New York

[cl94]

ALBANY — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday he wants to put $22 billion toward upstate's aging roads and bridges while spending another $1 billion to freeze tolls on the state Thruway.

Cuomo laid out part of his transportation plan at an event Wednesday in Liverpool, Onondaga County, the latest stop in a statewide tour this week that has seen him slowly roll out his agenda for 2016 ahead of his State of the State address and budget proposal Jan. 13.

The Democratic governor offered few specifics on his infrastructure spending push, but said the $22 billion would be spread out over five years. He also proposed spending $30 million on upstate New York's public-transportation systems.

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/06/cuomo-proposes-thruway-toll-freeze-22b-for-roads/78357802/

What would the money go to? Finishing I-86? Making I-90 4+ lanes from barrier to barrier in Buffalo? Finishing the Utica arterial?

Or is this just rhetoric? From what I understand most bridges cost under $50M to replace/repair.

Bridges and repaving are what has been announced. 200+ bridges and 1300 miles. Rest will be announced at the State of the State a week from today.

What stuck out most wasn't a highway project. They're putting funds toward triple-tracking the LIRR main line and expanding Penn Station with additional tunnels. Not only will that do a lot for the City and Long Island, but it will likely have a positive effect on traffic as more trains would be able to run.

As to where the money would go, good flipping question. I have a few educated guesses:

-If Region 1 and CDTC would get with the picture, some would undoubtedly go to widening the Northway south of Clifton Park, but that's not going to happen until pigs fly.
-I-81 rebuild/replacement in Syracuse. Again, an obvious one, but this one actually may happen.
-Possible US 9 improvements near NY 149 and NY 149 improvements
-NY 78 improvements near Buffalo
-NY 198 rebuild
-Statewide signal upgrades for coordination, FYAs, etc. Wouldn't shock me because the state is trending toward eliminating traditional span-wire signals and using double span wires or (increasingly) mast arms.
-Unlikely, but statewide exit renumbering. Cost is the excuse and this will provide the money not covered by the feds.
-Assorted interchange rebuilds. I wouldn't be shocked to see a lot more SPUIs and/or DDIs being constructed over the next few years.
-Sign replacements for reflectivity. As in bye-bye button copy and first-generation retroreflective signage. A lot of signage has been replaced recently (I'm looking at you, Regions 1 and 5), but there is still some bad stuff out there (I'm still trying to figure out how Region 1 hasn't replaced a very faded brown sign at I-87 Exit 13).

A good chunk of the Upstate public transit funding is likely going to the planned Albany BRT expansion and Buffalo Light Rail, with some to Syracuse for their BRT/light rail study.

[Duke87]

offering a tax credit worth 50 percent of tolls for passenger vehicles with E-Z Pass that rack up more than $50 in tolls annually

Of course they have to make this complicated by forcing people to account for it in their taxes. Because simply giving a larger discount for EZpass transactions wouldn't work.

What I find interesting about this idea though is that it is in a way a whole new level of transponder discrimination. In order to get the higher discount on Thruway tolls, you need to be a New York State taxpayer. No one from out of state will be able to take advantage even if they get a NY tag.

The $50 threshold is not that difficult to meet if you use the Tappan Zee Bridge, 11 eastbound crossings in a year will get you there. Though I have a sneaking suspicion that if this gets implemented Tappan Zee tolls will be explicitly excluded, for exactly that reason.

[Buffaboy]

offering a tax credit worth 50 percent of tolls for passenger vehicles with E-Z Pass that rack up more than $50 in tolls annually

Though I have a sneaking suspicion that if this gets implemented Tappan Zee tolls will be explicitly excluded, for exactly that reason.

Shh! There may be some NYSTA people browsing this, don't give them ideas!

Also, those are interesting ideas above. I wish some money could go to hastening the implementation of AET.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Bridges and repaving are what has been announced. 200+ bridges and 1300 miles. Rest will be announced at the State of the State a week from today.

What stuck out most wasn't a highway project. They're putting funds toward triple-tracking the LIRR main line and expanding Penn Station with additional tunnels. Not only will that do a lot for the City and Long Island, but it will likely have a positive effect on traffic as more trains would be able to run.

As to where the money would go, good flipping question. I have a few educated guesses:

-If Region 1 and CDTC would get with the picture, some would undoubtedly go to widening the Northway south of Clifton Park, but that's not going to happen until pigs fly.
-I-81 rebuild/replacement in Syracuse. Again, an obvious one, but this one actually may happen.
-Possible US 9 improvements near NY 149 and NY 149 improvements
-NY 78 improvements near Buffalo
-NY 198 rebuild
-Statewide signal upgrades for coordination, FYAs, etc. Wouldn't shock me because the state is trending toward eliminating traditional span-wire signals and using double span wires or (increasingly) mast arms.
-Unlikely, but statewide exit renumbering. Cost is the excuse and this will provide the money not covered by the feds.
-Assorted interchange rebuilds. I wouldn't be shocked to see a lot more SPUIs and/or DDIs being constructed over the next few years.
-Sign replacements for reflectivity. As in bye-bye button copy and first-generation retroreflective signage. A lot of signage has been replaced recently (I'm looking at you, Regions 1 and 5), but there is still some bad stuff out there (I'm still trying to figure out how Region 1 hasn't replaced a very faded brown sign at I-87 Exit 13).

A good chunk of the Upstate public transit funding is likely going to the planned Albany BRT expansion and Buffalo Light Rail, with some to Syracuse for their BRT/light rail study.

For those of us not with the ins, what's NY 149 and NY 78 need improvement in? (NY 78, aside of the Depew disaster with the Erie / NYC / LVRR bridges).

[cl94]

NY 149 needs upgrades near US 9. LOS F is common during the summer.

NY 78 needs work in Depew in addition to upgrades between I-90 and NY 263.

[Rothman]

I preface my comments to emphasize that they are my own opinion.

It is my belief that the Governor has made these announcements prior to informing the executive agencies of the specifics of his proposals.  As of right now, no major additions have been made to NYSDOT's capital program and actually, the program has been considered "frozen" since the program update in November.

Of course, "frozen" at NYSDOT is more on paper than in reality -- the program's constantly in flux -- but the current hold on the program as NYSDOT works through its program update means that NYSDOT will be waiting for word from above before doing anything.

That all said, my feel for the current expectations is that the announcements are really just going to boil down to not much "extra" money, but the Governor making room in the program for a dozen or so truly major projects -- yet to be enunciated clearly.

So, if my opinion turns out to become reality, the real question is what will move out and if the new projects coming in will have greater benefits than those that had to make room for them.

[vdeane]

I would not at all be surprised if this was actually the TOTAL amount of money that will be spent over the next five years, NOT an additional amount over the regular budget.  He did just announce $7 billion for upstate transportation a couple days ago, after all.  This could be the normal amount for the agency budgets with the $7 billion added in.

What I find interesting about this idea though is that it is in a way a whole new level of transponder discrimination. In order to get the higher discount on Thruway tolls, you need to be a New York State taxpayer. No one from out of state will be able to take advantage even if they get a NY tag.

I don't think he mentioned E-ZPass, which would have the effect of incentivising cash usage if someone's usual annual toll amount is near $50.  It also has the effect of possibly having some people forgetting to do this or deciding it's not worth the effort, giving the state money (like how companies profit off of rebates).  Also, the reason he's doing this is to promote business in upstate NY... it's kinda a way of saying "you've gotta move your operations to NY to take advantage of this discount".

-Sign replacements for reflectivity. As in bye-bye button copy and first-generation retroreflective signage. A lot of signage has been replaced recently (I'm looking at you, Regions 1 and 5), but there is still some bad stuff out there (I'm still trying to figure out how Region 1 hasn't replaced a very faded brown sign at I-87 Exit 13).

Region 1 hasn't actually been doing much guide sign replacements as of late.  The newer style exit tabs are VERY rare here - I'm actually not sure if we have ANY of the rounded corner style that became common in other regions around 2010, and only a few of our signs use the modern style adopted in the past couple years (I can think of three and only three).  Almost all of our signs are late 90s/00s style.

We did a couple of mile marker/gore sign replacements last year, though we don't usually do dedicated sign replacement projects.  The City of Albany replaced some of their signs for state highways over the last few years, which decimated the state named interstate shields in the area.

The button copy signs near Latham Circle are still holding on.

Region 4, on the other hand, replaces a few overhead signs every year.  I imagine a contract for this year will appear online at some point.

[Duke87]

I don't think he mentioned E-ZPass

The WGRZ article linked above did.


As for all of these ideas, it's important to realize that in politics, seemingly radical proposals, good or bad, never get implemented as originally proposed. The governor is proposing a bunch of big things as a starting point for haggling, the eventual end result will be a scaled back version where some things happen as planned, some things happen differently or in a less grandiose manner, and some things simply don't happen.

Given how Albany has committed to giving the MTA a bunch of money, though, typical NY politics dictate that an equal sum of money be given to various items upstate.

DOT really needs the money although it is short sighted to be putting so much focus on building new things when funding levels as they stand are insufficient to prevent what we already have from falling apart.

[cl94]

I don't think he mentioned E-ZPass

The WGRZ article linked above did.


As for all of these ideas, it's important to realize that in politics, seemingly radical proposals, good or bad, never get implemented as originally proposed. The governor is proposing a bunch of big things as a starting point for haggling, the eventual end result will be a scaled back version where some things happen as planned, some things happen differently or in a less grandiose manner, and some things simply don't happen.

Given how Albany has committed to giving the MTA a bunch of money, though, typical NY politics dictate that an equal sum of money be given to various items upstate.

DOT really needs the money although it is short sighted to be putting so much focus on building new things when funding levels as they stand are insufficient to prevent what we already have from falling apart.

Given the language of the announcement, I think the money will go more towards keeping stuff from falling apart and operational improvements. As far as new stuff is concerned, no new "highway" is required that would not be considered an "upgrade".

Region 1 hasn't actually been doing much guide sign replacements as of late.  The newer style exit tabs are VERY rare here - I'm actually not sure if we have ANY of the rounded corner style that became common in other regions around 2010, and only a few of our signs use the modern style adopted in the past couple years (I can think of three and only three).  Almost all of our signs are late 90s/00s style.

I wasn't necessarily referring to guide signage, but the example is a particularly bad sign that is becoming difficult to read during the day. In quite a few places, shields have been replaced more than once since the early 2000s. How do I know that? Because a bunch of Interstate shields that were once state name are on their second neutered iteration. Last I checked, there were exactly 3 state name shields left. 787 recently had a bunch of sign replacements. Tabs at I-90 aren't rounded, but those signs were put up this year. I wasn't paying particularly close attention, but some signs at I-87 Exit 2 appear new.

Region 1 also got rid of most button copy pretty early on. Once upon a time, everything at the I-87/I-90 interchange was button copy excluding the backlit sign. The only original (1980s) signs left are in NYSTA territory (and a set was flushed out by the widening). Most of the region's signage was retroreflective by the turn of the century. Just about everything out there is less than 20 years old and in many cases closer to 10 (I-90 had full replacements when it was rebuilt).

[Rothman]

Given how Albany has committed to giving the MTA a bunch of money, though, typical NY politics dictate that an equal sum of money be given to various items upstate.

Someone hasn't studied the specific, peculiar history of the parity issue between NYSDOT and MTA.  For as long as I've worked at NYSDOT, NYSDOT has raised the parity issue annually -- to no avail.  NYSDOT scurries around getting all sorts of data and fiscal information in the spring and...nothing ever happened parity-wise of any note.

That said, this is the first time in a decade where a bone might actually be thrown NYSDOT's way, but see my earlier post.  It's probably only going to be mostly a reshuffling of the projects currently in the pipeline rather than a windfall for all sorts of new projects to pursue for NYSDOT (LIRR ain't NYSDOT, for one example).

Also, anyone want to start a consulting firm with me?  We can bid for that Long Island Sound crossing study.  I've got four previous studies that were done here; we can just mostly copy those, take our time saying we're working hard, and then walk away with a cool $5m.

(personal opinion expressed)

[cl94]

New plans are out today. Region 5 is widening US 62 from the railroad overpass just east of the Niagara Falls airport out to Sy Road to include a full center turn lane. Only a minuscule portion of the dangerous section, but it's a start.

[Buffaboy]

New plans are out today. Region 5 is widening US 62 from the railroad overpass just east of the Niagara Falls airport out to Sy Road to include a full center turn lane. Only a minuscule portion of the dangerous section, but it's a start.

I'm not familiar with that area, but it seems to be a worthwhile project.

What will happen under the bridge?

[Buffaboy]

It's not worth the money to reconfigure this road. If they put up Jersey barriers with RIROs, won't this solve the problem?

[cl94]

New plans are out today. Region 5 is widening US 62 from the railroad overpass just east of the Niagara Falls airport out to Sy Road to include a full center turn lane. Only a minuscule portion of the dangerous section, but it's a start.

I'm not familiar with that area, but it seems to be a worthwhile project.

What will happen under the bridge?

Bridge is already divided. Something similar to what currently happens on the west side.

It's not worth the money to reconfigure this road. If they put up Jersey barriers with RIROs, won't this solve the problem?

I saw the story and I know enough about this area to know that there is enough shunpike traffic to make a passing lane quite welcome. Enough people west of where the right lane ends go below the speed limit. You'll get road rage because people can't pass over a center turn lane. Center turn lanes are discouraged over 45 MPH because of the risk of head-ons, anyway. If anything, put in turn lanes at the intersections and leave it at that. Relatively inexpensive without decreasing capacity.

[Buffaboy]

New plans are out today. Region 5 is widening US 62 from the railroad overpass just east of the Niagara Falls airport out to Sy Road to include a full center turn lane. Only a minuscule portion of the dangerous section, but it's a start.

I'm not familiar with that area, but it seems to be a worthwhile project.

What will happen under the bridge?

Bridge is already divided. Something similar to what currently happens on the west side.

It's not worth the money to reconfigure this road. If they put up Jersey barriers with RIROs, won't this solve the problem?

I saw the story and I know enough about this area to know that there is enough shunpike traffic to make a passing lane quite welcome. Enough people west of where the right lane ends go below the speed limit. You'll get road rage because people can't pass over a center turn lane. Center turn lanes are discouraged over 45 MPH because of the risk of head-ons, anyway. If anything, put in turn lanes at the intersections and leave it at that. Relatively inexpensive without decreasing capacity.

Passing lane? Isn't that why it's a 4 lane highway?

Also, I definitely don't think a speed limit decrease should be considered for that stretch of road. Anybody who lives in the Southtowns knows that it's a long haul to get from NY 75 to Lakeview and beyond on US 20.

In addition, cl94, do you have an idea why the lights are supposedly timed to stop traffic frequently on US 20 from NY 75 to NY 240/277? That's according to some who I've spoken to that drive the route daily from Hamburg to Orchard Park/West Seneca. Since I've lived there for almost 2 decades now, I never really noticed it until now, but I do believe it because the lights appear to be spread out further after NY 240/277.

[cl94]

New plans are out today. Region 5 is widening US 62 from the railroad overpass just east of the Niagara Falls airport out to Sy Road to include a full center turn lane. Only a minuscule portion of the dangerous section, but it's a start.

I'm not familiar with that area, but it seems to be a worthwhile project.

What will happen under the bridge?

Bridge is already divided. Something similar to what currently happens on the west side.

It's not worth the money to reconfigure this road. If they put up Jersey barriers with RIROs, won't this solve the problem?

I saw the story and I know enough about this area to know that there is enough shunpike traffic to make a passing lane quite welcome. Enough people west of where the right lane ends go below the speed limit. You'll get road rage because people can't pass over a center turn lane. Center turn lanes are discouraged over 45 MPH because of the risk of head-ons, anyway. If anything, put in turn lanes at the intersections and leave it at that. Relatively inexpensive without decreasing capacity.

Passing lane? Isn't that why it's a 4 lane highway?

Also, I definitely don't think a speed limit decrease should be considered for that stretch of road. Anybody who lives in the Southtowns knows that it's a long haul to get from NY 75 to Lakeview and beyond on US 20.

In addition, cl94, do you have an idea why the lights are supposedly timed to stop traffic frequently on US 20 from NY 75 to NY 240/277? That's according to some who I've spoken to that drive the route daily from Hamburg to Orchard Park/West Seneca. Since I've lived there for almost 2 decades now, I never really noticed it until now, but I do believe it because the lights appear to be spread out further after NY 240/277.

They're unsynchronized and actuated. Purely coincidence. Little in the Buffalo area is synchronized. The Elm/Oak corridor and a short stretch of Delaware is all that is active at this point.

The current setup is what I was referring to by "passing lane"

[Buffaboy]

^^ I could practically start a thread on "streets that need to be synchronized" because US 20 in the Southtowns, NY 78 and definitely the Elm/Oak corridor (which is already synched) come to mind. Maybe Sheridan and E/W trunk roads like Broadway and Walden as well.

[cl94]

Plan day at NYSDOT. Big one is the much-planned rebuild at the intersection of Walden Avenue (NY 952Q) and CR 57 (Central Avenue) in Lancaster. Plans here.

Unusual for R5, SB signals are on span wire AND they're putting in a channelized RT lane. While channelized lanes are often bad, this is a good spot for one due to the heavy turn traffic and relatively-light pedestrian usage.

[D-Dey65]

As to where the money would go, good flipping question.

Do you know what'd be a good project to use that money for in Region 8? Filling in the damn Bear Mountain Parkway gap!

[cl94]

As to where the money would go, good flipping question.

Do you know what'd be a good project to use that money for in Region 8? Filling in the damn Bear Mountain Parkway gap!

Thank you. They did rebuild some of that area recently, but it isn't enough. The ROW even exists.

[empirestate]

As to where the money would go, good flipping question.

Do you know what'd be a good project to use that money for in Region 8? Filling in the damn Bear Mountain Parkway gap!

Thank you. They did rebuild some of that area recently, but it isn't enough. The ROW even exists.

Meh, I'd rather they do something about 6 through Lake Mohegan.


iPhone

[Roadgeek Adam]

Plan day at NYSDOT. Big one is the much-planned rebuild at the intersection of Walden Avenue (NY 952Q) and CR 57 (Central Avenue) in Lancaster. Plans here.

Unusual for R5, SB signals are on span wire AND they're putting in a channelized RT lane. While channelized lanes are often bad, this is a good spot for one due to the heavy turn traffic and relatively-light pedestrian usage.

It would've been nice if this meant 952Q would be decom'd for a touring route. But, nope.

[cl94]

Plan day at NYSDOT. Big one is the much-planned rebuild at the intersection of Walden Avenue (NY 952Q) and CR 57 (Central Avenue) in Lancaster. Plans here.

Unusual for R5, SB signals are on span wire AND they're putting in a channelized RT lane. While channelized lanes are often bad, this is a good spot for one due to the heavy turn traffic and relatively-light pedestrian usage.

It would've been nice if this meant 952Q would be decom'd for a touring route. But, nope.

If it wasn't for the lack of a good connection and the Tops distribution center, I'd swap the designation with NY 33 east of NY 78 and discourage truck traffic on current NY 33. It's used as a shunpike by less-experienced truckers.

Currently, Central Avenue NB has an advanced green with a leading left, while both directions get a lagging left if it senses a vehicle. SB congestion is miserable during the week as the SB phase is short and people don't know how to accelerate. NB needs 2 lanes because of the nearby high school. Per the plans, everything will be done during the summer. If this was R1 or R4, there would likely be FYAs at the intersection, but that's another story...

[Buffaboy]

Plan day at NYSDOT. Big one is the much-planned rebuild at the intersection of Walden Avenue (NY 952Q) and CR 57 (Central Avenue) in Lancaster. Plans here.

Unusual for R5, SB signals are on span wire AND they're putting in a channelized RT lane. While channelized lanes are often bad, this is a good spot for one due to the heavy turn traffic and relatively-light pedestrian usage.

It would've been nice if this meant 952Q would be decom'd for a touring route. But, nope.

If it wasn't for the lack of a good connection and the Tops distribution center, I'd swap the designation with NY 33 east of NY 78 and discourage truck traffic on current NY 33. It's used as a shunpike by less-experienced truckers.

Currently, Central Avenue NB has an advanced green with a leading left, while both directions get a lagging left if it senses a vehicle. SB congestion is miserable during the week as the SB phase is short and people don't know how to accelerate. NB needs 2 lanes because of the nearby high school. Per the plans, everything will be done during the summer. If this was R1 or R4, there would likely be FYAs at the intersection, but that's another story...

Yes, east of Transit, NY 33 is a very primitive 2-lane shunpike, especially for truckers. They would be better off going south to Walden.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Plan day at NYSDOT. Big one is the much-planned rebuild at the intersection of Walden Avenue (NY 952Q) and CR 57 (Central Avenue) in Lancaster. Plans here.

Unusual for R5, SB signals are on span wire AND they're putting in a channelized RT lane. While channelized lanes are often bad, this is a good spot for one due to the heavy turn traffic and relatively-light pedestrian usage.

It would've been nice if this meant 952Q would be decom'd for a touring route. But, nope.

If it wasn't for the lack of a good connection and the Tops distribution center, I'd swap the designation with NY 33 east of NY 78 and discourage truck traffic on current NY 33. It's used as a shunpike by less-experienced truckers.

Currently, Central Avenue NB has an advanced green with a leading left, while both directions get a lagging left if it senses a vehicle. SB congestion is miserable during the week as the SB phase is short and people don't know how to accelerate. NB needs 2 lanes because of the nearby high school. Per the plans, everything will be done during the summer. If this was R1 or R4, there would likely be FYAs at the intersection, but that's another story...

I'd still prefer something like 333 or 267 to be assigned to the stretch between the city of Buffalo and the changed 33.