Sherman Minton closed Indefinitely.........I-64 west end of Louisville.

[RoadWarrior56]

If you try to drastically widen the footprint of I-64 in the Ohio River area, the project would be tied up for years in NEPA/Environmental Hell.  If it is a bridge replacment, keep it as similar to the exisitng size as possible just to get it built ASAP.

[ShawnP]

This is a bold faced lie if you ask me. That steel will only age and get more and more brittle with time. INDOT will only be chasing cracks from now on with this bridge. Now is the time to replace it as Construction rates will never be lower than now. INDOT you are being penny wise to be pound foolish.

http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=38645&information_id=77457&type=&syndicate=syndicate

[mukade]

This is a bold faced lie if you ask me. That steel will only age and get more and more brittle with time. INDOT will only be chasing cracks from now on with this bridge. Now is the time to replace it as Construction rates will never be lower than now. INDOT you are being penny wise to be pound foolish.

http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=38645&information_id=77457&type=&syndicate=syndicate

I don't get your point. The bridge will have to be replaced, but in the normal course. If nothing else, get the I-265 bridge built before this bridge is replaced. That and there certainly is not money allocated to do both projects no matter what the construction costs are today. If they decided to replace it now, it would be at least a couple of years of traffic mess that affects the economy of that entire region.

[ShawnP]

This really calls into the question of the professional standards and qualifications of INDOT as a public agency. 50 years and they never spotted the crack. Either it was a) pure laziness by choosing not to cut viewing spots for visual inspections or b) they didn't know to inspect at said spots. Either way they put millions of people at risk for decades. In the Navy as I was for 20 years we call this "Gun Decking" ie falsification of reports. Gundecking like this in the Navy would get you reduced in rank and kicked out. Some people INDOT have some big time splaing to do.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110923/EXTRAS18/309230071/Bridge-crack-repaired-inspections-continue?odyssey=mod|mostview

[Brandon]

This really calls into the question of the professional standards and qualifications of INDOT as a public agency. 50 years and they never spotted the crack. Either it was a) pure laziness by choosing not to cut viewing spots for visual inspections or b) they didn't know to inspect at said spots. Either way they put millions of people at risk for decades. In the Navy as I was for 20 years we call this "Gun Decking" ie falsification of reports. Gundecking like this in the Navy would get you reduced in rank and kicked out. Some people INDOT have some big time splaing to do.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110923/EXTRAS18/309230071/Bridge-crack-repaired-inspections-continue?odyssey=mod|mostview

Ditto with the Cline Avenue (IN-912) Bridge up this way.  Built in the 1980s and now closed due to cracks?  WTF!?!

[ShawnP]

Once is occurance and Twice is a trend. So it's now established without a doubt that INDOT isn't inspecting it's bridges properly. I think they need to outsource it and fire some inspectors.

[tdindy88]

Oh this gets even better, the MLK Jr. St. Bridge over the Borman in Northwest Indiana has to be rebuilt, and that was constructed in 2004.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/gary/article_3ff52228-5d51-5999-8b30-59d5ce505429.html

I guess construction isn't completely over on the Borman afterall.

[Brandon]

Oh this gets even better, the MLK Jr. St. Bridge over the Borman in Northwest Indiana has to be rebuilt, and that was constructed in 2004.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/gary/article_3ff52228-5d51-5999-8b30-59d5ce505429.html

I guess construction isn't completely over on the Borman afterall.

It's the Borman.  It's never over.     

[RoadWarrior56]

The Sherman Minton was outsourced.  It was a consultant inspecting that bridge for INDOT that found the cracks.  They were found in the midst of maintenance work on that bridge.  From my understanding, there had been more than one firm working on that bridge.

Keep in mind that the bridge never collapsed.  The inspectors, whoever they were, did find cracks and had the bridge closed before anybody was hurt.  Somebody did their job and found a problem in time.  I don't know who to blame, if anybody.  Time will tell on that issue, as we find out more information.

But I am going to give INDOT some credit for finding the problem before the bridge fell down, whether it should had been found sooner or not.

[mukade]

The Sherman Minton was outsourced.  It was a consultant inspecting that bridge for INDOT that found the cracks.  They were found in the midst of maintenance work on that bridge.  From my understanding, there had been more than one firm working on that bridge.

Keep in mind that the bridge never collapsed.  The inspectors, whoever they were, did find cracks and had the bridge closed before anybody was hurt.  Somebody did their job and found a problem in time.  I don't know who to blame, if anybody.  Time will tell on that issue, as we find out more information.

But I am going to give INDOT some credit for finding the problem before the bridge fell down, whether it should had been found sooner or not.

That is correct. In the interviews, INDOT said the Sherman Minton inspections were always outsourced because the bridge is so complex. There are only two such bridges in the US - the other is in California.

FWIW, the NY engineering firm said the system worked exactly like it was supposed to.

[mukade]

Once is occurance and Twice is a trend. So it's now established without a doubt that INDOT isn't inspecting it's bridges properly. I think they need to outsource it and fire some inspectors.

So they inspect bridges, find problems that could cost lives before catastrophe occurs, and that is bad? I would say inspectors are doing their job - and some INDOT inspections are contracted out from what was said on the news.  From what I remember, Wisconsin has had at least two issues with Mississippi River bridges that required closures.

[mukade]

Oh this gets even better, the MLK Jr. St. Bridge over the Borman in Northwest Indiana has to be rebuilt, and that was constructed in 2004.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/gary/article_3ff52228-5d51-5999-8b30-59d5ce505429.html

I guess construction isn't completely over on the Borman afterall.

INDOT found cracks in the MLK bridge and are suing the contractor, Superior Construction. I believe Superior Construction was also the contractor involved with building the now closed section of Cline Avenue. That bridge was built in the early 80s. Superior also did the I-65 widening from 53rd Avenue north and that pavement does not look real good for as new as it is.

[codyg1985]

Any engineers or Holiday Inn folks have any ideals?

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Sherman-Minton-Bridge-welds-vertical-cracks-concern-engineers-130146593.html

I am learning about structural engineering in my profession, so don't take my word as gospel truth, but for starters, why do they have a politician trying to explain an engineering problem? What about a structural engineer that is more familiar with what's going on here? Secondly, all of the members are not welded together; you can clearly see in the close-up shots that some of the members are bolted together. Even though it does make things harder to replace if members are welded together, welds are typically stronger than bolts are. especially groove welds or complete penetration welds.

[mukade]

One news conference had the the expert engineer brought in from New York and one had the INDOT's chief bridge engineer. In all honesty, the real engineers need to be working on the problem anyway, and that was said at least once. I agree mayors, senators, and congressmen need not be on all the time, but it is appropriate to have the DOT commissioners (who are engineers) from both states. As INDOT maintains the bridge, I am surprised that they didn't cover the INDOT commissioner's last news conference where he announced the bridge need not be replaced, but they had full video of the conference with all the politicians and bureaucrats having nothing to do with INDOT. That was held shortly after the significant announcement and turned into a rally for the second stimulus.

[ShawnP]

True about the stimulus as it turns this bridge is not about bad infrastructure but bad inspections.

[hbelkins]

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the inspections. Apparently they knew the crack was there but prior to this time, it was deemed to not be a problem. Not unlike a doctor noticing an unusual mole but deciding not to order a biopsy or its removal unless something changes with it.

[codyg1985]

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the inspections. Apparently they knew the crack was there but prior to this time, it was deemed to not be a problem. Not unlike a doctor noticing an unusual mole but deciding not to order a biopsy or its removal unless something changes with it.

But surely the inspectors figured that the crack would get bigger over time? I don't know what, if anything, could have been done to keep the crack from growing bigger.

I do think the inspectors did their job well in this situation. They found the crack and recommended the bridge closure before anyone was injured or killed. It is inconvenient for many, but the alternative could have been much, much worse.

If I had to place blame here I would blame the INDOT maintenance crew for not keeping the bridge maintained so that things like this could have been prevented.

[mukade]

If I had to place blame here I would blame the INDOT maintenance crew for not keeping the bridge maintained so that things like this could have been prevented.

The facts will come out, but that judgement is currently premature. If there is blame - keep in mind the bridge has reached its design life, it could lie with:
- INDOT inspectors if they didn't follow procedures (if they even inspected this bridge)
- the contractors hired by INDOT if they didn't follow procedures (if contractors did the inspections which is what was said)
- FHWA bridge inspection procedures or requirements could have been lacking

It could be any of the four, a combination, or something else completely. Eventually, any bridge or structure will deteriorate so it could simply be a symptom of age.

If anyone has facts, they can assess blame. Otherwise, it is guesswork at best.

On the size of the crack, didn't they say it has been there since 1962, and they don't know if it grew over time? I personally have no idea, but it will be interesting to hear what the results of further testing will be.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Hm....maybe they can start work on the East End Bridge this weekend. Louisville just better hope that this doens't become like the SR 912 Bridge situation in Northwest Indiana. That one has yet to open and its been close for about a year.

I thought that was closed permanently?

[hbelkins]

Govs. Daniels and Beshear and Victor Mendez from FHWA are having a press conference today. I expect them to announce repair plans.

[ShawnP]

20 million and six months of misery............stay away from Louisville folks. Wonder if they get smart and paint it while it's closed.

http://www.whas.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=283307%3Ffeed%3D283307&article=9187286

[mukade]

Its all in the way you look at it. In addition to the obvious - no collapse, no injuries, in 21 days, they:
- identified the problem and defined a fix that is relatively inexpensive (~$20M)
- are putting it out for bid ASAP (2 weeks or less)
- have approvals from both states, FHWA, and two engineering firms
- have supposedly already ordered the new steel
- gotten funding in place
- will have the bridge in use in months instead of years as a replacement would have required
- will extend the life of bridge for at least 20 years

I'd call this pretty amazing.

[ShawnP]

I'm thinking they knew about it earlier. I'm thinking July 1st as a target date. I would hate to see them cheap it and avoid painting just torture people a few years down the road. The time is now and it will never be as easy. As far as money you just find it and if you don't have extra money for just this reason then shame on KYTC and INDOT.

[ShawnP]

Slap and patch..........no painting just slap some patching on already aging steel. Cheap fix to cheap maintenance thru the decades that lead to a closed Interstate.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20111018/BUSINESS/310180028/1008/NEWS01/Louisville-firm-chosen-repair-Sherman-Minton-Bridge-says-can-done-by-early-March?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News

[mukade]

Cracks misclassified on Sherman Minton Bridge before shutdown (from Louisville Courier-Journal)

So the bridge inspectors definitely were contractors.