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Garden State Parkway

Started by Roadrunner75, July 30, 2014, 09:53:00 PM

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Alps

Quote from: NJRoadfan on July 30, 2021, 10:06:53 PM
Seven southbound and eight northbound. It's the world's widest bridge by number of lanes (physically widest is the Capital Beltway Woodrow Wilson Bridge)
False. It's not all one bridge - SB is a different structure. If you count this as one bridge, then there is part of the Turnpike that is 18 lanes (6x3-lane roadways) and has overpasses.


roadman65

Isn't the new East Span of the Bay Bridge now considered by the Guinness Book of World Records to be the widest?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

On a recent NJ Turnpike Authority Facebook post, the Authority only says it's "one of the widest", and doesn't proclaim it to be an actual widest in any category.

storm2k

Quote from: theroadwayone on July 31, 2021, 12:38:32 AM
Speaking of the bridge, is it rather misleading that the Express EZ-Pass lanes for the Raritan Toll Plaza are signed as a "Toll Plaza Bypass?" You're bypassing the booths for paying the toll, but not the toll itself.

Yes. It implies something it's not supposed to. The older signs that just had the giant EZ-Pass logos on them did a better job of conveying that you could not use cash and that was enough. The MUTCD is even plainer about it. Open Road tolling lanes like that should just have a BGS with the ETC system logo (so EZ-Pass in this case) a black on white ONLY block, and down arrows.

roadman65

Please tell me the lane striping here is an illusion.
https://goo.gl/maps/vJtdLyX11yKVSZte9
All white lines for a two way street and a neutral center lane.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on August 05, 2021, 02:46:06 AM
Please tell me the lane striping here is an illusion.
https://goo.gl/maps/vJtdLyX11yKVSZte9
All white lines for a two way street and a neutral center lane.

There's really no one standard method for striping reversible lanes where all lanes could be going the same direction or opposing directions. Overhead arrows and X's, or traffic cones, often assist with denoting which lane(s) to use.

SignBridge

Or that's a one-way road and a mistake was made when painting one of the directional arrows.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SignBridge on August 05, 2021, 04:07:49 PM
Or that's a one-way road and a mistake was made when painting one of the directional arrows.

It's bi-directional. There's lane use indicators on the overpass. It's a roadway for access to/from the PNC Arts Center off the Parkway

vdeane

Meanwhile, the lights at the overpass were on the opposite lanes as the arrows, and seem to be some distance away... that whole area seems confusing.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

roadman65

It also is confusing where the left lanes merge into the circular roadway and defaults into on coming lanes.
https://goo.gl/maps/sPXa6MrrMPC91PS66

The crossing under the parkway is a UK driving setup using only lights above as traffic control.


Also am I to understand that the Wayside Road ramp from local Exit 105 is no toll to exit?   To me that will produce shunpiking Exit 98. Motorists for Route 138 now can use Route 18 to bypass the Belmar-Wall Ramp tolls by using Wayside Road to Route 18 south.  Exit 105 to Route 36 has always been tolled, why allow this ramp to be free?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

storm2k

Quote from: roadman65 on August 05, 2021, 11:00:31 PM
Also am I to understand that the Wayside Road ramp from local Exit 105 is no toll to exit?   To me that will produce shunpiking Exit 98. Motorists for Route 138 now can use Route 18 to bypass the Belmar-Wall Ramp tolls by using Wayside Road to Route 18 south.  Exit 105 to Route 36 has always been tolled, why allow this ramp to be free?

105 is not tolled on exit anymore, only entry. Been that way for a while now, at least back to when the moved to the one-way tolling setup. You can see from the GSV where the admin building part of the toll plaza is and how the toll booths used to extend across (some of the ones on entry still have the old style NJHA two way setup so they could be flipped depending on which side was getting more traffic). Therefore, there's no shunpike to be had here technically. The main drive to build that new ramp was so that traffic heading to 18 doesn't need to get  off onto 36 and clog up Hope Road to get to 18SB, and there wasn't a good way from there to 18NB that didn't involve U-Turns.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on August 05, 2021, 11:00:31 PM
It also is confusing where the left lanes merge into the circular roadway and defaults into on coming lanes.
https://goo.gl/maps/sPXa6MrrMPC91PS66

The crossing under the parkway is a UK driving setup using only lights above as traffic control.


Also am I to understand that the Wayside Road ramp from local Exit 105 is no toll to exit?   To me that will produce shunpiking Exit 98. Motorists for Route 138 now can use Route 18 to bypass the Belmar-Wall Ramp tolls by using Wayside Road to Route 18 south.  Exit 105 to Route 36 has always been tolled, why allow this ramp to be free?

They could exit at Interchanges 102, 100, or the commuter lot to get to NJ 18 and avoid the toll at Exit 98 as well.

storm2k

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 06, 2021, 12:26:01 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 05, 2021, 11:00:31 PM
It also is confusing where the left lanes merge into the circular roadway and defaults into on coming lanes.
https://goo.gl/maps/sPXa6MrrMPC91PS66

The crossing under the parkway is a UK driving setup using only lights above as traffic control.


Also am I to understand that the Wayside Road ramp from local Exit 105 is no toll to exit?   To me that will produce shunpiking Exit 98. Motorists for Route 138 now can use Route 18 to bypass the Belmar-Wall Ramp tolls by using Wayside Road to Route 18 south.  Exit 105 to Route 36 has always been tolled, why allow this ramp to be free?

They could exit at Interchanges 102, 100, or the commuter lot to get to NJ 18 and avoid the toll at Exit 98 as well.

In any event, they collect enough toll revenue at 98 with all the shore traffic heading to Manesquan and Pt Pleasant during the shore season, so it washes out. Most people who commute or live in the area probably already know the ins and outs of avoiding those tolls if they don't want to pay them.

roadman65

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 06, 2021, 12:26:01 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 05, 2021, 11:00:31 PM
It also is confusing where the left lanes merge into the circular roadway and defaults into on coming lanes.
https://goo.gl/maps/sPXa6MrrMPC91PS66

The crossing under the parkway is a UK driving setup using only lights above as traffic control.


Also am I to understand that the Wayside Road ramp from local Exit 105 is no toll to exit?   To me that will produce shunpiking Exit 98. Motorists for Route 138 now can use Route 18 to bypass the Belmar-Wall Ramp tolls by using Wayside Road to Route 18 south.  Exit 105 to Route 36 has always been tolled, why allow this ramp to be free?

They could exit at Interchanges 102, 100, or the commuter lot to get to NJ 18 and avoid the toll at Exit 98 as well.

Exit 105 now is right at 18.  Using 102 requires a short travel on Asbury Avenue and 100 requires a short stint on 33.  Not as convenient as the new 105 ramp. Only a tenth of a mile on Wayside Road.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

02 Park Ave

#1439
As stated in Reply #4015 on the NJ Turnpike thread, when AET finally comes to New Jersey I hope that it is done correctly so as to fix the tolling inconsistencies on the GSP and ACE and tolling inaccuracies on the Turnpike.
C-o-H

roadman65

I always had the issue with Exit 98 being tolled being so close to the Asbury Toll Plaza. However being the South Jersey ramps try to collect from the most exits patronized, I can see why the tolls are SB off and NB on with the exception of Exit 4 due to the traffic from Lewes, DE visiting Wildwood.

Also in North Jersey the fact the ramp tolls are NB off and SB on due to commuter traffic going to New York and NJ suburbs with work I can see.

With AET things will change some but I think it may get worse.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NJRoadfan

The tolling south of Exit 100 was always kind of weird. You have a SB off/NB on ramp tolls on every exit between the Toms River barrier and Exit 100. So the price per mile drops significantly if you get off at Exit 89 vs. 98. Many of these exits used to lack NB off/SB on ramps, so the tolling zone was more rigidly enforced.

TL;DR, tolling on the GSP was always a mess that only got worse with the one-way plaza conversion. It still isn't quite as "screw you" like the way the US-301 toll road is setup in Delaware.

vdeane

Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 06, 2021, 05:36:49 PM
TL;DR, tolling on the GSP was always a mess that only got worse with the one-way plaza conversion. It still isn't quite as "screw you" like the way the US-301 toll road is setup in Delaware.
In defense of US 301 in DE, they at least don't charge interchange tolls if you pass under the mainline toll during your trip, so getting off and then back on when traveling the full corridor is not penalized.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

storm2k

Quote from: roadman65 on August 06, 2021, 05:15:49 PM
I always had the issue with Exit 98 being tolled being so close to the Asbury Toll Plaza. However being the South Jersey ramps try to collect from the most exits patronized, I can see why the tolls are SB off and NB on with the exception of Exit 4 due to the traffic from Lewes, DE visiting Wildwood.

Also in North Jersey the fact the ramp tolls are NB off and SB on due to commuter traffic going to New York and NJ suburbs with work I can see.

With AET things will change some but I think it may get worse.

98 is a major shore tourist destination so you best believe they're going to capture as much toll revenue as they can there. To be fair, 105 is too since that's the main interchange for Long Branch, so I'm not entirely sure of the politics that led to the exit toll being removed there, but it was. And the tolling seems weird, but like NJRoadfan said, most of these interchanges were only built as partials and have slowly been converted into full interchanges in the intervening decades. So the tolling seems weird.

I also never understood not putting up a booth for Exit 4 towards Wildwood exiting SB/entering NB and only having a booth exiting NB/entering SB. That's a major exit as well for traffic heading to the Wildwood resorts, you'd think they'd want to capture that revenue.

Roadgeek Adam

#1444
Reminder 98 wasn't an original interchange. 98 replaced the very complex 96-97-97A interchanges, which were all free. (Parts of 96 and 97 are still in 98). A lot of rebuilt and re-designed ramps. Regardless, it is silly to have the Asbury Park Plaza and 98 so close, but money talks. The 98 northbound toll is silly, but I understand it.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

noelbotevera

While we're on the topic of tolls, what prompted the Highway Authority to design a convoluted tolling scheme? More specifically, what was the original intention behind having both ramp tolls at select places and barrier tolls?

As it stands, it seems ridiculous that one can travel northbound between Toms River and Essex County and only pay twice, but almost every southbound entrance is tolled.

vdeane

Quote from: noelbotevera on August 09, 2021, 09:36:36 PM
While we're on the topic of tolls, what prompted the Highway Authority to design a convoluted tolling scheme? More specifically, what was the original intention behind having both ramp tolls at select places and barrier tolls?

As it stands, it seems ridiculous that one can travel northbound between Toms River and Essex County and only pay twice, but almost every southbound entrance is tolled.
There are enough access points where trying to do a ticket-based system was impractical.  Keep in mind that the mainline tolls were originally two-way; the ramp tolls were originally intended to capture traffic that could potentially not be going through a mainline toll, and many exits were half interchanges to minimize the number of booths to build.  There was also the free zone originally build by NJDOT before the decision was made to use tolls to get the road built faster.  When the barriers were converted to one-way and interchanges started having their missing movements built, they simply never bothered to adjust the toll locations to the new realities of how the road operated.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: vdeane on August 09, 2021, 09:57:11 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 09, 2021, 09:36:36 PM
While we're on the topic of tolls, what prompted the Highway Authority to design a convoluted tolling scheme? More specifically, what was the original intention behind having both ramp tolls at select places and barrier tolls?

As it stands, it seems ridiculous that one can travel northbound between Toms River and Essex County and only pay twice, but almost every southbound entrance is tolled.
There are enough access points where trying to do a ticket-based system was impractical.  Keep in mind that the mainline tolls were originally two-way; the ramp tolls were originally intended to capture traffic that could potentially not be going through a mainline toll, and many exits were half interchanges to minimize the number of booths to build.  There was also the free zone originally build by NJDOT before the decision was made to use tolls to get the road built faster.  When the barriers were converted to one-way and interchanges started having their missing movements built, they simply never bothered to adjust the toll locations to the new realities of how the road operated.

The NJ State Library in Trenton may have some documentation with the study and reasoning why they were placed where they were, but even in the best of theories it's really haphazard where they got placed.

One spot that wasn't tolled that should've been is where the GSP and ACX meet. The two toll roads opted for a simple cloverleaf interchange rather than something that would've been more suitable for collecting tolls. Would it have jammed with congestion? Probably.  But that didn't stop them from tolling elsewhere where congestion was probable.

SignBridge

#1448
They probably didn't want to discourage people from driving to Atlantic City. Anywhere else congestion didn't matter as much; but the Atlantic City trade was not to be messed with, would be my assumption.

Also I agree with vdeane's reasoning that the placement of tolls on ramps in relation to the barrier tolls probably was logical when originally designed around the barriers existing in both directions.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SignBridge on August 09, 2021, 10:29:04 PM
They probably didn't want to discourage people from driving to Atlantic City. Anywhere else congestion didn't matter as much; but the Atlantic City trade was not to be messed with, would be my assumption.

Unlikely, being that both the Parkway and Expressway were built many years prior to casino gaming was permitted in AC, and that was only after it was voted down statewide.

Also doesn't explain why people would be willing to pay tolls on both highways going to AC, including on the Expressway just outside AC. And doesn't explain why there isn't a ramp toll from the Expressway East to the Parkway South, and other non-AC involved movements.



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