFZwcrEdOgY-1xJ4Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

US 89

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 15, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on February 15, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".
I mean enclosed malls.

Open-air malls are a thing too...

Rothman

Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2022, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 15, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on February 15, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".
I mean enclosed malls.

Open-air malls are a thing too...
Right, like the National Mall in DC.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

tolbs17

This shopping center in Farmville, NC is partially dead. Most tenants moved out between 1999 and 2005 (between 2005 and 2010, this shopping center was completely dead with only being partly revived), One of them being a Food Lion which relocated here, don't know what the other tenants were before Roses, Dollar Tree (Which could relocate into its own building as well, either across the street or to another area in Farmville) and Shoe Show (which is now closed) moved in.

ABC Store is moving from downtown to a bigger building in this shopping center. I was hoping that Piggly Wiggly could relocate here as well so it can get a larger building so it's not all so cluttered in the tiny spot downtown. It's also the smallest store in Pitt County.

Current location of the Piggly Wiggly - https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5970162,-77.5844008,234m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0

The area that this shopping center is in might of contributed the death of it. Gang members, and whatnot.

HighwayStar

Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2022, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 15, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on February 15, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".
I mean enclosed malls.

Open-air malls are a thing too...

Yeah, like "we are a Mall, but we are too cheap to provide you with heating or air conditioning, so you better hope its nice out"  :no:
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

roadman65

Quote from: Rothman on February 18, 2022, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2022, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 15, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on February 15, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".
I mean enclosed malls.

Open-air malls are a thing too...
Right, like the National Mall in DC.
Don't know about that as in Lakeland, Florida the open air Lakeland Village beat out the dead Lakeland Square traditional indoor shopping facility.  :bigass:
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

HighwayStar

Quote from: roadman65 on March 09, 2022, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 18, 2022, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2022, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 15, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on February 15, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 15, 2022, 07:33:38 PM
There's a difference between a mall and a shopping center?

I'm liking how tolbs says "Do not post malls in this thread" but when you click on his first Google Maps link the label says "11 Galleria - Shopping mall".
I mean enclosed malls.

Open-air malls are a thing too...
Right, like the National Mall in DC.
Don't know about that as in Lakeland, Florida the open air Lakeland Village beat out the dead Lakeland Square traditional indoor shopping facility.  :bigass:

Of course it did, its called the race to the bottom. Provide the customer with less, pocket the savings, and enjoy a competitive advantage over your competition. In an era of falling wages and a declining middle class the entire story of retail consists of cost cutting, corner cutting, and undercutting in a scramble to be as cheap as possible by whatever means necessary. Sears gave way to the discounters, then the discounters gave way to Walmart, and now Walmart is giving way to Dollar Tree.  :coffee:
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

paulthemapguy

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 09, 2022, 10:19:41 PM
Of course it did, its called the race to the bottom. Provide the customer with less, pocket the savings, and enjoy a competitive advantage over your competition. In an era of falling wages and a declining middle class the entire story of retail consists of cost cutting, corner cutting, and undercutting in a scramble to be as cheap as possible by whatever means necessary. Sears gave way to the discounters, then the discounters gave way to Walmart, and now Walmart is giving way to Dollar Tree.  :coffee:

The decline in wages and the middle class are the result of corporate executives, like those of Walmart, pocketing all the growth in GDP observed in the last 30 years.  It isn't so much the cause of their success; it's more of a result.  If workers were paid a reasonable wage in this country, we could afford to buy more.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

HighwayStar

Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 10, 2022, 09:15:25 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 09, 2022, 10:19:41 PM
Of course it did, its called the race to the bottom. Provide the customer with less, pocket the savings, and enjoy a competitive advantage over your competition. In an era of falling wages and a declining middle class the entire story of retail consists of cost cutting, corner cutting, and undercutting in a scramble to be as cheap as possible by whatever means necessary. Sears gave way to the discounters, then the discounters gave way to Walmart, and now Walmart is giving way to Dollar Tree.  :coffee:

The decline in wages and the middle class are the result of corporate executives, like those of Walmart, pocketing all the growth in GDP observed in the last 30 years.  It isn't so much the cause of their success; it's more of a result.  If workers were paid a reasonable wage in this country, we could afford to buy more.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Neither corporations nor their executives are the root cause of any of this. People greatly overestimate how powerful or impactful corporations are. In reality, firms simply operate within the framework of the economy that is created by government policies. They have always been profit optimizers, what has changed is the framework we have given them to operate in.

Paying workers a "reasonable wage" is a a nice sentiment, but has little if any economic meaning. Workers are paid the market wage and always have been. What has changed is the market wage has fallen, for a number of reasons, but essentially none of them are the choice of corporations, all are the result of government policies. At one time workers were paid a "reasonable wage", but what is important is understanding why wages fell which is a far from simple operation.

This distinction is important, because blaming the wrong actor has prevented people from solving the problem. If you think Walmart or Amazon or whoever else is the reason this happened, it prevents you from addressing the actual issues. That said, I will grant that there is a feedback loop of sorts here where corporations do lobby government for one policy or another, which has an impact, but the fact that government policies are the ultimate source of the issue must not be overlooked.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

abefroman329

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 10, 2022, 11:00:08 AMNeither corporations nor their executives are the root cause of any of this.
Horseshit.  Corporations worked to diminish the power of unions, to ensure the minimum wage is stagnant, to defang the laws regulating their behavior and the agencies that are responsible for oversight, to pass at-will employment laws, to outsource and offshore and, most recently, to treat employees as "independent contractors" to ensure they don't even have a responsibility to do what little they're legally required to do.

Really, if you want evidence that corporations are behind the race to the bottom, look no further than, yes, Walmart, where the Walton family rakes in billions in profit per year while their employees are paid so little, they're eligible for government assistance.  Or Amazon, where the founder gets to take a fun ride to space on a rocket while his warehouse and delivery employees piss in jars so they don't miss their quotas.

Rothman



Quote from: HighwayStar on March 10, 2022, 11:00:08 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 10, 2022, 09:15:25 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 09, 2022, 10:19:41 PM
Of course it did, its called the race to the bottom. Provide the customer with less, pocket the savings, and enjoy a competitive advantage over your competition. In an era of falling wages and a declining middle class the entire story of retail consists of cost cutting, corner cutting, and undercutting in a scramble to be as cheap as possible by whatever means necessary. Sears gave way to the discounters, then the discounters gave way to Walmart, and now Walmart is giving way to Dollar Tree.  :coffee:

The decline in wages and the middle class are the result of corporate executives, like those of Walmart, pocketing all the growth in GDP observed in the last 30 years.  It isn't so much the cause of their success; it's more of a result.  If workers were paid a reasonable wage in this country, we could afford to buy more.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Neither corporations nor their executives are the root cause of any of this. People greatly overestimate how powerful or impactful corporations are. In reality, firms simply operate within the framework of the economy that is created by government policies. They have always been profit optimizers, what has changed is the framework we have given them to operate in.

Paying workers a "reasonable wage" is a a nice sentiment, but has little if any economic meaning. Workers are paid the market wage and always have been. What has changed is the market wage has fallen, for a number of reasons, but essentially none of them are the choice of corporations, all are the result of government policies. At one time workers were paid a "reasonable wage", but what is important is understanding why wages fell which is a far from simple operation.

This distinction is important, because blaming the wrong actor has prevented people from solving the problem. If you think Walmart or Amazon or whoever else is the reason this happened, it prevents you from addressing the actual issues. That said, I will grant that there is a feedback loop of sorts here where corporations do lobby government for one policy or another, which has an impact, but the fact that government policies are the ultimate source of the issue must not be overlooked.

Aristotle would have a heyday with this tripe.

"Government policy is the issue -- and corporations do influence it -- but corporations are not the problem."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

HighwayStar

Quote from: Rothman on March 10, 2022, 03:15:43 PM


Quote from: HighwayStar on March 10, 2022, 11:00:08 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 10, 2022, 09:15:25 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 09, 2022, 10:19:41 PM
Of course it did, its called the race to the bottom. Provide the customer with less, pocket the savings, and enjoy a competitive advantage over your competition. In an era of falling wages and a declining middle class the entire story of retail consists of cost cutting, corner cutting, and undercutting in a scramble to be as cheap as possible by whatever means necessary. Sears gave way to the discounters, then the discounters gave way to Walmart, and now Walmart is giving way to Dollar Tree.  :coffee:

The decline in wages and the middle class are the result of corporate executives, like those of Walmart, pocketing all the growth in GDP observed in the last 30 years.  It isn't so much the cause of their success; it's more of a result.  If workers were paid a reasonable wage in this country, we could afford to buy more.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Neither corporations nor their executives are the root cause of any of this. People greatly overestimate how powerful or impactful corporations are. In reality, firms simply operate within the framework of the economy that is created by government policies. They have always been profit optimizers, what has changed is the framework we have given them to operate in.

Paying workers a "reasonable wage" is a a nice sentiment, but has little if any economic meaning. Workers are paid the market wage and always have been. What has changed is the market wage has fallen, for a number of reasons, but essentially none of them are the choice of corporations, all are the result of government policies. At one time workers were paid a "reasonable wage", but what is important is understanding why wages fell which is a far from simple operation.

This distinction is important, because blaming the wrong actor has prevented people from solving the problem. If you think Walmart or Amazon or whoever else is the reason this happened, it prevents you from addressing the actual issues. That said, I will grant that there is a feedback loop of sorts here where corporations do lobby government for one policy or another, which has an impact, but the fact that government policies are the ultimate source of the issue must not be overlooked.

Aristotle would have a heyday with this tripe.

"Government policy is the issue -- and corporations do influence it -- but corporations are not the problem."

I frankly don't care what some long dead Greek thinks about it. He would be more amazed about our ability to tame fire than anything else.

Government policy is the issue, it alone has the power to create the framework that allows this. No matter what a private company may want to do, it would be incapable of generating these outcomes by any of its own policies.

Second, as to the influence on government, it is something of a problem in terms of a feedback loop, but in this case one came before the other. These companies had to come into existence, which only happened after the policies were in place. Once they are there firms may continue to support or lobby for some policies, but they could not do that before they existed.

Many of these policy failures go back to the forties. Walmart was not around for decades after that to lobby for anything, so the blame has to be put primarily on government policies which created this situation, and only by the reversal of those policies will it change.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.