Wisconsin notes

[tdindy88]

That's odd. I got one last year from the visitors center in Ludington, Michigan (due to the car ferry across Lake Michigan no doubt.) It was the 2010 version though, but it was a newer map than the previous Wisconsin map I had (2008.)

[mgk920]

In case anyone missed it, WisDOT began work on the 'Big Shovel' rebuild of the Zoo Interchange (I-(41)/94/894/US 45) in Milwaukee late last week with the closure and removal of the Greenfield Ave bridge over I-(41)/894/US 45.  The full freeway was closed during the overnight hours on Friday and Saturday nights to allow crews to remove the bridge.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/188147081.html

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/zoo-interchange-project

This is expected to be a six-year project.

Enjoy!



Mike

[triplemultiplex]

I added an update to the Milwaukee Freeways thread to that effect.

I see WisDOT is looking to officially designate WI 15 as an expressway between New London and Greenville.  I find that interesting considering the proposed intersection at the west end of the future Hortonville bypass.  Doesn't seem to fit the character of what we've come to expect from 'expressways' in Wisconsin.  I assume this means that WI 15 will be posted at 65 mph when that project is done.  So to have an intersection where the thru route has to make a turn in the middle of a 65 mph stretch seems like a poor idea.

[mgk920]

I added an update to the Milwaukee Freeways thread to that effect.

I see WisDOT is looking to officially designate WI 15 as an expressway between New London and Greenville.  I find that interesting considering the proposed intersection at the west end of the future Hortonville bypass.  Doesn't seem to fit the character of what we've come to expect from 'expressways' in Wisconsin.  I assume this means that WI 15 will be posted at 65 mph when that project is done.  So to have an intersection where the thru route has to make a turn in the middle of a 65 mph stretch seems like a poor idea.

From what I am aware of, the current plan for both ends of the proposed Hortonville bypass are two-lane roundabouts.

Mike

[on_wisconsin]

WisDOT recently held a PIM for reconstructing US 12 through The Dells area, one of the proposals is to make the existing highway one-way northbound and rebuilding a local street corridor as its southbound opposite.
See Alt 4C (pages 8-9): http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/swregion/12dells/docs/ho-alts.pdf
Personally, I think this is the best option as the other alternatives are really not much more then putting lip stick on pig. IMHO

[DaBigE]

WisDOT recently held a PIM for reconstructing US 12 through The Dells area, one of the proposals is to make the existing highway one-way northbound and rebuilding a local street corridor as its southbound opposite.
See Alt 4C (pages 8-9): http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/swregion/12dells/docs/ho-alts.pdf
Personally, I think this is the best option as the other alternatives are really not much more then putting lip stick on pig. IMHO

There are a few ways of looking at the one-way couplet:

• Most efficient traffic flow
• Businesses less accessible/visible
• Businesses potentially see 1/2 the traffic
• Land value along new SB alignment skyrockets

Being involved in the design process for this project, that's about all I can say about it for now. Keep in mind that the businesses along this corridor are the life-blood of the Dells.

[SEWIGuy]

Are there a lot of problems along this stretch?  Because honestly my guess is 95% the traffic on this road is tourist traffic.  Unless there are an inordinate number of accidents, I am not sure why they would change anything.

[mgk920]

I'd kind of agree, it is a local traffic road and not a through route (wondering what life was like on it before I-90/94 was built...  ).  From my experiences on it, four lanes with left turn lanes should be sufficient.  How expensive would it be to upgrade at least parts of it to six lanes for the local traffic?

If anything, I still wonder why US 12 wasn't downgraded to a county highway west of the Lake Delton interchange in Wisconsin back when the interstate was first built.

An aside thought, that Lake Delton interchange is, IMHO, going to end up being a long-term FUBAR - it should have had separate high-speed ramps for the freeway-to-freeway through traffic turns with the surface US 12 maintained much as it was for the local tourist crowd.



Mike

[triplemultiplex]

The one-way pair options are not particularly useful.  The water parks and stuff along that corridor are the destination.  This is not a place that needs better thru traffic.  It just needs better left turn capabilities.  Maybe throw in a couple more traffic signals to create gaps for left turns to happen.


Mike, I think your Lake Delton CF is still a ways in the future.  One simple upgrade that could stave off the need for a upgrade to full system interchange would be to have NB distributor ramp that allows NB->WB traffic to bypass the signal.  Really that's your heaviest system movement.

[Mdcastle]

I'm not a fan of the one way pair. Granted it's a problem that "through traffic" from one end to the other mixes with "local traffic" going to Noah's or wherever, but the one way pair doesn't solve it. The real problem in the area are the crossroads of WI 13 and US 12, which just needs more turn lanes and the removal of the split phase arrangement, and banning left turns in the downtown area where there isn't a left turn bay provided.

[hobsini2]

I'm not a fan of the one way pair. Granted it's a problem that "through traffic" from one end to the other mixes with "local traffic" going to Noah's or wherever, but the one way pair doesn't solve it. The real problem in the area are the crossroads of WI 13 and US 12, which just needs more turn lanes and the removal of the split phase arrangement, and banning left turns in the downtown area where there isn't a left turn bay provided.

I agree that the WI 13 and US 12 intersection is the cause of the backups in the Dells. South of there, Dells Pkwy is fine . I would be in favor of having the Pkwy having a reversible turn lane at least as far south as the 23-12 split in Lake Delton. As to what to do with the 13-12 intersection, I think you have to have a very long queue of a right turn lane for NB 12 to EB 13 and a double turn lane for NB 12 to WB 13. (Yes I know those are not the directions the state uses but those are the real directions as laid out.) They might also want to think about widening the bridge over the river to accommodate the 13 WB to 12 SB traffic. I don't think the current lane is long enough especially when the peak summer traffic is in town.

[on_wisconsin]

State to propose innovative Stoughton Road interchange
9 hours ago  -  BARRY ADAMS | Wisconsin State Journal |



The newest way to control traffic in the state won't have motorists doing circles in a roundabout. Instead, be prepared to drive on the left side of the road – on purpose.

When the state Department of Transportation holds a public information meeting on Tuesday about major changes to an 11-mile stretch of Stoughton Road/Highway 51, visitors will be introduced to what is called a diverging diamond interchange.

The design works like this: As drivers approach the interchange, those making a right turn merge on to an on-ramp; those going straight or making a left turn continue on to an intersection with traffic signals. The opposing lanes of traffic then lazily cross one another, continuing for a few hundred feet to the left of each other. Drivers turning left can then peel off, unimpeded, onto another ramp, while those continuing straight stay in their lanes, which cross back to the right side of the opposing lanes.

The DOT has proposed the design where Stoughton Road intersects the Beltline and at Highway 30 and is part of an improvement project for the busy corridor that could cost, depending on the final design for each project along the corridor, $215 million to $875 million.

At the Beltline, for example, the price could range from $26 million for a diverging diamond interchange to $280 million for a free-flowing interchange.

At the earliest, construction from Terminal Drive in McFarland to Highway 19 in DeForest wouldn't begin until 2020, would likely be built in phases and could take 10 years to complete.

Mike Hoelker, a planning supervisor for the DOT, said the goal is to reduce crashes, increase connectivity for neighborhoods and add routes for pedestrians and bicyclists.

"We want this to be a corridor that functions safely and efficiently but works within the communities so that it doesn't become a barrier," Hoelker said. "It has to fit into the community."
A crash a day

Stoughton Road, which is also Highway 51, is one of the county's most heavily traveled roadways. Peak-hour delays are increasing with long backups at Pflaum and Buckeye roads and East Washington Avenue, Hoelker said. From 2007 to 2011, the corridor experienced, on average, seven crashes per week, including more than two per week with injuries. During the five-year span, 10 people were killed.

The improvements would remove street-level crossings at Pflaum, Buckeye and East Washington Avenue, sinking Stoughton Road at those intersections below what is now ground level. Stoughton Road would be elevated over Anderson Street and Kinsman Boulevard. The project would also add overpass ramps at East Broadway.

Diverging diamond interchanges would be built under both the Beltline and Highway 30 bridges. In some spots the corridor would consist of six lanes of traffic, while six bicycle and pedestrian bridges would be built over Stoughton Road.

Tuesday's open house will feature foam and computer models, maps and videos portraying different types of intersections.

The meeting is part of a continuing planning process that will include more public hearings and informational meetings. Plans, which could change based on public comment, would not be finalized until next year.

"It's to help familiarize people with some of the concepts we're putting out there and giving them a good idea of what the corridor is going to look like," said Jeff Berens, a DOT traffic safety engineer. "We've had to look at some fairly innovative designs that probably a lot of people in Wisconsin haven't seen before or driven through."
'They move traffic'

Diverging diamond intersections are believed to have originated in France in the 1970s but were not introduced in the U.S. until 2009, when one was built at Interstate 44 and Highway 13 in Springfield, Mo. Motorists were skeptical at first when the new interchange was shown at public meetings, but the state has completed or is building more, said Bob Edwards, a spokesman for the Missouri Department of Transportation.

"They work. They move traffic," Edwards said. "We get more complaints about roundabouts."

Other states with the interchanges include Tennessee, Utah and Minnesota, which is scheduled to open its first – in St. Cloud – this fall.

The diverging diamond interchanges proposed for Madison would be the first to be included in a state road project, but a number of locations around the state are being examined, said Michael Bie, a DOT spokesman.

The design lowers speeds, eliminates the chance of a T-bone crash and costs 10 times less than a free-flowing interchange like Interstate 39-90-94 and Highway 30, where traffic from any direction does not stop.

"It just guides you through," Hoelker said. "It's actually a very simple concept."

If you go

What: Public information meeting to discuss corridor planning for an 11-mile stretch of Stoughton Road/Highway 51, from Terminal Drive/Voges Road in McFarland to Highway 19 in DeForest.

When: 6 to 8 p.m. Tuesday with a formal presentation at 6:30 p.m.

Where: La Follette High School, 702 Pflaum Road

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/state-to-propose-innovative-stoughton-road-interchange/article_90572ba4-8dae-11e2-a5fc-001a4bcf887a.html
New depressed freeway and diverging diamond(s)...

[DaBigE]

Just saw that article as well...I must agree with the comments that a video or diagram of a DDI would have been helpful. Also, note that the artist has no concept of traffic signals in Wisconsin...all of the monotubes are depicted on the near-side. 

New depressed freeway and diverging diamond(s)...

If you like that, you might wet yourself with all the DDI concepts for the I-43 corridor: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm

[mgk920]

I'm very open to the idea of DDIs at the crossroad interchanges while OTOH, I'd be more inclined to go with the idea of going big at the Beltline.  Farther north (WI 30 and beyond) will be, IMHO, the biggest question marks.  Stoughton Rd (US 51) is a major local thoroughfare, very unlike the nearby paralleling interstate, and with expected continuing metro growth will need upgrades that will last a few decades.

As I have mentioned in other forvms, my biggest worry with DDIs is how traffic is handled in the event of power failures.  Do they go with 'STOP' signs for the side entering the interchange stopping for the side leaving the interchange at the crossovers?  Both directions stopping?

Mike

[Big John]

As I have mentioned in other forvms, my biggest worry with DDIs is how traffic is handled in the event of power failures.  Do they go with 'STOP' signs for the side entering the interchange stopping for the side leaving the interchange at the crossovers?  Both directions stopping?

Mike

According to this: http://www.divergingdiamond.com/FAQ.html  a power outage would operate as an all-way stop, such as any other signalized intersection with a power outage.

[colinstu]

Curious how a SPUI would work during a power outage. Sounds like HELL! Huge intersection, big movements, sounds like it'd be real slow. Lots of wiggle room for sure and I bet most cars could crawl a ways into the intersection before completing their move.

[mgk920]

As I have mentioned in other forvms, my biggest worry with DDIs is how traffic is handled in the event of power failures.  Do they go with 'STOP' signs for the side entering the interchange stopping for the side leaving the interchange at the crossovers?  Both directions stopping?

Mike

According to this: http://www.divergingdiamond.com/FAQ.html  a power outage would operate as an all-way stop, such as any other signalized intersection with a power outage.

Whereas a roundabout would continue functioning normally (but I digress).



Mike

[mgk920]

I also remember from a number of years ago Stoughton Rd being referred to in some circles as the 'East Beltline' and functioning in much the same way as the existing south and west Beltline.

Mike

[triplemultiplex]

WisDOT seems to be leaning heavily on basically a freeway conversion for Stoughton Rd. (minus the system connetions).  I have very little familiarity with that corridor's performance since as an out of towner, I'm always coming in from the interstate.  So I was kind of surprised at the flyover options at Stoughton & the Beltline when I first started looking at the stuff for this corridor a few years ago.  The price tag for the DDI is certainly more attractive, but I can only speculate as to how effective it would be.

[tdindy88]

I also remember from a number of years ago Stoughton Rd being referred to in some circles as the 'East Beltline' and functioning in much the same way as the existing south and west Beltline.

Mike

Is there any historical reason for this? I would have thought that 39/90 would have been viewed as the eastern Beltline. I'm not really familar with the history of Madison's highways, I just have a curiosity over them since I plan on visiting the city later on this year.

[hobsini2]

WisDOT seems to be leaning heavily on basically a freeway conversion for Stoughton Rd. (minus the system connetions).  I have very little familiarity with that corridor's performance since as an out of towner, I'm always coming in from the interstate.  So I was kind of surprised at the flyover options at Stoughton & the Beltline when I first started looking at the stuff for this corridor a few years ago.  The price tag for the DDI is certainly more attractive, but I can only speculate as to how effective it would be.

There are already parts of Stoughton Rd that act like a quasi expressway between Hwy 19 and the Belt Line. What I am most curious about is what WDOT will do with the US 51 interchange with I-39/90/94. As it currently is, it's fine. But if they are going to convert this part of Stoughton Rd to a freeway, the off ramps from I-39/90/94 need to get redone with the elimination of the traffic signals there too.

[mgk920]

WisDOT seems to be leaning heavily on basically a freeway conversion for Stoughton Rd. (minus the system connetions).  I have very little familiarity with that corridor's performance since as an out of towner, I'm always coming in from the interstate.  So I was kind of surprised at the flyover options at Stoughton & the Beltline when I first started looking at the stuff for this corridor a few years ago.  The price tag for the DDI is certainly more attractive, but I can only speculate as to how effective it would be.

There are already parts of Stoughton Rd that act like a quasi expressway between Hwy 19 and the Belt Line. What I am most curious about is what WDOT will do with the US 51 interchange with I-39/90/94. As it currently is, it's fine. But if they are going to convert this part of Stoughton Rd to a freeway, the off ramps from I-39/90/94 need to get redone with the elimination of the traffic signals there too.

IMHO, the north end past the airport (MSN) to the interstate would need a local-access street alternate should it be upgraded to a full freeway.  North of the interstate, US 51 is a fairly high-standard highway to WI 60 that would fit in well with a freeway upgrade to the south.

Also, and somewhat interesting in the 'What if....?' sense is that to me, this is work that would have been done 40-50 years ago had the interstates not been built, although I do consider it to be very likely that had the interstates not come along, a cross-country ticket tollway would have been built in roughly the US 12 corridor from Chicagoland to the MStP area, by way of Madison.

Mike

[JREwing78]

WisDOT seems to be leaning heavily on basically a freeway conversion for Stoughton Rd. (minus the system connetions).  I have very little familiarity with that corridor's performance since as an out of towner, I'm always coming in from the interstate.  So I was kind of surprised at the flyover options at Stoughton & the Beltline when I first started looking at the stuff for this corridor a few years ago.  The price tag for the DDI is certainly more attractive, but I can only speculate as to how effective it would be.

During the rush hours, the Beltline interchange is quite overwhelmed, particularly the SBD Stoughton Rd to WBD Beltline movement. The Beltline regularly begins backing up here as traffic from Stoughton Rd struggles to merge before the Monona Dr exit. Traffic NBD on Stoughton Rd struggles too; it frequently takes two signal cycles to filter through. Outside of rush hours, it's busy but flows well enough.

The major issue with this area is the intersection at Broadway immediately north. It not only holds up traffic on Stoughton Rd, it makes movements between Broadway and the Beltline messy.

The DDI idea at the Beltline isn't going to perform much better than what's there now; the signal timing mimics a DDI style intersection. If they go with flyovers, they still need to get the SBD to WBD and EBD to NBD movements merge smoothly, which may spell the end of the Monona Dr. exit on the Beltline (or require additional ramps to separate Stoughton Rd and Monona Dr traffic).

Traffic backs up frequently at Buckeye Rd and Pflaum Rd as well, and have a high number of rear-end crashes. This stretch sorely needs grade separation, and its arrival is welcome.

The big issue I have with the non-free-flowing options at the Beltline and WI-30 is that the rest of Stoughton Rd drives similarly to a freeway. That means inattentive traffic will be more likely to miss the signals at the remaining locations, and rear-end accidents will be as bad if not worse than they are now.

[on_wisconsin]

North of the interstate, US 51 is a fairly high-standard highway to WI 60 that would fit in well with a freeway upgrade to the south.

Speaking of that, WisDOT is currently in process of converting US 51 from WIS 19 to just east of DeForest (CTH V/ North St) into a full freeway. Also the Interstate-US 51 interchange has been under heavy reconstruction for the last year or so with many long term ramp closures.
US 51 WisDOT page: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d1/us51/index.htm
DeForest extension: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d1/us51/docs/map-ts3.pdf

[SEWIGuy]

I also remember from a number of years ago Stoughton Rd being referred to in some circles as the 'East Beltline' and functioning in much the same way as the existing south and west Beltline.

Mike

Is there any historical reason for this? I would have thought that 39/90 would have been viewed as the eastern Beltline. I'm not really familar with the history of Madison's highways, I just have a curiosity over them since I plan on visiting the city later on this year.

Stoughton Road carries a ton of local traffic.  If you live in Monona, parts of Cottage Grove or the southeast side of Madison, and you work either downtown or on the west side, you pretty much need to take Stoughton Road and the Beltline to get there.  The root of all of Madison's traffic problems are it's geography, and in particular the lakes.  Most east to west traffic has to take the Beltline because of the lakes.  The isthmus and going north are options, but not particularly good ones.  The problem with the interstate is that there are no interchanges between WI-30 and the Beltline, which effectively means that it is used by through traffic and traffic from the Sun Prairie area and points east.  That means local traffic pretty much has to use Stoughton Road to get to the Beltline.

I think if they could resign the Beltline over, you wouldn't put an interchange at Monona Drive - Stoughton Road and South Towne Drive would serve the area just fine.  However I am not sure they will be able to get rid of it now.  I do think that they need to ramp up the Stoughton Road interchange even at the expense of Monona Drive.