Wisconsin notes

[on_wisconsin]

The Governor proposes new WisDOT HQ

...
New Transportation building

The largest single project is the $196.6 million replacement of the 368,100-square-foot Department of Transportation headquarters on Sheboygan Avenue. The proposal calls for construction of a 600,000-square-foot building and a 1,500-space parking garage on the 21-acre site, much of which is taken up by large surface parking lots. Any excess land would be sold to help pay for the project, according to a Department of Administration summary.

The plan also calls for the state Department of Employee Trust Funds to move its 180 employees from the Badger Road State Office Building to the new facility. The old building and land at the corner of Badger Road and Park Street would likely be sold to lower the overall cost of the Hill Farms project, DOA spokeswoman Stephanie Marquis said.

Rep. Gordon Hintz, D-Oshkosh, admitted the project could generate "sticker shock" but said continuing to spend millions maintaining the 49-year-old hill Farms complex doesn't make sense. State officials estimate it needs $34 million in upgrades in the next few years to improve accessibility, air quality and heating and cooling systems. Complete renovation could run $142 million.

"Any future dollar spent on the existing building would be a dollar down the drain," Hintz said.
...
Wisconsin State Journal- http://bit.ly/15y73ji

[DaBigE]

As one who has had the [displeasure] of working out of that place on quite a few occasions, a BIG standing  to this news. Can I bring a sledgehammer when it's demo time??

[agentsteel53]

is that a photo of the current one, or a mockup of the new one?

in any case, that building looks very 1960s Eastern Europe.

[SEWIGuy]

is that a photo of the current one, or a mockup of the new one?

in any case, that building looks very 1960s Eastern Europe.

That's the current one.  Built in 1964!

http://www.doa.state.wi.us/subcategory.asp?linksubcatid=112&locid=4

My son lives pretty much right across the street from that building.

[mgk920]

I like the 'Commie block' reference to it!



That thing towers over the nearby major intersection and yes, reminds one very much of some of the worst that the 20th century foisted upon the World.

BTW, that is what is referred to when the words 'Hill Farms' are mentioned in discussions regarding transport in Wisconsin.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

The problem with a lot of those buildings built in the 1960s is that they are ridiculously hard to renovate and retrofit.  Furthermore the State of Wisconsin built buildings back then that were supposed to have a usable life of 100 years, so they are solidly built, but very costly and no one back then had a clue how space needed to be utilized in 100 years.

[triplemultiplex]

It's construction season in Wisconsin again.
The Wausau area enters it's 10th year of continuous freeway construction with two projects on I-39/US 51 and one west of town on WI 29.

All traffic is currently in the NB lanes over the Wisconsin River while the SB bridge is replaced.  Pretty straightforward.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/ncregion/39/index.htm

The more interesting US 51 project is at the other end of BUS 51 where construction just started to reconfigure the current split diamond interchange into a diamond interchange at Bus 51/CTH K and a half diamond (facing south) at CTH U.  Just yesterday, the CTH U overpass was demolished, eliminating the last sub-standard vertical clearance on the corridor.
The ramp terminals at Bus 51 will be roundabouts but during construction, temporary traffic signals have been installed.  This is interesting because these junctions were previously unsignalized.
This project will also finally replace the last stretch of bone-jarring pavement on US 51 and/or I-39 in the area. (The original concrete c. 1963 is still in use currently.)
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/ncregion/51uk/

Finally, we've got the almost-freeway conversion of WI 29 out to Marathon City.  (WisDOT is leaving 1 RIRO on the WB lanes.)  While I drove the US 51 projects recently, I didn't get out on 29 to see how that was going, but they should be going at the new interchange for CTH O.  This stretch of expressway previously had a paved center left turn lane median and a 55 mph speed limit.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/ncregion/29107o/index.htm

[triplemultiplex]

Hey, when did WisDOT do this?
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=46.21298,-91.79802&z=15&t=S

The SB carriageway on US 53 by Halfway Lake in southern Douglas County has been relocated to follow the NB carriageway further east of the lake.  You can see the obliterated r/w of the old, straight carriageway that was the original 2 lane US 53.
I did not know this was happening and I follow WisDOT projects pretty closely.

[hobsini2]

Better question is why was it not done when the NB lanes were moved?

[triplemultiplex]

I'm guessing it was money since there are several stretches where the old 2 lane highway was not rebuilt after construction of the new carriageway.  This was one of 'em.

Another 'stealth project' on US 53 seems to be construction of an interchange at Haugen.  Reading WisDOT's corridor preservation study for US 53, it is not obvious in any way that this interchange is being built right now.  There's just one sentence on the region's weekly construction update.

[mgk920]

I'm guessing it was money since there are several stretches where the old 2 lane highway was not rebuilt after construction of the new carriageway.  This was one of 'em.

Another 'stealth project' on US 53 seems to be construction of an interchange at Haugen.  Reading WisDOT's corridor preservation study for US 53, it is not obvious in any way that this interchange is being built right now.  There's just one sentence on the region's weekly construction update.

I've been aware of that one since last year.  WisDOT is also seriously studying full freeway upgrades for US 53's Spooner bypass.

Mike

[mgk920]

I stopped in at the WisDOT PIM for upgrades to US 10 and WI 114 in the SE Appleton area, from WI 441 to just short of the WI 114 east split yesterday (Wed 2013-05-15) evening.

-The discussion was about simple upgrades to the existing roadways in response to the rapid urbanization of the far northwestern part of Calumet County - that area, especially the part of the county west of about County 'N', is fast filling in and will likely be built out (assuming current zoning) within the planning window for this project.  WisDOT says that that part of US 10 is now functioning just fine with its current design, but will be failing assuming that urban buildout.

-The preferred plan for this roadway is a rework as a more major urban-suburban style major street with a raised median and intersection upgrades (likely roundabouts) at several key intersections, especially at US 10's west split with WI 114 at the Calumet-Winnebago County line (this is the south end of Oneida St in Appleton).  An idea of how busy US 10 at that intersection is likely to become by about 2030-2035?  The signalized intersection option shown has THREE left turn lanes to handle the EB US 10 turn there.



-A pedestrian-bicycle path is included along the south side of US 10/WI 114, an idea that I strongly support.  The existing Lake Winnebago north shore area is full of residences that are now only, in a practical sense, accessible via car from a series of mostly non-connecting private access roadways that branch off of that part of US 10/WI 114.  (These are called the 'Fire Lanes' - Fire Lane 2 through Fire Lane 13, with the numbers increasing as one travels eastward.  'Fire Lane 1' is the south end of Oneida St.)  This path MAY be built sooner than the US 10/WI 114 ugrades by local governments (I hope that it will be).

-I brought up the issue of 'US Bicycle Routes' that was recently discussed elsewhere and that (assuming that I read AASHTO's list correctly) IMHO, this would be a good link on the USBR 20 corridor.  This path would be an extension of an existing path on the Winnebago County side of WI 114 (called the 'Friendship Trail') that currently continues westward through Menasha, across Little Lake Butts des Morts on a very interesting abandoned railroad bridge, westward along the US 10 freeway to the Winchester area and is ultimately planned to continue on roughly along US 10 to Stevens Point.  A couple of the local planning officials who I mentioned that to were very interested in that point.

-Actual construction is many years away, likely not until well into the 2020s, but when funding becomes available and that happens, it will be truly 'shovel ready' as all of the EIS and other related red tape will already be out of the way by then.  The WisDOT guys were visibly happy when they were bringing up that point.

-I did pass along my thoughts for US 10 ultimately being relocated off of that current routing west of Forest Junction to instead be rerouted to go past Hollandtown and feed into and connect to WI 441 freeway via County 'CE' (E College Ave).  They seemed interested.

-Major 'big shovel' six-lane upgrades to the Winnebago County part of the US 10/WI 441 freeway (US(I)-41, interchange 134 to Oneida St) are still on track for the 2016-2019 timeframe, but could be moved up depending on funding.

-Q) Will WisDOT be applying to AASHTO for 'promotion' of the WI 441 freeway to a full 3DI once that work is done?  A) A definite . . . maybe.  WisDOT is still not 100% sure that US 41 itself will be promoted - if US 41's current heavier than interstate-standard truck weight limit is not grandfathered in (the decision is pending), its pending promotion to 'I-41' could very well be *CANCELLED* and, if so, there would be no reason to apply for the same for WI 441.  Ditto for any similar 'promotion' for WI 172 in the Green Bay area.

 

Stay tuned.

Mike

[Jordanah1]

What about a new alignment freeway for US 10 coming out of 441 at the curve just south of KK, running southeast towards the county N/US 10 roundabout. The US 10 freeway would continue along the current corridor for much of the way towards manitowoc.

[mgk920]

What about a new alignment freeway for US 10 coming out of 441 at the curve just south of KK, running southeast towards the county N/US 10 roundabout. The US 10 freeway would continue along the current corridor for much of the way towards manitowoc.

That would have been quite appropriate - had it been laid out and finalized in the late 1970s or early 1980s, long before WI 441 was built in the early 1990s.  OTOH, in 2013, there are a Walmart*, Time-Warner Cable call center, industrial park and numerous residential neighborhoods in the way.

The only corridor left for a potential US 10 reroute is County 'CE'.

-----------------

One of the planning alternates in the 1970s and early 1980s for what became WI 441 was a southerly routing that would have headed slightly southeastward and then eastward from the Little Lake Butte des Morts bridge along 9th St and modern-day US 10/WI 114 to Lake Park Rd, where it would have split with a directional 'Y' interchange.  The north leg would have followed Lake Park Rd to where the freeway is now, feeding into its current routing with an 'S' curve where it now crosses Lake Park Rd.  The east leg would have continued eastward as modern-day US 10/WI 114.

IMHO, that option would have been far and away the best from a traffic flow and utility standpoint, but it was also far and away the most expensive option - it would have use the most concrete and had the most ROW-acquisition expense - among other things requiring taking a block-wide swath of houses across Menasha's north side.  The fact that much of the ROW for the existing freeway was already acquired by then was also a factor.

Mike

[colinstu]

The 25th St-70th St I-94 corridor project had some PIMs recently. I visited it, materials are available for viewing here: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm

*E2 is the way to go IMO. Everyone can get to/from 27th st directly with no St Paul / 25th St BS. Also, 35th st on/off ramps are braided and aren't split-diamond like.
*S1 is my pick here too. Surprised there were only two designs here... but they're both good / interesting. S1 sure is huge looking... but it's only 2-3 levels it looks like vs. a more expensive 4+ level design.
*C2 or C1 are decent, better than C3 anyways. If I had to pick one, C2.
*W2 or W4 are the only acceptable ones in accordance to the idea that C3 isn't acceptable. W2 and W4 are both great, W4 would result in less residential impacts, but W2 would result in a tight diamond with 70th st instead of the split 68-70th st diamond... which I like better... screw it, 70th st only would be better, so W2 wins.

3.1MB Composition of my choices:

[Revive 755]

 I though US 41 was getting rerouted/hidden as part of the interstate conversion; I would have expected WisDOT to show the new numbering.

The single point option is certainly interesting with the flyovers for EB to NB and WB to SB.

[GeekJedi]

Hmmm.  341 becomes "unhidden" in these plans...

[Big John]

I though US 41 was getting rerouted/hidden as part of the interstate conversion; I would have expected WisDOT to show the new numbering.

Looked like those were just for the public information so they could reference what is there now.  Exit numbers were also blank.  Since the replacement numbering of 41 north is not known they went that way instead.

[colinstu]

Interesting to think once US-41 is rerouted around I-894 that WI-341 will remain a relic/remembrance of the past.

[Jordanah1]

What about a new alignment freeway for US 10 coming out of 441 at the curve just south of KK, running southeast towards the county N/US 10 roundabout. The US 10 freeway would continue along the current corridor for much of the way towards manitowoc.

That would have been quite appropriate - had it been laid out and finalized in the late 1970s or early 1980s, long before WI 441 was built in the early 1990s.  OTOH, in 2013, there are a Walmart*, Time-Warner Cable call center, industrial park and numerous residential neighborhoods in the way.

The only corridor left for a potential US 10 reroute is County 'CE'.

-----------------

One of the planning alternates in the 1970s and early 1980s for what became WI 441 was a southerly routing that would have headed slightly southeastward and then eastward from the Little Lake Butte des Morts bridge along 9th St and modern-day US 10/WI 114 to Lake Park Rd, where it would have split with a directional 'Y' interchange.  The north leg would have followed Lake Park Rd to where the freeway is now, feeding into its current routing with an 'S' curve where it now crosses Lake Park Rd.  The east leg would have continued eastward as modern-day US 10/WI 114.

IMHO, that option would have been far and away the best from a traffic flow and utility standpoint, but it was also far and away the most expensive option - it would have use the most concrete and had the most ROW-acquisition expense - among other things requiring taking a block-wide swath of houses across Menasha's north side.  The fact that much of the ROW for the existing freeway was already acquired by then was also a factor.

Mike

I think it can be done, avoiding the neighborhoods and the Wal-Mart, there would be few houses in fact that would need to come down. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90524991@N03/8803832435/
I also included something like a 4-lane/ shared left turn lane setup for WI114 going south, and bypassing Sherwood before narrowing back down to two lanes after a partial Y-interchange at WI55/WI114. this is just a thought I had while drawing this up, knowing how difficult it can be at times to travel around for WIAA games and stuff, and seeing the subdivisions there growing rapidly. few if any houses or businesses would need to be removed. the actual US10 corridor itself obviously is too wide, I did that more to illustrate the location rather than the logistics.

[mgk920]

What about a new alignment freeway for US 10 coming out of 441 at the curve just south of KK, running southeast towards the county N/US 10 roundabout. The US 10 freeway would continue along the current corridor for much of the way towards manitowoc.

That would have been quite appropriate - had it been laid out and finalized in the late 1970s or early 1980s, long before WI 441 was built in the early 1990s.  OTOH, in 2013, there are a Walmart*, Time-Warner Cable call center, industrial park and numerous residential neighborhoods in the way.

The only corridor left for a potential US 10 reroute is County 'CE'.

-----------------

One of the planning alternates in the 1970s and early 1980s for what became WI 441 was a southerly routing that would have headed slightly southeastward and then eastward from the Little Lake Butte des Morts bridge along 9th St and modern-day US 10/WI 114 to Lake Park Rd, where it would have split with a directional 'Y' interchange.  The north leg would have followed Lake Park Rd to where the freeway is now, feeding into its current routing with an 'S' curve where it now crosses Lake Park Rd.  The east leg would have continued eastward as modern-day US 10/WI 114.

IMHO, that option would have been far and away the best from a traffic flow and utility standpoint, but it was also far and away the most expensive option - it would have use the most concrete and had the most ROW-acquisition expense - among other things requiring taking a block-wide swath of houses across Menasha's north side.  The fact that much of the ROW for the existing freeway was already acquired by then was also a factor.

Mike

I think it can be done, avoiding the neighborhoods and the Wal-Mart, there would be few houses in fact that would need to come down. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90524991@N03/8803832435/
I also included something like a 4-lane/ shared left turn lane setup for WI114 going south, and bypassing Sherwood before narrowing back down to two lanes after a partial Y-interchange at WI55/WI114. this is just a thought I had while drawing this up, knowing how difficult it can be at times to travel around for WIAA games and stuff, and seeing the subdivisions there growing rapidly. few if any houses or businesses would need to be removed. the actual US10 corridor itself obviously is too wide, I did that more to illustrate the location rather than the logistics.

What you have drawn will also require taking the Rassmusson College Appleton school as well as Time-Warner's new call center.  Both are fairly substantial buildings that are located on the southeast side of WI 441 there, in addition to taking a corridor through a major portion of the City of Appleton's southeast Business Park.

Mike

[Jordanah1]

I put mine through so Rasmussen wasn't impacted, but im not an engineer, so I don't know what exactly would be required there in terms of space and angles. if your talking about a free-flow interchange at Cty CE, then how could you possibly fit that there with so many businesses there? if you built something similar to the WI 29 project in green bay, I count at least 10 businesses/buildings that would nee to go if the new college ave. would be routed on the north side of the new freeway on the current alignment, and that's just assuming you end with a intersection/roundabout at Eisenhower drive. there would be no room for any interchanges until the current one at Washington st. plus there would be many more buildings torn down near the interchange to make room for the new ramps. beyond that, the next possible location along CE for an interchange that would have minimal impacts on surrounding subdivisions would be at military road. all of this is irrelevant however if your NOT talking about a freeway, obviously CE would then be the clear choice if you are talking about 4-lanes to Manitowoc without limited access. so my above statements are in regards only to a full freeway to Manitowoc.

[mgk920]

This is starting to delve into the 'fantasy/fictional' highway realm, but I have played around with that area off and on over the past few years and found that it is likely possible to do a free-flow connection at WI 441/College Ave needing only some of the 'throwaway' retail and FF buildings in the SE quadrant closest to the interchange.  This would involve piggybacking the free-flow part of the interchange over most of the existing diamond, rerouting the College Ave street east of WI 441 to follow the south frontage/access road eastward to Railroad St, upgrading the existing County 'CE' eastward past Railroad St with grade separations at Eisenhower Dr and Railroad St and WB off/EB on feeder ramps on the east side of Railroad St.

From there eastward is would be a very straightforward upgrade of an existing four-lane controlled-access suburban arterial to a full freeway with SPUIs and/or 'dogbone' roundabouts at the needed narrow ROW interchanges.  A working example of what I am thinking about is Keystone Parkway in Carmel, IN.

East of Military Rd east of Kaukauna, I'm envisioning a 'Super Two' freeway/expressway to continue on past Hollandtown and on to the east side of Forest Junction (where it would rejoin existing US 10) on an upgradable new four-lane ROW.

The part to make the connections with WI 441 south of College Ave would be a tight fit within the current ROW, but I also consider it to be doable with minor, if any, ROW acquisition needed.

Mike

[hobsini2]

The 25th St-70th St I-94 corridor project had some PIMs recently. I visited it, materials are available for viewing here: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm

*E2 is the way to go IMO. Everyone can get to/from 27th st directly with no St Paul / 25th St BS. Also, 35th st on/off ramps are braided and aren't split-diamond like.
*S1 is my pick here too. Surprised there were only two designs here... but they're both good / interesting. S1 sure is huge looking... but it's only 2-3 levels it looks like vs. a more expensive 4+ level design.
*C2 or C1 are decent, better than C3 anyways. If I had to pick one, C2.
*W2 or W4 are the only acceptable ones in accordance to the idea that C3 isn't acceptable. W2 and W4 are both great, W4 would result in less residential impacts, but W2 would result in a tight diamond with 70th st instead of the split 68-70th st diamond... which I like better... screw it, 70th st only would be better, so W2 wins.

3.1MB Composition of my choices:

Refresh my memory. To get to the Casino from 94, don't you have to exit on to St Paul Ave? By doing it the way you show, you could not exit anymore at St Paul and 27th Ave would have no access to it either.  I think you might have a problem with the Casino traffic. Just saying.

[colinstu]

Refresh my memory. To get to the Casino from 94, don't you have to exit on to St Paul Ave? By doing it the way you show, you could not exit anymore at St Paul and 27th Ave would have no access to it either.  I think you might have a problem with the Casino traffic. Just saying.

You're saying that like the Casino gets a buttload of traffic.

Regardless, 27th St exit -> Clybourn St -> 16th St -> Casino -OR- 27th St exit -> St Paul -> Emmber Lane -> Canal St -> Casino... it's barely harder and there's still access.