New York

[roadman65]

Just what exactly needs to be upgraded on the Quickway to make it up to interstate standards?  I have not been on that road since I was a kid and as a grownup driver, I rode it a few times in Orange County between I-87 and I-84, but that was years ago so I cannot remember what the substandard features were on it.

Could someone explain to me what needs to be upgraded, especially between I-87 and I-84 where they could be signed considering its connected to the rest of the system.

[cl94]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

They're not signing it east of I-84 until the NY 17/32 interchange is rebuilt and the Crystal Run/I-84 project is finished. Almost everything else is remaining as-is due to terrain. A bunch of spot upgrades are in progress as well.

[roadman65]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

They're not signing it east of I-84 until the NY 17/32 interchange is rebuilt and the Crystal Run/I-84 project is finished. Almost everything else is remaining as-is due to terrain. A bunch of spot upgrades are in progress as well.

Is not Exit 98 been fixed?  According to Google the bypass of the small village or hamlet is completed with a grade separated diamond.

Oh and BTW what is the new NY 17/ NY 32 interchange to be like when completed?

[empirestate]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

They're not signing it east of I-84 until the NY 17/32 interchange is rebuilt and the Crystal Run/I-84 project is finished. Almost everything else is remaining as-is due to terrain. A bunch of spot upgrades are in progress as well.

Is not Exit 98 been fixed?  According to Google the bypass of the small village or hamlet is completed with a grade separated diamond.

Yeah, the signal at Exit 98 has been bypassed for a few years now; that's why it's not in the list above.

[roadman65]

Okay, my mistake I thought that you were referring to that one as I thought that one was near Hancock. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Is there any timeline of when the portion between exit 84 and exit 87 will be bypassed? It seems Interstate 86 should have stretched all the way from Interstate 90 to Interstate 87 by now.

[Buffaboy]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

They're not signing it east of I-84 until the NY 17/32 interchange is rebuilt and the Crystal Run/I-84 project is finished. Almost everything else is remaining as-is due to terrain. A bunch of spot upgrades are in progress as well.

This is the one (future) Interstate I have not been on in Upstate, at least past Binghamton. Going to NYC about 8 years ago my parents decided taking 86-81-380-80-280 would be quicker than NY 17. So since I've never been on it I can't say if it was or wasn't quicker, but I assume it has a 55 MPH posted limit.

[route17fan]

[/quote]
This is the one (future) Interstate I have not been on in Upstate, at least past Binghamton. Going to NYC about 8 years ago my parents decided taking 86-81-380-80-280 would be quicker than NY 17. So since I've never been on it I can't say if it was or wasn't quicker, but I assume it has a 55 MPH posted limit.
[/quote]

It's mainly 65 but there are 55 segments interspersed.

[vdeane]

Is there any timeline of when the portion between exit 84 and exit 87 will be bypassed? It seems Interstate 86 should have stretched all the way from Interstate 90 to Interstate 87 by now.

No idea.  It appears that any timeline information on it is gone, so it might not even be on the STIP any more for all I know.

[noelbotevera]

Just extend I-86 to Sullivan/Orange county line. The only obstacle is the RIRO, the simple way out is to demolish the thing.

[cl94]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

They're not signing it east of I-84 until the NY 17/32 interchange is rebuilt and the Crystal Run/I-84 project is finished. Almost everything else is remaining as-is due to terrain. A bunch of spot upgrades are in progress as well.

This is the one (future) Interstate I have not been on in Upstate, at least past Binghamton. Going to NYC about 8 years ago my parents decided taking 86-81-380-80-280 would be quicker than NY 17. So since I've never been on it I can't say if it was or wasn't quicker, but I assume it has a 55 MPH posted limit.

About half and half, but the 55 is relatively unenforced (but I wouldn't go much faster in a vehicle with poor handling). Do note that all but ~1 mile in Delaware County and ~1/4 of the length in Sullivan County is signed at 55. Traffic, when present, often moves a good 10-15+ over the limit. Compare that to I-80 in Stroudsburg, where you'll get a ticket for going 52. A hell of a lot more scenic on NY 17 and traffic is typically better. My family typically takes NY 17, US 6/202, Bear Mountain Parkway, the Taconic, and the Sprain Brook. Tolls are significantly less (even if you use the Thruway south of Woodbury) and you avoid the Port Authority crossings, which are notoriously expensive and quite congested. Going to Long Island from Buffalo, the first backup I typically encounter is on the Bronx River Parkway a little north of the Cross Bronx.

As far as the RIRO goes, there's a lot of local opposition, but the Army Corps of Engineers isn't hearing any of it. Except for the at-grade section, the 55 areas are not being updated due to local opposition.

The stretch between Exits 84 and 87 is the part in Hancock. It's very possible they're still working on the FEIS. It was supposed to begin construction this year or next year, but that obviously isn't happening. I-86 reassurance markers are up and covered between Hancock and I-84. When it'll be designated is unknown.

[Rothman]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

Unfortunately, this description is simply far, far too simplistic compared to the reality. 

There were half-a-dozen individual projects that were needed in Region 8 alone that were never done since the program that funded I-86 projects was essentially yanked what's now a decent number of years ago (i.e., when NYSDOT priorities changed to preservation-only -- coffin nails were really driven as recently as 2012, though, although the programming of the conversion started slowing down a year or two prior).  A couple of straggler projects deemed necessary were continued (e.g., Prospect Mountain), but most were put on the back-burner, and by back-burner, I mean way out of the STIP period. 

Exit 111 is just one of the bigger projects on the list of back-burnered projects.  For an example of another: Even the connection to I-87 needs additional work to garner designation.  Any time that is brought up, the words "Woodbury Centre" causes the discussion to come to an abrupt halt.  My bet is that we're not going to see I-86 connecting to I-87 in my lifetime.

Last I heard, work on the Hale Eddy to Hancock project -- essentially the next in line in terms of NYSDOT's I-86 programming some time ago now -- had ceased.  That project is more hopeful than others, though, for being done sometime in the nearer future, I suppose (Region 6 wants to do it, I believe).

Anyway, the short of it is that the political weight behind I-86 is just not there anymore (e.g. Moynihan).  NYSDOT commissioners and NY governors have, at most, just paid lip service to the conversion for the past few years.

It just ain't happening.

[Alps]

About half and half, but the 55 is relatively unenforced (but I wouldn't go much faster in a vehicle with poor handling). Do note that all but ~1 mile in Delaware County and ~1/4 of the length in Sullivan County is signed at 55. Traffic, when present, often moves a good 10-15+ over the limit. Compare that to I-80 in Stroudsburg, where you'll get a ticket for going 52.

You sure about that? I breeze through at 65 with plenty of company.

[cl94]

Okay, here's what remains:

-The at-grade section between Deposit and Hancock
-The RIRO (Exit 111)

Unfortunately, this description is simply far, far too simplistic compared to the reality. 

There were half-a-dozen individual projects that were needed in Region 8 alone that were never done since the program that funded I-86 projects was essentially yanked what's now a decent number of years ago (i.e., when NYSDOT priorities changed to preservation-only -- coffin nails were really driven as recently as 2012, though, although the programming of the conversion started slowing down a year or two prior).  A couple of straggler projects deemed necessary were continued (e.g., Prospect Mountain), but most were put on the back-burner, and by back-burner, I mean way out of the STIP period. 

Exit 111 is just one of the bigger projects on the list of back-burnered projects.  For an example of another: Even the connection to I-87 needs additional work to garner designation.  Any time that is brought up, the words "Woodbury Centre" causes the discussion to come to an abrupt halt.  My bet is that we're not going to see I-86 connecting to I-87 in my lifetime.

Last I heard, work on the Hale Eddy to Hancock project -- essentially the next in line in terms of NYSDOT's I-86 programming some time ago now -- had ceased.  That project is more hopeful than others, though, for being done sometime in the nearer future, I suppose (Region 6 wants to do it, I believe).

Anyway, the short of it is that the political weight behind I-86 is just not there anymore (e.g. Moynihan).  NYSDOT commissioners and NY governors have, at most, just paid lip service to the conversion for the past few years.

It just ain't happening.

Yeah, that's what I feared. All of the conversion projects have been pulled from the project lists. I saw something recently about Woodbury, but I can't remember where.

I'm not giving up hope that something will be done within the next 50 years, but not with the current group of people in charge. From what I've seen, plans pretty much exist for the last at-grade section and Region 9 wants to do it. At some point, the preservation-only mindset is going to change. Traffic counts in most places are on the rise and LOS E (or worse) is the norm in many places.

I hate to say this, but we need people to retire to get the old blood out of the system and funding won't get back to a decent level until the state stops paying Tier 1 and 2 pensions. We're probably talking 10-15 years until there's any reductions in the pension black hole.

Eventually, it'll get to a point where NYSDOT won't have much of a choice because everything is clogged. I hope it doesn't get to that point. My job when I start doctoral studies in the spring will basically be figuring out ways to milk as much capacity out of the state's system as we can get, but it's getting to a point, especially along the I-87 corridor, where you can't move everyone even if everyone rides on each other's bumper and all driver error is eliminated. I've seen the LOS data from Buffalo's MPO. It's not good and traffic has gotten a lot worse since I moved here in 2007.

About half and half, but the 55 is relatively unenforced (but I wouldn't go much faster in a vehicle with poor handling). Do note that all but ~1 mile in Delaware County and ~1/4 of the length in Sullivan County is signed at 55. Traffic, when present, often moves a good 10-15+ over the limit. Compare that to I-80 in Stroudsburg, where you'll get a ticket for going 52.

You sure about that? I breeze through at 65 with plenty of company.

Every time I've been through there, it was heavily enforced. Someone who slowly passed me once was pulled over.

[Rothman]

I don't see how the pension fund affects funding that ends up in NYSDOT's capital program.  My understanding is that the pension fund is a totally separate pot from the budget sources that fund NYSDOT.

Pension fund seems to be doing pretty well, too.

[Rothman]

Oh, and I haven't heard a peep out of Region 9 on I-86 outside of Prospect Mountain (i.e., in terms of them pushing to do whatever project).  I'm pretty sure there's nothing in its program I-86 conversion-wise besides that one project (and it is sizable).

[cl94]

I don't see how the pension fund affects funding that ends up in NYSDOT's capital program.  My understanding is that the pension fund is a totally separate pot from the budget sources that fund NYSDOT.

Pension fund seems to be doing pretty well, too.

If the pension fund is separate, where the hell is the transportation funding going? Entire state is losing funds.

[froggie]

If the pension fund is separate, where the hell is the transportation funding going?

Transportation infrastructure is expensive.  Bottom line.  Period.  As has been the case across most (all?) of the country, the costs of materials has jumped significantly in the past decade.  Even though oil's come back down in recent weeks, steel and concrete are still expensive.  And then there is payroll/personnel costs, which is the single largest expense (by far) for transit agencies.

[Rothman]

I don't see how the pension fund affects funding that ends up in NYSDOT's capital program.  My understanding is that the pension fund is a totally separate pot from the budget sources that fund NYSDOT.

Pension fund seems to be doing pretty well, too.

If the pension fund is separate, where the hell is the transportation funding going? Entire state is losing funds.

Definitely not to the pension.   NYSDOT simply has a general shortage from the usual budget sources and it's not due to money being siphoned off to the pension.  NY's pension has its own sources of revenue.

[Rothman]

I also confirmed today that the I-86 conversion from Hale Eddy to Hancock is off the program entirely.  Nothing is happening on that project.

[cl94]

If the pension fund is separate, where the hell is the transportation funding going?

Transportation infrastructure is expensive.  Bottom line.  Period.  As has been the case across most (all?) of the country, the costs of materials has jumped significantly in the past decade.  Even though oil's come back down in recent weeks, steel and concrete are still expensive.  And then there is payroll/personnel costs, which is the single largest expense (by far) for transit agencies.

It's more of that funds are being withdrawn and redistributed elsewhere. NYC public transit had a lot (over $20B) withdrawn and I don't think they've been able to get a lot of it back. I know what stuff costs, which is exactly why funding cuts across the board are BS.

I also confirmed today that the I-86 conversion from Hale Eddy to Hancock is off the program entirely.  Nothing is happening on that project.

Not surprised. I checked Region 5's list and they've pulled everything that isn't essential maintenance as well (except for Cuomo's pet project, of course).

[vdeane]

I believe a large chunk of NY's gas tax revenue (as well as the general fund) goes to pay back loans that were used to build past projects.  Prior to Cuomo, the state operated on an EXTREMELY large deficit, going all the way back to Rockefeller.  The past habit of spending like money was no object is coming back to hurt NY now.

As far as I understand it, the pension fund operates like one giant 401k with the main difference being that a defined benefit is guaranteed to employees who retire.  Both the state and the employee contribute a set percentage; the retirement tiers change when the state wishes to change its contribution amount.  It actually costs the state more to keep people working than to pay their pension once they reach a certain age, which is why early retirement incentives occasionally happen.

As for I-86, exit 131 is still on the STIP mainly because there's a strong local push to get it built.  Exit 122 was just completed, as was the total reconstruction between NY 17K and I-84 (and NOW Schumer wants to widen that section...), and the bridge over the Neversink River.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's another unfunded project between exits 79 and 84, given the fact that I-86 ends at NY 79.

Prospect Mountain is the last project preventing the gap in the Southern Tier from being closed.  That and being a very high profile project is probably the reason why it's still going.  Aside from Hale Eddy and exit 131, the other projects aren't even sexy enough to put on the website, let along throw money at.

[machias]

Does anyone know if every new project go through the typical NYSDOT letting process? I keep close tabs on project plans and such through the NYSDOT website, but there are new sign projects going on in the Central New York area that I've never seen plans for.  I can't find PIN or contract numbers for some of these projects on the "Projects In Neighborhood" site... one example being the signing rehab project in R3 Oswego County on I-81. The SUNY POLY sign project in Utica is another example. Do some projects just skip the normal channels?

[Rothman]

Does anyone know if every new project go through the typical NYSDOT letting process? I keep close tabs on project plans and such through the NYSDOT website, but there are new sign projects going on in the Central New York area that I've never seen plans for.  I can't find PIN or contract numbers for some of these projects on the "Projects In Neighborhood" site... one example being the signing rehab project in R3 Oswego County on I-81. The SUNY POLY sign project in Utica is another example. Do some projects just skip the normal channels?

Not every project goes through the typical NYSDOT letting process (e.g., local lets, design-build and VPPs being the typical exceptions), but the signing rehab should have been on there. 

[Rothman]

Yeah, Exit 122 was one of those very old stragglers from the "statewide significant" days.  I'll check on Exit 131, but I'm betting it's in the same boat as Hale Eddy to Hancock.