Who Is Working United States Thanksgiving X? (2022 Edition)

Started by ZLoth, November 19, 2022, 09:11:24 AM

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abefroman329

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

The union contributed to this environment as well. They insisted that if you kept an employee a minute past their end time, they were entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay. I offered them the option of either being flexible at both ends of the shift or neither end and they chose the latter.
They didn't "contribute" by ensuring their members were compensated for the work they did.  "If you work a minute past your end time, you're entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay" was a deterrent for the employer, just like threatening non-union employees with termination for showing up one minute later is a deterrent for the employees.


NWI_Irish96

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

The union contributed to this environment as well. They insisted that if you kept an employee a minute past their end time, they were entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay. I offered them the option of either being flexible at both ends of the shift or neither end and they chose the latter.
They didn't "contribute" by ensuring their members were compensated for the work they did.  "If you work a minute past your end time, you're entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay" was a deterrent for the employer, just like threatening non-union employees with termination for showing up one minute later is a deterrent for the employees.

To be clear, employees weren't threatened with termination for being one minute late. They were just counted as starting their shift 15 minutes late with the option of taking 15 minutes of PTO or staying 15 minutes late at the end of the day. Disciplinary action was never a part of it.
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abefroman329

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

The union contributed to this environment as well. They insisted that if you kept an employee a minute past their end time, they were entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay. I offered them the option of either being flexible at both ends of the shift or neither end and they chose the latter.
They didn't "contribute" by ensuring their members were compensated for the work they did.  "If you work a minute past your end time, you're entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay" was a deterrent for the employer, just like threatening non-union employees with termination for showing up one minute later is a deterrent for the employees.

To be clear, employees weren't threatened with termination for being one minute late. They were just counted as starting their shift 15 minutes late with the option of taking 15 minutes of PTO or staying 15 minutes late at the end of the day. Disciplinary action was never a part of it.
Right, I'm just pointing out what happens in non-union workplaces.

kkt

I'm glad my work had things to worry about that were more significant than an employee clocking in at 9:02 when they should have been there are 9:00.

Rothman

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

The union contributed to this environment as well. They insisted that if you kept an employee a minute past their end time, they were entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay. I offered them the option of either being flexible at both ends of the shift or neither end and they chose the latter.
They didn't "contribute" by ensuring their members were compensated for the work they did.  "If you work a minute past your end time, you're entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay" was a deterrent for the employer, just like threatening non-union employees with termination for showing up one minute later is a deterrent for the employees.

To be clear, employees weren't threatened with termination for being one minute late. They were just counted as starting their shift 15 minutes late with the option of taking 15 minutes of PTO or staying 15 minutes late at the end of the day. Disciplinary action was never a part of it.
Eesh.  Horrible workplace.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

formulanone

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:34:11 AM
To be clear, employees weren't threatened with termination for being one minute late. They were just counted as starting their shift 15 minutes late with the option of taking 15 minutes of PTO or staying 15 minutes late at the end of the day. Disciplinary action was never a part of it.

That's the kind of place I don't want to patronize.

I've had to wait to clock in at one workplace with an electronic timeclock, and if 10 people were trying to clock in at 7:30am, at least one or two were 1 minute late by the time each 5-10 second punch was accepted.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: formulanone on November 22, 2022, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:34:11 AM
To be clear, employees weren't threatened with termination for being one minute late. They were just counted as starting their shift 15 minutes late with the option of taking 15 minutes of PTO or staying 15 minutes late at the end of the day. Disciplinary action was never a part of it.

That's the kind of place I don't want to patronize.

I've had to wait to clock in at one workplace with an electronic timeclock, and if 10 people were trying to clock in at 7:30am, at least one or two were 1 minute late by the time each 5-10 second punch was accepted.

So, to give a bit more background. This is one department at my particular workplace. I got moved there because there had been lots of problems. The union got punching time clocks eliminated a long time ago specifically for the reason you noted.

The original operating procedure was that if you showed up between 6:53-7:07 you were counted as starting at 7:00, 7:08-7:22 as starting at 7:15, etc. Then employees decided they wanted to push it by arguing that they if they showed up at 7:08 but weren't counted as starting until 7:15 that they were working for free, essentially saying that they should get credit for up to 7 minutes but not be on the hook for up to 7 on the other end. This is the same department where an employee filed a grievance because a call "with a customer" ran over and shortened her lunch, only to end up with phone records showing that the call was to her sister. It's a department that literally doesn't want to work and files grievances over every little thing. They were treated like they were children because they were behaving like children.

I've managed five other departments before and since that one, and in each of those these issues never came up. People were late so infrequently that nobody needed to do anything about it. The problem department ended up getting eliminated shortly after I left and the employees and their tasks absorbed into other departments. Half the employees retired/resigned rather than move to a department where the majority of the workers didn't want any part of their shenanigans.
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Rothman

Yeah, I am sticking by deeming it a horrible workplace.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

abefroman329

Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Yeah, I am sticking by deeming it a horrible workplace.
Agreed.  If I had a nickel for every time an employer tried to screw me out of the pay I was entitled to under labor laws, I could retire.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Yeah, I am sticking by deeming it a horrible workplace.
Agreed.  If I had a nickel for every time an employer tried to screw me out of the pay I was entitled to under labor laws, I could retire.

You're entitled to your opinion, but as a factual matter at no point was anybody trying to screw anybody out of anything they were entitled to. Nobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Max Rockatansky

Seems that I won't be working on Black Friday for the first time in 22 years of being in retail security.  My wife came down with a case of COVID and passed it along to me over the weekend.  Since I work for a federal body, we still follow CDC guidance which means I'm out until at minimum Saturday. 

Rothman

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Yeah, I am sticking by deeming it a horrible workplace.
Agreed.  If I had a nickel for every time an employer tried to screw me out of the pay I was entitled to under labor laws, I could retire.

You're entitled to your opinion, but as a factual matter at no point was anybody trying to screw anybody out of anything they were entitled to. Nobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
Yeah, but the whole tone that's coming across from your own recounting is extremely negative and skeptically one-sided.

Makes me feel a whole lot better about how things are going in my own workplace.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

abefroman329

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

skluth

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

The union contributed to this environment as well. They insisted that if you kept an employee a minute past their end time, they were entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay. I offered them the option of either being flexible at both ends of the shift or neither end and they chose the latter.
They didn't "contribute" by ensuring their members were compensated for the work they did.  "If you work a minute past your end time, you're entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay" was a deterrent for the employer, just like threatening non-union employees with termination for showing up one minute later is a deterrent for the employees.

To be clear, employees weren't threatened with termination for being one minute late. They were just counted as starting their shift 15 minutes late with the option of taking 15 minutes of PTO or staying 15 minutes late at the end of the day. Disciplinary action was never a part of it.

By their own definition, the company's policy was disciplinary.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

abefroman329

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PMNobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
Exempt employees are.

kphoger

Thursday is a corporate holiday, so no employees are working.  It's possible that our field techs will be working in one or more regions, but that doesn't really affect us in the office.

Most office staff also take Friday off.  However, Friday of every week is a cutoff for me to approve remittance to our company from Cox Communications.  That is to say, if I don't approve it by midday on Friday, then it doesn't pay out to us that week.  If I were to take both Thursday and Friday off with nobody to cover me, then payment for two days' worth of work would be delayed a week.  Therefore, nobody puts up a fight when I ask to come in for a half-day and audit those two days' remittance.  But I'm pretty much on my own and can leave whenever I want.  So I'll probably go in from around 8:00 to noon or whatever.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
Nobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.

I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.

This, of course, depends on the individual company policies.  For example, at my work, if there's a long power or internet outage and we eventually get sent home early, they'll generally pay us for the full day because it wasn't our fault.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kkt

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 22, 2022, 02:17:33 PM
Seems that I won't be working on Black Friday for the first time in 22 years of being in retail security.  My wife came down with a case of COVID and passed it along to me over the weekend.  Since I work for a federal body, we still follow CDC guidance which means I'm out until at minimum Saturday. 

Best wishes for a mild case, Max!

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kkt on November 22, 2022, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 22, 2022, 02:17:33 PM
Seems that I won't be working on Black Friday for the first time in 22 years of being in retail security.  My wife came down with a case of COVID and passed it along to me over the weekend.  Since I work for a federal body, we still follow CDC guidance which means I'm out until at minimum Saturday. 

Best wishes for a mild case, Max!

I'm fairly certain this is the third time I've had COVID, but this is the first confirmed.  My wife got sick and by proxy got me.  I had a mild fever last night but it already broke.

hbelkins

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 22, 2022, 02:17:33 PM
Seems that I won't be working on Black Friday for the first time in 22 years of being in retail security.  My wife came down with a case of COVID and passed it along to me over the weekend.  Since I work for a federal body, we still follow CDC guidance which means I'm out until at minimum Saturday.

I'm corn-fused. "Retail security" but "federal body." Do you work for a PX or a commissary on a military base or VA hospital or something?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: hbelkins on November 22, 2022, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 22, 2022, 02:17:33 PM
Seems that I won't be working on Black Friday for the first time in 22 years of being in retail security.  My wife came down with a case of COVID and passed it along to me over the weekend.  Since I work for a federal body, we still follow CDC guidance which means I'm out until at minimum Saturday.

I'm corn-fused. "Retail security" but "federal body." Do you work for a PX or a commissary on a military base or VA hospital or something?

I do, PX specifically. 

Road Hog

I'm off Thanksgiving Day proper, but I have to close the store Wednesday night and open it at 6 a.m. on Black Friday, so I can't leave town.

hbelkins

To join in on the discussion of pay increments, my time is measured in 15-minute (quarter-hour) segments. I'm on call 24-7 but a lot of my duties can be handled at home. My boss has insisted that I record any time that I work and get paid for it. So if I get a work-related call at night or on the weekends and I only spend five minutes on it, I have to charge 15 minutes (0.25 hours).

My workweek is 37.5 hours (7.5 hours each day) but there's talk that we will go to 8-hour days sometime next year (which will mean a nice raise). Currently, any hours worked between 37.5 and 40 hours in a week are compensated by comp time. Beyond 40 hours is compensated by either time-and-a-half comp time or OT pay at time-and-a-half. For years, I chose comp time but finally changed to OT pay after the July flash flooding in our area. Unfortunately, a lot of my overtime hours worked have been offset by the need to take leave time for various personal issues, which means I don't work a full 40 hours and thus don't get the pay.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Rothman

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

Customers pay us to do a job. If I allow someone 7 minutes every day, that's a day's worth of work in a quarter. If I allow every employee 7 minutes every day, that's an entire day by which a deadline is missed, OR the customer has to pay for overtime to make up for it.

Again, there was every attempt to be flexible until the workers forced the issue, which was working fine in other departments, but this group refused to leave well enough alone.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%



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