There are still a lot of old, Prohibition era "blue laws" as they're often called on the books in many states.
What are some of the stricter or odd liquor laws you've encountered in your travels?
Two stand out to me, and maybe it's culture shock coming from California where it's pretty easy to find liquor at anytime.
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
Louisiana - For being in the south, they seem a bit more relaxed, evidenced by the drive through daquiri establishments and liquor stores I saw. Maybe this is just rumor, but I heard a PASSENGER is allowed an open container, but obviously a driver they frown upon.
I worked in Montgomery, Alabama, during the summer of 1997 and I was dismayed when I discovered I could not buy beer at the supermarket on Sunday. There was nothing anywhere in the store to indicate this. I only discovered it when I brought a six-pack to the checkout and the cashier was incredulous I had picked up beer. I was incredulous right back. I'd never heard of such a thing. (The liquor stores at home in Virginia were closed on Sunday back then, but that was different because it wasn't unusual for stores to be closed on Sunday.)
Here's one requiring caution: Virginia state law does not prohibit a passenger from consuming alcohol while riding in a motor vehicle. The driver may not do the same, of course. But there is a rebuttable presumption the driver has violated the law if there is an open container anywhere in the passenger section of the car, any of the beverage in said container has been removed, and anything the driver says or does suggests he has been drinking at any time. This means you can be convicted of drinking while driving even if your BAC doesn't exceed the .08 threshold and even if you only consumed something earlier. For example, you're at a restaurant having wine with dinner and you don't want to finish the bottle. Virginia law lets you stick the cork in the bottle and take it home with you. If you put it in the backseat and a cop stops you for something, you may be in a lot of trouble if he sees that bottle. Always put the bottle in the trunk to avoid the issue. Same principle applies if, say, you were out fishing or you were at a football tailgate and you didn't have a place to dispose of your empty beer bottles. Put the empty bottles in the trunk, never in the passenger area.
Tennessee. Could not buy alcohol on July 4.
Monmouth OR is a dry town. For that matter so is Lynchburg TN, home of Jack Daniels. Go figure...LOL!
Rick
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 19, 2015, 01:57:07 PM
I worked in Montgomery, Alabama, during the summer of 1997 and I was dismayed when I discovered I could not buy beer at the supermarket on Sunday. There was nothing anywhere in the store to indicate this. I only discovered it when I brought a six-pack to the checkout and the cashier was incredulous I had picked up beer. I was incredulous right back. I'd never heard of such a thing. (The liquor stores at home in Virginia were closed on Sunday back then, but that was different because it wasn't unusual for stores to be closed on Sunday.)
Here's one requiring caution: Virginia state law does not prohibit a passenger from consuming alcohol while riding in a motor vehicle. The driver may not do the same, of course. But there is a rebuttable presumption the driver has violated the law if there is an open container anywhere in the passenger section of the car, any of the beverage in said container has been removed, and anything the driver says or does suggests he has been drinking at any time. This means you can be convicted of drinking while driving even if your BAC doesn't exceed the .08 threshold and even if you only consumed something earlier. For example, you're at a restaurant having wine with dinner and you don't want to finish the bottle. Virginia law lets you stick the cork in the bottle and take it home with you. If you put it in the backseat and a cop stops you for something, you may be in a lot of trouble if he sees that bottle. Always put the bottle in the trunk to avoid the issue. Same principle applies if, say, you were out fishing or you were at a football tailgate and you didn't have a place to dispose of your empty beer bottles. Put the empty bottles in the trunk, never in the passenger area.
That's interesting about Virginia. Reminds me a bit of another piece of Louisiana's laws (or perhaps this too is rumor) that as long as a straw hasn't been put into a cup, it constitutes a closed container. I'm sure there are stipulations that come with that (e.g. if there is not straw and no clear evidence of consumption, etc)
Delaware does permit passengers to drink in the vehicle (there are 5 states total that allow it, and I think we've already touched on 3 of them). This oddity about Delaware is in contrast to their otherwise very strict and limited sale of alcohol otherwise - No alcohol can be sold after 1am, and last call must be made no later than 12:45am (makes for an early evening, especially when you're from nearly every other state that permits later serving hours). All packaged beer/wine/alcohol can only be sold in liquor stores. They used to restrict sales on Sunday, but that no longer exists.
Bergan County, NJ has very wide-ranging Blue Laws. Most stores, including the malls, cannot open on Sunday.
I remember many years ago Ocean City, NJ also had blue laws which prevented most businesses from opening on Sunday. Considering weekends in the summer are the prime time for shops to make money, this had to be a crippling restriction. OCNJ still doesn't allow alcohol whatsoever, including selling of and BYOBs. Yet, their annual 'Night in Venice' practically takes on a Mardi Gras vibe with all the public consumption of alcohol.
PA restricts the sale of alcohol, especially on Sundays and holidays (although Sunday sales have loosened up a bit). Because wine & alcohol is sold thru state stores and is relatively expensive with a relatively limited selection, people tend to flock to the surrounding states to make their purchases.
Wisconsin doesn't allow car dealerships to be open on Sunday, having an affect of casual shoppers looking at the lots on Sunday without a sales representative hounding them at that time.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 02:18:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 19, 2015, 01:57:07 PM
I worked in Montgomery, Alabama, during the summer of 1997 and I was dismayed when I discovered I could not buy beer at the supermarket on Sunday. There was nothing anywhere in the store to indicate this. I only discovered it when I brought a six-pack to the checkout and the cashier was incredulous I had picked up beer. I was incredulous right back. I'd never heard of such a thing. (The liquor stores at home in Virginia were closed on Sunday back then, but that was different because it wasn't unusual for stores to be closed on Sunday.)
Here's one requiring caution: Virginia state law does not prohibit a passenger from consuming alcohol while riding in a motor vehicle. The driver may not do the same, of course. But there is a rebuttable presumption the driver has violated the law if there is an open container anywhere in the passenger section of the car, any of the beverage in said container has been removed, and anything the driver says or does suggests he has been drinking at any time. This means you can be convicted of drinking while driving even if your BAC doesn't exceed the .08 threshold and even if you only consumed something earlier. For example, you're at a restaurant having wine with dinner and you don't want to finish the bottle. Virginia law lets you stick the cork in the bottle and take it home with you. If you put it in the backseat and a cop stops you for something, you may be in a lot of trouble if he sees that bottle. Always put the bottle in the trunk to avoid the issue. Same principle applies if, say, you were out fishing or you were at a football tailgate and you didn't have a place to dispose of your empty beer bottles. Put the empty bottles in the trunk, never in the passenger area.
That's interesting about Virginia. Reminds me a bit of another piece of Louisiana's laws (or perhaps this too is rumor) that as long as a straw hasn't been put into a cup, it constitutes a closed container. I'm sure there are stipulations that come with that (e.g. if there is not straw and no clear evidence of consumption, etc)
Heh, this discussion reminded me of the WINE GLASS TRAVEL MUGS one of our relatives in Florida gave us one Christmas. She sells Pampered Chef stuff and I guess she got these through them. My initial reaction was to wonder what the heck I'd ever use these for, given that I can't very well use one while I'm driving, but this discussion of Virginia's open container law prompts me to realize the passenger could use one to drink wine in the car as long as the driver hasn't consumed any alcohol!
(This picture was taken last year on the Auto Train, where these things are perfect because the train bounces around. We also use them when we eat outside on the deck because the lids help keep bugs away from the wine.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FFloridaJune2014988_zpsab0c6a9d.jpg&hash=1f41b9b5b7d2f87ff2dc422a96f596b69bcccd8a)
LMAO! Those are awesome.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2015, 02:26:50 PMBergan County, NJ has very wide-ranging Blue Laws. Most stores, including the malls, cannot open on Sunday.
I'm not sure I would say that Bergen's blue laws are wide-ranging. It is true that businesses are not supposed to sell nonperishable items on Sundays. This is very loosely enforced, and is generally left up to the discretion of individual towns. The Borough of Paramus is famous for its strict enforcement of this rule. I recall in the days before Garden State Plaza was enclosed, the garden shop would be open on Sundays, and nothing else. I also recall Valley Fair, a department store with a sizable grocery line, roping off prohibited areas on Sunday.
QuoteI remember many years ago Ocean City, NJ also had blue laws which prevented most businesses from opening on Sunday. Considering weekends in the summer are the prime time for shops to make money, this had to be a crippling restriction. OCNJ still doesn't allow alcohol whatsoever, including selling of and BYOBs. Yet, their annual 'Night in Venice' practically takes on a Mardi Gras vibe with all the public consumption of alcohol.
Ocean City, I've been told, kept that rule because it made it an attractive destination for family vacation business. Scratch the surface of morality and sometimes it's green underneath.
Ocean Grove was much more notorious in this regard. Originally a Methodist tent camp, it even banned bicycling on Sundays into the 1980s.
Massachusetts is often notorious for its puritanical blue laws, but most of those have been repealed or are simply not enforced. The best-known ones now still pertain to alcohol. There are no drink specials allowed here for a duration of less than one week, which effectively bans happy hours or discount drink nights. It was only in 2004 that Massachusetts allowed alcohol sales on Sundays. Ironically, it was teetotaler Mitt Romney in office when this change occurred. Alcohol retail sales are still prohibited on many major holidays.
New Year's 2001/2 in Batopilas, Chihuahua. We were told that the municipality (county) was a dry one, except at New Year's. So everyone flocked into town then to drink. At midnight, the Catholic church rang its bell for the New Year's mass. The band stopped playing, the people stopped dancing in the square, and the whole town went into the sanctuary. Probably one out of every three guys walking around behind the seats was drunk.
the entire state of indiana every sunday
Most of North Jersey used to have them when I was growing up. Two Guys used to rope off the departments that sold the items that were not permitted such as clothing. The rest of the store was open and I remember how weird it looked. Even Woodbridge Center, Menlo Park Mall (except Pathmark and Arcadia Gardens), and Livingston Mall were not open Sundays up until the early 80's.
In fact the traffic signals used to flash yellow on South Orange Avenue at the entrance to the mall each Sunday because their was no reason to operate the signals as the detector loops were not yet used in signaling for New Jersey back then.
I do remember heading to Quaker Bridge Mall near Trenton that had no such laws and stores were all open on Sunday's. I also remember when liquor stores in NJ were closed on Sundays as well.
Now Bergen County, NJ is the only place I know of that keeps Sunday shopping from happening.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 19, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
Ocean City, I've been told, kept that rule because it made it an attractive destination for family vacation business. Scratch the surface of morality and sometimes it's green underneath.
There was a vote a few years back to permit the sale and/or permission to allow BYOBs. It failed to pass.
In South Carolina as of 2008, when I moved out of the state, I was not permitted to open my store before 1:30 on Sunday. Even the local Walmarts roped off certain areas of the store containing items forbidden for sale. The law was complex and weird. Although I can't remember every detail, men's socks were allowed but pantyhose was not. A locality could opt out by official resolution (which my county did very conveniently each December) and certain counties (read: tourist areas) were automatically exempt. That last bit lead to a mall in Columbia having a problem...the county line ran through the middle of the mall, so half could open early, half could not! Another Sunday-related one was any employee wanting time off work for church services was allowed that time plus one hour before and after.
Alcohol related: no sales on Sunday, period. Again, I believe this was waived in more popular counties. No package liquor sales after 6pm, but beer could be sold 24 hours the other six days. No sales on Election Day (I think this one was recently repealed.) Right before we moved out the use of mini bottles in bars to pour liquor was ended; that year Jan. 1 was on a Sunday so it was a convenient time for them to retrain the bartenders for pouring out of a proper bottle.
Until Georgia ended its ban on Sunday sales it was possible to go to Applebee's and get shitfaced on beer and drive home, but illegal to buy in a store and take it home to do the deed.
Edit: does Indiana still have the weird stuff like not being able to buy cold beer at a grocery store and no milk sales at liquor stores, and something about the bar portion of a restaurant being separate from the rest?
Correct about Indiana not being able to get cold beer at a grocery store or a convenience store. I still get curious when I see cold beer at a gas station when I go out of state. And of course there's the whole Sunday thing....
In Michigan until a few years ago, alcohol sales on Sundays were prohibited before noon. At one point, the law was changed to make that noon Eastern Time statewide, even though the four counties that border Wisconsin are on Central Time. (The change allowed those counties to start selling alcohol on Sundays at 11 local time, the same as Wisconsin, and thus not lose out on sales.) Then in 2010, the state expanded Sunday sales to the same hours as the rest of the week. Some cities opted out of the looser restrictions though, as noted below. I recall that Sunday sales required the purchase of a permit connected to the main liquor license, so in theory even if a city didn't ban alcohol sales, a specific store might not be allowed to sell because they didn't purchase the extra permission to do so.
From the apartment I had in the city of Wyoming, the Meijer in Grandville was the closest to me. Grandville banned Sunday alcohol sales completely, so if we wanted anything, we had to drive to a different store in Wyoming or Grand Rapids.
As for car sales, Michigan bans Sunday sales in counties with a population of 130,000 or more. Those dealership owners who observe the Sabbath from Friday sundown until Saturday sundown may sell on Sunday. I've never seen any dealers in the other counties open on Sundays even though they're allowed the option.
Michigan used to have some Sunday restrictions on hunting in certain counties until 2003.
Oxford, Mississippi used to be completely dry on Sundays (surrounding Lafayette County apparently forbids beer sales, but liquor and wine are OK... go figure); they finally repealed that in 2013.
Artificially cold beer sales at convenience/grocery stores were forbidden too; one story (perhaps apocryphal) is that once upon a time, a relative of the mayor owned the biggest ice seller in town. Another story is that they wanted to discourage drunk driving, since MS lacked an open container law. Some rather clever retailers got around the rule somewhat by either (a) cranking the AC in the summer or (b) operating outdoors in the winter.
Further from home: walked to Mexico with some friends the day before their 2009 federal election, found out about la ley seca, turned around and walked back to the States. :)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2015, 02:26:50 PM
PA restricts the sale of alcohol, especially on Sundays and holidays (although Sunday sales have loosened up a bit). Because wine & alcohol is sold thru state stores and is relatively expensive with a relatively limited selection, people tend to flock to the surrounding states to make their purchases.
They do open on Sundays now-my brother can attest to that (he's worked with the PLCB for over 35 years and is retiring this summer to get ahead of the privatization wave). And as far as 'limited selection', apparently you've never gotten hold of their catalogs (which are free)...and if it isn't in the catalog, they'll move heaven and earth to get it.
Now there are areas of the Florida Panhandle that are dry on Sundays...however, in the town I stayed in during the 70's (and visiting through the 80's), there was one individual that would sell you beer and booze on Sunday "under the table"...so if you were thirsty, that's where you went. Of course he got busted...and he kept re-opening, and folks kept going. He passed away many years ago and the place is now closed.
In my youth, Lexington, Ky. did not permit department stores or other general merchandise stores to be open on Sundays. People from Lexington would flock to Richmond or Winchester, neither of which had such a prohibition.
In terms of alcohol sales, Kentucky still has local option laws that provide a wide variety of places where alcohol (and what types of alcohol) can be sold. In some places, only towns (like Irvine in Estill County) are wet, in other places, the entire county is wet. I happen to live in a dry county and I can remember at least two local option elections in which the majority voted to stay dry.
I still don't understand Pennsylvania's laws regarding beer sales. I was astonished to walk into a Walmart in suburban Pittsburgh a few years ago and see no beer for sale. You can buy beer at a bar to take home, but not at a Walmart-type store or at a convenience store.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
There are still a lot of old, Prohibition era "blue laws" as they're often called on the books in many states.
What are some of the stricter or odd liquor laws you've encountered in your travels?
Two stand out to me, and maybe it's culture shock coming from California where it's pretty easy to find liquor at anytime.
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
Louisiana - For being in the south, they seem a bit more relaxed, evidenced by the drive through daquiri establishments and liquor stores I saw. Maybe this is just rumor, but I heard a PASSENGER is allowed an open container, but obviously a driver they frown upon.
Prior to 2009, Utah had really archaic laws related to bars as well. Bars were illegal, they were considered "private clubs" and you had to pay a membership fee in order to be able to enter them to drink, making it kind of a pain for out of towners.
But yeah, you still can only buy 3.2 beer in gas stations and things and have to go to the state store to get anything stronger.
Wyoming had what I always thought were odd liquor laws- no beer or anything in gas stations or grocery stores. The liquor store had to be in a separate facility, so if Albertson's sold liquor it would be in a separate room next door. Drive-thru liquor stores were totally legal though, and there is still no statewide open container law in Wyoming, though most municipalities have adopted open container laws.
Minnesota doesn't allow car sales or liquor store sales on Sundays either. You can still buy shit beer at grocery stores and gas stations after noon on Sunday though.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2015, 02:26:50 PM
Delaware does permit passengers to drink in the vehicle (there are 5 states total that allow it, and I think we've already touched on 3 of them). This oddity about Delaware is in contrast to their otherwise very strict and limited sale of alcohol otherwise - No alcohol can be sold after 1am, and last call must be made no later than 12:45am (makes for an early evening, especially when you're from nearly every other state that permits later serving hours). All packaged beer/wine/alcohol can only be sold in liquor stores. They used to restrict sales on Sunday, but that no longer exists.
I remember the Sunday restriction in Delaware. Elkton, MD (State Line Liquors comes to mind) was close enough to offset it if you wanted beer for football or wrestling pay-per-view get togethers.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 19, 2015, 07:33:22 PM
I still don't understand Pennsylvania's laws regarding beer sales. I was astonished to walk into a Walmart in suburban Pittsburgh a few years ago and see no beer for sale. You can buy beer at a bar to take home, but not at a Walmart-type store or at a convenience store.
Regarding PA:
In general, 6 packs can only be sold by retailers that have dining areas. Yes, that's right: A place where one normally would sit down and drink a beer in normal states is where they must go to purchase a 6 pack in PA. If you want a case of beer, you have to go to a beer distributer. But, you can only buy cases at distributers...you can't buy a 6 pack there.
6 packs tend to be unusually expensive in PA. Cases are fairly reasonably priced.
Also, you are limited to the number of 6 packs you can buy...you can only purchase 2 at a time. They may have 12 packs, but it's fairly rare. If you want more than that, your buddies have to come with you...or you have to go to a distributer.
Where does this other quantities of beer, such as 18 packs? Due to the laws, they can't be sold in PA!
Note: In a few other states, including Delaware, you can't walk into a Walmart and buy beer either. NJ is generally that way - there are rare cases where you can walk into a supermarket and purchase beer/wine/liquor amongst the other goods, but they're few and far in between. For the most part, you have to go to a liquor store to purchase beer/wine/liquor. Ironically, the selection of alcohol in NJ liquor stores is better than what you will find in Walmart, because more space can be dedicated to craft brews and liquors that tend to be slower sellers, or sold in a store because the owner/manager knows their locals and clientile.
In the early '80s, Campbell County, Ky., enacted a ban on selling beer and many other common items on Sundays. That's their idea of "limited government." Previously it was legal. This ban was passed by local government officials - not a voter-approved referendum.
The ban was finally repealed in the mid-2000s.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 19, 2015, 07:33:22 PM
In terms of alcohol sales, Kentucky still has local option laws that provide a wide variety of places where alcohol (and what types of alcohol) can be sold.
That is still the case in Columbus as well, alcohol sales and Sunday sales are drilled down to the voting precinct. I just last November had to vote whether to allow a new bar to allow Sunday spiritous liquor sales. In addition, some neighborhoods in Columbus have voted themselves dry to discourage crime and loitering.
Also, there was a time - I think it was in the '80s/'90s - when NKU got county officials to refuse to issue new alcohol licenses within several miles of the university. You couldn't build a new bar in the area. I'm not sure about stores, though I remember one store having a terrible time getting a license just to sell beer. Yet another store up the street was allowed to sell beer.
That's because Campbell County is corrupt and selectively enforces laws. This also explains why the county refused to file charges against a neo-Nazi whose daddy was a bank president.
Also, sometime in the 1990s/2000s, one of the suburban townships in Ohio near Cincinnati went dry in an effort to force a strip club to close down. As a result, a Chinese immigrant who owned a restaurant in that township that served alcohol had to close down. Like the ban in Campbell County, this was enacted by officials, not a referendum.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
That was still the case when I was there last year.
Even dumber is they limit the alcohol content of
draft beer in bars the same way. Really wusses up the craft beer scene in that state.
I was in Poland the same week Pope JP2 was visiting the country (kind of a big deal, his being Polish and all). While he was in the country, there was a nationwide alcohol ban. I think the first and last days we were there were the only ones we could buy alcohol.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
That was still the case when I was there last year.
Even dumber is they limit the alcohol content of draft beer in bars the same way. Really wusses up the craft beer scene in that state.
The funny thing is, Uinta makes a delicious 6-7% IPA, Hop Nosh (renamed from "Hop Notch" to avoid confusion with Notch Brewing). I don't know if it's sold there or what, but it sure is abundant here.
I remember when Wal-Mart was closed on Sunday. Later, they would open but have sections roped off.
In Texas, 0.5% drinks are both beer and not beer. You can sell it in dry counties, but only during beer-selling hours.
Car dealers cannot be open both Saturday and Sunday (this may have been repealed; there was a proposal but I don't know if it passed). A DFW area dealer years back advertised "Closed Saturday, Open Sunday" with emphasis on "Open Sunday" in the television commercials. My guess is that they wanted to be one of a few dealers open Sundays.
I remember back in the 80s when non-food stores were closed on Sundays. Supermarkets and convenience stores could be open, but couldn't sell most non-food items. These days beer and wine can be sold Sundays after noon, but I don't remember if Sunday sales were banned years ago, or if they were considered food products allowed for sale.
Connecticut only within the last few years legalized alcohol sales on Sunday. It is still illegal to sell alcohol after 8 PM any day.
Meanwhile in New York beer can be sold 24/7.
Casinos are illegal in Oklahoma. Problem with that is that there are lots of Native American tribes in Oklahoma, and the no-casino law doesn't apply to them. So we have this law on the books, presumably to promote anti-gambling morality, and still have casinos strewn all over the place and people gambling anyway. It's pretty entertaining if you're into absurdity.
The effect of it is that a white guy (or a Chinese guy, or whatever) can't start his own casino to compete with the tribal casinos, nor can a national chain like Harrah's or Station Casinos enter the market, and the tribes have monopolies over the areas that fall in their tribal jurisdiction. If you don't like the casinos in your area you might have to drive several hours to reach a competing tribe's casino.
Back in June 2000, I took a four day road trip involving a big loop covering the Great Basin and the Pacific Northwest. The first leg of the trip involved taking I-80 from Sacramento to Salt Lake City. After checking into my hotel room near the Salt Lake Airport, I decided to go to the Phillips 66 across the street to pick up a six pack of beer. I was amazed to find Leinenkugel (this was before it was acquired by budweiser), and felt like I struck gold.
I bought my Leinenkugel back to my hotel room, filled the sink with ice cubes, iced the beer down and ordered in dinner from room service. After four beers and 90 minutes, I realized that I wasn't experiencing "That Perfect Four-Beer Buzz." I looked at the label on the Leinenkugel, and saw the "Alcohol 3.2 Percent by Volume" and remembered I was in Utah. I finished the other two beers and went to bed with a nice "Three Beer Buzz-ette."
I believe that any beer sold in Utah having more than 3.2 percent ABV has to be labeled as "STRONG" and can only be purchased from state-run liquor stores. That law has probably changed with the rise of microbreweries over the past few decades. I've had some wonderful microbrews from Utah that were in excess of 5.0 percent in recent years.
On another occasion, I was assisting my brother-in-law move the last of of his belongings from McKinney, TX to California back in early September 2001. We had packed everything into the moving van on a Friday morning, and then drove to some town west of Abeline along I-20. We were preparing to check into a motel, when my brother-in-law asked the desk clerk where the nearest liquor store was. The clerk replied that they were in a dry county, and that we would have to cross into the next county to get any alcohol.
My brother in law told the clerk to cancel the room, and we proceeded to the next county for lodging and cold beers.
It's kind of fun to go to other parts of the country to experience things you don't find close to home due to some odd law. I still think its kind of cool to go to Oregon and have someone pump your gas. I almost feel as though I should give the person who filled up my tank a tip or something !!! : )
Clay County Florida used to restrict Sunday sales until after 2pm. There was a referendum a couple years ago that changed Sunday sales to match other days. But you still can't buy beer of Christmas because it Jesus' birthday. It is the land of Southern Baptists who of course are not supposed to drink alcohol. I was raised Episcopalian so we don't have such restrictions, we even get wine with Communion every Sunday. So I resent the majority Baptist county commission imposing their rules on me.
My parents are involved in political stuff and my mom had a discussion with one of the commissioners. He said it wasn't to conform to the Baptist view but to stop drunk driving. That's bullshit, if people are drunk and want booze they just drive to Jacksonville
It seems that a lot of local and state government officials forget that the United States Constitution requires the separation of church and state. Having blue laws based on religion blatantly violates the constitution.
Also, the blue laws are just ridiculously stupid, make no sense, and serve no purpose.
They also cause me to lose respect for the government in general. If the government has no respect for it's own laws, then why should I?
This same argument could also be applied to agencies that blatantly disregard the MUTCD.
This is one of the big reasons that I find bible bangers annoying. They claim to be such good people, but in reality many are buttholes.
I personally don't drink because I feel that it's bad for individuals as well as society as a whole. However, if alcohol's gonna be legal, then people shouldn't be restricted on when they can buy it just because of a few people's selfish stupid religious hang-ups.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 19, 2015, 10:52:39 PM
Casinos are illegal in Oklahoma. Problem with that is that there are lots of Native American tribes in Oklahoma, and the no-casino law doesn't apply to them. So we have this law on the books, presumably to promote anti-gambling morality, and still have casinos strewn all over the place and people gambling anyway. It's pretty entertaining if you're into absurdity.
I remember visiting my tribal headquarters in Durant, and thought it was rather strange that there was this large hotel in basically the middle of nowhere. Then, I remembered: tribal land is exempt(?) from gambling laws.
Are there any casinos in Oklahoma that are not attached to a native tribe? Here in Seattle, there are a ton of Indian casinos, but there's also a lot of casinos that are independent chains not inherently related to any tribes.
@ DUKE87: Actually, Connecticut sales now end at 9 pm. I believe the sales are 10 am to 5 pm on Sundays. Usually, alcohol isn't sold on legal holidays (i.e. Memorial Day).
P.S. The package store a block from my house is still closed on Sundays. They're only open until 9 PM from Thursday to Saturday.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 20, 2015, 02:51:37 AM
Are there any casinos in Oklahoma that are not attached to a native tribe? Here in Seattle, there are a ton of Indian casinos, but there's also a lot of casinos that are independent chains not inherently related to any tribes.
At least one, sort of–Remington Park in Oklahoma City, which is primarily a horse-racing facility that has a casino on the grounds. It was initially owned by a non-tribal entity, but it ran into financial trouble and was bought out by a corporation that, in turn, is owned by the Chickasaw Nation. Gaming is regulated by the state of Oklahoma, unlike the other Chickasaw casinos, which are regulated by the Chickasaw Nation Office of the Gaming Commissioner (CNOGC), an organ of the tribal government.
There might be others, but I'm not aware of them.
In Texas, it's technically illegal to promote or sell porn or sex toys, and having 6 or more toys is considered possession with intent to promote. The jokes about experiencing this "first hand" write themselves.
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2015, 09:39:42 PM
I was in Poland the same week Pope JP2 was visiting the country (kind of a big deal, his being Polish and all). While he was in the country, there was a nationwide alcohol ban. I think the first and last days we were there were the only ones we could buy alcohol.
The Pope will be visiting Philly later this year. You can bet there will be no ban on alcohol nationwide, citywide, or locally.
I don't think gambling laws are considered blue laws, unless they only apply on Sundays.
Quote from: Brian556 on February 20, 2015, 01:17:02 AM
It seems that a lot of local and state government officials forget that the United States Constitution requires the separation of church and state. Having blue laws based on religion blatantly violates the constitution.
Also, the blue laws are just ridiculously stupid, make no sense, and serve no purpose.
....
The Supreme Court has said you're wrong on the constitutional aspect for several reasons. As far as requiring businesses to be closed, states claimed the laws ensured workers got a day off. The Court held that was enough of a reason to allow them to be upheld. The reason doesn't have to be one with which you agree or one you think makes sense–a legitimate secular reason was deemed to be enough. The fact that there may also be a religious motivation is irrelevant if there's an acceptable non-religious reason.
Alcohol sales are a unique matter due to the Twenty-First Amendment. States have an unusual amount of authority (although it's not unlimited) over that particular form of commerce. The amendment pretty much allows a state to say no sales on Sunday, or Friday, or whenever, or even to prohibit sales altogether (which is also how dry counties are allowed). It's a vestige of compromises made to get Prohibition repealed. Note the Twenty-First Amendment says you can't import alcohol into a state for beverage purposes in violation of the state's laws. That trumps, for example, the Interstate Commerce Clause giving Congress authority over interstate commerce–Virginia can make it illegal for you to bring in more than a gallon of liquor (never mind that liquor isn't sold by the "gallon") and Congress can't directly overrule that (hence why for the drinking age they tied it to highway funding–states do not have a right to receive federal highway funding). Certain other principles trump the Twenty-First Amendment, though–the Dormant Commerce Clause is an example, so a state cannot allow an in-state winery to ship directly to in-state customers but prohibit out-of-state wineries from shipping to the same customers (but they can prohibit all shipping if they want as long as they treat them all the same).
Alcoholic beverage law is really complex in the United States.
(BTW, I think preemptive bans on sales on Sunday, or any other day, are silly too. Of course, I have no problem with the ABC store being open only during certain hours regardless of whether it's inconvenient for someone. The ABC store is open for fewer hours on Sunday than on other days. Doesn't bother me. Most businesses aren't open 24/7 and that probably inconveniences someone, but who cares? Inconvenience at some point is a fact of life.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2015, 07:58:04 AM
...the Dormant Commerce Clause is an example, so a state cannot allow an in-state winery to ship directly to in-state customers but prohibit out-of-state wineries from shipping to the same customers (but they can prohibit all shipping if they want as long as they treat them all the same).
When NJ wanted to allow in-state wineries to ship to customers, they got tripped up on this. I forgot the exact nature of the issue or what happened (no doubt someone sued someone), but in the end the law was modified so both in-state and out-of-state wineries can ship to residents within NJ.
While some states have dry counties, NJ permits dry municipalities.
Now, this is where it gets interesting: The law now permits local wineries to sell their wines in retail establishments without liquor licenses, and that includes allowing for sampling of wines. This INCLUDES stores that are in dry towns! A permit/license is necessary. I was hoping that small restaurants, such as pizzerias or BYOBs that don't have liquor licenses (which in NJ are expensive and hard to come by) would side-step this by allowing wineries to sell their wines in their restaurants, but I haven't seen that occur much.
And speaking of - If a restaurant sells liquor, it's not illegal per state law to bring in your own alcohol. But the individual establishment can ban people from bringing it in. (I think it goes without saying that I would believe every establishment bans it.)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 19, 2015, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
That was still the case when I was there last year.
Even dumber is they limit the alcohol content of draft beer in bars the same way. Really wusses up the craft beer scene in that state.
The funny thing is, Uinta makes a delicious 6-7% IPA, Hop Nosh (renamed from "Hop Notch" to avoid confusion with Notch Brewing). I don't know if it's sold there or what, but it sure is abundant here.
I've seen both Uinta and Epic tapped locally by me, and both are over 6% ABV. Curious if these beers are tapped in Utah, if it's a "light" version.
Virginia allows "corkage," where you bring your own wine to a restaurant. The restaurant will usually charge a fee to open the bottle and serve it (since I've never done this, I have no idea what would happen if you tried to do it yourself; I assume they'd charge the fee anyway). I know of some restaurants that make what I consider to be a reasonable request that you not bring in any wine that appears on their wine list. That's not always an easy matter, of course–the Inn at Little Washington has an 88-page wine list!
Regarding Utah, I echo OCGuy81–I've had some of Epic's beers and I liked some quite a bit (especially Spiral Jetty), so do they have to sell a separate "in-state" version? Or do they just not offer it on tap in Utah?
Blasphemy is illegal in Massachusetts:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section36
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 20, 2015, 09:53:10 AM
Blasphemy is illegal in Massachusetts:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section36
Likely one of those unenforceable laws that remains on the books as a political statement. I suppose if you engaged in that sort of speech in a place and manner where your goal was clearly to incite people, it might (I emphasize "might") be prosecutable as disorderly conduct or some such (recognizing the despicable counterexample of Westboro Baptist Cult).
I read a case once where a court ruled that saying "God damn it" was protected speech but "God damn you" was prosecutable, but I don't remember what the rationale was nor when it was decided.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2015, 09:56:59 AM
I read a case once where a court ruled that saying "God damn it" was protected speech but "God damn you" was prosecutable, but I don't remember what the rationale was nor when it was decided.
"Fighting words".
Quote from: wxfree on February 19, 2015, 10:10:40 PM
Car dealers cannot be open both Saturday and Sunday (this may have been repealed; there was a proposal but I don't know if it passed). A DFW area dealer years back advertised "Closed Saturday, Open Sunday" with emphasis on "Open Sunday" in the television commercials. My guess is that they wanted to be one of a few dealers open Sundays.
Still in effect. You can be open Saturday or Sunday, but not both. The only recent state activity regarding sales has been Tesla trying to get Texas to allow sales of new cars in ways besides a dealership. They've gotten nowhere so far.
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2015, 10:00:08 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2015, 09:56:59 AM
I read a case once where a court ruled that saying "God damn it" was protected speech but "God damn you" was prosecutable, but I don't remember what the rationale was nor when it was decided.
"Fighting words".
That would be a logical theory, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the court cited. I think there may have been something about "God damn it" referring to an inanimate object or circumstances in general as opposed to calling for retribution against a person, but I don't recall for sure. It may have been decided prior to the "fighting words" jurisprudence. If I get a chance this afternoon I'll try to track down that opinion. I don't remember what court it was from, but I can probably formulate some relevant key words for use with legal research software. (I think I saw the case in my First Amendment class back in 1997, but I don't have the casebook anymore.)
Quote from: dfwmapper on February 20, 2015, 05:31:42 AM
In Texas, it's technically illegal to promote or sell porn or sex toys, and having 6 or more toys is considered possession with intent to promote. The jokes about experiencing this "first hand" write themselves.
IIRR, they have to be called "novelties" or "novelty items" (something like that); they can't be openly marketed as what they really are.
Quote from: Concrete Bob on February 19, 2015, 11:00:02 PM
Back in June 2000, I took a four day road trip involving a big loop covering the Great Basin and the Pacific Northwest. The first leg of the trip involved taking I-80 from Sacramento to Salt Lake City. After checking into my hotel room near the Salt Lake Airport, I decided to go to the Phillips 66 across the street to pick up a six pack of beer. I was amazed to find Leinenkugel (this was before it was acquired by budweiser), and felt like I struck gold.
I bought my Leinenkugel back to my hotel room, filled the sink with ice cubes, iced the beer down and ordered in dinner from room service. After four beers and 90 minutes, I realized that I wasn't experiencing "That Perfect Four-Beer Buzz." I looked at the label on the Leinenkugel, and saw the "Alcohol 3.2 Percent by Volume" and remembered I was in Utah. I finished the other two beers and went to bed with a nice "Three Beer Buzz-ette."
I believe that any beer sold in Utah having more than 3.2 percent ABV has to be labeled as "STRONG" and can only be purchased from state-run liquor stores. That law has probably changed with the rise of microbreweries over the past few decades. I've had some wonderful microbrews from Utah that were in excess of 5.0 percent in recent years.
On another occasion, I was assisting my brother-in-law move the last of of his belongings from McKinney, TX to California back in early September 2001. We had packed everything into the moving van on a Friday morning, and then drove to some town west of Abeline along I-20. We were preparing to check into a motel, when my brother-in-law asked the desk clerk where the nearest liquor store was. The clerk replied that they were in a dry county, and that we would have to cross into the next county to get any alcohol.
My brother in law told the clerk to cancel the room, and we proceeded to the next county for lodging and cold beers.
It's kind of fun to go to other parts of the country to experience things you don't find close to home due to some odd law. I still think its kind of cool to go to Oregon and have someone pump your gas. I almost feel as though I should give the person who filled up my tank a tip or something !!! : )
I've gotten in trouble in Oregon before attempting to fill up my car in Medford before making the realization I'd crossed state lines.
Aren't motorcyclists allowed to fill up themselves? And diesel? That always struck me as strange.
Quote from: wxfree on February 19, 2015, 10:10:40 PM
I remember back in the 80s when non-food stores were closed on Sundays. Supermarkets and convenience stores could be open, but couldn't sell most non-food items. These days beer and wine can be sold Sundays after noon, but I don't remember if Sunday sales were banned years ago, or if they were considered food products allowed for sale.
I don't remember hearing of beer/wine bans on Sundays, just the current liquor sales bans.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/20150212-wal-mart-sues-the-state-of-texas-seeks-chance-to-sell-liquor.ece
Walmart, though, is trying to get the state to change its laws about not allowing publicly-traded companies to have package store permits (which would allow them to sell liquor). The company is also challenging the limit of 5 package store permits per retailer.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2015, 10:03:14 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2015, 10:00:08 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2015, 09:56:59 AM
I read a case once where a court ruled that saying "God damn it" was protected speech but "God damn you" was prosecutable, but I don't remember what the rationale was nor when it was decided.
"Fighting words".
That would be a logical theory, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the court cited. I think there may have been something about "God damn it" referring to an inanimate object or circumstances in general as opposed to calling for retribution against a person, but I don't recall for sure. It may have been decided prior to the "fighting words" jurisprudence. If I get a chance this afternoon I'll try to track down that opinion. I don't remember what court it was from, but I can probably formulate some relevant key words for use with legal research software. (I think I saw the case in my First Amendment class back in 1997, but I don't have the casebook anymore.)
I dug around a bit and there are a couple of cases addressing this sort of issue. I don't remember which one I saw before, but the gist of the cases I found focused on profanity not being afforded First Amendment protection as free speech (this is one of those areas of law that has clearly evolved over time) and on the defendant being prosecuted for disturbing the peace.
I just love how the "limited government" types ban alcohol.
Quote from: bandit957 on February 20, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
I just love how the "limited government" types ban alcohol.
Funny story about that, but I'll leave for another discussion. ;)
You can't keep a horse on the second floor of an unsprinkled building in Mass., except in cities:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section86
Some of these "CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER" are rather strangely worded (in addition to being unenforceable):
http://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section18 (no sex outside marriage?)
http://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section34 (apparently refers to sodomy)
http://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section36 (I ain't afraid of no Holy Ghost)
Quote from: bandit957 on February 20, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
I just love how the "limited government" types ban alcohol.
They also are in the forefront of MJ moratoriums and bans in Oregon. Here's a bumpersticker I agree with: LEGALIZE ADULTHOOD!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on February 20, 2015, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on February 20, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
I just love how the "limited government" types ban alcohol.
They also are in the forefront of MJ moratoriums and bans in Oregon. Here's a bumpersticker I agree with: LEGALIZE ADULTHOOD!
Rick
Most limited government type people quickly point to the constitution as to their rights...or at least how they interpret their rights to be. So they definitely want the government in their lives to allow them the rights our government has granted them.
Quote from: txstateends on February 20, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
Quote from: dfwmapper on February 20, 2015, 05:31:42 AM
In Texas, it's technically illegal to promote or sell porn or sex toys, and having 6 or more toys is considered possession with intent to promote. The jokes about experiencing this "first hand" write themselves.
IIRR, they have to be called "novelties" or "novelty items" (something like that); they can't be openly marketed as what they really are.
This was ruled unconstitutional by a federal court, but unruled unconstitutional by a state court that somehow isn't under the federal appeals court jurisdiction. It's confusing. There's a Wikipedia page about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_obscenity_statute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_obscenity_statute)
"The state also argued in a brief that Texas has legitimate "morality based" reasons for the laws, which include "discouraging prurient interests in autonomous sex and the pursuit of sexual gratification unrelated to procreation." "
This wasn't in the 1800s, it was in 2008. Anti-masturbation and anti-recreational sex sentiment survived in Texas law into the 21st Century.
Back on topic, Picayune, MS and Poplarville, MS are wet towns in a dry county, though you can't have anything "heavier" than beer or light spirits in either town.
Another thing of note: local laws on selling alcohol do not apply to military bases in those localities. Plenty of times where I've bought alcohol on Sundays in areas where it was otherwise prohibited, because I bought it on base.
It always struck me as odd that Bible belt locales in Florida, Georgia. Alabama etc have beer in every convenience store and grocery store but NJ with huge catholic populations doesn't not allow beer sales except in liquor stores. When I go back to NJ it is really inconvenient when you just want a six pack or 12 pack or even a single beer having to find a liquor store especially after 10pm
What's interesting too is how the alcohol laws affect the price. I've got friends in Oregon that always stock up at Costco before driving back into Oregon because they tell me it's much cheaper in California.
Ironically, Washington state kicked the state out of the liquor business a few years ago, and prices then actually shot up, thanks to a near 20% tax added as part of the deal. Washingtonians go to Oregon for booze, Oregonians come to California.
I guess we could always go into Mexico. :-)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 19, 2015, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
That was still the case when I was there last year.
Even dumber is they limit the alcohol content of draft beer in bars the same way. Really wusses up the craft beer scene in that state.
The funny thing is, Uinta makes a delicious 6-7% IPA, Hop Nosh (renamed from "Hop Notch" to avoid confusion with Notch Brewing). I don't know if it's sold there or what, but it sure is abundant here.
Ever tried Polygamy Porter?
I am old enough to remember when grocery stores in Maryland could not be open Sundays. That went away sometime in the 1970's.
Maryland is highly variable when it comes to alcohol sales on Sundays. Some counties allow it, some counties do not, and one county (my home county) has no liquor stores at all, only a county-owned system of ABC stores (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DLC/index.html) (not sure there are any others like this in the U.S.).
Convenience stores (7-11, Wawa, Sheetz, Royal Farm and grocery stores) and chain restaurants are allowed one alcohol license per county, with some (relatively rare) exceptions. So most stores cannot carry alcohol, but the one in each county that can makes a pretty hefty profit on same.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2015, 08:56:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 19, 2015, 07:33:22 PM
I still don't understand Pennsylvania's laws regarding beer sales. I was astonished to walk into a Walmart in suburban Pittsburgh a few years ago and see no beer for sale. You can buy beer at a bar to take home, but not at a Walmart-type store or at a convenience store.
Regarding PA:
In general, 6 packs can only be sold by retailers that have dining areas. Yes, that's right: A place where one normally would sit down and drink a beer in normal states is where they must go to purchase a 6 pack in PA. If you want a case of beer, you have to go to a beer distributer. But, you can only buy cases at distributers...you can't buy a 6 pack there.
6 packs tend to be unusually expensive in PA. Cases are fairly reasonably priced.
Also, you are limited to the number of 6 packs you can buy...you can only purchase 2 at a time. They may have 12 packs, but it's fairly rare. If you want more than that, your buddies have to come with you...or you have to go to a distributer.
Where does this other quantities of beer, such as 18 packs? Due to the laws, they can't be sold in PA!
Note: In a few other states, including Delaware, you can't walk into a Walmart and buy beer either. NJ is generally that way - there are rare cases where you can walk into a supermarket and purchase beer/wine/liquor amongst the other goods, but they're few and far in between. For the most part, you have to go to a liquor store to purchase beer/wine/liquor. Ironically, the selection of alcohol in NJ liquor stores is better than what you will find in Walmart, because more space can be dedicated to craft brews and liquors that tend to be slower sellers, or sold in a store because the owner/manager knows their locals and clientile.
Yes, you can buy cases...but ONLY at stores considered "beverage distributors" or "Beer distributors" (been a while since I've been back home in Philly), not in the grocery stores.
EDIT: If you want a keg, this is where you go as well.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 20, 2015, 06:35:35 PM
I am old enough to remember when grocery stores in Maryland could not be open Sundays. That went away sometime in the 1970's.
Maryland is highly variable when it comes to alcohol sales on Sundays. Some counties allow it, some counties do not, and one county (my home county) has no liquor stores at all, only a county-owned system of ABC stores (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DLC/index.html) (not sure there are any others like this in the U.S.).
Convenience stores (7-11, Wawa, Sheetz, Royal Farm and grocery stores) and chain restaurants are allowed one alcohol license per county, with some (relatively rare) exceptions. So most stores cannot carry alcohol, but the one in each county that can makes a pretty hefty profit on same.
Some of those county-owned stores are pretty good stores (the one at Potomac Village comes to mind).
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 20, 2015, 05:13:16 PM
What's interesting too is how the alcohol laws affect the price. I've got friends in Oregon that always stock up at Costco before driving back into Oregon because they tell me it's much cheaper in California.
Ironically, Washington state kicked the state out of the liquor business a few years ago, and prices then actually shot up, thanks to a near 20% tax added as part of the deal. Washingtonians go to Oregon for booze, Oregonians come to California.
I guess we could always go into Mexico. :-)
Yeah the privatization of liquor sales was the worst thing to happen in Washington- the state stores carried a much larger selection of alcohols than Safeway too.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 20, 2015, 06:35:35 PM
I am old enough to remember when grocery stores in Maryland could not be open Sundays. That went away sometime in the 1970's.
Maryland is highly variable when it comes to alcohol sales on Sundays. Some counties allow it, some counties do not, and one county (my home county) has no liquor stores at all, only a county-owned system of ABC stores (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DLC/index.html) (not sure there are any others like this in the U.S.).
Convenience stores (7-11, Wawa, Sheetz, Royal Farm and grocery stores) and chain restaurants are allowed one alcohol license per county, with some (relatively rare) exceptions. So most stores cannot carry alcohol, but the one in each county that can makes a pretty hefty profit on same.
Growing up in South Carolina in the 1970s there were few businesses allowed to open on Sundays. Then it became you could open at 1 p.m. Finally businesses could do what they wanted.
Mapmikey
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 19, 2015, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 19, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Utah - I was visiting Utah, and remember really wanting a good beer to relax with that evening at my hotel. Apparently, and perhaps this has changed, any beer that's more than 4.0% ABV (so basically anything with more alcohol than a Coors or Dud Light) has to be bought in a state run store. Said stores are also closed on Sunday. This was the strictest liquor laws I've encountered.
That was still the case when I was there last year.
Even dumber is they limit the alcohol content of draft beer in bars the same way. Really wusses up the craft beer scene in that state.
The funny thing is, Uinta makes a delicious 6-7% IPA, Hop Nosh (renamed from "Hop Notch" to avoid confusion with Notch Brewing). I don't know if it's sold there or what, but it sure is abundant here.
Utah has a beer-only license, allowing 3.2ABW only, and also full liquor licenses that allow real beer, wine, and liquor. But, those can only be sold in combination with food, and you can't wander off with your drink after ordering (guessing there aren't a lot of dartboards in Utah pubs).
Re: a neo-Nazi not being prosecuted in Campbell County, Ky.
Being a neo-Nazi isn't against the law.
Re: tribal casinos in Oklahoma
Don't the tribes contract with outfits like Harrah's to run the casinos?
Re: sales of Tesla automobiles
The requirement that cars have to be sold by franchised dealers is absurd.
Re: alcohol sales in Mississippi
Froggie, didn't you say once that it is illegal to merely possess alcohol in a dry area there? In Kentucky, it's not illegal to possess or use alcohol in a dry territory unless possession is deemed to be for resale (bootlegging).
I hate trying to quote from three or four posts from two pages back in the thread, because the "Insert Quote" feature only shows a handful of past posts from which to quote.
So here is an interesting question. Who, in the US, do you think has the most relaxed liquor laws?
California seems pretty loose with them. Booze is available from a Circle K to a Bev Mo to Costco.
Though I think Nevada takes too honor. I can't speak for all of Nevada, and maybe my experience is limited to Las Vegas/Clark County, but being able to get booze at any time, in most any place, AND carry around an open container?? A full 180 from places like Utah or the Bible Belt.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 20, 2015, 11:59:00 PM
So here is an interesting question. Who, in the US, do you think has the most relaxed liquor laws?
California seems pretty loose with them. Booze is available from a Circle K to a Bev Mo to Costco.
Though I think Nevada takes too honor. I can't speak for all of Nevada, and maybe my experience is limited to Las Vegas/Clark County, but being able to get booze at any time, in most any place, AND carry around an open container?? A full 180 from places like Utah or the Bible Belt.
Nevada and Louisiana followed by Missouri and Arizona. Nevada has no time restrictions, permits public intoxication statewide, and Las Vegas permits open containers on the strip. They do limit liquor to 160 proof. Louisiana has no statewide hour laws, but most places outside of New Orleans have local laws. Public consumption from non-glass containers is legal in many places. Missouri has limited hours, but extended hours til 3am in parts of KC and St. Louis, and has statewide preemption of local laws that would further restrict things. Arizona limits hours and that's about it (and the hours are 6a-2a 365 days a year, with no Sunday, holiday, or election day bullshit). Arizona will fuck you up on DUIs though, including requiring ignition interlocks. California is pretty open as well, but caps thing at 153 proof, so no Everclear there.
Quote from: corco on February 19, 2015, 07:48:02 PM
Prior to 2009, Utah had really archaic laws related to bars as well. Bars were illegal, they were considered "private clubs" and you had to pay a membership fee in order to be able to enter them to drink, making it kind of a pain for out of towners.
Yeah, that's the first one that occurred to me. In 2004 or so, I took a day trip into SLC from Colorado where I was staying at the time. I thought it would be nice to drop in for a beer somewhere, but I couldn't find any bars: every sign on the street said "private club". I finally went into the bar of a hotel I found, but upon ordering, I found out that it, too was a "private club". But the bartender, being familiar with out-of-towners, explained why that was, and that to order a beer I'd simply need a one-year membership to the club. He signed me up, comped the membership fee (which was only $5 or so) and poured the beer. I saved a box of their matches (you could smoke in public in those days–but then, it' a private club, so who's business is that anyway?) as a memento of the experience.
As for Pennsylvania's weird liquor laws, I've always found them amusingly unique, but never unduly restrictive. Heck, you can drink your face off in the bar until 2am, then walk home with twelve more bottles to continue getting plastered! (The laws have been seeing more loose interpretation lately, but as far as I know it's still impossible to buy an 18-pack of beer in the state.)
Quote from: dfwmapper on February 21, 2015, 04:09:42 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 20, 2015, 11:59:00 PM
Though I think Nevada takes too honor. I can't speak for all of Nevada, and maybe my experience is limited to Las Vegas/Clark County, but being able to get booze at any time, in most any place, AND carry around an open container?? A full 180 from places like Utah or the Bible Belt.
Nevada and Louisiana followed by Missouri and Arizona. Nevada has no time restrictions, permits public intoxication statewide, and Las Vegas permits open containers on the strip.
They've been cracking down though.
The Strip isn't in Las Vegas. Clark County is the governing body over the Strip...and they recently have banned open glass bottles from the Strip. http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/sep/16/glass-bottles-no-longer-allowed-las-vegas-strip/
And on Freemont Street, which is in the actual city of Las Vegas, they have cracked down on all containers other than plastic & paper cups. http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/las-vegas-council-bans-glass-aluminum-liquor-containers-fremont-street-experience
Quote from: jwolfer on February 20, 2015, 04:45:50 PM
It always struck me as odd that Bible belt locales in Florida, Georgia. Alabama etc have beer in every convenience store and grocery store but NJ with huge catholic populations doesn't not allow beer sales except in liquor stores. When I go back to NJ it is really inconvenient when you just want a six pack or 12 pack or even a single beer having to find a liquor store especially after 10pm
To be technical, NJ does allow beers sales in any store as long as they have a license. The laws of the state make seeing alcohol sold in a supermarket a rarity though (offhand, I know of a Wegmens on Rt. 1 near Princeton that sells alcohol throughout the store, and I'm aware of, but haven't been in, other supermarkets and warehouse clubs (Sams Club) that sells it within the store). After 10pm, most liquor stores are closed because it is state law liquor can't be sold after 10pm. However, beer & wine can. There are some bars that allow take out of package goods, so it's good to know where they are. Those licenses that allow both consumption in and package good takeout haven't been created in decades, but existing licenses are permitted to remain, and are also permitted to be transferred to new owners in different locations, as long as they stay within the municipality.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2015, 08:56:12 PM
6 packs tend to be unusually expensive in PA. Cases are fairly reasonably priced.
That's because bars tend not to actually stock 6-packs, except maybe a few very popular brands. Instead, they really just sell you up to twelve loose bottles, at single-bottle prices. Restaurants, on the other hand, might stock 6-packs exclusively, and many use this law to effectively operate as a 6-pack retailer, with only a limited emphasis on being a restaurant. I used to live near D's Six-Packs & Dogs in Pittsburgh, which was essentially just a convenience store with a fantastic beer selection and nothing else, plus a sit-down joint for eating hot dogs and drinking beer. That's why I never found the rules restrictive, since although I couldn't buy beer just anywhere–other than, you know,
absolutely any bar–many places that had it tended to focus on it more carefully in terms of selection and inventory.
Quote from: HBEFroggie, didn't you say once that it is illegal to merely possess alcohol in a dry area there? In Kentucky, it's not illegal to possess or use alcohol in a dry territory unless possession is deemed to be for resale (bootlegging).
I believed that was the case, yes. Never enforced from what I saw, but I believe that was the letter of the law.
QuoteI hate trying to quote from three or four posts from two pages back in the thread, because the "Insert Quote" feature only shows a handful of past posts from which to quote.
Copy/paste and do it manually. It's how I normally quote.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 21, 2015, 09:15:51 AM
Quote from: dfwmapper on February 21, 2015, 04:09:42 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 20, 2015, 11:59:00 PM
Though I think Nevada takes too honor. I can't speak for all of Nevada, and maybe my experience is limited to Las Vegas/Clark County, but being able to get booze at any time, in most any place, AND carry around an open container?? A full 180 from places like Utah or the Bible Belt.
Nevada and Louisiana followed by Missouri and Arizona. Nevada has no time restrictions, permits public intoxication statewide, and Las Vegas permits open containers on the strip.
They've been cracking down though.
The Strip isn't in Las Vegas. Clark County is the governing body over the Strip...and they recently have banned open glass bottles from the Strip. http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/sep/16/glass-bottles-no-longer-allowed-las-vegas-strip/
And on Freemont Street, which is in the actual city of Las Vegas, they have cracked down on all containers other than plastic & paper cups. http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/las-vegas-council-bans-glass-aluminum-liquor-containers-fremont-street-experience
Quote from: jwolfer on February 20, 2015, 04:45:50 PM
It always struck me as odd that Bible belt locales in Florida, Georgia. Alabama etc have beer in every convenience store and grocery store but NJ with huge catholic populations doesn't not allow beer sales except in liquor stores. When I go back to NJ it is really inconvenient when you just want a six pack or 12 pack or even a single beer having to find a liquor store especially after 10pm
To be technical, NJ does allow beers sales in any store as long as they have a license. The laws of the state make seeing alcohol sold in a supermarket a rarity though (offhand, I know of a Wegmens on Rt. 1 near Princeton that sells alcohol throughout the store, and I'm aware of, but haven't been in, other supermarkets and warehouse clubs (Sams Club) that sells it within the store). After 10pm, most liquor stores are closed because it is state law liquor can't be sold after 10pm. However, beer & wine can. There are some bars that allow take out of package goods, so it's good to know where they are. Those licenses that allow both consumption in and package good takeout haven't been created in decades, but existing licenses are permitted to remain, and are also permitted to be transferred to new owners in different locations, as long as they stay within the municipality.
I remember in high school getting one if the waitresses where I worked to buy us a case of Coors light from the bar across the boardwalk. There was not much of a a lection available and sort of pricey.
There were some liquor stores that were open late selling beer, but we had to go to Lakewood.
I don't remember any grocery stores that had beer/wine in the aisles of the store, it was in the liquor store section. On ft Monmouth it was like other states beet in convenience stores( I worked for a beer distributor in college)
Louisiana might not have many state laws, but some suburban communities sure do.
I went to New Orleans in 1993, and much of the city was very relaxed back then with regard to public drinking. I know they've cracked down since then. But even back then, the suburbs made pretty much everything illegal. We'd go to a New Orleans suburb, and all the signage was "don't do this, don't do that." No this, no that, no nuthin'. Because "limited government."
One of the suburban parishes way west of town had a road sign at the parish limits about how "THIS IS NOT NEW ORLEANS" and how their alcohol laws were very strict.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 21, 2015, 09:15:51 AM
They've been cracking down though.
The Strip isn't in Las Vegas. Clark County is the governing body over the Strip...and they recently have banned open glass bottles from the Strip. http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/sep/16/glass-bottles-no-longer-allowed-las-vegas-strip/
And on Freemont Street, which is in the actual city of Las Vegas, they have cracked down on all containers other than plastic & paper cups. http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/las-vegas-council-bans-glass-aluminum-liquor-containers-fremont-street-experience
"Limited government" that isn't so limited strikes again.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 20, 2015, 09:53:10 AM
Blasphemy is illegal in Massachusetts:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section36
Let's hope the Massachusetts legislature doesn't have any translators skilled in Canadian French, since most (if not all) French profanity in Canada involves some form of blasphemy. (The same is also true for many other Romance languages - "¡me cago en Dios!")
Quote from: dfwmapper on February 20, 2015, 10:09:42 PM
Utah has a beer-only license, allowing 3.2ABW only, and also full liquor licenses that allow real beer, wine, and liquor. But, those can only be sold in combination with food, and you can't wander off with your drink after ordering (guessing there aren't a lot of dartboards in Utah pubs).
Do they still have the little partitions for the bartender to step behind when pouring a drink?
Quote from: 6a on February 21, 2015, 03:50:34 PM
Do they still have the little partitions for the bartender to step behind when pouring a drink?
Yes. And magic underpants.
Quote from: bandit957 on February 21, 2015, 01:36:01 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 21, 2015, 09:15:51 AM
They've been cracking down though.
The Strip isn't in Las Vegas. Clark County is the governing body over the Strip...and they recently have banned open glass bottles from the Strip. http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/sep/16/glass-bottles-no-longer-allowed-las-vegas-strip/
And on Freemont Street, which is in the actual city of Las Vegas, they have cracked down on all containers other than plastic & paper cups. http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/las-vegas-council-bans-glass-aluminum-liquor-containers-fremont-street-experience
"Limited government" that isn't so limited strikes again.
For a long time, I was erroneously under the impression that being "a conservative" meant desiring "limited government". In actuality, a political conservative desires to uphold social conventions and institutions as they have been established, whereas a liberal desires to challenge such conventions and institutions. One can easily see advantages and disadvantages to each position. The thing that kept throwing me off–and this is probably because my father is both a political conservative and in favor of limited government–is that said social conventions and institutions may or may not be intrusive into your personal life and your personal choices.
At any rate, I prefer to buy my wine on Sundays.
Zion curtains! I knew they had a name but it eluded me until now.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 20, 2015, 06:29:11 PM
Ever tried Polygamy Porter?
Might have been the first sixer I picked from the shelf.
"Why have just one?" ;)
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2015, 07:08:47 AM
I don't think gambling laws are considered blue laws, unless they only apply on Sundays.
I thought "blue laws" were any laws restricting a vice for a moral reason, but I don't really think about the subject much, so I'm probably wrong. I don't drink so I would be clueless if I was in a dry county.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 20, 2015, 11:33:40 PM
Re: tribal casinos in Oklahoma
Don't the tribes contract with outfits like Harrah's to run the casinos?
I know the Cherokee casino in Cherokee, NC is run this way, but I don't know of any in Oklahoma that are not staffed by tribal employees (with the possible exception of the Hard Rock Casino in Catoosa). My gaming badge is issued by the tribal gaming commission, my checks come from the tribe, and I could theoretically appeal any workplace grievances all the way to the tribal governor.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 20, 2015, 11:59:00 PM
So here is an interesting question. Who, in the US, do you think has the most relaxed liquor laws?
California seems pretty loose with them. Booze is available from a Circle K to a Bev Mo to Costco.
I agree. Loosest liquor laws I have ever experienced anywhere.
Always takes some getting used to the easy availability of liquor in food and drug stores every time I arrive in the Golden State.
I have only been in a small part of Nevada (next to Lake Tahoe), and not anywhere else, so I will not express any opinion on that state.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 21, 2015, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 20, 2015, 11:59:00 PM
So here is an interesting question. Who, in the US, do you think has the most relaxed liquor laws?
California seems pretty loose with them. Booze is available from a Circle K to a Bev Mo to Costco.
I agree. Loosest liquor laws I have ever experienced anywhere.
Coming from Washington, California has always surprised me with their lax approach to liquor. Being a minor, in Washington, I'm not allowed access to the bar area of restaurants, and in California I can walk into any pub and sit right at the bar and ask for a drink. It's the coolest thing but it completely throws me off (and likewise, tourists coming north rightly don't understand the overly-conservative laws of Oregon and Washington (never-mind the drinking age in BC of 19)).
When I'd get people at my (now-ex :-( ) front desk fussing because they can't get anything boozy after 2am, I tell them if they can make it to Shreveport, they let you drink till 6am. Which still blows me down after being raised in a not-after-2am state. Some bars here do open at 7am (except for Sunday), though, so they're not out of luck for long.
I can barely remember (this was late 1970s) when stores here in Western North Carolina would not only be closed on Sundays, but would close at noon on Wednesdays (for people to get ready for Wednesday night church services???)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2015, 08:56:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 19, 2015, 07:33:22 PM
I still don't understand Pennsylvania's laws regarding beer sales. I was astonished to walk into a Walmart in suburban Pittsburgh a few years ago and see no beer for sale. You can buy beer at a bar to take home, but not at a Walmart-type store or at a convenience store.
Regarding PA:
In general, 6 packs can only be sold by retailers that have dining areas. Yes, that's right: A place where one normally would sit down and drink a beer in normal states is where they must go to purchase a 6 pack in PA. If you want a case of beer, you have to go to a beer distributer. But, you can only buy cases at distributers...you can't buy a 6 pack there.
6 packs tend to be unusually expensive in PA. Cases are fairly reasonably priced.
Also, you are limited to the number of 6 packs you can buy...you can only purchase 2 at a time. They may have 12 packs, but it's fairly rare. If you want more than that, your buddies have to come with you...or you have to go to a distributer.
Where does this other quantities of beer, such as 18 packs? Due to the laws, they can't be sold in PA!
Note: In a few other states, including Delaware, you can't walk into a Walmart and buy beer either. NJ is generally that way - there are rare cases where you can walk into a supermarket and purchase beer/wine/liquor amongst the other goods, but they're few and far in between. For the most part, you have to go to a liquor store to purchase beer/wine/liquor. Ironically, the selection of alcohol in NJ liquor stores is better than what you will find in Walmart, because more space can be dedicated to craft brews and liquors that tend to be slower sellers, or sold in a store because the owner/manager knows their locals and clientile.
PA just slightly loosened up their rules: Distributors may now sell 12 packs: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/03/06/pa-gets-green-light-to-sell-12-packs-of-beer/
Quote from: thephantomcheese on February 26, 2015, 10:16:44 AM
I can barely remember (this was late 1970s) when stores here in Western North Carolina would not only be closed on Sundays, but would close at noon on Wednesdays (for people to get ready for Wednesday night church services???)
It could be that they were only allowed to be open X amount of hours a week. They would give up a slow time like a Wednesday afternoon in order to be open longer on the weekends.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2015, 07:58:15 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 20, 2015, 06:29:11 PM
Ever tried Polygamy Porter?
Might have been the first sixer I picked from the shelf.
"Why have just one?" ;)
I cannot drink much beer or anything else with alcohol these days, but when I visited Utah for my I-70 clinch, I did get a couple of six packs of Polygamy Porter for my Dad, who enjoys such things. His review was favorable, so yes, he did have more than one, but not in
that context.
Not that many places along I-70 in Utah to make such purchases, but I found it for sale at a Conoco truck stop on Utah 19 north of I-70 in Green River (the Chevron across the street did not sell beer).,
In New Hampshire, it is illegal to sell alcohol after 11:45pm any day. I don't remember if it's prohibited on Sunday or not. Most stores stop selling at 11:30. Living on the coast, I just drove up to Maine to get beer after 11:30, where it can be sold until 01:30.
Michigan has somewhat liberal liquor laws. 7am-2am seven days a week. Most grocery stores carry beer, wine, and liquor. Only holiday restrictions are that sales end at 9pm on Christmas Eve and begin at noon on Christmas Day. On a note with the car dealership laws, I have only found one car dealership that is open on Sundays in Michigan. It's Sundance in St. Johns, located in Clinton County (pop. 75,000)
Quote from: Duke87 on February 19, 2015, 10:26:55 PM
Connecticut only within the last few years legalized alcohol sales on Sunday. It is still illegal to sell alcohol after 8 PM any day.
Actually, 9 pm Monday-Saturday, and 10 am-5 pm on Sundays. Plus, there's minimum pricing to prohibit competition among retailers, which is why people go to MA, NY, RI or NH for cheaper booze.
WV's liquor laws are all over the place.
On the "liberal" side:
WV is a "shall issue" state. One of the not very well understood aspects of liquor laws is that many states, including several you would not think of as socially conservative, NJ for example, limit the number of bars per jurisdiction. WV doesn't do that. If you fill out the forms and qualify, you can have a liquor license. Mostly I think states that do not have "shall issue" are protecting existing businesses at the expense of new growth.
Liquor retailing is in private hands.
Drinking hours run to 3 AM. Which, IMHO, is crazy.
But, on the "conservative" side:
You cannot open a bar until 1 PM on Sunday. The Greenbrier resort has been trying to get this changed for years, as it cannot serve stuff like Mimosas or Bloody Marys at its Sunday Brunch, and they cannot even sell beer at its PGA event until 1. It even had a very narrow bill that exempted "gated hotels" which covered it and maybe 4 other places in the whole state and the Legislature still said no.
Liquor stores are closed on Sundays.
Until last year, liquor stores were closed on election days. Which included those idiotic school bond elections, which they schedule on Saturdays in the hope nobody shows up to vote them down. Finally changed because some counties were losing three or four Saturdays per year.
As to other "blue laws", WV still requires a county to vote in Sunday general retailing. Although ever county worth mentioning has voted in the deal long ago. The last was Mercer, which is not an insignificant county, which held out until the early 90s. When the law was in place, "Necessary stores" (gas stations and grocery stores) could open, and the grocery stores had to tape off "non-grocery" items as not for sale. A loophole in the law allows a store to avoid the Sunday deal if their religion had a different day of rest. Which was obviously aimed at Jews and 7th Day Adventists and such. The owners of the pre-Wal-Mart HECK's chain, back in the 60s (who were actually Syrian Orthodox Christians) swore they were some kind of religion they found in an encyclopedia that celebrated Tuesdays and closed then. It went to court and they won and most counties with HECK's stores voted out the law the next election, because the other stores didn't want the unfair competition.
How about Pot Laws. I know in California there has been a push for some time to legalized recreational pot similar to Colorado. But California has had "Medical Pot" for 20 years.
How do states define the Difference between Medical Pot and Recreational pot. It seems to me that some states are waiting for Congress and the DEA to overturn a federal prohibition over their definitions of medicinal and recreational pot
Vaping using E-cigarettes and e-cigars have been a recent political issue in some cities in the United States. There has been warnings to include labels of Lung Cancer with that.