AARoads Forum

Spun off from the "Telephone Numbers" thread.

Which method do you prefer for the institution of a new area code? Do you prefer a split, an overlay, or just don't care?

For me, I prefer an overlay. It eliminates the need for businesses to have to change their advertising materials, or for people to have to notify a bunch of people and places where they do business that they have a new number.

When the 606 area code in Kentucky split into 606 and 859, there was a pretty intense debate on which area should get the new code. An argument was made that 606 should remain in the eastern part of the state, because businesses there could not afford to make the change as easily as their counterparts in the Bluegrass area of the state. A reverse argument was made that there were more people and businesses in the new 859 area that would have to make the change, and it would be easier to make the change in the east.

I don't think that an overlay was ever considered. I would have preferred an overlay, but some said that it would require 10-digit-dialing for local calls instead of seven-digit dialing.

I used to prefer split, but I no longer have a strong opinion on the matter.

Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2023, 07:28:18 PM
I used to prefer split, but I no longer have a strong opinion on the matter.

I did too until recently. I can't see the 630 being split into 3 areas.
I think just overlaying now is the way to go.

I also used to prefer splits, but don't have a strong opinion anymore.

That said, since so many people are keeping their phone numbers when they move to different parts of the country, in hindsight I wish the system could have been arranged so that land lines and businesses (i.e., numbers that are tied to a geographic location) kept the "old" area codes (splitting as necessary), while personal mobile lines got the "new" area codes that could be assigned nationwide.

So in the Bay Area, for example, 415, 408, 510, and 707 could have been kept for land lines and businesses, with 650 and 925 held in reserve, while 628, 669, 369, and 341 could go into the nationwide pool for personal mobile lines. There's about 95 overlay codes currently in use; assuming about 7,500,000 usable numbers per code, that's over two mobile numbers for every person in the country. At current growth rates we'd need to add one overlay code about every two years, which seems reasonable.

Without moving, I've been through one split (301/410) and 2 overlays (240 and 227 added to 301; 443 and 667 added to 410). 10 digit dialing became mandatory with the 1991 split-formerly I could also call DC or NoVa using 7 digits. Much prefer overlays (added in 1991 and 2012), especially since 10 digit dialing was ingrained by then.

10 digit dialing has been ubiquitous in most large and mid-size metropolitan areas for years, and now in most rural areas too with the introduction of the 988 suicide hotline.

Personally, I like the geographic specificity that splits give you. I don't mind overlays when they're used in urban areas, but huge whole state overlays like 208/986 in Idaho do annoy me.

We got an overlay here a few years ago, but in reality, I don't actually dial any numbers, let alone 10. I just tell my cell phone to "call suchandsuch" and boom, there they are.

For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 04, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

I concur.  I really thought that West Virginia would never require another area code, but was even more surprised when Area Code 681 was set up as an overlay.  The main issue was that the entire state had adopted "The Three-Oh-Four" as a slogan that unified the Mountain State.

The overlays are less disruptive, for sure. As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

618 in Southern Illinois is getting an overlay of 730 in July 2023

I think 618 could have been split, mostly Metro East/IL suburban STL versus "the rest"  of more rural Southern Illinois, but that is not how the Illinois Commerce Commission (Illinois's Public Utility Regulator) has chosen to proceed

618 already has 10 digit dialing due to the "988"  suicide prevention hotline, so overlays aren't really that disruptive anymore

Back before cellphones and programmable phones were common, I preferred a split. But when they split ours, the local media raised a humongous stink. They thought it was the greatest injustice in the history of the world.

I liked the fact that Kansas received its new area codes in the 1990's through a split rather than an overlay (913 became 785 except outside the Kansas City area, 316 became 620 except in the Wichita area), as that preserved seven-digit local dialing when most people still used landlines.  I do accept that (as others note) things have changed, with widespread use of cellphones with programmable address books.

With more and more people using cell phones vs. Land-line phones, long-distance "toll" calls becoming a thing of the past, and more places requiring you to dial the area code (with or without the "1-"), it really doesn't matter much to me. 

Especially with cell phones.  Someone could have a cell phone with a California Area code number, but lives in New York.  Most phone plans pretty much treat all calls in the US as unlimited "local" calls.

I used to prefer splits but with cell phones, Google voice numbers, and the fact that people can keep a number when moving all over the country, it matters less.
Overlay codes are definitely best for like major cities. I live in Houston and have an 832 number. I really wish I had a 713 but those are extraordinarily now. I've had a 281 before but those are also rare now.
I refuse to ever have a number with the newest area code though. 346 is for recent transplants and not people like me who have been here for 15 years.
It used to be that 713 was for inside the 610 loop, and 281 outside of it. Then 713 was spread to inside the beltway. I think it's more or less still somewhat that way, with 832 and 346 being overlays. But then the Houston area also includes a lot of areas that are in the 936, 979, and 409 area codes too.

Quote from: bandit957 on January 04, 2023, 11:09:11 PM
Back before cellphones and programmable phones were common, I preferred a split. But when they split ours, the local media raised a humongous stink. They thought it was the greatest injustice in the history of the world.

The only time media would be in favor of something is when instructed to do so by the party editor belongs to.
Splits give people in new area code a short straw, now they have to explicitly change their contact information in many places, so overlay may be less disruptive and controversial. With area code becoming "where you lived in 2005 of at age of 14" thing, using area code for marketing and identity is becoming pointless anyway

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 04, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

In general, I agree with this. In principle, I like the idea of a split and of preserving seven-digit dialing, but in practice that's often impractical because it would result in such minuscule area code areas. When 571 was overlain on 703, that was the reason given–703 had already become much smaller when 540 was split off, and they decided they couldn't just keep shrinking the area.

The advantage to an overlay is that everyone can keep his current number(s).

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

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Quote from: davewiecking on January 04, 2023, 09:15:18 PM
10 digit dialing became mandatory with the 1991 split-formerly I could also call DC or NoVa using 7 digits.

Heh.  I was using 4-digit dialing in 1991.

Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Quote from: davewiecking on January 04, 2023, 09:15:18 PM
.... 10 digit dialing became mandatory with the 1991 split-formerly I could also call DC or NoVa using 7 digits. Much prefer overlays (added in 1991 and 2012), especially since 10 digit dialing was ingrained by then.

The requirement that you dial the area code to call DC or Virginia was a different issue not directly related to area code splits. That happened in 1990, about a year prior to the 301/410 split. The problem was that allowing local calls between 703, 202, and 301 without using the area code meant that an exchanged used in one area code could not be used in one of the others unless it were restricted to a long-distance location. For example, a 202-633-#### exchange meant that if there were a 703-633-####, it couldn't be in the DC area and would have to be assigned to someplace further away. Eliminating the ability to 7-digit dial across local area codes freed up the exchanges for local use, but it turned out to be a short-term solution because there was so much demand for new numbers and that's where further area code splits and overlays became necessary.

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Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Within the last few years the DC government has been running ad campaigns referring to the city as "the 202," which was kind of odd timing given that the city just got an overlay area code (771) in April 2021.

Apparently in southeast Virginia it's popular among certain demographics to call the area "the 757."

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

Unless they force everyone back to rotary phones, I don't care

In my 40+ years of living in my humble suburb of Chicago, we have had 312, 708, and 630 as splits. 331 was added as an overlay.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

Depends on business. Pizza shop has to be nearby, plumber or electrician has to be nearby and maybe required to be licensed...

Overlay works out for me

369/707

415/628
916/279 are ones near my house.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

New Hampshire is free of sales tax.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2023, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 04, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

In general, I agree with this. In principle, I like the idea of a split and of preserving seven-digit dialing, but in practice that's often impractical because it would result in such minuscule area code areas. When 571 was overlain on 703, that was the reason given–703 had already become much smaller when 540 was split off, and they decided they couldn't just keep shrinking the area.

The advantage to an overlay is that everyone can keep his current number(s).

Until the early 1970s, 703 was the entire state's area code. I've got a rotary phone in my kitchen that shows the phone number my grandparents had at the time, and it's a 703 number.

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 11:21:58 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

New Hampshire is free of sales tax.

It also matters for states with sales taxes, as the rates can differ (e.g. MA's rate is slightly less than RI and CT).

Quote from: Takumi on January 05, 2023, 11:37:43 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2023, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 04, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

In general, I agree with this. In principle, I like the idea of a split and of preserving seven-digit dialing, but in practice that's often impractical because it would result in such minuscule area code areas. When 571 was overlain on 703, that was the reason given–703 had already become much smaller when 540 was split off, and they decided they couldn't just keep shrinking the area.

The advantage to an overlay is that everyone can keep his current number(s).

Until the early 1970s, 703 was the entire state's area code. I've got a rotary phone in my kitchen that shows the phone number my grandparents had at the time, and it's a 703 number.

Right, and in terms of the original system, the use of 804 for the split-off area was a mild oddity because the middle zero was originally supposed to denote an area code that applied to an entire state. But in terms of 703, what I was saying about it becoming much smaller in the 1990s was meant to indicate that after 804 was split off, 703 still extended all the way down to Cumberland Gap, so it was still a big "area" geographically until the 540 split.

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
The overlays are less disruptive, for sure. As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

You think?  As the University of North Carolina has expanded (mainly in its Health Care wing), they still couldn't get enough new landline numbers in Area Code 919 after the overlay took affect.  About three years after the split, the entire UNC system ended up switching over to Area Code 984, the overlay which was supposed to be used for new cell phone services.  It was a big pain for the affected parties to make the switch.

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 05, 2023, 11:38:45 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 11:21:58 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

New Hampshire is free of sales tax.

It also matters for states with sales taxes, as the rates can differ (e.g. MA's rate is slightly less than RI and CT).

In what context are you seeing a business's phone number but not its full address?

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Yeah it is. There are plenty of people and ad campaigns that refer to Atlanta as "the 404". The road half of me is horrified, but there are companies that make 801 beehive merch for Utah, like this coffee mug (https://www.state-45.com/collections/801-collection/products/801-beehive-mug).

Also, plenty of people use area codes in their social media bios and such to indicate their location, especially if they've moved at all. I don't do it, but if I did, it'd look something like "801 ➡️ 404 ➡️ 850".

Side note: I don't like the 850/448 overlay because not only is it large, but there are clearly two major population centers in it. I wish they had done a split along the east end of Walton County, so that Pensacola and Tallahassee would have been the centers of the new codes.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 12:12:19 PM
In what context are you seeing a business's phone number but not its full address?

Seeing it in person as I walk, or for other people, more likely while driving.

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:13:01 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 12:12:19 PM
In what context are you seeing a business's phone number but not its full address?

Seeing it in person as I walk, or for other people, more likely while driving.

So, like, on a billboard?  I'm still trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be seeing the phone number for a business, have been heretofore unaware what state it's in, be considering patronizing said business, decide to base my decision on which side of the state line it's on, and not also be seeing the business's full address.

How frequently do you find yourself in such a situation?

I'm mainly thinking of this place, which is where I play Magic: the Gathering. To me, it doesn't matter which state it's in, but at least it's obvious that it's in Massachusetts with a 978 area code.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7417425,-71.2027635,3a,75y,239.25h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuLAYITE_VIVhNKAZ2NXIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7417425,-71.2027635,3a,75y,239.25h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuLAYITE_VIVhNKAZ2NXIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

I think I'm misremembering more businesses showing phone numbers than actually exist. For example, the convenience store in the foreground is in NH (where alcohol laws are more relaxed), where they claim they're the "first store in New Hampshire", and Plaza Azteca is in Massachusetts (with slightly lower meals' tax), with no indication at all.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7411183,-71.1979221,3a,75y,158.35h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7KAg9g9y7X2xTOsxt9PhzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7411183,-71.1979221,3a,75y,158.35h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7KAg9g9y7X2xTOsxt9PhzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

This one's not a phone number, but Lowe's explicitly says on a banner that they're in New Hampshire.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7407235,-71.1974033,3a,75y,36.42h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slS9qOwRTHC1a88JWQvZ9ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7407235,-71.1974033,3a,75y,36.42h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slS9qOwRTHC1a88JWQvZ9ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

One town over, this laundromat had a sign saying "We're still in Massachusetts – masks still required by state law!" (The restriction has been lifted by now.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

These businesses are in Massachusetts by a few feet – the parked cars are in New Hampshire. No indication.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:25:00 PM
One town over, this laundromat had a sign saying "We're still in Massachusetts – masks still required by state law!" (The restriction has been lifted by now.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

Am I missing the phone number in that shot?

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:25:00 PM
These businesses are in Massachusetts by a few feet – the parked cars are in New Hampshire. No indication.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

So... in case you're walking close enough by the strip mall to see the salon's phone number in the window, and decide you need to get your nails done without an appointment, you'll know what the tax rate is?

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:25:00 PM
I'm mainly thinking of this place, which is where I play Magic: the Gathering. To me, it doesn't matter which state it's in, but at least it's obvious that it's in Massachusetts with a 978 area code.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7417425,-71.2027635,3a,75y,239.25h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuLAYITE_VIVhNKAZ2NXIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7417425,-71.2027635,3a,75y,239.25h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuLAYITE_VIVhNKAZ2NXIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

I think I'm misremembering more businesses showing phone numbers than actually exist. For example, the convenience store in the foreground is in NH (where alcohol laws are more relaxed), where they claim they're the "first store in New Hampshire", and Plaza Azteca is in Massachusetts (with slightly lower meals' tax), with no indication at all.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7411183,-71.1979221,3a,75y,158.35h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7KAg9g9y7X2xTOsxt9PhzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7411183,-71.1979221,3a,75y,158.35h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7KAg9g9y7X2xTOsxt9PhzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

This one's not a phone number, but Lowe's explicitly says on a banner that they're in New Hampshire.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7407235,-71.1974033,3a,75y,36.42h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slS9qOwRTHC1a88JWQvZ9ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7407235,-71.1974033,3a,75y,36.42h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slS9qOwRTHC1a88JWQvZ9ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

One town over, this laundromat had a sign saying "We're still in Massachusetts – masks still required by state law!" (The restriction has been lifted by now.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

These businesses are in Massachusetts by a few feet – the parked cars are in New Hampshire. No indication.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Rarely, other than the signs the government puts up to say "Welcome to..." along the roadway (which arent usually exactly at the state line), will there be any indication you're crossing a state line.

And people are generally horrible at figuring out a tax difference. It's notable for states near a tax-free location, but if you're talking a rate difference of 1% or 2%, nearly no one will notice.  There's been a few times I questioned a total that should be, say, $40 and not $50, and the employee will say, oh, it's the sales tax. No, it's not a 25% tax. It's a bad price.

Area codes as identity is still a thing.  In fact, I think I hear "the 518" more often than I hear "the Capital District".

I really don't care.  As mentioned above there are a number of places that use the area code as some kind of slang for the area.  Seen it in Cincinnati (513) and the Virginia Tidewater area (757) among other places. 

One issue with overlays is that it identifies newcomers, which can be a bad thing. 

Northeast Ohio owns the 234 area code.

Wonder who took the phone number of 1-234-567-8900?

Quote from: SP Cook on January 05, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
One issue with overlays is that it identifies newcomers, which can be a bad thing. 

Somewhat, but not necessarily.  As I mentioned, if someone moves within the same area but crosses a rate center boundary, they'll have to get a new landline number and might end up with the new area code–even if they've lived in the area their whole life.  Similarly, if someone buys their teenager a cell phone, there's a chance the added number will come with the new area code.

Quote from: SP Cook on January 05, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
As mentioned above there are a number of places that use the area code as some kind of slang for the area.  Seen it in Cincinnati (513) and the Virginia Tidewater area (757) among other places.   

Washington, D.C. is fond of its 202 area code as an identifier for the city. Its new overlay 771, adopted in 2021, caused some consternation for that reason, much more than the 571 overlay for what's left of the 703 area code in northern Virginia.

My smartphone has a 571 number. That confuses some people outside the area, who didn't know that 571 was an area code or that it covers northern Virginia.

How it comes in handy the most is for knowing when a call from an unknown number is likely to be a scam.  If it begins with the same (316) 640- as my own cell phone, but the person isn't already in my list of contacts, then it's all but guaranteed to be some scammer from India.

Quote from: SP Cook on January 05, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
....

One issue with overlays is that it identifies newcomers, which can be a bad thing. 

More properly, it is often perceived as identifying newcomers. You can be a longstanding resident who gets an additional phone number that winds up being assigned to the new area code (e.g., my Google Voice number is a 571 number, whereas my home and mobile numbers are 703 numbers and I've lived in the area since 1974). But you can also be a newcomer who gets a phone number with the "old" area code (e.g., I've had my work number since 2019, but it's a 212 area code because my employer has a bunch of numbers it can assign to employees).

There was a Seinfeld episode about Elaine changing her phone number after Kramer signed her up to receive restaurant menus by fax (he wrongly thought she had a fax machine). She was assigned a 646 area code and it caused her much consternation, including when a guy rejected her for a date because he didn't know what the area code was. She eventually got a new 212 number when her neighbor died and she was able to get that number.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2023, 02:53:25 PM
But you can also be a newcomer who gets a phone number with the "old" area code (e.g., I've had my work number since 2019, but it's a 212 area code because my employer has a bunch of numbers it can assign to employees).

Yep.  An area getting an overlay doesn't mean the phone companies no longer issue new numbers with the old area code.  The phone provider don't even already have to be in possession of it.  Anytime someone moves out of the area, that number later becomes available again.

I remember, when Tulsa got its 539 overlay, I was working in dispatch (which in this industry means provisioning equipment for service, altering work orders, and troubleshooting service issues for field techs).  And still, most new accounts I saw set up for phone service were getting the 918 area code.

I remember back when local prefixes never used the numbers "1" or "0" as the 2nd digit -- those were only used in area codes.

I remember when half the time when you'd call someone, the phone company had a recorded message that said, "We're sorry, all circuits are busy." This was common with Cincinnati Bell up until about 1990. This made it hard to win prizes from radio stations, unless it was a really small station with not many listeners.

In the 2000s when we still used pay phones, half the time you'd put your coins in the phone and you'd get a message that repeated, "Error 6...Error 6." The phone would not refund your money.

I think large areas that are easily able to be split SHOULD be split. For example: 843 should have been split instead of overlaid. The area can easily be divided between Myrtle Beach, Georgetown, and the rest of the northern area, and then everything south of Georgetown county, like Charleston. Also, Maryland's eastern shore could easily have another area code as a split instead of being overlaid within the Baltimore area code zone.

WHen I lived in California, I remember the 916-530 area code split that took place in November 1st, 1997 that split most of Northeast California (which is sparsely populated) into 530 from the Sacramento area. There was no good way to split the Sacramento area again, so the 279 area code overlay took effect on March 10, 2018. It just meant that everyone now had to dial a full ten digits instead of seven. Try explaining that to a seasoned citizen whose entire life was dialing seven digits, and anything starting with 1 was an expensive long distance call.

On the Dallas side of DFW, we have the 214 area code (1947), 972 (1990), 469 (1999), and 945 (2021, but in standby). On the Fort Worth side, there is 817 (1953) and 682 (2000).

Personally, with number portability and mobile phones, it doesn't really matter as much now as it did years ago when everyone had land lines and calling outside your and neighboring calling area meant a "local long distance" call. I only changed my mobile number from a Sacramento area code to a Dallas area code more to look like a local.

The problem with area code splits is just how many devices that have affected phone numbers programmed in have to be changed, and the headaches caused by businesses and individuals in impacted areas.

Consider someone in Long Beach, CA.

Before 1991, their phone number would have been 213-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1991, their phone number became 310-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1997, their phone number became 562-xxx-yyyy

Every business in what is now in 562 had to change all their letterhead, business cards, etc. twice in six years.  Every device programmed to call a phone in that region had to be reprogrammed twice in six years.

Fortunately, changes in how phone numbers are allocated, and other changes in telecommunications have slowed the rate of number exhaustion in most area codes....and fortunately the CPUC now allows overlays instead of splits, completely eliminating the need for such disruption in the future.

Numbers should be, and are now, portable.  Few phone subscribers are exposed to the risk of domestic long-distance calls being tolled at a different rate than local calls.   It's time to quit thinking of area codes as describing geography (other than differentiating among countries within the NANP).

Quote from: bandit957 on January 05, 2023, 04:39:15 PM
I remember when half the time when you'd call someone, the phone company had a recorded message that said, "We're sorry, all circuits are busy." This was common with Cincinnati Bell up until about 1990. This made it hard to win prizes from radio stations, unless it was a really small station with not many listeners.

Many large cities had dedicated numbers known as "choke exchanges" that were created to filter heavy call volumes to certain numbers such as radio station contests.  These only had a very limited number of trunk connections to "real" central offices and so heavy calling got blocked at the originating CO and thus saved inter-office trunk lines from getting jammed..

In Detroit, 313-298 was (maybe still is, but I've been out of the business for a while now) the choke exchange used by just about every radio station that had listener call-ins.  When I was a business line installer for Michigan Bell early in my telecom career, I provisioned several of these special lines in the radio stations that were in our work area (WDRQ, for one).

Wikipedia article re choke exchanges:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_exchange

Quote from: catch22 on January 05, 2023, 10:12:20 PM

Quote from: bandit957 on January 05, 2023, 04:39:15 PM
I remember when half the time when you'd call someone, the phone company had a recorded message that said, "We're sorry, all circuits are busy." This was common with Cincinnati Bell up until about 1990. This made it hard to win prizes from radio stations, unless it was a really small station with not many listeners.

Many large cities had dedicated numbers known as "choke exchanges" that were created to filter heavy call volumes to certain numbers such as radio station contests.  These only had a very limited number of trunk connections to "real" central offices and so heavy calling got blocked at the originating CO and thus saved inter-office trunk lines from getting jammed..

In Detroit, 313-298 was (maybe still is, but I've been out of the business for a while now) the choke exchange used by just about every radio station that had listener call-ins.  When I was a business line installer for Michigan Bell early in my telecom career, I provisioned several of these special lines in the radio stations that were in our work area (WDRQ, for one).

Wikipedia article re choke exchanges:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_exchange

In Cincinnati, 749 seemed to be the choke exchange for radio stations. But WCLU used 261, which was just a regular exchange. They were lucky because they could announce 261 as AM1 (as they were an AM station).

The main Lexington station I listened to used 280 as its exchange, but I don't know if that was a choke exchange.

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on January 05, 2023, 09:36:25 PM
The problem with area code splits is just how many devices that have affected phone numbers programmed in have to be changed, and the headaches caused by businesses and individuals in impacted areas.

Consider someone in Long Beach, CA.

Before 1991, their phone number would have been 213-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1991, their phone number became 310-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1997, their phone number became 562-xxx-yyyy

Every business in what is now in 562 had to change all their letterhead, business cards, etc. twice in six years.  Every device programmed to call a phone in that region had to be reprogrammed twice in six years.

Fortunately, changes in how phone numbers are allocated, and other changes in telecommunications have slowed the rate of number exhaustion in most area codes....and fortunately the CPUC now allows overlays instead of splits, completely eliminating the need for such disruption in the future.

Ooh, good point.

OK, I'm now firmly in favor of overlays.  You pushed me over the line.  I've now changed my vote.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:46:01 PM

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on January 05, 2023, 09:36:25 PM
The problem with area code splits is just how many devices that have affected phone numbers programmed in have to be changed, and the headaches caused by businesses and individuals in impacted areas.

Consider someone in Long Beach, CA.

Before 1991, their phone number would have been 213-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1991, their phone number became 310-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1997, their phone number became 562-xxx-yyyy

Every business in what is now in 562 had to change all their letterhead, business cards, etc. twice in six years.  Every device programmed to call a phone in that region had to be reprogrammed twice in six years.

Fortunately, changes in how phone numbers are allocated, and other changes in telecommunications have slowed the rate of number exhaustion in most area codes....and fortunately the CPUC now allows overlays instead of splits, completely eliminating the need for such disruption in the future.

Ooh, good point.

OK, I'm now firmly in favor of overlays.  You pushed me over the line.  I've now changed my vote.

The other point I could have made against splits is to point out just how many splits there were before overlays gained acceptance.   There were a LOT of splits...and some locations (area code 562 being one example) were impacted by splits more than once.

For a while in the 1990's, there were a number of folks who had almost full-time jobs just reprogramming systems connected to the telephone work, customer databases, and the like to account for the steady stream of area code splits.

I miss seven-digit dialing...or I would if I bothered to memorize and manually dial local numbers any more...and the old simplicity of knowing the geographies of all the area codes, but I don't miss the headaches of having to deal with so many area code changes.

There is a place here in downtown Appleton, WI (I believe a nightclub) that calls itself the '920', so these sorts of geographic connections are still common and celebrated.

A brewery in Chicago, IL calls one of their flagship beer brands '312' and I have heard of a club in downtown Chicago that calls itself '606' (USPS ZIP codes for all addresses in the City of Chicago have always been in the '606xx' range).

Mike

We have Upper Peninsula Day every year on September 6th now, or 9/06 to match our area code. (No word on if Bois Blanc Island celebrates it with us; they're the only part of Mackinac County in the 231 area code.)

Quote from: mgk920 on January 06, 2023, 11:35:48 AM
There is a place here in downtown Appleton, WI (I believe a nightclub) that calls itself the '920', so these sorts of geographic connections are still common and celebrated.

A brewery in Chicago, IL calls one of their flagship beer brands '312' and I have heard of a club in downtown Chicago that calls itself '606' (USPS ZIP codes for all addresses in the City of Chicago have always been in the '606xx' range).

Mike

How about businesses called Exit X something?
Small catch in our area - I-87 "Northway" has sequential exit numbers starting in the middle of the state, once I-87 is no longer Thruway..

With overlays you can get a situation when two members of a household have two different area codes.

Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on February 18, 2023, 02:49:39 AM
With overlays you can get a situation when two members of a household have two different area codes.

I know of that happening with cell phones, when a mother and son signed up with the same service, AT&T, but at different store locations and got different area codes.  Today they're no longer in the same household and neither of them lives in the area code they were given.  I don't even look at telephone numbers, and if I see one, I just see a ten-digit block that tells me nothing about where the person is, or even where the person lives.  I remember knowing area codes and prefixes telling me what town a person was in, but that hasn't been the case in years.

We need to go back to when you had to pick up an ear piece and turn a crank to alert the operator, and then tell her that you want to talk to Mr. Drucker at his store.  That way you don't need to worry about numbers.

Oh, wait, we already have that, and it's fully automated.  So who the hell cares?

The only thing I care about is not forcing anyone to change their phone number.  Cell phones accomplish that for most people, but if a store moves across the street to a different area code, they shouldn't be forced to change.  It's not like anyone else is using the old number.  It would be silly to make the store clerk run across the street and climb up the pole to answer the phone just to be on the right side of the line so they can keep their number.  Area code splits are, of course, a much worse form.  If you move to a different state or a hundred miles away and want a landline, that's different.

I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on February 18, 2023, 02:49:39 AM
With overlays you can get a situation when two members of a household have two different area codes.

My daughter and her husband have two different area codes. Neither one matches the area where they now live. They both kept the phone numbers they always had.

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

I believe my landline at work still has a long distance provider fee and associated limitations. Not that I tried that for a while anyways...

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
The only thing I care about is not forcing anyone to change their phone number.  Cell phones accomplish that for most people, but if a store moves across the street to a different area code, they shouldn't be forced to change.  It's not like anyone else is using the old number.  It would be silly to make the store clerk run across the street and climb up the pole to answer the phone just to be on the right side of the line so they can keep their number.

Except that the coverage areas may be handled by different telcos. As an example, Sunrise Mall in Citrus Heights, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Mall/@38.675282,-121.2716331,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x809add3b365eb8f5:0x9d47474a85e94fe9!8m2!3d38.6752778!4d-121.2694444!16zL20vMDgxMm1x) was services at the north end of Roseville Telephone (now Surewest Communications) and was part of the Citrus Heights calling area. The south end of Sunrise Mall was serviced by Pacific Bell (now AT&T), and is part of the Fair Oaks, CA calling area. That is two different landline services.

Of course, with VoIP and mobile services offering unlimited domestic (cross county calling), the copper POTS lines are not being maintained well, with some of it being left to rot. When my mother and moved from Sacramento to Dallas, we went 100% mobile, and kept our old 916 numbers. I had set up Dallas phone numbers as call-forwarding numbers through Google Voice, and about a year and a half ago, ported the Google Voice number to be my main number just to look local.

Quote from: GaryV on February 18, 2023, 08:19:07 AM

Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on February 18, 2023, 02:49:39 AM
With overlays you can get a situation when two members of a household have two different area codes.

My daughter and her husband have two different area codes. Neither one matches the area where they now live. They both kept the phone numbers they always had.

Yeah, I don't see how this is a problem.  My two best friends have a 316 (Kansas) number and a 248 (Michigan) number.  And they live in Mexico.

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Believe it or not, people still associate area codes with geography, despite everyone having cell phones and keeping their area code when they move.  My cell number has a 585 area code (my number is even directly adjacent to the numbers for my parents, so it has sentimental value beyond the normal convenience factor of keeping it the same), but I now live in the 518/838 area code.  People still do double takes somewhat regularly at my 585 number, though it hasn't been as bad since we got the overlap - before then, people would regularly pre-type 518 when taking a phone number, so they'd need to delete that and put in 585 when putting in mine.

I worked at a finance company that did debt collection, among other things. There are laws about what time of day you can contact people. It used to be that you could just assign an area code to a time zone (with some edge cases) and figure out what time it was. But mobile phones being, well, mobile, made that simple algorithm break. Now they have to look both at phone numbers and last known address.

Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2023, 03:01:13 PM

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Believe it or not, people still associate area codes with geography, despite everyone having cell phones and keeping their area code when they move.  My cell number has a 585 area code (my number is even directly adjacent to the numbers for my parents, so it has sentimental value beyond the normal convenience factor of keeping it the same), but I now live in the 518/838 area code.  People still do double takes somewhat regularly at my 585 number, though it hasn't been as bad since we got the overlap - before then, people would regularly pre-type 518 when taking a phone number, so they'd need to delete that and put in 585 when putting in mine.

This is very true in eastern Kentucky.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2023, 08:22:42 PM

Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2023, 03:01:13 PM

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Believe it or not, people still associate area codes with geography, despite everyone having cell phones and keeping their area code when they move.  My cell number has a 585 area code (my number is even directly adjacent to the numbers for my parents, so it has sentimental value beyond the normal convenience factor of keeping it the same), but I now live in the 518/838 area code.  People still do double takes somewhat regularly at my 585 number, though it hasn't been as bad since we got the overlap - before then, people would regularly pre-type 518 when taking a phone number, so they'd need to delete that and put in 585 when putting in mine.

This is very true in eastern Kentucky.

I would expect it depends on the area. Lower mobility rural areas probably will stick to area code identity, hot migration spots are likely to be more agnostic

Quote from: ZLoth on January 05, 2023, 07:29:12 PM
WHen I lived in California, I remember the 916-530 area code split that took place in November 1st, 1997 that split most of Northeast California (which is sparsely populated) into 530 from the Sacramento area. There was no good way to split the Sacramento area again, so the 279 area code overlay took effect on March 10, 2018. It just meant that everyone now had to dial a full ten digits instead of seven. Try explaining that to a seasoned citizen whose entire life was dialing seven digits, and anything starting with 1 was an expensive long distance call.

On the Dallas side of DFW, we have the 214 area code (1947), 972 (1990), 469 (1999), and 945 (2021, but in standby). On the Fort Worth side, there is 817 (1953) and 682 (2000).

Personally, with number portability and mobile phones, it doesn't really matter as much now as it did years ago when everyone had land lines and calling outside your and neighboring calling area meant a "local long distance" call. I only changed my mobile number from a Sacramento area code to a Dallas area code more to look like a local.

I remember the late 1990's was a crazy time in California where every year certain parts of the state got a new area code.  This 530/916 spit took place at the same time as when San Mateo County changed from 415 to 650, Monterey County switched from 408 to 831, Fresno County moved from 209 to 559, 619 was split to three parts with 760 and 858, South Orange County got 949, San Gabriel Valley moved from 818 to 626 and so on. 


That era was a huge deal back then.

Quote from: kalvado on February 18, 2023, 08:31:38 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2023, 08:22:42 PM

Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2023, 03:01:13 PM

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Believe it or not, people still associate area codes with geography, despite everyone having cell phones and keeping their area code when they move.  My cell number has a 585 area code (my number is even directly adjacent to the numbers for my parents, so it has sentimental value beyond the normal convenience factor of keeping it the same), but I now live in the 518/838 area code.  People still do double takes somewhat regularly at my 585 number, though it hasn't been as bad since we got the overlap - before then, people would regularly pre-type 518 when taking a phone number, so they'd need to delete that and put in 585 when putting in mine.

This is very true in eastern Kentucky.

I would expect it depends on the area. Lower mobility rural areas probably will stick to area code identity, hot migration spots are likely to be more agnostic

It does depend on the locale. Here in Massachusetts, with many in-migrants, some people I know do keep their cell area codes from their former residences, although most tend to be NYC/DC metro area codes.

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on February 19, 2023, 06:53:48 AM

Quote from: kalvado on February 18, 2023, 08:31:38 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2023, 08:22:42 PM

Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2023, 03:01:13 PM

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Believe it or not, people still associate area codes with geography, despite everyone having cell phones and keeping their area code when they move.  My cell number has a 585 area code (my number is even directly adjacent to the numbers for my parents, so it has sentimental value beyond the normal convenience factor of keeping it the same), but I now live in the 518/838 area code.  People still do double takes somewhat regularly at my 585 number, though it hasn't been as bad since we got the overlap - before then, people would regularly pre-type 518 when taking a phone number, so they'd need to delete that and put in 585 when putting in mine.

This is very true in eastern Kentucky.

I would expect it depends on the area. Lower mobility rural areas probably will stick to area code identity, hot migration spots are likely to be more agnostic

It does depend on the locale. Here in Massachusetts, with many in-migrants, some people I know do keep their cell area codes from their former residences, although most tend to be NYC/DC metro area codes.

In western MA, Gen Xers and olders will always associate 413 with the area and 617 with Boston.  Going to be weird if they ever get another code for western MA.

https://youtu.be/QWxsYqCAS-k

Quote from: Rothman on February 19, 2023, 07:45:16 AM

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on February 19, 2023, 06:53:48 AM

Quote from: kalvado on February 18, 2023, 08:31:38 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2023, 08:22:42 PM

Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2023, 03:01:13 PM

Quote from: wxfree on February 18, 2023, 04:25:12 AM
I was the nerd who knew everyone's telephone number 30 years ago, including the distant relatives no one had seen in 20 years and I'd never met.  If you want to memorize telephone numbers today and dial them (punch them in manually), you're free to do that, but even if you do that, with ten-digit dialing being everywhere, what (beyond technical limitations of landlines) does an area code even mean these days?

Believe it or not, people still associate area codes with geography, despite everyone having cell phones and keeping their area code when they move.  My cell number has a 585 area code (my number is even directly adjacent to the numbers for my parents, so it has sentimental value beyond the normal convenience factor of keeping it the same), but I now live in the 518/838 area code.  People still do double takes somewhat regularly at my 585 number, though it hasn't been as bad since we got the overlap - before then, people would regularly pre-type 518 when taking a phone number, so they'd need to delete that and put in 585 when putting in mine.

This is very true in eastern Kentucky.

I would expect it depends on the area. Lower mobility rural areas probably will stick to area code identity, hot migration spots are likely to be more agnostic

It does depend on the locale. Here in Massachusetts, with many in-migrants, some people I know do keep their cell area codes from their former residences, although most tend to be NYC/DC metro area codes.

In western MA, Gen Xers and olders will always associate 413 with the area and 617 with Boston.  Going to be weird if they ever get another code for western MA.

https://youtu.be/QWxsYqCAS-k

Indeed, although the 413 is the slowest growing part of Massachusetts. I don't think it will be getting a new area code any time soon.

https://ktla.com/news/dont-answer-phone-calls-from-these-5-area-codes/


Here is one thats rife with "Subjected to be Updated at some Point" Area codes that are known for scam calls.

I've never received a call from any of the area codes listed in that article. Mine are pretty regularly 316 or 785 (two Kansas area codes) as I haven't changed my phone number from my 913 (KS side of KC) because it makes it easier to parse which are fake. If someone is calling me from Kansas but I don't have it saved in my address book, it's pretty easy to guess that it's a spam call.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 06, 2023, 11:00:59 AM
I've never received a call from any of the area codes listed in that article. Mine are pretty regularly 316 or 785 (two Kansas area codes) as I haven't changed my phone number from my 913 (KS side of KC) because it makes it easier to parse which are fake. If someone is calling me from Kansas but I don't have it saved in my address book, it's pretty easy to guess that it's a spam call.

Meanwhile, I got two calls the other day from a number in Senegal.  The first was in the middle of the night too, and woke my wife and me up out of a deep sleep.

Quote from: kphoger on March 07, 2023, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 06, 2023, 11:00:59 AM
I've never received a call from any of the area codes listed in that article. Mine are pretty regularly 316 or 785 (two Kansas area codes) as I haven't changed my phone number from my 913 (KS side of KC) because it makes it easier to parse which are fake. If someone is calling me from Kansas but I don't have it saved in my address book, it's pretty easy to guess that it's a spam call.

Meanwhile, I got two calls the other day from a number in Senegal.  The first was in the middle of the night too, and woke my wife and me up out of a deep sleep.

There is a "do not disturb" mode available in most phones today

Quote from: kalvado on March 07, 2023, 02:55:55 PM
There is a "do not disturb" mode available in most phones today

Yes, but I still want important calls to come through.  AFAIK, my phone doesn't do that for only specific numbers.

My carrier screens out scam calls (though most are from the same area code), and my phone (a Pixel) is able to use advanced screening that transcribes the first few lines of a phone call. I can choose to answer it or block without having to listen to anything.

Call blocking has been a godsend. I set it to where it doesn't ring if they're not on my saved list. The 1% of the time they're not, I'll call them back and add them if they leave a voicemail. I get stupid spam.

On both my phones -- my personal cell and my work cell -- I have a policy of "if I don't recognize the number, I don't answer the call."

For my personal phone, I went one step farther. I downloaded a silence ringtone that is my default. Anyone in my contacts has an assigned ringtone -- for my wife, it's "I Was Made For Lovin' You" by Kiss and for my mother-in-law it's "Tie Your Mother Down" by Queen, for example -- so I hear those calls. All others are silent; if I happen to be looking at the phone and recognize the number, I'll answer. Otherwise, I don't even know anyone is calling. For both phones, if it's important, they'll leave a message for me to call back. If they don't leave a message, then it wasn't important to begin with, and that number typically gets blocked so it'll never call me again.

I'd rather (a) answer the phone, wait for the 'bloop' sound during handoff from robocall machine to actual phone, then hang up.  I'd rather not (b) ignore the call, then get a voicemail notification, then dial my voicemail, and go through the prompts to delete the message.

Quote from: kphoger on March 08, 2023, 10:04:34 AM
I'd rather (a) answer the phone, wait for the 'bloop' sound during handoff from robocall machine to actual phone,

I don't know why my wife does what she does. Answer Hello. Wait, because no response. Answer again. Wait again - and get connected to a telemarketer. She often takes calls from some unknown (local) numbers because of her work. But they would start talking as soon as she says Hello if it was a legit call.

If I answer a call from an unknown number and they don't respond immediately, I just hang up.

I get so few spam calls right now that I would say about 30% of unknown calls are legitimate (including wrong numbers). I will answer it if it's an area code I recognize or the digits are low enough (total 20 or less, middle digit 0 or 1) that it existed in the 1947 plan and therefore definitely isn't a premium area code, unless I'm in the middle of a burst of spam calls (which has happened a few times and only lasts a few days each time).

Most spam calls I get today are from small towns in my state.  I know no one in this state outside of the region I live in, so they are obviously spam.  I will answer if I'm not busy, because the only way to punish these people is to waste their time.  Based on accents, these people are obviously not Appalachian, most are clearly not Americans at all.   Usually claim to be from the "expired account department" and claim I have unused travel credits they can "reactivate" for a fee.  AKA they are scammers selling over-priced travel. 

Also get a lot of calls from the nation's largest civil rights organization, which I am a Life Member, but my one gripe with them is that they won't stop asking for money even though I'm a Life Member, and they sell their mailing lists to outfits of dubious merit (survival food, gold coin dealers, second passport agents, land in Alaska, etc.).  Always from 202 and recently from its 771 overlay. 

Quote from: GaryV on March 08, 2023, 10:09:13 AM
I don't know why my wife does what she does. Answer Hello. Wait, because no response. Answer again. Wait again - and get connected to a telemarketer. She often takes calls from some unknown (local) numbers because of her work. But they would start talking as soon as she says Hello if it was a legit call.

If I answer a call from an unknown number and they don't respond immediately, I just hang up.

We do have an entire thread about this, but...

I used to mess with the callers.  But then that only increased the number of scam callers, so I eventually got tired of it and stopped doing that.  Now I just press the green button and sit in silence.  (A real caller will say Hello? at that point.)  But a couple of days ago, on my way home from work, I got a scam call.  I was by myself, and it had been awhile since I'd had some fun with a scam caller.  So, when that Indian-accented voice came on the line, I just screamed as loud as I could.  It felt good.

Quote from: kphoger on March 08, 2023, 10:04:34 AM
I'd rather (a) answer the phone, wait for the 'bloop' sound during handoff from robocall machine to actual phone, then hang up.  I'd rather not (b) ignore the call, then get a voicemail notification, then dial my voicemail, and go through the prompts to delete the message.

That's the beauty of an iPhone. One swipe, and the voicemail is deleted.

https://www.fox29.com/news/phone-call-area-codes-scammers-use-most
.https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2021/top-area-codes-for-robocalls.html

https://www.rd.com/article/area-codes-phone-scam/

Note studies may vary on when the data was recorded and is subject to be updated.

Overlays seem to be the trend that's here to stay.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Have you been to Wyoming lately? They sell 307 merchandise (think there's a hot sauce, among other things). Here in SD June 5th is "South Dakota Day" by order of the tourism department, wouldn't be surprised if a governor makes it an official state holiday like Pioneer Day in Utah. I can't confirm how attached ND is to 701 or MT is to 402.

^^ Bad link and why would it have John Madden's name in it?

Quote from: Big John on March 11, 2023, 09:37:34 AM
^^ Bad link and why would it have John Madden's name in it?

Not sure why it did that. The point was that four of the six New England states still have just one area code, and it will be a big deal when a new one is added. Maine extended their (beloved) area code as the sole one until the end of 2025.

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 11, 2023, 09:46:22 AM

Quote from: Big John on March 11, 2023, 09:37:34 AM
^^ Bad link and why would it have John Madden's name in it?

Not sure why it did that. The point was that four of the six New England states still have just one area code, and it will be a big deal when a new one is added. Maine extended their (beloved) area code as the sole one until the end of 2025.

While I'm not seeing the link, it looks like the anti-Poiponen13 filter had a false positive.

Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 10:18:37 AM

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 11, 2023, 09:46:22 AM

Quote from: Big John on March 11, 2023, 09:37:34 AM
^^ Bad link and why would it have John Madden's name in it?

Not sure why it did that. The point was that four of the six New England states still have just one area code, and it will be a big deal when a new one is added. Maine extended their (beloved) area code as the sole one until the end of 2025.

While I'm not seeing the link, it looks like the anti-Poiponen13 filter had a false positive.

Took out the link because it kept popping up an error. Could have been a filter.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 08, 2023, 02:13:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 08, 2023, 10:04:34 AM
I'd rather (a) answer the phone, wait for the 'bloop' sound during handoff from robocall machine to actual phone, then hang up.  I'd rather not (b) ignore the call, then get a voicemail notification, then dial my voicemail, and go through the prompts to delete the message.

That's the beauty of an iPhone. One swipe, and the voicemail is deleted.

Or really any modern smartphone. Most come with visual voicemail and some level of transcription, plus easy deletion.

We've had a discussion about area codes for this long without a reference to The Simpsons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tale_of_Two_Springfields)?

Quote from: SD Mapman on March 10, 2023, 10:14:46 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Have you been to Wyoming lately? They sell 307 merchandise (think there's a hot sauce, among other things). Here in SD June 5th is "South Dakota Day" by order of the tourism department, wouldn't be surprised if a governor makes it an official state holiday like Pioneer Day in Utah. I can't confirm how attached ND is to 701 or MT is to 402.

Pertinent phrase bolded.

No, I've never actually been to Wyoming, believe it or not.  Nor have I been to North Dakota or Montana.  (Wow, I need to travel to that part of the country sometime!)  But those three states combined are home to less than three-fourths of one percent of the US population, so I still feel fairly comfortable with the observation I made.

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Quote from: SD Mapman on March 10, 2023, 10:14:46 PM
Have you been to Wyoming lately? They sell 307 merchandise (think there's a hot sauce, among other things). Here in SD June 5th is "South Dakota Day" by order of the tourism department, wouldn't be surprised if a governor makes it an official state holiday like Pioneer Day in Utah. I can't confirm how attached ND is to 701 or MT is to 402.

Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 10:08:37 AM
No, I've never actually been to Wyoming, believe it or not.  Nor have I been to North Dakota or Montana.  (Wow, I need to travel to that part of the country sometime!)  But those three states combined are home to less than three-fourths of one percent of the US population, so I still feel fairly comfortable with the observation I made.

West Virginia did the overlay thing because of the Mountain State's affinity for "The Three-Oh-Four".  That doesn't make much difference either, but how about the Space Coast's affinity for "Three-Two-One [Blastoff]" or even better, Virginia Beach and the "The 757" (which doesn't seem to be such a big thing in Norfolk, by the way).

If the NFL's Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Jacksonville Jaguars were to switch divisions, the NFC South could then be called the 04 Division -- Atlanta (area code 404), New Orleans (504), Carolina (Charlotte, 704), and Jacksonville (904) . . .

Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 14, 2023, 10:25:52 AM

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Quote from: SD Mapman on March 10, 2023, 10:14:46 PM
Have you been to Wyoming lately? They sell 307 merchandise (think there's a hot sauce, among other things). Here in SD June 5th is "South Dakota Day" by order of the tourism department, wouldn't be surprised if a governor makes it an official state holiday like Pioneer Day in Utah. I can't confirm how attached ND is to 701 or MT is to 402.

Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 10:08:37 AM
No, I've never actually been to Wyoming, believe it or not.  Nor have I been to North Dakota or Montana.  (Wow, I need to travel to that part of the country sometime!)  But those three states combined are home to less than three-fourths of one percent of the US population, so I still feel fairly comfortable with the observation I made.

West Virginia did the overlay thing because of the Mountain State's affinity for "The Three-Oh-Four".  That doesn't make much difference either, but how about the Space Coast's affinity for "Three-Two-One [Blastoff]" or even better, Virginia Beach and the "The 757" (which doesn't seem to be such a big thing in Norfolk, by the way).

I assume the best approach is to let such identity dilute over time. It is already  happening in some places.
Overlay is probably the best way to deal with that. Those who has THE number get to keep it, and for newcomers it has to be  a smaller deal. Kids who grew in the area getting their first number may be the most affected.
Charging a bit for  THE number may be a good way for phone companies to make some money, if that is legal. To some extent this is similar to vanity license plates - those who want can pay a bit more, but things work  for everyone else as well. 

Quote from: kalvado on March 14, 2023, 10:35:29 AM
I assume the best approach is to let such identity dilute over time. It is already  happening in some places.
Overlay is probably the best way to deal with that. Those who has THE number get to keep it, and for newcomers it has to be  a smaller deal.

But it isn't just newcomers who get the new area code, as has already been pointed out.  Anybody who gets a new number might get the new area code–someone with a landline phone who moves across town into a different rate center, a family who gets an additional cell phone, someone who switches cable companies and opts for the bundle that includes home phone, etc, etc.

Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 10:50:20 AM

Quote from: kalvado on March 14, 2023, 10:35:29 AM
I assume the best approach is to let such identity dilute over time. It is already  happening in some places.
Overlay is probably the best way to deal with that. Those who has THE number get to keep it, and for newcomers it has to be  a smaller deal.

But it isn't just newcomers who get the new area code, as has already been pointed out.  Anybody who gets a new number might get the new area code–someone with a landline phone who moves across town into a different rate center, a family who gets an additional cell phone, someone who switches cable companies and opts for the bundle that includes home phone, etc, etc.

Sure, that's pretty much what I said.  Old number can be kept to cell line in many cases, but new numbers would be new. That will eventually dilute area code identity without too much drama - or what else can you do? Collecting crumbs of non-assigned numbers across the area is only that efficient. So spreading out impact over time is the best bet IMHO.

Quote from: kalvado on March 14, 2023, 12:00:04 PM
Old number can be kept to cell line in many cases, but new numbers would be new. That will eventually dilute area code identity without too much drama - or what else can you do? Collecting crumbs of non-assigned numbers across the area is only that efficient. So spreading out impact over time is the best bet IMHO.

Can you even collect them by the crumb?  At least, the way it used to be is that numbers were assigned to carriers in blocks.  That is to say, XYZ Phone Company can't just be assigned 123-555-2010, 123-555-6116, and 123-555-9924 from LMNO Phone Company.  Rather, they can be assigned 123-555-2010 through 123-555-2210, minus whatever numbers are already in use somewhere.  If a customer drops a number, then that number stays assigned to the same provider until it gets assigned to a new customer with the same provider later.  With increased portability, it's possible things have changed, but I'm not sure.

But anyway, I agree that 'area code identity' should be no basis for making area code changes, and that overlays are probably the best system to use.

Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 12:10:41 PM

Quote from: kalvado on March 14, 2023, 12:00:04 PM
Old number can be kept to cell line in many cases, but new numbers would be new. That will eventually dilute area code identity without too much drama - or what else can you do? Collecting crumbs of non-assigned numbers across the area is only that efficient. So spreading out impact over time is the best bet IMHO.

Can you even collect them by the crumb?  At least, the way it used to be is that numbers were assigned to carriers in blocks.  That is to say, XYZ Phone Company can't just be assigned 123-555-2010, 123-555-6116, and 123-555-9924 from LMNO Phone Company.  Rather, they can be assigned 123-555-2010 through 123-555-2210, minus whatever numbers are already in use somewhere.  If a customer drops a number, then that number stays assigned to the same provider until it gets assigned to a new customer with the same provider later.  With increased portability, it's possible things have changed, but I'm not sure.

But anyway, I agree that 'area code identity' should be no basis for making area code changes, and that overlays are probably the best system to use.

There may be defunct companies who didn't release their blocks properly, there may be subblocks within assigned block  company will be willing to release. Minimum assignment block was also reduced, AFAIK, so technically at least something is possible  Is it cost efficient? 
I don't know, I suspect not really worth it.

Quote from: kalvado on March 14, 2023, 10:35:29 AM
Charging a bit for  THE number may be a good way for phone companies to make some money, if that is legal. To some extent this is similar to vanity license plates - those who want can pay a bit more, but things work  for everyone else as well.

I thought charges could be applied to get mostly unavailable numbers, like a 212 (original Manhattan area code, which was out of numbers 20 years ago). Could have sworn I read there is a way to " buy"  a 212 number

Quote from: kalvado on March 14, 2023, 12:14:37 PM
There may be defunct companies who didn't release their blocks properly, there may be subblocks within assigned block  company will be willing to release. Minimum assignment block was also reduced, AFAIK, so technically at least something is possible  Is it cost efficient? 
I don't know, I suspect not really worth it.

You mean that a block of numbers from a defunct company aren't automatically dropped back into the pool?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

As for sub-blocks, I'm sure there are some that providers would be willing to release.  But then that gets at your cost-efficiency question.  While the man-hours required to release a number from one provider back into the pool and out again is theoretically small, who would be ones to identify which sub-blocks those are?  And how often would they do that scrubbing?  And do we really assume the release would go seamlessly every time?  The cost-efficiency just seems to drop further and further the more I think about it.

Overlay, due to no real disruption to active phone numbers.

Between cell phones and VOIP, overlay seems to make a lot more sense.

How many people even dial numbers anymore?  My most frequent calls are on my phone's contact list.  Many people use cell phones and even many of my neighbors do not have "local" phones, since they acquired their phones when they were living in another city. 

It seems best to just overlay, so that nobody has to change their phone numbers.

Most of my calls are to businesses and services, often found through Google listings. They might offer an online option, but the experience is usually so terrible that it's faster to go through the phone tree (especially with the neat tricks my phone can do, like auto-hold and displaying the menu in text form).

If I need to contact friends and family, I'm using an instant messaging service (or their call feature) rather than a normal phone call, which would be ignored for spam.

I didn't see a thread specifically about new area codes, but the 970 area code which covers northern and western Colorado is getting an overlay in 2026 - 748. It will be Colorado's sixth area code after 303, 719, 970, 720, and the yet to implemented (to my knowledge) 983.

Quote from: mrsman on July 11, 2023, 05:46:32 PM
How many people even dial numbers anymore?  My most frequent calls are on my phone's contact list.  Many people use cell phones and even many of my neighbors do not have "local" phones, since they acquired their phones when they were living in another city. 

It seems best to just overlay, so that nobody has to change their phone numbers.

I dial phone numbers fairly regularly when I use my office phone.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 20, 2023, 03:00:17 PM

Quote from: mrsman on July 11, 2023, 05:46:32 PM
How many people even dial numbers anymore?  My most frequent calls are on my phone's contact list.  Many people use cell phones and even many of my neighbors do not have "local" phones, since they acquired their phones when they were living in another city. 

It seems best to just overlay, so that nobody has to change their phone numbers.

I dial phone numbers fairly regularly when I use my office phone.

Your office still has rotary phones? :bigass:

Quote from: Big John on December 20, 2023, 03:14:47 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 20, 2023, 03:00:17 PM

Quote from: mrsman on July 11, 2023, 05:46:32 PM
How many people even dial numbers anymore?  My most frequent calls are on my phone's contact list.  Many people use cell phones and even many of my neighbors do not have "local" phones, since they acquired their phones when they were living in another city. 

It seems best to just overlay, so that nobody has to change their phone numbers.

I dial phone numbers fairly regularly when I use my office phone.

Your office still has rotary phones? :bigass:

Heh. Nice one. What reasonably concise alternative expression would you use to describe the process of punching the number buttons on a touch-tone phone?

Early 1990s is the best chance to upgrade to 8 digit under populous area codes. It's the time when enough splits had been done, and before the cellphone comes out.
If NYC expands 212 and 718 into 8 digits at the time 917 came out, then they only need these two until foreseeable future.

I guess New Hampshire is neither....


https://www.wcax.com/2023/10/31/sununu-signs-order-preserve-singular-603-area-code/

The 327 overlay just went into effect in the 870 in Arkansas. That'll be confusing for me because 327 was one of the exchange codes for Conway.

Quote from: Road Hog on March 03, 2024, 12:25:34 AM
The 327 overlay just went into effect in the 870 in Arkansas. That'll be confusing for me because 327 was one of the exchange codes for Conway.

If it like 430 over 903, it will be decades before any significant amount of people have phones with that AC.