Businesses You're Amazed Are Still Around

[kkt]

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

Yes, where I live in Seattle the closest Home Depot and Lowe's are 30 minutes each way, or more when there's heavy traffic.  Ace is 10 minutes each way.  90% of the time Ace has what I need, and their staff is more helpful.

[formulanone]

I wonder about all these bookstore.  I think a lot of B & N traffic are people who want to sit on couches and read like they are at the library.

During the 1990s, Barnes and Noble (and Border's) tapped into my inner impulse buyer. Wander into a section, meet folks with similar interests, or pick up something randomly on a topic you didn't know anything about. When the internet was still limited or non-existent, and talking in the library is verboten, that was still fun on a rainy day or if you just needed an excuse to drink coffee.

There were also times I used it like a library for works I felt I'd probably never care to read about again.

[J N Winkler]

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

It is an interesting question.  I suspect part of the answer has to do with very low land costs.  Ace tends to set up in strip shopping centers far away from the "hot" retail areas in a given city.  There are two Ace stores relatively near me, both of which are the anchor tenants in 1950's shopping centers.  One has a very small parking lot while Ace moved in at the other after Dillons (the locally dominant Kroger branch, which attracted much more traffic) moved out.  And Ace does have a proximity advantage.  If I want to buy a tool, Ace is much nearer than Harbor Freight, which is a 20-minute drive away.  Ace sells stuff in smaller packages:  if I need, say, a hole saw to modify a battery hold-down strap for an Optima Red Top, Ace will sell me just the pilot bit and specific size of saw I need for about half as much as Harbor Freight will charge me for a full set of hole saws I will probably never use.  (Ace's price, of course, includes a much higher margin per saw.)  Ace is still the best place to buy the small gubbins that are needed for a project (such as individual rubber washers, O-rings, screws, bolts, lengths of heat-shrink tubing, etc.) without having to buy in bulk to get just one of each item.  The margin per item is much higher but the benefit is not having to discard or find storage space for unused remainders.  Ace stores are also smaller and more heavily staffed per unit of sales floor area than big-box stores like Home Depot, so it takes less time to search for what is necessary, and help is easier to get.

Of course, Ace is not perfect.  If you have a project that involves piping, grew up using white lead mixed with boiled linseed oil as pipe dope, and refuse absolutely to use Teflon tape, good luck finding Teflon pipe dope instead of Teflon tape at Ace.

[Pete from Boston]

Ace.

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

They stay in business:
- because they are not 20 minutes further from someone close to them
- because the buying/marketing power of the Ace/TrueValue/etc. co-ops are not insignificant
- because their selection is often better and more flexible in areas than big-box (in small hardware, particularly, Home Depot is crap, while Lowe's is marginally better)
- because their business is better tuned to local customer bases
- because their staff tend to know much better what they have, what it does, and what a customer needs to solve their particular problem.  This is where the "if you know exactly what you want" comment above puzzles me.  Good luck finding the person at Home Depot that has the specific expertise you need.  There are fewer than one per area per shift that are particularly experienced.

If you make very regular use of hardware stores and their big box competitors, the strengths of the former are very clear.

[J N Winkler]

This was an Ace project:



The battery hold-down strap came from a junkyard, but everything else (including tools to make) came from Ace.  The design goal was to get the strap to go over the top posts without shorting the battery.  To get the right size of nylon snap bushing and thus the correct diameter of hole saw, I had to bring one of the insulator caps with me to Ace so I could physically compare it to the various sizes of snap bushing that were available.  There are also O-rings over each post to seat the strap (not visible in the photo) and those came from Ace too, through the same mechanism of comparing insulator cap to the various sizes of O-rings in the plumbing supply section.

[jeffandnicole]

There was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

Acme, the supermarket, has been around way longer (1890's) than Acme, the never-probably working gadget store visited by coyotes.

Acme, the supermarket, has a solid footprint in the Philadelphia area market, although their prices have always tended to be high.  They have closed several stores over the past decade, although they are still a dominant player in the area.

BTW, you also have to understand the pronunciation of Acme in the Philly area.  It's Ack-ah-me. No clue where the 2nd syllable came from.

Ace.

This reminds me: how do ACE Hardware and True Value stores manage to stay in business anywhere but small towns? Granted, if they are close enough to home/work, if you know exactly what you want, and if you don't want to travel 20 more minutes to get a wider variety of choices, I guess they still have a niche.

In one town near me, there's a True Value, Lowes & Home Depot.  They all co-exist fine.   The successful True Values and Ace's do well for the reasons already mentioned: friendly service and stock that meets the needs of the area.  There's a very independent hardware store near me that opened up relatively recently...same thing - they're not going to carry 2x12's, but for a heating register for the many homes built in the 1950's in the area or other various small items, I can get in, buy what I need, and back home before I even reach the Lowes that's only 10 minutes away.

[Pete from Boston]

Some of the Ace/True Value outlets here also do a brisk housewares/outdoor accessories/home decor business.  Some have a garden business attached (nearly always better that the big boxes). 

They also usually carry better paints than the big stores.  I'm no painter, but this is the emphatic opinion of the painters I know.

(All these ways these stores can excel make it truly depressing when one is lousy, but even those often have one strength that keeps them going.)

[thenetwork]

The biggest and oldest grocery chain in the Akron/Canton area is called ACME.  But it is in no relation to any other Acme stores outside of NE OH, except for the fact that the founder "borrowed" the name from the Acme chain out east.  They also used to have a chain of non-food stores called Click (with some of them -- Acme & Click -- under the same roof), but most of those Clicks have gone under or were absorbed under the Acme name.

There also used to be a chain of grocery stores in the Cleveland area called Stop & Shop, but again -- to my knowledge -- they were not related to any other S&S's outside of NE OH.

There also used to be another grocery chain in Cleveland called Eagle Supermarkets, which slowly went under by the late 90s.  Around the same time, the PA-based chain GIANT Eagle came to town, but again, the two were not related.

[DeaconG]

I don't think it's any worse than Stop & Shop, which is kind of its equally moribund sibling in the market

I believe that Stop & Shop, Giant and Martin's are now owned by the same company.  Which explains the same fruit basket logo on the store-brand products in all three stores.

There was actually a chain called ACME?  Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I always associated Acme with the place Wile E. Coyote got his faulty products from. LOL!

I thought the exact same thing when I first moved to the Greater Philly area circa 1990.

I grew up around the ACME Markets distribution center at 57th and Upland Way. Walked past it going to high school for years...building's still there, though I don't know who the tenants are.

[spooky]

Some of the Ace/True Value outlets here also do a brisk housewares/outdoor accessories/home decor business.  Some have a garden business attached (nearly always better that the big boxes). 

They also usually carry better paints than the big stores.  I'm no painter, but this is the emphatic opinion of the painters I know.

(All these ways these stores can excel make it truly depressing when one is lousy, but even those often have one strength that keeps them going.)

A planner once told me that the sign of a vibrant town center is a local hardware store. Often these are True Value stores.

[DandyDan]

There also used to be another grocery chain in Cleveland called Eagle Supermarkets, which slowly went under by the late 90s.  Around the same time, the PA-based chain GIANT Eagle came to town, but again, the two were not related.

It's funny you should mention that, because in the Chicago area, they had an Eagle supermarket chain as well, which was my first employer, only they were based out of the Quad Cities.  They eventually went under as well.  That Eagle and your Eagle were highly unlikely to be related.

[bugo]

Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff.   

That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Or maybe you are that bat-ignorant. I like some "craft" beers because of the way they taste. I'm not trying to look "cool" by drinking a certain type of beer. I'd drink a good high quality beer by myself. What I can't stand is the cheap, corn or rice-based swill like Budweiser, Coors, and Miller. That shit is made for those who don't like beer. Bud Light tastes like water with a hint of a hoppy flavor. It's not beer. Your taste buds are just too primitive to know what a real beer is supposed to taste like. Quit making generalizations about things you have no clue about.

PS: You admitted to liking American adjunct lagers, so your opinion on beer is irrelevant.

[Pete from Boston]

Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff.   

Look how cranky the Budweisers of the world make people.  Let that be a lesson, kids.

The rant above is about as sensical as complaining that white bread should be good enough for people and anyone eating other kinds is doing it for appearances.

Busch et al. did get one thing right–after Prohibition they locked down one inoffensive style as the definition of "beer," and duped a public with few choices into embracing this marketing plan.  I bet they didn't think they'd dupe people into defending it, too.

It's no surprise that homebrewing was essentially banned, lest people figure out what they were missing, and when the restriction was lifted, a world of Bud-brewers didn't emerge, but rather a renaissance of old traditional styles the big boys couldn't be bothered with anymore.

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

[empirestate]

Yes, Budweiser-style beer is all a product of prohibition, and the circumstances under which it was repealed. As mentioned above, IPAs and such are relatively easy to brew in small batches with consistency, but the repeal was not conducive to such operations. Now that there's more freedom, it's these easier styles that have overtaken the craft market, whereas Budweiser-style is rarely made on this scale because it's extremely difficult to brew consistently and thus not worth the effort for microbreweries. It needs the strict quality control and high-capacity production lines of the A-B and similar companies to make a commercially viable product.

[spooky]

Yes, Budweiser-style beer is all a product of prohibition, and the circumstances under which it was repealed. As mentioned above, IPAs and such are relatively easy to brew in small batches with consistency, but the repeal was not conducive to such operations. Now that there's more freedom, it's these easier styles that have overtaken the craft market, whereas Budweiser-style is rarely made on this scale because it's extremely difficult to brew consistently and thus not worth the effort for microbreweries. It needs the strict quality control and high-capacity production lines of the A-B and similar companies to make a commercially viable product.

I think that there's also a stigma associated with pale yellow lagers because of Budweiser and its ilk.

[algorerhythms]

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

Sam Adams in brewed in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, last I heard. Rolling Rock is brewed in New Jersey...

[spooky]

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

Sam Adams in brewed in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, last I heard. Rolling Rock is brewed in New Jersey...

Sam Adams is brewed in PA, but not in Latrobe. Not sure of the town but it is right off I-78 west of Allentown. It was a Stroh's brewery in the late 80s/early 90s.

SP Cook is correct in part of his diatribe - Sam Adams is also mass brewed in Cincinnati, and the Jamaica Plain brewery shown in the commercials does not brew in commercial quantities. That being said, every style of Sam Adams beer except the Boston Lager has originated in Jamaica Plain.

[jeffandnicole]

The best Budweiser I ever had was when I took a tour of their St. Louis brewery.  Not the free tour, but a more in-depth (read: $25) tour.  While it took you on some of the main areas of the free tour, it also took you in more behind-the-scenes type areas, including the holding tanks filled with beer.  A single tank is fresh beer, sitting in the holding tank no more than 24 hours before it's poured into bottles/cans/kegs.  The tanks are in a 36 degree room, and thus the beer is chilled to 36 degrees.  We were able to taste the Budweiser straight from the holding tank. I had 3 glasses.  I think I was buzzed that quick from it.

Coors:  Coors Original (or Coors Banquet, as it prefers to be called) isn't a bad beer either.  Way better than Coors Water Light.

BTW, for you Coors haters:  If you ever had a Blue Moon, you had a Coors product.  There's a reason why Coors prefers you don't know that!

[J Route Z]

Radio Shack, Pathmark, Kmart, and Sears.

[Pete from Boston]

BTW, for you Coors haters:  If you ever had a Blue Moon, you had a Coors product.  There's a reason why Coors prefers you don't know that!

Likewise the Redhook/Widmer company doesn't advertise the fact that it is one third owned by Anheuser-Busch, nor does the suddenly ubiquitous Goose Island advertise that is wholly owned by Anheuser-Busch.

The big brewing companies understand where the market is, and are buying their way into the profits that they are losing to small brewers at a steady rate.

[texaskdog]

Beer - See McDonald's above. Craft beer is for a certain group of people.  People who really don't like beer but want to have a snobbish little clique to discuss how much more cultured they are than people who like beer are.  Augie Busch, Fredie Miller, and Adolph Coors got it right.  Oh, and Sam Adams is made in a huge stainless steel vat in Cincinnati by a big corporation and has NEVER been made in commercial quantities anywhere near Boston nor in the style shown in their ignorant commercials.  Give me that clean, crisp, taste of Beachwood aged American beer.  Keep your 100 times too many hops, your pumpkin seeds, you IPAs, and all your other goofy crap.  We all know you don't really like that stuff.   

Look how cranky the Budweisers of the world make people.  Let that be a lesson, kids.

The rant above is about as sensical as complaining that white bread should be good enough for people and anyone eating other kinds is doing it for appearances.

Busch et al. did get one thing right—after Prohibition they locked down one inoffensive style as the definition of "beer," and duped a public with few choices into embracing this marketing plan.  I bet they didn't think they'd dupe people into defending it, too.

It's no surprise that homebrewing was essentially banned, lest people figure out what they were missing, and when the restriction was lifted, a world of Bud-brewers didn't emerge, but rather a renaissance of old traditional styles the big boys couldn't be bothered with anymore.

And Sam Adams is dull beer, but not as dull as Coors.  Anyone not in a Busch-Light-induced stupor knows it's not brewed in Boston, that it's not particularly interesting, and that complaining like this makes you pretty much this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

I just watched Smoky & the Bandit last night again.  Can't imagine Coors being in such  high demand these days.

[spooky]

I just watched Smoky & the Bandit last night again.  Can't imagine Coors being in such  high demand these days.

The boys are thirsty in Atlanta and there's beer in Texarkana!

Coors was in demand because it wasn't available in the eastern half of the country.

It's on a completely different scale, but the concept of "white whales" is quite prevalent in the craft beer scene in recent times. People want the beers they can't get, despite the presence of countless great, readily available craft beers in most regions of the country.

Maybe the beer part of this discussion should be merged with the beer/brewery thread?

[roadman65]

Amazed that Speedway (petroleum) is still around as back in the 90's they closed their gas stations in Florida with some being taken over by Sunoco to bring them to the south.

Now they just purchased Hess and are the biggest retailer for gasoline in the country and opening again here in Orlando.

[Brandon]

Amazed that Speedway (petroleum) is still around as back in the 90's they closed their gas stations in Florida with some being taken over by Sunoco to bring them to the south.

Now they just purchased Hess and are the biggest retailer for gasoline in the country and opening again here in Orlando.

That seems to have been just exiting a market.  Around here, Speedway has been ubiquitous for a long time.  And they're usually the first mother fuckers (and that's not quite strong enough, IMHO) to raise prices.

[texaskdog]

I just watched Smoky & the Bandit last night again.  Can't imagine Coors being in such  high demand these days.

The boys are thirsty in Atlanta and there's beer in Texarkana!

Coors was in demand because it wasn't available in the eastern half of the country.

It's on a completely different scale, but the concept of "white whales" is quite prevalent in the craft beer scene in recent times. People want the beers they can't get, despite the presence of countless great, readily available craft beers in most regions of the country.

Maybe the beer part of this discussion should be merged with the beer/brewery thread?

Heck, tell someone there is some craft beer that they can't get in their part of the country and they'll be dying to have one.