NYC Congestion Pricing

[jeffandnicole]

Well, congestion pricing in Manhattan is off and running, and unsurprisingly, the naysayers are already complaining about it (https://nypost.com/2025/01/06/opinion/nyc-congestion-pricing-debacle-is-already-slamming-average-joes-thanks-gov-hochul/). This is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but maybe the congestion pricing plan should have covered all of Manhattan, not just south of 60th St. Perhaps, eventually, it will be.

Hochul tries to soften political impact - improvements to metro north and Amtrak rail service are to be proposed. Let's see if they will be funded though...

Shouldn't the improvements have been proposed, and implemented, say, before the congestion pricing went into effect?

[kalvado]

Well, congestion pricing in Manhattan is off and running, and unsurprisingly, the naysayers are already complaining about it (https://nypost.com/2025/01/06/opinion/nyc-congestion-pricing-debacle-is-already-slamming-average-joes-thanks-gov-hochul/). This is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but maybe the congestion pricing plan should have covered all of Manhattan, not just south of 60th St. Perhaps, eventually, it will be.

Hochul tries to soften political impact - improvements to metro north and Amtrak rail service are to be proposed. Let's see if they will be funded though...

Shouldn't the improvements have been proposed, and implemented, say, before the congestion pricing went into effect?

What was first, chicken or egg?
The idea is that MTA is going to borrow money for capital projects and pay them off using congestion pricing revenue. So revenue stream has to be there for construction to begin. I doubt there is going to be a lot of improvement given the state of MTA and their spending practices, and given that money will be already flowing. Probably some grand opening of a new tool shed would be held within next decade.
So to answer my original question.... Omelet.

[mrsman]

This article lists the few connections between FDR and West Side Highway and Brooklyn/Queens that involve direct bridge to highway (or tunnel to highway) and thus do not face congestion pricing (but may face the "normal" tolls).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/congestion-pricing-maps-show-which-new-york-roads-and-tunnels-are-and-are-not-impacted/ar-AA1wW3GO

This article shows a map (scroll towards the bottom) comparing all of the crossings into Midtown and Lower Manhattan and showing the different charges at peak.

https://nypost.com/2025/01/05/us-news/hochuls-9-nyc-congestion-tolls-set-to-roll-out-jan-5/

As others have mentioned, the exact cost does differ based on time of day, so the above graphic can be slightly misleading.  The exact charges paid can be confusing when comparing crossings because of differing PA or MTA tolls, transponder favoritism, and how the congestion charge itself is implemented.

--------

I am not a fan of the above system.  I don't believe it was implemented fairly and the system is complicated.

A fair system would produce significant discounts for the non-CBD MTA crossings.  Yes, actually cut the costs on the Whitestone or Verrazanno.  Eliminate the Bronx-Manhattan toll on the RFK bridge (but maintain tolling from Queens).  Only impose significant additional tolls on the crossings into Manhattan.

No additional tolls for Holland or Lincoln Tunnel users.  The NJ drivers already face a toll to reach Manhattan.

Impose the heavy toll south of 58th.  This would allow for the Queensboro Bridge to remain free in all directions to reach the Upper East Side.  Carey Tunnel to West Side Highway or FDR would only face normal tolls.  Brooklyn Bridge to FDR should also be free (including if there is a need for a small surface street needed for a connection).

[LilianaUwU]

A fair system

A fair system would give the money to the roads instead of transit.

[MASTERNC]

Supposedly the E-ZPass New York site crashed yesterday morning.  The big reason is you need to have your license plate registered (I thought maybe they scanned transponders like a toll road, but I keep reading that if your plate isn't registered, you pay the same as a toll-by-plate driver).  Definitely creates an issue for anyone returning a rental car in Manhattan because many of the agencies use the NY toll system to register their vehicles (preventing you from registering your rental's plate).

[vdeane]

I am not a fan of the above system.  I don't believe it was implemented fairly and the system is complicated.

A fair system would produce significant discounts for the non-CBD MTA crossings.  Yes, actually cut the costs on the Whitestone or Verrazanno.  Eliminate the Bronx-Manhattan toll on the RFK bridge (but maintain tolling from Queens).  Only impose significant additional tolls on the crossings into Manhattan.

No additional tolls for Holland or Lincoln Tunnel users.  The NJ drivers already face a toll to reach Manhattan.

Impose the heavy toll south of 58th.  This would allow for the Queensboro Bridge to remain free in all directions to reach the Upper East Side.  Carey Tunnel to West Side Highway or FDR would only face normal tolls.  Brooklyn Bridge to FDR should also be free (including if there is a need for a small surface street needed for a connection).

I preferred the original Move NY Fair plan, which equalized the toll for entering Manhattan no matter which crossing was used while lowering the tolls for the bridges not involving Manhattan.  Alas, it was morphed into the current leviathan that preserves the ability to "bridge shop", a practice that significantly contributes to congestion on the BQE as people shunpike the tunnels (note that Move NY Fair lacked the West Street/FDR Drive exemption).

http://nyc.smartparticipation.com/learn/whats-move-ny-fair-plan
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2015/02/17/the-complete-guide-to-the-final-move-ny-plan

Definitely creates an issue for anyone returning a rental car in Manhattan because many of the agencies use the NY toll system to register their vehicles (preventing you from registering your rental's plate).

E-ZPass NY doesn't support that type of registration either, with no guarantee of how fast changes will process, attempting to register a rental car to avoid the rental car company's fees is a gamble, as you might end up paying someone else's tolls or have your's processed by the company (especially since some Thruway tolls take over a week to process).

[mrsman]

^^^^

I agree vdeane.  The original MoveNY plan is far better for the reasons stated.  Reduced tolls on all non-CBD crossings.  No additional toll for people crossing from Holland or Lincoln Tunnels.  And as you stated, it would reduce bridge shopping and equalize the traffic on the different crossings.

And oddly enough, it would probably do a better job of collecting revenue and reducing congestion in Manhattan and its crossings.  Essentially by implementing a plan like this, you would toll every single car that leaves Long Island (which includes Brooklyn and Queens) by at least some amount, so you would capture every long distance driver of Long Island. 

You would reduce congestion by favoring the expressway crossings like Verrazano and Triboro and reduce the crossings on the Queensboro and Brooklyn Bridges which create terrible traffic where the bridges touch down at either end.

[roadman65]

I was in New Jersey last week. I heard commentary on this, on even rock stations.

It seems that last week couldn't get a fair assessment on it because experts on this said the holiday season made roads less congested.

Go figure.

[1995hoo]

Trying to make a definitive judgment on how well it's working after only a single week is rather silly anyway, though it seems to be in keeping with American society's apparent need to rush to judgment on everything these days.

[roadman65]

I think they're looking more for any excuse these days. The rushed judgement is part of that just to say something either positive or negative.

It would be best to say " No report, as it just started with the Holiday Travel still on" and leave it at that.

If it's on a Rock Station I do believe these DJs were not reporting the news, but poking fun at our society.  Being it's the first of its kind it's going to be critiqued though.

For months it will a hot topic for any discussion.

[kalvado]

For months it will a hot topic for any discussion.

For 2 years - NYC mayor election is in 25, and NYS governor is in 26

[roadman65]

For months it will a hot topic for any discussion.

For 2 years - NYC mayor election is in 25, and NYS governor is in 26

I wouldn't want to be hearing this election ads.

I'm sure one candidate will say he wants to retract the congestion pricing to get votes.

 Politics is so predictable.