Turn left on to Hawthorne Blvd from Rosecrans Ave in Hawthorne Ca

[Tom89t]

One problem in Hawthorne Ca is when drivers try to turn left on Hawthorne Blvd from Rosecrans Ave they sometimes get confuse with the mid block overhead traffic signal and the far side  programmable traffic signal. The programmable one is a five light protect/permissive. when they are both green, drivers turn left after they yield to traffic and pedestrians. When the mid block overhead signal changes to red and the far side pv signal gives a green arrow for traffic turn left. Sometime drivers hang back when trying to turn left because they cannot the far side signals until they are in the mid block. There should be a  overhead five light signal in the mid block or non pv  five light traffic signals on the far side of intersection. To get an idea of what I am talk about go to google maps and type in Hawthorne Blvd and Rosecrans Ave.    

[WolfGuy100]

Uh, got Google Street View of it?

[Scott5114]

You might want to use more specific thread titles when posting about local intersections...I couldn't have begun to guess where "Hawthorne Blvd" or "Rosecrans Ave" was without reading the rest of your post. Using descriptive titles helps readers decide whether they could contribute to the thread or if it's something they're interested in.

[Tom89t]

Well, sorry I thought some of you guys lived in Hawthorne Ca. I can't post google streetview on my I pod touch.

[rickmastfan67]

Well, sorry I thought some of you guys lived in Hawthorne Ca. I can't post google streetview on my I pod touch.

You could at least post a link to the intersection on the Maps view in Google.

Anyways, I think this is the intersection he's talking about: http://g.co/maps/jbkjj

[Tom89t]

Well , I will remember that in the future.

[Tom89t]

http://g.co/maps/jbkjj

[Scott5114]

Well, sorry I thought some of you guys lived in Hawthorne Ca. I can't post google streetview on my I pod touch.

It's a safe bet that nobody on this forum lives in Hawthorne, CA. Our membership is scattered far across North America. We even have members from as far away as the Netherlands and the UK.

[roadfro]

Due to the width of the intersection and the left turn pseudo-storage that appears to be in the middle of the intersection, this could be a purposeful design. I.e. the far side 5-section programmable signal head (why call it "pv"...?) gives a green arrow after the thru traffic turns red that is visible only to the vehicles in the middle of the intersection in order to clear left turn vehicles that would otherwise be stuck in the middle.

It's hard to tell without a clear view and actually being able to see the signal in operation...

[The High Plains Traveler]

Due to the width of the intersection and the left turn pseudo-storage that appears to be in the middle of the intersection, this could be a purposeful design. I.e. the far side 5-section programmable signal head (why call it "pv"...?) gives a green arrow after the thru traffic turns red that is visible only to the vehicles in the middle of the intersection in order to clear left turn vehicles that would otherwise be stuck in the middle.

It's hard to tell without a clear view and actually being able to see the signal in operation...

Damn, that's an old signal though it's obviously been added to. The mast arms on Hawthorne have the horizontal supports above the arm (not sure what this paleolithic design is called). And, for the record, I'm "from" the L.A. area, if you go back to the Nixon administration, so I've been through this intersection though probably not when it was in this configuration. Explains my driving habits, which frighten many people in Pueblo, Colorado.

[Alps]

BACK ON TOPIC IT NEVER HAPPENED

[roadfro]

Damn, that's an old signal though it's obviously been added to. The mast arms on Hawthorne have the horizontal supports above the arm (not sure what this paleolithic design is called).

Ah, didn't notice that before... the double guy-wire traffic signal arms are rarely used in new installations anymore. Particularly because the mast arm only supports one signal head--given one signal head per lane guidance, there's very few cases where only one overhead signal head would be sufficient.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Damn, that's an old signal though it's obviously been added to. The mast arms on Hawthorne have the horizontal supports above the arm (not sure what this paleolithic design is called).

Ah, didn't notice that before... the double guy-wire traffic signal arms are rarely used in new installations anymore. Particularly because the mast arm only supports one signal head--given one signal head per lane guidance, there's very few cases where only one overhead signal head would be sufficient.

Yes, I think California stopped installing those not long after the 12-12-12 head on the mast arm became standard and they introduced the monotube mast arm. Obviously not suitable for multiple heads. I think "rarely" in your response is more properly "never" (temporary installations are a possible exception), since I haven't seen a newer version of that in years - at least in the western states. EDIT: I stand corrected - it looks as if much newer instances of these exist, probably installed by local governments. In thinking about it, you might find a temporary signal on a wood pole with a mast arm mounted that way.

[myosh_tino]

Damn, that's an old signal though it's obviously been added to. The mast arms on Hawthorne have the horizontal supports above the arm (not sure what this paleolithic design is called).

Ah, didn't notice that before... the double guy-wire traffic signal arms are rarely used in new installations anymore. Particularly because the mast arm only supports one signal head--given one signal head per lane guidance, there's very few cases where only one overhead signal head would be sufficient.

Here's a double guy-wire signal arm near where I live...


Regarding the signal-head-per-lane guidance, is that for overhead signals on the mast arm or do pole-mounted signals count.  If that guidance is for overhead signals, then almost all of the signals on Stevens Creek Blvd have only one overhead signal for 3 lanes.

Also note the non-compliant street name sign that boldly uses Bookman instead of an FHWA font.  These are relatively new so they won't be due for replacement for quite a while.

[Tom89t]

How do you post google maps links on these forums? I am having trouble with posting links.

[Alps]

That last one was a screen capture that someone saved to their own site.

[myosh_tino]

How do you post google maps links on these forums? I am having trouble with posting links.

Are you posting to these forums from an iPod Touch?

If you're using an iPod Touch, then you can't (believe me, I tried).  Get to a real computer connected to the internet and use the regular version of Google Maps then look for the link icon immediately to the left of the map.

Edit: A Google Maps link will look something like...
http://www.google.com/maps?ll=37.325943,-121.942749&spn=0.310139,0.476532&t=m&z=11&vpsrc=6

[roadfro]

Regarding the signal-head-per-lane guidance, is that for overhead signals on the mast arm or do pole-mounted signals count.  If that guidance is for overhead signals, then almost all of the signals on Stevens Creek Blvd have only one overhead signal for 3 lanes.

Signal per lane guidance is for overhead signals. I believe the MUTCD says the primary signal heads at an intersection should be installed overhead. Minimum requirements are two signal heads for the through/major movement, so the one signal head above and one pole mount as pictured above still meets minimum requirements.

[SignBridge]

For the record, double guy-wire signal arms (though antiquated and usually too short)are still the standard for TSL's in the five boroughs of New York City. Started in the 1960's and still in use. Go figure.

Ah, Hawthorne Blvd. in Torrance, Calif. One of my favorite roads in the L.A. area. Last I was there in 1997, still some of the double guy-wire arms in use, but gradually being replaced by the l-o-n-g bent monotube Calif. style arms. Did they repave the road yet? 

[Bigmikelakers]

It's a safe bet that nobody on this forum lives in Hawthorne, CA. Our membership is scattered far across North America. We even have members from as far away as the Netherlands and the UK.

I live really close to Hawthorne. The intersection he speaks is actually on the border of Hawthorne and Lawndale. I live in Lawndale. But yeah, people who even live in Southern California may not have a clue where these towns are.

As for the signal there, I know what you mean. I think they should use the same signal system a half mile south at Hawthorne Bl/Marine Ave in Lawndale. However, since Hawthorne/Rosecrans are on a city boundary, the county dept of transportation controls it so it may be a while before a left arrow is installed like the Marine Avene one.

To illustrate:
Hawthorne/Rosecrans
http://g.co/maps/33fye

Marine/Hawthorne
http://g.co/maps/2qzdf