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Car Washes

Started by webny99, April 08, 2022, 01:21:41 PM

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1995hoo

^^^^^

Here's a Street View link showing one where you drive in and stop and the machine rotates around the car. Obviously the Google car couldn't go thru with the camera in place.

https://goo.gl/maps/detAngx7sZcAPtZQ6
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


kphoger

Quote from: skluth on April 10, 2022, 04:03:57 PM
I've never heard of a car wash where you put your car in park to use it. But I mostly just wash my own car.

That blows my mind.  Until very recently, that's the only non-self kind I had ever used.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Scott5114

I did a little bit of reading and it seems like the primary advantage to the conveyor systems is speed and efficiency. The articles I read touted that such-and-such feature of new conveyor systems would shave seconds off the wash cycle. And that makes sense, since the advantage to the conveyor systems is that, since each stage of the wash cycle takes place in a different physical location, multiple cars can be washed at the same time. Increased throughput = increased profit.

Meanwhile, the stationary car washes in Oklahoma, frequently a small boxy outbuilding of a gas station, seem like they sit idle for most of the day. There's not much need to squeeze every second out of the wash cycle, since there's rarely a second car waiting to be washed. So a stationary car wash works just fine and requires less space.

I wonder why there's such a difference in car wash usage from region to region. Less road gunk due to snow and salt? Warmer weather so people are more used to washing their own cars? Population density meaning there are fewer places someone can wash their own car?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

1995hoo

^^^^

I notice great disparity by time of year. I suspect it's two things at play–(1) road salt during the winter that requires more frequent washing and further requires an undercarriage blast that's hard to do at home and (2) warm weather during the summer motivates more people to wash a car at home combined with less urgent of a need to wash as often due to the lack of winter road treatments. Springtime falls in between because of pollen–intense pollen sometimes causes long lines at the car washes due to (a) weather sometimes being too cold to wash a car at home (we haven't turned the outside water back on yet) and (b) some people's pollen allergies making it problematic for them to wash a car at home.

Obviously the lines are always longer on the weekends, of course.

I wonder to what extent real estate values might affect which style of car wash is used (i.e., high real estate values might prompt the owner to use a style that requires less space).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 12, 2022, 07:41:36 AM
^^^^

I notice great disparity by time of year. I suspect it's two things at play–(1) road salt during the winter that requires more frequent washing and further requires an undercarriage blast that's hard to do at home and (2) warm weather during the summer motivates more people to wash a car at home combined with less urgent of a need to wash as often due to the lack of winter road treatments. Springtime falls in between because of pollen–intense pollen sometimes causes long lines at the car washes due to (a) weather sometimes being too cold to wash a car at home (we haven't turned the outside water back on yet) and (b) some people's pollen allergies making it problematic for them to wash a car at home.

Obviously the lines are always longer on the weekends, of course.

I wonder to what extent real estate values might affect which style of car wash is used (i.e., high real estate values might prompt the owner to use a style that requires less space).

There is indeed a disparity based on the season. Winter does require more frequent and more detailed washes, i.e. underbody, that can't be done by oneself, at least not easily. There probably is a direct correlation to the amount of snow that falls, followed by ice, then by salt. It's wash/rinse/repeat until April. The trick is finding the right time to go between storms and the melt/freeze cycle. Springtime not only brings pollen, but bird droppings as our avian friends come back/become more active. Summer is trickier; easier and satisfying to wash your car yourself while not needing to do it as often. I still wash my car somewhat regularly in the summer because of time spent near the ocean - the salt air.  In other parts of the country, there are also lovely bugs that can really do a number on a vehicle's paint if unchecked.

Re real estate, as a resident of Greater Boston, with our San Francisco-like prices, it's difficult to find the newer/more spacious car washes that are common elsewhere. To my knowledge, there's only one self-serve wash near to me. Every other one are the conveyor style, and tend to be older and smaller.

webny99

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:03:10 AM
I did a little bit of reading and it seems like the primary advantage to the conveyor systems is speed and efficiency. The articles I read touted that such-and-such feature of new conveyor systems would shave seconds off the wash cycle. And that makes sense, since the advantage to the conveyor systems is that, since each stage of the wash cycle takes place in a different physical location, multiple cars can be washed at the same time. Increased throughput = increased profit.

And that is indeed very important when there's thousands of cars using the car wash on a given day. I've studied one of the car washes near my house, which has an exit positioned such that you can watch the cars come out while sitting at the gas pump. It processes approximately 1 car every 13 seconds (packed in very tightly - much closer than you'd ever follow on the road), which works out to about 275 per hour. They're open for 14 hours, but there's bound to be some gaps near opening and closing times, so I figure they process about ~3500 cars on a busy day (in the winter and especially on weekends), and maybe about half that in the summer and fall.


Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:03:10 AM
I wonder why there's such a difference in car wash usage from region to region. Less road gunk due to snow and salt? Warmer weather so people are more used to washing their own cars? Population density meaning there are fewer places someone can wash their own car?

The salt in the winter is easily #1. In the Great Lakes region, the roads are salted heavily before and during snowfall, and often afterwards too to avoid freeze-ups, so the salt lingers for days, sometimes weeks after a significant snowfall. Rain is what finally washes the salt away, but it could be months between rainfalls since most of our precipitation comes as snow. As such, going through the wash in the winter months is a weekly activity at a minimum - often more. And if you have the unlimited plan, there's no drawback to going through frequently because you're paying the same monthly price regardless.

The biggest issue with going through the car wash is actually the lines to get in, which can be much worse than any traffic we have on the actual roads if you hit it at the wrong time - and on a sunny Saturday after a big snowfall? Forget about it!

Below is a satellite view of one of the Delta Sonic locations not far from me, with the red arrows showing the path of a car going through the wash. There's three lanes to enter, which narrow to two lanes to go through the pre-wash (the small structure immediately past the U-turn at the bottom) and down to one lane to enter the car wash itself. Even with all that storage space for queueing, I've seen it back up all the way to the entrance and nearly spill on to Empire Blvd during the busy times of year.





1995hoo

Quote from: webny99 on April 12, 2022, 09:10:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:03:10 AM
I did a little bit of reading and it seems like the primary advantage to the conveyor systems is speed and efficiency. The articles I read touted that such-and-such feature of new conveyor systems would shave seconds off the wash cycle. And that makes sense, since the advantage to the conveyor systems is that, since each stage of the wash cycle takes place in a different physical location, multiple cars can be washed at the same time. Increased throughput = increased profit.

And that is indeed very important when there's thousands of cars using the car wash on a given day. I've studied one of the car washes near my house, which has an exit positioned such that you can watch the cars come out while sitting at the gas pump. It processes approximately 1 car every 13 seconds (packed in very tightly - much closer than you'd ever follow on the road), which works out to about 275 per hour. They're open for 14 hours, but there's bound to be some gaps near opening and closing times, so I figure they process about ~3500 cars on a busy day (in the winter and especially on weekends), and maybe about half that in the summer and fall.

Interesting. While the car wash I used to frequent has now been torn down, I used to time how long it took. It was an imperfect exercise because it offered four different wash options of varying length, but the longest option took about five minutes per car, which would mean approximately 12 cars per hour assuming everyone bought the longest option (which was definitely not the case).

There were times during the winter when the line would wrap completely around the perimeter of the gas station and the problem became that some people would block the entrances/exits for fear of someone else trying to cut the line.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Scott5114

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 12, 2022, 07:41:36 AM
(a) weather sometimes being too cold to wash a car at home (we haven't turned the outside water back on yet)

Wait wait wait. In cold parts of the country, there's a valve you can turn to block just the outside water spigots? Is that common there? My house has just the one valve that cuts off the water in the whole house.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

HighwayStar

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 12, 2022, 07:41:36 AM
(a) weather sometimes being too cold to wash a car at home (we haven't turned the outside water back on yet)

Wait wait wait. In cold parts of the country, there's a valve you can turn to block just the outside water spigots? Is that common there? My house has just the one valve that cuts off the water in the whole house.

In some cases yes, people have a shutoff for the outside spigots.
But what is more common in new construction is what is called a "frost proof" spigot, which has a long extension that goes in the house and has the actual shutoff well inside the wall. The result is a spigot that can be used all winter, provided you shut it off tightly and drain the hose if you use one.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

J N Winkler

The only kinds of car washes I use are brushless DIY with, at minimum, high-pressure soap and rinse cycles.  I greatly prefer to use ones that also have a low-pressure spot-free rinse, to avoid touching the paint except for detailing operations such as clay-barring, polishing, and waxing.  The DIY service model gives me the flexibility to devote extra spray time to parts of the car that need it, such as the underbody after a snowstorm, the wheel arches after driving on gravel after a rainstorm, the front after sustained high-speed travel during bug season, etc.

Most of the time I use Little Joe's, which is only about two miles away.  Little Joe's also used to operate a much larger car wash that they sold to Cyclone Car Wash several years ago.  I have not been back because Cyclone uses a subscription model.  I don't know whether I can use them without a membership and, if so, what the cost penalty is.

All of the brushless DIY car washes I've used in the Wichita area have had spot-free rinse, but the ones I've found in other cities rarely do.  I will do without it if the car urgently needs to be cleaned, but still won't use a chamois or drying cloth--I deal with the hard water stains later.

Since we keep our cars garaged and typically get just two or three major snowstorms each winter, intervals between consecutive car washes have extended as long as eight months in the time of covid.  The 28-year-old vehicle in the family fleet still has no underbody rust of any significance.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

1995hoo

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 12, 2022, 07:41:36 AM
(a) weather sometimes being too cold to wash a car at home (we haven't turned the outside water back on yet)

Wait wait wait. In cold parts of the country, there's a valve you can turn to block just the outside water spigots? Is that common there? My house has just the one valve that cuts off the water in the whole house.

Our house has two shutoffs for the outside water, one for the front and one for the back.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Bruce

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:03:10 AM
I wonder why there's such a difference in car wash usage from region to region. Less road gunk due to snow and salt? Warmer weather so people are more used to washing their own cars? Population density meaning there are fewer places someone can wash their own car?

I generally only wash my car a few times a year. Living in an area with reliable rainstorms and minimal need for road salting does help a lot. For my windshield I use sprays and my own squeegee at home to keep things clear.

In winter I only wash after a snowstorm to remove any gunk that gets picked up, but otherwise let nature do its thing. In the summer, I will hand wash if there's been a wildfire that has dumped ash on the car.

Scott5114

Quote from: Bruce on April 12, 2022, 06:15:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 04:03:10 AM
I wonder why there's such a difference in car wash usage from region to region. Less road gunk due to snow and salt? Warmer weather so people are more used to washing their own cars? Population density meaning there are fewer places someone can wash their own car?

I generally only wash my car a few times a year. Living in an area with reliable rainstorms and minimal need for road salting does help a lot. For my windshield I use sprays and my own squeegee at home to keep things clear.

Same here. Once or twice in the summer, mostly to wash off dust accumulation, bird poop, and bug strikes. I keep my car garaged, and can usually avoid traveling on freshly-salted roads.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

J N Winkler

The temperature danger zone for underbody corrosion from road salt is 32° F to 40° F.  When it snows and the roads are salted, I generally wait to wash cars until after a rainstorm comes and dissolves the dried salt that remains when the snow melts.  It rarely takes long for this to happen.

I'm also not above washing cars when ambient temperature is below freezing, but it's less comfortable to do so and the defoggers need to be kept on full blast to keep wash water freezing on the exterior to a minimum.

We used to do driveway washes, but now do so no longer:

*  Our driveway has no natural shade.

*  Without high-pressure water for soaping and rinsing, it takes a lot longer.

*  Even the two-bucket method won't prevent grit getting in the wash mitt, where it then abrades the paint.

I've heard of people spending $250 on high-pressure washers for car washing at home.  This has never seemed to us a good investment because of the hassle factors of arranging titration of soap and dishwasher rinse aid (for spot-free rinsing).
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Too much!

I use a bucket of tap water, Dawn dish soap, the garden hose, a cheap sponge, and a bath towel.

But, for the car, ...   :-D
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

thenetwork

Prior to this year, Grand Junction, CO (Pop: 65,000+), there were only two conveyor-based car washes in town -- both are limited service (no emplyees to vac, dry, or wipe interiors of cars) with free self-serve vacuums next to the car wash.

Now in the last couple of weeks, I have seen construction signs touting 4 new conveyor car wash locations being built in the city (one just opened) plus a long dormant conveyor wash has reopened (but very limited hours & days for now).

I don't know why the over explosion of washes in my area all of a sudden -- i think it will be overkill ‐‐ but at least I will have a few more in my area.

And I prefer friction washes over touch frees because touch frees have always left a thin film of remaining dirt most noticeably on the windows and especially the front windshield .

Scott5114

My method is to just use a hose with a sprayer nozzle for rinsing, then soaping with rainwater from a rain-collection barrel.

Frankly, though, the appearance of my car isn't important enough to me to take steps to avoid hard water spotting or very fine paint abrasion.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2022, 08:38:22 PM
Frankly, though, the appearance of my car isn't important enough to me to take steps to avoid hard water spotting or very fine paint abrasion.

Same here.  I don't even mind larger scratches, such as from tree branches.  It's just a car.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

doorknob60

My Costco is one of only 12 in the country with a car wash. It's $7.99, which is the same price as most car washes charge for their "basic" car wash, but Costco doesn't have different tiers, so you get all the bells and whistles for that price. It's my go-to generally. I've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking. They have vacuums you can use which can be handy.

abefroman329

Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2022, 12:05:29 PMI've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking.
I mean, I'm certainly not tipping the guy who runs the machinery that pulls the car through the car wash, but it's SOP to tip the people who vacuum the car, dry it, clean the windows, etc.

HighwayStar

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2022, 12:05:29 PMI've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking.
I mean, I'm certainly not tipping the guy who runs the machinery that pulls the car through the car wash, but it's SOP to tip the people who vacuum the car, dry it, clean the windows, etc.

How much do you tip? A percentage, a $5 bill?
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

doorknob60

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2022, 12:05:29 PMI've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking.
I mean, I'm certainly not tipping the guy who runs the machinery that pulls the car through the car wash, but it's SOP to tip the people who vacuum the car, dry it, clean the windows, etc.

That makes sense (other than my general complaints about US tipping culture). That's not what was happening at Mister though, it's all machines, and the vacuums are self serve.

webny99

Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2022, 12:05:29 PM
I've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking.

Do they ask for a tip at the beginning?

Giving a tip at the end if you get your car hand-dried is very common, which I usually skip precisely because I would be obliged to tip, and would rather save the time/money when the additional drying is really pretty minimal (no offense to the people that do it, but the blow-dryers at the end of the car wash are powerful enough that it's not really necessary IMO). But I've never heard of asking for a tip.

Rothman



Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2022, 12:05:29 PMI've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking.
I mean, I'm certainly not tipping the guy who runs the machinery that pulls the car through the car wash, but it's SOP to tip the people who vacuum the car, dry it, clean the windows, etc.

Hm.  We had car washes in the Capital District of NY where kids would dry the car, but not vacuum it or clean the windows, after the car had been put through a conveyor wash.  I don't think anyone tipped them.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

abefroman329

Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2022, 12:05:29 PMI've also been to Mister Car Wash with no complaints, though they ask for a tip now (they say "totally optional") which I think is a little weird. I skip the tip, never thought of tipping at a car wash, but feels a little awkward with them asking.
I mean, I'm certainly not tipping the guy who runs the machinery that pulls the car through the car wash, but it's SOP to tip the people who vacuum the car, dry it, clean the windows, etc.

How much do you tip? A percentage, a $5 bill?
Depends on how generous I'm feeling that day, but no less than 20%.



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