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Best resturants to have in service plazas?

Started by HighwayStar, February 23, 2022, 06:04:05 PM

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abefroman329

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 10:21:11 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 10:15:23 AM
Roy Rogers
Arthur Treacher's
Nathan's
Big Boy (you laugh, but there was one at the Maryland House as recently as 15 years ago; it might have lasted even longer than that)

For many years there was a Big Boy at the Delaware Turnpike service plaza* as well–Roy Rogers on one side of the building, Bob's Big Boy on the other side.

*I'm aware that plaza is now named after the current president's family, but it wasn't called that when Bob's Big Boy was there.
I honestly can't remember if I ate at the one at Maryland House or The Service Plaza Formerly Known As The Delaware Turnpike Service Plaza, or both.  The one I remember was in the southwest corner of the building.


Big John

Quote from: cabiness42 on February 24, 2022, 07:50:48 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 23, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
I recall seeing one in Indiana.

I don't remember there ever being an Arby's along the IRT. I've seen Hardees, McDonalds, Burger King and Diary Queen. If there was an Arbys it must have been one of the eastern ones and it must have been a long time ago.
Yes it was a long time ago.

JayhawkCO

Prior to this thread, I had never heard of Roy Rogers (the restaurant).

skluth

Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 24, 2022, 10:56:23 AM
Prior to this thread, I had never heard of Roy Rogers (the restaurant).
I have. There was one on Green Bay's West Side but it closed decades ago. I thought they went out of business but they have a website. They look to be popular in Maryland and Southern Pennsylvania.

HighwayStar

Quote from: skluth on February 24, 2022, 11:44:22 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 24, 2022, 10:56:23 AM
Prior to this thread, I had never heard of Roy Rogers (the restaurant).
I have. There was one on Green Bay's West Side but it closed decades ago. I thought they went out of business but they have a website. They look to be popular in Maryland and Southern Pennsylvania.

Its basically an endangered chain. I think it peaked in the hundreds of restaurants and has declined to forty or so.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

JayhawkCO

If it's so good that it should be in all service plazas, how come it's endangered?  (Not trying to be snarky, just curious.)

HighwayStar

Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 24, 2022, 01:30:17 PM
If it's so good that it should be in all service plazas, how come it's endangered?  (Not trying to be snarky, just curious.)

Many restaurants that serve an excellent product end up endangered due to market pressure (particularly the race to the bottom) and sometimes mismanagement.

Fuddruckers is a great example of this, my experience and that of everyone I have taken has always been excellent at every location. Top notch quality, everything fresh, on site bakeries, etc.
But it is cheaper to not do everything fresh and to dress up McDonald's level methods to be more than they are, resulting in a cheaper product that is more profitable. So some chains do that and Fuddruckers, despite having a good product, nevertheless suffers in the race to the bottom because other chains market heavily, price a bit lower, and benefit from the race to the bottom while Fuddruckers gradually became too upmarket to survive. (this is by no means limited to restaurants, it is true of most consumer goods)

In the case of Roy Rogers I have never done a deep dive on the subject, but my understanding is something like this.
Hardee's bought them around 1990, and that seems to have been the start of the decline. They converted many to Hardee's locations and failed badly in that venture. They screwed up the products, including the burgers and fries in the process. After trying to return them to Roy Rogers restaurants they eventually sold them off to big chains like McDonalds and Wendy's (down market in other words) that converted them into their restaurants.

So between 1990 and 2002 they went from 648 locations to 63, largely as a result of mismanagement and a race to the bottom similar to what was going on elsewhere in the economy. The losses since have been a gradual erosion, likely due to the difficulty of running medium sized chains in today's environment.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

SP Cook

As to Roy Rogers, and its endangered status, IIRC, Hardee's bought it and tried to convert them to Hardee's but it was popular around the DC metro, and they refused,  and that is pretty much where it remains, along with quite a few turnpike service areas.

But anyway, as to service areas generally.  Leaving out the Boston - NYC - Philly to Chicago and slightly beyond "great toll road" , which still has some free gaps in it, is there really a toll road or combination of toll roads, that are so long that you cannot just hold your food purchases until again on regular roads?

1995hoo

I believe Roy Rogers was always primarily an East Coast chain even prior to the Hardee's debacle discussed above. JayhawkCO mentions never having heard of them before. I remember during my third year of college, one of the guys with whom I shared an apartment was from the Nashville area and when I said something about Roy Rogers once, his reaction was along the lines of, "What the hell is a Roy Rogers?" Whereas for me, having grown up in Fairfax County, Virginia, Roy Rogers had always been part of the fast-food scene.

The main difference between the "service plaza" Roy Rogerses and the "stand-alone" Roy Rogerses is that the service plaza locations use the cafeteria-style service where the food is wrapped up and being kept warm under lights and you take a tray and pick up what you want as you walk through, whereas the stand-alone locations use conventional-style ordering where you tell the cashier what you want and they bring it to you (typically, when I go to to the one near my house they prepare my order right then). The cafeteria-style system always worked well for Roy's at service plazas because the sandwiches do not come with a bunch of schmeck on them–the sandwich comes plain and you go to the "Fixin's Bar" to add whatever items (if any) you want on your sandwich. (At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

HighwayStar

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)

This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

skluth

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)

This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
I thought Fuddruckers problems were more that others did it better. Five Guys and Culver's may not be exactly the same, but both do the fresh burger with several options pretty well. Others prefer Whataburger, In-N-Out, and Red Robin. It's just a highly competitive market and now Shake Shake is the trendy chain. Many cities also have decent local burger joints; I could choose between O'Connell's, Fitz's, and Blueberry Hill when I lived in St Louis. (I recommend all three; Fitz's is my favorite but all are excellent.)

1995hoo

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)

This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.

All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jgb191

Since Whataburger and I share the same birth city, natural logic would have suggested that I prefer to see one of those in a plaza.  But:  A) their food quality has gradually regressed since the start of this century, and B) I could have Whataburger anytime I wanted to have it at home; when I go road tripping, I want to go to food places where we don't have in our area like (Hardee's/Red Burrito, Culvers, Del Taco, Qdoba, Zaxby's just to name some off the top of my head).

We're so far south that we're not even considered "The South"

abefroman329

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)

This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.

All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
There was also a Fuddruckers in Chinatown, at the southwest corner of 7th and H, but I think that has been gone for about a decade.

All of the Fuddruckers in Chicagoland are closed, btw.

1995hoo

Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)

This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.

All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
There was also a Fuddruckers in Chinatown, at the southwest corner of 7th and H, but I think that has been gone for about a decade.

All of the Fuddruckers in Chicagoland are closed, btw.

I forgot about that one. It was near Verizon Center and was always crowded (I didn't eat there because the line was always too long). I believe it's now a Capital One bank.




Quote from: SP Cook on February 24, 2022, 01:47:24 PM
....

But anyway, as to service areas generally.  Leaving out the Boston - NYC - Philly to Chicago and slightly beyond "great toll road" , which still has some free gaps in it, is there really a toll road or combination of toll roads, that are so long that you cannot just hold your food purchases until again on regular roads?

Meant to respond to this. Doesn't it depend in part on when you hit a given toll road? On my last trip to the Miami area, we hit the northern end of Florida's Turnpike in the late morning; we probably could have taken an early lunch before exiting I-75 onto the Turnpike, but we weren't hungry and it was a bit early for lunch by our standards. We decided to stop at the Turkey Lake Service Plaza in the Orlando area mainly because we wanted to hit the head and we decided just to get lunch while we were there because it was another three and a half hours or so to our destination. "Could" we have waited until later for lunch, or "could" we have exited somewhere in the Orlando area north of the "ticket system" to get lunch? Of course. But neither option was in the least bit appealing under the circumstances. Plus my wife gets really grouchy when she gets hungry, especially in the car.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jmacswimmer

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
There was also a Fuddruckers in Chinatown, at the southwest corner of 7th and H, but I think that has been gone for about a decade.
All of the Fuddruckers in Chicagoland are closed, btw.
I forgot about that one. It was near Verizon Center and was always crowded (I didn't eat there because the line was always too long). I believe it's now a Capital One bank.

Meanwhile on the Maryland side of the DC area - The last 2 I knew of were in Silver Spring & Parole (Annapolis suburb), and I think I made it to each one once at some point in 2018.  They've both closed at some point since then, and with that there are no longer any Fuddruckers in the entire state of Maryland.
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

doorknob60

#66
The western US doesn't really have "service plazas" like the east coast does, but there is a Pilot in Stanfield, OR we often stop at when driving to Portland, that has both a McDonalds and Subway inside. My wife and I will often stop there for a lunch/dinner break just for that reason, to give us more food options in one stop. My only complaint stopping there is that Umatilla County is subject to Oregon's self serve gas ban (most of Eastern Oregon is not), and they don't have a lot of fuel pumps, so getting gas can get busy on holidays and weekends. Getting gas is easier at the Love's in Boardman, which is new and has more pumps, and you can self serve. They only have a Carl's Jr inside though.

So I would say if there are two options, have a burger place (McDonalds, Wendys, BK, etc.) and a sandwich place (Subway, Jimmy Johns, etc.). If there are more than two, I'd say something like Taco Bell or Pizza should be next up, then maybe a chicken focused place like Chick Fil A or Popeyes. And I guess you could throw Dunkin/Starbucks at any of them too, though chains like McDonalds can also fill that void.

HighwayStar

Quote from: skluth on February 24, 2022, 02:09:34 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)

This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
I thought Fuddruckers problems were more that others did it better. Five Guys and Culver's may not be exactly the same, but both do the fresh burger with several options pretty well. Others prefer Whataburger, In-N-Out, and Red Robin. It's just a highly competitive market and now Shake Shake is the trendy chain. Many cities also have decent local burger joints; I could choose between O'Connell's, Fitz's, and Blueberry Hill when I lived in St Louis. (I recommend all three; Fitz's is my favorite but all are excellent.)

Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Scott5114

Quote from: jgb191 on February 24, 2022, 02:29:19 PM
Since Whataburger and I share the same birth city, natural logic would have suggested that I prefer to see one of those in a plaza.  But:  A) their food quality has gradually regressed since the start of this century, and B) I could have Whataburger anytime I wanted to have it at home; when I go road tripping, I want to go to food places where we don't have in our area like (Hardee's/Red Burrito, Culvers, Del Taco, Qdoba, Zaxby's just to name some off the top of my head).

Whataburger's service is also far too slow for me to want to indulge in it on a road trip. I would hate to see how they would handle the constant rush of travelers they'd encounter at a busy service plaza.

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.

I like Five Guys' food all right, but the prices are so exorbitant for what it is that I rarely go there. The burger is really not all that different in taste to me than Wendy's is, and Wendy's is far cheaper.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jeffandnicole

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM

Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.

At one time, I understood why Five Guys was better. But that was before they greatly expanded. I don't get why people enjoy their standard meals that run about $15 now. Even the "extra fries at the bottom of the bag" is now just a measured scoop of fries.

webny99

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.

I like Five Guys' food all right, but the prices are so exorbitant for what it is that I rarely go there. The burger is really not all that different in taste to me than Wendy's is, and Wendy's is far cheaper.

The main advantage to Five Guys is that it's more of a "build your own" setup where you can add unlimited toppings for no extra charge. That's worth quite a bit you're someone that likes a lot of toppings on your burger (bacon, mushrooms, grilled onions, etc. are an extra dollar plus each at most burger places).

I also think their burgers are noticeably better than your standard burger from BK/McD's/Wendy's - more comparable to a Red Robin or similar - although the difference really isn't that vast on the larger spectrum.

HighwayStar

Quote from: webny99 on February 24, 2022, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.

I like Five Guys' food all right, but the prices are so exorbitant for what it is that I rarely go there. The burger is really not all that different in taste to me than Wendy's is, and Wendy's is far cheaper.

The main advantage to Five Guys is that it's more of a "build your own" setup where you can add unlimited toppings for no extra charge. That's worth quite a bit you're someone that likes a lot of toppings on your burger (bacon, mushrooms, grilled onions, etc. are an extra dollar plus each at most burger places).

I also think their burgers are noticeably better than your standard burger from BK/McD's/Wendy's - more comparable to a Red Robin or similar - although the difference really isn't that vast on the larger spectrum.

Have you ever actually been to Fuddruckers? It was truly "build your own" ie, a massive well stocked fixings bar that you put whatever you wanted, in any quantity you wanted, on your sandwich by yourself.

Five guys however knows that that is expensive, and the bean counters know that if you want x, y, z on your burger it costs less to just include that behind counter, so they can control the quantity of ingredients used very carefully and get by with less fresh ingredients. Five guys is not "build your own", and its not as good of a value proposition.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Flint1979


DenverBrian

Fuddruckers > Five Guys > In-N-Out > Culvers > Wendy's > Burger King > McDonald's > minor burger chains > a poke in the eye with a sharp stick > Whatasaltyburger

There, that should do it. :D :D :D



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