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Who Is Working United States Thanksgiving X? (2022 Edition)

Started by ZLoth, November 19, 2022, 09:11:24 AM

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webny99

Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

I actually see more rigidity from the employees in this case... especially the one who would wait to be 4 minutes late. That's way overboard.


jgb191

Thankfully I work in the aviation industry, and airports never close, so you bet I am gladly working some major overtime hours all this week and cash my inflated check in a couple weeks!  To me all holidays including Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving are just another routine days for me with one simple exception: work overtime and earn a lot of extra money that I don't ordinarily earn most weeks and weekends.

After busy long weekends on Veterans Day and Thanksgiving, we'll get to catch our breath for a few weeks before another busy period of Christmas and New Years, and another little bit of a breather before one final busy long weekend on MLK Day.

My employer allows us the option to either earn holiday bonus pay or save these holidays for later observance on a day of our selection.  So that means while the mass majority of travelers knock themselves out during the peak holiday periods, we'll get to earn extra pay and take our holidays after the busy travel season is over and enjoy much cheaper traveling while everybody else is back to work again.  Flexibility is the key to enjoying travel life.  Even road tripping during the holidays is very hectic when everyone is on the roads at the same time.
We're so far south that we're not even considered "The South"

Rothman

Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

I actually see more rigidity from the employees in this case... especially the one who would wait to be 4 minutes late. That's way overboard.
Again, we're only hearing half the story.

The more I think about it, the more a failure in management is a possibility.  It sounds like actions taken were punitive and escalatory, causing a reactionary cycle.

Remember that an entire section was lost to this fiasco and people assigned to other already existing units.  So, instead of having and being able to restore a separate, productive unit, the end was less specialized productivity for the company.

And what for?  The mantra of "Nobody gets paid to do less than 8 hours of work..."  The main goal of the company is to produce their product.  Seems that was lost in pursuit of time clock accuracy, probably in the name of exaggerated senses of time theft (the company is paying for those minutes!!).

Just seems like some better approaches to managing personnel than focusing on minutes on the time clock could have helped preserve the situation from the get-go.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

1995hoo

It seems like no matter where you go, there will be people who abuse the system. Today being the day before a holiday reminds me of the firm where I worked in the late 1990s. They regularly closed early the day before a holiday–but they never confirmed either the early closing or the precise time until midday that day. Reason: Once upon a time, they would announce early closings the day before so people could plan ahead (which is quite reasonable for carpoolers, or for the one lady who slugged), but several of the staff members decided they would "take lunch" one hour before the early closing time and then just not come back, effectively getting an extra hour off. That annoyed the higher-ups because it wasn't what they intended. In principle, it seems to me that management could have just said something along the lines of there being no lunch break in view of the shorter work day and the early closing (and DC labor laws would have been on their side), but instead they just waited to announce the early closings.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2022, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

I actually see more rigidity from the employees in this case... especially the one who would wait to be 4 minutes late. That's way overboard.
Again, we're only hearing half the story.

The more I think about it, the more a failure in management is a possibility.  It sounds like actions taken were punitive and escalatory, causing a reactionary cycle.

Remember that an entire section was lost to this fiasco and people assigned to other already existing units.  So, instead of having and being able to restore a separate, productive unit, the end was less specialized productivity for the company.

And what for?  The mantra of "Nobody gets paid to do less than 8 hours of work..."  The main goal of the company is to produce their product.  Seems that was lost in pursuit of time clock accuracy, probably in the name of exaggerated senses of time theft (the company is paying for those minutes!!).

Just seems like some better approaches to managing personnel than focusing on minutes on the time clock could have helped preserve the situation from the get-go.

Again, you're entitled to your own opinion, but I've managed five other departments, all of them very successful, with employees who liked the environment.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

ZLoth

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 23, 2022, 08:25:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2022, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

I actually see more rigidity from the employees in this case... especially the one who would wait to be 4 minutes late. That's way overboard.
Again, we're only hearing half the story.

The more I think about it, the more a failure in management is a possibility.  It sounds like actions taken were punitive and escalatory, causing a reactionary cycle.

Remember that an entire section was lost to this fiasco and people assigned to other already existing units.  So, instead of having and being able to restore a separate, productive unit, the end was less specialized productivity for the company.

And what for?  The mantra of "Nobody gets paid to do less than 8 hours of work..."  The main goal of the company is to produce their product.  Seems that was lost in pursuit of time clock accuracy, probably in the name of exaggerated senses of time theft (the company is paying for those minutes!!).

Just seems like some better approaches to managing personnel than focusing on minutes on the time clock could have helped preserve the situation from the get-go.

Again, you're entitled to your own opinion, but I've managed five other departments, all of them very successful, with employees who liked the environment.

There is more flexibility when the employee is salaried than when they have to punch a clock.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Max Rockatansky

I've seen employers equally anal about the timeliness of salaried employees.  A couple years back I was at a staff meeting where the general manager made it completely clear her expectation was that salaried people fill out a late slip if they showed up one minute past their start time.  I doubt any of them actually ended up obliging, I know that I didn't when I was told to report when I left the area to go hike on days off. 

hotdogPi

When I worked at Stop & Shop, everything was rounded to the nearest 15 minutes. Employers were only worried about gaming the average, not the exact number of minutes for every single clock in. Note that this was a union job.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Takumi

I'm now off. I'm working New Year's instead. Longer shift, more pay.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

abefroman329

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

Customers pay us to do a job. If I allow someone 7 minutes every day, that's a day's worth of work in a quarter. If I allow every employee 7 minutes every day, that's an entire day by which a deadline is missed, OR the customer has to pay for overtime to make up for it.

Again, there was every attempt to be flexible until the workers forced the issue, which was working fine in other departments, but this group refused to leave well enough alone.
It sounds like the employees were exercising their rights as union employees and management didn't like it.  A tale as old as time, but at least you didn't hire anyone to beat the crap out of them.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 23, 2022, 12:21:52 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 22, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 22, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 02:07:58 PMNobody is entitled to be paid 8 hours for working less than 8 hours.
I worked for several law firms where I, as a paralegal, was entitled to a minimum of X hours of overtime if I was asked to work on a weekend day.

We have that policy as well, but this is for regular time. Nobody is entitled to work fewer than 8 hours and get paid for 8 hours.
The rigidity is screaming.

Customers pay us to do a job. If I allow someone 7 minutes every day, that's a day's worth of work in a quarter. If I allow every employee 7 minutes every day, that's an entire day by which a deadline is missed, OR the customer has to pay for overtime to make up for it.

Again, there was every attempt to be flexible until the workers forced the issue, which was working fine in other departments, but this group refused to leave well enough alone.
It sounds like the employees were exercising their rights as union employees and management didn't like it.  A tale as old as time, but at least you didn't hire anyone to beat the crap out of them.

Their negotiated contract stated that it was management's discretion whether or not to excuse lateness. It was made clear that a certain amount of lateness put deadlines in jeopardy but they pushed anyway. Other departments had no issues because they were late infrequently enough that excusing it didn't put deadlines in jeopardy.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Scott5114

If an employee being late less than 10 minutes put deadlines in jeopardy, management failed to set deadlines correctly.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 23, 2022, 01:24:06 PM
If an employee being late less than 10 minutes put deadlines in jeopardy, management failed to set deadlines correctly.

I generally agree.  But not all deadlines are set by the company you're actually working for.  I have a good friend who writes safety reports for Textron Aviation, and his deadlines are often determined by the government rather than Textron.

And ten minutes late every day can add up.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: kphoger on November 23, 2022, 01:26:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 23, 2022, 01:24:06 PM
If an employee being late less than 10 minutes put deadlines in jeopardy, management failed to set deadlines correctly.

I generally agree.  But not all deadlines are set by the company you're actually working for.  I have a good friend who writes safety reports for Textron Aviation, and his deadlines are often determined by the government rather than Textron.

And ten minutes late every day can add up.

One person being ten minutes late one time doesn't put a deadline in jeopardy.

But as little as 7 minutes every day for a quarter adds up to an entire day. And yes, customers set deadlines and customers pay for a certain number of staff.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

CNGL-Leudimin

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. As I said, I'm working like any other regular day (no holiday here). I know Big Rig Steve is going live later today, meaning he is working Thanksgiving. He didn't last year as he was on a 34 hour restart.
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

jeffandnicole

And one reason why I won't be working on a holiday this year...I decided to take a year off from my plowing gig. After doing it for 20 years, decided I'll rather spend my nights in bed while it's snowing out instead of working the roads.

ZLoth

I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Rothman

Quote
But as little as 7 minutes every day for a quarter adds up to an entire day.

The horror.

I mean, yes, there are rules, but then there's being mercurial or draconian for little more reason than the rule itself.  Again, I guess I find this hyperfocus on the clock clouding out other management approaches to maximize productivity and even causing a decrease in such.

I tend to view myself as a pretty average manager, which makes me totally amazed at cases of absolute managerial incompetence (thinking about much, much more severe cases than losing a department over time clock rules spats).  Saw one manager follow the what-not-to-do examples in the supervisory textbook over a few years -- he had a huge problem trusting staff, tried to do everything himself, screwed everything up since he didn't know what he was doing, and the organization is still hurting from the subsequent turnover (200% now) and loss of experience and knowledge. 

I've also witnessed the slow disintegration of a large engineering group due to a manager that doesn't respect the fact that you can only squeeze so much out of employees and seems blind to the individual capabilities of his staff.  Instead of managing expectations of his own management, given that he now only has a third of the engineers to do the work (due to market conditions and the total collapse of morale in his group), he burned out his staff.  When his star players raised concerns, they were met with indifference and most have bolted out now.  Productivity has collapsed and what work is done is error-riddled.  Another example of "You're here to work and do what you're told no matter how many hours..." overpowering the need to actually produce products for clients.

Then again, if I'm average, there is a lot of room for a lot poorer performance...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kkt

There's a lot of other things holding back performance besides being 7 minutes late.  Are there processes that have outlived their usefulness?  Taking a 20 minute smoke break every hour?  Taking time while a computer runs a long process or prints something out as time to kick back instead of doing something else useful?  If employees are motivated you should see their productivity... or rethink your performance metrics.

Max Rockatansky

People don't work like machines and certainly aren't ever going to work 100% efficiently no matter how motivated they are.

tdindy88

This makes me thankful for my place of employment. They have a five-minute grace period after the scheduled time to start where you can clock in with no problem (as long as you don't do it more than 4 times a month.)  And even with that the manager can always mess with the time clock to adjust things for you as long as you inform him ahead of time. Hell this week alone the manager allowed two people to come in a half-hour later than normal (they had been stuck in traffic due to a 19-month-and-counting construction project) with no problem, only asking that they make up the half hour at the end of their shift (only so they could get their full 8 hours and not be screwed over on pay.) And we get holidays off to boot. The management ain't perfect and do have their problems but at least they don't get anal about this sort of stuff. Something to be grateful for this holiday.

cjk374

For the 48th year in a row, I am not working on turkey day.

Happy Thanksgiving y'all!
Runnin' roads and polishin' rails.



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