AARoads Forum

Talk of bad smelling businesses, and dying shopping malls on the Off-Topic board leaves me with yet another topic that could tie into these.

What are some businesses that you're, for lack of a better term, amazed are still around? 

A few for me that I'm surprised are still in business.

-Arcades.  Theses certainly are dying, but when I see one it amazes me it's still open in an age of great home consoles, and easy availability of games on the cloud, or even on one's phone.

- Sears.  I GUESS appliance sales keep them alive, but from a clothing and other department store item standpoint, I'm amazed they're still around.

And last, but not least, I'm amazed Radio Shack is still around.  Is there that much of a market for radio controlled cars and off brand batteries?  Reminds me of this great article from The Onion.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/even-ceo-cant-figure-out-how-radioshack-still-in-b,2190/

Radio Shack was just delisted from the stock exchange.  Don't look for them to be around too much longer: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/hopes-radioshack-revival-fade-stock-delisted-28703886

Radio Shack used to sell electrical and electronic parts, to people who used to assemble and repair electrical things.

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 01:24:51 PM
Radio Shack used to sell electrical and electronic parts, to people who used to assemble and repair electrical things.

Radio Shack now sells things that you can get other places at a higher price than you would pay at those other places.

Quote from: spooky on February 04, 2015, 01:25:59 PM

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 01:24:51 PM
Radio Shack used to sell electrical and electronic parts, to people who used to assemble and repair electrical things.

Radio Shack now sells things that you can get other places at a higher price than you would pay at those other places.

Yep.  With customer service that doesn't know where anything is, or what it's for.

FYE, the high-priced music/movie store.

Best Buy.  They're not great, but they're relatively healthy considering people had them written off for dead a number of years ago.

Kmart.  High Priced.  Zero employees.  I've never walked into stores elsewhere and see every checkout lane closed.   I think the only thing keeping them afloat is sales of Sears' appliances!

Hallmark.  Although I think they're secretly a Yankee Candle Shop, which also sells Grandma's Arts & Crafts.

Friendly's.  I now set aside a week of vacation time if I want to order dinner there.

McDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.  And gosh-forbid their stock goes down, or their sales are less than forecasted.  If I had a business where I only sold $2 Billion of stuff rather than $2.001 Billion of stuff, I don't think I would worry about going out of business anytime soon.

QuoteMcDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.  And gosh-forbid their stock goes down, or their sales are less than forecasted.  If I had a business where I only sold $2 Billion of stuff rather than $2.001 Billion of stuff, I don't think I would worry about going out of business anytime soon.

I think the biggest thing that's saved McDonalds has been their McCafe.  It's basically a cheaper alternative to Starbucks, and actually, IMO, have better coffee.  Most of the AM drive thru crowd I see at a nearby McDonalds are getting just coffee, no food.

Thinking of two businesses I'm surprised are still around: http://www.times-news.com/news/staples-buying-office-depot-for-billion-to-keep-pace-with/article_aeb50a18-ac9b-11e4-8cc5-c735f8364d2f.html

QuoteThinking of two businesses I'm surprised are still around: http://www.times-news.com/news/staples-buying-office-depot-for-billion-to-keep-pace-with/article_aeb50a18-ac9b-11e4-8cc5-c735f8364d2f.html

I think they're still viable business models, but don't really need all the space that they encompass.

I've had my company for about 10 years now, and myself or any of my employees have yet to walk into an actual location.  We always opt for delivery.  They could easily close and downsize stores and focus more on being an online retailer.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:09:46 PM-Arcades.  Theses certainly are dying, but when I see one it amazes me it's still open in an age of great home consoles, and easy availability of games on the cloud, or even on one's phone.

You are aware that most go to arcades as a hang-out place first, games (as a means of something to do) second?

Heck, Dave & Busters (http://www.daveandbusters.com/default.aspx) is kind of like an arcade casino for kids.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:09:46 PM- Sears.  I GUESS appliance sales keep them alive, but from a clothing and other department store item standpoint, I'm amazed they're still around.

Some still use them for automotive needs and tools.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:50:49 PM

QuoteThinking of two businesses I'm surprised are still around: http://www.times-news.com/news/staples-buying-office-depot-for-billion-to-keep-pace-with/article_aeb50a18-ac9b-11e4-8cc5-c735f8364d2f.html

I think they're still viable business models, but don't really need all the space that they encompass.

I've had my company for about 10 years now, and myself or any of my employees have yet to walk into an actual location.  We always opt for delivery.  They could easily close and downsize stores and focus more on being an online retailer.

The article missed one huge point.  Actually, they didn't miss it, they simply got it wrong:  "...putting up a front of 4,000 stores to hold off encroachments..."

Um, no. While the 2 companies currently have about 4,000 stores in total, you can bet that of locations close to each other, one of them will close.  Even if the merged company (if the merger is approved) decides to keep the existing names on their stores, they're not going to compete against themselves when there's additional competitors next to them or just across the street.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 04, 2015, 01:56:22 PM

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:09:46 PM-Arcades.  Theses certainly are dying, but when I see one it amazes me it's still open in an age of great home consoles, and easy availability of games on the cloud, or even on one's phone.

You are aware that most go to arcades as a hang-out place first, games (as a means of something to do) second?

As long as they pop enough quarters in the machines for the owner to pay rent and payroll, all is good.

This may be un-PC, but I wonder if there is a racial divide on the perception of McDonald's. White people are always talking about them being in decline, but whenever I go into a McDonald's (I never use the drive-thru), there are always a decent number of people inside and almost all of them are either black (the majority) or some other minority group. Based on my entirely unscientific observation, McDonald's appears to be doing quite well with people who aren't white. I think plenty of white people go there too but use the drive-thru. It's just trendy these days to bash McDonald's.

As far as businesses that I'm surprised are still around, I agree on K-Mart because I would have thought places like Wal-Mart and Kohl's and Bed Bath & Beyond would have put them out of business.

Another I'd list is JC Penney. There are a couple of them around here (including the one the Prince and Princess of Wales visited in the 1980s), but it seems like few people go there and they don't carry anything you couldn't find elsewhere. They also expanded quickly in the 1990s and then just as quickly contracted (as I noted in the shopping malls thread, they opened several stores in former Woodward & Lothrop locations and none of them made it, probably because they are perceived as a lower-tier retailer than Woodies was).

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 01:30:37 PM

Quote from: spooky on February 04, 2015, 01:25:59 PM

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 01:24:51 PM
Radio Shack used to sell electrical and electronic parts, to people who used to assemble and repair electrical things.

Radio Shack now sells things that you can get other places at a higher price than you would pay at those other places.

Yep.  With customer service that doesn't know where anything is, or what it's for.

"You've Got Questions...We've Got Batteries."

Reminds me of the apocryphal "I don't know how Nixon won–I don't know a single person who voted for him"  quote.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 01:33:54 PM
McDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.

McDonald's revenues are declining, but in the year that just ended, the company still managed a profit of $4.7 billion out of sales of $27 billion. Walmart, loathsome though it may be, took in nearly half a trillion in annual sales with a profit of about $16 billion. Any of these companies, unless they're being operated as the hobby of an eccentric multi-billionaire, will cease to exist in the face of continued operating losses, evaporated cash reserves, and denied access to credit.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 04, 2015, 02:29:16 PM
This may be un-PC, but I wonder if there is a racial divide on the perception of McDonald's.

Judging by the few ads I've seen recently, it appears that McDonald's has more or less ceded the middle-class suburban family demographic which ostensibly was the cornerstone of their customer base for decades. Today, if those people are going to burger joints at all, they're probably more expensive places that focus on fresh, organic, or local ingredients–places like Five Guys, Smashburger, or The Counter. But more likely, they're going to anti-burger quick service places like Panera or Chipotle.

McDonald's does seem to have a half-hearted campaign (What We're Made Of) to win back some of those people, but most of the McDonald's ads I've seen seem to be targeting a young "urban"  demographic on the basis of price.

I liked the recent ad which shows McDonalds acknowledging, honoring and supporting various events.   Usually ads show their place of business in its most brightest moments: Happy Employees.  Spotless Store.  Sharp Colors. 

You don't see ads where the marquee is off center with letters spaced unevenly.  Signs blown out from storms.  Advertising spaced used to wish someone a happy birthday.  Give McDonalds some credit for going out of the box on that commercial.

(Note: I looked up the commercial on Google to re-view it before writing this comment.  I think the entire first page of Google was made up of stories questioning or criticizing the ad.)

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:09:46 PM

- Sears.  I GUESS appliance sales keep them alive, but from a clothing and other department store item standpoint, I'm amazed they're still around.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I admit to shopping there, but I dont like their atmosphere. Years ago, they would always pressure you to go buy this or that at a particular area of the store, taking to the PA system to make an announcement. I think the PA was playing an annoying Sears employee voice more than the dull music they have. I tend to shop at the Bay since I'm in Canada, but if Macy's were up here, I'd go there instead of Sears. I dont think the quality or prices are any better IMO.

EDIT: phone autocorrect  :banghead:

The Sears nearest to us has a pretty busy auto repair center. Aside from that, they seem to do quite well selling appliances, Craftsman tools (I own some of them, it's quality stuff), yard care stuff like mowers, "small electrics" like vacuum cleaners, and TVs. We got our laundry machine from that Sears and were quite satisfied with the service and the price.

Again an un-PC comment, but the clothing department seems to be popular with the Latin American community. My brother used to work at that store as the head of loss prevention and confirms that demographic as a major source of clothing sales (and, unfortunately, shoplifting), far more sales than you might expect. I would not be surprised if part of this is due to many Sears stores being located in places easily served by bus lines. Around here, members of the Latin American community are very heavy users of suburban bus transit.

K-Mart. The shelves at my local store are half empty, the flooring cracked, the ceiling leaking - and yet they still remain in business.

QuoteK-Mart. The shelves at my local store are half empty, the flooring cracked, the ceiling leaking - and yet they still remain in business.

I wasn't even aware the chain was still in business until I recently drove by one in Anaheim.

I thought they went bankrupt some years ago, but looks like they re-emerged only to be on life support, from what it sounds like.

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 01:24:51 PMRadio Shack used to sell electrical and electronic parts, to people who used to assemble and repair electrical things.

To an extent it still does, but its electrical component merchandise is really convenient only as a "quick grab" for people who have already bought the bulk of what they need elsewhere and just need a few odds and ends without having to turn a general discounter upside down or wait for an Amazon delivery.  In December I had to repair a damaged connector for the transmission temperature sensor in my car, and the only useful parts I bought for that project at RadioShack were 1/4-watt resistors (for use as connector probes) and a heat-shrink tubing assortment.  The rest of what I needed--replacement sensor, wire cutter-stripper, 200 W soldering gun, Kester No. 44 soldering flux, multimeter, and heat gun--came from other sources or was already in hand.

And quite a lot of what RadioShack does sell is grossly overpriced.  I bought a multimeter from them for $20 and discovered it required special batteries and the case was so badly designed I would have had to pry it open with a screwdriver whenever I wanted to use the meter.  I took it back for a refund and later discovered Walmart was selling a much better multimeter (Innova 3320, uses two AA alkaline batteries) for around $18 (online for in-store pickup; shelf price was about $26).

I had originally been interested in the RadioShack multimeter because it was the budget alternative to buying a set of needle probes for $20 (the only multimeter I had at the time was an ancient Sunpro engine analyzer, with alligator clips only, and I realized needle probes would be better for certain jobs like checking resistances across male pin connectors).  With a proper multimeter in hand now (the Sunpro has no ammeter function, for example, but the Innova has an unfused input rated for up to 10 V DC), I really don't need to shop for needle probes anymore, but I'd think those could be found on Amazon for less than $5.  Of course, there's the wait for delivery if you don't have Amazon Plus and are looking to get a project out of the way . . .

Frankly, I just find it convenient to be able to walk to the Radio Shack for those annoying button-style batteries. If they close, I'll find some other source, but for now, why bother with ordering online and the like when I can get what I need within half a mile of home?

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 04:24:59 PM

QuoteK-Mart. The shelves at my local store are half empty, the flooring cracked, the ceiling leaking - and yet they still remain in business.

I wasn't even aware the chain was still in business until I recently drove by one in Anaheim.

I thought they went bankrupt some years ago, but looks like they re-emerged only to be on life support, from what it sounds like.

K-mart & Sears have been owned by the same corporation (Sears Holdings Corporation) since 2005.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 04, 2015, 05:54:34 PM
]K-mart & Sears have been owned by the same corporation (Sears Holdings Corporation) since 2005.

The drowning, clinging to each other for help because nothing that floats would have anything to do with either of them.

Newspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.  And I'm talking about as a whole, since there are several examples of papers that have gone out of business.  Maybe because their main audience is people over the age of 70 that shy away from the internet.  Lord knows they've gotten rid of editors, photographers, reporters, spellcheckers, punctuation checkers, making sure the story on the front page actually continues on the page it's supposed to continue on checkers, and fact checkers.

I bought a newspaper on Sunday for the first time since probably Thanksgiving, mostly due to the fact that I was going to be sitting around for 8 hours without the ability to watch the Superbowl (at least I could listen to it on the radio), and didn't want to use up all the data on my cell phone as I wouldn't have Wifi access either.

I remember back a few decades ago when some papers used to hold surveys to determine which comics to keep and get rid of.  Back then, the survey would return a good mix of results, and the result was a majority of comics appealed to a majority of readers.  Today, papers that hold these surveys get results very skewed to the older population, such as the Born Loser, Peanuts, and other comics that this age group grew up with.  More current, 'edgy' comics like Pearls before Swine generally don't appeal to these oldtimers.

As the population ages, and today's younger elderly remain computer-competent, newspapers will no longer have any audience to support them. 

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 04, 2015, 02:29:16 PM
It's just trendy these days to bash McDonald's.

I think that's what it is- but in reality McDonald's still serves a very important purpose that will keep them from going out of business. If you need cheap, very consistent, fast, filling food, McDonald's is still the very best. The food may not be great, but it is what it is and it's remarkably consistent from location to location, and it comes at a very reasonable price. Does that make McDonald's a place I want to go for lunch everyday? No. But in a pinch if I'm in a hurry and need food that doesn't need to be great but that I can trust to be "good enough" and I need to count on a quick drive-thru, McDonald's comes through for me every time.

Just yesterday, I was up in Glasgow Montana and was running a bit behind for a meeting and knew I would need to eat. Glasgow has a great fast taco place, and I'd have eaten there, but the drive thru is slow as molasses. It also has a Dairy Queen, but Dairy Queen is hilariously inconsistent from restaurant to restaurant. I went to McDonald's because I knew I could get in and out fast and get a filling meal at a low price.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 04, 2015, 05:43:22 PMFrankly, I just find it convenient to be able to walk to the Radio Shack for those annoying button-style batteries. If they close, I'll find some other source, but for now, why bother with ordering online and the like when I can get what I need within half a mile of home?

I think their best remaining business model, short of liquidation, is to close all their stores and sell the sort of stuff people go to RadioShack for--such as batteries, circuit elements, soldering supplies, etc.--from automated kiosks.

Pizza Hut. Dine in service is lousy almost everywhere, except for the location where I'm sitting right now. The only reason they still have my business at all is their apparent monopoly on Stuffed Crust. Is that patented or something?

Quote from: vtk on February 04, 2015, 08:50:38 PM
Pizza Hut. Dine in service is lousy almost everywhere, except for the location where I'm sitting right now. The only reason they still have my business at all is their apparent monopoly on Stuffed Crust. Is that patented or something?

I've seen stuffed crust pizza in the frozen food section of the grocery store...DiGiorno maybe?

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 07:05:59 PM
Newspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.  And I'm talking about as a whole, since there are several examples of papers that have gone out of business.  Maybe because their main audience is people over the age of 70 that shy away from the internet.  Lord knows they've gotten rid of editors, photographers, reporters, spellcheckers, punctuation checkers, making sure the story on the front page actually continues on the page it's supposed to continue on checkers, and fact checkers.

I bought a newspaper on Sunday for the first time since probably Thanksgiving, mostly due to the fact that I was going to be sitting around for 8 hours without the ability to watch the Superbowl (at least I could listen to it on the radio), and didn't want to use up all the data on my cell phone as I wouldn't have Wifi access either.

I remember back a few decades ago when some papers used to hold surveys to determine which comics to keep and get rid of.  Back then, the survey would return a good mix of results, and the result was a majority of comics appealed to a majority of readers.  Today, papers that hold these surveys get results very skewed to the older population, such as the Born Loser, Peanuts, and other comics that this age group grew up with.  More current, 'edgy' comics like Pearls before Swine generally don't appeal to these oldtimers.

As the population ages, and today's younger elderly remain computer-competent, newspapers will no longer have any audience to support them.

I don't think I've ever bought a newspaper (at least for myself). I read them if they're around, but they really have no use these days.

Strip clubs.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 07:05:59 PM
Newspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.  And I'm talking about as a whole, since there are several examples of papers that have gone out of business.  Maybe because their main audience is people over the age of 70 that shy away from the internet.  Lord knows they've gotten rid of editors, photographers, reporters, spellcheckers, punctuation checkers, making sure the story on the front page actually continues on the page it's supposed to continue on checkers, and fact checkers.

I bought a newspaper on Sunday for the first time since probably Thanksgiving, mostly due to the fact that I was going to be sitting around for 8 hours without the ability to watch the Superbowl (at least I could listen to it on the radio), and didn't want to use up all the data on my cell phone as I wouldn't have Wifi access either.

I remember back a few decades ago when some papers used to hold surveys to determine which comics to keep and get rid of.  Back then, the survey would return a good mix of results, and the result was a majority of comics appealed to a majority of readers.  Today, papers that hold these surveys get results very skewed to the older population, such as the Born Loser, Peanuts, and other comics that this age group grew up with.  More current, 'edgy' comics like Pearls before Swine generally don't appeal to these oldtimers.

As the population ages, and today's younger elderly remain computer-competent, newspapers will no longer have any audience to support them. 

It seems a shame to me because print journalism used to seem more complete, more informative, less biased than, say, television news, which already seemed sensationalized and lurid twenty and thirty years ago and has only gotten worse, IMHO. But I think print journalism is dying a slow, painful, lingering but irreversible death, for all the reasons you mentioned above.

http://www.westernstoneware.com/

Another ancient industry

Quote from: cjk374 on February 04, 2015, 08:58:04 PM

Quote from: vtk on February 04, 2015, 08:50:38 PM
Pizza Hut. Dine in service is lousy almost everywhere, except for the location where I'm sitting right now. The only reason they still have my business at all is their apparent monopoly on Stuffed Crust. Is that patented or something?

I've seen stuffed crust pizza in the frozen food section of the grocery store...DiGiorno maybe?

DiGiorno does sell a frozen stuffed crust pizza, as we had one last week. It was decent. I have no idea why other delivery joints don't offer that style.

---

We get the newspaper delivered on weekends because we prefer reading a real paper at breakfast to sitting there with iPads or the like. I occasionally buy a copy on other days, like two weeks ago when I was quoted in an article about the HO/T lanes.

How about Wholesaling -the ultimate middleman industry . I know Amazon is moving in in a big way It filled a huge niche of moving goods to the right retail source. Is it needed now or not?

Quote from: dfwmapper on February 04, 2015, 09:55:25 PM
Strip clubs.

Really?  I thought they have been around since, well, the invention of clothes.  I hadn't noticed any of the established strip clubs in Seattle closing.

On the same note as strip clubs, what about adult stores?

One would think if you had the desire to buy a nudie mag (unlikely, given the Internet), trashy lingerie, or sex toys the anonymity of shopping online would be much preferred.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:09:46 PM
- Sears.  I GUESS appliance sales keep them alive, but from a clothing and other department store item standpoint, I'm amazed they're still around.

Yeah, I went into one looking for bed linens and other home goods, and the employees kept telling me that, other than the one token item per category that's out on the sales floor, they don't really carry that sort of item. I was like, "You're Sears; your whole point is that you carry everything!" (Their whole point used to be that they carry everything by catalog, but that's Amazon now, so Sears is relegated to its brick-and-mortar function, which they've evidently abandoned.)

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 04, 2015, 01:56:22 PM
Heck, Dave & Busters (http://www.daveandbusters.com/default.aspx) is kind of like an arcade casino for kids.

Which is ironic, since their business model is to be a kids'-style arcade for adults.

---

Radio Shack: The only reason I've ever gone in is for little electrical odds-and-ends, things that go on the ends of wires, and so forth. My demand for that product is still as great as it ever was; I don't see why they should be suffering.

J. C. Penney: Actually, they seem to be thriving on being the type of store that everyone thought was dying off just when everyone wished they weren't dying off. They have a reputation for actually carrying a useful selection of clothing in-store, and they've also famously revitalized their print catalog. They may actually be in decent shape.

Quote from: empirestate on February 05, 2015, 01:10:52 AM
Radio Shack: The only reason I've ever gone in is for little electrical odds-and-ends, things that go on the ends of wires, and so forth. My demand for that product is still as great as it ever was; I don't see why they should be suffering.

Steve Anderson, who is a roadgeek but also has a hobby as a research analyst (or is it the other way around?), posted an article recently about Radio Shack.  One great point in the article is that Radio Shack should be thriving nowadays because the demand for their traditional products is very high, as there are a lot of do-it-yourselfers out there playing with electronics and such.  Radio Shack though has no interest in employing people that care about the products they sell.  It appears their only training is on how to get the cash register to work.  If someone were to walk into the store and ask for some sort of doohickey, they will be pointed to the doohickey section (which if I remember correctly is several aisle in the back of the store), and the customer is left to find the part themselves.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2015, 12:35:50 AM
On the same note as strip clubs, what about adult stores?

One would think if you had the desire to buy a nudie mag (unlikely, given the Internet), trashy lingerie, or sex toys the anonymity of shopping online would be much preferred.

On the other hand, someone going into a bookstore or sex boutique and paying cash knows there is no record listing his name and address and linking it to the purchase. That's not the case online.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2015, 12:35:50 AM
On the same note as strip clubs, what about adult stores?

One would think if you had the desire to buy a nudie mag (unlikely, given the Internet), trashy lingerie, or sex toys the anonymity of shopping online would be much preferred.

Strip clubs are actually thriving in certain areas of the country, or at least certain cities where law enforcement is lax.  There will always be a need for non-spousal companionship and strip clubs are probably the safest bet for that.

As for adult stores, oftentimes, the people buying the trashy lingerie are the strippers of the strip clubs.  At least, that is what this one guy I work with who used to have a job at one of those stores says.  In fact, the ones I know about are more about selling lingerie and sex toys than about selling porn, either paper or video.  One other thing about adult stores is that very often, couples often go together to the store, often in a dating scenario.

Just one quick question that goes along with this discussion: Did Blockbuster Video get completely liquidated, or does it exist in some form somewhere?

Quote from: DandyDan on February 05, 2015, 08:05:04 AMJust one quick question that goes along with this discussion: Did Blockbuster Video get completely liquidated, or does it exist in some form somewhere?

They still have a Roku channel but all the retail stores where shuttered, ISTR.

Quote from: DandyDan on February 05, 2015, 08:05:04 AM

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2015, 12:35:50 AM
On the same note as strip clubs, what about adult stores?

One would think if you had the desire to buy a nudie mag (unlikely, given the Internet), trashy lingerie, or sex toys the anonymity of shopping online would be much preferred.

Strip clubs are actually thriving in certain areas of the country, or at least certain cities where law enforcement is lax.  There will always be a need for non-spousal companionship and strip clubs are probably the safest bet for that.

As for adult stores, oftentimes, the people buying the trashy lingerie are the strippers of the strip clubs.  At least, that is what this one guy I work with who used to have a job at one of those stores says.  In fact, the ones I know about are more about selling lingerie and sex toys than about selling porn, either paper or video.  One other thing about adult stores is that very often, couples often go together to the store, often in a dating scenario.

Just one quick question that goes along with this discussion: Did Blockbuster Video get completely liquidated, or does it exist in some form somewhere?

What's ironic about your post is that Blockbuster video was designed with a family atmosphere, and never stocked X-rated material.  Yet, you posted about porn and Blockbuster in the same breathe.  Good job!

Anyway, the Blockbuster name is used by Dish Network, in a fairly limited capacity.  There may be a few franchised stores with the 'Blockbuster' name on them, but I imagine they would be in rural areas where cable and online access is minimal.

One of the only remaining Blockbuster's in the U.S is in Ogden, UT. I know this because I used to go to college there (In Ogden, not the Blockbuster), apparently it's an independent franchised store as mentioned earlier. I almost want to go there simply for the nostalgia.

I can't see how K-Mart is still in business. I've never been to a K-Mart that wasn't a trash dump. Sears at the very least does have appliances.

Quote from: ajlynch91 on February 05, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I can't see how K-Mart is still in business. I've never been to a K-Mart that wasn't a trash dump. Sears at the very least does have appliances.

The K-Mart in Hillsborough closed years ago. I remember the last time I went into it how ghetto the place looked. Like, it was bad. I thought Walmart could be bad, but damn, K-Mart has it beat! A Planet Fitness is replacing the abandoned building where K-Mart used to stand. Personally, I would've preferred a bowling alley. That could be a huge boon to Hillsborough.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 04, 2015, 10:22:28 PM
DiGiorno does sell a frozen stuffed crust pizza, as we had one last week. It was decent. I have no idea why other delivery joints don't offer that style.

DiGiorno has the best frozen pizzas you can buy. They taste so good, sometimes even better than some of the pizza places around here.

Quote from: DandyDan on February 05, 2015, 08:05:04 AM
As for adult stores, ... the ones I know about are more about selling lingerie and sex toys than about selling porn, either paper or video.  One other thing about adult stores is that very often, couples often go together to the store, often in a dating scenario.

Yes.  And it seems a lot of people would prefer to closely inspect a sex toy (to the extent it can be inspected through the packaging) and the packaging itself before buying.  That's difficult to do online.

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 11:54:47 PM

Quote from: dfwmapper on February 04, 2015, 09:55:25 PM
Strip clubs.

Really?  I thought they have been around since, well, the invention of clothes.  I hadn't noticed any of the established strip clubs in Seattle closing.

RIP, the Lusty Lady

Quote from: corco on February 05, 2015, 09:49:15 AM

Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 11:54:47 PM

Quote from: dfwmapper on February 04, 2015, 09:55:25 PM
Strip clubs.

Really?  I thought they have been around since, well, the invention of clothes.  I hadn't noticed any of the established strip clubs in Seattle closing.

RIP, the Lusty Lady

Oh, you're right, I'd forgotten them.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 07:05:59 PM
Newspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.

Survived, maybe...but their old dead-trees business model is on life support.  Just about every "paper" I know of has a web site, and most of them have put up a pay wall.  Several newspapers in large cities (The New Orleans Times-Picayune and The Philadelphia Inquirer, to name two) no longer publish in print every day.  Even The New York Times now derives more revenue from online subscriptions than it does from advertising.

With computer classes being given in senior living facilities and computers coming out which are geared toward the elderly, I'd give the dead-tree newspaper about another decade before it's effectively gone.

QuoteNewspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.

I think the ONLY time I read a paper is when I'm staying in a hotel that doles out copies of USA Today.

Quote from: SidS1045 on February 05, 2015, 10:47:03 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 07:05:59 PM
Newspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.

Survived, maybe...but their old dead-trees business model is on life support.  Just about every "paper" I know of has a web site, and most of them have put up a pay wall.  Several newspapers in large cities (The New Orleans Times-Picayune and The Philadelphia Inquirer, to name two) no longer publish in print every day.  Even The New York Times now derives more revenue from online subscriptions than it does from advertising.

The Philly Inquirer is absolutely published in print every day.

Quote from: SidS1045 on February 05, 2015, 10:47:03 AMSeveral newspapers in large cities (The New Orleans Times-Picayune and The Philadelphia Inquirer, to name two) no longer publish in print every day.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 11:03:45 AMThe Philly Inquirer is absolutely published in print every day.

I concur; I know this one first hand because I have a 7-day home delivery subscription for such.

Mitsubishi automobile dealerships. I know their sales are decent in the Pacific Rim, but the've been moribund in the Americas for the past decade.

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 12:03:21 PM
Mitsubishi automobile dealerships. I know their sales are decent in the Pacific Rim, but the've been moribund in the Americas for the past decade.

They're still around in the East Coast.  At Philly's Auto Show (taking place this week); there's a Mitsubishi section in the main exhibit hall with all the other makes (except Lexus & Mercedes, which are located in a different room).

Telemarketers!  And the fact that the FCC gave them an extra hour to call your home and annoy you as it used to be a big no no to call before 9 AM.  Now they can bug you as early as 8 AM.

Quote from: Takumi on February 04, 2015, 01:32:51 PM
FYE, the high-priced music/movie store.

Buybacks recently opened up.  Who goes to the store to buy CDs & DVDs anymore?

And they opened up in a former blockbuster to boot.  I worked at Blockbuster 2007-2008 and was surprised they were still open then.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2015, 10:54:30 AM

QuoteNewspapers - the paper version - have somehow survived.

I think the ONLY time I read a paper is when I'm staying in a hotel that doles out copies of USA Today.

Print newspapers, particularly the tabloid variety, are still big in NYC, where they're much easier to read on a subway than anything requiring the Internet.

How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 12:15:14 PM

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 12:03:21 PM
Mitsubishi automobile dealerships. I know their sales are decent in the Pacific Rim, but the've been moribund in the Americas for the past decade.

They're still around in the East Coast.  At Philly's Auto Show (taking place this week); there's a Mitsubishi section in the main exhibit hall with all the other makes (except Lexus & Mercedes, which are located in a different room).

Speaking of cars, I'm amazed that Lincoln dealerships are still in operation today. The death of Mercury might've put the writing on the wall, but it's comforting to see that Ford is trying to keep its luxury division alive for as long as it can, even with it being a distant second to GM's more internationally-minded Cadillac marque in domestic luxury sales.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

It's not the tellers, it's the bank officers.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Why, to replenish our stock of $2 bills, of course!

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Where I live, there are several branches of Wells Fargo Bank.  What surprises me are the sheer number of teller windows inside of the branches and number of drive-thru window lanes they have.  For example, one Wells Fargo has no less than 10 drive-thru lanes, all are "open" during business hours, and yet you see maybe one or two cars at any given time.  Why have all of those windows/lanes if they are not used or staffed?   And in the case of the drive-thrus, you may have 10 lanes, but you still only have one or two tellers taking customers in the order they receive the "tubes".  The money they could save by getting rid of those extra power-using tubes and lights.

Oh, and minor rant.  Why do you put an ATM in the same lane as an active drive-up teller lane???  I hate having to wait 5+ minutes for the person in front of me to finish gabbing with the teller about non-banking issues when I just need to grab a quick $20 from the machine.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

What's even weirder is that despite all of the above; many banks have been adding branch offices this past decade and I'm not just referring to stand-alone ATMs.

Quote from: Henry on February 05, 2015, 12:55:31 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 12:15:14 PM

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 12:03:21 PM
Mitsubishi automobile dealerships. I know their sales are decent in the Pacific Rim, but the've been moribund in the Americas for the past decade.

They're still around in the East Coast.  At Philly's Auto Show (taking place this week); there's a Mitsubishi section in the main exhibit hall with all the other makes (except Lexus & Mercedes, which are located in a different room).

Speaking of cars, I'm amazed that Lincoln dealerships are still in operation today. The death of Mercury might've put the writing on the wall, but it's comforting to see that Ford is trying to keep its luxury division alive for as long as it can, even with it being a distant second to GM's more internationally-minded Cadillac marque in domestic luxury sales.

For better - for worse, one of the first things that happened when Mercury died was that the majority of Lincoln-Mercury dealers consolidated/merged with nearby Ford dealers.  The downside of such meant that every Lincoln model now had a direct Ford model competiting with it under the same roof.

Quote from: Henry on February 05, 2015, 12:55:31 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 12:15:14 PM

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 12:03:21 PM
Mitsubishi automobile dealerships. I know their sales are decent in the Pacific Rim, but the've been moribund in the Americas for the past decade.

They're still around in the East Coast.  At Philly's Auto Show (taking place this week); there's a Mitsubishi section in the main exhibit hall with all the other makes (except Lexus & Mercedes, which are located in a different room).

Speaking of cars, I'm amazed that Lincoln dealerships are still in operation today. The death of Mercury might've put the writing on the wall, but it's comforting to see that Ford is trying to keep its luxury division alive for as long as it can, even with it being a distant second to GM's more internationally-minded Cadillac marque in domestic luxury sales.

Many Lincoln dealers aligned themselves to Ford stores as Mercury became defunct. Standalone Lincoln dealerships are really slow places, although some existing Mercury buyers still service their vehicles at those spots. In places with a mix of forty-somethings to (many) retirees, they still thrive on their own. Those Grand Marquis' were bread-and-butter for those locations, but no more.

Still not as slow as the Mitsu dealers I occasionally go to!

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

What do "all-electronic" people do when they need a cashier's check or certified check? (I needed one or the other last year for the final payment on a loan, for example.)

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Because tellers are not all one goes to a bank for.  There's a lot of paperwork that's impractical to do without sitting down with a banker.  I wish there weren't, but there is.  And what of safe deposit boxes?

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 05, 2015, 01:12:21 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

What do "all-electronic" people do when they need a cashier's check or certified check? (I needed one or the other last year for the final payment on a loan, for example.)

I have a credit union, a regular bank, and an "all-electronic" bank through Capital One 360.  I can go on their site and "fill out" the check online and they'll mail it I think the next day, they say allow 5 business days for receipt.  I believe if it isn't cashed within 90 days the funds are returned to my account, but I haven't encountered that.  It's nice to have both because there are certainly inherent advantages to a physical branch, but I can move the money back and forth between accounts, especially my brokerage who is also owned by Capital One, with relative ease.  I do also have a physical checkbook through them.

Can we make the same argument of the post office that we make for banks?

You can print labels, schedule pickups, print postage.

What purpose does the post office really serve?

As far as I am concerned, Radio Shack took a big shit when they started charging for print catalogs.

Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 05, 2015, 01:29:08 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 05, 2015, 01:12:21 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

What do "all-electronic" people do when they need a cashier's check or certified check? (I needed one or the other last year for the final payment on a loan, for example.)

I have a credit union, a regular bank, and an "all-electronic" bank through Capital One 360.  I can go on their site and "fill out" the check online and they'll mail it I think the next day, they say allow 5 business days for receipt.  I believe if it isn't cashed within 90 days the funds are returned to my account, but I haven't encountered that.  It's nice to have both because there are certainly inherent advantages to a physical branch, but I can move the money back and forth between accounts, especially my brokerage who is also owned by Capital One, with relative ease.  I do also have a physical checkbook through them.

That doesn't answer the question. I have online banking as well, but when, for example, I made the final payment on my second mortgage, the lender explicitly said a payment from online banking was not acceptable–the final payment had to be by cashier's check, certified check, or wire transfer. (I chose cashier's check because the other two carried fees.) As I said before, how do you do that sort of thing if you don't have an actual bank branch to visit?

(I do most of my banking electronically, though I don't always use mobile check deposit. Some checks exceed the limit. I also don't use it if the handwriting on the check is hard to read. I figure if I stick it in the ATM, they'll have it and can review it right away if there's an issue, whereas if I use mobile deposit they might contact me and ask me to stick it in an ATM.)

I'm amazed Radio Shack made is this far as well.  I had friends who worked there, they treated the staff miserably, there were hardly any customers, and it was $11 for something you could easily get for $5 elsewhere.  As a kid in the 90s, I loved going in Radio Shack with all the neat hobby stuff and RC toys.  They tried the push for cell phones, but I don't know anyone who ever bought them there, and it was annoying (I realize the poor staff was required to hit I think 1 in 20 sales to be a cell phone contract) to be asked about your cell phone provider and contract status every time you went there.  The only good thing I can say about RSH in recent times is their clearances, at least locally, have been killer.  Will probably go in for nostalgia/see if anything is worth picking up at bargain prices.

And I would have said SkyMall, but I see that has declared bankruptcy.  Oh look, $69 for something I can get on Amazon for $29, and also, it's not even like I can pick it up at the airport or anything.  The catalogs were fun to read, though.  (Airport shopping also is of interest to me, since the general strategy is to take as little luggage with you as possible, and anything you buy at the airport would add to that, not to mention the usual captive-audience price premium.  I do get this to a certain degree, souvenirs, food, necessities, etc.)

Quote from: thenetwork on February 05, 2015, 01:05:28 PM
Oh, and minor rant.  Why do you put an ATM in the same lane as an active drive-up teller lane???  I hate having to wait 5+ minutes for the person in front of me to finish gabbing with the teller about non-banking issues when I just need to grab a quick $20 from the machine.

Because you're too lazy to park and walk over to the ATM.

QuoteBanks

I consider myself relatively techie, but just the other day I finally used my phone to deposit a check.  As my wife owns a business she gets several checks from customers.  I can easily deposit them via phone, but I choose to go to the bank anyway.  At least at my bank, I get a few lollipops everytime I go! lol  And I use one of the banks that have 7 day branch banking, which is a nice thing, even though I rarely go on the weekends.  But, in those rare instances when I have to access the safety deposit box, I don't have to time my entire life around the few hours the bank is open and I'm not at work...I can easily go during the day Saturday or Sunday.

About those checks: I'm still surprised people use them.  It was only the past year or two where there was a noticeable decline in checks at my wife's business, which is a small business.  Most of those people simply use credit/debit cards instead.  Why it took them so long to convert, I have no idea.

QuotePaychecks

And on the same subject, my employer now requires everyone to get their regular pay via direct deposit, and reviewing your paystub can only be done via the internet.  If they don't have a banking account (or don't want direct deposit), then they get their funds loaded on a card. 

Yet, my overtime checks are only on traditional paper.  I don't have the option to get the deposited directly.  Go figure.

QuotePost Offices

Internet shopping was going to be the killer of the Post Office.  Internet shopping is what is keeping the post office alive.  All those purchases have to be sent somehow.  While FedEx (which has a partnership with the USPS) and UPS handle a lot of those deliveries, the USPS has its share of shipments as well.

Rarely a day goes by when I don't get mail.  Much of it is ads or junk though.  I only mail one payment a month, for the mortgage payment, so I rarely need stamps.

People still use those PO Boxes too.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 02:13:19 PMAbout those checks: I'm still surprised people use them.  It was only the past year or two where there was a noticeable decline in checks at my wife's business, which is a small business.  Most of those people simply use credit/debit cards instead.  Why it took them so long to convert, I have no idea.

A similar discussion/debate regarding paper checks was made in another thread several months ago and the general concessus was that there are some scenarios where a paper check is still required; paying one's rent or mortgage was one of them.  Where I live, a paper check is required as a means of payment; no alternatives nor substitutions.

Additionally, if one contributes (monetarily) to their place of worship; many places only accept either cash or (paper) check, nothing else.

While many businesses (like your wife's) & customers have gone mostly paperless; not all of them have and some (for legal/paper trail reasons) may never go all electronic.

Given the recent hackings that have taken place at several store chains (Target, etc.); using a paper check might be a safer way to purchase, outside of cash.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 05, 2015, 01:12:21 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

What do "all-electronic" people do when they need a cashier's check or certified check? (I needed one or the other last year for the final payment on a loan, for example.)

I was actually being sarcastic, as too much is done on line, electronically, and everything going to self serve. It makes you wonder why we stayed this far from becoming completely automated.

Like you said, and everyone else here, that certain things we need cannot be replaced still.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 02:38:14 PM
....

Additionally, if one contributes (monetarily) to their place of worship; many places only accept either cash or (paper) check, nothing else.

....

Another good reason for using a check in this scenario is that if you are not registered at the church, and so do not receive the envelopes for the offering, or if you choose not to use the envelopes for some other reason, contributing by check provides you with a record (the image of the cancelled check that's included with your bank statement) that you can use if needed for tax-deduction purposes.

Funny church got mentioned...some people call them a business (that does not have to pay taxes)...and I'm surprised that they are doing as well as they are. I am surprised that so many people still attend church regularly.

I find churches, and their behavior, rather offputting. They seem rather archaic to me. Why go if nobody's forcing you to? Church is like a school where you take the same class over and over, even though you fully grasp the material and don't need to go anymore.

I do, however, make a serious effort to live my life my Christian principles.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 02:38:14 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 02:13:19 PMAbout those checks: I'm still surprised people use them.  It was only the past year or two where there was a noticeable decline in checks at my wife's business, which is a small business.  Most of those people simply use credit/debit cards instead.  Why it took them so long to convert, I have no idea.

Given the recent hackings that have taken place at several store chains (Target, etc.); using a paper check might be a safer way to purchase, outside of cash.

I've had bank fraud and credit card fraud, and the credit card companies seem to be far easier to deal with, and will kindly correct the error when an unauthorized charge/withdrawal appears in your statement. Getting a bank to admit their fault or stopping a check on your account is akin to testifying in front of Congress.

While there's many places that do not accept large credit card transactions, and therefore, a personal check is the only reasonable immediate option, I am loathe to use them at a store where other personal info is tacked onto the physical check itself (address, phone, driver's license number). Never mind the bank account number is plainly visible...no thanks.

Quote from: Brian556 on February 05, 2015, 04:00:07 PM
Funny church got mentioned...some people call them a business (that does not have to pay taxes)...

Believe me, While churches and other places of worship do not pay taxes; just not the same exact taxes (rates) that other businesses pay. its employees do. I know this because I'm friends with a church treasurer.

The only reason I was mentioning churches/places of worship in this thread was because of it's one well-known example where paper checks are regularly used.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 04:34:14 PMI've had bank fraud and credit card fraud, and the credit card companies seem to be far easier to deal with, and will kindly correct the error when an unauthorized charge/withdrawal appears in your statement. Getting a bank to admit their fault or stopping a check on your account is akin to testifying in front of Congress.

Do keep in mind that the fore-mentioned hackings impacted debit cards (which many use en lieu of checks) as well as credit cards.  One still needs to notify their bank for debit card issues or fraud.

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 04:34:14 PMWhile there's many places that do not accept large credit card transactions, and therefore, a personal check is the only reasonable immediate option, I am loathe to use them at a store where other personal info is tacked onto the physical check itself (address, phone, driver's license number). Never mind the bank account number is plainly visible...no thanks.

The only personal info. printed on my checks are my name and address.

Regarding your account number on your check being visible.  How is that any different than having one's credit card account number visible (& the supplemental 3-digit code on the back)?  Not to mention that some places still require one to show their driver's license (& give their phone number) when making a credit card purchase... especially one of a large dollar amount.

And if one's debit card (like a credit card, these feature a MasterCard or VISA logo and can be used without using a PIN number) winds up in the wrong hands; their checking account can be cleaned out with little or no warning.

Quote from: Brian556 on February 05, 2015, 04:00:07 PM
Funny church got mentioned...some people call them a business (that does not have to pay taxes)...and I'm surprised that they are doing as well as they are. I am surprised that so many people still attend church regularly.

I find churches, and their behavior, rather offputting. They seem rather archaic to me. Why go if nobody's forcing you to? Church is like a school where you take the same class over and over, even though you fully grasp the material and don't need to go anymore.

I do, however, make a serious effort to live my life my Christian principles.

I know in another thread that you said you eschew social interaction, so this may not be apparent to you, but houses of worship are centers of communities even to this day.  Especially in more ethnically-aligned houses of worship, they can be the most important central institution in not just religious life, but in social services, culture, education, and the like.  And in other cases, people go because they like to see people they know there.  I don't attend church anymore myself without a special reason to do so, but I do miss this aspect of it.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 04:45:18 PM

Quote from: Brian556 on February 05, 2015, 04:00:07 PM
Funny church got mentioned...some people call them a business (that does not have to pay taxes)...

Believe me, churches and other places of worship do pay taxes; just not the same exact taxes (rates) that other businesses pay.  I know this because I'm friends with a church treasurer.

The only reason I was mentioning churches/places of worship in this thread was because of it's one well-known example where paper checks are regularly used.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Not if the church is set up as a 501(c)(3) entity, then it's tax-free as long as they maintain the IRS standards for Tax-Exempt organizations.  My church has a 501(c)(3) established, and you better have your legal paperwork and processes documented or it isn't happening.

Spoken as one of my church's former finance deacons for several years, the writer of both the church's collections database and their operations protocols.  And if you think printing the IRS documentation for my church wasn't a pain in the ass (oh dear God, I've still got them on my PC!)...

AND...as of last month my church started accepting debit cards for collections...

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 04:45:18 PM
And if one's debit card (like a credit card, these feature a MasterCard or VISA logo and can be used without using a PIN number) winds up in the wrong hands; their checking account can be cleaned out with little or no warning.

I've shreded the debit cards the moment they're sent to my home (except when I didn't have a credit card). My current bank doesn't send them out, if you request that no debit cards be issued at all.

I avoid ATMs, as well...perhaps three ATM visits in the past ten years. I'd much rather visit a bank if I need actual cash.

Quote from: DeaconG on February 05, 2015, 05:00:44 PMNot if the church is set up as a 501(c)(3) entity, then it's tax-free as long as they maintain the IRS standards for Tax-Exempt organizations.  My church has a 501(c)(3) established, and you better have your legal paperwork and processes documented or it isn't happening.

I should have clarified a tad; the paid salaries for the pastor and other paid staff at a church are still subject to income taxes (where applicable).  So while a 501(c)(3) entity may not pay taxes (if all requirements/guidelines are met); the pastor and any paid employees do pay taxes on their salaries.

Quote from: DeaconG on February 05, 2015, 05:00:44 PMAND...as of last month my church started accepting debit cards for collections...

Per my earlier post; I mentioned that many places (of worship) only accept cash or check, I purposely and intentionally didn't state that all of them did such.

Many places, particularly smaller venues where the staff outside of a pastor & secretary are most if not all unpaid volunteers; will likely not invest in the infrastructure to support debit cards.

Quote from: formulanone on February 05, 2015, 05:21:04 PMI've shreded the debit cards the moment they're sent to my home (except when I didn't have a credit card). My current bank doesn't send them out, if you request that no debit cards be issued at all.

I avoid ATMs, as well...perhaps three ATM visits in the past ten years. I'd much rather visit a bank if I need actual cash.

To me, it sounds like you'd rather not deal with banks at all, which is fine; but I thought this thread tangent was a paper vs. plastic/electronic matter.

If you're only banking is largely doing such in person; you're either self-employed, retired, unenployed or work either 2nd/3rd-shift (guess on my part) because the original reasoning as towards why the ATM came to be in the first place was so that people (including 1st-shift workers) can get access to their money even when their bank wasn't open.  Many 1st-shift workers don't have the luxury of going to a bank during their work hours.  That's one reason right there why direct-deposit's been such a hit successwise.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 01:33:54 PM
McDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.  And gosh-forbid their stock goes down, or their sales are less than forecasted.  If I had a business where I only sold $2 Billion of stuff rather than $2.001 Billion of stuff, I don't think I would worry about going out of business anytime soon.

Go to an average Walmart on a weekend afternoon and you will see that they are still very popular. The company is still actively building and renovating it's stores, with no sign that it's near death at all.

Comment sections are full of people talking out of there ass(s).

Quote from: on_wisconsin on February 05, 2015, 05:38:26 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 01:33:54 PM
McDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.  And gosh-forbid their stock goes down, or their sales are less than forecasted.  If I had a business where I only sold $2 Billion of stuff rather than $2.001 Billion of stuff, I don't think I would worry about going out of business anytime soon.

Go to an average Walmart on a weekend afternoon and you will see that they are still very popular. The company is still actively building and renovating it's stores, with no sign that it's near death at all.

Comment sections are full of people talking out of there ass(s).

"Nobody goes there anymore–it's too crowded."

Churches are non-profit, just like the NFL

Quote from: texaskdog on February 05, 2015, 12:37:04 PM
Who goes to the store to buy CDs & DVDs anymore?

With respect to DVD/BluRay, collectors often buy disks in store because Amazon/UPS can't be trusted to deliver them without damage to either the disk, case, or slip cover (especially since Amazon uses those el cheapo bubble wrap envelopes).

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Anyone who lives in an apartment that has coin-operated laundry and doesn't use cash enough to have a stash of quarters needs to go to the bank a couple times a month to get some.

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/05/radioshack-files-for-bankruptcy/

Around here, I find Radio Shack rendered almost completely redundant by MicroCenter.  Granted, MicroCenter doesn't sell all the little doodads Radio Shack does, but Radio Shack for me was always all about cables to create unholy marriages of various devices.

The store was better run in recent years, but for much too long it was staffed by creepy dudes with poor social skills–technically knowledgeable, but off-putting to casual shoppers. 

Ditto all the remarks about inflated prices, and pushy tactics ("Need any batteries today?").  But I'm a little wistful about where I'll get a fader knob or LED without the time delay for me to come to my senses and give up on some silly scheme.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Commercial accounts. Good luck getting $250 in fives, a strap of ones, six rolls of quarters, and nine rolls of pennies out of an ATM. And it's a much more secure feeling when you deposit $1,092 directly to a teller rather than leaving it in the night drop.

(Even when I'm doing personal banking I use a human teller because I prefer using $10s and the ATM dispenses $20s.)

Quote from: empirestate on February 05, 2015, 01:03:51 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Why, to replenish our stock of $2 bills, of course!

This too. (Although now that I'm a casino cashier I tend to get my $2s from other cashiers when they have someone cash in an obscene amount of $2s for gambling money.)

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 02:13:19 PM

QuotePost Offices

Internet shopping was going to be the killer of the Post Office.  Internet shopping is what is keeping the post office alive.  All those purchases have to be sent somehow.  While FedEx (which has a partnership with the USPS) and UPS handle a lot of those deliveries, the USPS has its share of shipments as well.

Rarely a day goes by when I don't get mail.  Much of it is ads or junk though.  I only mail one payment a month, for the mortgage payment, so I rarely need stamps.

People still use those PO Boxes too.

USPS is still the gold standard for shipping as far as I'm concerned. Priority Mail is a wonderful thing–two-day shipping with tracking number, pickup at your home, $50 of free insurance, and it's still cheaper than UPS or FedEx. I use a PO box for my business, too, because it's more secure than putting my home address out there for customers to find. I don't want a crazy customer looking me up on Google Maps and coming to my house.

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 05, 2015, 10:04:30 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 02:13:19 PM

QuotePost Offices

Internet shopping was going to be the killer of the Post Office.  Internet shopping is what is keeping the post office alive.  All those purchases have to be sent somehow.  While FedEx (which has a partnership with the USPS) and UPS handle a lot of those deliveries, the USPS has its share of shipments as well.

Rarely a day goes by when I don't get mail.  Much of it is ads or junk though.  I only mail one payment a month, for the mortgage payment, so I rarely need stamps.

People still use those PO Boxes too.

USPS is still the gold standard for shipping as far as I'm concerned. Priority Mail is a wonderful thing–two-day shipping with tracking number, pickup at your home, $50 of free insurance, and it's still cheaper than UPS or FedEx. I use a PO box for my business, too, because it's more secure than putting my home address out there for customers to find. I don't want a crazy customer looking me up on Google Maps and coming to my house.

I use the UPS Store for a business mailbox for the same reason, with the added benefit of it having a regular street address instead of a PO Box address.

Quote from: on_wisconsin on February 05, 2015, 05:38:26 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 01:33:54 PM
McDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.  And gosh-forbid their stock goes down, or their sales are less than forecasted.  If I had a business where I only sold $2 Billion of stuff rather than $2.001 Billion of stuff, I don't think I would worry about going out of business anytime soon.

Go to an average Walmart on a weekend afternoon and you will see that they are still very popular. The company is still actively building and renovating it's stores, with no sign that it's near death at all.

Comment sections are full of people talking out of there ass(s).

Wow...that bit of sarcasm just flew over your head!  Of course, they are extremely popular.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 10:34:15 PM

Quote from: on_wisconsin on February 05, 2015, 05:38:26 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 04, 2015, 01:33:54 PM
McDonalds & Walmart.  No one ever eats there or shops there.  Really...Ever read comment sections?  Everything written about them is negative.  And gosh-forbid their stock goes down, or their sales are less than forecasted.  If I had a business where I only sold $2 Billion of stuff rather than $2.001 Billion of stuff, I don't think I would worry about going out of business anytime soon.

Go to an average Walmart on a weekend afternoon and you will see that they are still very popular. The company is still actively building and renovating it's stores, with no sign that it's near death at all.

Comment sections are full of people talking out of there ass(s).

Wow...that bit of sarcasm just flew over your head!  Of course, they are extremely popular.

The big story about McDonald's this week is that they're losing business to "healthy" competitors like Chipotle (when I see a normal portion at Chipotle, I'll remove the quotation marks), which is bringing an end to the tenure of CEO and president Don Thompson. 

I honestly think that Chipotle is only popular because millennials like ethnic food and are actively trying to avoid "American" food for some stupid reason. It's the same reason that the same people who bash McDonalds will also eat at Taco Bell. I honestly don't see Chipotle as being any different than McDonalds and in fact once met up with a friend at a Chipotle and went to the McDonalds next door because I prefer McDonalds if I'm getting unhealthy fast food. We were getting the food to go to head back to my place anyway.

The only reason that Chipotle is doing well is because their style of food is "hip," it has nothing to do with business practices or whatever else they want to claim.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 05, 2015, 11:51:28 PM
I honestly think that Chipotle is only popular because millennials like ethnic food and are actively trying to avoid "American" food for some stupid reason. It's the same reason that the same people who bash McDonalds will also eat at Taco Bell. I honestly don't see Chipotle as being any different than McDonalds and in fact once met up with a friend at a Chipotle and went to the McDonalds next door because I prefer McDonalds if I'm getting unhealthy fast food. We were getting the food to go to head back to my place anyway.

The only reason that Chipotle is doing well is because their style of food is "hip," it has nothing to do with business practices or whatever else they want to claim.

Part of it is atmosphere, and the dislike my generation has of the low risk/low reward proposition. I don't totally get it, but people my age want everything to be an "experience"- maybe it's due to the recession and wanting to get more bang for our buck, I don't know. Chipotle has done a much better job positioning itself as a place you go to have an experience- the food is well presented, the stores look neat, it's a better atmosphere. From what I've observed, Millenials for whatever reason are not comfortable spending a small amount of money to get something mediocre- they either want a lot for very little money, or they want to spend a lot to get a lot, but they have to get a lot. 

McDonald's...it's McDonald's. The food is what it is, the stores aren't going to be memorable, it's just food. What my generation seems to struggle with is the fact that there's nothing wrong with the fact that it's just food. McDonald's isn't going to blow your mind, you're not going to remember every time you've eaten at a McDonald's, but you will get a decent, filling meal very quickly and at a low price. That has value.

I actually really like McDonald's new ad campaign that says "we are what we are"- after the whole clubhouse sandwich "foodies welcome" thing, it's a nice change. McDonald's isn't going to cater to millenial foodies- it's not going to happen and there's no point in trying to market to that demographic. The way I see it, what it can do to be successful is emphasize that it provides decent, very quickly served food at a low price. It's the fast food restaurant for the practical person and the person that just wants a meal and is sick of the fake fancy "feature loaded" crap that is so popular in marketing these days.

I find that our generation is oddly picky about things. See, the fact that we seem more into craft beers than our parents generation.

I'd rather grab a Bud Light and eat at McDonalds. Maybe I was born 20 years too late.

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 05, 2015, 09:53:32 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2015, 12:47:29 PM
How about branch offices of banks.  Since we all have direct deposits, ATMs, and even do banking from our smart phones and PCs why do people even need to use a human teller anymore.

Commercial accounts. Good luck getting $250 in fives, a strap of ones, six rolls of quarters, and nine rolls of pennies out of an ATM. And it's a much more secure feeling when you deposit $1,092 directly to a teller rather than leaving it in the night drop.

I've interacted with humans at a bank in order to:
- open my account in the first place
- change my type of savings account to get a higher interest rate
- get a certified bank check
- order more checks when I ran out
- obtain foreign currency

The ATM certainly suffices for most ordinary banking (deposits, withdrawals, transfers, and balance checks) but there are special cases where you need to talk to someone in order to get something done.

When I worked in retail and for a small town government, I had to often go to the bank to get change or to break large bills into smaller ones. That's about all I ever use a bank for. I couldn't tell you the last time I actually interacted with a human at a bank.

And with Online Banking, you can honestly order your checks online now.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 05, 2015, 11:51:28 PM
I honestly think that Chipotle is only popular because millennials like ethnic food and are actively trying to avoid "American" food for some stupid reason. It's the same reason that the same people who bash McDonalds will also eat at Taco Bell. I honestly don't see Chipotle as being any different than McDonalds and in fact once met up with a friend at a Chipotle and went to the McDonalds next door because I prefer McDonalds if I'm getting unhealthy fast food. We were getting the food to go to head back to my place anyway.

The only reason that Chipotle is doing well is because their style of food is "hip," it has nothing to do with business practices or whatever else they want to claim.

For the "eat-out-every-day crowd", it's just another option. After all, I'd wager most people get tired of the same thing everyday, and people flock to the New Thing until there's another Thing. As for whether it's about ethnic food, there's been Chinese and Mexican (et al) restaurants around for generations...

There's also been a recent push for $9-12 fast food meals, which seems to cater to a slightly "upscale" market; places like Five Guys and Firehouse Subs cost a bit more, but personally, I think it's worth it. Chipotle is okay, but I dread long lines, so I'll have it maybe twice a year. For nearly the same prices, most sit-down Mexican restaurants offer the same food, larger quantities, more total offerings, with table service.

GFS, a wholesale food outlet that is a chain, but one of their stores in Orlando seems to not have many cars in its lot whenever I drive by it.  It amazes me that they have not closed this particular location's doors already.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 12:13:22 AM
I find that our generation is oddly picky about things. See, the fact that we seem more into craft beers than our parents generation.

I'd rather grab a Bud Light and eat at McDonalds. Maybe I was born 20 years too late.

Let's get one thing straight — the core items that make up the McDonald's menu are lousy things for you to eat, particularly with any kind of frequency.  The biggest problem is that a basic meal at McDonald's has most of the calories you need in a day.  It is not what I would call nutrient-dense, and it's generally very high in fat.

So before you formulate your defense of McDonald's, account for all of this.  It's a pretty lousy choice.

Is Chipotle a better choice? It is still, as you put it, fast food, but it is made up far more of grilled rather than fried meats, fresh vegetables, and low-fat ingredients, so yes.  As I said, they really could do better with portion flexibility, but there's nothing stopping you from getting half of something and saving the rest for later.

It's true that there's much more of a market not just among the so-called millennials for more diverse, interesting, and healthy food choices.  You are the first person that I've heard that sounded like they were complaining about this. 

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 12:25:06 AM
When I worked in retail and for a small town government, I had to often go to the bank to get change or to break large bills into smaller ones. That's about all I ever use a bank for. I couldn't tell you the last time I actually interacted with a human at a bank.

And with Online Banking, you can honestly order your checks online now.

Speaking of getting change from a bank, there was a bank back in Cleveland -- Third (World) Federal Savings -- that refused to break a $20.00 bill because I did not have an account there... hence the addition of "World" to their title.    I know there are banks & credit unions that only offer services to actual ATM card carrying customers, but it's the simple trading of legal US tender for crying out loud -- not an elite country club.

I bet if a 10-year old non-customer brought in a piggy bank full of change, they'd have no problem giving them $20 in paper currency for their $20 in coins.

I went into a bank I did not patronize when I received a check from their accountholder and it bounced. I received the check image back from my bank and went over to his bank and showed it to them and said he swore up and down that he now had enough money in his account, so I wanted to know if I could just cash it there to eliminate hassles. They said sure and they checked his account, confirmed he had the money, and gave me the cash.

Quote from: corco on February 06, 2015, 12:06:44 AMPart of it is atmosphere, and the dislike my generation has of the low risk/low reward proposition. I don't totally get it, but people my age want everything to be an "experience"- maybe it's due to the recession and wanting to get more bang for our buck, I don't know. Chipotle has done a much better job positioning itself as a place you go to have an experience- the food is well presented, the stores look neat, it's a better atmosphere. From what I've observed, Millenials for whatever reason are not comfortable spending a small amount of money to get something mediocre- they either want a lot for very little money, or they want to spend a lot to get a lot, but they have to get a lot.

There are some ongoing changes in consumption habits that started before the millennial generation came on the scene.  People in the "Greatest Generation" and the one immediately following were urged to work toward marriage, children, and a single-family house on its own plot of ground, furnished with durables that were thought to hold their value over time, often obtained on hire-purchase:  good furniture, crystal, flatware, appliances like TVs or refrigerators, etc.  The bottom has fallen out of that approach to living since it demands a continuous supply of easily buildable land within convenient commuting distance of jobs, which is now essentially gone in every major metropolitan area in the US.  Condominiums, loft apartments, etc. (often as a result of gentrification) are important components of the housing mix as a result, and these have a lot less room for durables.  Demand for the high-end, costly stuff has evaporated (who, outside the one-percenter class, seriously considers buying real-wood Ethan Allen furniture or Waterford crystal anymore?), while prices for the durables that are useful for day-to-day living have dropped to the point where they can almost be treated as disposable (a refrigerator is a far smaller fraction of household income even for an underpaid millennial in 2015 than it was for a working-class family in 1940).  Younger people are far more encumbered by debt (not just because of skyrocketing tuition, but also because of a broader cultural turn toward household debt) and thus far less financially secure than their parents were at the same age.  For the Girls generation it makes a lot more sense to put money into experiences as these are completely portable and thus can survive multiple rewrites of the life plan to meet financial realities.

QuoteMcDonald's...it's McDonald's. The food is what it is, the stores aren't going to be memorable, it's just food. What my generation seems to struggle with is the fact that there's nothing wrong with the fact that it's just food. McDonald's isn't going to blow your mind, you're not going to remember every time you've eaten at a McDonald's, but you will get a decent, filling meal very quickly and at a low price. That has value.

I respectfully beg to differ on the "decent" and "value" parts.  Yes, the purchase price is low, but because McDonald's food is quite high in fat and sodium and low in micronutrients, it is more likely to cause low-grade digestive upset (often experienced as a general feeling of sluggishness) than healthy food prepared at home.  McDonald's perhaps does not stand out in a diet that consists largely of restaurant food, which in general tends to be higher in fat and sodium than food prepared at home, but I can assure you from personal experience that Sausage McMuffins stick out like a sore thumb when compared to a staple breakfast of cooked oatmeal.

For millennials and Generation Xers on the road, smartphones make better dining options far more accessible compared to McDonald's than was the case in the past.  If you are travelling and want to find somewhere to eat in a strange city but don't want to default to the Golden Arches, you can simply load TripAdvisor on your phone and find out which non-chain restaurant in your price bracket has the best reviews.  This whittles the advantage McDonald's and its chain brethren have in accessibility down to late night in small towns where most of the good locally owned eateries have closed by 8 or 9 PM.

Millennials also have more of an incentive to eat healthily because they are headed into a health-care cost trap.  Medical care has always been expensive in the US, but it has never been more expensive as a proportion of GDP or household income than it is now.  Obamacare is a promise of cost containment that increasingly seems empty, with no likelihood of being replaced with anything better if it fails.  Meanwhile, the march of medical technology means that life-enders are more likely to be rich people's diseases like cancer, which are easier to catch early and treat, but also inflate the risk of medical bankruptcy.  Millennials have to look down the road at a system which is likely to be able to pay for their grandparents' end-of-life care, but not their parents' or their own, so there is no real appeal to storing up trouble for the future by eating at McDonald's.  This leads to a lot of pickiness not just about fast-food options when dining out, but also organics versus "bog standard" at the grocery store.

A traditional meal at McDoanlds would give you about half - not most - of your calories in a day.  http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/nutritionfacts.pdf

Yes, it's not the healthiest part of your day.  In fact, nearly every other fast food restaurant out there...no, make that nearly every other restaurant out there...has choices that would easily exceed a normal meal at McDonalds.

McDonalds gets picked on the most because they're the biggest.  But all things considering, they're not the most unhealthiest.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2015, 01:13:31 PM
A traditional meal at McDoanlds would give you about half - not most - of your calories in a day.  http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/nutritionfacts.pdf

Yes, it's not the healthiest part of your day.  In fact, nearly every other fast food restaurant out there...no, make that nearly every other restaurant out there...has choices that would easily exceed a normal meal at McDonalds.

McDonalds gets picked on the most because they're the biggest.  But all things considering, they're not the most unhealthiest.

It varies based on age, size, metabolism, etc.  For me, though, a Big Mac, medium fries, and a medium Coke has most of the calories that I need in a day.

Yes, you can eat badly at a lot of places, not just McDonald's.  There is no reason to limit any of this commentary just to them.  But really, in the end, the point is that traditional fast food is a lousy option for healthy eating, and this is not helping its declining sales figures.

Anyone hoping for a life without chronic diet-related disease has to set the bar higher than "You could do worse than McDonald's."

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 12:13:22 AM
I find that our generation is oddly picky about things. See, the fact that we seem more into craft beers than our parents generation.

I'd rather grab a Bud Light and eat at McDonalds. Maybe I was born 20 years too late.

So tired of these people who wet themselves over anything "IPA" like they are 100 times better than the average beer.  Stone Cold Steve Austin says that on his show all the time "oh my God I went out to eat and they didn't have an IPA"

To me, the reasoning is more "If I'm going to splurge on food that's bad for me, it should taste a whole lot better than McDonald's".  McDonald's is not the best fast food, or the cheapest.  So it's maybe once every couple of years when I'm in a strange place and don't have time to search for something better.

Quote from: texaskdog on February 06, 2015, 01:34:55 PM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 12:13:22 AM
I find that our generation is oddly picky about things. See, the fact that we seem more into craft beers than our parents generation.

I'd rather grab a Bud Light and eat at McDonalds. Maybe I was born 20 years too late.

So tired of these people who wet themselves over anything "IPA" like they are 100 times better than the average beer.  Stone Cold Steve Austin says that on his show all the time "oh my God I went out to eat and they didn't have an IPA"

It's good to know what Mr. Austin thinks about what I drink.  It'll inform my decision-making next time.

Some people wet themselves over cars, guns, sports... some freak out about inanity like road sign fonts.  Some of us go nuts for special beers.  Takes all kinds, as they say.

But really, thanks, Stone Cold.  Good to know you're taking an interest. 

QuoteStone Cold Steve Austin says that on his show all the time "oh my God I went out to eat and they didn't have an IPA"

Did you not think that IPA is paying Mr Austin to say this?

This is called "product placement"...The placement of advertising within shows...and it is really getting annoying.

Subway is the biggest on this. They have cast members of multiple reality shows including "The Real World", "American Pickers", and "Pawn Stars" eat their sandwiches during the show.

In the "Big Bang Theory", they constantly plug products or services, often in the from of jokes. It's annoying that the scripts of shows are modified to include these advertisements.

Quote from: Brian556 on February 06, 2015, 03:15:08 PM

QuoteStone Cold Steve Austin says that on his show all the time "oh my God I went out to eat and they didn't have an IPA"

Did you not think that IPA is paying Mr Austin to say this?

IPA isn't a company, it's a style of beer.

But yes, I believe there's a lot more to the enjoyment of beer than this one style–but there's another thread for that!

Product Placement is a age-old method of advertising.   M&Ms lost out big in E.T.  Read up on that one!

Quote from: texaskdog on February 06, 2015, 01:34:55 PM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 12:13:22 AM
I find that our generation is oddly picky about things. See, the fact that we seem more into craft beers than our parents generation.

I'd rather grab a Bud Light and eat at McDonalds. Maybe I was born 20 years too late.

So tired of these people who wet themselves over anything "IPA" like they are 100 times better than the average beer.  Stone Cold Steve Austin says that on his show all the time "oh my God I went out to eat and they didn't have an IPA"

Yeah, this is a problem. Beer is beer and I'm not going to blow half of my living budget to have some. I've seen people drink IPAs and other craft beers to get drunk, which sounds like an insanely expensive proposition. I'm also not a huge fan of the strong taste of a lot of craft beers.

And I'm not defending McDonalds or anything and I rarely get fast food unless I'm on the road. I'm just pointing out that if you're going to object to McDonalds on some moral ground then you should probably avoid Chipotle or really anyone else in the fast food market. I'm not complaining about my generation's food choices, just providing an explanation for why Chipotle is up and McDonalds is down. McDonalds food is terrible for you and I would not recommend anyone eat there with any frequency but I would say the same for fast food in general.

Pathmark and Kmart have a 1970s or 1980s vibe whenever you walk in. Also JC Penney's.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 08:33:42 PM

Quote from: texaskdog on February 06, 2015, 01:34:55 PM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 06, 2015, 12:13:22 AM
I find that our generation is oddly picky about things. See, the fact that we seem more into craft beers than our parents generation.

I'd rather grab a Bud Light and eat at McDonalds. Maybe I was born 20 years too late.

So tired of these people who wet themselves over anything "IPA" like they are 100 times better than the average beer.  Stone Cold Steve Austin says that on his show all the time "oh my God I went out to eat and they didn't have an IPA"

Yeah, this is a problem. Beer is beer and I'm not going to blow half of my living budget to have some. I've seen people drink IPAs and other craft beers to get drunk, which sounds like an insanely expensive proposition. I'm also not a huge fan of the strong taste of a lot of craft beers.

And I'm not defending McDonalds or anything and I rarely get fast food unless I'm on the road. I'm just pointing out that if you're going to object to McDonalds on some moral ground then you should probably avoid Chipotle or really anyone else in the fast food market. I'm not complaining about my generation's food choices, just providing an explanation for why Chipotle is up and McDonalds is down. McDonalds food is terrible for you and I would not recommend anyone eat there with any frequency but I would say the same for fast food in general.

Not moral grounds, just a reasoned choice.

Quote from: J Route Z on February 06, 2015, 09:51:48 PM
Pathmark and Kmart have a 1970s or 1980s vibe whenever you walk in. Also JC Penney's.

Interesting factoid: Pathmark (Supermarkets General Co.) was a member of the ShopRite co-op that pulled out in the 1960s.  Something tells me they bet on the wrong horse.

I honestly can't believe A&P is still around.  They have some nice stores, but they've gone through 566346874 store "concepts," they have gone from a nationwide empire to an almost minor regional player, and they still struggle.  They don't compete on price, maintain a lot of their old stores that are typical in size for the 1970s in markets that have otherwise gone over to super-sized supermarkets... I just don't get it.

Despite some locations closed, there still some KFC(Kentucky Fried Chicken) aka PFK in French who still menage to exist here in Quebec. KFC lost some ground to local chains like Normandin and St-Hubert.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 06, 2015, 10:26:00 PM

Quote from: J Route Z on February 06, 2015, 09:51:48 PM
Pathmark and Kmart have a 1970s or 1980s vibe whenever you walk in. Also JC Penney's.

Interesting factoid: Pathmark (Supermarkets General Co.) was a member of the ShopRite co-op that pulled out in the 1960s.  Something tells me they bet on the wrong horse.

I honestly can't believe A&P is still around.  They have some nice stores, but they've gone through 566346874 store "concepts," they have gone from a nationwide empire to an almost minor regional player, and they still struggle.  They don't compete on price, maintain a lot of their old stores that are typical in size for the 1970s in markets that have otherwise gone over to super-sized supermarkets... I just don't get it.

WHAT??  :-o :-o The Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co. STILL exists?!?!?!?!?  W O W !!!  :spin:

They do, and own other brands like Pathmark, Waldbaum's, and more:

http://ap.apsupermarket.com

Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Along those lines, it was a shock to me to find out that Ground Round franchisee locations still exist, somewhere.

Another I'd like to add is Amtrak.  Here in Omaha, we get one eastbound train and one westbound train a day, both at a ridiculously early time of day, and it seems like it would be easier to either drive to your destination or fly if you are going to Denver or Chicago.  Amtrak does not help you get from Omaha to Des Moines, or Kansas City, or Sioux City, or Sioux Falls, or even Grand Island.  The only person I knew who regularly used Amtrak is dead.  I realize there may be a market for rail transport on the east coast, but everywhere else, it seems to have faded away.

IMHO,

Sears, Penney's, etc. - These places have a real estate side to them.  Back in the day they were called "mall makers".  The would play the various developers trying to build a mall in your town off against each other.  Often ended up outright being given their stores.  When you cross from the mall into Sears, you often are crossing a property line.  The mall business model was to make all the money off the interior tenants.  When Sears, et al, own their stores and thus have no real property overhead, they don't have to sell a lot to make money.  Plus, back in the day, not that long ago, Sears, et al, would give ANYBODY credit, while universal credit cards like Visa, et al, were mostly for upper middle class travelers, etc.

McDonald's - Yeah, whatever.  The latest loonie toonie idea is "organic" (in its scientific definition, a meaningless term in this context, in the way the loonies use it, it means "fertilized with s*** and eaten up by pests, rather than safely treated with modern safe products") "local" (yeah, right, that makes economic sense) and, my favorite "Non-GMO" (people have been genetically modifying things since the dawn of civilization, none of the foods anybody eats were created by God, or evolved before man's rise (take your pick) in any form you would recognize.  They were modified by people over 1000s of years via the science of their times, and this continues.  This fad will pass, like all others, and McDonald's will still be there.  The current problem with the company is it committed the cardinal sin for a company.  It became ashamed of what it was.  Wants to cater to the wackos.  Nope.  Be what you are.  "We sell good healthful food at a low price that is a part of an overall diet over time is OK."  Nothing more, nothing less.  Let Starbucks be Starbucks, and be McDonalds.

Radio Shack - Digital stuff is not fixable.  RS used to be the place for parts.  You don't fix digital.  You toss it and buy another one.

Newspapers - Most newspapers are a shadow of their former selves in terms of staff and effort.  It is, sad to say, a dying industry.  In 20 years you will see about 100 serious newspaper across the entire country, and many will be owned by people who are not trying to make a profit, but rather have an axe to grind.

Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff. 

Banks - You don't really need a physical bank all that much, but businesses do.  They are really just glorified communal safes.  Keeping them open does not really cost that much. 

USPS - Likewise, there is really only going to be a few times per year a regular person is going to need services from the USPS that require going to the building.  But its politics.  Nothing is going to change.

Lincoln - Back in the day if you were a "chevy man" you progressed towards a Caddy.  "Ford men" progressed towards a Lincoln.  Both were little more than a "badge engineered" version of the common person's base car.  Check all the options, change the grille, put in some leather, and, boom, a Crown Vic is a Town Car.  No longer are there that many "chevy men" or "Ford men" left.  Their 50 year long assault on the American consumer has left most people far less brand loyal, and more willing to consider the well-made alternatives to their grossly inferior products. 

Amtrak - Scam from day one.  Been discussed to death. 

Amtrak is indeed thriving on the East Coast, especially the Northeast Corridor. With all the TSA silliness and the hassle of getting to and from LaGuardia, it makes little sense to fly from DC or Boston to New York when the train takes you directly to Midtown, usually in less time than flying once you factor in getting to/from the airport, going through the TSA line, waiting at the gate, taxiing seemingly forever, etc.

For the rest of the country it is clearly a niche market.

Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2015, 08:12:14 AMBeer

Your 'people who got it right' made 'beers' that, at best, taste of nothing (and normally taste of rancid rat piss - there's a reason the Americans have been pushing ice cold beers - cold hides the taste). Not only is the Lite beer movement about faux-beer for the people who don't like the taste of beer, but is a snobby move to pretend to be drinking beer, a mass market but traditionally artisan (rather than industrial) drink back across the Atlantic, to hide the truth that they are drinking something that tastes horrible just because it has alcohol in it. The irony is that it's a crappy alcohol delivery system, with low alcohol content.

Craft beer 'snobs' just want beer to taste like beer does elsewhere in the world. While they wouldn't call Sam Adams a craft beer, they don't care that Sam Adams is mass produced in Cincinatti, they care that it actually beer.

The McDonalds issue is indeed similar - neither, however, are snobbish reactions to low-brow cheap produce, but against stuff that isn't food/beer in a meaningful sense. McDonalds isn't nutrious, and Lite beer runs from the flavouring agent of beer - hops.

Quote from: english si on February 08, 2015, 02:59:31 PM

Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2015, 08:12:14 AMBeer

Your 'people who got it right' made 'beers' that, at best, taste of nothing (and normally taste of rancid rat piss - there's a reason the Americans have been pushing ice cold beers - cold hides the taste). Not only is the Lite beer movement about faux-beer for the people who don't like the taste of beer, but is a snobby move to pretend to be drinking beer, a mass market but traditionally artisan (rather than industrial) drink back across the Atlantic, to hide the truth that they are drinking something that tastes horrible just because it has alcohol in it. The irony is that it's a crappy alcohol delivery system, with low alcohol content.

Craft beer 'snobs' just want beer to taste like beer does elsewhere in the world. While they wouldn't call Sam Adams a craft beer, they don't care that Sam Adams is mass produced in Cincinatti, they care that it actually beer.

The McDonalds issue is indeed similar - neither, however, are snobbish reactions to low-brow cheap produce, but against stuff that isn't food/beer in a meaningful sense. McDonalds isn't nutrious, and Lite beer runs from the flavouring agent of beer - hops.

For me, I enjoy McDonald's and Budweiser just as I enjoy a "fancy" burger and an IPA. I don't really compare the two in my mind- if you drink a Budweiser looking for an IPA, you will be disappointed and vice versa. That's how I am able to enjoy both- I don't expect Budweiser to taste like strong beer, which makes it nice to drink after, say, mowing the lawn on a hot summer day. At the same time, when I'm sitting down and want to drink with friends, I tend to like something a little stronger, and for that a Budweiser isn't ideal. That being said, it's hilarious for somebody to essentially say "you're a pussy for drinking IPA," which is basically what SP is saying, when a good 7.5% IPA has a lot more alcohol in it than a 4.2% Budweiser.

I don't know what beer prices in other parts of the country are, but I can get a 6-pack of 9% Hops Juice IPA http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/11972/64364/ for about $9 at a grocery store. A 6-pack of 5% Budweiser is about $6. With both having 12 ounce bottles, I get about .6 fl oz of alcohol per bottle of Budweiser and 1.08 fl oz of alcohol per bottle of Hops Juice. If it takes me 4.32 fl oz of alcohol to get to where I want to be, that's 4 bottles of Hops Juice, which costs $6 or 7 bottles of Budweiser, which costs $7. Given beer prices here, it's actually quite a bit CHEAPER to get drunk on strong microbrews. Add in that I'm supporting a Montana business instead of a Belgian multi-national and it's an easy call, even ignoring the fact that it generally tastes better. Now, Budweiser is perhaps meant to be bought by the 30-pack, in which case it's cheaper, but then I've got 30 beers hogging my kitchen.

Same deal with McDonald's- if I just want some food quickly, McDonald's will leave me satisfied. If I want to go out to dinner, McDonald's won't leave me all that satisfied. I don't compare a Big Mac with a fancier burger- doing that is bound to lead to disappointment. They're essentially two different foods to me.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Interesting how the Howard Johnson's restaurants are near extinction, but there are still quite a bit of Howard Johnson Hotels/Lodges/Inns that are still around.  However, most of the 60's & 70's-style HoJo hotel styled buildings I have seen that are still standing are not HoJos anymore.

Someone mentioned Friendly's earlier.  A good chunk of those that remained in Ohio closed abruptly within the last few months.

Quote from: corco on February 08, 2015, 03:23:00 PM

Quote from: english si on February 08, 2015, 02:59:31 PM

Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2015, 08:12:14 AMBeer

Your 'people who got it right' made 'beers' that, at best, taste of nothing (and normally taste of rancid rat piss - there's a reason the Americans have been pushing ice cold beers - cold hides the taste). Not only is the Lite beer movement about faux-beer for the people who don't like the taste of beer, but is a snobby move to pretend to be drinking beer, a mass market but traditionally artisan (rather than industrial) drink back across the Atlantic, to hide the truth that they are drinking something that tastes horrible just because it has alcohol in it. The irony is that it's a crappy alcohol delivery system, with low alcohol content.

Craft beer 'snobs' just want beer to taste like beer does elsewhere in the world. While they wouldn't call Sam Adams a craft beer, they don't care that Sam Adams is mass produced in Cincinatti, they care that it actually beer.

The McDonalds issue is indeed similar - neither, however, are snobbish reactions to low-brow cheap produce, but against stuff that isn't food/beer in a meaningful sense. McDonalds isn't nutrious, and Lite beer runs from the flavouring agent of beer - hops.

For me, I enjoy McDonald's and Budweiser just as I enjoy a "fancy" burger and an IPA. I don't really compare the two in my mind- if you drink a Budweiser looking for an IPA, you will be disappointed and vice versa. That's how I am able to enjoy both- I don't expect Budweiser to taste like strong beer, which makes it nice to drink after, say, mowing the lawn on a hot summer day. At the same time, when I'm sitting down and want to drink with friends, I tend to like something a little stronger, and for that a Budweiser isn't ideal. That being said, it's hilarious for somebody to essentially say "you're a pussy for drinking IPA," which is basically what SP is saying, when a good 7.5% IPA has a lot more alcohol in it than a 4.2% Budweiser.

I don't know what beer prices in other parts of the country are, but I can get a 6-pack of 9% Hops Juice IPA http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/11972/64364/ for about $9 at a grocery store. A 6-pack of 5% Budweiser is about $6. With both having 12 ounce bottles, I get about .6 fl oz of alcohol per bottle of Budweiser and 1.08 fl oz of alcohol per bottle of Hops Juice. If it takes me 4.32 fl oz of alcohol to get to where I want to be, that's 4 bottles of Hops Juice, which costs $6 or 7 bottles of Budweiser, which costs $7. Given beer prices here, it's actually quite a bit CHEAPER to get drunk on strong microbrews. Add in that I'm supporting a Montana business instead of a Belgian multi-national and it's an easy call, even ignoring the fact that it generally tastes better. Now, Budweiser is perhaps meant to be bought by the 30-pack, in which case it's cheaper, but then I've got 30 beers hogging my kitchen.

Same deal with McDonald's- if I just want some food quickly, McDonald's will leave me satisfied. If I want to go out to dinner, McDonald's won't leave me all that satisfied. I don't compare a Big Mac with a fancier burger- doing that is bound to lead to disappointment. They're essentially two different foods to me.

Re: McDonalds, or nearly any of the Clown's competitors:  If I grab any of their food for lunch or to tide me over until a real meal, I stay with their Value Meal items, which are usually under $1.50 each.   I can get a McDouble Cheeseburger and a Coke for $2.59.  Why spend $3-4 more for the Big Mac Combo, or $3.50 for the sandwich alone?  They just upped their Sausage Biscuits here to $1.29 from $1.00, and now the sausage they use tastes different -- more bland than before.  I used to like getting breakfasts at the McDs in Canada, their sausage had more of a kick to it.

Re: Beer:  One of the big regional "budget beers" around the eastern Great Lakes area is Genesee -- which comes from upper New York State.  About 2 years ago, it started showing up on shelves in Colorado.  It is actually some of the cheapest beer in the state ($3.49-3.99 for a 6 pack) and actually costs less than a 6-pack of Coke or Pepsi.  Some of the people I have talked to around here have tried it and said it's not too bad for the price.  May not be as good as Coors or Coors Light, but palatable.

Quote from: thenetwork on February 08, 2015, 08:48:12 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Interesting how the Howard Johnson's restaurants are near extinction, but there are still quite a bit of Howard Johnson Hotels/Lodges/Inns that are still around.  However, most of the 60's & 70's-style HoJo hotel styled buildings I have seen that are still standing are not HoJos anymore.

Complicated corporate history, easier to suggest a google than try to explain.  But you can see a lot of Hojo hotels with the distinctive restaurant building housing another restaurant.

QuoteSomeone mentioned Friendly's earlier.  A good chunk of those that remained in Ohio closed abruptly within the last few months.

They just closed all Ohio locations, from what I heard.  Fate should have killed Friendly's long ago, but I think some deity owes Prestley Blake a favor.

Radio Shack cannot be said about this anymore.

Quote from: thenetwork on February 08, 2015, 08:48:12 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Interesting how the Howard Johnson's restaurants are near extinction, but there are still quite a bit of Howard Johnson Hotels/Lodges/Inns that are still around.  However, most of the 60's & 70's-style HoJo hotel styled buildings I have seen that are still standing are not HoJos anymore.

Someone mentioned Friendly's earlier.  A good chunk of those that remained in Ohio closed abruptly within the last few months.

The only Friendly's I know of near us (the one on Burke Centre Parkway) closed sometime between Thanksgiving and the Saturday after New Year's. Don't know what's going into the space. We ate there last year one day when we were out shopping. Struck me as the ideal place to take a kids' soccer team after a game, EXCEPT the restaurant didn't have electronic gewgaws so today's kids would probably complain.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 08, 2015, 11:17:38 PM
Radio Shack cannot be said about this anymore.

They are still open.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Along those lines, it was a shock to me to find out that Ground Round franchisee locations still exist, somewhere.

I ate a Ground Round in Bangor, Maine two years ago. They confirmed that there was some big scale-back years ago. Food was good, service was prompt and friendly...moderately busy on a Monday night. 

Last time I ate at one (1982? 1984?), they gave all the kids a token for a random plastic-bubble toy.

Quote from: corco on February 08, 2015, 03:23:00 PM
Add in that I'm supporting a Montana business instead of a Belgian multi-national and it's an easy call, even ignoring the fact that it generally tastes better.

To a point.  But even foreign businesses, unless they are delivering their product direct from their foreign warehouse to a store owned by foreigners, still employs many Americans.  Bud is still brewed in a dozen or so plants around the country.  Trains and trucks deliver those Buds to Distributors.  Distributors deliver it to liquor stores/restaurants/retailers.  Advertisers advertise.  There's water, quality control, Grain growers...and the list goes on.

There's still a lot of Americans involved with the resale of Bud, even if the actual entity is foreign owned.

Quote from: formulanone on February 09, 2015, 09:02:16 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Along those lines, it was a shock to me to find out that Ground Round franchisee locations still exist, somewhere.

I ate a Ground Round in Bangor, Maine two years ago. They confirmed that there was some big scale-back years ago. Food was good and service was prompt and friendly.

Last time I ate at one (1982? 1984?), they gave all the kids a token for a random plastic-bubble toy.

Ground Round closed around 20 years ago.  Former Franchisees bought the rights to the name and have opened some locations.  Basically the same restaurant from many years ago, albeit more up to date.  And the popcorn is still free.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2015, 09:06:21 AM

Quote from: formulanone on February 09, 2015, 09:02:16 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Along those lines, it was a shock to me to find out that Ground Round franchisee locations still exist, somewhere.

I ate a Ground Round in Bangor, Maine two years ago. They confirmed that there was some big scale-back years ago. Food was good and service was prompt and friendly.

Last time I ate at one (1982? 1984?), they gave all the kids a token for a random plastic-bubble toy.

Ground Round closed around 20 years ago.  Former Franchisees bought the rights to the name and have opened some locations.  Basically the same restaurant from many years ago, albeit more up to date.  And the popcorn is still free.

On that note, are Sizzler locations still around?  Feels like a good decade or more since I last saw one of those.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 09, 2015, 10:13:33 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2015, 09:06:21 AM

Quote from: formulanone on February 09, 2015, 09:02:16 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2015, 01:05:22 AM
Have the 2-3 (varies from year to year) Howard Johnson Restaurants been mentioned yet?

Along those lines, it was a shock to me to find out that Ground Round franchisee locations still exist, somewhere.

I ate a Ground Round in Bangor, Maine two years ago. They confirmed that there was some big scale-back years ago. Food was good and service was prompt and friendly.

Last time I ate at one (1982? 1984?), they gave all the kids a token for a random plastic-bubble toy.

Ground Round closed around 20 years ago.  Former Franchisees bought the rights to the name and have opened some locations.  Basically the same restaurant from many years ago, albeit more up to date.  And the popcorn is still free.

On that note, are Sizzler locations still around?  Feels like a good decade or more since I last saw one of those.

According to their website, they are around, and they are mostly out your way in the west.

When the majority of them closed in the east, 1 of the few that remained was down the road from where I went to college in Delaware.  They eventually closed as well, but they hung on for quite some time.

No Friendly's anywhere near my area. The times I have been in an area with a Friendly's, I wanted very badly to try them. However, every location I visited was too crowded. The parking lots were full. The one time I actually did park and get out and go in, there was a line practically out the door. I don't have the patience for that, so I went elsewhere.

There were never any Friendly's around here.  But I enjoyed them when I was on the east coast.  Sorry I won't have that to look forward to on future trips.

I've driven past and gone to one former Friendly's location in Dixon (later a Valero, now an independent gas station) though I don't have any memory of it as one.

Quote from: kkt on February 09, 2015, 12:15:25 PM
There were never any Friendly's around here.  But I enjoyed them when I was on the east coast.  Sorry I won't have that to look forward to on future trips.

There are plenty of them here.  Not as many as in years past, but plenty.

People complain about them a lot, yet they are often packed as mentioned.  I guess they just don't handle that volume well. 

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2015, 12:57:32 PM

Quote from: kkt on February 09, 2015, 12:15:25 PM
There were never any Friendly's around here.  But I enjoyed them when I was on the east coast.  Sorry I won't have that to look forward to on future trips.

There are plenty of them here.  Not as many as in years past, but plenty.

People complain about them a lot, yet they are often packed as mentioned.  I guess they just don't handle that volume well.

Recently a lot of Friendly's closed down in Connecticut. There is still one in Milford that seems to be doing well. I never understood why it was so popular. Their food is "okay" and one time we waited almost 2 hours for our food when some machine broke and they didn't tell us.

I can't think of anyplace around here where you can get a meal and ice cream sundaes made with a wide choice of ice cream and toppings in the same place.  Many ice cream places, but they don't serve meals too.

Quote from: JakeFromNewEngland on February 09, 2015, 01:16:44 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2015, 12:57:32 PM

Quote from: kkt on February 09, 2015, 12:15:25 PM
There were never any Friendly's around here.  But I enjoyed them when I was on the east coast.  Sorry I won't have that to look forward to on future trips.

There are plenty of them here.  Not as many as in years past, but plenty.

People complain about them a lot, yet they are often packed as mentioned.  I guess they just don't handle that volume well.

Recently a lot of Friendly's closed down in Connecticut. There is still one in Milford that seems to be doing well. I never understood why it was so popular. Their food is "okay" and one time we waited almost 2 hours for our food when some machine broke and they didn't tell us.

Why would you have stayed that long?  Make me wait an hour for my food, shame on you, make me wait two...

In 2011 or 12 a bunch closed in bankruptcy reorganization.

I always thought the problem was not so much having too many stores as it is just figuring out things like when you have kids and ice cream everything ends up sticky and you have to wipe things down. They have not been great in getting little details through to their staff.

And, as you say, don't keep secrets from your customers.

I used to love Friendlys. I say used to because the one in Montgomery closed down (closest to me) so we never went out of our way to one, and this was before I become lactose-intolerant. Their ice cream was so good. Their normal food tasted perfectly fine to me as well.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2015, 02:03:50 PM

Quote from: JakeFromNewEngland on February 09, 2015, 01:16:44 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2015, 12:57:32 PM

Quote from: kkt on February 09, 2015, 12:15:25 PM
There were never any Friendly's around here.  But I enjoyed them when I was on the east coast.  Sorry I won't have that to look forward to on future trips.

There are plenty of them here.  Not as many as in years past, but plenty.

People complain about them a lot, yet they are often packed as mentioned.  I guess they just don't handle that volume well.

Recently a lot of Friendly's closed down in Connecticut. There is still one in Milford that seems to be doing well. I never understood why it was so popular. Their food is "okay" and one time we waited almost 2 hours for our food when some machine broke and they didn't tell us.

Why would you have stayed that long?  Make me wait an hour for my food, shame on you, make me wait two...

In 2011 or 12 a bunch closed in bankruptcy reorganization.

I always thought the problem was not so much having too many stores as it is just figuring out things like when you have kids and ice cream everything ends up sticky and you have to wipe things down. They have not been great in getting little details through to their staff.

And, as you say, don't keep secrets from your customers.

We were with a large group of people and everyone wanted to stay. This was at least 5-6 years ago. If I was in that situation today, I would've left immediately.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2015, 08:52:24 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 08, 2015, 11:17:38 PM
Radio Shack cannot be said about this anymore.

They are still open.

Not for long (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg2041214)

Quote from: vdeane on February 09, 2015, 03:41:05 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2015, 08:52:24 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 08, 2015, 11:17:38 PM
Radio Shack cannot be said about this anymore.

They are still open.

Not for long (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg2041214)

This has been beaten to death here and in the news media in general, but there's no indication that the stores are going completely away.  Sprint is buying a bunch of them, and apparently just doesn't need all the space in most of those locations. And then there is the usual issue of franchisees, who are going to have a choice of what to do with their locations.

So amazingly, Radio Shack may not be dead just yet.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 09, 2015, 10:13:33 AM
On that note, are Sizzler locations still around?  Feels like a good decade or more since I last saw one of those.

They have a Sizzler in Omaha on L Street.  I thought they had one other one in the Omaha area.  I have never been there (largely a function of the fact I don't live close to there).

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2015, 04:05:50 PMSo amazingly, Radio Shack may not be dead just yet.

:sombrero:  Sorry, I just had to.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2015, 09:04:34 AM

Quote from: corco on February 08, 2015, 03:23:00 PM
Add in that I'm supporting a Montana business instead of a Belgian multi-national and it's an easy call, even ignoring the fact that it generally tastes better.

To a point.  But even foreign businesses, unless they are delivering their product direct from their foreign warehouse to a store owned by foreigners, still employs many Americans.  Bud is still brewed in a dozen or so plants around the country.  Trains and trucks deliver those Buds to Distributors.  Distributors deliver it to liquor stores/restaurants/retailers.  Advertisers advertise.  There's water, quality control, Grain growers...and the list goes on.

There's still a lot of Americans involved with the resale of Bud, even if the actual entity is foreign owned.

Sure, but much like with any product, I'd rather support the American based company because maybe one day that company will overtake InBev or whatever and those workers that work for a Dutch InBev can now work for an American whatever. In the meantime I'm supporting American workers either way.

I'd say that the businesses I'm most surprised about are:

   
• Kmart: Seems like the Big K is only really trying to make its' stores look a bit snazzier (with the new logo/slight sign changes), but by ignoring everything else. This must be Kmart's "Glided Age", really. Speaking of outdated products, I once saw a pack of batteries that expired in 2011 at the checkout line when I visited my Manassas, VA Kmart (now closed) in January 2013. Just hire a new CEO, goshdarnit!
• Don Pablo's: Don't eat there, but my town's restaurant iis really still around in 2015.

To a lesser extent...

   
• GameStop: It's still good, but really, doesn't seem to be that relevant these days. Blame it on the Steam, 'got it off the seam, blame it on the phone, 'got it off the zone... (had to make that reference  :p )
• Shoppers (D.C./Baltimore grocery chain): Out of all the chains, Shoppers has to be the weakest competitor in the D.C. area. The last "new" store opened in late 2007 (the Mondawmin Mall location); but it technically would have to be the Ellicott City, MD one which opened in 2011 and closed a few months ago. Also, I'd say the inside of the latest store version looks bland as heck. The only real redeeming quality would have to be the few stores that haven't remodeled yet, and those Donuts. Mmm...

Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on February 09, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
GameStop: It's still good, but really, doesn't seem to be that relevant these days. Blame it on the Steam, 'got it off the seam, blame it on the phone, 'got it off the zone... (had to make that reference  :p )

GameStop still does good business. Not all games can be digitally downloaded. Consoles themselves of course cannot, and neither can accessories. And nerds being nerds, people like to go to release parties. Or go to the store to physically browse, unsure when they go in what they might walk out with.

GameStop is somewhat special in the retail world, though, since it is pretty much the only game in town for what it does. There is no other major chain dedicated exclusively to selling video games, only mom & pop stores, and the Best Buys of the world which sell games but not with a large selection. If GameStop and EB Games had not merged a while back, it is likely that one of them would be falling apart and going bust at this point.


It is amazing just how many GameStop locations there are, though. Seems like they have more stores than they really need. There are two in Stamford (CT) that are less than a mile away from each other. One of them was an EB Games prior to the merger but 10 years later they're both still there. Seems like one of them should get axed.

The same is true of GameStop in Downer's Grove. There's one within sight of another on either side of the intersection of Lemont Rd and 75th St. I'm not shocked that they're still around or making decent business, but that they haven't needed to consolidate any of their stores or really change their business model over the years, other than adding downloadable games to their website. Not that I'd buy stock in them anytime soon. It's my opinion that the console video game market is going to burst eventually, given smartphone gaming and how 90% of games nowadays are shooters or sports, eventually people are going to get sick of the same old BS.

Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on February 09, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
I'd say that the businesses I'm most surprised about are:

   
• Kmart: Seems like the Big K is only really trying to make its' stores look a bit snazzier (with the new logo/slight sign changes), but by ignoring everything else. This must be Kmart's "Glided Age", really. Speaking of outdated products, I once saw a pack of batteries that expired in 2011 at the checkout line when I visited my Manassas, VA Kmart (now closed) in January 2013. Just hire a new CEO, goshdarnit!
• Don Pablo's: Don't eat there, but my town's restaurant iis really still around in 2015.

To a lesser extent...

   
• GameStop: It's still good, but really, doesn't seem to be that relevant these days. Blame it on the Steam, 'got it off the seam, blame it on the phone, 'got it off the zone... (had to make that reference  :p )
• Shoppers (D.C./Baltimore grocery chain): Out of all the chains, Shoppers has to be the weakest competitor in the D.C. area. The last "new" store opened in late 2007 (the Mondawmin Mall location); but it technically would have to be the Ellicott City, MD one which opened in 2011 and closed a few months ago. Also, I'd say the inside of the latest store version looks bland as heck. The only real redeeming quality would have to be the few stores that haven't remodeled yet, and those Donuts. Mmm...

Speaking of grocery chains, Albertson's seems to struggle, at least the ones near me.  They're never very crowded, and I think most go to Vons or Ralphs. Not sure how they're holding up in other areas, though I want to say they went through a BK not too long ago.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 10, 2015, 10:09:40 AM

Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on February 09, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
I'd say that the businesses I'm most surprised about are:

   
• Kmart: Seems like the Big K is only really trying to make its' stores look a bit snazzier (with the new logo/slight sign changes), but by ignoring everything else. This must be Kmart's "Glided Age", really. Speaking of outdated products, I once saw a pack of batteries that expired in 2011 at the checkout line when I visited my Manassas, VA Kmart (now closed) in January 2013. Just hire a new CEO, goshdarnit!
• Don Pablo's: Don't eat there, but my town's restaurant iis really still around in 2015.

To a lesser extent...

   
• GameStop: It's still good, but really, doesn't seem to be that relevant these days. Blame it on the Steam, 'got it off the seam, blame it on the phone, 'got it off the zone... (had to make that reference  :p )
• Shoppers (D.C./Baltimore grocery chain): Out of all the chains, Shoppers has to be the weakest competitor in the D.C. area. The last "new" store opened in late 2007 (the Mondawmin Mall location); but it technically would have to be the Ellicott City, MD one which opened in 2011 and closed a few months ago. Also, I'd say the inside of the latest store version looks bland as heck. The only real redeeming quality would have to be the few stores that haven't remodeled yet, and those Donuts. Mmm...

Speaking of grocery chains, Albertson's seems to struggle, at least the ones near me.  They're never very crowded, and I think most go to Vons or Ralphs. Not sure how they're holding up in other areas, though I want to say they went through a BK not too long ago.

Albertson's recently bought out many of the Safeways in the Western US.  I had heard the Safeways were to be converted over to the Albertson's namesake back in November, but that has yet to happen.

In my neck of the woods, Safeway was/is overpriced and the employees were/are the laziest, most rude people I have come across in a grocery store (next to the WalMart Supercenters).  City Market (Kroger), Albertson's and Wally World will be the Big 3 in my area after Safeway gets converted.   

Albertsons?  I thought they went under?  In Florida they closed all the Orlando stores and the rest got bought out by Publix.  They were in trouble, or at least they wanted us to think it.

If they still are around then Orlando shoppers should be pissed.  Here we thought that we lost a good thing and that thing is still being kept alive someplace else.  In fact it makes me mad that they want to buy out Safeway, but they do not want to start over in our area.

Quote from: Duke87 on February 10, 2015, 02:08:03 AM

Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on February 09, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
GameStop: It's still good, but really, doesn't seem to be that relevant these days. Blame it on the Steam, 'got it off the seam, blame it on the phone, 'got it off the zone... (had to make that reference  :p )

GameStop still does good business. Not all games can be digitally downloaded. Consoles themselves of course cannot, and neither can accessories. And nerds being nerds, people like to go to release parties. Or go to the store to physically browse, unsure when they go in what they might walk out with.

GameStop is somewhat special in the retail world, though, since it is pretty much the only game in town for what it does. There is no other major chain dedicated exclusively to selling video games, only mom & pop stores, and the Best Buys of the world which sell games but not with a large selection. If GameStop and EB Games had not merged a while back, it is likely that one of them would be falling apart and going bust at this point.


It is amazing just how many GameStop locations there are, though. Seems like they have more stores than they really need. There are two in Stamford (CT) that are less than a mile away from each other. One of them was an EB Games prior to the merger but 10 years later they're both still there. Seems like one of them should get axed.

If there's ever a question about a company, take a look at their stock.  And in Gamestop's case, it's not doing too bad.  If you bought in 2012 and held thru 2013, you did wonderful.  2014 wasn't great, but still not down as far as it was in 2011.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 04:24:59 PM

QuoteK-Mart. The shelves at my local store are half empty, the flooring cracked, the ceiling leaking - and yet they still remain in business.

I wasn't even aware the chain was still in business until I recently drove by one in Anaheim.

I thought they went bankrupt some years ago, but looks like they re-emerged only to be on life support, from what it sounds like.

They're circling the drain, if my last visit to a K-Mart was any indication: I was at a classic-car show in a mall parking lot, and the K-mart was maybe a hundred feet from the cars. I had to use the restroom and went into K-mart for that purpose, and even with the car show right outside, the place was empty of customers and employees--you could've gone berserk with a machine gun and not hit anybody. The floor was grungy, the merchandise looked tired, it was just not a pleasant place to be in at all.

Kmart employees look and act miserable and resigned.  This is also how I feel when shopping there.

Quote from: ajlynch91 on February 10, 2015, 06:16:00 AM
The same is true of GameStop in Downer's Grove. There's one within sight of another on either side of the intersection of Lemont Rd and 75th St. I'm not shocked that they're still around or making decent business, but that they haven't needed to consolidate any of their stores or really change their business model over the years, other than adding downloadable games to their website. Not that I'd buy stock in them anytime soon. It's my opinion that the console video game market is going to burst eventually, given smartphone gaming and how 90% of games nowadays are shooters or sports, eventually people are going to get sick of the same old BS.

Indeed, my area is completely saturated with GameStops, with ten on the Peninsula alone.  Patrick Henry Mall (not a particularly large mall, only 130 shops) has two individual stores, one a former EB Games that never was consolidated. This leads to a situation where you have four stores within a two mile radius of each other.
Even worse, Peninsula Town Center (a redevelopment of the old Coliseum Mall) inexplicably has three (!!!) stores, all opened after 2010. They seem to be doing good business, however, with another planned to go into a new development in Newport News.

Quote from: hm insulators on February 10, 2015, 03:54:03 PM

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 04:24:59 PM

QuoteK-Mart. The shelves at my local store are half empty, the flooring cracked, the ceiling leaking - and yet they still remain in business.

I wasn't even aware the chain was still in business until I recently drove by one in Anaheim.

I thought they went bankrupt some years ago, but looks like they re-emerged only to be on life support, from what it sounds like.

They're circling the drain, if my last visit to a K-Mart was any indication: I was at a classic-car show in a mall parking lot, and the K-mart was maybe a hundred feet from the cars. I had to use the restroom and went into K-mart for that purpose, and even with the car show right outside, the place was empty of customers and employees--you could've gone berserk with a machine gun and not hit anybody. The floor was grungy, the merchandise looked tired, it was just not a pleasant place to be in at all.

Like Radio Shack, I don't know how KMart has hung on this long for years now.  Some of the descriptions here were typical of KMart even 25+ years ago.  I remember my mother talking about a KMart in the Cherry Hill, NJ area near an office park where she worked in the mid 80s.  The KMart was convenient to the office park, so a number of people, including her, would run over there during their lunch break.  They would have one lane open with a huge line.  This of course soon deterred what could have been a good customer base from continuing to shop there.  I've seen the same pattern since that time.  Nothing has changed and no lessons have been learned.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
Albertsons?  I thought they went under?  In Florida they closed all the Orlando stores and the rest got bought out by Publix.  They were in trouble, or at least they wanted us to think it.

If they still are around then Orlando shoppers should be pissed.  Here we thought that we lost a good thing and that thing is still being kept alive someplace else.  In fact it makes me mad that they want to buy out Safeway, but they do not want to start over in our area.

Not only that, they bought the ACME chain up in the Northeast; the last time I went home to Philly in 2008 I went to the local store to shop there and all of the badges the employees were wearing said ACME and in smaller letters "An Albertson's Company".  And I'm sitting here going "wait, they got nuked by Publix in Florida and they nuked ACME here? What?"

I read a good article that proposed what would require a Steve-Jobs-like turnaround job that proposed that Radio Shack do a massive sales analysis, drastically shrink, and almost start from scratch to target the right stores with today's versions of the DiY technology that made it big back when.  Nanobots, tiny computers, sensors, DNA test kits–basically the parts list from a Make magazine.

I think it's a great idea, and one almost completely beyond the capability of almost any turnaround artist to pull off.

Quote from: DeaconG on February 11, 2015, 12:30:45 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
Albertsons?  I thought they went under?  In Florida they closed all the Orlando stores and the rest got bought out by Publix.  They were in trouble, or at least they wanted us to think it.

If they still are around then Orlando shoppers should be pissed.  Here we thought that we lost a good thing and that thing is still being kept alive someplace else.  In fact it makes me mad that they want to buy out Safeway, but they do not want to start over in our area.

Not only that, they bought the ACME chain up in the Northeast; the last time I went home to Philly in 2008 I went to the local store to shop there and all of the badges the employees were wearing said ACME and in smaller letters "An Albertson's Company".  And I'm sitting here going "wait, they got nuked by Publix in Florida and they nuked ACME here? What?"

SuperValu, the company that owns Albertson's, owns Shaw's/Star in New England.  Under this leadership, Shaw's has left Connecticut entirely, pulled back in Maine, and has even closed stores in Boston.

They keep revamping store appearances, but I think they're just getting hammered by Market Basket, ShopRite, and Hannaford's, the first two of which are considerably cheaper and the last of which has many more new stores.

I don't think it's any worse than Stop & Shop, which is kind of its equally moribund sibling in the market, but its competition fights harder for a slice of a pie being further shrunken by Target and Walmart. 

When I lived in New Hampshire, I had the choice between Shaw's, Price Chopper and Hannaford. I usually shopped at the latter two and for some reason was never a big Shaw's guy. I wouldn't be surprised if Shaw's is entirely out of business within 5 years.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2015, 12:48:10 AM
I read a good article that proposed what would require a Steve-Jobs-like turnaround job that proposed that Radio Shack do a massive sales analysis, drastically shrink, and almost start from scratch to target the right stores with today's versions of the DiY technology that made it big back when.  Nanobots, tiny computers, sensors, DNA test kits–basically the parts list from a Make magazine.

I think it's a great idea, and one almost completely beyond the capability of almost any turnaround artist to pull off.

Yeah, but Radio Shack's reputation is for bad cell phone deals and off-brand batteries.  Even if they used Radio Shack's remaining capital and some of their storefronts, starting a new brand would be a necessary first step.

Quote from: DeaconG on February 11, 2015, 12:30:45 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
Albertsons?  I thought they went under?  In Florida they closed all the Orlando stores and the rest got bought out by Publix.  They were in trouble, or at least they wanted us to think it.

If they still are around then Orlando shoppers should be pissed.  Here we thought that we lost a good thing and that thing is still being kept alive someplace else.  In fact it makes me mad that they want to buy out Safeway, but they do not want to start over in our area.

Not only that, they bought the ACME chain up in the Northeast; the last time I went home to Philly in 2008 I went to the local store to shop there and all of the badges the employees were wearing said ACME and in smaller letters "An Albertson's Company".  And I'm sitting here going "wait, they got nuked by Publix in Florida and they nuked ACME here? What?"

There was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 11, 2015, 10:46:06 AM

Quote from: DeaconG on February 11, 2015, 12:30:45 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
Albertsons?  I thought they went under?  In Florida they closed all the Orlando stores and the rest got bought out by Publix.  They were in trouble, or at least they wanted us to think it.

If they still are around then Orlando shoppers should be pissed.  Here we thought that we lost a good thing and that thing is still being kept alive someplace else.  In fact it makes me mad that they want to buy out Safeway, but they do not want to start over in our area.

Not only that, they bought the ACME chain up in the Northeast; the last time I went home to Philly in 2008 I went to the local store to shop there and all of the badges the employees were wearing said ACME and in smaller letters "An Albertson's Company".  And I'm sitting here going "wait, they got nuked by Publix in Florida and they nuked ACME here? What?"

There was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

There still is: http://www.acmemarkets.com

There are a gazillion companies called "Acme."  It's so stereotypical and boastful a name that I'm sure that's why it was chosen.  It's like "Peerless," "A-1," etc.

In terms of businesses you're surprised are still around....

I was just listening to the radio and the business report mentioned AOL and said they still have 2.2 million dial-up subscribers. I am not surprised there are still people who have dial-up Internet, especially people in rural locations who may not have much choice. I am kind of surprised AOL still has that much of a customer base, though.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 11, 2015, 10:46:06 AMThere was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

Doesn't Wile E. Coyote have a LinkedIn page that identifies him as "Chief product tester at Acme Enterprises"?  ISTR he uses Ajax when he needs something that really works.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2015, 10:57:01 AMThere are a gazillion companies called "Acme."  It's so stereotypical and boastful a name that I'm sure that's why it was chosen.  It's like "Peerless," "A-1," etc.

Ace.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 11, 2015, 11:05:10 AM
In terms of businesses you're surprised are still around....

I was just listening to the radio and the business report mentioned AOL and said they still have 2.2 million dial-up subscribers. I am not surprised there are still people who have dial-up Internet, especially people in rural locations who may not have much choice. I am kind of surprised AOL still has that much of a customer base, though.

Same here.  My parents actually still have their old (circa 1996-97ish) AOL email addresses, though they haven't actually paid for the AOL service in years.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2015, 01:11:27 AMI don't think it's any worse than Stop & Shop, which is kind of its equally moribund sibling in the market

I believe that Stop & Shop, Giant and Martin's are now owned by the same company.  Which explains the same fruit basket logo on the store-brand products in all three stores.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 11, 2015, 10:46:06 AMThere was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

I thought the exact same thing when I first moved to the Greater Philly area circa 1990.

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 11, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
Ace.

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

Not sure why AOL hasn't off-loaded the dial-up customers to local ISPs, maybe because there's few (if any) of those still around. But the AOL media empire has Huffington Post, which continues to generate an ever-increasing metric crap-ton of hits.

I wonder about all these bookstore.  I think a lot of B & N traffic are people who want to sit on couches and read like they are at the liberry.  Place is always busy, we just went in to look at bibles since it's the kind of thing it's hard to check out online.

Quote from: formulanone on February 11, 2015, 01:01:38 PM
This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

Yes, where I live in Seattle the closest Home Depot and Lowe's are 30 minutes each way, or more when there's heavy traffic.  Ace is 10 minutes each way.  90% of the time Ace has what I need, and their staff is more helpful.

Quote from: texaskdog on February 11, 2015, 01:09:41 PM
I wonder about all these bookstore.  I think a lot of B & N traffic are people who want to sit on couches and read like they are at the library.

During the 1990s, Barnes and Noble (and Border's) tapped into my inner impulse buyer. Wander into a section, meet folks with similar interests, or pick up something randomly on a topic you didn't know anything about. When the internet was still limited or non-existent, and talking in the library is verboten, that was still fun on a rainy day or if you just needed an excuse to drink coffee.

There were also times I used it like a library for works I felt I'd probably never care to read about again.

Quote from: formulanone on February 11, 2015, 01:01:38 PMThis reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

It is an interesting question.  I suspect part of the answer has to do with very low land costs.  Ace tends to set up in strip shopping centers far away from the "hot" retail areas in a given city.  There are two Ace stores relatively near me, both of which are the anchor tenants in 1950's shopping centers.  One has a very small parking lot while Ace moved in at the other after Dillons (the locally dominant Kroger branch, which attracted much more traffic) moved out.  And Ace does have a proximity advantage.  If I want to buy a tool, Ace is much nearer than Harbor Freight, which is a 20-minute drive away.  Ace sells stuff in smaller packages:  if I need, say, a hole saw to modify a battery hold-down strap for an Optima Red Top, Ace will sell me just the pilot bit and specific size of saw I need for about half as much as Harbor Freight will charge me for a full set of hole saws I will probably never use.  (Ace's price, of course, includes a much higher margin per saw.)  Ace is still the best place to buy the small gubbins that are needed for a project (such as individual rubber washers, O-rings, screws, bolts, lengths of heat-shrink tubing, etc.) without having to buy in bulk to get just one of each item.  The margin per item is much higher but the benefit is not having to discard or find storage space for unused remainders.  Ace stores are also smaller and more heavily staffed per unit of sales floor area than big-box stores like Home Depot, so it takes less time to search for what is necessary, and help is easier to get.

Of course, Ace is not perfect.  If you have a project that involves piping, grew up using white lead mixed with boiled linseed oil as pipe dope, and refuse absolutely to use Teflon tape, good luck finding Teflon pipe dope instead of Teflon tape at Ace.

Quote from: formulanone on February 11, 2015, 01:01:38 PM

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 11, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
Ace.

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

They stay in business:
- because they are not 20 minutes further from someone close to them
- because the buying/marketing power of the Ace/TrueValue/etc. co-ops are not insignificant
- because their selection is often better and more flexible in areas than big-box (in small hardware, particularly, Home Depot is crap, while Lowe's is marginally better)
- because their business is better tuned to local customer bases
- because their staff tend to know much better what they have, what it does, and what a customer needs to solve their particular problem.  This is where the "if you know exactly what you want" comment above puzzles me.  Good luck finding the person at Home Depot that has the specific expertise you need.  There are fewer than one per area per shift that are particularly experienced.

If you make very regular use of hardware stores and their big box competitors, the strengths of the former are very clear.

This was an Ace project:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saturnfans.com%2Fforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D41275%26amp%3Bstc%3D1%26amp%3Bd%3D1421598363&hash=571b8ae0b57e55705a1f825b0f4465e7d03f5be2)

The battery hold-down strap came from a junkyard, but everything else (including tools to make) came from Ace.  The design goal was to get the strap to go over the top posts without shorting the battery.  To get the right size of nylon snap bushing and thus the correct diameter of hole saw, I had to bring one of the insulator caps with me to Ace so I could physically compare it to the various sizes of snap bushing that were available.  There are also O-rings over each post to seat the strap (not visible in the photo) and those came from Ace too, through the same mechanism of comparing insulator cap to the various sizes of O-rings in the plumbing supply section.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 11, 2015, 10:46:06 AM
There was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

Acme, the supermarket, has been around way longer (1890's) than Acme, the never-probably working gadget store visited by coyotes.

Acme, the supermarket, has a solid footprint in the Philadelphia area market, although their prices have always tended to be high.  They have closed several stores over the past decade, although they are still a dominant player in the area.

BTW, you also have to understand the pronunciation of Acme in the Philly area.  It's Ack-ah-me. No clue where the 2nd syllable came from.

Quote from: formulanone on February 11, 2015, 01:01:38 PM

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 11, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
Ace.

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

In one town near me, there's a True Value, Lowes & Home Depot.  They all co-exist fine.   The successful True Values and Ace's do well for the reasons already mentioned: friendly service and stock that meets the needs of the area.  There's a very independent hardware store near me that opened up relatively recently...same thing - they're not going to carry 2x12's, but for a heating register for the many homes built in the 1950's in the area or other various small items, I can get in, buy what I need, and back home before I even reach the Lowes that's only 10 minutes away.

Some of the Ace/True Value outlets here also do a brisk housewares/outdoor accessories/home decor business.  Some have a garden business attached (nearly always better that the big boxes). 

They also usually carry better paints than the big stores.  I'm no painter, but this is the emphatic opinion of the painters I know.

(All these ways these stores can excel make it truly depressing when one is lousy, but even those often have one strength that keeps them going.)

The biggest and oldest grocery chain in the Akron/Canton area is called ACME.  But it is in no relation to any other Acme stores outside of NE OH, except for the fact that the founder "borrowed" the name from the Acme chain out east.  They also used to have a chain of non-food stores called Click (with some of them -- Acme & Click -- under the same roof), but most of those Clicks have gone under or were absorbed under the Acme name.

There also used to be a chain of grocery stores in the Cleveland area called Stop & Shop, but again -- to my knowledge -- they were not related to any other S&S's outside of NE OH.

There also used to be another grocery chain in Cleveland called Eagle Supermarkets, which slowly went under by the late 90s.  Around the same time, the PA-based chain GIANT Eagle came to town, but again, the two were not related.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 11, 2015, 12:57:21 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2015, 01:11:27 AMI don't think it's any worse than Stop & Shop, which is kind of its equally moribund sibling in the market

I believe that Stop & Shop, Giant and Martin's are now owned by the same company.  Which explains the same fruit basket logo on the store-brand products in all three stores.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 11, 2015, 10:46:06 AMThere was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

I thought the exact same thing when I first moved to the Greater Philly area circa 1990.

I grew up around the ACME Markets distribution center at 57th and Upland Way. Walked past it going to high school for years...building's still there, though I don't know who the tenants are.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2015, 03:53:03 PM
Some of the Ace/True Value outlets here also do a brisk housewares/outdoor accessories/home decor business.  Some have a garden business attached (nearly always better that the big boxes). 

They also usually carry better paints than the big stores.  I'm no painter, but this is the emphatic opinion of the painters I know.

(All these ways these stores can excel make it truly depressing when one is lousy, but even those often have one strength that keeps them going.)

A planner once told me that the sign of a vibrant town center is a local hardware store. Often these are True Value stores.

Quote from: thenetwork on February 11, 2015, 07:59:32 PM
There also used to be another grocery chain in Cleveland called Eagle Supermarkets, which slowly went under by the late 90s.  Around the same time, the PA-based chain GIANT Eagle came to town, but again, the two were not related.

It's funny you should mention that, because in the Chicago area, they had an Eagle supermarket chain as well, which was my first employer, only they were based out of the Quad Cities.  They eventually went under as well.  That Eagle and your Eagle were highly unlikely to be related.

Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2015, 08:12:14 AM
Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff.   

That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Or maybe you are that bat-ignorant. I like some "craft" beers because of the way they taste. I'm not trying to look "cool" by drinking a certain type of beer. I'd drink a good high quality beer by myself. What I can't stand is the cheap, corn or rice-based swill like Budweiser, Coors, and Miller. That shit is made for those who don't like beer. Bud Light tastes like water with a hint of a hoppy flavor. It's not beer. Your taste buds are just too primitive to know what a real beer is supposed to taste like. Quit making generalizations about things you have no clue about.

PS: You admitted to liking American adjunct lagers, so your opinion on beer is irrelevant.

Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2015, 08:12:14 AM
Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff.   

Look how cranky the Budweisers of the world make people.  Let that be a lesson, kids.

The rant above is about as sensical as complaining that white bread should be good enough for people and anyone eating other kinds is doing it for appearances.

Busch et al. did get one thing right–after Prohibition they locked down one inoffensive style as the definition of "beer," and duped a public with few choices into embracing this marketing plan.  I bet they didn't think they'd dupe people into defending it, too.

It's no surprise that homebrewing was essentially banned, lest people figure out what they were missing, and when the restriction was lifted, a world of Bud-brewers didn't emerge, but rather a renaissance of old traditional styles the big boys couldn't be bothered with anymore.

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

Yes, Budweiser-style beer is all a product of prohibition, and the circumstances under which it was repealed. As mentioned above, IPAs and such are relatively easy to brew in small batches with consistency, but the repeal was not conducive to such operations. Now that there's more freedom, it's these easier styles that have overtaken the craft market, whereas Budweiser-style is rarely made on this scale because it's extremely difficult to brew consistently and thus not worth the effort for microbreweries. It needs the strict quality control and high-capacity production lines of the A-B and similar companies to make a commercially viable product.

Quote from: empirestate on March 02, 2015, 06:59:51 PM
Yes, Budweiser-style beer is all a product of prohibition, and the circumstances under which it was repealed. As mentioned above, IPAs and such are relatively easy to brew in small batches with consistency, but the repeal was not conducive to such operations. Now that there's more freedom, it's these easier styles that have overtaken the craft market, whereas Budweiser-style is rarely made on this scale because it's extremely difficult to brew consistently and thus not worth the effort for microbreweries. It needs the strict quality control and high-capacity production lines of the A-B and similar companies to make a commercially viable product.

I think that there's also a stigma associated with pale yellow lagers because of Budweiser and its ilk.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 02, 2015, 03:36:25 PM

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

Sam Adams in brewed in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, last I heard. Rolling Rock is brewed in New Jersey...

Quote from: algorerhythms on March 03, 2015, 11:31:54 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 02, 2015, 03:36:25 PM

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

Sam Adams in brewed in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, last I heard. Rolling Rock is brewed in New Jersey...

Sam Adams is brewed in PA, but not in Latrobe. Not sure of the town but it is right off I-78 west of Allentown. It was a Stroh's brewery in the late 80s/early 90s.

SP Cook is correct in part of his diatribe - Sam Adams is also mass brewed in Cincinnati, and the Jamaica Plain brewery shown in the commercials does not brew in commercial quantities. That being said, every style of Sam Adams beer except the Boston Lager has originated in Jamaica Plain.

The best Budweiser I ever had was when I took a tour of their St. Louis brewery.  Not the free tour, but a more in-depth (read: $25) tour.  While it took you on some of the main areas of the free tour, it also took you in more behind-the-scenes type areas, including the holding tanks filled with beer.  A single tank is fresh beer, sitting in the holding tank no more than 24 hours before it's poured into bottles/cans/kegs.  The tanks are in a 36 degree room, and thus the beer is chilled to 36 degrees.  We were able to taste the Budweiser straight from the holding tank. I had 3 glasses.  I think I was buzzed that quick from it.

Coors:  Coors Original (or Coors Banquet, as it prefers to be called) isn't a bad beer either.  Way better than Coors Water Light.

BTW, for you Coors haters:  If you ever had a Blue Moon, you had a Coors product.  There's a reason why Coors prefers you don't know that!

Radio Shack, Pathmark, Kmart, and Sears.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 03, 2015, 12:31:30 PMBTW, for you Coors haters:  If you ever had a Blue Moon, you had a Coors product.  There's a reason why Coors prefers you don't know that!

Likewise the Redhook/Widmer company doesn't advertise the fact that it is one third owned by Anheuser-Busch, nor does the suddenly ubiquitous Goose Island advertise that is wholly owned by Anheuser-Busch.

The big brewing companies understand where the market is, and are buying their way into the profits that they are losing to small brewers at a steady rate.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 02, 2015, 03:36:25 PM

Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2015, 08:12:14 AM
Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff.   

Look how cranky the Budweisers of the world make people.  Let that be a lesson, kids.

The rant above is about as sensical as complaining that white bread should be good enough for people and anyone eating other kinds is doing it for appearances.

Busch et al. did get one thing right—after Prohibition they locked down one inoffensive style as the definition of "beer," and duped a public with few choices into embracing this marketing plan.  I bet they didn't think they'd dupe people into defending it, too.

It's no surprise that homebrewing was essentially banned, lest people figure out what they were missing, and when the restriction was lifted, a world of Bud-brewers didn't emerge, but rather a renaissance of old traditional styles the big boys couldn't be bothered with anymore.

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

I just watched Smoky & the Bandit last night again.  Can't imagine Coors being in such  high demand these days.

Quote from: texaskdog on March 04, 2015, 10:18:43 AM
I just watched Smoky & the Bandit last night again.  Can't imagine Coors being in such  high demand these days.

The boys are thirsty in Atlanta and there's beer in Texarkana!

Coors was in demand because it wasn't available in the eastern half of the country.

It's on a completely different scale, but the concept of "white whales" is quite prevalent in the craft beer scene in recent times. People want the beers they can't get, despite the presence of countless great, readily available craft beers in most regions of the country.

Maybe the beer part of this discussion should be merged with the beer/brewery thread?

Amazed that Speedway (petroleum) is still around as back in the 90's they closed their gas stations in Florida with some being taken over by Sunoco to bring them to the south.

Now they just purchased Hess and are the biggest retailer for gasoline in the country and opening again here in Orlando.

Quote from: roadman65 on March 04, 2015, 10:56:20 AM
Amazed that Speedway (petroleum) is still around as back in the 90's they closed their gas stations in Florida with some being taken over by Sunoco to bring them to the south.

Now they just purchased Hess and are the biggest retailer for gasoline in the country and opening again here in Orlando.

That seems to have been just exiting a market.  Around here, Speedway has been ubiquitous for a long time.  And they're usually the first mother fuckers (and that's not quite strong enough, IMHO) to raise prices.

Quote from: spooky on March 04, 2015, 10:27:17 AM

Quote from: texaskdog on March 04, 2015, 10:18:43 AM
I just watched Smoky & the Bandit last night again.  Can't imagine Coors being in such  high demand these days.

The boys are thirsty in Atlanta and there's beer in Texarkana!

Coors was in demand because it wasn't available in the eastern half of the country.

It's on a completely different scale, but the concept of "white whales" is quite prevalent in the craft beer scene in recent times. People want the beers they can't get, despite the presence of countless great, readily available craft beers in most regions of the country.

Maybe the beer part of this discussion should be merged with the beer/brewery thread?

Heck, tell someone there is some craft beer that they can't get in their part of the country and they'll be dying to have one. 

I don't normally like beers like Coors, Bud, or Bud Light, but they have their place sometimes. If it's 100°F or more and I've been outside, all that really matters is that the beer is cold. During the summer I spent working in Alabama, Bud Light hit the spot quite nicely after golf.

But nowadays, there are other mass-market beers that are considerably better that pretty much eliminate the need to drink stuff like Bud. Yuengling is one example–it's not my favorite, but I'll choose it over Bud or Bud Light every time if those are the only options.

Now, the WEIRDEST beer purchase I ever saw was when I was at a football game at the old Orange Bowl in Miami with some friends in November 2005. The beer vendors had 12-ounce Miller Lites for $5 each; they also had 24-ounce Heinekens and Presidentes for $10 each. Seems simple enough to me: You buy the Heineken. One of my friends from Danville bought two Miller Lites. Reason? "$10 is too much to pay for one beer."  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Quote from: Brandon on March 04, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
That seems to have been just exiting a market.  Around here, Speedway has been ubiquitous for a long time.  And they're usually the first mother fuckers (and that's not quite strong enough, IMHO) to raise prices.

Funny that you mention that. When I lived in the Chicagoland area (I moved in 1991) I had never seen a Speedway other than on trips south.


As for the raising (and slow to lower) gas prices its really bad here in my town. One family owns most of the gas stations regardless of brand  in my county and they jack up the price 10 cents every time a mouse farts anywhere near an oil producing country and only drops it 2 to 3 cents when everyone else drops 10 cents. They eventually get down to the level everyone else is, usually a week to 10 days later. I remember when Hurricane Ike was poised to make landfall in Texas (meaning it hadn't gotten there yet) a few years back and the bastages jacked the prices up 80 cents. People finally had enough and outed them to the AG's office and they ended up getting a pretty decent fine for it.

The first Speedway I remember seeing as a kid was in Metro Detroit (Livonia) in the mid-late 70s.  Soon after they started sprouting up in Northern Ohio, and were one of the first to use flip-matrix (?) price signs on their tall signs near interstate exits.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2015, 03:30:54 PM
Now, the WEIRDEST beer purchase I ever saw was when I was at a football game at the old Orange Bowl in Miami with some friends in November 2005. The beer vendors had 12-ounce Miller Lites for $5 each; they also had 24-ounce Heinekens and Presidentes for $10 each. Seems simple enough to me: You buy the Heineken. One of my friends from Danville bought two Miller Lites. Reason? "$10 is too much to pay for one beer."  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Well, that is true, but of course $10 is also too much to pay for two Miller Lites, so your friend's argument holds no water. (Though after his purchase, each of his hands did. Ba-zing!)

Getting way off track now, I went to Yankee Stadium and realized why I never became a fan of the team: the beer offerings there are completely Anheuser-Busch (including Goose Island as their craft offering). You can't even get so much as a Brooklyn Lager, let alone a Bronx Pale Ale (or anything else from their home borough). If you were suddenly transported to the stadium unbeknownst, the only way you'd even suspect you were in NYC might possibly be Nathan's hot dogs.

Too bad Whataburger could not come back to the Orlando market like Speedway has.  They were good during their brief tenor here, and I always like them in Texas and Louisiana.  In fact along with Jack In The Box, when ever I am out that way I always patronize both outlets just as I do White Castles when I visit New Jersey.

http://kalw.org/post/city-visions-future-bay-area-independent-bookstores


I am amazed that small independent bookstores still exist. I am one of these people that buy books from Barnes and Noble, Amazon and my College bookstore. Or check library books in my city.

Quote from: bing101 on March 05, 2015, 03:13:03 PM
http://kalw.org/post/city-visions-future-bay-area-independent-bookstores


I am amazed that small independent bookstores still exist. I am one of these people that buy books from Barnes and Noble, Amazon and my College bookstore. Or check library books in my city.

Ten years ago, when this area flush with bookstores was hemorrhaging them rapidly, some folks went and opened a new one near here.  Not only was I wrong in betting they'd only last six months, but I buy most of my new books from them.

Krystal - This is more a personal choice, since it seems lots of folks like it...but I detect pablum between tiny bits of cloth disguised as buns.

I have often wondered how GFS in Orlando stays open as his store is always empty.

Then the Pizza Hut on OBT across from Florida Mall always has an empty parking lot.  Considering Pizza Huts downsized their stores back in the late 90's including closing them in Houma, LA completely, and other areas while reducing them in our area, that this would be one of the next one's to go.

I have seen other Pizza Huts with more cars than this one get the ax during the downsizing era.

Quote from: roadman65 on March 06, 2015, 12:31:07 AM
Then the Pizza Hut on OBT across from Florida Mall always has an empty parking lot.  Considering Pizza Huts downsized their stores back in the late 90's including closing them in Houma, LA completely, and other areas while reducing them in our area, that this would be one of the next one's to go.

I have seen other Pizza Huts with more cars than this one get the ax during the downsizing era.

If I am not mistaken the franchisee of the Pizza Hut's in your area is the same group that now owns the stores here in the eastern NC. My wife and I used to work for a delivery unit here (which is only a mile away from another traditional sit down unit) as a second job for years, and the franchisee in Rocky Mount NC sold out to a larger group that is run out of Central Florida while my wife was still working there. She quit when we got rid of our beaters that we used as delivery vehicles, but she used to always come home and complain about the new owners being pricks and not very efficient either so if they are the same group, then I believe it.