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Wisconsin notes

Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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midwesternroadguy

I could see it for a south bypass of Madison from Verona to I-39/90. It would take traffic off the Beltline and possibly satisfy those locals who would otherwise be against it.  A toll is likely the only way one gets built. I'm not sure traffic counts could justify it though. Others here probably know more about that.
[/quote]

I don't think tolling a second southern beltline around Madison would help sell the concept.  The Town of Dunn will always try to stop any corridor whatsoever from traversing the township.  The township has a limited/controlled growth policy and would certainly be against any type of freeway crossing it, running the gauntlet between Lakes Waubesa and Kegonsa, and the associated pressure fof urbanization that would accompany it. 

I still am rooting for a North Beltline some day.  Spending a lot of time on the far west side of Madison, it would be a corridor that I would use frequently. 


SEWIGuy

I think a far southern bypass of Madison would be near useless.  If you look at a map, I-39/90 swings so far to the east just south of Madison, that it would be too long to be cost effective. 

As has been pointed out here, most of the traffic on the Beltline is local.  That means upgrading the current corridor is the best way to reduce traffic.  The northern Beltline would be the next best option.

SSOWorld

Quote from: colinstu on June 22, 2015, 11:12:18 PM
Everyone here seems opposed to tolling. See it as something that the "lower" people of Chicago do... corrupt and trying to earn every penny from drivers. Every time it's brought up, it's knocked down right away. I don't see it ever happening. Not any time soon.
I never said I was opposed to tolling, but I sure will bet that there is a group of people who don't understand that you cannot get a road for free - hence they don't think when they squeal "don't raise our gas tax" or "keep tolls off our roads".

Well guess what...
They promised no tax raises.
They didn't toll any roads.
But they are watching your speed!!!!!
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

mrose

I could see the southern belt useful between US 14 and US 18/151, as one who frequently did the CTH-M shortcut back in the day. Not sure it would be really practical east of 14 though.

mgk920

Speaking of speed limits, while driving around Appleton last night, I noticed that WisDOT has installed a pair of yellow graphic 'Reduced Speed Ahead/65' signs on opposite sides of SB WI 441 right after the ramp merge from its I-41 'Northeast' interchange in Appleton.

Mike

SSOWorld

Quote from: mgk920 on June 25, 2015, 02:27:40 PM
Speaking of speed limits, while driving around Appleton last night, I noticed that WisDOT has installed a pair of yellow graphic 'Reduced Speed Ahead/65' signs on opposite sides of SB WI 441 right after the ramp merge from its I-41 'Northeast' interchange in Appleton.

Mike
Makes sense, 441 should be 65 (55 intown)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

peterj920

Quote from: mgk920 on June 25, 2015, 02:27:40 PM
Speaking of speed limits, while driving around Appleton last night, I noticed that WisDOT has installed a pair of yellow graphic 'Reduced Speed Ahead/65' signs on opposite sides of SB WI 441 right after the ramp merge from its I-41 'Northeast' interchange in Appleton.

Mike

Those same signs were also installed at the I-43/WIS 54-57 and the I-43/WIS 172 interchanges.

invincor

Quote from: peterj920 on June 25, 2015, 10:39:44 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 25, 2015, 02:27:40 PM
Speaking of speed limits, while driving around Appleton last night, I noticed that WisDOT has installed a pair of yellow graphic 'Reduced Speed Ahead/65' signs on opposite sides of SB WI 441 right after the ramp merge from its I-41 'Northeast' interchange in Appleton.

Mike

Those same signs were also installed at the I-43/WIS 54-57 and the I-43/WIS 172 interchanges.

Signs like those have also been posted on southbound WIS 35 coming off the I-94 offramp heading towards River Falls.  I saw these had been posted the day before the Speed Limit 70 signs on I-94 were, which was the first clue the 65-in-Hudson-area plan had been scrapped. 


The Ghostbuster

Personally, I was indifferent to the 70 MPH speed limit proposal. It doesn't make much of a difference whether the speed limit is 65 or 70. I saw my first 70 MPH sign on Interstate 39/90 while being driven home from a doctor's appointment.

GeekJedi

Quote from: Molandfreak on June 26, 2015, 07:22:22 PM

I would think that a low speed limit anomaly would lead to more people who bypass/don't want to visit Wisconsin.


Are you serious? You think there's someone out there who has said "I'm not going to visit Wisconsin because their speed limit is only 65."? Or that someone will bypass the state completely because of it?

The longest freeway in the state is I-94 at 348 miles. If the speed limit was 65 instead of 70 through the entire route, it would cost you approximately 30 minutes.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

SEWIGuy

#635
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 26, 2015, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2015, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 26, 2015, 07:22:22 PM

I would think that a low speed limit anomaly would lead to more people who bypass/don't want to visit Wisconsin.


Are you serious? You think there's someone out there who has said "I'm not going to visit Wisconsin because their speed limit is only 65."? Or that someone will bypass the state completely because of it?

The longest freeway in the state is I-94 at 348 miles. If the speed limit was 65 instead of 70 through the entire route, it would cost you approximately 30 minutes.
Well yes, I'm being serious. It might not make that much of a difference, but I know a ton of people who would modify plans to travel west just to avoid a speed limit anomaly. To go from say Chicago to Seattle you can avoid Wisconsin by taking I-80, I-84, and I-82.


iPhone


If you indeed know people that would add about 150 miles to their route from Chicago to Seattle, in order to avoid a 65 v. 70 mph speed limit, then the people you know aren't very bright.

If anyone was skipping going through Wisconsin because of this, it wasn't very many people.  Nowhere near enough to make a significant difference.

SSOWorld

Does it really matter anymore?  I suppose now drivers are going to skip North Dakota now that it has 75 mph limits as opposed to South Dakota's 80.

REALLY!!!????

80 is above the prevailing speed of most freeways anyway :sombrero:
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

colinstu

I love the speed increase. Before you mostly had drivers going 65, 70, and 75 (some 60 and some 80). Now however everyone is mostly going 70 or 75 (some 80. Really not that much 65, just people exiting or some trucks).

Less variety in speeds the better. This is definitely a change for the better.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: colinstu on June 27, 2015, 12:32:46 AM
I love the speed increase. Before you mostly had drivers going 65, 70, and 75 (some 60 and some 80). Now however everyone is mostly going 70 or 75 (some 80. Really not that much 65, just people exiting or some trucks).

Less variety in speeds the better. This is definitely a change for the better.


I have actually noticed the opposite.  Some people driving no faster than they did before at about 65 mph.  Hopefully my experience will become more like yours.

SSOWorld

Those faster ones have Illinois plates on them?

There are always some that like to road surf.  These are the ones the cops should be looking for - not the random cruiser that flows with the pack and moves over when necessary
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: SSOWorld on June 27, 2015, 12:11:00 PM
Those faster ones have Illinois plates on them?

There are always some that like to road surf.  These are the ones the cops should be looking for - not the random cruiser that flows with the pack and moves over when necessary


No I am usually one of the faster ones at about 78 or so.  The slower ones are those I am more concerned about.

peterj920

It looks like the first doghouse style traffic signals were installed in Eau Claire.  Posted a video link, fast forward to :33

http://www.wqow.com/story/29418675/2015/06/26/block-of-south-barstow-street-to-close-monday

Big John

^^ And no front-side signals to boot.

DaBigE

#643
Quote from: peterj920 on June 27, 2015, 05:11:13 PM
It looks like the first doghouse style traffic signals were installed in Eau Claire.  Posted a video link, fast forward to :33

http://www.wqow.com/story/29418675/2015/06/26/block-of-south-barstow-street-to-close-monday

Argg...my eyes!   :poke::-o :wow:

Never thought I'd see the day, even though I knew it was a possibility. :no:  A permissive-only FYA doghouse no less.

Can't say I am shocked that Eau Claire did it, as it seems like they've taken over the cutting edge crown for traffic-related items in Wisconsin. One of the first to use Clearview for SNSs, first SPUI, one of the first multilane roundabouts (many of the sign plates from that one made it into the FDM), in the runnings for the first FYA installation (IIRC, Madison or Appleton barely edged them out), first to try the reflective yellow borders around signals, and first to have a dual left turn lane that doesn't operate as protected only.

Quote from: Big John on June 27, 2015, 05:24:34 PM
^^ And no front-side signals to boot.

Front-side? Are you referring to the second FYA signal face for the movement? If so, it's probably on the far-side left pole that's hidden by the trees from that camera angle.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

Big John

Quote from: DaBigE on June 27, 2015, 06:25:32 PM


Front-side? Are you referring to the second FYA signal face for the movement? If so, it's probably on the far-side left pole that's hidden by the trees from that camera angle.
Can't see what is on the left pole behind the tree, but the 2 on the right side show no front side "stop bar" signal heads, something almost every signalized intersection in Wisconsin has.

Roadguy

Quote from: DaBigE on June 27, 2015, 06:25:32 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 27, 2015, 05:11:13 PM
It looks like the first doghouse style traffic signals were installed in Eau Claire.  Posted a video link, fast forward to :33

http://www.wqow.com/story/29418675/2015/06/26/block-of-south-barstow-street-to-close-monday

Argg...my eyes!   :poke::-o :wow:

Never thought I'd see the day, even though I knew it was a possibility. :no:  A permissive-only FYA doghouse no less.

Can't say I am shocked that Eau Claire did it, as it seems like they've taken over the cutting edge crown for traffic-related items in Wisconsin. One of the first to use Clearview for SNSs, first SPUI, one of the first multilane roundabouts (many of the sign plates from that one made it into the FDM), in the runnings for the first FYA installation (IIRC, Madison or Appleton barely edged them out), first to try the reflective yellow borders around signals, and first to have a dual left turn lane that doesn't operate as protected only.

Quote from: Big John on June 27, 2015, 05:24:34 PM
^^ And no front-side signals to boot.

Front-side? Are you referring to the second FYA signal face for the movement? If so, it's probably on the far-side left pole that's hidden by the trees from that camera angle.

Well done Eau Claire! 

I think a lot of their concepts come from their engineers visiting twin cities.  I had heard the SPUI in Eau Claire was based off of the SPUI at 24th Ave and 494 near Mall of America in Bloomington.  Woodbury, an eastern suburb of the twin cities, has for the last few years been installing dual left FYAs.  Now Mn/DOT and many others have done so as well (even on 60 mph expressways like MN 55 and MN 65).  The doghouse signal with the FYA was first tested with approval from FHWA in Eden Prairie a few years back near Eden Prairie Center (The green arrow and FYA share an indication).

Addressing the stop bar (near right) signal head.  With the new monotubes (versus the old trombone arms with a 30' length max :pan:) and recommended signal per lane in the MUTCD , there is no need for a stop bar signal head.  There are already enough signal heads out there.  The only reason Wisconsin had the near right signal head was because if your overheard trombone arm got knocked down (your overhead signal head and far right signal head got knocked down), it only left the stop bar installation and far left signal head for many of the installations.  I have a feeling as time passes, the stop bar signal head will go away as engineers realize it is not needed anymore.

Plus the intersection in the news clip gives a perfect example of why not to have the stop bar signal head.  A stop bar signal head and yield sign at that intersection would only be a few feet from each other which could confuse drivers (especially those unfamiliar with Wi's stop bar signal head standard).  By removing the stop bar signal head, it is clear to drivers making a right turn that the yield sign controls that movement.

mgk920

Quote from: DaBigE on June 27, 2015, 06:25:32 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 27, 2015, 05:11:13 PM
It looks like the first doghouse style traffic signals were installed in Eau Claire.  Posted a video link, fast forward to :33

http://www.wqow.com/story/29418675/2015/06/26/block-of-south-barstow-street-to-close-monday

Argg...my eyes!   :poke::-o :wow:

Never thought I'd see the day, even though I knew it was a possibility. :no:  A permissive-only FYA doghouse no less.

Can't say I am shocked that Eau Claire did it, as it seems like they've taken over the cutting edge crown for traffic-related items in Wisconsin. One of the first to use Clearview for SNSs, first SPUI, one of the first multilane roundabouts (many of the sign plates from that one made it into the FDM), in the runnings for the first FYA installation (IIRC, Madison or Appleton barely edged them out), first to try the reflective yellow borders around signals, and first to have a dual left turn lane that doesn't operate as protected only.

Appleton has been using Clearview blades since late 2012.

Appleton also had the first FYA in the state, at Midway Rd (Calumet County 'AP')/Telulah Ave on the City's southeast side.

Mike

DaBigE

Quote from: Big John on June 27, 2015, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 27, 2015, 06:25:32 PM


Front-side? Are you referring to the second FYA signal face for the movement? If so, it's probably on the far-side left pole that's hidden by the trees from that camera angle.
Can't see what is on the left pole behind the tree, but the 2 on the right side show no front side "stop bar" signal heads, something almost every signalized intersection in Wisconsin has.

Don't know how I missed that signal not being there.  :pan:  Based on a ITE conference I attended a few years back, it was announced that the near-side (stop-bar) signal would be optional. Apparently Eau Claire has decided to exercise that option (first ones in WI?).

Quote from: Roadguy on June 27, 2015, 10:15:46 PM
The only reason Wisconsin had the near right signal head was because if your overheard trombone arm got knocked down (your overhead signal head and far right signal head got knocked down), it only left the stop bar installation and far left signal head for many of the installations.

Not entirely true. WisDOT installations rarely had a signal mounted on the vertical pole of a trombone arm installation (at least facing in the same direction as the trombone arm signal. However, mounting a vertical signal on the trombone arm support has been a standard installation in many municipalities, Appleton  being one of them, IIRC. An older WisDOT installation would have included a stop-bar signal, one mounted on the far right on a trombone arm, and one mounted on the far left (mounted behind the stop-bar signal for the opposing direction), or in the median, if one was present.

I don't see the stop-bar signal going the way of the do-do anytime soon, as that pole is a convenient place to mount at least one of the pedestrian signals. As long as you got a pole there, you might as well include a vehicular signal as well.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

DaBigE

Quote from: mgk920 on June 27, 2015, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 27, 2015, 06:25:32 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 27, 2015, 05:11:13 PM
It looks like the first doghouse style traffic signals were installed in Eau Claire.  Posted a video link, fast forward to :33

http://www.wqow.com/story/29418675/2015/06/26/block-of-south-barstow-street-to-close-monday

Argg...my eyes!   :poke::-o :wow:

Never thought I'd see the day, even though I knew it was a possibility. :no:  A permissive-only FYA doghouse no less.

Can't say I am shocked that Eau Claire did it, as it seems like they've taken over the cutting edge crown for traffic-related items in Wisconsin. One of the first to use Clearview for SNSs, first SPUI, one of the first multilane roundabouts (many of the sign plates from that one made it into the FDM), in the runnings for the first FYA installation (IIRC, Madison or Appleton barely edged them out), first to try the reflective yellow borders around signals, and first to have a dual left turn lane that doesn't operate as protected only.

Appleton has been using Clearview blades since late 2012.

Appleton also had the first FYA in the state, at Midway Rd (Calumet County 'AP')/Telulah Ave on the City's southeast side.

Mike

I would have sworn someone said the one near MATC on Anderson St in Madison beat Appleton out.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

DaBigE

I do [hate to] have to admit that the doghouse looks like it makes for a "cleaner" installation than the 5-head tower. The doghouse probably has wind loading benefits as well.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister



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