I was thinking it over and there's a lot to see roadswise in Anchorage. Possibly even Fairbanks. Who would be able and willing to travel to Alaska in 2016 or 2017 (or?) for such an event? If there seems to be some interest, I'll go through more effort to put something together.
I'm one logical suspect, and my interest is deeply borderline. I've been there on six seven trips already (drove there in 1994. 2012, and 2016; flew out in 2001, 2007, and 2009, and 2017).
The other logical suspect on this board lives in Juneau. Juneau and nearby communities also have some stuff of roadgeek interest (such as the fast ferries carrying autos to Juneau and some other places). That also is the most likely part of Alaska for me to visit in the next few years, including Tenakee Springs (for the hot spring), Petersburg, and Ketchikan (might be able to view the remnants of the failed "Bridge to Nowhere" project). EDIT: Went to those places in 2016, though I have some unfinished business in SE Alaska (much of which I covered on my 2017 visit), so I'm still a little more interested in going back there on trip #7 #8 than to the rest of Alaska.
But for people allergic to ferries, I think Fairbanks might be more interesting than Anchorage. Wait long enough, and you'll catch the planned relocation of the southernmost ~7 miles of the Dalton Highway. EDIT: Construction could begin as soon as 2018 (http://dot.alaska.gov/nreg/dalton/faq.shtml) (subject to environmental review and funding), with two years needed to complete the project. Also, a possible trip to the Arctic Circle; the heat pipe system keeping the permafrost frozen under part of Chena Hot Springs Road east of town; the only numbered exits anywhere in Alaska; the Trans-Alaska Pipeline passing through the area; and the chance to go south to the (Fairbanks suburb) North Pole with its candy-cane streetlights.
*slowly raises hand in the air*
I would need considerable advance notice, and at least in my current situation I'm unavailable between January and May of an odd numbered year, but if this were announced 5-6 months in advance I could probably make it happen. Getting up to Alaska is a priority while I still live in Montana, since I'm relatively close, and this would be as good an excuse as any.
Quote from: corco on June 11, 2015, 12:52:37 AM
I would need considerable advance notice, and at least in my current situation I'm unavailable between January and May of an odd numbered year,
That's a
really specific schedule. :bigass:
I would certainly be interested. I'll personally say summer 2016 may not work that well for me depending on when it falls because of my own meet I'm hoping to host, but I would definitely make an effort to attend an Alaska meet.
I had been making noise about driving to Alaska from New York but as I look at it it's... really pushing it to make it there and back in two weeks, even via the most direct routes. So it's looking like going to Alaska is going to be a fly and rent operation.
Which honestly makes my schedule a lot more flexible since it then doesn't need to happen in a year when I own a young car. It can happen pretty much anytime, just not in winter. :P
Also, driving around Nevada has really dampened my enthusiasm for long drives through desolate nothingness. So while on an emotional level I want to drive the Alaska highway to say I did, on a conscious level I'm now thinking "do I really want to?"
making Alaska by car is a long-shot for me right now. I could probably fly there. Regardless I have to stock up on the $$$ to fund such a trip otherwise it's no dice and its going to be tougher after my financial situation change that took place last month.
I definitely want to go to Alaska, but I'd have to see about the logistics.
I like the concept, but the problem would be getting there. I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
Am I interested? Absolutely! Is it likely that I'd be able to attend an Alaska road meet within the next year or two? Not really. 2016 is a definite no. 2017 or 2018 might be a possibility though. I'd love to drive all the way there from Michigan if money and time off from work would allow that.
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
...I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
Just choose Maui County. :-D
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 11, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
...I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
Just choose Maui County. :-D
But I want Hawaii County - imagine a leg of the tour being the summit of Mauna Kea :awesomeface:
EDIT: IN WINTER! ;)
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 11, 2015, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 11, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
...I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
Just choose Maui County. :-D
But I want Hawaii County - imagine a leg of the tour being the summit of Mauna Kea :awesomeface:
EDIT: IN WINTER! ;)
I'm down
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 11, 2015, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 11, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
...I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
Just choose Maui County. :-D
But I want Hawaii County - imagine a leg of the tour being the summit of Mauna Kea :awesomeface:
EDIT: IN WINTER! ;)
I did drive to the top of Mauna Kea (In Summer). Very, very awesome. Got lightheaded really quick, and then I had to drive back down.
When I returned to the visitors center, I mentioned my trip up. The guide there then mentioned the unpaved road is usually graded every week. Unfortunately, the grader had been broken for the previous month!!!
Fun ride. Don't know if I'll ever do it again, but I'm glad I did it once!
This is something that has been on my bucket list for some time, I would LOVE to drive to Alaska but it would be several years out if Steph and I would and it would definetly be this time of the year when I would do it. If we do this it probably would not be until after 2020. If it would involve a road meet, all the more incentive for us to go. :-)
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
I like the concept, but the problem would be getting there. I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
The state is thin on new projects to view, and they're scattered among three islands. .For historic roads with dozens of one-lane bridges and hundreds of hairpin curves, Maui is the place. Oahu has the Interstates, including the mostly gorgeous Interstate H-3, but I hate that island for much the same reason as many Alaskans diss Anchorage (for example, "the best thing about Los Anchorage is that it's not too far away from Alaska").
I'd LOVE to go to Alaska some day, and a roadmeet there sounds awesome, but with the drive from Albany being ten days long each way even on a pretty direct route, I'm not sure when I'd actually be available for it.
Not a chance.
1.) No money.
2.) No passport (yet).
3.) I don't fly.
I'd love to, and it's an encouraging sign to see a couple possible carpool buddies... but 2016 is out. Any year after that depends on so many variables, I obviously can't make any guarantees. If I can, I will.
Quote from: Duke87 on June 11, 2015, 01:36:32 AMAlso, driving around Nevada has really dampened my enthusiasm for long drives through desolate nothingness. So while on an emotional level I want to drive the Alaska highway to say I did, on a conscious level I'm now thinking "do I really want to?"
Seeing this quote just reminded me of how I had lost my enthusiasm for driving last year on the way back home from NYC - having done 2 long road trips (one 6-months long in 2013 and then constant work trips in 2014). It also felt like because I had achieved my two dream trips (California and Arizona via car and NYC) I had ran out of drive (no pun intended)
Quote from: Duke87 on June 11, 2015, 12:03:49 AM
*slowly raises hand in the air*
Yes, you were part of the inspiration behind this idea. Based on what I've been reading, I'll punt this to at least 2017, but since I do want to get to Fairbanks (and drive the Dalton Highway with you - it's more fun with companions), it seems like I should hold onto this as viable.
Quote from: Brandon on June 11, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
I like the concept, but the problem would be getting there. I'd also love to see a Hawai'i roadmeet. But, there, the question would be 1) getting there, and 2) which island do you choose.
I would also like to see a Hawaii roadmeet. If Alaska is 2017, Hawaii should be 2018 at the earliest, to give people some time to recharge their funds. Oahu or Maui are the most likely candidates, but the reconstructed Saddle Road makes the Big Island a distant option.
Quote from: Alps on June 10, 2015, 11:33:15 PM
I was thinking it over and there's a lot to see roadswise in Anchorage. Possibly even Fairbanks. Who would be able and willing to travel to Alaska in 2016 or 2017 (or?) for such an event? If there seems to be some interest, I'll go through more effort to put something together.
2017 sounds better for me, and would
love to attend such a meet - never been in Alaska - would consider flying, but would enjoy the drive from Maryland to Alaska via the Alaska Highway much more, and would be open to some car-pooling to spread-out the fuel costs (could any of the East Coast roadgeek friends tolerate being with me for that long of a trip?).
Edgewater, Maryland to Ted Stevens Airport in Anchorage, Alaska is about 4,300 miles one-way. Google Maps claims it would take 73 hours.
Yeah, there are some very long travel times to get to Alaska from the Lower 48. I would even go so far as to suggest that those of us further east could pick up other roadgeeks along the way northwestward, and have a typical number of four per vehicle. That would divide room costs by two, and gas costs by four.
Quote from: Brandon on June 12, 2015, 04:26:18 PM
Yeah, there are some very long travel times to get to Alaska from the Lower 48. I would even go so far as to suggest that those of us further east could pick up other roadgeeks along the way northwestward, and have a typical number of four per vehicle. That would divide room costs by two, and gas costs by four.
I have picked-up a roadgeek friend and car-pooled to destinations a lot closer than Alaska recently. That works fine.
I absolutely loved Alaska when we went there in 2005 for a cruise. Funny thing, as I type this my parents are up there on the land portion preceding a similar cruise itinerary. They went to Whitehorse, Dawson City, Fairbanks, and Denali, and they're scheduled to arrive in Anchorage sometime today. My father mentioned that Holland America chartered an Air North Boeing 737 to fly the group from Dawson City to Fairbanks–they used to use a bus, but the long travel time coupled with the extremely rough road meant they were constantly repairing the bus, so now they fly everyone (which would be interesting too, seeing as how Dawson City does not have a paved runway–I find it tough to picture a 737 on an unpaved runway).
The biggest difficulty is the sheer size of Alaska. If you don't expect to get up there again, you'll want to see as much as possible while you're there, and the distances are VAST.
BTW, don't forget if you plan to drive to Alaska from the "Lower 48" you should account for car maintenance–possible oil change and tire rotation sometime en route, depending on what you drive. (I would love to drive there someday. I'm sure I never will. I missed my chance in 1997: I had a telephone interview for a summer job with a law firm in Anchorage and if they'd hired me I would have driven out, one way across the USA and the other way across Canada. I didn't get the job.)
Count me in as a definite maybe for an Alaska meet in 2017. It sounds a bit far-fetched that I'd be able to drive there from Michigan, but I wouldn't say it's completely out of the question. However, I'm not getting any younger. I figure by the time the summer of 2017 arrives, my Hyundai will have about 100,000 miles on it. And hopefully that will be okay. I'm not sure how well-maintained the Alaska Highway is and how my car would handle that drive with 100,000 miles on it - but it would be worth a shot. I figure I will definitely need a couple oil changes and a tire rotation somewhere along the way there and back.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 12, 2015, 05:49:32 PM
I absolutely loved Alaska when we went there in 2005 for a cruise. Funny thing, as I type this my parents are up there on the land portion preceding a similar cruise itinerary. They went to Whitehorse, Dawson City, Fairbanks, and Denali, and they're scheduled to arrive in Anchorage sometime today. My father mentioned that Holland America chartered an Air North Boeing 737 to fly the group from Dawson City to Fairbanks—they used to use a bus, but the long travel time coupled with the extremely rough road meant they were constantly repairing the bus, so now they fly everyone (which would be interesting too, seeing as how Dawson City does not have a paved runway—I find it tough to picture a 737 on an unpaved runway).
The biggest difficulty is the sheer size of Alaska. If you don't expect to get up there again, you'll want to see as much as possible while you're there, and the distances are VAST.
BTW, don't forget if you plan to drive to Alaska from the "Lower 48" you should account for car maintenance—possible oil change and tire rotation sometime en route, depending on what you drive. (I would love to drive there someday. I'm sure I never will. I missed my chance in 1997: I had a telephone interview for a summer job with a law firm in Anchorage and if they'd hired me I would have driven out, one way across the USA and the other way across Canada. I didn't get the job.)
RE: Maintenance - keep in mind it's highway miles so you can stretch it past the severe conditions mileage (stretch 3k to 5k for example). My habit: before a multi-day drive - get it done right before (even it not due because you'll be burning it.) It's 3400 miles OW to Anchorage from my place (1 week drive). Google's being sarcastic too - it knows I need to clinch US-52.
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 12, 2015, 09:23:48 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on June 12, 2015, 05:49:32 PM
BTW, don't forget if you plan to drive to Alaska from the "Lower 48" you should account for car maintenance–possible oil change and tire rotation sometime en route, depending on what you drive. (I would love to drive there someday. I'm sure I never will. I missed my chance in 1997: I had a telephone interview for a summer job with a law firm in Anchorage and if they'd hired me I would have driven out, one way across the USA and the other way across Canada. I didn't get the job.)
RE: Maintenance - keep in mind it's highway miles so you can stretch it past the severe conditions mileage (stretch 3k to 5k for example). My habit: before a multi-day drive - get it done right before (even it not due because you'll be burning it.) It's 3400 miles OW to Anchorage from my place (1 week drive). Google's being sarcastic too - it knows I need to clinch US-52.
My car tells me when it wants or needs its oil changed. I could drive to Alaska and back and still have enough oil life left for another drive to Alaska.
quote fixed --sso
Quote from: hbelkins on June 12, 2015, 10:09:46 PM
My car tells me when it wants or needs its oil changed. I could drive to Alaska and back and still have enough oil life left for another drive to Alaska.
As does mine...averages about 13,000 miles between oil changes, pretty consistently over the 225,000 miles I have on it. The dealer has never told me the old oil was either too low a volume or too sludgy...
Mike
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2015, 10:21:06 PM
Not a chance.
1.) No money.
2.) No passport (yet).
3.) I don't fly.
Not flying should not be an issue (if you have the time for such a long trip across the continent, of course).
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on June 12, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
I figure by the time the summer of 2017 arrives, my Hyundai will have about 100,000 miles on it. And hopefully that will be okay. I'm not sure how well-maintained the Alaska Highway is and how my car would handle that drive with 100,000 miles on it - but it would be worth a shot. I figure I will definitely need a couple oil changes and a tire rotation somewhere along the way there and back.
The 1982 Honda Accord I took on my first drive to Alaska in 1994 had well over 100,000 miles on it. My only mechanical issue was an unusual one -- my car had two fuel pumps, and the one in the fuel tank failed, so I had to keep the engine revs up through the Yukon and into the panhandle, to help the front fuel pump make up for the DOA rear pump. Fortunately, (a) the Honda dealer in Juneau was across the street from the airport, (b) the mechanic there instantly figured out the problem, and (c) I already had booked flights for a day trip to and from Sitka. So I just dropped my car at the dealer, had fun in Sitka, and my car was fixed by the time I got back to Juneau.
The Alaska Highway is fairly well-maintained, fully paved except for temporary long stretches of gravel on segments (usually at least one) being reconstructed.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 12, 2015, 11:15:01 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2015, 10:21:06 PM
Not a chance.
1.) No money.
2.) No passport (yet).
3.) I don't fly.
Not flying should not be an issue (if you have the time for such a long trip across the continent, of course).
In particular, people can take a ferry out of Bellingham WA to various points in southeast Alaska, with some sailings continuing to the Anchorage area, completely avoiding Canadian border controls (even though the ferry passes through Canadian waters). That option is especially useful to people who Canada won't let drive through due to DUI or other criminal records, or who want to bring handguns or other restricted/prohibited firearms with them.
I changed my oil right before embarking on my last trip and had it changed maybe 6500 miles later at a place in Washington state where the dude was a bit impressed to see someone stroll in with New York plates. I did not rotate my tires during the trip but this was deliberate since I had (and still have) two older tires on the back and two new tires on the front. I didn't want to risk wearing down the treads on the older pair too far before I got home so I left them in the back. I'll move them to the front when I get them replaced.
With regards to Alaska driving, Dalton sounds much more exciting than the Alaska highway since it'd be a very different environment from anything I'm used to. I see trees all the time. Tundra? Not so much.
Alaska is definitely on my bucket list of places to visit before I die, so going to an Alaska road meet would not be out of the question for me. I don't think that I'd be driving on the Alaska Highway to do it though, but rather I would fly out West, spend a few days visiting family in Oregon, then fly up to Alaska from there.
The Dalton is a highway that I have been fascinated with.
The idea of carpooling sounds like a nice way to reduce the costs. If drivers were rotated, it would help prevent fatigue and also reduce the vacation time needed by increasing the number of hours driven each day.
2016 is definitely out for me, and 2017 may be pushing it. In any case, it would likely be the only roadmeet I attend in whatever year it's in if I go, due to the cost and amount of vacation time needed. Since summer is the busy season at NYSDOT, I would need plans to be nailed down WELL in advance in order to coordinate my time off at work.
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 12, 2015, 09:23:48 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 12, 2015, 05:49:32 PM
I absolutely loved Alaska when we went there in 2005 for a cruise. Funny thing, as I type this my parents are up there on the land portion preceding a similar cruise itinerary. They went to Whitehorse, Dawson City, Fairbanks, and Denali, and they're scheduled to arrive in Anchorage sometime today. My father mentioned that Holland America chartered an Air North Boeing 737 to fly the group from Dawson City to Fairbanks–they used to use a bus, but the long travel time coupled with the extremely rough road meant they were constantly repairing the bus, so now they fly everyone (which would be interesting too, seeing as how Dawson City does not have a paved runway–I find it tough to picture a 737 on an unpaved runway).
The biggest difficulty is the sheer size of Alaska. If you don't expect to get up there again, you'll want to see as much as possible while you're there, and the distances are VAST.
BTW, don't forget if you plan to drive to Alaska from the "Lower 48" you should account for car maintenance–possible oil change and tire rotation sometime en route, depending on what you drive. (I would love to drive there someday. I'm sure I never will. I missed my chance in 1997: I had a telephone interview for a summer job with a law firm in Anchorage and if they'd hired me I would have driven out, one way across the USA and the other way across Canada. I didn't get the job.)
RE: Maintenance - keep in mind it's highway miles so you can stretch it past the severe conditions mileage (stretch 3k to 5k for example). My habit: before a multi-day drive - get it done right before (even it not due because you'll be burning it.) It's 3400 miles OW to Anchorage from my place (1 week drive). Google's being sarcastic too - it knows I need to clinch US-52.
Yeah, of course. I was trying not to be too specific because different cars have different schedules and different car owners have different preferences as to how they handle maintenance. My Acura dings at me when maintenance is due and I've done fine following that schedule. (The nuisance about this is that it makes it difficult to do maintenance in advance because there's no way to know what code it's going to display. I can usually predict about how far I can go on the highway before it'll ding at me, but I can't predict which code it'll throw except I knew at 105,000 miles it would call for a timing belt, which I had already done three years earlier.)
I know some people who are sticklers for changing the oil every 3000 to 5000 miles. I think that's unnecessarily frequent, but I'm not going to tell someone else how he should maintain his car.
Speaking of all highway miles, last year my brother sold his 2005 Honda Civic to Carmax. It had around 197,500 miles on the odometer, the vast majority highway miles (but he never made it to Alaska or Mexico). The most remarkable aspect? He was still on the original clutch.
Regarding Alaska, vdeane's comment about summertime prompts me to note that summer is great for exploring Alaska because of the very long days. In most of the state, other than the Panhandle, it doesn't really get dark in June. Even in early August, in Anchorage it's still nice and bright at 11:30 PM. Our flight (nonstop from Atlanta to Anchorage) landed at 9:35 PM local time and it was as bright as midday in Virginia. My father said last weekend when they were in Dawson City in the Yukon, sunrise was at 4:02 AM and sunset was at 12:32 AM. But it doesn't really get "dark" in the sense those of us in the Lower 48 are used to seeing. It's one of the weird things as you travel south from Alaska how noticeable the darkness is. (Heck, I notice the difference between sunset times here in the DC area versus Florida when we go down there. At Christmas, sunset down there is a good half an hour later than it is here.)
I've thought more about timing an Alaska trip to be in September or thereabouts. I don't want it to be ungodly cold, but I don't want near-perpetual daylight either since that means no Aurora viewing.
Quote from: Duke87 on June 13, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
I've thought more about timing an Alaska trip to be in September or thereabouts. I don't want it to be ungodly cold, but I don't want near-perpetual daylight either since that means no Aurora viewing.
We went in August because of the combination of the cruise line schedule and airline availability. Ms1995hoo had won two free tickets anywhere in the USA on Delta as a door prize at her office Christmas party. (Thankfully, they let us do an open jaw flying home out of Vancouver.)
Quote from: Duke87 on June 13, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
I've thought more about timing an Alaska trip to be in September or thereabouts. I don't want it to be ungodly cold, but I don't want near-perpetual daylight either since that means no Aurora viewing.
I haven't been there except during the peak summer months, so I can't comment with authority. But it may help to be even later in the year, and in Fairbanks rather than Anchorage. Japanese tourists like to visit Fairbanks in the winter, and watch the auroras while soaking in Chena Hot Springs. OTOH, the short hours of daylight that improve aurora viewing also means less time each day for roadgeeking. There might be a sweet spot with enough time to roadgeek in daylight and view the auroras at night, without freezing your ass off (unless you're at Chena, in which case you'll freeze only getting into and out of hot water). But my hunch is that aurora viewing and roadgeeking are probably best done on separate trips. agentsteel did an aurora trip in recent years, and his trip report might help decide timing. So might the Milepost guide to Arctic travel, though I don't have my copy with me on the road on how helpful it is on aurora viewing, or other relevant issues.
===
Two other issues:
-- Mosquitoes. They don't seem to like me very much, but YMMV. Going early in the year might give us more daylight than we could possibly use, while still chilly enough to keep the mosquitoes from coming out.
-- Lodging availability can be an issue, especially for four-walls-and-a-roof guys like me. The problem is that Alaska has such a short tourist season, that it can't support an ample supply of tourist accommodations, so the ones that exist tend to be pricey, especially the ones that survive year-round by catering to business travelers. There are some good deals out there, and also raw deals (like one in Anchorage I recall having four floors and no elevator). An abundance of campgrounds and B&Bs help fill in the gap, at least in the seasons when they're open. Since Anchorage and Juneau get some year-round business travel (and for Anchorage, medical travel), availability might be better there, but not necessarily pricing, In short, research this out ahead of time. Shoulder seasons (such as, perhaps, May or September) might help here.
Quote from: vdeane on June 13, 2015, 09:02:49 PM
The Dalton is a highway that I have been fascinated with.
Yes, but driving it on your own requires good equipment and other preparation, starting with two full-size mounted spares, which like the other four need to be light-truck rather than passenger-car tires (which seem to get lots of flats). It's unsuitable for rental vehicles (most companies specifically forbid driving the Dalton), except the ones specially ruggedized for the Dalton and priced accordingly.
One good option might be a tour operator, which can supply the needed equipment and other logistical support. My 1994 trip included a two-day one-way van tour, with a flight back to Fairbanks (optional stopover in Barrow -- I stayed on the plane) at the end of day 2. This trip can be done in reverse order, to fill the vans on their return to Fairbanks. There are also day tours to the Arctic Circle (mile 115) and back. My 2012 trip was in my own vehicle, a full-size pickup truck with four light-truck tires on the corners and two mounted light-truck spares in the back (which I never had to use, even on several roads even worse than the Dalton).
If I go, I'll likely take my Jeep Liberty as opposed to my VW. I already have one full sized spare, and would likely mount one of my snow tires on a junkyard rim for a second. It has over 100K on it but is running strong, and I just bought brand new tires for it. Registration and insurance cost basically nothing in Montana, so I keep it around even though it only gets about three thousand miles of use per year nowadays.
My plan would be to drive the Dalton in addition to spending some time in the NWT on the way to the meet - probably taking two weeks off work to do this. I may not be interested in carpooling up the Alaska Highway from a logistics perspective, but I'd definitely be happy to shuttle folks up the Dalton and back.
I'd echo Anthony's suggestion for September or so - I like long days, but I'm realistically not going to drive more than 12 hours a day or so, and the chance to see the aurora is important. September 2016 is a little bit dicey for me in my current work situation (though not at all out of the question), but September 2017 should be wide open.
September sounds good. Still busy season, but not as bad, and more people are in the office to possibly cover since they're not taking the kids out on vacation. If we could do the carpooling and keep the drive time there/back to a minimum, I could probably do this as long as it's planned far enough ahead and I keep the rest of my travel that year to family visits and day trips. I have 14 vacation days/year to play with and can bank some, but I'd still like to not clean out the accrual completely.
Quote from: oscar on June 14, 2015, 12:17:06 AM
Quote from: vdeane on June 13, 2015, 09:02:49 PM
The Dalton is a highway that I have been fascinated with.
Yes, but driving it on your own requires good equipment and other preparation, starting with two full-size mounted spares, which like the other four need to be light-truck rather than passenger-car tires (which seem to get lots of flats). It's unsuitable for rental vehicles (most companies specifically forbid driving the Dalton), except the ones specially ruggedized for the Dalton and priced accordingly.
One good option might be a tour operator, which can supply the needed equipment and other logistical support. My 1994 trip included a two-day one-way van tour, with a flight back to Fairbanks (optional stopover in Barrow -- I stayed on the plane) at the end of day 2. This trip can be done in reverse order, to fill the vans on their return to Fairbanks. There are also day tours to the Arctic Circle (mile 115) and back. My 2012 trip was in my own vehicle, a full-size pickup truck with four light-truck tires on the corners and two mounted light-truck spares in the back (which I never had to use, even on several roads even worse than the Dalton).
Which is why I'd only go on it via a group roadgeek tour or on one of the tour busses that goes up.
Quote from: vdeane on June 14, 2015, 04:48:18 PM
September sounds good. Still busy season, but not as bad, and more people are in the office to possibly cover since they're not taking the kids out on vacation. If we could do the carpooling and keep the drive time there/back to a minimum, I could probably do this as long as it's planned far enough ahead and I keep the rest of my travel that year to family visits and day trips. I have 14 vacation days/year to play with and can bank some, but I'd still like to not clean out the accrual completely.
The thing about September is that those of us who are Jewish have our High Holy Days in that month, so it's often a difficult time for us to get away. If September were to work for a 2-3 week trip for me, it would need to be either early in the month in a year when the holidays fall late or late in the month in a year when the holidays fall early.
Ha! I'm already starting to get excited thinking of the prospect of driving from Michigan to Alaska and back. I already started thinking of a potential route. Here's what I came up with (assuming anyone riding with me would be up for this):
Day 1 - Grand Rapids MI to the Twin Cities MN
Day 2 - The Twin Cities to Regina SK via I-29, Winnipeg, and the Trans-Canada Highway (MB-1 and SK-1)
Day 3 - Regina to Edmonton AB via Calgary and AB-2
Day 4 - Edmonton to Fort Nelson BC
Day 5 - Fort Nelson to Whitehorse YT
Day 6 - Whitehorse to Fairbanks AK
Day 7 - Fairbanks to Anchorage
That might be ambitious but maybe not. Does the Alaska Highway have plenty of gas stops along the way?
Going back, I'd probably want to spend more time in the U.S. - driving through Washington, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, etc. This trip would easily be a two-week venture but I'd so want to do it.
I saw some nice aurorae in mid-August.
Quote from: Alps on June 15, 2015, 08:50:15 AM
I saw some nice aurorae in mid-August.
I so want to see one in person. It's so cool!
Some who seem to tend to balk at the idea of a geek-meet/road-trip to Alaska are spooked by the three weeks or so on the road. Allow me to offer a cooperative compromise possibility. Perhaps some of us have vehicles with surplus passenger and cargo capacity, and fewer time constraints. If so, they could caravan to a point near the south end of the Al-Can Highway. For discussion's sake, let's say Edmonton. The folks with tighter timelines could fly to Edmonton and meet up with those drivers with extra capacity. From there we could all caravan together to Fairbanks (three twelve-hour travel days, or so), meet and tour around Fairbanks, a travel day to Anchorage, and a tour day there. For those with tough time constraints, a flight home from Anchorage. It could be easily done with one week of vacation and two weekends. Those with as much as two weeks of vacation could continue with the tour back toward Edmonton, including side trips to the coastal towns accessible only from Canada. With enough time for advance planning, it could be done.
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 02, 2015, 10:52:00 PM
Some who seem to tend to balk at the idea of a geek-meet/road-trip to Alaska are spooked by the three weeks or so on the road. Allow me to offer a cooperative compromise possibility. Perhaps some of us have vehicles with surplus passenger and cargo capacity, and fewer time constraints. If so, they could caravan to a point near the south end of the Al-Can Highway. For discussion's sake, let's say Edmonton. The folks with tighter timelines could fly to Edmonton and meet up with those drivers with extra capacity. From there we could all caravan together to Fairbanks (three twelve-hour travel days, or so), meet and tour around Fairbanks, a travel day to Anchorage, and a tour day there. For those with tough time constraints, a flight home from Anchorage. It could be easily done with one week of vacation and two weekends. Those with as much as two weeks of vacation could continue with the tour back toward Edmonton, including side trips to the coastal towns accessible only from Canada. With enough time for advance planning, it could be done.
Although I'm interested, I'm thinking the financial burdens would keep attendance pretty low to the point of making the meet not viable.
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 03, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Because it's there.
Quote from: Rothman on August 03, 2015, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 03, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Because it's there.
It's so much different than anything we have in the mainland US.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 03, 2015, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 03, 2015, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 03, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Because it's there.
It's so much different than anything we have in the mainland US.
Also, Deadhorse is the northernmost point you can drive to in this hemisphere.
Quote from: dgolub on August 03, 2015, 06:55:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 03, 2015, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 03, 2015, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 03, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Because it's there.
It's so much different than anything we have in the mainland US.
Also, Deadhorse is the northernmost point you can drive to in this hemisphere.
The Dalton Highway fascinates me as well, but I don't see myself ever driving it. I'd be too afraid of getting stranded in the middle of nowhere with hundreds of miles between services. If I were more handy with car maintenance (like, if I knew how to change a tire, diagnose problems, etc.), that would be one thing. But I'm not handy with that kinda stuff. Wouldn't trust myself to do it. On the other hand, if I were riding with someone else (or on a bus tour or something), I'd be all for that.
It would be so neat to take a highway to the Arctic Ocean!
fixed quote? --sso
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 03, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Ah, the Dalton. Interesting? Boring? The two would seem to be in conflict. but not really. Parts of this road would be intensely interesting, other parts less so. The first time I travel any road it is not boring to me. This would be necessarily a two-day venture. Day One northbound would be too cool for words. I know for sure I would still enjoy the Day Two southbound trip, but I understand why others might not. If I do this (Oh hell, let's be optimistic. WHEN I do this), I may very well drive the warhorse Prius to Fairbanks, but rental from there. http://www.alaska.org/detail/arctic-outfitters-car-rentals With the right equipment at the right time of year, this does not seem scary to me.
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 03, 2015, 11:41:18 PM
Ah, the Dalton. Interesting? Boring? The two would seem to be in conflict. but not really. Parts of this road would be intensely interesting, other parts less so. The first time I travel any road it is not boring to me. This would be necessarily a two-day venture. Day One northbound would be too cool for words. I know for sure I would still enjoy the Day Two southbound trip, but I understand why others might not. If I do this (Oh hell, let's be optimistic. WHEN I do this), I may very well drive the warhorse Prius to Fairbanks, but rental from there. http://www.alaska.org/detail/arctic-outfitters-car-rentals With the right equipment at the right time of year, this does not seem scary to me.
I would definitely be up for riding with you on this drive, Brian. Someday... let's make this happen. :)
On a recent road trip, my girlfriend asked me if I wanted to drive to Alaska. I'm like, don't ask me such questions, of course the answer is yes. We're still in the early planning stages and while I would love to drive the Dalton, I think I would drive to Fairbanks on a first trip and then take another trip where I drive the Dalton. We would probably take her Ford Explorer and I would do all the driving. I personally don't think it would be that bad in the summer and I think it looks pretty awesome. She already has one full size spare tire and we would just need another. I would take an actual hydraulic jack, some jack stands and a breaker bar to not have to rely on the jack and tire iron that comes with the vehicle for safety in case I do have a flat (or 2).
What is the issue with the Dalton and flat tires? Is there an enhanced danger of having a flat, or is it because services are so isolated?
Seems to me that if it's the latter, a tire plug kit, a portable compressor and a couple of cans of Fix-A-Flat would take up a lot less space than multiple spares.
It's my understanding it's combination of both isolation and massive potholes. I recall seeing somewhere that Oscar has driven it and didn't have a flat, but I can understand the logic.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 06, 2015, 01:27:29 PM
What is the issue with the Dalton and flat tires? Is there an enhanced danger of having a flat, or is it because services are so isolated?
Probably a combination -- mostly gravel surfaces (and much of the "pavement" is pretty bad too), long distances, and high speeds. That means too high a risk that if you get one flat, you'll get another before you can reach a place where you can get the first flat fixed -- or you can always get two flats at once, which is not unheard of. On the highway, tire repair is available only at mile 56, mile 175, and the north end at mile 414.
That said, the only times I've heard of problems with flats (aside from "Ice Road Truckers") are with people driving on regular passenger car tires. More rugged light truck tires seem to fare better. Mine had no flats or other problems doing a round trip on the Dalton, and many other roads in the Arctic that are as brutal as the Dalton or sometimes even worse. The van I rode in one-way on the Dalton in 1994 also had no flats on that trip.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 06, 2015, 01:27:29 PM
Seems to me that if it's the latter, a tire plug kit, a portable compressor and a couple of cans of Fix-A-Flat would take up a lot less space than multiple spares.
I routinely bring a portable compressor and one can of Fix-A-Flat in my truck. I have no experience with tire plug kits, though I've heard people use them on some rotten back roads in the Death Valley area. On the Dalton, I imagine the mosquitoes might devour you during the time needed to plug a flat tire roadside. I'm also unsure how well a quickie Fix-a-Flat repair would last on an unpaved road like the Dalton. Veterans of that road might know more on these points, though they are the same folks who insist that you bring two mounted full-size spares.
Quote from: skaguy on August 06, 2015, 01:57:20 PM
It's my understanding it's combination of both isolation and massive potholes.
Potholes are not the main surface problem on the Dalton, unless it's rained and the graders haven't had a chance to smooth out the surface. I've driven on much worse.
I've carried a portable compressor with me for years on road trips and storm chases. The one I have now also has a jumper on it as well. I've never had to use it, but it never hurts to have it.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on August 04, 2015, 11:44:03 AM
I would definitely be up for riding with you on this drive, Brian. Someday... let's make this happen. :)
That would be great, A.J. Summer of 2017? 2018? Earlier today I was talking with a guy who just got back from two weeks in Alaska with his wife and two daughters. It was hugely expensive for him, but part of that was accommodating the kids. There are ways to economize. One way is to split the costs as many ways as possible. Would a Ford Escape handle four adults and all the gear?
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 07, 2015, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on August 04, 2015, 11:44:03 AM
I would definitely be up for riding with you on this drive, Brian. Someday... let's make this happen. :)
That would be great, A.J. Summer of 2017? 2018? Earlier today I was talking with a guy who just got back from two weeks in Alaska with his wife and two daughters. It was hugely expensive for him, but part of that was accommodating the kids. There are ways to economize. One way is to split the costs as many ways as possible. Would a Ford Escape handle four adults and all the gear?
If the road meet happens in the summer of '17 it's possible we can swing the Dalton drive around that time. However, I'll have to see how much vacation time I have and how much I might need. My original thought about attending the Alaska road meet did not include a trip on the Dalton but if that's your best opportunity to do it, maybe I can take extra vacation days and swing it.
The more people, the merrier. A Ford Escape sounds like it might be reasonable. :)
Read somewhere that you have to be on an official tour to get to the Arctic Ocean from Deadhorse:
http://www.arcticoceanshuttle.com/AOS/
Quote from: Rothman on August 07, 2015, 01:33:23 PM
Read somewhere that you have to be on an official tour to get to the Arctic Ocean from Deadhorse:
http://www.arcticoceanshuttle.com/AOS/
Yes. You have to sign up for a tour at least a day before, supply an ID number such as from a DL or passport for the oil companies to check out, then show the same ID when you're picked up for your tour. Can't have Commie saboteurs passing through their oil fields, y'know. :)
I arranged my 2012 tour through the "hotel" (converted construction camp, similar to other lodgings along the highway) I had reserved for the evening before. I also went in 1994, but that was part of the van tour I took up from Fairbanks before we went to the airport to fly on to Barrow or back to Fairbanks. The 1994 tour was preceded by a half-hour of oil company propaganda, essentially "we haven't spilled any oil up here, the Exxon Valdez spill was someone else's fault, and could we please please pretty-please start drilling in the wildlife refuge next door?". None of that in 2012, but I had to pay for that tour.
Notwithstanding what was stated in the link above, I was able to wade into the Arctic Ocean on both tours. The shallow waters where we went had temps in the low 50s, warmed by a few months of 24-hour daylight.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on August 07, 2015, 12:40:12 PM
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 07, 2015, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on August 04, 2015, 11:44:03 AM
I would definitely be up for riding with you on this drive, Brian. Someday... let's make this happen. :)
That would be great, A.J. Summer of 2017? 2018? Earlier today I was talking with a guy who just got back from two weeks in Alaska with his wife and two daughters. It was hugely expensive for him, but part of that was accommodating the kids. There are ways to economize. One way is to split the costs as many ways as possible. Would a Ford Escape handle four adults and all the gear?
If the road meet happens in the summer of '17 it's possible we can swing the Dalton drive around that time. However, I'll have to see how much vacation time I have and how much I might need. My original thought about attending the Alaska road meet did not include a trip on the Dalton but if that's your best opportunity to do it, maybe I can take extra vacation days and swing it.
The more people, the merrier. A Ford Escape sounds like it might be reasonable. :)
I might be able to be involved *slim chance* given it's that far out and I sacrifice any home project plans I would make to the next year. Gas isn't cheap in AK. :sombrero:
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 08, 2015, 09:57:01 PM
Gas isn't cheap in AK. :sombrero:
I've been obsessing about Alaska for the past few days, looking at various scenarios for travel (lots of videos on Youtube). Best I can tell, nothing is cheap (or even affordable) in Alaska. It will cost a small fortune to get there, another small fortune to travel to the places you can see by road, and a third small fortune to travel to those places only served by the marine highway. After all that, it will take yet another medium-sized fortune to get to the more remote outposts. Without a group effort to share costs, I doubt that I will get very far. I would really like to partner with three or four frugally-minded road-trippers to do this. Summer solstice of 2017 anyone?
I might be interested in the way future (2017 or 18 at the earliest). I have relatives in Anchorage, so I'd probably only need to pay for airfare if it's being held there.
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 08, 2015, 09:57:01 PM
Gas isn't cheap in AK. :sombrero:
Not that bad in the major cities. The Canadian parts of the Alaska Highway are worse, both because of remoteness, and also because Canada, if that's how you plan to get there.
As Brian points out, a lot of other stuff in Alaska is pricey. But one thing it's good at, for the frugally-minded, is abundant camping opportunities and B&Bs in season.
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 09, 2015, 12:15:41 AM
It will cost a small fortune to get there, another small fortune to travel to the places you can see by road, and a third small fortune to travel to those places only served by the marine highway. After all that, it will take yet another medium-sized fortune to get to the more remote outposts.
All the more reason to plan on multiple trips to Alaska, so your wallet might have a chance to recover between trips. I did it all, but it took me four trips (plus a fifth largely devoted to the worst roads I couldn't do in a subcompact car or a rental). We both know of county-counting crazies who tried (not always successfully) to do it all in on one trip, but that is truly insane. A first trip as a "sampler", with plans to go back for more later, is a better strategy.
Of course, planning to come back works better when you're willing to fly.
Quote from: vdeane on August 09, 2015, 12:48:49 PM
Of course, planning to come back works better when you're willing to fly.
Yeah, much as I hate to fly, my trips 2-4 to Alaska were flyouts. (I could accumulate enough leave to take off two months for my first trip to Alaska, which was a drive-out, but new managements pressed me to take more "normal" vacations for trips 2-4. I had retired by trip 5, which was also a long drive-out trip though mostly in Canada.) At least trip 2 was just before 9/11 so TSA was less aggravating than it is now, and trips 3 and 4 each included several TSA-free propjet flights in western Alaska.
I would love to drive to Alaska from my home in Maryland. Coast-to-coast, in a way.
Regarding tires - I think if you drive a pickup or larger SUV (Explorer, Suburban, Cherokee), with good-quality mud/snow tires (I prefer Michelins, pricy but pretty resistant to road hazards), I suspect it would not be a problem on the Dalton.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 10, 2015, 12:18:14 PM
Regarding tires - I think if you drive a pickup or larger SUV (Explorer, Suburban, Cherokee), with good-quality mud/snow tires (I prefer Michelins, pricy but pretty resistant to road hazards), I suspect it would not be a problem on the Dalton.
That sounds right, but some of the el-cheapo OEM tires (like the ones that came with my pickup truck, but were quickly replaced) I might not trust. I definitely would not trust the crap tires mounted on most rental SUVs and pickup trucks (not counting the ruggedized vehicles specifically allowed on the Dalton).
But still bring a full-size mounted spare, in addition to the one you already have.
Quote from: oscar on August 10, 2015, 04:45:51 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 10, 2015, 12:18:14 PM
Regarding tires - I think if you drive a pickup or larger SUV (Explorer, Suburban, Cherokee), with good-quality mud/snow tires (I prefer Michelins, pricy but pretty resistant to road hazards), I suspect it would not be a problem on the Dalton.
That sounds right, but some of the el-cheapo OEM tires (like the ones that came with my pickup truck, but were quickly replaced) I might not trust. I definitely would not trust the crap tires mounted on most rental SUVs and pickup trucks (not counting the ruggedized vehicles specifically allowed on the Dalton).
But still bring a full-size mounted spare, in addition to the one you already have.
A well-graded gravel road shouldn't claim any tires at all, mind you, as long as you don't get mind-numbed by the scenery and miss a pothole or errant pointy rock.
Quote from: oscar on August 09, 2015, 01:00:10 AM
All the more reason to plan on multiple trips to Alaska, so your wallet might have a chance to recover between trips. I did it all, but it took me four trips (plus a fifth largely devoted to the worst roads I couldn't do in a subcompact car or a rental). We both know of county-counting crazies who tried (not always successfully) to do it all in on one trip, but that is truly insane. A first trip as a "sampler", with plans to go back for more later, is a better strategy.
Yeah. That's why I'm a bit hesitant on 2017 for the Dalton drive. 2018 might be better, but on the other hand, I really want to attempt this with other folks just like Brian suggested (to help split the costs). If '17 or '18 is Brian's only opportunity to do the Dalton drive, I might have to be flexible on that - just because I don't know when I'd have another opportunity to do something like this for with like-minded folks.
There are at least three Alaska trips I'd love to take in my lifetime: 1) the road meet in 2017 (driving there and back), 2) a drive up and down the Dalton Highway (with the Arctic Ocean tour that Oscar was talking about), and 3) a flight to Nome and back while exploring Nome for a few days. I just hope I can somehow combine numbers 1 and 2.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on August 10, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
Yeah. That's why I'm a bit hesitant on 2017 for the Dalton drive. 2018 might be better, but on the other hand, I really want to attempt this with other folks just like Brian suggested (to help split the costs). If '17 or '18 is Brian's only opportunity to do the Dalton drive, I might have to be flexible on that - just because I don't know when I'd have another opportunity to do something like this for with like-minded folks.
There are at least three Alaska trips I'd love to take in my lifetime: 1) the road meet in 2017 (driving there and back), 2) a drive up and down the Dalton Highway (with the Arctic Ocean tour that Oscar was talking about), and 3) a flight to Nome and back while exploring Nome for a few days. I just hope I can somehow combine numbers 1 and 2.
If you do Nome, do Kotzebue too, which gives you that borough (Northwest Arctic) with little extra time and cost from the triangular trip. I went to Nome and back without Kotzebue, in 2001 before I got into county-counting. Big mistake! My later trip just to snag Kotzebue cost me $600 just for the airfare. But Nome is a great first venture off the main road network (Dutch Harbor and Kodiak would be my second and third choices), with an extensive unpaved and unnumbered highway network of its own.
On the Dalton drive, keep an eye on the project to relocate the first < 10 miles sometime this decade, if you care about clinching that segment along with the rest of the highway.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on August 10, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
Yeah. That's why I'm a bit hesitant on 2017 for the Dalton drive. 2018 might be better, but on the other hand, I really want to attempt this with other folks just like Brian suggested (to help split the costs). If '17 or '18 is Brian's only opportunity to do the Dalton drive, I might have to be flexible on that - just because I don't know when I'd have another opportunity to do something like this for with like-minded folks.
There are at least three Alaska trips I'd love to take in my lifetime: 1) the road meet in 2017 (driving there and back), 2) a drive up and down the Dalton Highway (with the Arctic Ocean tour that Oscar was talking about), and 3) a flight to Nome and back while exploring Nome for a few days. I just hope I can somehow combine numbers 1 and 2.
Is the 2017 meet a sure thing? A.J., based on your comments, I am ready to defer the Dalton adventure until 2018, but I'd like to make it part of a meet somewhere in Alaska. I will definitely have to scrimp and save, and 2018 gives me another year to do so. But if I wait (and save) that long, it will be an epic adventure for me.
My proposal. I would like to time my visit to Deadhorse/Prudhoe for the summer solstice, which will be June 21, 2018 at 10:10 GMT, which would be evening local time (but still a month or two before sunset). That happens to fall on a Thursday, not that anything that happens in Alaska will be weekend-dependent. If there would be a Fairbanks meet associated with this, it would probably be two or three days before or after the solstice. If it was Anchorage-based, it should be a day or two further out. My personal preference would be for Fairbanks, but not really for any road-related reasons. If there is a good reason to meet elsewhere, I can surely be persuaded.
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 14, 2015, 08:31:06 PM
My proposal. I would like to time my visit to Deadhorse/Prudhoe for the summer solstice, which will be June 21, 2018 at 10:10 GMT, which would be evening local time (but still a month or two before sunset). That happens to fall on a Thursday, not that anything that happens in Alaska will be weekend-dependent. If there would be a Fairbanks meet associated with this, it would probably be two or three days before or after the solstice. If it was Anchorage-based, it should be a day or two further out. My personal preference would be for Fairbanks, but not really for any road-related reasons. If there is a good reason to meet elsewhere, I can surely be persuaded.
Why the focus on the solstice? Even south of the Arctic Circle down to Anchorage, for at least all of June and a good part of July you'll have more daylight than you can possibly use, unless (a) you try to drive 18 hours or more per day, and (b) can't stand night driving. Even in the lower latitudes you'll be driving from or through, you'll have lots or daylight for weeks before and weeks after the solstice. So I'd try to optimize for other factors, such as mosquito avoidance.
Quote from: oscar on August 15, 2015, 11:17:38 AM
Why the focus on the solstice? Even south of the Arctic Circle down to Anchorage, for at least all of June and a good part of July you'll have more daylight than you can possibly use, unless (a) you try to drive 18 hours or more per day, and (b) can't stand night driving. Even in the lower latitudes you'll be driving from or through, you'll have lots or daylight for weeks before and weeks after the solstice. So I'd try to optimize for other factors, such as mosquito avoidance.
Why the solstice? To experience the midnight sun at its most profound. Maybe I'll make up a pagan ritual just for the moment. As you have already advised, Alaska is too big to be consumed in a single bite. Other trips will be arranged around practical factors like mosquito season. But for the visit to Deadhorse I want to see the midnight sun as far above the horizon as possible.
According to http://www.alaska.org/advice/best-time-to-visit-alaska the optimum time to visit Alaska is June 15 - July 15, all factors considered.
I was thinking more 2017 than 2018.
Quote from: Alps on August 15, 2015, 04:19:20 PM
I was thinking more 2017 than 2018.
Had you focused on a specific date and location?
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 15, 2015, 04:11:47 PM
Why the solstice? To experience the midnight sun at its most profound. Maybe I'll make up a pagan ritual just for the moment. As you have already advised, Alaska is too big to be consumed in a single bite. Other trips will be arranged around practical factors like mosquito season. But for the visit to Deadhorse I want to see the midnight sun as far above the horizon as possible.
Heh. Only time I "experienced" 24-hour daylight, in Coldfoot when I was more than twenty years younger, I slept right through the midnight sun. My other evenings north of the Arctic Circle were in late July or August, well after the first sunset of the summer.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 03, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
I really don't know why everyone wants to drive the Dalton - although it would be interesting, it would also be pretty darn boring.
Because you can. The Oh Shit Corner sign is famous.
Just curious... is it possible to take a train ride from Albany to Alaska? It might make it less of a stretch for me to get out that way. Though Alaska is a reach for me regardless unless I decide to make an exception to my "no flying" rule.
Quote from: vdeane on August 17, 2015, 12:53:34 PM
Just curious... is it possible to take a train ride from Albany to Alaska? It might make it less of a stretch for me to get out that way. Though Alaska is a reach for me regardless unless I decide to make an exception to my "no flying" rule.
No rail connection between Alaska and the North American rail network. Closest you can get is Vancouver. Could always take a train to Seattle and take the ferry up to Alaska.
Quote from: cl94 on August 17, 2015, 12:57:10 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 17, 2015, 12:53:34 PM
Just curious... is it possible to take a train ride from Albany to Alaska? It might make it less of a stretch for me to get out that way. Though Alaska is a reach for me regardless unless I decide to make an exception to my "no flying" rule.
No rail connection between Alaska and the North American rail network. Closest you can get is Vancouver. Could always take a train to Seattle and take the ferry up to Alaska.
You'd also need to make your way from Seattle to the AMHS ferry dock in Bellingham WA. But once there, you can take the ferry all the way up to Whittier AK, where you have a very easy Alaska Railroad connection to Anchorage, Fairbanks, or other "Railbelt" destinations. And you don't have to clear customs that way, even though you pass non-stop through Canadian waters.
Early reservations are recommended, especially on the popular routes out of Bellingham, if you want to take a vehicle or rent a cabin. Or you can be frugal and bring a sleeping bag to snooze in the solarium (some small self-supporting stake-less tents also work), in which case you might not need reservations as far in advance.
There's an Amtrak line between Seattle and Vancouver that stops right by the Bellingham ferry terminal, so theoretically yes it would be possible for someone to take the train+ferry from Albany to Anchorage.
The most important word is "theoretically." It'd take a very long time and the cost, plus meals (Amtrak fare doesn't include meals except on the Auto Train and in first class on the Acela), probably wouldn't save a whole lot over driving out. I use Amtrak pretty regularly between home and Florida via the Auto Train. That's about a 17-hour train ride and the ride is bumpy. I can't imagine doing it cross-country.
If it weren't for the need to connect to the ferry, vdeane would have another option due to living in Upstate New York–go north to Montreal and take VIA Rail across Canada to Vancouver. I do not know whether it's a better deal than Amtrak or whether the ride is better.
Looks like carpooling is the more effective option. Traveling on my own, it would take ~ 8 days (80 hours) to get up. If the driving could be shared, that would allow for 16 hour days instead of 8, cutting the travel time to ~ 4 days each way... much more reasonable. It would also cut gas/hotel costs in half.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 17, 2015, 08:55:58 PM
The most important word is "theoretically." It'd take a very long time and the cost, plus meals (Amtrak fare doesn't include meals except on the Auto Train and in first class on the Acela), probably wouldn't save a whole lot over driving out. I use Amtrak pretty regularly between home and Florida via the Auto Train. That's about a 17-hour train ride and the ride is bumpy. I can't imagine doing it cross-country.
And the likelihood of delays would require building in lots of time to avoid missing connections.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 17, 2015, 08:55:58 PM
If it weren't for the need to connect to the ferry, vdeane would have another option due to living in Upstate New York–go north to Montreal and take VIA Rail across Canada to Vancouver. I do not know whether it's a better deal than Amtrak or whether the ride is better.
Could connect to the ferry taking Amtrak south to Bellingham WA (means going through customs at both ends of the journey). Or taking VIA Rail to Prince Rupert BC, Alaska Marine Highway ferry into southeast Alaska, then connecting at a port between Ketchikan and Juneau to another AMHS ferry running between Bellingham WA and Whittier AK. But I don't know frequency of VIA Rail service to Prince Rupert, other than it's less than daily. There is no ferry service between Vancouver and Prince Rupert; the only ferry running south from Prince Rupert ends in Port Hardy, well short of Vancouver.
I don't know whether VIA Rail is as bad as Amtrak in sticking to its schedules on its cross-country routes. But VIA Rail warns travelers not to reserve connecting travel for the same day as scheduled arrival.
Quote from: vdeane on August 17, 2015, 09:09:35 PM
Looks like carpooling is the more effective option. Traveling on my own, it would take ~ 8 days (80 hours) to get up. If the driving could be shared, that would allow for 16 hour days instead of 8, cutting the travel time to ~ 4 days each way... much more reasonable. It would also cut gas/hotel costs in half.
Valerie, is your aversion to flying a deep-seated fear (like my mother-in-law) or a mere preference for road-warrior-type travel? I love to travel - via whatever - so flying is not a problem for me. Since I started keeping track of highways and counties, my affinity for flight has diminished dramatically. I used to fly once or twice a year, but it has been almost ten years since my last travel by air.
Our group of road-warriors is a diverse bunch. Some are tightly constrained by family or career considerations. Others are not. This diversity is not a problem, it is an opportunity. A few posts back, I suggested how we might leverage this, but I may not have been expansive enough.
To do Alaska to any meaningful extent (by road only) would require perhaps three consecutive weeks. Figure a week en route there, a similar time en route return, and a week exploring on the ground. Some (not many) of us have the freedom of movement to pull that off.
For illustration purposes only (I am not seizing control of the agenda - yet) let's assume a meet location of Fairbanks. The most heavily constrained among us might only be able to arrange a few days of disposable time. They could arrange to fly to the airport at Fairbanks, be picked up by another participant, and have the most complete Alaskan experience their schedule would allow.
Some of us may be constrained, but to a lesser extent. If two weeks is doable, and you live east of Chicago, perhaps you could fly to Toronto or Montreal, and then to (for example) Edmonton (returning the same way). The flight takes out three or four travel days in each direction. Someone from our group would meet and greet you there, and the most exotic segment of road would lie ahead.
For those of us with the least constraints, three (or four, or more) consecutive weeks of travel is what we live for. Meeting our friends at Edmonton (or wherever), then sharing the ride and the expenses from there is logical, efficient, frugal, and fun. As of the summer of 2015, I am not yet that footloose, but by 2017 (or 2018?) I hope to be.
The logistics of this are somewhat daunting. Real commitments by really reliable people would be necessary. Advance planning is a must. As such, I would suggest a selection of date and location soon, for planning and scheduling purposes. It should surprise nobody that I would lobby for Fairbanks in mid-late June.
Over and out.
Alright well there's advance planning and there's advance planning. In two years a lot can change with regards to anyone's financial situation, vacation time availability, place of residence, relationship status, and/or familial obligations. Let's not go too crazy here. :P
Quote from: oscar on August 17, 2015, 09:25:02 PM
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Quote from: 1995hoo on August 17, 2015, 08:55:58 PM
If it weren't for the need to connect to the ferry, vdeane would have another option due to living in Upstate New York–go north to Montreal and take VIA Rail across Canada to Vancouver. I do not know whether it's a better deal than Amtrak or whether the ride is better.
....
I don't know whether VIA Rail is as bad as Amtrak in sticking to its schedules on its cross-country routes. But VIA Rail warns travelers not to reserve connecting travel for the same day as scheduled arrival.
That's also a very good rule of thumb on Amtrak outside the Northeast Corridor. When people have asked me for advice on taking the Auto Train to spring training, I always tell them never to plan on making it to a 1:00 PM game the same day as the train is due to arrive.
vdeane, in case you don't know, to clarify what we're getting at here, the main issue is that outside of the Northeast Corridor (the very busy DC-to-Boston routes), Amtrak doesn't own the train tracks and instead runs on tracks owned by the freight companies because the US government made the freight companies give Amtrak access to their tracks back when Amtrak was created (prior to that, federal law required passenger space to be made available on freight trains). The downside is that the railroad equivalent of air traffic control is, naturally, controlled by the freight companies and therefore gives the freight trains priority when there's heavy traffic. I'll never forget the time it took over two hours to cover the approximately 80 miles from Lorton to the Richmond area because we kept having to stop for freight traffic.
This is not the only reason for delays, of course, but it's a major one.
Quote from: 1995hoo(Amtrak fare doesn't include meals except on the Auto Train and in first class on the Acela)
Not entirely true. On the long-distance trains, if you get a sleeper (whether bedroom or roomette), meals are included.
Quote from: vdeaneLooks like carpooling is the more effective option. Traveling on my own, it would take ~ 8 days (80 hours) to get up. If the driving could be shared, that would allow for 16 hour days instead of 8, cutting the travel time to ~ 4 days each way... much more reasonable. It would also cut gas/hotel costs in half.
Even with two drivers, I think you're still underestimating the number of days involved given the sheer distance and the likelihood of lower speeds once you're beyond Edmonton (between construction zones, slow trucks, bad road conditions, paucity of services, etc etc).
Quote from: oscarAnd the likelihood of delays would require building in lots of time to avoid missing connections.
Not much different than the likelihood of delays going through major urban areas or the aforementioned construction zones on the Alaska Highway.
Quote from: froggie on August 18, 2015, 07:57:10 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo(Amtrak fare doesn't include meals except on the Auto Train and in first class on the Acela)
Not entirely true. On the long-distance trains, if you get a sleeper (whether bedroom or roomette), meals are included.
....
Thanks for that. The webpage I read a few years ago when I was looking into some of the long-distance trains appeared to say otherwise, but I may have misunderstood it or I may have not realized the writer was talking about coach class.
As a practical matter, if someone were to go cross-country on Amtrak, I would highly recommend getting at least the roomette so as to have some privacy and a flat bed for sleeping (I still don't sleep all that great on the train, but I sleep better than I did in coach class). If you're travelling with another person, I'd get the larger rooms for reasons of space (Ms1995hoo and I book the "Superliner Bedroom" on the Auto Train because we felt neither of us had enough legroom in the roomette and because of an utter lack of space to stand up when it was in sleeping configuration); also, depending on which equipment Amtrak uses for a given route, on some of their train cars the roomette has an in-room toilet with no privacy, so if you're riding with someone else, one of you has to sit right next to the toilet most of the time and when one of you wants to use it, the other person has to wait out in the hall or else just sit and watch. (Amtrak announced they would phase this out and redesign those Viewliner cars, but I don't know if they've completed the process yet.) Of course, a solo traveller might find this style of in-room toilet to be just fine. (Some of the larger bedrooms have in-room showers as well. I've never used the one in the "Superliner Bedroom" on the Auto Train, but I'm sure I would if I were riding cross-country.)
My experience with the sleepers is on the Empire Builder (Seattle to Chicago) and the Capital Limited (Chicago to DC). Val would be on the former if she chose to do the train option. On both of these routes, Amtrak uses bi-level sleepers (not sure the specific name of the car type). The roomettes do not have their own toilet, but there are 3 toilets and 1 shower on the lower level exclusively for roomette passenger use. The slightly larger bedrooms do have their own shower/toilet in a separate enclosure. I am not sure what type of gear Amtrak uses on the Lakeshore Limited (what Val would be using to get from Albany to Chicago).
As for scheduling, a few years ago VIA dropped their cross-country route to a 3-day-a-week route, whereas the Amtrak routes that would be involved are still daily trains. On my latest trip 2 weeks ago on the Empire Builder, we were about an hour-and-a-half late getting from Seattle to Minneapolis, which really isn't that bad given all the oil trains across North Dakota. We were actually on-time (or even pulling into stations early) from Seattle until we approached Williston. But this should improve in the next year or two as BNSF is actively double-tracking lengthy sections of track on both sides of Williston plus filling one of the single-track gaps in Minnesota.
I suppose the train discussion might be off-topic because I kind of think the odds of any of us actually taking the train cross-country are slim, but it can't hurt to mention the options in case anyone does seriously consider it.
Quote from: froggie on August 18, 2015, 08:24:52 AM
My experience with the sleepers is on the Empire Builder (Seattle to Chicago) and the Capital Limited (Chicago to DC). Val would be on the former if she chose to do the train option. On both of these routes, Amtrak uses bi-level sleepers (not sure the specific name of the car type). The roomettes do not have their own toilet, but there are 3 toilets and 1 shower on the lower level exclusively for roomette passenger use. The slightly larger bedrooms do have their own shower/toilet in a separate enclosure. I am not sure what type of gear Amtrak uses on the Lakeshore Limited (what Val would be using to get from Albany to Chicago).
....
Good info. If you were on the Superliner cars, those downstairs toilets and shower are also for the use of the people in the "Family Bedroom," which is located downstairs at one end of the car and, oddly, doesn't have an in-room toilet. (There is no "Family Bedroom" on the Viewliner, only the Superliner.) The "Accessible Bedroom" at the other end has the toilet but no shower. Only the "Superliner Bedroom" and "Viewliner Bedroom" have the full in-room toilet and shower. I looked into the "Family Bedroom" once because when I was pricing out a trip, that room was only $50 more than the regular "Bedroom." I didn't book it for two reasons: (1) I figured since we didn't need the space, I should leave it available for a family with small kids. (2) More importantly, when I actually went to the station to buy tickets, the price had gone up and I didn't want to pay the increased price. (Why did I go in person when you can book online? I used American Express points to get a $300 discount, and when you do that you are sent a paper certificate that must be redeemed in person at an Amtrak station.)
For those unfamiliar, the shower froggie mentions is a single shower in a lockable room (no "gang shower" like your high school gym's locker room). There's a sort of entrance area where you put your clothes and towel and stuff and then the shower itself is behind a separate curtain. The showerhead itself is the hand-held type you see in some hotel rooms. I normally hate those, but on a bumpy train ride it makes it a lot easier to rinse off.
The Lake Shore Limited uses the Viewliner. That's the one where the roomette has the peculiar in-room toilet Amtrak intends to phase out. Info from Amtrak is here.....notice in the sleeping configuration, the lower passenger's head is next to the toilet! (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241210576303) I have never ridden on the Viewliners and I don't know if those roomettes are more comfortable than the Superliner version. The page I linked says the room is two inches longer–on the Superliner, the roomette is 3'6" wide and 6'6" long, whereas on the Viewliner it's 3'6" by 6'8". This is why I described it as a good option for a solo traveller. I think it feels cramped for two adults, even just for a single overnight trip. The new Viewliner II cars will omit the in-room toilet in the roomette. Those cars were being built as of 2013; their entry into service was delayed and I believe it began this year, though I don't know on which routes.
It's hard to get good pictures of the sleeping options without a fisheye lens and I don't have one, but I have some pictures that at least give a bit of a sense for things. This first picture is half a Superliner roomette. I assume most folks are familiar with the size of a standard "broadsheet" newspaper, so that should help give a sense of the width. The other seat faces this one and the table pulls out from the wall to the left of that bottle of water. This is why, if you have two people, you have to sit at a bit of an angle so your feet aren't bumping each other when you want to stretch out. The second picture is the other half of the Superliner roomette, facing the seat seen in the first picture. The bag located to my right (viewer's left) with the hat sitting on top of it is on top of the upper step leading to the upper bunk. The lower step is next to my leg and my grey CPAP bag is sitting on it. When the upper bunk is lowered for sleeping, it's at about the level of the top of my head in this picture. In the roomette, the bunks run along the length of the car (your feet are normally located closer to the direction in which the train is going unless you request otherwise, which I have done because the electrical outlet for my CPAP was at the other end). Both these pictures were taken in Lorton waiting to depart for Florida.
I do not have a decent photo of the roomette in sleeping configuration. It's essentially two twin beds. The lower two seats slide down to form the lower bed and, as I said, the upper bunk lowers from the ceiling. The sleeping-car attendant does all this for you and makes the bed using provided mattress pads and linens. On a long-distance trip, you'd probably want to try to bring your own pillow because Amtrak's are not very supportive (all the more so if, like me, you use a memory-foam pillow!).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2F82fe81ae.jpg&hash=f857c1bd5242a61aaa00ffa3f6b351e8cf964fe4) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2F523e4a80.jpg&hash=a7d377181c257344be0709ed3bce7f80ca5476bf)
The Superliner Bedroom and the Viewliner Bedroom are again of a similar size but slightly different–on the Superliner it's 7'6" wide (corridor to side of train) and 6'6" long. On the Viewliner it's 6'8" wide and 7'1" long. There is a private in-room toilet and shower (both in the same sealed enclosure, and we have never smelled the toilet when the door is closed); in the first picture, it's behind the wall to the viewer's left, and in the second picture it's behind the wall to the viewer's right. In the third picture, it's to the viewer's right of that mirror next to me. (We have never used the in-room shower. I've showered downstairs, though. A bit awkward on a rocking train, but not awful.) The room has a couch-like seat (obvious in the second picture) that will comfortably seat two adults; there is also a third chair that folds up that faces the couch (in the third picture, I'm sitting in it). For me that third folding seat is very important because I invariably wake up before Ms1995hoo does and I want somewhere to sit that has some back support. Sitting in the folded-down bunk is uncomfortable. The table folds out from below the window. The upper bunk is the diagonal thing next to my head in the first picture. It folds down and a ladder attaches to provide access. The couch folds down into the lower bunk. There's a sink and mirror on the wall, most visible in the second picture, and there's a small coat closet opposite that. We much prefer this room to the roomette because it's more comfortable and allows us some room to move without bumping into each other constantly, and our legs aren't constantly in each other's way. You could make this work with two adults and a kid. I think it might feel confining for two adults and two kids. The upper bunk is basically the size of a twin bed. The lower one is a bit bigger, but we have not tried to share it. In this room, the bunks are crosswise to the direction of travel.
(The pictures where I'm wearing the red shirt are from this past June; the one where I'm wearing the black shirt is from December 2012. All three were taken in Sanford waiting for the train to depart for home.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FChristmas2012b150_zpsda4708fb.jpg&hash=61f03d157d5f09074b3937c52c6173d392891e10) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FFloridaJune2014897_zpsc32ba5bb.jpg&hash=939f86d1b0839ee3b3334b6e1bbe70910d554758) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FFloridaJune2014898_zps5858ec08.jpg&hash=27c80eb327493325ed25c1c3c400f44abac4997a)
BTW, in terms of getting a sense for the size of the space, I'm just over 6'0".
The other thing in the Superliner Roomette is that if you have two people in there such that both bunks are in use, if you need to get up during the night to use the toilet, you have barely one foot of room in which to stand to put on some clothes to go down the hall. It's awkward.
One of our relatives in Florida sells Pampered Chef stuff and she gave us these TRAVEL MUG WINE GLASSES. When I first saw these, my reaction was basically "WTF" because I obviously can't use one when I'm driving! But they've proven to be perfect in our room on the train because the ride can get quite bumpy at times and with these we don't have to worry about spilling the wine. (We have also used them at home when eating out on the deck because the lids prevent the bugs from getting at the wine....) You could, in theory, bring a small cooler of beer if you wanted.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FFloridaJune2014988_zpsab0c6a9d.jpg&hash=1f41b9b5b7d2f87ff2dc422a96f596b69bcccd8a)
Quote from: brianreynolds on August 17, 2015, 10:44:58 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 17, 2015, 09:09:35 PM
Looks like carpooling is the more effective option. Traveling on my own, it would take ~ 8 days (80 hours) to get up. If the driving could be shared, that would allow for 16 hour days instead of 8, cutting the travel time to ~ 4 days each way... much more reasonable. It would also cut gas/hotel costs in half.
Valerie, is your aversion to flying a deep-seated fear (like my mother-in-law) or a mere preference for road-warrior-type travel? I love to travel - via whatever - so flying is not a problem for me. Since I started keeping track of highways and counties, my affinity for flight has diminished dramatically. I used to fly once or twice a year, but it has been almost ten years since my last travel by air.
Our group of road-warriors is a diverse bunch. Some are tightly constrained by family or career considerations. Others are not. This diversity is not a problem, it is an opportunity. A few posts back, I suggested how we might leverage this, but I may not have been expansive enough.
To do Alaska to any meaningful extent (by road only) would require perhaps three consecutive weeks. Figure a week en route there, a similar time en route return, and a week exploring on the ground. Some (not many) of us have the freedom of movement to pull that off.
For illustration purposes only (I am not seizing control of the agenda - yet) let's assume a meet location of Fairbanks. The most heavily constrained among us might only be able to arrange a few days of disposable time. They could arrange to fly to the airport at Fairbanks, be picked up by another participant, and have the most complete Alaskan experience their schedule would allow.
Some of us may be constrained, but to a lesser extent. If two weeks is doable, and you live east of Chicago, perhaps you could fly to Toronto or Montreal, and then to (for example) Edmonton (returning the same way). The flight takes out three or four travel days in each direction. Someone from our group would meet and greet you there, and the most exotic segment of road would lie ahead.
For those of us with the least constraints, three (or four, or more) consecutive weeks of travel is what we live for. Meeting our friends at Edmonton (or wherever), then sharing the ride and the expenses from there is logical, efficient, frugal, and fun. As of the summer of 2015, I am not yet that footloose, but by 2017 (or 2018?) I hope to be.
The logistics of this are somewhat daunting. Real commitments by really reliable people would be necessary. Advance planning is a must. As such, I would suggest a selection of date and location soon, for planning and scheduling purposes. It should surprise nobody that I would lobby for Fairbanks in mid-late June.
Over and out.
A bit of preferring road travel (which feels more "real" for me, plus giving a greater feel for the places in between) plus a desire to not have to be humiliated by what the TSA calls "security" these days, being crammed in with strangers, and I don't trust the airlines to not lose my luggage or delay/cancel the plane.
Having enough vacation time that I could theoretically take three weeks off isn't the issue so much as the logistics of taking that much time as a block in our busy season as well as hotel/gas/food costs. Oh, and laundry too (only thought of that today; also car mileage or the cost of renting one).
I have a vague idea of how I'd drive over if making the route on my own:
-https://goo.gl/maps/lAr0L
-https://goo.gl/maps/qQJNN
That translates to 10-20 days driving, judging by the hours on Google (suggested feature for Google: set average daily drive time and have the map compute overnight stops).
Of course, all this is speculative and doesn't necessarily reflect what I could financially pull off at this stage in my life.
And some of us find the idea of seeing the northern lights more interesting than 24 hours of daylight.
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2015, 06:06:28 PM
And some of us find the idea of seeing the northern lights more interesting than 24 hours of daylight.
Yes. This. Right near the summer solstice is absolutely the worst time to travel to the arctic since you miss out on the best part.
Going back to1995hoo's post and off-topic, the only active Viewliner IIs are baggage cars. Those were built first, as the old Heritage Fleet cars date back to before Amtrak. IIRC, diners are next (also replacing heritage fleet), then sleepers. Amtrak might have some at Beech Grove for testing purposes, but they aren't in service.
Once everything is built, it's very possible that Amtrak will increase long-distance service.
BTW, looking at my post again, I thought it wasn't entirely clear and that I should clarify that all those pictures were taken on Superliners since I have never been on a Viewliner, but the rooms are pretty darn similar except for that in-room toilet and sink in the Viewliner roomette. That feature would be located to my right (viewer's left) in the picture where I'm wearing the striped shirt and holding the glass of wine, had I been on a Viewliner at the time.
Incidentally.....regarding which equipment is used where, the Viewliner must be used on long-distance routes serving New York Penn Station or Baltimore because the Superliner is too tall to fit through the tunnels near those two stations. This is why, for example, the Lake Shore Limited (which runs from either Boston or New York to Chicago) uses the Viewliner but the Capitol Limited (which runs from DC's Union Station to Chicago) uses the Superliner.
Had a chance to consult the latest Milepost, which I didn't have with me on the road when this subject first came up.
On aurora viewing, best times of the year are March-April and September-October, and the farther north (like Fairbanks and points north) the better. Aurora viewing might be possible in the summer, but in that season the farther south (like south of Alaska) and/or before or after the summer solstice, the better. For more details, including the latest aurora forecasts, check out http://www.gi.alaska.edu/AuroraForecast
On mosquitoes and other biting insects, the Milepost's advice is not to plan a summer vacation around them, because they'll be a problem all summer (with mosquitoes peaking in June), and continuing into the fall. Mosquitoes start coming out before winter snows have completely melted, so it sounds like May would not be early enough to avoid them.
Are skeeters in Alaska any more of a problem than they are anywhere else? There are quite a few around here, and they're whoppers. And I don't live close to open water, or even a full-time flowing stream.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2015, 11:11:30 PM
Are skeeters in Alaska any more of a problem than they are anywhere else? There are quite a few around here, and they're whoppers. And I don't live close to open water, or even a full-time flowing stream.
In Alaska, you have postcards and Post-It notepads joking about mosquitoes, many dubbing the mosquito "Alaska's state bird". You also have a giant mosquito statue (http://www.alaskaroads.com/Delta-Jct-mosquito-statue_DSC3884.jpg) outside the Delta Junction visitor center at the end of the Alaska Highway. I don't think you have any of that in Kentucky.
Maybe skeeters really like you! But what they really love are small pools of stagnant water. Lots of those pools form all over the state as the snow melts, which help make the skeeters both so numerous and so hard to avoid.
Quote from: oscar on October 03, 2015, 04:31:51 PM
In Alaska, you have postcards and Post-It notepads joking about mosquitoes, many dubbing the mosquito "Alaska's state bird".
These are common in other states as well, including those where I don't think the mosquitoes are half as bad as in my home state of NY (e.g., Minnesota).
First I've heard someone claiming that NY has worse mosquitoes than Minnesota. Given extensive experience in both states, I'd say it's the other way around. Geologically and entomologically, Minnesota has far more mosquito breeding grounds (ponds/wetlands/ditches) than New York.
Quote from: froggie on October 06, 2015, 06:34:42 PM
First I've heard someone claiming that NY has worse mosquitoes than Minnesota. Given extensive experience in both states, I'd say it's the other way around. Geologically and entomologically, Minnesota has far more mosquito breeding grounds (ponds/wetlands/ditches) than New York.
I've been to Minnesota only once and I experienced a denser concentration of mosquitoes there than I've ever experienced anywhere in New York so... yeah.
Minnesota - 10,000 lakes and a 10 million mosquitos
Well, fine. If Minnesota wants to win the "We're a More Miserable Place to Live" contest, New York will gladly let it do so.
Quote from: SSOWorld on October 06, 2015, 08:18:43 PM
Minnesota - 10,000 lakes and a 10 million mosquitos
Only "million"? That's less than two mosquitoes per Minnesotan.
I thought I would resurrect this discussion. Is there still any interest in an Alaska road meet for either 2017 or 2018? I definitely want to take a road trip to Alaska and back. It seems logical that a trip like that for me would be lined up somehow with a road meet, but it doesn't have to be. I just wondered whether folks are still thinking about this. I still am! :)
Quote from: oscar on October 03, 2015, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2015, 11:11:30 PM
Are skeeters in Alaska any more of a problem than they are anywhere else? There are quite a few around here, and they're whoppers. And I don't live close to open water, or even a full-time flowing stream.
In Alaska, you have postcards and Post-It notepads joking about mosquitoes, many dubbing the mosquito "Alaska's state bird". You also have a giant mosquito statue (http://www.alaskaroads.com/Delta-Jct-mosquito-statue_DSC3884.jpg) outside the Delta Junction visitor center at the end of the Alaska Highway. I don't think you have any of that in Kentucky.
Sounds like the state bird of the great State of Superior (da UP) in that regard.
Not sure for Steph and I, next year we plan on going back out west to the matchbox toy convention held in Albuquerque, NM every year and plan to get back up to the northwest, maybe see Yellowstone NP. will see how things go
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on July 07, 2016, 01:18:07 PM
I thought I would resurrect this discussion. Is there still any interest in an Alaska road meet for either 2017 or 2018? I definitely want to take a road trip to Alaska and back. It seems logical that a trip like that for me would be lined up somehow with a road meet, but it doesn't have to be. I just wondered whether folks are still thinking about this. I still am! :)
I still am.
it would have to be an air hop for me to be in. $$$ are limited.
Depending on when it falls, I'd consider it. If it was early August, I could easily swing it. I'd probably fly most of the way, but that's life when funds and time are limited.
If this is in four years, I'll have to renew my passport (it's been expired for a couple years now) and drive there. I won't have money to fly.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 07, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
If this is in four years, I'll have to renew my passport (it's been expired for a couple years now) and drive there. I won't have money to fly.
Driving is pretty expensive, unless you do it with a group to split expenses and/or do a lot of camping to cut down on overnight lodging costs. Flying is probably cheaper.
The plan was to drive the Alaska Highway to Fairbanks and have the meet there, including an excursion up to Prudhoe Bay and back. If we go around July, the road should be in good condition and we should have enough daylight to make it all the way up in one shot (figure 35 mph average, some stretches can be faster than others). So 3 days in Alaska, figure 6 days to get there and 6 days back, equals a nice 2-week trip. For those with more limited funds, just fly up to Fairbanks for the meet itself. Still to be determined is the starting point for the official drive. I'd probably want to save a few days by flying out to a Vancouver, Edmonton, etc., and spend the extra time exploring that area more.
Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2016, 12:04:08 AM
The plan was to drive the Alaska Highway to Fairbanks and have the meet there, including an excursion up to Prudhoe Bay and back. If we go around July, the road should be in good condition and we should have enough daylight to make it all the way up in one shot (figure 35 mph average, some stretches can be faster than others). So 3 days in Alaska, figure 6 days to get there and 6 days back, equals a nice 2-week trip. For those with more limited funds, just fly up to Fairbanks for the meet itself. Still to be determined is the starting point for the official drive. I'd probably want to save a few days by flying out to a Vancouver, Edmonton, etc., and spend the extra time exploring that area more.
Up the Dalton? Man, that would be one hell of a long meet, but I'd be down if I can swing it. Google says 15+ hours each way from Fairbanks (if we're lucky).
Quote from: cl94 on July 08, 2016, 12:17:01 AM
Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2016, 12:04:08 AM
The plan was to drive the Alaska Highway to Fairbanks and have the meet there, including an excursion up to Prudhoe Bay and back. If we go around July, the road should be in good condition and we should have enough daylight to make it all the way up in one shot (figure 35 mph average, some stretches can be faster than others). So 3 days in Alaska, figure 6 days to get there and 6 days back, equals a nice 2-week trip. For those with more limited funds, just fly up to Fairbanks for the meet itself. Still to be determined is the starting point for the official drive. I'd probably want to save a few days by flying out to a Vancouver, Edmonton, etc., and spend the extra time exploring that area more.
Up the Dalton? Man, that would be one hell of a long meet, but I'd be down if I can swing it. Google says 15+ hours each way from Fairbanks (if we're lucky).
And that's without encountering this guy:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fscoobydoo%2Fimages%2F5%2F52%2FScooby_and_the_Snow_Ghost.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20131006075501&hash=549562ac5c65f494831be2cfdd16089fc4c25c3f)
I could probably do a carpool, but I don't see doing the hotel costs and additional time (I would only do 8 hours of drive time if I didn't have someone to share that task) for driving up on my own.
And no, I don't fly.
In any case, sounds like fun... trip of a lifetime, really.
Quote from: jpi on July 07, 2016, 03:14:30 PM
Not sure for Steph and I, next year we plan on going back out west to the matchbox toy convention held in Albuquerque, NM every year and plan to get back up to the northwest, maybe see Yellowstone NP. will see how things go
Northwest on the way to/from Alaska? ;)
I'd be interested but my schedule is pretty constrained. My teen daughter isn't quite old enough to leave her alone for a week at a time and we're committed to a trip for next summer's eclipse of the sun already.
Quote from: oscar on July 07, 2016, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 07, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
If this is in four years, I'll have to renew my passport (it's been expired for a couple years now) and drive there. I won't have money to fly.
Driving is pretty expensive, unless you do it with a group to split expenses and/or do a lot of camping to cut down on overnight lodging costs. Flying is probably cheaper.
Also, would your parents even allow you to take this BIG of a road trip by yourself??? I would love to do this, I have enough vacation time to make it work but I still doubt, but not completely ruling it out.
Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2016, 12:04:08 AM
The plan was to drive the Alaska Highway to Fairbanks and have the meet there, including an excursion up to Prudhoe Bay and back. If we go around July, the road should be in good condition and we should have enough daylight to make it all the way up in one shot (figure 35 mph average, some stretches can be faster than others). So 3 days in Alaska, figure 6 days to get there and 6 days back, equals a nice 2-week trip. For those with more limited funds, just fly up to Fairbanks for the meet itself. Still to be determined is the starting point for the official drive. I'd probably want to save a few days by flying out to a Vancouver, Edmonton, etc., and spend the extra time exploring that area more.
Are you thinking 2017 or 2018?
Quote from: vdeane on July 08, 2016, 12:59:30 PM
I could probably do a carpool, but I don't see doing the hotel costs and additional time (I would only do 8 hours of drive time if I didn't have someone to share that task) for driving up on my own.
And no, I don't fly.
In any case, sounds like fun... trip of a lifetime, really.
My thought would be driving (with hopefully three other people) from Michigan to Alaska and back... taking a different route each way. I already considered where I might want to stay each night:
First night - Twin Cities (MN) area
Second night - Winnipeg
Third night - Calgary or Edmonton
Fourth night - Fort Nelson BC
Fifth night - Whitehorse YT
Sixth night - maybe Anchorage
And then drive up to Fairbanks on seventh day maybe.
Driving back I'd probably want to spend more time in the States... especially Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota. Of course, there would have to be some compromises to make everyone happy if I had three people with me (possibly taking turns driving, experimenting with different route options, etc.). :)
Quote from: jpi on July 08, 2016, 11:35:47 PM
Quote from: oscar on July 07, 2016, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 07, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
If this is in four years, I'll have to renew my passport (it's been expired for a couple years now) and drive there. I won't have money to fly.
Driving is pretty expensive, unless you do it with a group to split expenses and/or do a lot of camping to cut down on overnight lodging costs. Flying is probably cheaper.
Also, would your parents even allow you to take this BIG of a road trip by yourself???
Canada Border Services might also not be crazy about letting an unaccompanied minor cross their country, especially through the less-developed areas of northern Canada (not as hard as it used to be, but not a piece of cake either).
Quote from: jpi on July 08, 2016, 11:35:47 PM
Quote from: oscar on July 07, 2016, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 07, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
If this is in four years, I'll have to renew my passport (it's been expired for a couple years now) and drive there. I won't have money to fly.
Driving is pretty expensive, unless you do it with a group to split expenses and/or do a lot of camping to cut down on overnight lodging costs. Flying is probably cheaper.
Also, would your parents even allow you to take this BIG of a road trip by yourself??? I would love to do this, I have enough vacation time to make it work but I still doubt, but not completely ruling it out.
Well, I have to prove myself I can take care of myself for two weeks, then maybe my parents would say yes. Besides, this is a good thing to get me into long distance driving like most of the other members of the forum do.
If your passport has been expired for a couple of years, I believe you have to re-apply, rather than renew.
Cross-border travel by a minor who isn't accompanied by both parents requires a notarized statement from the one who isn't accompanying the minor, even if the other parent is present at the border, this in response to the various stories of one parent absconding with a child. I have no idea how border control personnel would react to an unaccompanied minor, though I would not be surprised to see them refuse said person entry.
Edited to add: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/minors.asp
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on July 09, 2016, 12:31:30 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 08, 2016, 12:59:30 PM
I could probably do a carpool, but I don't see doing the hotel costs and additional time (I would only do 8 hours of drive time if I didn't have someone to share that task) for driving up on my own.
And no, I don't fly.
In any case, sounds like fun... trip of a lifetime, really.
My thought would be driving (with hopefully three other people) from Michigan to Alaska and back... taking a different route each way. I already considered where I might want to stay each night:
First night - Twin Cities (MN) area
Second night - Winnipeg
Third night - Calgary or Edmonton
Fourth night - Fort Nelson BC
Fifth night - Whitehorse YT
Sixth night - maybe Anchorage
And then drive up to Fairbanks on seventh day maybe.
Driving back I'd probably want to spend more time in the States... especially Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota. Of course, there would have to be some compromises to make everyone happy if I had three people with me (possibly taking turns driving, experimenting with different route options, etc.). :)
That was similar to my thoughts... Canada one way, US the other, probably clinch Alaska's interstates while there. I do have ambitions of clinching I-90 and the TCH, but I always envisioned them as separate trips, not part of the trip to/from Alaska.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 09, 2016, 09:40:46 AM
Quote from: jpi on July 08, 2016, 11:35:47 PM
Quote from: oscar on July 07, 2016, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 07, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
If this is in four years, I'll have to renew my passport (it's been expired for a couple years now) and drive there. I won't have money to fly.
Driving is pretty expensive, unless you do it with a group to split expenses and/or do a lot of camping to cut down on overnight lodging costs. Flying is probably cheaper.
Also, would your parents even allow you to take this BIG of a road trip by yourself??? I would love to do this, I have enough vacation time to make it work but I still doubt, but not completely ruling it out.
Well, I have to prove myself I can take care of myself for two weeks, then maybe my parents would say yes. Besides, this is a good thing to get me into long distance driving like most of the other members of the forum do.
Long distance driving is something I'd say that one would want to build up over time, rather than take a two week trip from the get-go.
Also: it's gonna be a while before you get going on anything really long even after you turn 16. It takes time to get a full licence, and many hotels have minimum check-in ages.
https://www.dot.state.pa.us/Public/DVSPubsForms/BDL/BDL%20Fact%20Sheets/fs-wy.pdf
If I were to do this, I'd probably just fly into Anchorage and drive from there. Driving to Fairbanks and then on to Prudhoe Bay would be more than enough for me. I like driving but not sure how I would do with endless days of it for more than a week.
I remember from something in the past that Canada will only let a minor in without their parents if they are supervised by a person with a notarized consent letter signed by all who have custody of the child and there is an organized trip by an established organization (school, church, or similar). Most other countries are similar. Hell, I remember how much of a PITA it was for my dad to take a couple of my siblings to Canada without my mom.
If I went, I'd fly to Anchorage and drive as well. Actually a one-stop flight from Boston on JetBlue. For people doing the driving on the Dalton, we'd have to make sure we get rentals that allow travel on the Dalton, as several don't allow it.
Yes, notarized consent from all parents or guardians who are not present at the border, the consent form to include an itinerary with contacts along the way.
Quote from: kkt on July 09, 2016, 05:59:00 PM
Yes, notarized consent from all parents or guardians who are not present at the border, the consent form to include an itinerary with contacts along the way.
That should be easy to clear. Just simply write on a post it that my parents allow me to travel across Canada.
See the link I posted further up the thread: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/minors.asp
A Post-It Note won't do the job.
How about a text message? We're in the electronic age now. Surely a text message would be perfectly acceptable. Or maybe a tweet. Keeps the permission short and to the point.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 09, 2016, 06:06:41 PM
See the link I posted further up the thread: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/minors.asp
A Post-It Note won't do the job.
Oof. Nah, no relatives live in Canada for me. However, my backup plan is to drive across the U.S. to Washington, take the carferry there to Juneau, Alaska, and drive to Fairbanks. I could also ask my brother/sister to come with me and they can say that they'll take care of me while in Canada.
I'm definitely interested - I want to do it in the next year or two while my Jeep Liberty is still in good enough shape to make the trip. I'd certainly drive up. I don't have a big trip figured out for next year or 2018 yet - so if this can get firmed up before I come up with something else (likely in the next six months), I can start to make those arrangements.
I'd likely make it a week and a half trip - leaving Tuesday night to arrive at a roadmeet on Saturday morning, assume the meet goes Saturday/Sunday, then spend a few days in Alaska before heading back down on Thursday or so.
It's worth noting that, as has been mentioned by one person further up the thread, there is a total solar eclipse in August 2017. It's on a Monday, I believe (August 21). I suspect many of us here may be interested in seeing that even though it isn't road-related. Just worth bearing in mind in terms of thinking about travel schedules for next year.
Hmm, that makes me think that weekend would be the ideal one if someone along the eclipse route (St. Louis or Kansas City are two possibilities) wanted to host a meet, though the host might need to host a bunch of people at home if hotels fill up as early as they're likely to do....
If it would be next year then I am out since I am planning on going out west next year. Also Alex, (Noel) you are one ambitious kid :sombrero:
I'm already logicking Eclipse viewing and anyone attempting to host a road meet that weekend is unlikely to get me in attendance simply because it complicates matters. That excursion will use as little vacation time as I can manage to preserve it for Alaska.
That said, my previous desire to time Alaska for aurora viewing becomes irrelevant if I see them when I go to Iceland in a few months. If so, midnight sun becomes preferred since I won't have that this year.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 09, 2016, 06:28:32 PM
Oof. Nah, no relatives live in Canada for me. However, my backup plan is to drive across the U.S. to Washington, take the carferry there to Juneau, Alaska, and drive to Fairbanks. I could also ask my brother/sister to come with me and they can say that they'll take care of me while in Canada.
No point in getting off in Juneau. You'd need to catch another ferry, and the northbound ferries out of Juneau to Haines or Skagway would still require you cross through Canada to get to Fairbanks. I think you have in mind the multi-day ferry ride from Washington state to Whittier (Anchorage's ferry port), which bypasses Canada except a customs-free passage through Canadian waters. As with all ferries to Alaska from Washington state in the high season, book really early. The day AMHS starts taking reservations for those sailings would not be too soon.
Of course, you will have to deal with the Alaska Marine Highway System's policies on unaccompanied minors (http://www.dot.state.ak.us/amhs/policies.shtml), which are less restrictive than Canada's entry requirements.
Quote from: kkt on July 08, 2016, 03:35:39 PM
I'd be interested but my schedule is pretty constrained. My teen daughter isn't quite old enough to leave her alone for a week at a time and we're committed to a trip for next summer's eclipse of the sun already.
Yes - Something to consider when planning.
Quote from: oscar on July 09, 2016, 11:38:58 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 09, 2016, 06:28:32 PM
Oof. Nah, no relatives live in Canada for me. However, my backup plan is to drive across the U.S. to Washington, take the carferry there to Juneau, Alaska, and drive to Fairbanks. I could also ask my brother/sister to come with me and they can say that they'll take care of me while in Canada.
No point in getting off in Juneau. You'd need to catch another ferry, and the northbound ferries out of Juneau to Haines or Skagway would still require you cross through Canada to get to Fairbanks. I think you have in mind the multi-day ferry ride from Washington state to Whittier (Anchorage's ferry port), which bypasses Canada except a customs-free passage through Canadian waters. As with all ferries to Alaska from Washington state in the high season, book really early. The day AMHS starts taking reservations for those sailings would not be too soon.
Of course, you will have to deal with the Alaska Marine Highway System's policies on unaccompanied minors (http://www.dot.state.ak.us/amhs/policies.shtml), which are less restrictive than Canada's entry requirements.
Hmm, it depends on the date of the roadmeet. It only says that I have to be with someone who's 19+ years or older, if I'm 12-15. If this is in at least 2020, not only can I drive there, I can also be alone on the ferry.
Really I want to do this because my parents haven't done much long distance driving. We've only done two trips that are more than 300 miles.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 09, 2016, 06:14:26 PM
How about a text message? We're in the electronic age now. Surely a text message would be perfectly acceptable. Or maybe a tweet. Keeps the permission short and to the point.
Hard to notarize or document the authenticity of a text message.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 09, 2016, 06:06:41 PM
See the link I posted further up the thread: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/minors.asp
A Post-It Note won't do the job.
Yeah, the notary seal would take up the whole thing. :-D
Quote from: cl94 on July 09, 2016, 04:29:00 PM
I remember from something in the past that Canada will only let a minor in without their parents if they are supervised by a person with a notarized consent letter signed by all who have custody of the child and there is an organized trip by an established organization (school, church, or similar).
For what it's worth, I once went to Canada with a cousin of mine who at the time was 17. We had signed and sealed letters from her parents granting permission for her to travel to Canada with me, but neither CBSA nor CBP asked to see them. Of course, your mileage may vary. The link above does state that you should have these documents simply because while customs may not ask to see them, if they do you had better have them or you're going to be denied entry.
All that said, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I would not want to be involved in supervising a minor whose parents I have never met and are thousands of miles away.
Noel, it's great that you have these travel ambitions but if your parents aren't willing/able to go with you you will likely have to wait until you are an adult to do such things. Alaska will still be there after you turn 18, so there's no need to rush now.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 10, 2016, 03:48:26 PM
For what it's worth, I once went to Canada with a cousin of mine who at the time was 17. We had signed and sealed letters from her parents granting permission for her to travel to Canada with me, but neither CBSA nor CBP asked to see them. Of course, your mileage may vary. The link above does state that you should have these documents simply because while customs may not ask to see them, if they do you had better have them or you're going to be denied entry.
Many countries have gotten stricter in the last 5-10 years. Kidnapping by the noncustodial parent and human trafficing have gotten to be greater isseus.
Quote
All that said, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I would not want to be involved in supervising a minor whose parents I have never met and are thousands of miles away.
No kidding, I don't even like to drive my daughter's friends around. They tend to think I'm nuts by insisting I talk to a parent first, but if they needed to go to the ER, how am I going to know who to call?
Quote
Noel, it's great that you have these travel ambitions but if your parents aren't willing/able to go with you you will likely have to wait until you are an adult to do such things. Alaska will still be there after you turn 18, so there's no need to rush now.
Yes, well, if you have a close relationship with an adult friend or relative other than your parents, who wanted to take you on a road trip, maybe your parents would allow it. I dunno.
Quote from: kkt on July 10, 2016, 09:50:14 PM
No kidding, I don't even like to drive my daughter's friends around. They tend to think I'm nuts by insisting I talk to a parent first, but if they needed to go to the ER, how am I going to know who to call?
Clearly in such a circumstance you should call Ghostbusters.
There is no sunset in Fairbanks within 1 month of the summer solstice. I view that as a positive. YMMV?
Been in the polar regions when it was light all night? It bothered me more than I expected. Probably easier if you're in a house or hotel with blackout curtains, instead of camping, but still. YMMV.
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 10, 2016, 06:35:55 AM
Quote from: kkt on July 08, 2016, 03:35:39 PM
I'd be interested but my schedule is pretty constrained. My teen daughter isn't quite old enough to leave her alone for a week at a time and we're committed to a trip for next summer's eclipse of the sun already.
Yes - Something to consider when planning.
As mentioned on Facebook, I won't be attending any 2016 meets. Many higher priorities came up both expectedly and - more so unexpectedly regarding local friends and especially family that resulted in me re-thinking my intents. There is no guarantee for 2017 either, if an Alaska meet happens next year - I won't be there. The eclipse is something I want to see since it's a rare event. I will attend meets nearby me (whether it be a meet that Brandon or Kim organizes or if the chance that I organize one myself. I tend to be taking the opposing years of both) I am planning a road trip toward Arizona for Christmas (My dad lives there) and the money must go that way.
Would be interested in a meet like this but no idea if finances and ability to get time off work would allow.
Quote from: tckma on October 10, 2016, 01:32:54 PM
Would be interested in a meet like this but no idea if finances and ability to get time off work would allow.
Same here, again this is a bucket list road trip for my wife and I but I am aiming for sometime 2020 or beyond that. Next year I am aiming for my 5th road trip to the southwest\ west so we shall see.
I'd like to... I wonder how well it would work to drive northwards, after driving as far north the pipeline road as possible and a side trip or two, then put the car on a freight ship back to Washington while I fly. Much as I'd like to take the Alaska Ferry, the chance of being able to take long enough to drive one way and explore in AK for a while and take the ferry back seems small.
Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2016, 12:04:08 AM
The plan was to drive the Alaska Highway to Fairbanks and have the meet there, including an excursion up to Prudhoe Bay and back. If we go around July, the road should be in good condition and we should have enough daylight to make it all the way up in one shot (figure 35 mph average, some stretches can be faster than others). So 3 days in Alaska, figure 6 days to get there and 6 days back, equals a nice 2-week trip. For those with more limited funds, just fly up to Fairbanks for the meet itself. Still to be determined is the starting point for the official drive. I'd probably want to save a few days by flying out to a Vancouver, Edmonton, etc., and spend the extra time exploring that area more.
Reminder of potential itinerary.
I'm not counting this out for now [/revolving door decision]. It depends on how much more enthusiastic I am vs doing any work on the house as both cost a lot of money. If I go, I'll likely fly to Anchorage or Fairbanks myself (as I had said this is a definite air-hop). Anchorage affords a drive up the Parks and back on the Alaska/Glenn. Anchorage is about 500-600 and includes a stopover in SEA (or non-stop if from O'Hare), a bit more to Fairbanks - and you have to stop in Anchorage anyway.
Quote from: kkt on October 10, 2016, 04:53:40 PM
I'd like to... I wonder how well it would work to drive northwards, after driving as far north the pipeline road as possible and a side trip or two, then put the car on a freight ship back to Washington while I fly.
The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Dalton Highway is one of the worst segments, which is why it's slated for a new-alignment replacement in a few years.
A few of us who attended the Birmingham AL meet this past weekend were talking tentatively about how we could feasibly drive from, say, the Midwest to Alaska and back. Brian Reynolds, Valerie Deane, Brandon Gorte, and I were pondering this. For me I shouldn't have any trouble getting two weeks off from work, but I have to make sure my significant other is truly okay with the idea of me being gone for this long. I think he will be okay... especially if he plans on taking a trip to Europe with a friend around the same time frame.
Driving to Alaska and back is something I want to do once in my lifetime. I hope this ends up being possible for me.
Would there be a possibility of driving to somewhere on the west coast, taking some form of water transportation to Alaska, and then renting a car once there?
Quote from: hbelkins on October 10, 2016, 10:19:01 PM
Would there be a possibility of driving to somewhere on the west coast, taking some form of water transportation to Alaska, and then renting a car once there?
That is definitely possible, but would be significantly more expensive and quite a bit slower than either driving or flying. It's a six day, $970 sailing from Seattle to Homer.
Quote from: corco on October 10, 2016, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 10, 2016, 10:19:01 PM
Would there be a possibility of driving to somewhere on the west coast, taking some form of water transportation to Alaska, and then renting a car once there?
That is definitely possible, but would be significantly more expensive and quite a bit slower than either driving or flying.
Well, when you don't fly and you don't really want to deal with the hassles of border crossing -- especially re-entry into your own home country -- you have to look at other options.
Although Alaska isn't really that feasible for me anyway.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 10, 2016, 10:19:01 PM
Would there be a possibility of driving to somewhere on the west coast, taking some form of water transportation to Alaska, and then renting a car once there?
The option is there, you should consider the Alaska Marine Highway System and go to Whittier - take your car with you on to the ferry - Whittier to Anchorage will get through the Alton Anderson Tunnel (The one-lane shared with railroad tunnel that's a roadgeek's dream) - That will take you through to Anchorage after which you can take the Parks hwy (by Denali) to Fairbanks... otherwise go to Valdez and drive up the Richardson and Glenn to the Alaska highway to Fairbanks to meet the crowd.
http://www.dot.state.ak.us/amhs/routes.shtml
Canada is avoided as well.
I've set up a date poll - https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18996 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18996). Thinking about day of week - if people start traveling Friday or Saturday and averaging about 4 days to get up there, maybe the meet is on Tuesday or Wednesday, followed by Dalton Highway drive, followed by the return.
Quote from: SSOWorld on October 10, 2016, 10:29:07 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 10, 2016, 10:19:01 PM
Would there be a possibility of driving to somewhere on the west coast, taking some form of water transportation to Alaska, and then renting a car once there?
The option is there, you should consider the Alaska Marine Highway System and go to Whittier - take your car with you on to the ferry - Whittier to Anchorage will get through the Alton Anderson Tunnel (The one-lane shared with railroad tunnel that's a roadgeek's dream) - That will take you through to Anchorage after which you can take the Parks hwy (by Denali) to Fairbanks... otherwise go to Valdez and drive up the Richardson and Glenn to the Alaska highway to Fairbanks to meet the crowd.
If you don't take your own car on the ferry, you might need to take a train to Anchorage to rent a car there, since there may be no car rental places in Whittier. Car rental places in Valdez are more likely, but should not be nailed down before setting ferry reservations.
In addition to snagging the Anderson tunnel (by train), you may also have a chance to snag the hard-to-reach Yakutat borough, which has no road access and limited ferry access (most visitors arrive and leave via Alaska Airlines jets). However, Yakutat may be a "flag stop", skipped unless someone is getting on or off the ferry there.
Also, many or all of the ferries between Bellingham WA and Whittier will skip Petersburg and Wrangell boroughs, since they can't safely traverse the Wrangell Narrows between Petersburg and Wrangell except at high tide. The M/V Kennicott, which I took from Ketchikan to Juneau this May (and which started its journey in Bellingham), skipped Wrangell and Petersburg, while pn the return trip I took the smaller M/V Matanuska to Petersburg on the return from Juneau, and later that week took it from Petersburg to Prince Rupert BC via the Narrows, with stops in Wrangell and Ketchikan.
I've been doing some research ever since I spoke with Val and AJ Saturday evening. There are a few different ways to do this.
1. We take passenger cars/trucks and carpool to Fairbanks from here (being as I'm the westernmost of the group, here would be Joliet, IL). The advantages are that we'd have our own vehicles with minimal issues crossing the border with them. The disadvantages are that we'd have to have hotel rooms, restaurants, and rest areas.
2. We fly to Anchorage from O'Hare and drive up from there. I checked out the rates, and it appears to be about $350/per person roundtrip, nonstop. Advantage is speed. Disadvantages are that the whole point of of driving to Alaska are negated.
3. We rent a small (Class B or Class C) RV. The disadvantages could be cost and fuel (a Class C gets 8-10 mpg, a Class B gets 15-20 mpg). The advantages are that we could bring food and have our own toilet on board. We could also choose to drive through the night as well, cutting the duration from 5 days to 3 days, and getting through some less interesting stretches of road faster. We would also not need a hotel room in Alaska. However, we might need a different vehicle for the Dalton Highway (a Class B could handle it better than a Class C).
Based on what I've seen, I'm leaning toward option 3.
My plan is to drive up to Alaska solo from Boise in my vehicle, an obsessively maintained low mileage 2002 Jeep Liberty with 4WD and new tires that can easily handle the Dalton.
So I'll have extra capacity to haul folks who either fly up or take an unsuitable vehicle for the Dalton to Fairbanks.
Quote from: oscar on October 11, 2016, 12:48:36 AM
In addition to snagging the Anderson tunnel (by train), you may also have a chance to snag the hard-to-reach Yakutat borough, which has no road access and limited ferry access (most visitors arrive and leave via Alaska Airlines jets). However, Yakutat may be a "flag stop", skipped unless someone is getting on or off the ferry there.
Right, but can you disembark and get back on the ferry at a single stop to say that you actually had your feet on the ground in the borough?
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2016, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: oscar on October 11, 2016, 12:48:36 AM
In addition to snagging the Anderson tunnel (by train), you may also have a chance to snag the hard-to-reach Yakutat borough, which has no road access and limited ferry access (most visitors arrive and leave via Alaska Airlines jets). However, Yakutat may be a "flag stop", skipped unless someone is getting on or off the ferry there.
Right, but can you disembark and get back on the ferry at a single stop to say that you actually had your feet on the ground in the borough?
Probably not a problem, if the stop is long enough, and is not skipped entirely (as might be an issue with Yakutat). Of course, the stop might be in the middle of the night. But BC Ferries would not let me do that at a really super-brief stop in Bella Coola BC, so for its regional district (difficult but not impossible to drive to) I made do with sailing through its waters.
Alaska Airlines doesn't like passengers leaving its jets just to set foot on the tarmac, which has been an issue for some county-counters in Yakutat (having heard of that, I went with an overnight stay there in 2009, before continuing on to Juneau). The smaller airlines using small planes to serve the blessedly TSA-free small airports of western Alaska seem to be more relaxed about that. But you might have to ask other passengers to exit too so you can leave the plane then get back on.
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2016, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: oscar on October 11, 2016, 12:48:36 AM
In addition to snagging the Anderson tunnel (by train), you may also have a chance to snag the hard-to-reach Yakutat borough, which has no road access and limited ferry access (most visitors arrive and leave via Alaska Airlines jets). However, Yakutat may be a "flag stop", skipped unless someone is getting on or off the ferry there.
Right, but can you disembark and get back on the ferry at a single stop to say that you actually had your feet on the ground in the borough?
I view being on a boat in the water the same a car on the road. As long as you're surrounded by the county (not in the ocean, at least an inlet if not a river), I count boat clinches.
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 08:29:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2016, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: oscar on October 11, 2016, 12:48:36 AM
In addition to snagging the Anderson tunnel (by train), you may also have a chance to snag the hard-to-reach Yakutat borough, which has no road access and limited ferry access (most visitors arrive and leave via Alaska Airlines jets). However, Yakutat may be a "flag stop", skipped unless someone is getting on or off the ferry there.
Right, but can you disembark and get back on the ferry at a single stop to say that you actually had your feet on the ground in the borough?
I view being on a boat in the water the same a car on the road. As long as you're surrounded by the county (not in the ocean, at least an inlet if not a river), I count boat clinches.
In that regard, are we counting train clinches as well? Still ground-based transportation.
Quote from: cl94 on October 15, 2016, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 08:29:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2016, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: oscar on October 11, 2016, 12:48:36 AM
In addition to snagging the Anderson tunnel (by train), you may also have a chance to snag the hard-to-reach Yakutat borough, which has no road access and limited ferry access (most visitors arrive and leave via Alaska Airlines jets). However, Yakutat may be a "flag stop", skipped unless someone is getting on or off the ferry there.
Right, but can you disembark and get back on the ferry at a single stop to say that you actually had your feet on the ground in the borough?
I view being on a boat in the water the same a car on the road. As long as you're surrounded by the county (not in the ocean, at least an inlet if not a river), I count boat clinches.
In that regard, are we counting train clinches as well? Still ground-based transportation.
FWIW (not all county-counters will necessarily agree), I would count train clinches. Indeed, when I completed the U.S. counties in 2010, there were several counties in western Kansas and maybe elsewhere which I had covered only by train (later, I drove through most or all of those counties).
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Can't tell you how many county lines I've crossed without seeing a sign.
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 11:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Can't tell you how many county lines I've crossed without seeing a sign.
*cough* NYSTA *cough*
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 11:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Can't tell you how many county lines I've crossed without seeing a sign.
To me, it's like flying over counties -- is there a real means of making sure you actually are in whichever county when you're on a long boat trip, especially when the boat may be travelling parallel to such?
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2016, 12:30:36 AM
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 11:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Can't tell you how many county lines I've crossed without seeing a sign.
To me, it's like flying over counties -- is there a real means of making sure you actually are in whichever county when you're on a long boat trip, especially when the boat may be travelling parallel to such?
Use a GPS.
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2016, 12:30:36 AM
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 11:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Can't tell you how many county lines I've crossed without seeing a sign.
To me, it's like flying over counties -- is there a real means of making sure you actually are in whichever county when you're on a long boat trip, especially when the boat may be travelling parallel to such?
I count the Alaska counties where my cruise ship passed between island and mainland. Surrounded by land within the county, counts as being in the county to me. I do not count the counties where there was open ocean on my left, even though I was close enough to shore to technically be in the county. That's one way to know. I would never count flying over, because I was never in contact with the Earth.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2016, 12:30:36 AM
Quote from: Alps on October 15, 2016, 11:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
I'd count train clinches, but boat clinches seem iffy to me. No "Welcome to Ketchikan Gateway" sign in the middle of the water. :D
Can't tell you how many county lines I've crossed without seeing a sign.
To me, it's like flying over counties -- is there a real means of making sure you actually are in whichever county when you're on a long boat trip, especially when the boat may be travelling parallel to such?
Use a GPS.
Are the county lines over ocean reliable in the vector sets used by GPS services?
I've been thinking more about this. It would be a once in a lifetime opportunity (since, absent a roadgeek carpool/meet, the chances of me getting to Alaska prior to retirement are slim; I don't fly), but it would be expensive (and next year is already going to be interesting since that's when I buy out my car lease, which I was hoping to do in full to avoid a loan, but even without Alaska, it's not a sure thing) and use a very large chunk of my accrued vacation time (which would make things tight for other trips, such as the trips I take to Rochester for family gatherings). It would certainly have been more convenient to have it later to have more time to accrue time and not have it be right on top of when I buy out my car lease (also, the upcoming realignment of the Dalton Highway will cause clinching weirdness for everyone on the meet, so I personally would have made a trip after that was done; there's also the proposed connection between the Glenn and Seward freeways for those who go to Anchorage too, but who knows if that will ever get built). But, the meet is next year, for better or worse, and I would be a bad roadgeek if I didn't at least think about it.
So, I came up with a potential trip. This assumes a carpool, as most legs are 10 hour days, some closer to 15. This would require me to take 15 days off work, but assumes there is no day staying in one place (such as Fairbanks); probably not a safe assumption. It DOES include a clinch of all of Alaska's interstates, as well as AK 1 and the westernmost point of North America's continuous highway system.
Day 1: Albany - Rochester
Day 2: Rochester - Joliet
Day 3: Joliet - Grand Forks
Day 4: Grand Forks - Saskatoon Lloydminster
Day 5: Saskatoon Lloydminster - Fort Nelson
Day 6: Fort Nelson - Whiteshorse
Day 7: Whitehorse - Fairbanks
Day 8: Fairbanks Meet Day
Day 9: Fairbanks - Deadhorse
Day 10: Deadhorse - Fairbanks
Day 11: Fairbanks - Homer
Day 12: Homer - Beaver Creek
Day 13: Beaver Creek - Watson Lake
Day 14: Watson Lake - Dawson Creek
Day 15: Dawson Creek - Vancouver
Day 16: Vancouver - Butte
Day 17: Butte - Sioux Falls
Day 18: Sioux Falls - Joliet
Day 19: Joliet - Port Huron Sarnia
Day 20: Port Huron Sarnia - Albany
Days 21-22: Rest/Recharge
The lodging estimate here would be $2080, but that's a VERY rough estimate based on some searches on Hotels.com just a couple hours ago (assumptions: used 2 people, since that's easier to estimate than 3 or 4, and all were using a night of 7/14-7/15 for simplicity); many places are reasonable, but some places (Fairbanks, Homer, and Vancouver*, and Port Huron**) are notably more expensive, and some couldn't be estimated. It's worth noting that lodging for some dates is filling up FAST; many hotels only have 2-3 rooms, even this far out.
*Neighboring Bellingham is significantly less expensive. Did not think to investigate the suburbs individually and am too lazy too now.
**Sarnia is much less expensive and includes the advantage that customs would have no idea how many roads I tried to clinch in Ontario based on entry/exit time data. (also, a clinch of ON 401 between ON 402 and ON 137 would appear to be feasible)
Another possibility to investigate is the Alaska Marine Ferry. I have no idea what its rates are or how long it takes to get from Homer to Washington, but it would eliminate deadheading down the Alaska Highway (but also a clinch of AK 1 and Alaska's interstate system).
Valerie, a few notes:
The Alaska Marine Highway System summer 2017 schedule is still out for public comment (ending next week). See http://www.dot.state.ak.us/amhs/share/schedule/considerations.pdf One upshot is that only one vessel, the M/V Kennicott, goes between Bellingham WA and Homer (or other south central Alaska ports) via the Gulf of Alaska, and it does the round trip only about once every two weeks in the summer. With that frequency of service, it might not fit into your schedule. A second vessel, the M/V Columbia, goes between the southeast panhandle and Bellingham, with once-a-week service in the summer, which would give you additional options at the expense of having to backtrack through Canada to get to Haines or Skagway.
My recollection (from a trip on the Kennicott this summer, from Ketchikan to Juneau) is that the one way trip from Homer to Bellingham or vice versa takes about six days. There are ways to trim that down such as by subbing Whittier for Homer.
The AMHS website will give you some idea of costs, but the current rates quoted on the site reflect a deep winter discount.
The Kennicott, but apparently not the Columbia, will bypass Petersburg and Wrangell to avoid the large-ship-unfriendly Wrangell Narrows.
As for the land portion of your itinerary, day 5 (Saskatoon-Fort Nelson) seems really a stretch. Consider subbing Lloydminster or Edmonton as your day 4 overnight stop.
As schedules firm up, I can suggest some modest but affordable motels in Whitehorse and Delta Junction. Not a good idea to do DJ to Deadhorse in one day, but if the meet will include a day or two puttering around the Fairbanks area, an overnight in DJ instead of Fairbanks becomes an option. The Milepost (2017 edition should be out next March) will give you additional ideas, not all of which might be readily found online.
I would suggest alloting three days for the Dalton. You won't get to see anything doing it in one day in both directions. In 2012, I did the Dalton northbound in one day (from Manley Hot Springs to Deadhorse), but limped into Deadhorse after sunset, and was so exhausted I stayed an extra night in Deadhorse and took two days (overnight in Coldfoot) on the way back to Fairbanks. The one-way van tour I took in 1994 also included an overnight in Coldfoot, with a half-day from Coldfoot to Deadhorse (north of the Atigun Pass area, the most mind-numbingly boring part of the Dalton), with time in the afternoon for the not-to-be-missed dip in the Arctic Ocean before we headed to the airport to fly back to Fairbanks.
The price of lodgings along the Dalton Highway seem remarkably stable but high. My overnight in Coldfoot in 1994, and three nights in Deadhorse and Coldfoot in 2012, were all $199/night in rooms that will snugly fit two people.
That explains why Google won't route over the marine ferry. Looks like it's not the time-saver I would have hoped. It's too bad the website isn't more clear about these things.
It's hard not to have some long days that far north since everything is so far apart; the only reason I would bother with them at all is because the entire part west of Joliet is intended to be a carpool and is more or less based on the version AJ posted a while back, with modifications based on conversations at the Birmingham meet and a post Steve made here. Grand Forks - Edmonton is the same big leap (it's via Winnipeg, based on AJ's itinerary and the fact that I've never been to Manitoba), but I wasn't aware of Lloydminster, which seems perfect for evening it out.
Have you considered taking the paved Cassiar Highway back south? It's probably more direct to do so that way if you're heading to Vancouver, and is supposed to be more scenic than the Alaska Highway.
On the subject of 2 vs. 3 days of the Dalton- definitely agree that anybody doing it solo should take that long, because 1000 miles of driving alone down a dirt road of dubious quality would be exhausting.
In our case, I'm hoping we'll have 3-4 drivers per car, allowing us to switch off frequently, hopefully minimizing that exhaustion and making it doable in two. Since we're planning on going in the summer, we should able to pull two 17-18 hour days (assuming a 35 MPH average moving speed and a few hours out of the car, which seems like a worst case scenario average driving speed- I'm expecting we'll be averaging closer to 40-42, which would cut off a couple hours of travel and is still slower than the 45-47 I averaged clinching Montana's off-pavement highway system), allowing for several hours to get out and see whatever there is to see.
Quote from: corco on October 19, 2016, 03:01:29 PM
Have you considered taking the paved Cassiar Highway back south? It's probably more direct to do so that way if you're heading to Vancouver, and is supposed to be more scenic than the Alaska Highway.
On that note, I was thinking of the following route:
Day 1: I-55N to I-355N to I-90W to I-94W to I-29N
Day 2: I-29N to MB-75N to MB-100W to MB-1W to SK-1W to SK-11N to SK-16W
Day 3: SK-16W to AB-16W to AB-43W to BC-2N to BC-97N
Day4: BC-97N to YT-1N
Day 5: YT-1N to AK-2W
Day 6: AK-2W to AK-11N
Day 7: AK-11S to AK-2E
Day 8:AK-3S to AK-1S
Day 9: AK-1N to AK-2E to YT-1S
Day 10: YT-1S
Day 11: YT-1N to BC-37S
Day 12: BC-37S
Day 13: BC-16E to BC-97S to BC-5S to BC-97CE to BC-97S
Day 14: US-97S to I-90E to I-82E to I-84W to US-730E to US-12E
Day 15: I-90E to I-94E
Day 16: I-94E to I-90E to I-355S to I-55S
Of course, subject to change.
QuoteOn the subject of 2 vs. 3 days of the Dalton- definitely agree that anybody doing it solo should take that long, because 1000 miles of driving alone down a dirt road of dubious quality would be exhausting.
In our case, I'm hoping we'll have 3-4 drivers per car, allowing us to switch off frequently, hopefully minimizing that exhaustion and making it doable in two. Since we're planning on going in the summer, we should able to pull two 17-18 hour days (assuming a 35 MPH average moving speed and a few hours out of the car, which seems like a worst case scenario average driving speed- I'm expecting we'll be averaging closer to 40-42, which would cut off a couple hours of travel and is still slower than the 45-47 I averaged clinching Montana's off-pavement highway system), allowing for several hours to get out and see whatever there is to see.
A good portion of the Dalton Highway is paved as well, and that should speed things up a bit. Apparently the state has been paving it in bits and pieces and increasing the paved amount year by year.
Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2016, 03:54:33 PM
A good portion of the Dalton Highway is paved as well, and that should speed things up a bit. Apparently the state has been paving it in bits and pieces and increasing the paved amount year by year.
That pavement has been quickly disintegrating, starting as soon as a year or two after it has been laid down. The resulting surface is a little better than the original gravel (less dust and gravel thrown up by passing vehicles), but don't count on much of a boost in travel speeds.
A 35mph average (not including sightseeing stops) seems reasonable, allowing for surface quality, the occasional need to slow down to minimize windshield damage from gravel kicked up by passing trucks (my truck's windshield survived a round trip on the Dalton, but I saw few other intact windshields along the highway), and the slow Atigun Pass section. On gravel (most of the highway), expect lower travel speeds for potholes and slippery surfaces, if it's just rained and the graders haven't had a chance to smooth things out.
Quote from: corco on October 19, 2016, 03:01:29 PM
Have you considered taking the paved Cassiar Highway back south? It's probably more direct to do so that way if you're heading to Vancouver, and is supposed to be more scenic than the Alaska Highway.
I agree with that suggestion. I drove the Cassiar back from Alaska in 2012, heading back south toward Vancouver. Not really much more scenic than the Alaska Highway, but it's at least a change of pace. Not much service availability along the Cassiar, but it gets better after you reach TCH 16.
One possible side trip off the Cassiar is to Hyder AK, right next to Stewart BC on BC 37A. That would snag you another Alaska county equivalent, give you a chance to get "Hyderized" at the local bar (make sure you have a designated driver, or lots of time to bring your blood alcohol below Canada's limits, expect Canada Customs and Border Protection and the Mounties to be on the lookout for DUI), and visit the drive-up Bear Glacier on the Canadian side.
My plan at this point, for what it's worth:
Day 0: Work, drive to Ellensburg, WA
Day 1: Drive to Prince George BC via US/BC 97
Day 2: Drive to Watson Lake YT via BC 97/YT 1
Day 3: Drive to Skagway, AK, catch the PM ferry to Haines AK, spend the night in Haines
Day 4: Drive to Fairbanks
Day 5: Fairbanks Meet, if that's a separate thing
Day 6: Dalton portion of meet, drive to Deadhorse
Day 7: Return to Fairbanks, go to the car wash
Day 8: Ditch you assholes, drive to Palmer or so and stop at Denali
Day 9: Drive to Whitehorse via Dawson City
Day 10: Drive to Stewart/Hyder
Day 11: Drive to Kamloops
Day 12: Return to Boise
Wasn't aware the Cassiar was fully paved. It certainly seems like a good idea... at the very least, it reduces the amount of deadheading on the Alaska Highway.
The Fairbanks Meet is a separate day. The Dalton drive will be the two days after that. With all the driving everyone's doing, a lighter day will be a nice break. Here's what I'm planning on:
* Johansen Expressway - including stubs and possibly the northernmost SPUI in the world? Stops #1 and #2
* Highways 2 and 3, junction of Alaska's Interstates
* A visit to North Pole and the Santa Claus House, just because; will use Old Richardson Highway in one direction between North Pole and Fairbanks. Stop #3
* Open to suggestions. Could also drive Old Steese Hwy. up to Highway 2/6 junction. The new Tanana Road ("Road to Nowhere") seems a bit far.
I'm also giving thought to an RV, a rolling roadgeek meet, if you will. I've seen a few that, when divided by enough people, come out to $550-$800 per person on board. That would solve most of the lodging issues and costs. It would, by cooking on board, cut down the restaurant costs as well.
Quote from: Alps on October 19, 2016, 07:48:41 PM
The Fairbanks Meet is a separate day. The Dalton drive will be the two days after that. With all the driving everyone's doing, a lighter day will be a nice break. Here's what I'm planning on:
* Johansen Expressway - including stubs and possibly the northernmost SPUI in the world? Stops #1 and #2
* Highways 2 and 3, junction of Alaska's Interstates
* A visit to North Pole and the Santa Claus House, just because; will use Old Richardson Highway in one direction between North Pole and Fairbanks. Stop #3
* Open to suggestions. Could also drive Old Steese Hwy. up to Highway 2/6 junction. The new Tanana Road ("Road to Nowhere") seems a bit far.
The Road to Tanana requires you to take the Elliott Highway almost all the way to Manley Hot Springs. West of the Dalton junction, the Elliott is unpaved, and in some places rougher than the Dalton. The only way I think you could work it in is on the way back from Deadhorse, with an overnight at the Manley Roadhouse, and perhaps a soak in the local hot spring (ask me for details).
In North Pole, make sure to go far enough off the highway to check out the candy-cane lightpoles.
Also in the Fairbanks area, Chena Hot Springs Road off the Steese Expressway, which is fully paved. About half-way to the resort is a heat pipe system to refrigerate a particularly difficult patch of permafrost right under the pavement.
Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2016, 08:13:09 PM
I'm also giving thought to an RV, a rolling roadgeek meet, if you will. I've seen a few that, when divided by enough people, come out to $550-$800 per person on board. That would solve most of the lodging issues and costs. It would, by cooking on board, cut down the restaurant costs as well.
I have no experience with that option, but it seems do-able for most of the trip. But plan on not taking it on the Dalton. Most rental contracts won't allow it, and most of the ones issued in Alaska will specifically prohibit travel on the Dalton (the ones that don't will charge extra for ruggedized vehicles). You would also need to make sure the tires are up to snuff for the Dalton -- RVs and trailers, with regular passenger car (rather than light truck) tires, seem to be particularly prone to flats. Two of my hot springer friends had
five flat tires on their RV (even though the tires were practically brand-new), on the Dalton coming back from Coldfoot.
When I determined it would require three weeks to do the drive all the way from NY, I pretty much immediately ruled that out as an option. To me even taking two consecutive weeks off seems onerous and I consider myself lucky my current employer has allowed it more than once with no complaints.
I do still want to "drive to Alaska" but I tentatively expect this to take the form of flying to Seattle, doing a one way rental from there to Fairbanks, and then taking two planes home. That's if I can actually do a one way rental to Alaska - if not I'll have to either figure out how to squeeze in a return trip or do two planes both ways and skip the Alaska Highway.
And that's if I can make it at all - seeing as I have agreed to be in my sister's wedding party this would have to be either one of the later July dates or possibly late May/early June. I will not be able to do late June/early July due to wedding prep obligations.
I do like the RV idea. Campgrounds with electric/water hookups are certainly a LOT cheaper than hotels, and the RV gives you many of those amenities, plus you aren't constantly packing/unpacking. Some campgrounds apparently even have wifi these days.
Leaning toward Tue 7/11 or Thu 7/13 for the meet itself, followed by 2 days of the Dalton Highway. Anyone have any thoughts on a Tuesday vs. a Thursday, or whether another day of the week would be even more advantageous? For myself, I plan to have 3 travel days in one direction and 5 in the other, so that makes these work best for my logistics.
I'd prefer 7/11 myself, but could make the 13th work if doing it on the 13th is the only way to maximize attendance. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday work better for me than Thursday, and Friday/Saturday doesn't work.
Friday/Saturday means I have to fly, which I'm fine with, but that's one less Dalton-eligible vehicle.
I vote for 7/11, since I can use one fewer vacation day due to the July 4 holiday (it dovetails nicely, too, so I could even incorporate the family July 4 celebration into the trip).
Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2016, 08:13:09 PM
I'm also giving thought to an RV, a rolling roadgeek meet, if you will. I've seen a few that, when divided by enough people, come out to $550-$800 per person on board. That would solve most of the lodging issues and costs. It would, by cooking on board, cut down the restaurant costs as well.
I very much like this idea; split the cost of the rental and the gas amongst those on board, have each person going on the trip arrange to cook X number of meals for everyone, with someone else doing the clean up. You can even reduce the amount of food taken by stopping at grocery stores or WalMart/BJs locations along the way. Maybe we can even rotate drivers if the rental contract allows. If my wife and I go on the trip, this would also make it much easier for us to bring our dogs along and save the cost of a dog sitter.
Even better, do any roadgeeks own an RV they'd be willing to use for the trip? That way you need only split the cost for gas and meals.
My father-in-law owns an RV, but they live in it full-time and I doubt they'd be willing to use it for this purpose, especially considering the fact that he and his wife both still work. They HAVE taken road trips in it and cite Wal-Mart parking lots as being a nice free option for RV-ers; we could consider that to reduce the campground stay costs even further.
That all said, I may not be able to get three consecutive weeks off work. Even if I could it significantly reduces the amount of PTO available to me for out-of-town family visits, distant robotics competitions and license plate collectors' meets, and other roadgeek meets. My wife wants me to come along to visit family of hers in South Africa; to make this economical this would be a long trip and we were thinking of going for Christmas/New Year's 2017-2018 to use my PTO time from two different years (my employer does not allow carryover; PTO time is use it by 12/31 or lose it forever), provided we save up enough money.
It's something she and I have not discussed yet and I suspect it will be a long discussion when it happens.
My understanding of the logic behind taking an RV was that you wouldn't be stopping overnight, and could drive straight through.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 21, 2016, 04:05:33 PM
My understanding of the logic behind taking an RV was that you wouldn't be stopping overnight, and could drive straight through.
If I recall correctly, the beds in my father-in-law's RV are unusable (stowed away) unless the RV is stopped and the pop-outs are popped out. I could be wrong; I didn't pay all that much attention to be honest -- when we visited in August, the RV stayed in the campsite with the pop-outs popped out and we took their car whenever we needed to go someplace. It could also depend on the specific RV rented.
If there are roadgeeky things to see on the way to Alaska, driving through the night would mean everyone would miss half the things, with the nighttime drivers potentially missing all the things (hard to see them at night). It also messes up the sleep schedules of half of the people.
If that's not the case, then sure, driving through the night reduces hotel costs to near zero. But there'd need to be a day or two upon arrival to reset the sleep schedules of the overnight drivers and perhaps a day or two on each end to get the overnight drivers ready for overnight driving (i.e. don't ask them to drive on the first night, since they will be sleepy as their sleep schedules adjust).
Quote from: tckma on October 21, 2016, 04:32:10 PM
If there are roadgeeky things to see on the way to Alaska, driving through the night would mean everyone would miss half the things, with the nighttime drivers potentially missing all the things (hard to see them at night). It also messes up the sleep schedules of half of the people.
Not a lot of darkness in the summer north of the south end of the Alaska Highway. But I agree with your point above, and others, about the desirability of overnight stops. An RV with multiple drivers would still stretch out the driving days to take better advantage of the available daylight, while keeping everybody well-rested and with undisturbed sleep cycles.
Also, unless the RV has on-board shower facilities that can be used while the RV is in motion, it can get smelly in there pretty quickly. And don't forget the need to stop for dump stations to properly dispose of accumulated sewage from the on-board toilet and kitchen facilities. Overnight stops at RV parks should help with those and other logistical issues.
The one RV park I stayed at along the Alaska Highway in 2012 (not by choice, a First Nations conference was jamming up lodgings in Watson Lake that day) had showers, laundry, and wi-fi. Even when I had to camp in undeveloped campsites, I was pleased to find some laundromats with shower facilities.
I know vdeane doesn't fly commercial, but have any of you considered the notion of whether it might be feasible to charter a plane from a smaller airport somewhere in New York or nearby to, say, somewhere in Washington State, then drive? I know it sounds absurdly expensive at first blush, but depending on how many people you have, it might not be utterly insane once you consider reduced cost for food/gas/lodging/time off work to drive, and a charter flight might help with vdeane's stated aversion to the TSA process since general aviation usually skips all the TSA folderol if you go out of a smaller airport.
Before you say "WTF," I looked into chartering a plane through Bombardier Skyjet with a group of people for a football trip to Wyoming a few years ago, with the idea being that because we had 12 people we could go out and back the same day such that the extra cost may have been cheaper than flying commercial to Denver, renting cars, staying multiple nights, paying for meals, etc. We were going to fly out of Leesburg, Virginia. It ultimately fell apart because we would have had to have left so early, and we would have gotten back so late, that we would have had to pay another surcharge for overnighting the plane in Leesburg and keeping it waiting all afternoon in Wyoming. If we could have avoided those costs, it would have been cheaper than all of us going out separately (well, not counting that when the charter fell apart, I used American Express points on Frontier to fly round trip from Reagan to Denver for $11). But in your case, you'd fly out and then not need a plane again for a week or so, so you might not have the same expense.
Of course, this idea defeats a lot of the roadgeek interest of the roundtrip drive, but I'm trying to balance it with practicality in view of the time concerns. Obviously it'd depend on having enough people willing to meet at one location to split the cost enough to make it viable.
(I have no clue whether you could charter a plane to Alaska. Skyjet won't let you price an itinerary outside the Lower 48 online–you have to call, and I had neither the time nor the interest to do that today, especially not the time. Unusually busy day at work. This is why I mention flying to Washington State. No doubt flying into, say, Whitehorse would be even more complicated.)
TSA screening process? Haven't had to deal with the full body scanner BS since I got NEXUS. People with NEXUS and PreCheck can just pass through a metal detector and be on their way. Flipping wonderful.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 21, 2016, 09:20:13 PM
I know vdeane doesn't fly commercial, but have any of you considered the notion of whether it might be feasible to charter a plane from a smaller airport somewhere in New York or nearby to, say, somewhere in Washington State, then drive? I know it sounds absurdly expensive at first blush, but depending on how many people you have, it might not be utterly insane once you consider reduced cost for food/gas/lodging/time off work to drive, and a charter flight might help with vdeane's stated aversion to the TSA process since general aviation usually skips all the TSA folderol if you go out of a smaller airport.
Might be something to look into. My first job out of college was working on software for air traffic controllers; thus we had several hobby pilots on staff. There was one year where one of my co-workers needed to fly X number of hours to keep his license current. The FAA's software test facility is at Atlantic City airport; we went to their Christmas party that year. We rented two four-passenger planes, flew out of Hanscom Field in Massachusetts directly to Atlantic City. Went to one of the casinos for some blackjack, then to the FAA Christmas party. We flew back to Hanscom Field that afternoon. This was after 9/11, and we went through exactly zero TSA screening bullshit. Minus my gambling losses, my portion was just south of $300, though I don't remember the exact amount. Granted, this was just for renting the planes, jet fuel, parking the plane at ACY airport, and so on, since we had two pilots going with us. Also, this was about ten years ago, so I'm sure prices have gone up.