The Nancy Hawks Rest Area in Dale is featured. I-64 is void of places to stop at now!
https://www.truckersnews.com/indiana-plans-to-close-rest-area-on-i-64/?utm_source=tn&utm_medium=email&utm_content=01-15-2019&utm_campaign=Truckers%20News&ust_id=1715553d31fa1cb313b635052c2e47f5
Frustrating to see many states doing this. Rest stations are great for people to pull over and relax. I don't like gas stations or truck stops for this. I wonder if there are any studies linking more rest areas to less accidents due to drowsy or sleeping drivers?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2019, 05:11:04 AM
Frustrating to see many states doing this. Rest stations are great for people to pull over and relax. I don't like gas stations or truck stops for this. I wonder if there are any studies linking more rest areas to less accidents due to drowsy or sleeping drivers?
Benefits of Public Roadside Safety Rest Areas in Texas
https://static.tti.tamu.edu/tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-6267-2.pdf
Excerpt:
Highway Users
For the highway user, safety rest areas typically serve to enhance safety, improve comfort and convenience, reduce excess driving, and accommodate the scheduling and staging of commercial motor vehicles.
Safety Benefits
The determination of safety-related benefits attributable to safety rest areas is challenged by two fundamental factors:
- Safety rest areas must be used by motorists to effectively reduce the frequency or severity of crashes–the mere existence of a safety rest area does not directly affect safety (except for the potentially adverse effects of additional merging and lane changing near the facility's entrances and exits, which have been anecdotally reported to be minimal).
- Any observed safety effects resulting from the use of a safety rest area are not direct–safety rest area use may affect driver performance or actions, which, in turn, are potentially contributing causes to crashes (King 1989).
Note that these challenges do not suggest a lack of relationship between safety rest areas and safety outcomes but simply point to the difficulties in quantifying the relationship. Supporting data must effectively characterize not only changes in safety outcomes related to the presence and subsequent use of a safety rest area facility, but also any concomitant changes in related factors known to contribute to crashes.
Probable contributing factors are numerous. Rest areas serve to enhance safety by: reducing driver fatigue and other adverse physiological effects; reducing voluntary shoulder stops; providing a safe refuge under hazardous weather, roadway, and visibility conditions; reducing involuntary stops and vehicle-miles of travel by defective vehicles; reducing in-vehicle driver distraction resulting from a restless pet or child; and communicating safety-related information to drivers.
I always figured that I-64 in southern Indiana would qualify as one of those freeways that would never need to be widened to six lanes (that forum post.) I can concur that there's not much in the way of services or parking along nearly that whole stretch of highway. Around the rest areas the two exits on either side DO have a few things but beyond that there's a gas station at SR 37 and a truck stop at Leavenworth and that's it all the way to Corydon.
Doing a quick calcuation it is a 145 mile gap for eastbound traffic from the Welcome Center at the Wabash River to the Kentucky Welcome Center east of Louisville, that's an awful long gap between rest areas for anywhere in the United States. Westbound traffic have a slightly smaller gap from west of New Albany out to the Wabash River.
If money's such an issue, why doesn't INDOT just build one rest area off one of the empty interchanges along I-64? For instance, Exit 72 at SR 145, not much of anything there. One rest area with a decent parking lot that can be accessed by both sides of the highway.
Traffic counts taken from INDOT website:
Welcome Center EB near Illinois state line: 488/day
Dale EB: 635/day
Dale WB: 656/day
Welcome Center WB near New Albany: 712/day
One can find both Dale rest stops full of trucks on any given weeknight. The ramps are also commonly stacked with trucks. This is a foolish decision IMO.
INDOT recently installed new roofing on both buildings and a Dale town council member stated new electrical wiring was ran under I-64 to both rest stops in 2016. The buildings look very clean and well kept. INDOT simply doesn't want to pay for them, period. Lack of use is not a valid excuse.
Foolish move by INDOT. I live in the Evansville area, and on trips out east and even in the area, I will stop in the rest area most of the time. I bemoan the fact that INDOT in a cost cutting decision did not put in a rest area on the new I-69 in Daviess County. They were going to have one rest area that would be connected to both north and south bound traffic. I think this is one of those penny wise but pound foolish decision.
They're holding off for now. I still think it's strange to close such conveniently-located (and often busy, regardless of what their numbers may indicate) stops. But evidently these will close at some point. How soon? Who knows?
https://duboiscountyherald.com/b/dale-area-rest-stops-to-remain-open-for-now
I apologize for resureceting this thread but I figured this would be relevant. My father and I took a trip around Southern Indiana yesterday and we saw that the I-64 rest area/welcome center at Lanesville in Floyd County. I don't remember hearing anything about this on here or even in the press but it looked as if the closure was permanent. I didn't know if anyone in that area knew what was going on.
Doing some calculations I saw there is now a 126-mile gap between the last westbound rest area in Kentucky, before Frankfort, and the Nancy Hanks rest areas around Dale. At least those rest areas were still opened at the beginning of 2020 when we passed them by earlier. They didn't look too busy but there was enough motorists and trucks there that it was being utilized.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 02, 2020, 08:06:28 AM
I apologize for resureceting this thread but I figured this would be relevant. My father and I took a trip around Southern Indiana yesterday and we saw that the I-64 rest area/welcome center at Lanesville in Floyd County. I don't remember hearing anything about this on here or even in the press but it looked as if the closure was permanent. I didn't know if anyone in that area knew what was going on.
Doing some calculations I saw there is now a 126-mile gap between the last westbound rest area in Kentucky, before Frankfort, and the Nancy Hanks rest areas around Dale. At least those rest areas were still opened at the beginning of 2020 when we passed them by earlier. They didn't look too busy but there was enough motorists and trucks there that it was being utilized.
From the
Herald story I posted last year, the one in Floyd County is supposed to be rebuilt and expanded. I haven't heard or found anything that would lead me to believe that's changed.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 22, 2019, 08:08:24 PM
Doing a quick calcuation it is a 145 mile gap for eastbound traffic from the Welcome Center at the Wabash River to the Kentucky Welcome Center east of Louisville, that's an awful long gap between rest areas for anywhere in the United States.
Chalk up yet another negative achievement for Oklahoma. It is over 300 miles on I40 between Arkansas and Texas. There are rest areas/Welcome Centers east of Sallisaw and again near Erick. ODOT razed the rest areas near Shawnee and has removed almost all of the parking areas. Yes, OKC is roughly the midpoint but you get the picture.
With the need for more truck parking, not less, why would states remove parking opportunities? Even when Kentucky closes a rest area for repairs or renovations, they leave the truck parking lots open and place temporary porta-potties.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 03, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
With the need for more truck parking, not less, why would states remove parking opportunities? Even when Kentucky closes a rest area for repairs or renovations, they leave the truck parking lots open and place temporary porta-potties.
I've heard arguments that State DOTs should not be in competition with private truck stops or other facilities.
But hey, I am all for big government investment in free truck lots. :)
The item no one seems to be aware of is that DOT's have to provide security for these rest stops.
Some of them have remote, solar powered security cameras, most don't.
Drug muling love these rest stops as some are using them for exchanges and periodically those exchanges don't go well. (ie: shooting)
Some states have had to place a trooper on site for several hours on weekends to combat car & truck break ins while the drivers/passengers are relieving themselves.
I am not saying it is a chronic, die hard problem nationally, I am saying that some states just don't want to pay for the security. So they close them and push the "rest" to the next exit.
Call me crazy, and it would probably need an amendment to Federal Law...but I would rather see PPPs explored to turn Interstate/Freeway Rest Areas into Revenue Generating Service Plazas as opposed to shutting/demolishing the Rest Areas
If the Cost/Benefit Analysis is leading to shutting down, then something needs to be done to change that. Why not let Private Sector interests open a Gas Station and a Fast Food joint at existing Rest Areas?
I am not suggesting letting a Private Operator install Pay Toilets, but there is a Public Good to having a "Safe" place, on the Public Highway, to pull over, use the facilities, walk the dog, and have a cup of coffee. That could be done, still serving the Public Good, but also with a chance for Business Gain
The Law/Rule against Tollroad-like Service Plazas on Free Interstates is, IMHO, stupid to begin with.
The problem there is that you have government subsidizing competition with local businesses.
Never heard how exactly NYSDOT got out of that pickle with the Taste of NY vendors. One argument was totally ridiculous -- "They're glorified vending machines." I doubt that carried the day, but something did.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 03, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
With the need for more truck parking, not less, why would states remove parking opportunities? Even when Kentucky closes a rest area for repairs or renovations, they leave the truck parking lots open and place temporary porta-potties.
https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/tilford-rest-stop-demolished-more-to-close-in/article_60939c82-eb35-599a-b132-9f59e32ca3c6.html
When SDDOT closed the Tilford rest area on I-90 between Rapid City and Sturgis, they left open both parking lots for truckers. This, even in an increasing built up area of the Black Hills.
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
The problem there is that you have government subsidizing competition with local businesses.
Never heard how exactly NYSDOT got out of that pickle with the Taste of NY vendors. One argument was totally ridiculous -- "They're glorified vending machines." I doubt that carried the day, but something did.
If it is a competitively bid Public-Private Partnership Operating Lease, I don't see how Local Businesses have any legit complaints - those businesses can bid to operate.
I am not suggesting State DOTs operate an Interstate/Freeway Service Plaza - Private Business can and should do that
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 04, 2020, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
The problem there is that you have government subsidizing competition with local businesses.
Never heard how exactly NYSDOT got out of that pickle with the Taste of NY vendors. One argument was totally ridiculous -- "They're glorified vending machines." I doubt that carried the day, but something did.
If it is a competitively bid Public-Private Partnership Operating Lease, I don't see how Local Businesses have any legit complaints - those businesses can bid to operate.
I am not suggesting State DOTs operate an Interstate/Freeway Service Plaza - Private Business can and should do that
I know when OTA rebuilt the Turner Turnpike midway plaza in hte 80's they originally wanted multiple food vendors. The story goes that no other vendors wanted to go in once they heard McDonalds was staying.
Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2020, 03:00:16 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 03, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
With the need for more truck parking, not less, why would states remove parking opportunities? Even when Kentucky closes a rest area for repairs or renovations, they leave the truck parking lots open and place temporary porta-potties.
I've heard arguments that State DOTs should not be in competition with private truck stops or other facilities.
But hey, I am all for big government investment in free truck lots. :)
This isn't a truck stop in that sense of the word, and I know you know that. It's just a place to park. And if the vending machines are closed, truckers can't even buy a drink or a snack. With federal hours-of-service regulations getting stricter and with electronic log books becoming more common, there's a compelling reason for truckers to be provided places for their mandatory stops. States feel obligated to provide places for truckers to do their mandated breaks.
I think most truckers prefer to stop at commercial truck stops. They can fuel up, shower, and eat. Many of us have a mutual roadgeek friend who is now an OTR trucker. (Not CrazyVolvoGuy). He checks in on Facebook at all of his stops, including breaks and overnight stops. He always stops at either a commercial truck stop (he just checked in at a Love's in Oklahoma) or a turnpike service plaza for his overnighters. I don't remember him ever stopping at a regular rest area or truck parking area. But lots of truckers do.
Quote from: edwaleni on January 03, 2020, 08:26:00 PM
The item no one seems to be aware of is that DOT's have to provide security for these rest stops.
No they don't. I've never seen a law enforcement officer permanently stationed at one of Kentucky's rest areas. I'm not even sure there are cameras inside the buildings or in the parking lots.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2020, 03:00:16 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 03, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
With the need for more truck parking, not less, why would states remove parking opportunities? Even when Kentucky closes a rest area for repairs or renovations, they leave the truck parking lots open and place temporary porta-potties.
I've heard arguments that State DOTs should not be in competition with private truck stops or other facilities.
But hey, I am all for big government investment in free truck lots. :)
This isn't a truck stop in that sense of the word, and I know you know that. It's just a place to park. And if the vending machines are closed, truckers can't even buy a drink or a snack. With federal hours-of-service regulations getting stricter and with electronic log books becoming more common, there's a compelling reason for truckers to be provided places for their mandatory stops. States feel obligated to provide places for truckers to do their mandated breaks.
I think most truckers prefer to stop at commercial truck stops. They can fuel up, shower, and eat. Many of us have a mutual roadgeek friend who is now an OTR trucker. (Not CrazyVolvoGuy). He checks in on Facebook at all of his stops, including breaks and overnight stops. He always stops at either a commercial truck stop (he just checked in at a Love's in Oklahoma) or a turnpike service plaza for his overnighters. I don't remember him ever stopping at a regular rest area or truck parking area.
I'm with you: Government should fill the need, not private interests.
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 04, 2020, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
The problem there is that you have government subsidizing competition with local businesses.
Never heard how exactly NYSDOT got out of that pickle with the Taste of NY vendors. One argument was totally ridiculous -- "They're glorified vending machines." I doubt that carried the day, but something did.
If it is a competitively bid Public-Private Partnership Operating Lease, I don't see how Local Businesses have any legit complaints - those businesses can bid to operate.
I am not suggesting State DOTs operate an Interstate/Freeway Service Plaza - Private Business can and should do that
Because it is still the government providing the prime real estate for what would be in the end a favored business that would be in direct competition. The subsidy is still there.
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 08:42:01 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 04, 2020, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
The problem there is that you have government subsidizing competition with local businesses.
Never heard how exactly NYSDOT got out of that pickle with the Taste of NY vendors. One argument was totally ridiculous -- "They're glorified vending machines." I doubt that carried the day, but something did.
If it is a competitively bid Public-Private Partnership Operating Lease, I don't see how Local Businesses have any legit complaints - those businesses can bid to operate.
I am not suggesting State DOTs operate an Interstate/Freeway Service Plaza - Private Business can and should do that
Because it is still the government providing the prime real estate for what would be in the end a favored business that would be in direct competition. The subsidy is still there.
That was done when the Eisenhower Interstate System of Defense Higways was built
The Feds and States subsidized and continues to subsidize countless businesses near Interstate exits
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 08:40:37 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
I think most truckers prefer to stop at commercial truck stops. They can fuel up, shower, and eat. Many of us have a mutual roadgeek friend who is now an OTR trucker. (Not CrazyVolvoGuy). He checks in on Facebook at all of his stops, including breaks and overnight stops. He always stops at either a commercial truck stop (he just checked in at a Love's in Oklahoma) or a turnpike service plaza for his overnighters. I don't remember him ever stopping at a regular rest area or truck parking area.
I'm with you: Government should fill the need, not private interests.
Government built truck stops?
Those have always been provided by the private sector in the U.S.
Quote from: Beltway on January 04, 2020, 09:17:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 08:40:37 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
I think most truckers prefer to stop at commercial truck stops. They can fuel up, shower, and eat. Many of us have a mutual roadgeek friend who is now an OTR trucker. (Not CrazyVolvoGuy). He checks in on Facebook at all of his stops, including breaks and overnight stops. He always stops at either a commercial truck stop (he just checked in at a Love's in Oklahoma) or a turnpike service plaza for his overnighters. I don't remember him ever stopping at a regular rest area or truck parking area.
I'm with you: Government should fill the need, not private interests.
Government built truck stops?
Those have always been provided by the private sector in the U.S.
Somebody didn't follow the complete thread.
As a truck driver, let me preface my comments with this: I drive a day cab, so I stay in hotels when on the road. However, I have recently driven sleepers, so I can comment with that knowledge.
The average OTR trucker tries to plan on where he/she will end their day. Preferably, that is at a truck stop. However, with commercial truck stops filling up as early as 3pm during the week, and the unforgiving DOT mandated clock, a simple 10 minute slow down can cause a trucker to rework his plans. As the saying goes "Any port in a storm" applies here. Even 1 minute over one of the drivers clocks (8 hour for 30 minute break, 11 hour driving, 14 hour day, and 70 hour work week) can mean a pricey violation. Have you seen "The Hammer" billboards all over the interstates? He will be checking that too, even if his client hit the trucker!
Most OTR drivers have refrigerators, microwave ovens, and a cupboard full of food on board for times like these. They even shop at Walmart when they have time to make sure they are prepared for these events. All they need is a safe place to park where they will not be awaken in the middle of their sleep (and break) and told to move on. Yes, that happens when they stop on a ramp in some states, an abandoned lot, etc.
Back on topic, ANY truck parking area that pops up, if you go by them at night is usually being well used, if not full. Sometimes the state police will drive by, not to harass us, but to make sure WE are safe. There are simply too few commercial truck stops with adequate spaces for drivers to park overnight (I will not get into the new idea from truck stops called "reserved parking" which takes away free spaces and charges the driver for reserving that space in advance).
Any safe, legal space is welcomed by the trucker. But razing a rest area and blocking them from further use (as a truck parking area like the abandoned weight station on I-74 at mm 19 and the closed and razed rest area at mm 24 for instance) is a total waste of an area that is desperately needed for the truckers and the general public.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 03, 2020, 08:26:00 PM
The item no one seems to be aware of is that DOT's have to provide security for these rest stops.
No they don't. I've never seen a law enforcement officer permanently stationed at one of Kentucky's rest areas. I'm not even sure there are cameras inside the buildings or in the parking lots.
Illinois has cameras at at least some of their rest areas. Some of the rest areas have signs for this, 'Surveillance Cameras In Use For Your Safety'. (https://goo.gl/maps/VtuR14DBZ5nbHwpH7) I've also seem cameras inside the building at at least one of Iowa's rest areas on I-80.
As to the main topic, I disagree with closing rest areas and converting them to truck parking only. IMHO there should still be a couple spots for an automobile drive to use, in case they want to look at a map, check/use their phone, or get a snack and/or caffeinated drink out of their trunk.
If the trend of closing rest areas continues, I would like to see more of the 'rest area affiliate' signing that I recall Utah having.
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 05, 2020, 09:25:58 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 03, 2020, 08:26:00 PM
The item no one seems to be aware of is that DOT's have to provide security for these rest stops.
No they don't. I've never seen a law enforcement officer permanently stationed at one of Kentucky's rest areas. I'm not even sure there are cameras inside the buildings or in the parking lots.
Illinois has cameras at at least some of their rest areas. Some of the rest areas have signs for this, 'Surveillance Cameras In Use For Your Safety'. (https://goo.gl/maps/VtuR14DBZ5nbHwpH7) I've also seem cameras inside the building at at least one of Iowa's rest areas on I-80.
As to the main topic, I disagree with closing rest areas and converting them to truck parking only. IMHO there should still be a couple spots for an automobile drive to use, in case they want to look at a map, check/use their phone, or get a snack and/or caffeinated drink out of their trunk.
If the trend of closing rest areas continues, I would like to see more of the 'rest area affiliate' signing that I recall Utah having.
I concur.
DOT's are responsible for the security of the rest stop, that doesn't necessarily mean a trooper or rent-a-cop at every rest stop 24x7.
Simply put if there are unsafe activities happening at particular rest stops, then they are responsible to remediate it, that can be camera, cops or in some cases downright closure.
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: Beltway on January 04, 2020, 09:17:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2020, 08:40:37 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
I think most truckers prefer to stop at commercial truck stops. They can fuel up, shower, and eat. Many of us have a mutual roadgeek friend who is now an OTR trucker. (Not CrazyVolvoGuy). He checks in on Facebook at all of his stops, including breaks and overnight stops. He always stops at either a commercial truck stop (he just checked in at a Love's in Oklahoma) or a turnpike service plaza for his overnighters. I don't remember him ever stopping at a regular rest area or truck parking area.
I'm with you: Government should fill the need, not private interests.
Government built truck stops? Those have always been provided by the private sector in the U.S.
Somebody didn't follow the complete thread.
What did I miss?
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 05, 2020, 09:25:58 AM
As to the main topic, I disagree with closing rest areas and converting them to truck parking only. IMHO there should still be a couple spots for an automobile drive to use, in case they want to look at a map, check/use their phone, or get a snack and/or caffeinated drink out of their trunk.
I doubt anyone is going to complain if a passenger vehicle stops for 5 or 10 minutes for those things.
For such stops, or restroom-only stops, I prefer rest areas to commercial businesses if they are available and my bladder is cooperating. It's easier to get off and back on the freeway from a rest area, as opposed to exiting the freeway onto an intersecting route, turning into the business and dealing with whatever traffic may be there, and then getting back out onto the surface route and re-entering the freeway.
It's easier to stop at the I-79 rest areas in Lewis County, for example, than it is to get off at US 33/48/119 at Weston and deal with the traffic and the signals at the Sheetz there.
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 05, 2020, 09:25:58 AM
If the trend of closing rest areas continues, I would like to see more of the 'rest area affiliate' signing that I recall Utah having.
On my last trip up and down Utah's I-15 in 2019, I seem to remember that all of those signs (they were only between Beaver and greater SLC) had been removed during a re-signing project, although the locations still seem to appear on the state's official map of rest stop locations.
Sure enough, Street View confirms that this sign near Scipio, seen here in 2015, was gone by 2018:
(https://i.imgur.com/KeGMbQ6.png)
From 2011, here's a report on some of the difficulties faced by the private rest-stop operators:
https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=52190511&itype=cmsid