Quote from: ilpt4u on March 26, 2022, 10:45:45 AM
I haven't driven I-65 in Northern Indiana in a few years time...but even 20 years ago the truck traffic was insane
I got to the point, going between Chicagoland and Southern Indiana, that I preferred the much more relaxing, even if a bit slower, haul down US 41/IN 63/US 41 down to US 50/150 and over, versus down I-65, around on I-465, and then down then-IN 37/becoming I-69
I get the same feelings on I-57 between Marion and Mt Vernon in Illinois, at least until IDOT finishes the 6 laning project. So many trucks its just not comfortable to drive or even safe
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 26, 2022, 10:33:37 AMDon't quote me on that one I remember asking about it to someone familiar with previous widening jobs on 65 and they mentioned that that was a candidate to be widened next since it would connect to what was done last. No idea when it would happen, I just took it as it's probably under design now.
Yes, the truck traffic is beyond ridiculous. Hopefully the infrastructure deal will speed up this process.
I hadn't heard about the segment from 10 to 2. Where did you see that?
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 26, 2022, 03:51:58 PM
As far as I can tell, the red bits of I-65 between I-80/I-94 and I-865 in the image below have three lanes or more in both directions, while the bits in purple are being expanded. That leaves quite a bit to go, though.
(https://i.imgur.com/27YEAlj.png)
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 26, 2022, 03:51:58 PM
(Map)
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 26, 2022, 04:08:36 PM
some people on this thread say the Indy to Louisville section is worse. I think the Indy to Chicago one is but I go that way way more.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 26, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
You only have the stop segment down to US 30 but it actually goes to IN 2.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 26, 2022, 04:08:36 PMIdk that much about Indy-Louisville, as I have no reason to use it based on my location, but Indy-Chicago also takes in traffic from Cincinnati (I-74, which I commonly use) and Columbus (I-70) to Chicago. And in Louisville, NB I-65 loses some traffic to I-71 going towards Ohio, western PA and western NY. So I would imagine that Indy-Chicago is busier.
some people on this thread say the Indy to Louisville section is worse. I think the Indy to Chicago one is but I go that way way more.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 26, 2022, 08:59:09 PMConversely, I-65 south of Indy gets the "Chicagoland Bypass" traffic from I-39/I-74 that is headed to the Southeast USQuote from: silverback1065 on March 26, 2022, 04:08:36 PMIdk that much about Indy-Louisville, as I have no reason to use it based on my location, but Indy-Chicago also takes in traffic from Cincinnati (I-74, which I commonly use) and Columbus (I-70) to Chicago. And in Louisville, NB I-65 loses some traffic to I-71 going towards Ohio, western PA and western NY. So I would imagine that Indy-Chicago is busier.
some people on this thread say the Indy to Louisville section is worse. I think the Indy to Chicago one is but I go that way way more.
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 26, 2022, 09:43:45 PMQuote from: SkyPesos on March 26, 2022, 08:59:09 PMConversely, I-65 south of Indy gets the "Chicagoland Bypass" traffic from I-39/I-74 that is headed to the Southeast USQuote from: silverback1065 on March 26, 2022, 04:08:36 PMIdk that much about Indy-Louisville, as I have no reason to use it based on my location, but Indy-Chicago also takes in traffic from Cincinnati (I-74, which I commonly use) and Columbus (I-70) to Chicago. And in Louisville, NB I-65 loses some traffic to I-71 going towards Ohio, western PA and western NY. So I would imagine that Indy-Chicago is busier.
some people on this thread say the Indy to Louisville section is worse. I think the Indy to Chicago one is but I go that way way more.
Also gets the Michigan traffic headed down I-69 to points south
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 26, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
I get why it makes sense to work from each end when filling in that gap, but from a traffic standpoint, I'd rather have them do IN 114 to US 24 next, to give people a spot to get by all the trucks they've been stuck behind.
Quote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
Pointing back to one of my posts in the US 31 upgrade thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25334.msg2678660#msg2678660). Go down to the fourth post to see traffic volumes and a discussion on which freeways should be widened first.
I favor spreading the upgrades across all of the Interstates rather than just widening I-65. Yes, driving I-65 is frustrating, but the same goes for sections of I-69 and I-70. I think that is the way INDOT is looking at it as well.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2022, 03:27:20 PMQuote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
Pointing back to one of my posts in the US 31 upgrade thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25334.msg2678660#msg2678660). Go down to the fourth post to see traffic volumes and a discussion on which freeways should be widened first.
I favor spreading the upgrades across all of the Interstates rather than just widening I-65. Yes, driving I-65 is frustrating, but the same goes for sections of I-69 and I-70. I think that is the way INDOT is looking at it as well.
I rarely drive I-70 so I can't speak to that, but there are absolutely zero sections of I-69 that are only 4 lanes that are as bad as I-65. Traffic volumes may be comparable but I-69 has far, far fewer trucks.
I don't remember where I saw it, but I-65 has significantly higher accident rates than I-70.
Quote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:32:50 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2022, 03:27:20 PMQuote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
Pointing back to one of my posts in the US 31 upgrade thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25334.msg2678660#msg2678660). Go down to the fourth post to see traffic volumes and a discussion on which freeways should be widened first.
I favor spreading the upgrades across all of the Interstates rather than just widening I-65. Yes, driving I-65 is frustrating, but the same goes for sections of I-69 and I-70. I think that is the way INDOT is looking at it as well.
I rarely drive I-70 so I can't speak to that, but there are absolutely zero sections of I-69 that are only 4 lanes that are as bad as I-65. Traffic volumes may be comparable but I-69 has far, far fewer trucks.
I don't remember where I saw it, but I-65 has significantly higher accident rates than I-70.
Actually, I-69 is also very truck heavy as it is a primary corridor between Canada and the US. I maintain the two sections of I-69 in that table are legitimate. If you can find objective truck volume numbers to indicate otherwise, please share.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2022, 03:40:11 PMQuote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:32:50 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2022, 03:27:20 PMQuote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
Pointing back to one of my posts in the US 31 upgrade thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25334.msg2678660#msg2678660). Go down to the fourth post to see traffic volumes and a discussion on which freeways should be widened first.
I favor spreading the upgrades across all of the Interstates rather than just widening I-65. Yes, driving I-65 is frustrating, but the same goes for sections of I-69 and I-70. I think that is the way INDOT is looking at it as well.
I rarely drive I-70 so I can't speak to that, but there are absolutely zero sections of I-69 that are only 4 lanes that are as bad as I-65. Traffic volumes may be comparable but I-69 has far, far fewer trucks.
I don't remember where I saw it, but I-65 has significantly higher accident rates than I-70.
Actually, I-69 is also very truck heavy as it is a primary corridor between Canada and the US. I maintain the two sections of I-69 in that table are legitimate. If you can find objective truck volume numbers to indicate otherwise, please share.
Those segments of I-69 are both pretty short. You're not getting held up for very long by traffic in those segments. If we're talking about getting the most increase in traffic flow and safety on the dollar, the 65 and 70 upgrades should be prioritized.
Quote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 10:36:42 PM
The current I-65 widenings are also short sections.
My opinion is that the most increase in traffic flow and safety for the dollar will be based on actual traffic volumes. It would be very hard for INDOT to justify favoring only two highways when there is objective evidence suggesting the needs are higher on other highways.
One factor not mentioned for I-65 south of Indy is that the completion of I-69 should reduce some of the I-65 traffic headed to places like Nashville.
Quote from: Crash_It on March 28, 2022, 07:56:16 PM
Or even better INDOT can just implement lane restrictions and also ban trucks from passing. Can't count how many times invested been cut off by a truck just so he can pass the other one that's going 0.5mph slower.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2022, 09:58:15 AMQuote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 10:36:42 PM
The current I-65 widenings are also short sections.
My opinion is that the most increase in traffic flow and safety for the dollar will be based on actual traffic volumes. It would be very hard for INDOT to justify favoring only two highways when there is objective evidence suggesting the needs are higher on other highways.
One factor not mentioned for I-65 south of Indy is that the completion of I-69 should reduce some of the I-65 traffic headed to places like Nashville.
Sure, you can cherry pick data in lots of ways to make your argument. A better determination of need would not be traffic counts over short segments, but average traffic counts over longer stretches. You might wait a mile or two to get by a truck on 69, you can wait 10+ miles on 65.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2022, 03:27:20 PM
I rarely drive I-70 so I can't speak to that, but there are absolutely zero sections of I-69 that are only 4 lanes that are as bad as I-65. Traffic volumes may be comparable but I-69 has far, far fewer trucks.
I don't remember where I saw it, but I-65 has significantly higher accident rates than I-70.
Quote from: mukade on March 28, 2022, 09:24:52 PMTo get an Apples-Apples comparison for I-69 at the Northeast Side and I-65 on the Northwest side, traffic counts on I-65 approaching the 865 exit would be a better comparison, since I-65 doesn't carry all of its traffic to the I-465 Beltway, whereas I-69 has no such "early" split - it funnels its traffic to the Northeast corner of 465
FWIW, the busiest section of I-69 has an AADT of 155K while busiest section of I-65 (other than where it overlaps with I-70 in downtown Indy) has an AADT of 126K. The I-465/I-69 north interchange is the busiest one in the Indianapolis area. So it is not like I-65 is in a league by itself.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2022, 03:27:20 PMI haven't driven I-70 between Indy and Dayton in a while, so no opinions on that, but I-70 between I-57 and Indy is noticeably busy (thanks to truck traffic coming from places like Texas/Mexico towards Michigan/Canada from NB 57), but not as much as I-65.Quote from: mukade on March 27, 2022, 03:10:25 PM
Pointing back to one of my posts in the US 31 upgrade thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25334.msg2678660#msg2678660). Go down to the fourth post to see traffic volumes and a discussion on which freeways should be widened first.
I favor spreading the upgrades across all of the Interstates rather than just widening I-65. Yes, driving I-65 is frustrating, but the same goes for sections of I-69 and I-70. I think that is the way INDOT is looking at it as well.
I rarely drive I-70 so I can't speak to that, but there are absolutely zero sections of I-69 that are only 4 lanes that are as bad as I-65. Traffic volumes may be comparable but I-69 has far, far fewer trucks.
I don't remember where I saw it, but I-65 has significantly higher accident rates than I-70.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 29, 2022, 08:25:27 AMOhioDOT could look to widen their part of I-70 between the IN line and MM 29 then, if INDOT will get that far. East of MM 29, with existing ODOT widening projects wrapping up, it's pretty much 6+ lanes all the way to the I-670 split.
I believe INDOT announced that I-70 from SR 1 to ohio state line will be widened. :hmmm: I seem to remember hearing that the Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part will be too but I can't find info on that one.
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 28, 2022, 09:46:48 PMQuote from: mukade on March 28, 2022, 09:24:52 PMTo get an Apples-Apples comparison for I-69 at the Northeast Side and I-65 on the Northwest side, traffic counts on I-65 approaching the 865 exit would be a better comparison, since I-65 doesn't carry all of its traffic to the I-465 Beltway, whereas I-69 has no such "early" split - it funnels its traffic to the Northeast corner of 465
FWIW, the busiest section of I-69 has an AADT of 155K while busiest section of I-65 (other than where it overlaps with I-70 in downtown Indy) has an AADT of 126K. The I-465/I-69 north interchange is the busiest one in the Indianapolis area. So it is not like I-65 is in a league by itself.
Is 465/69 really busier than the 465/70/IND Airport interchange?
QuoteSource: How a major I-465 project will help make the I-69 corridor safer (https://fox59.com/news/how-a-major-i-465-project-will-help-make-the-i-69-corridor-safer/)
This is an area that has seen tremendous growth over the last 25 years," said Scott Manning, Deputy Director with INDOT.
If you drive the interchange during the morning or a night on a regular basis, the corridor is a very high traffic area and INDOT says it's no surprise.
Manning said the interchange is Indiana's busiest with nearly 100,000 drivers traveling through the area every day.
Rank | Name | 2022 Pop. | 2010 Census | Change | I-65 | I-69 |
1 | Indianapolis | 892,656 | 821,579 | 8.65% | X | X |
2 | Fort Wayne | 279,228 | 254,161 | 9.86% | X | |
3 | Evansville | 117,736 | 120,091 | -1.96% | X | |
4 | Carmel | 106,843 | 84,508 | 26.43% | X | X |
5 | South Bend | 102,191 | 101,197 | 0.98% | ||
6 | Fishers | 101,019 | 77,832 | 29.79% | X | |
7 | Bloomington | 87,603 | 80,612 | 8.67% | X | |
8 | Hammond | 74,457 | 80,718 | -7.76% | X | |
9 | Gary | 73,886 | 80,155 | -7.82% | X | |
10 | Lafayette | 70,185 | 68,925 | 1.83% | X | |
11 | Noblesville | 68,763 | 52,909 | 29.96% | X | |
12 | Muncie | 67,651 | 70,193 | -3.62% | X |
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 29, 2022, 09:32:21 PMNever let FACTS get in the way of a good STORY...come on, now
All of that there conveniently ignores that 65 connects the Chicago and Louisville metro areas, which dwarf Fort Wayne, Evansville and the rest.
Quote from: tdindy88 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:02 AMThe part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Yeah, that Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part should be the next thing to be widened along I-70, I think it may very well begin this year.
Back to I-65 from Indy to Chicago, I would imagine that the part from SR 10 to SR 2 would be more imminent than not since they went through the trouble of widening those bridges over the Kankakee River. I would guess that widening that would be pretty simple at this stage. As for where to go next, I think they should finish widening I-65 from SR 47 up to SR 28 to create a six-lane corridor from I-865 to Lafayette. Then they can slowly go north from there and work on the White/Jasper County portion of the highway.
Quote from: dvferyance on April 04, 2022, 08:26:36 PMCan you post the traffic study you did to warrant that opinion?Quote from: tdindy88 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:02 AMThe part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Yeah, that Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part should be the next thing to be widened along I-70, I think it may very well begin this year.
Back to I-65 from Indy to Chicago, I would imagine that the part from SR 10 to SR 2 would be more imminent than not since they went through the trouble of widening those bridges over the Kankakee River. I would guess that widening that would be pretty simple at this stage. As for where to go next, I think they should finish widening I-65 from SR 47 up to SR 28 to create a six-lane corridor from I-865 to Lafayette. Then they can slowly go north from there and work on the White/Jasper County portion of the highway.
Quote from: dvferyance on April 04, 2022, 08:26:36 PMQuote from: tdindy88 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:02 AMThe part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Yeah, that Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part should be the next thing to be widened along I-70, I think it may very well begin this year.
Back to I-65 from Indy to Chicago, I would imagine that the part from SR 10 to SR 2 would be more imminent than not since they went through the trouble of widening those bridges over the Kankakee River. I would guess that widening that would be pretty simple at this stage. As for where to go next, I think they should finish widening I-65 from SR 47 up to SR 28 to create a six-lane corridor from I-865 to Lafayette. Then they can slowly go north from there and work on the White/Jasper County portion of the highway.
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 04, 2022, 08:31:50 PM
Can you post the traffic study you did to warrant that opinion?
Quote from: SignGeniusPTOE on April 26, 2022, 03:29:42 PM
All I-65 needs is a good chip and seal job, which should take it to 2050 easily.
Quote from: SignGeniusPTOE on April 26, 2022, 03:29:42 PM
All I-65 needs is a good chip and seal job, which should take it to 2050 easily.
Quote from: SignGeniusPTOE on April 26, 2022, 03:29:42 PMHeh. Either you're being sarcastic or are from Wyoming. :D
All I-65 needs is a good chip and seal job, which should take it to 2050 easily.
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 04, 2022, 08:31:50 PMJust take a drive down there. Have you ever been there? Nothing but cornfields as for as the eye can see. The development stops around 231 by then you are out of Chicagoland.Quote from: dvferyance on April 04, 2022, 08:26:36 PMCan you post the traffic study you did to warrant that opinion?Quote from: tdindy88 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:02 AMThe part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Yeah, that Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part should be the next thing to be widened along I-70, I think it may very well begin this year.
Back to I-65 from Indy to Chicago, I would imagine that the part from SR 10 to SR 2 would be more imminent than not since they went through the trouble of widening those bridges over the Kankakee River. I would guess that widening that would be pretty simple at this stage. As for where to go next, I think they should finish widening I-65 from SR 47 up to SR 28 to create a six-lane corridor from I-865 to Lafayette. Then they can slowly go north from there and work on the White/Jasper County portion of the highway.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 02, 2022, 03:22:09 PMQuote from: silverback1065 on April 04, 2022, 08:31:50 PMJust take a drive down there. Have you ever been there? Nothing but cornfields as for as the eye can see. The development stops around 231 by then you are out of Chicagoland.Quote from: dvferyance on April 04, 2022, 08:26:36 PMCan you post the traffic study you did to warrant that opinion?Quote from: tdindy88 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:02 AMThe part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Yeah, that Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part should be the next thing to be widened along I-70, I think it may very well begin this year.
Back to I-65 from Indy to Chicago, I would imagine that the part from SR 10 to SR 2 would be more imminent than not since they went through the trouble of widening those bridges over the Kankakee River. I would guess that widening that would be pretty simple at this stage. As for where to go next, I think they should finish widening I-65 from SR 47 up to SR 28 to create a six-lane corridor from I-865 to Lafayette. Then they can slowly go north from there and work on the White/Jasper County portion of the highway.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 02, 2022, 03:22:09 PMYour traffic study had no mention of the road itself, just the surroundings.Quote from: silverback1065 on April 04, 2022, 08:31:50 PMJust take a drive down there. Have you ever been there? Nothing but cornfields as for as the eye can see. The development stops around 231 by then you are out of Chicagoland.Quote from: dvferyance on April 04, 2022, 08:26:36 PMCan you post the traffic study you did to warrant that opinion?
The part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 02, 2022, 03:22:09 PMQuote from: silverback1065 on April 04, 2022, 08:31:50 PMJust take a drive down there. Have you ever been there? Nothing but cornfields as for as the eye can see. The development stops around 231 by then you are out of Chicagoland.Quote from: dvferyance on April 04, 2022, 08:26:36 PMCan you post the traffic study you did to warrant that opinion?Quote from: tdindy88 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:02 AMThe part from US 231 to SR 2 was overkill enough. Why go even further? While I supported the widening from US 30 to US 231 100% going all the way to SR 2 was not needed and was a waste of money. It's not that busy it did not need 3 lanes.
Yeah, that Mt. Comfort to SR 3 part should be the next thing to be widened along I-70, I think it may very well begin this year.
Back to I-65 from Indy to Chicago, I would imagine that the part from SR 10 to SR 2 would be more imminent than not since they went through the trouble of widening those bridges over the Kankakee River. I would guess that widening that would be pretty simple at this stage. As for where to go next, I think they should finish widening I-65 from SR 47 up to SR 28 to create a six-lane corridor from I-865 to Lafayette. Then they can slowly go north from there and work on the White/Jasper County portion of the highway.
Quote...
Preparation for an interchange coincides with state moves to advance the LEAP Innovation and Research District, a project spearheaded by the Indiana Economic Development Corp. that will occupy upward of 7,000 acres along the western and northern outskirts of Lebanon.
The district’s northern section—which will be anchored by a $2.1 billion advanced manufacturing project by Eli Lilly and Co. announced in May—will extend as far out as West County Road 450 North.
INDOT last month notified local and state officials—as well as a handful of outside organizations—that it is proceeding with improvements to the I-65 corridor. In its notification letter, the agency said the project is being driven by the innovation district and continued growth in Boone County.
“The purpose of the proposed [interchange] project is to provide improved mobility and direct access to the areas east and west of I-65, north of Lebanon, including future planned land uses,” the June 21 correspondence said. “Additionally, the purpose of the proposed project is to reduce future traffic congestion that is expected as a result of the anticipated economic development” in those areas.
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