The Sorry State of Affairs in Automobilia in the 1970s, 80s and 90s

Started by Max Rockatansky, April 30, 2016, 11:49:55 AM

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bugo

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 18, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:22:33 AM
I bet the '65 Ford with the 427 engine wasn't as quiet as a Rolls Royce.

Did you just compare a 427 Galaxie to a fucking Camry?

and my 99 camry is pretty quiet, really. you don't really hear the engine at all unless you put your foot in it, and even then its pretty quiet.


zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: bugo on June 24, 2021, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 18, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:22:33 AM
I bet the '65 Ford with the 427 engine wasn't as quiet as a Rolls Royce.

Did you just compare a 427 Galaxie to a fucking Camry?

and my 99 camry is pretty quiet, really. you don't really hear the engine at all unless you put your foot in it, and even then its pretty quiet.

i did. *hangs head in shame*
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

kernals12

I think the sacrifices imposed by emissions controls in the 70s were worth it. They gave us much cleaner air and crippled the anti-car movement. Look at how Europe is moving ahead with banning cars from city centers with smog concerns as an excuse whereas such views are well on the fringe in the United States where our tailpipe emissions are much cleaner.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kernals12 on July 09, 2021, 08:12:05 AM
I think the sacrifices imposed by emissions controls in the 70s were worth it. They gave us much cleaner air and crippled the anti-car movement. Look at how Europe is moving ahead with banning cars from city centers with smog concerns as an excuse whereas such views are well on the fringe in the United States where our tailpipe emissions are much cleaner.

The Malaise Era did nothing to slow car sales or stop people from using limited access highways.  It did lead to more efficient vehicles becoming hugely popular.  FWD and four cylinder vehicles were barely even a thing in the U.S. before the 1970s. 

D-Dey65

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 18, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:22:33 AM
I bet the '65 Ford with the 427 engine wasn't as quiet as a Rolls Royce.

and my 99 camry is pretty quiet, really. you don't really hear the engine at all unless you put your foot in it, and even then its pretty quiet.
Really? Because my 02 Camry is fairly loud. When I'm on the phone, people know when I'm in my car.

Then again, I tend to put my foot into it when I'm on the Interstate,


zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 17, 2021, 05:34:27 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 18, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:22:33 AM
I bet the '65 Ford with the 427 engine wasn't as quiet as a Rolls Royce.

and my 99 camry is pretty quiet, really. you don't really hear the engine at all unless you put your foot in it, and even then its pretty quiet.
Really? Because my 02 Camry is fairly loud. When I'm on the phone, people know when I'm in my car.

Then again, I tend to put my foot into it when I'm on the Interstate,

mine's pretty quiet, it's the 4-cylider version. it tends to wind out the gears a little harder when the a/c is on and will go to 3000-3500 rpms when starting from stop. without it on, it might touch 3000. i tend to drive my car gently and keep rpms low except for when i'm passing someone.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

Henry

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2021, 02:05:07 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 09, 2021, 08:12:05 AM
I think the sacrifices imposed by emissions controls in the 70s were worth it. They gave us much cleaner air and crippled the anti-car movement. Look at how Europe is moving ahead with banning cars from city centers with smog concerns as an excuse whereas such views are well on the fringe in the United States where our tailpipe emissions are much cleaner.

The Malaise Era did nothing to slow car sales or stop people from using limited access highways.  It did lead to more efficient vehicles becoming hugely popular.  FWD and four cylinder vehicles were barely even a thing in the U.S. before the 1970s. 
That is actually not true, as when the very first cars were built, there were no six- or eight-cylinder engines available (those would come a little bit later). As far as FWD, we can thank Cord for bringing it to America, and of course, the current wave was started in the mid-60s by a pair of GM personal luxury coupes with rhyming names (Toronado and Eldorado).
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

bugo

Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2021, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2021, 02:05:07 PM
The Malaise Era did nothing to slow car sales or stop people from using limited access highways.  It did lead to more efficient vehicles becoming hugely popular.  FWD and four cylinder vehicles were barely even a thing in the U.S. before the 1970s. 
That is actually not true, as when the very first cars were built, there were no six- or eight-cylinder engines available (those would come a little bit later). As far as FWD, we can thank Cord for bringing it to America, and of course, the current wave was started in the mid-60s by a pair of GM personal luxury coupes with rhyming names (Toronado and Eldorado).

I think he was referring to postwar cars. All rules go out the window when talking about cars built before circa 1950. That era was full of experimentation with different types of engines and drive systems and other mechanicals. There were indeed front wheel drive cars, but most of them were technological dead ends, with the noticeable exception of the Citroen Traction Avant, which led to the 2CV and many other FWD French and European cars. After the war, cars became rather conservative mechanically and most American cars conformed to the paradigm of V8 in the front and live axle in the rear. The front wheel drive shift in the 1980s was a radical departure for American cars, but import cars had been using it for years. The Toronado was engineered significantly differently than future FWD cars, with a longitudinally mounted engine and a chain drive. Car design was incredibly diverse in the years prior to 1950, but now it's almost completely homogenized.

D-Dey65

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on August 18, 2021, 10:41:29 AM
mine's pretty quiet, it's the 4-cylider version. it tends to wind out the gears a little harder when the a/c is on and will go to 3000-3500 rpms when starting from stop. without it on, it might touch 3000. i tend to drive my car gently and keep rpms low except for when i'm passing someone.
Hey, you have the 4-cylinder in yours too?

The ride is fairly solid though. It's got a tougher than expected chassis, which a lot of Toyotas were known for having since they first imported them from Japan.



Max Rockatansky

Quote from: bugo on August 18, 2021, 10:05:03 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2021, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2021, 02:05:07 PM
The Malaise Era did nothing to slow car sales or stop people from using limited access highways.  It did lead to more efficient vehicles becoming hugely popular.  FWD and four cylinder vehicles were barely even a thing in the U.S. before the 1970s. 
That is actually not true, as when the very first cars were built, there were no six- or eight-cylinder engines available (those would come a little bit later). As far as FWD, we can thank Cord for bringing it to America, and of course, the current wave was started in the mid-60s by a pair of GM personal luxury coupes with rhyming names (Toronado and Eldorado).

I think he was referring to postwar cars. All rules go out the window when talking about cars built before circa 1950. That era was full of experimentation with different types of engines and drive systems and other mechanicals. There were indeed front wheel drive cars, but most of them were technological dead ends, with the noticeable exception of the Citroen Traction Avant, which led to the 2CV and many other FWD French and European cars. After the war, cars became rather conservative mechanically and most American cars conformed to the paradigm of V8 in the front and live axle in the rear. The front wheel drive shift in the 1980s was a radical departure for American cars, but import cars had been using it for years. The Toronado was engineered significantly differently than future FWD cars, with a longitudinally mounted engine and a chain drive. Car design was incredibly diverse in the years prior to 1950, but now it's almost completely homogenized.

To clarify, I was referring to the Post War Era. 

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 19, 2021, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on August 18, 2021, 10:41:29 AM
mine's pretty quiet, it's the 4-cylider version. it tends to wind out the gears a little harder when the a/c is on and will go to 3000-3500 rpms when starting from stop. without it on, it might touch 3000. i tend to drive my car gently and keep rpms low except for when i'm passing someone.
Hey, you have the 4-cylinder in yours too?

The ride is fairly solid though. It's got a tougher than expected chassis, which a lot of Toyotas were known for having since they first imported them from Japan.

there is a cattle guard not far from me that i have to cross whenever i go to town. my mother's car, it will make the cd player skip. my car, you don't really even notice it other than the noise of crossing it.

i feel like it rides nicely, and has a surprising amount of room, considering i'm a rather big fella, and i don't feel cramped in it at all.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

Max Rockatansky

A sorry state of affairs that the domestic market didn't get a version of the Holden Adventra TVC:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a15955603/holden-adventra-pontiac/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0XEUZH0HZv8TfvRlE9Imul2fapKmDGr55VjOF3PHJTdroK-7mmet7hPoQ

I was thinking that maybe enough time has gone by since this thread was created to finally look at some not so fantastic cars (or automotive decisions) from the 00s?

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: bugo on August 18, 2021, 10:05:03 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2021, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2021, 02:05:07 PM
The Malaise Era did nothing to slow car sales or stop people from using limited access highways.  It did lead to more efficient vehicles becoming hugely popular.  FWD and four cylinder vehicles were barely even a thing in the U.S. before the 1970s. 
That is actually not true, as when the very first cars were built, there were no six- or eight-cylinder engines available (those would come a little bit later). As far as FWD, we can thank Cord for bringing it to America, and of course, the current wave was started in the mid-60s by a pair of GM personal luxury coupes with rhyming names (Toronado and Eldorado).

I think he was referring to postwar cars. All rules go out the window when talking about cars built before circa 1950. That era was full of experimentation with different types of engines and drive systems and other mechanicals. There were indeed front wheel drive cars, but most of them were technological dead ends, with the noticeable exception of the Citroen Traction Avant, which led to the 2CV and many other FWD French and European cars. After the war, cars became rather conservative mechanically and most American cars conformed to the paradigm of V8 in the front and live axle in the rear. The front wheel drive shift in the 1980s was a radical departure for American cars, but import cars had been using it for years. The Toronado was engineered significantly differently than future FWD cars, with a longitudinally mounted engine and a chain drive. Car design was incredibly diverse in the years prior to 1950, but now it's almost completely homogenized.

Except for Honda, Toyota, Nissan (back then known as Datsun) and Mazda was mainly RWD. Toyota introduced the FWD Tercel in 1980, Nissan replaced the 210 and 510 with the Sentra and Stanza in 1982-83. Mazda introduced their FWD GLC in 1981 and the FWD 626 in 1983.

Btw, enjoy some vintage ads. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7P6V2lHEgM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBCp1LSrDlk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jBMEPXzY4Y


DJStephens

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 22, 2022, 09:36:57 PM
A sorry state of affairs that the domestic market didn't get a version of the Holden Adventra TVC:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a15955603/holden-adventra-pontiac/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0XEUZH0HZv8TfvRlE9Imul2fapKmDGr55VjOF3PHJTdroK-7mmet7hPoQ

I was thinking that maybe enough time has gone by since this thread was created to finally look at some not so fantastic cars (or automotive decisions) from the 00s?

The attempts to market Holden offerings in the US flopped.   Both the '04-'06 Pontiac GTO and the later Caprice? PPV failed.   The GTO should have had "retro" styling, instead of that of a sterile jelly bean, and the later PPV floundered in a sea of trucks and SUV's.   

Takumi

Quote from: DJStephens on March 30, 2022, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 22, 2022, 09:36:57 PM
A sorry state of affairs that the domestic market didn't get a version of the Holden Adventra TVC:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a15955603/holden-adventra-pontiac/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0XEUZH0HZv8TfvRlE9Imul2fapKmDGr55VjOF3PHJTdroK-7mmet7hPoQ

I was thinking that maybe enough time has gone by since this thread was created to finally look at some not so fantastic cars (or automotive decisions) from the 00s?

The attempts to market Holden offerings in the US flopped.   Both the '04-'06 Pontiac GTO and the later Caprice? PPV failed.   The GTO should have had "retro" styling, instead of that of a sterile jelly bean, and the later PPV floundered in a sea of trucks and SUV's.   

The Caprice was never sold to the general public. Any that make it into private hands are former police cars. The Caprice and SS were primarily produced to fill manufacturing contracts. It's why marketing for the SS was almost nonexistent.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Takumi on March 31, 2022, 11:05:08 AM
Quote from: DJStephens on March 30, 2022, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 22, 2022, 09:36:57 PM
A sorry state of affairs that the domestic market didn't get a version of the Holden Adventra TVC:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a15955603/holden-adventra-pontiac/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0XEUZH0HZv8TfvRlE9Imul2fapKmDGr55VjOF3PHJTdroK-7mmet7hPoQ

I was thinking that maybe enough time has gone by since this thread was created to finally look at some not so fantastic cars (or automotive decisions) from the 00s?

The attempts to market Holden offerings in the US flopped.   Both the '04-'06 Pontiac GTO and the later Caprice? PPV failed.   The GTO should have had "retro" styling, instead of that of a sterile jelly bean, and the later PPV floundered in a sea of trucks and SUV's.   

The Caprice was never sold to the general public. Any that make it into private hands are former police cars. The Caprice and SS were primarily produced to fill manufacturing contracts. It's why marketing for the SS was almost nonexistent.

All the same, the SS is a pretty nice car.  My uncle has one in green, he bought it as a collectors item given the low production run.  The SS along with the G8 stacked up well with the likes of the LX cars from Chrysler.

kernals12

Old cars in general are just terrible. Even a 1960s Chevrolet Impala with a V8 engine would get crushed by my 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid, to say nothing of how much further my car will go on a gallon of gas. Today's automotive engineers have vast amounts of inexpensive computing power at their disposal for controlling fuel and valves, that allows them to get lots of power from small engines.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kernals12 on April 03, 2022, 01:25:27 PM
Old cars in general are just terrible. Even a 1960s Chevrolet Impala with a V8 engine would get crushed by my 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid, to say nothing of how much further my car will go on a gallon of gas. Today's automotive engineers have vast amounts of inexpensive computing power at their disposal for controlling fuel and valves, that allows them to get lots of power from small engines.

Convert net horsepower back to gross the the modern numbers would be pretty shockingly high by Muscle Car era standards.  The conversion from SAE gross to SAE net horsepower ratings occurred in 1972.

formulanone

Quote from: kernals12 on April 03, 2022, 01:25:27 PM
Old cars in general are just terrible. Even a 1960s Chevrolet Impala with a V8 engine would get crushed by my 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid, to say nothing of how much further my car will go on a gallon of gas. Today's automotive engineers have vast amounts of inexpensive computing power at their disposal for controlling fuel and valves, that allows them to get lots of power from small engines.

I don't think a 1960s Impala is a great performance yardstick, other comparative than sales numbers.

Older vehicles are easier and cheaper to make them faster, but after accounting for appearance/style (which is subjective), or just being a totally different experience, there's little they can do better than a modern car. But few are using them for daily drivers, so the point is moot.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: formulanone on April 04, 2022, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 03, 2022, 01:25:27 PM
Old cars in general are just terrible. Even a 1960s Chevrolet Impala with a V8 engine would get crushed by my 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid, to say nothing of how much further my car will go on a gallon of gas. Today's automotive engineers have vast amounts of inexpensive computing power at their disposal for controlling fuel and valves, that allows them to get lots of power from small engines.

I don't think a 1960s Impala is a great performance yardstick, other comparative than sales numbers.

Older vehicles are easier and cheaper to make them faster, but after accounting for appearance/style (which is subjective), or just being a totally different experience, there's little they can do better than a modern car. But few are using them for daily drivers, so the point is moot.

One thing older cars, especially pre-1974 do better is styling.  1974 is when all the 5 MPH law came into affect and manufacturers suddenly had to consider safety over appearance.  It's hard to make a modern car appealing visually whereas those older car designers had almost free reign to do what they wanted.  Even now, all these decades after the 1990s cars and CUVs still end up more or less looking jelly bean-like.

GCrites

The 5 mph bumper law went away in 1983 for a 2.5 mph bumper law. Trucks, SUVs and minivans have no bumper regulations at all. It was more of an insurance company thing really since insurance companies didn't want to pay out for when a '60s Jaguar got hit at 3 mph while in a mall parking lot or whatever and essentially melted.

Max Rockatansky

Chevy Monza, lots of 1970s era ads in this video:



I actually really like how some of the early 2+2s looked.  I've seen a couple Monza Mirages floating around car shows now and then over the years.


abefroman329

Quote from: kernals12 on April 03, 2022, 01:25:27 PMEven a 1960s Chevrolet Impala with a V8 engine would get crushed by my 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid
Quite literally - I never tire of sharing this video whenever someone says that old cars were built like tanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

Max Rockatansky

#923
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 11:06:29 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 03, 2022, 01:25:27 PMEven a 1960s Chevrolet Impala with a V8 engine would get crushed by my 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid
Quite literally - I never tire of sharing this video whenever someone says that old cars were built like tanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

That's always painful to me to watch a 1959 bat wing style Chevy get destroyed for the sake of selling up the safety attributes of an Elipson platform Malibu. 

Speaking of a lack or a safety, I'm always intrigued by Central American variants of cars.  Most of the newer lower tier cars I see in Mexico only have two air bags.  The prices usually are somewhere under $20,000 USD. 

Max Rockatansky




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