California's original numbering plan

[Quillz]

Okay, so from what I understand, California was basically divided into NorCal and SoCal, and then the original route numbers were assigned two at a time to each part of the state. So, 1 and 2 went to SoCal, the original 3 and 4 went to NorCal, etc.

My question is, if this pattern was maintained consistently, then some of the route numbers don't seem to line up properly. For example, both 26 and 70 would have been assigned to SoCal, yet both are located more in NorCal. (I'm quite sure, though, that the modern CA-70 is from 1964.) CA-57, for example, makes sense in that by following the scheme, it should be in SoCal, which it is, but CA-65, which should also be in SoCal, is another highway that is mostly in NorCal.

So, the highway numbers that seem out of place, are they all post-1964? I made a table and most of the original 99 numbers do seem to line up as they should (at least, the ones that still exist to the present day), while only a few don't seem quite right. There are some other numbers that don't work (97 should be in SoCal), but obviously are excluded because they have been assigned to a more prominent highway network.

[Quillz]

And I suppose as a follow-up question, does anyone know where the dividing point was to separate SoCal from NorCal? Some say a geographical definition is everything north of the Tehachapi Mountains, while politically it's usually considered everything north of Monterey, Tulare, Kings and Inyo Counties.

[agentsteel53]

For example, both 26 and 70 would have been assigned to SoCal,

original bear 26 is under I-10.  Original 70 was US-70. 

CA-57, for example, makes sense in that by following the scheme, it should be in SoCal,

57 is a fairly new designation.  It would have been in Norcal.  55 is in Socal.

which it is, but CA-65, which should also be in SoCal, is another highway that is mostly in NorCal.

65 is correctly located; your arithmetic is off a bit!

So, the highway numbers that seem out of place, are they all post-1964?

mostly, yes.  At least post-1950 or so.

[NE2]

I wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_California%27s_state_highway_system and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_highways_in_California_(pre-1964)#Sign_routes (yes, some numbers were skipped) some time ago, so it should still be mostly fine. I believe the ACSC/CSAA division was used: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ACSC_CSAA.svg

[Quillz]

On a similar note, how were north-south highways that ran within the counties that were used as borders for NorCal/SoCal terminated? Did they physically terminate at another highway, or would they just continue to the north or south as another highway number?

[NE2]

Figure it out yourself.

[Quillz]

Well, that's what I've tried to do based on the routes that I know continue to exist from the original 1930s numbering scheme, although many have changed since then. I actually had an old route map at some point, but I have no idea what became of it.

I do recall Route 1 and Route 3 either intersecting or simply transitioning, so I think there was a mere number change, but I can't recall for sure. Obviously, west-east routes are easier because only a handful would run diagonal.

[roadfro]

Figure it out yourself.

I didn't see the need to be rude...

[NE2]

Well, that's what I've tried to do based on the routes that I know continue to exist from the original 1930s numbering scheme, although many have changed since then.

Did you use the list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_highways_in_California_(pre-1964)#Sign_routes ? You can also use the individual entries at http://cahighways.org/state.html .

[agentsteel53]

On a similar note, how were north-south highways that ran within the counties that were used as borders for NorCal/SoCal terminated? Did they physically terminate at another highway, or would they just continue to the north or south as another highway number?

you mean, if a road existed in both ACSC and CSAA jurisdiction, would it change number?  No.  1 ran into ACSC-land at San Luis Obispo and had SoCal shields, while 7 ran all the way from the Oregon line in Modoc County down to Orange County and therefore both CSAA and ACSC bear 7s were made. 

3 I believe was entirely confined to SoCal.  It started in Ventura, no?

[Quillz]

Well, that's what I've tried to do based on the routes that I know continue to exist from the original 1930s numbering scheme, although many have changed since then.

Did you use the list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_highways_in_California_(pre-1964)#Sign_routes ? You can also use the individual entries at http://cahighways.org/state.html .

Well, yes, but I'm not clear on exactly how these routes terminated. CA-1, for example, once ran from Sausalito to the Oregon state line. I guess what I was curious about was how this worked... Did they force CA-1 to end at another state highway, or did the number simply end at the Marin County line, and the road to the south would be a new number?

I only ask because some other states do something similar to this and was wondering if California was the same.

[Quillz]

On a similar note, how were north-south highways that ran within the counties that were used as borders for NorCal/SoCal terminated? Did they physically terminate at another highway, or would they just continue to the north or south as another highway number?

you mean, if a road existed in both ACSC and CSAA jurisdiction, would it change number?  No.  1 ran into ACSC-land at San Luis Obispo and had SoCal shields, while 7 ran all the way from the Oregon line in Modoc County down to Orange County and therefore both CSAA and ACSC bear 7s were made. 

3 I believe was entirely confined to SoCal.  It started in Ventura, no?

Okay, so then routes were not strictly confined to NorCal or SoCal, and thus it was more like a recommendation?

[agentsteel53]

Okay, so then routes were not strictly confined to NorCal or SoCal, and thus it was more like a recommendation?

I believe only those crossed the jurisdiction line.  Wait, 33 as well, now that I think about it.  The main north-south corridors were served by US-99 and US-101.  Indeed, later US-395 became a major north-south corridor, replacing bear 7 (partly), bear 95 (entirely), and bear 71 (partly).

[J N Winkler]

I only ask because some other states do something similar to this and was wondering if California was the same.

What other states do this?

[NE2]

Well, yes, but I'm not clear on exactly how these routes terminated. CA-1, for example, once ran from Sausalito to the Oregon state line. I guess what I was curious about was how this worked... Did they force CA-1 to end at another state highway, or did the number simply end at the Marin County line, and the road to the south would be a new number?

SR 1 never ended at Sausalito. When defined in 1934, it began at Las Cruces: http://www.gbcnet.com/roads/ca_routes_1934.html

[Quillz]

Well, yes, but I'm not clear on exactly how these routes terminated. CA-1, for example, once ran from Sausalito to the Oregon state line. I guess what I was curious about was how this worked... Did they force CA-1 to end at another state highway, or did the number simply end at the Marin County line, and the road to the south would be a new number?

SR 1 never ended at Sausalito. When defined in 1934, it began at Las Cruces: http://www.gbcnet.com/roads/ca_routes_1934.html

This was actually the document I had earlier and lost. Thanks for posting it again.

[Alps]

I only ask because some other states do something similar to this and was wondering if California was the same.

What other states do this?

Only the ones in Fictional Highways.

[Quillz]

I only ask because some other states do something similar to this and was wondering if California was the same.

What other states do this?

Nevada uses a numbering system where route numbers are assigned based on the alphabetical order of their counties and then those routes are generally (not always) confined to each county. I saw that as a very loose parallel to the old California system which tried to maintain numbered routes within the counties of either NorCal or SoCal.

[roadfro]

Nevada uses a numbering system where route numbers are assigned based on the alphabetical order of their counties and then those routes are generally (not always) confined to each county. <<snip>>

More correctly, Nevada primary routes (100s, 200s, 300s and 400s) and secondary routes (700s & 800s) are assigned in numeric clusters based on alphabetic order of county. Urban and small-urban routes (500s & 600s) are assigned in similar clusters based on alphabetic order of the urban area (i.e. city) they serve.

In rural Nevada, many of the primary routes cross county lines and thus do not follow the pattern 100%. Most of the time when a numbered route crosses county lines, the number tends to be based on which county has more highway mileage. The assignment of these numbers goes back to the Federal Aid Highway system renumbering in 1976, which has been detailed more thoroughly in a previous thread.

[cahwyguy]

Coming into here for my bi-monthly visit. Regarding this, I'll note you can see the pattern quite clearly at http://www.cahighways.org/pre-inst.html

[kaothinterceptor]

I only ask because some other states do something similar to this and was wondering if California was the same.

What other states do this?

Only the ones in Fictional Highways.

So Florida is a fictional state because they use low numbers in the Jacksonville area and high numbers in the Panhandle and in Miami-Dade county?

[NE2]

No. It's a fictional state because it alternates between north and south like California. SR 2 is in the north, SR 4 in the south, SR 6 in the north, and so on.


Oh wait. No it's not. You have no idea what you're talking about, Mr. Interceptor.

[Quillz]

I only ask because some other states do something similar to this and was wondering if California was the same.

What other states do this?

Only the ones in Fictional Highways.

So Florida is a fictional state because they use low numbers in the Jacksonville area and high numbers in the Panhandle and in Miami-Dade county?

Florida's numbering system is a little different from California's, though. There are other topics on the forum pertaining to Florida that illustrate how that state's numbering system works.

[DTComposer]

For example, both 26 and 70 would have been assigned to SoCal,

original bear 26 is under I-10.  Original 70 was US-70. 

Actually, original bear 26 is Bolsa Avenue/1st Street (formerly Ocean Avenue) between PCH and I-5 (nee US-101). It fits in the original scheme as it ran parallel to and south of 22 (Garden Grove Blvd., later Garden Grove Freeway).

Mr. Faigin references his site above for a full reference, but the general idea is that routes were numbered by fours either west to east or north to south, with alternating numbers between NoCal and Socal. I haven't tried to parse together the whole thing, but here's some examples from the original 1930s numbering:

1: Cabrillo Highway
5: Skyline Boulevard
9: Big Basin Highway/Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road
13: Santa Cruz-San Jose-Oakland (later renumbered 17)
17: see above (not sure if the whole route was originally 13 then 17 or if sections were different at the beginning)
21: Warm Springs-Dublin-Martinez
25: San Lucas-Hollister-Gilroy
29: Vallejo-Napa-Clear Lake
33: West Side Highway
It's not perfect, and several routes cross each other, but a general pattern is there.

Now in SoCal (and E-W instead of N-S):
2: Santa Monica-Glendale-Wrightwood
6: Santa Monica-Los Angeles-Santa Fe Springs
10: Westchester-Norwalk
14: Hermosa Beach-Yorba Linda
18: Lakewood-Corona-San Bernardino
22: Long Beach-Santa Ana
26: Seal Beach-Santa Ana

[agentsteel53]

don't forget:

3 - what is current 1 from Ventura to Dana Point
7 - basically 405 to from Long Beach (and, initially, 6 to Bishop, 395 to Modoc County)
11 - what is now Pasadena and Harbor Fwys
15 - Atlantic Blvd - now 710 fwy
19 - where it always has been
23 - okay, this one is well off to the west but it hasn't moved
27 - even further west
31 - jumps inland, now under I-15 around Norco
35 - basically 605
39 - same as it is today