New York

[vdeane]

I was watching the Capital District (really Albany/Rensselaer) meet and the bits about the Southside Route reignited some questions in my head.  It seems to be conventional opinion that I-87 was supposed to follow the Southside Route to exit 23, but I'm not sure that's true.  The proposed interchange to tie into I-787 and the Mid-Crosstown appears to have no provisions at all for connecting it to the Thruway.  Moreover, the Ultimate Highway Network map (bottom of page) uses the same design and has the Thruway labeled as I-87, and doesn't show anything else that would tie the route in, except via the overlap with I-90 that exists in real life, unless perhaps something would have been worked into the Southside/NY 85 interchange (not depicted for whatever reason).  Does anyone know anything more about how this would have fit together?

[Alps]

I was watching the Capital District (really Albany/Rensselaer) meet and the bits about the Southside Route reignited some questions in my head.  It seems to be conventional opinion that I-87 was supposed to follow the Southside Route to exit 23, but I'm not sure that's true.  The proposed interchange to tie into I-787 and the Mid-Crosstown appears to have no provisions at all for connecting it to the Thruway.  Moreover, the Ultimate Highway Network map (bottom of page) uses the same design and has the Thruway labeled as I-87, and doesn't show anything else that would tie the route in, except via the overlap with I-90 that exists in real life, unless perhaps something would have been worked into the Southside/NY 85 interchange (not depicted for whatever reason).  Does anyone know anything more about how this would have fit together?

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[cl94]

AFAIK, the transition I-87 would have used was never fully defined.

[The Ghostbuster]

Are they still planning to downgrade Interstate 787 into an at-grade boulevard, or removing a portion of it? If Interstate 787 is maintained, I would suggest modifying the southern terminus so Interstate 787 doesn't have to exit to access the Interstate 87/New York State Thruway.

[kalvado]

Are they still planning to downgrade Interstate 787 into an at-grade boulevard, or removing a portion of it? If Interstate 787 is maintained, I would suggest modifying the southern terminus so Interstate 787 doesn't have to exit to access the Interstate 87/New York State Thruway.

787 is not going anywhere at this point, but there is a rabid urbanist crowd blaming all the city problems on 787.
While this is a pipe dream for Albany, this is their main point:
https://i.redd.it/m61dwhwu4tx71.jpg

[cl94]

Are they still planning to downgrade Interstate 787 into an at-grade boulevard, or removing a portion of it? If Interstate 787 is maintained, I would suggest modifying the southern terminus so Interstate 787 doesn't have to exit to access the Interstate 87/New York State Thruway.

787 is staying for a while. Even the very pro-transit MPO is against tearing it down. Part of it is because the entire downtown freeway system was *just* rehabbed and will be good for another 30-40 years. Aside from a very vocal small group of people who believe that ripping out 787 will magically bring the city back, there isn't much desire to remove it.

2019 AADT through downtown was in the area of 40-45k, a large portion of that being commuters to the various state office complexes or trucks serving the port. There's also the little issue of an elevated rail line running down the median and 787 being part of the city's flood protection system. Note that 787 through downtown was built on a railyard and port facilities.

[Rothman]

I'm still waiting for the ramp park to be built in the I-787/US 9 interchange.

[empirestate]

2019 AADT through downtown was in the area of 40-45k, a large portion of that being commuters to the various state office complexes or trucks serving the port. There's also the little issue of an elevated rail line running down the median and 787 being part of the city's flood protection system. Note that 787 through downtown was built on a railyard and port facilities.

Many of these revitalized riverfronts are reclaimed railroad/wharf/industrial areas; in fact, I'd even extend that to a lot of the preserved open spaces away from the waterfront, too. Whatever value one places on these passive recreation areas, it's worth noting that that, in itself, is another new use, not usually a reversion to an earlier use.

[Alps]

I'm still waiting for the ramp park to be built in the I-787/US 9 interchange.

I-787/US 9 could probably be downgraded to a diamond interchange (or variant thereof) and free up some nice land.

[kalvado]

I'm still waiting for the ramp park to be built in the I-787/US 9 interchange.

I-787/US 9 could probably be downgraded to a diamond interchange (or variant thereof) and free up some nice land.

I don't think there is such thing as nice land in Albany - or in city centers of nearby cities.
If you want to get a flavor of it, look up the saga of 1 Monument square in Troy.

[kalvado]

I'm still waiting for the ramp park to be built in the I-787/US 9 interchange.

I-787/US 9 could probably be downgraded to a diamond interchange (or variant thereof) and free up some nice land.

Oh, and one thing to keep in mind about that interchange:
Hudson is a navigable river at that point, so Dunn bridge (Rt. 9) has 60' vertical clearance above the channel (in high tide, I assume, and yes - Hudson is tidal in Albany)
if you look at the other side of the river, there is seemingly meaningless 360 deg ramp to the bridge. It is actually a descent ramp.

[lstone19]

Oh, and one thing to keep in mind about that interchange:
Hudson is a navigable river at that point, so Dunn bridge (Rt. 9) has 60' vertical clearance above the channel (in high tide, I assume, and yes - Hudson is tidal in Albany)
if you look at the other side of the river, there is seemingly meaningless 360 deg ramp to the bridge. It is actually a descent ramp.

I believe technically, it's not a river south of Troy, it's a tidal estuary (as is the East River which is even less of a river). More specifically, it appears to be a "drowned river valley" type of estuary.

[kalvado]

Oh, and one thing to keep in mind about that interchange:
Hudson is a navigable river at that point, so Dunn bridge (Rt. 9) has 60' vertical clearance above the channel (in high tide, I assume, and yes - Hudson is tidal in Albany)
if you look at the other side of the river, there is seemingly meaningless 360 deg ramp to the bridge. It is actually a descent ramp.

I believe technically, it's not a river south of Troy, it's a tidal estuary (as is the East River which is even less of a river). More specifically, it appears to be a "drowned river valley" type of estuary.

It is, and in a sense I mentioned that when I referred to tides in Albany. but I believe the legal name for that body of water is still "Hudson River".

[Rothman]

I'm still waiting for the ramp park to be built in the I-787/US 9 interchange.

I-787/US 9 could probably be downgraded to a diamond interchange (or variant thereof) and free up some nice land.

Oh, and one thing to keep in mind about that interchange:
Hudson is a navigable river at that point, so Dunn bridge (Rt. 9) has 60' vertical clearance above the channel (in high tide, I assume, and yes - Hudson is tidal in Albany)
if you look at the other side of the river, there is seemingly meaningless 360 deg ramp to the bridge. It is actually a descent ramp.

I am talking about the northern interchange at Clinton Ave.

[lstone19]

It is, and in a sense I mentioned that when I referred to tides in Albany. but I believe the legal name for that body of water is still "Hudson River".

Of course. But lots of things have names that are not or at least no longer correct for them now that we know more about them.

To bring this back to roads, I remember someone not quite getting it when he found out that my grandparent's upstate NY summer home was on a street named Lake Parkway. It was a one-lane unpaved dead-end road but as soon as he heard Parkway, assumed normal NYS parkway rules as in "how can you have a house on a parkway" and "how do commercial vehicles get to the house if it's on a parkway."

[Alps]

I'm still waiting for the ramp park to be built in the I-787/US 9 interchange.

I-787/US 9 could probably be downgraded to a diamond interchange (or variant thereof) and free up some nice land.

Oh, and one thing to keep in mind about that interchange:
Hudson is a navigable river at that point, so Dunn bridge (Rt. 9) has 60' vertical clearance above the channel (in high tide, I assume, and yes - Hudson is tidal in Albany)
if you look at the other side of the river, there is seemingly meaningless 360 deg ramp to the bridge. It is actually a descent ramp.

Ya know, I was thinking of US 9/I-90. Don't mind me.

[mariethefoxy]

I noticed the error on the previous sign at the 287 exit from 95 south was carried over onto the new signage. The sign is completely missing an I-287 shield and only references Cross Westchester Expressway

[MASTERNC]

I wish MTA would stop the transponder discrimination, but I'll probably start using the Verrazano both ways now every time.

This right here... when in the hell did this start? I've had a MD ez pass for over 15 years why do I need to pay the cash rate? If that's the case why use my ez pass at all?

Don't you know the answer?
Because you don't vote here, and we need money. EZpass is about convenience as much as it is about rates. With AET you would pay cash rate + overhead anyway.

Well that also is a factor in it but how can they keep saying it's faster when pretty much most states don't have toll booths as well. I understand some may forget or never get the toll by mail but I guess any extra money no matter the means is extra income.

But IMHO, it's a broken promise. It was originally billed as an EZ-Pass is an EZ-Pass and you just needed one. But quickly morphed into not all EZ-Passes are the same and where yours was issued affects what you pay. I would not be surprised if some people get multiple ones so they can get the various state discounts and change them as they move from one state to another. At least Illinois, where I live, extends the EZ/I-Pass rate to all EZ-Passes but it's the exception these days.

Which will likely change the next time ISTHA needs more revenue for capital projects or there's a severe shortfall for operations. It did last for quite a while that you paid the discounted EZPass rate wherever you went. That mostly went out the window when agencies started moving to cashless tolling options, because I think the original idea baked into the discount is "we pay for fewer toll takers since fewer lanes are manned". I do also find it annoying, but that is the way of the world and there's little anyone can do about it. I fully expect that the next phase will be for state residency requirements for transponder service centers, so you'll suddenly have a lot of NJ residents who got NYS transponders to get tolling discounts for MTABT tolls and the like (since PANYNJ doesn't have any transponder discrimination, and even if they started that, given the bi-state nature of the agency, I imagine they'd include both NJCSC and the various NY agencies that issue transponders to continue to get discounted rate) be stuck having to pay the full tolls because they're not NYS residents.

I got my Maryland one away back when they did not charge service fees (they do now) I did have a MTA toll tag but I can't find it plus I used to live in NJ so the replenish amount was almost around $300 I ended up paying in cash or getting billed by plate.

When I first moved to Maryland, I also had a MD pass.  I also dropped it when they started imposing the monthly fee.  I was able to get a MTA tag, which doesn't charge a monthly fee.  [That is usually hard to get as an out-of-state resident, since they try to push the PANYNJ tags which do charge a monthly fee.  I was able to get one by using  my sister's NY address and then later changing it to my billing address.]

Once Larry Hogan became governor of MD, he put in place several motorist friendly provisions like reducing tolls and ending the monthly fee on EZ-Pass by executive order.  Even though MD's EZ-Pass is now free of the monthly fee, I decided to keep my MTA pass, since it is easy for a new governor to simply re-impose the fee in MD, but in NY the fee cannot be imposed without new legislation.  I do take advantage of the lower fees with a NY EZ-Pass when I am in the NY area, but I have to pay the out-of-state rates when crossing the toll bridges in MD.


https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-news-items/e-zpass-everyone

Maryland's E-ZPass still has a monthly fee if you don't have a MD address and don't have 3 Maryland toll transactions in a month.  I have the Hatem Bridge E-ZPass ($20/yr, only works on that bridge) on top of my New York one, because that crossing is the largest single toll on my drive between Baltimore/DC and Philadelphia.

[Rothman]

I wish MTA would stop the transponder discrimination, but I'll probably start using the Verrazano both ways now every time.

This right here... when in the hell did this start? I've had a MD ez pass for over 15 years why do I need to pay the cash rate? If that's the case why use my ez pass at all?

Don't you know the answer?
Because you don't vote here, and we need money. EZpass is about convenience as much as it is about rates. With AET you would pay cash rate + overhead anyway.

Well that also is a factor in it but how can they keep saying it's faster when pretty much most states don't have toll booths as well. I understand some may forget or never get the toll by mail but I guess any extra money no matter the means is extra income.

But IMHO, it's a broken promise. It was originally billed as an EZ-Pass is an EZ-Pass and you just needed one. But quickly morphed into not all EZ-Passes are the same and where yours was issued affects what you pay. I would not be surprised if some people get multiple ones so they can get the various state discounts and change them as they move from one state to another. At least Illinois, where I live, extends the EZ/I-Pass rate to all EZ-Passes but it's the exception these days.

Which will likely change the next time ISTHA needs more revenue for capital projects or there's a severe shortfall for operations. It did last for quite a while that you paid the discounted EZPass rate wherever you went. That mostly went out the window when agencies started moving to cashless tolling options, because I think the original idea baked into the discount is "we pay for fewer toll takers since fewer lanes are manned". I do also find it annoying, but that is the way of the world and there's little anyone can do about it. I fully expect that the next phase will be for state residency requirements for transponder service centers, so you'll suddenly have a lot of NJ residents who got NYS transponders to get tolling discounts for MTABT tolls and the like (since PANYNJ doesn't have any transponder discrimination, and even if they started that, given the bi-state nature of the agency, I imagine they'd include both NJCSC and the various NY agencies that issue transponders to continue to get discounted rate) be stuck having to pay the full tolls because they're not NYS residents.

I got my Maryland one away back when they did not charge service fees (they do now) I did have a MTA toll tag but I can't find it plus I used to live in NJ so the replenish amount was almost around $300 I ended up paying in cash or getting billed by plate.

When I first moved to Maryland, I also had a MD pass.  I also dropped it when they started imposing the monthly fee.  I was able to get a MTA tag, which doesn't charge a monthly fee.  [That is usually hard to get as an out-of-state resident, since they try to push the PANYNJ tags which do charge a monthly fee.  I was able to get one by using  my sister's NY address and then later changing it to my billing address.]

Once Larry Hogan became governor of MD, he put in place several motorist friendly provisions like reducing tolls and ending the monthly fee on EZ-Pass by executive order.  Even though MD's EZ-Pass is now free of the monthly fee, I decided to keep my MTA pass, since it is easy for a new governor to simply re-impose the fee in MD, but in NY the fee cannot be imposed without new legislation.  I do take advantage of the lower fees with a NY EZ-Pass when I am in the NY area, but I have to pay the out-of-state rates when crossing the toll bridges in MD.


https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-news-items/e-zpass-everyone

Maryland's E-ZPass still has a monthly fee if you don't have a MD address and don't have 3 Maryland toll transactions in a month.  I have the Hatem Bridge E-ZPass ($20/yr, only works on that bridge) on top of my New York one, because that crossing is the largest single toll on my drive between Baltimore/DC and Philadelphia.

Why do you have to take the Hatem?

[Roadgeek Adam]

My father still uses his PANYNJ EZ-Pass when he needs one because he's ok with the monthly fee and feels that having the bi-state one benefits him. I personally still own my iPass from IL and use that instead of a NY one. Neither of us are that bothered by the transponder discrimination, though it would never hurt to stop that practice.

[steviep24]

Cross-posting this from another thread, regarding the intersection of NY 286 and Five Mile Line Road in Penfield:

intersection improvements at this intersection are now complete! There's new left turn lanes on all approaches and a southbound right turn lane. Sidewalks, crosswalks, and striping aren't quite finished yet, but functionally it's more or less complete, and it's about time! Now a much smoother experience than the previous shoulder-bumping stop-and-go slugfest.

I was in that area today. Looks really nice there.

In addition the new signals they installed there (which as of today are not yet in operation) appears to have video detection cameras installed in addition to the surveillance cameras. If that is the case that will be a first intersection with video detection at least in the Rochester area as far as I know. We'll see how that works out when we have a heavy snow fall.

[vdeane]

Maryland's E-ZPass still has a monthly fee if you don't have a MD address and don't have 3 Maryland toll transactions in a month.  I have the Hatem Bridge E-ZPass ($20/yr, only works on that bridge) on top of my New York one, because that crossing is the largest single toll on my drive between Baltimore/DC and Philadelphia.

Why do you have to take the Hatem?

Doesn't the Hatem have a good commuter plan that makes it significantly cheaper than I-95 for frequent travelers?

[Rothman]

Maryland's E-ZPass still has a monthly fee if you don't have a MD address and don't have 3 Maryland toll transactions in a month.  I have the Hatem Bridge E-ZPass ($20/yr, only works on that bridge) on top of my New York one, because that crossing is the largest single toll on my drive between Baltimore/DC and Philadelphia.

Why do you have to take the Hatem?

Doesn't the Hatem have a good commuter plan that makes it significantly cheaper than I-95 for frequent travelers?

Is it $20/yr for unlimited use?  I suppose as long as you drive up that way at least three times a year, it's a deal with a time cost.

[mariethefoxy]

Region 10 seems to be doing the Connecticut thing where they are eliminating overhead signs and replacing them with ground mounted ones. There are a few examples of this on Northern Parkway by Exits 37-37A and 44-45 and Sunken Meadow Parkway by Exit SM1. A handful of the overhead gore signs on Sunrise Highway are now ground mounted or missing entirely.

[SignBridge]

I noticed that today at Exit 37A eastbound on N.S. Pkwy. There is now both an overhead and ground mounted sign for 1/4 mile.