Worst control city on an interstate in your state

[Flint1979]

Cities over 1M metro should never be skipped IMO. It's when you get to the smaller metros (200k-500k) where it gets dicey largely depending on how far away it is from a bigger metro.

So I-10 WB in AZ/CA should get San Bernardino rather than Los Angeles?

I count San Bernardino as part of the greater LA area.

If that view is to be regarded as reasonable, virtually no control cities make sense on I-80 in California west of Forest Hill (where the roadway widens to three lanes and basically remains so until well inside San Francisco), nothing would make sense on I-15 much south of the CA/NV border, nothing would make sense on I-5 south of Santa Clarita, and almost none of the 3dis in California would have controls cities that made ANY sense. If San Bernardino is part of the Greater LA area, then Tracy is part of the Greater San Jose or Oakland area and so is Stockton and probably Sacramento as well.

There are breaks in the built-up area between LA and San Bernardino. There are breaks in the built-up area even between Sacramento and Oakland. But, that aside, even in Sacramento, you need to know the difference between Roseville, Folsom, Elk Grove, and Wessac.

It is my understanding that control cities are generally to be used until they are reached. Inside built-up areas, it makes sense to have a "local" destination to get on the right freeway to a suburb or nearby city and a "distant" destination, so that people who are "just passing through" can get where they are going as well. Once out of a built-up area, the "distant" destination is fine which can be combined with a "local" destination, if a minor city pops up.

One reason for the 1960s song "Do You Know the Way to San Jose?" is that, at the time, it didn't show up as a control city until you were nearly in it!

I don't think a control city has to be reached before the control city is changed. There is an example in Michigan on US-127 where Clare is the control city as far south as Lansing, by the time US-127 gets to Mount Pleasant which is about 15 miles south of Clare the control city switches to Mackinac Bridge and keeps Mackinac Bridge as the control city until you get to the bridge.

[bing101]

Cities over 1M metro should never be skipped IMO. It's when you get to the smaller metros (200k-500k) where it gets dicey largely depending on how far away it is from a bigger metro.

So I-10 WB in AZ/CA should get San Bernardino rather than Los Angeles?

I count San Bernardino as part of the greater LA area.

If that view is to be regarded as reasonable, virtually no control cities make sense on I-80 in California west of Forest Hill (where the roadway widens to three lanes and basically remains so until well inside San Francisco), nothing would make sense on I-15 much south of the CA/NV border, nothing would make sense on I-5 south of Santa Clarita, and almost none of the 3dis in California would have controls cities that made ANY sense. If San Bernardino is part of the Greater LA area, then Tracy is part of the Greater San Jose or Oakland area and so is Stockton and probably Sacramento as well.

There are breaks in the built-up area between LA and San Bernardino. There are breaks in the built-up area even between Sacramento and Oakland. But, that aside, even in Sacramento, you need to know the difference between Roseville, Folsom, Elk Grove, and Wessac.

The Bay Area and Los Angeles freeway networks were much more developed by the mid-1950s compared to Sacramento's (which originally started with just US 40/99E along what is now 160 and Business 80) - I think this explains why Bay Area and LA metro control cities are locally oriented, while Sacramento's are almost all long-distance based (given that much of Sacramento's current network outside of old 40 is a product of 1960s projects).

IMO with the growth of Elk Grove, that and Stockton should be signed more out there, but I know that that wouldn't necessarily fit "control cities for long distance drivers only" philosophies mentioned elsewhere by others in this thread.

It is my understanding that control cities are generally to be used until they are reached.

I agree with that, which is why LA as a control for US 101 and I-5 within LA city limits, as much as I get the logic behind it, is a bit wacky.  (There's also one spot where a US 50 onramp is signed for Sacramento just a few blocks from Sacramento State University!)

Inside built-up areas, it makes sense to have a "local" destination to get on the right freeway to a suburb or nearby city and a "distant" destination, so that people who are "just passing through" can get where they are going as well. Once out of a built-up area, the "distant" destination is fine which can be combined with a "local" destination, if a minor city pops up.

One reason for the 1960s song "Do You Know the Way to San Jose?" is that, at the time, it didn't show up as a control city until you were nearly in it!

Funny enough, San Jose still doesn't appear as a mainline US 101 northbound control city at all until Salinas!  Southbound though it is the only control for 101 from the Van Ness Avenue/Central Freeway junction all the way to Route 85 (where it becomes San Jose/Los Angeles).

This reminds me much of how I-80 is signed for San Francisco from Sacramento west to about the Carquinez Bridge, then gets signed for Oakland and SF up to the MacArthur Maze.  Eastbound, 80 is signed only for Oakland from US 101 to the Bay Bridge, then gains Sacramento as a control city in West Oakland (almost always paired with a shorter-distance control like Berkeley or Vallejo or Vacaville).

I remember this one too where a secondary control city is used on I-80 Vacaville and Fairfield. Parts of this is when Solano County was viewed as a place for Bay Area,  and Sacramento to stop for gas however Solano County now has to deal with both Sacramento and Bay Area Commuter traffic because the area has more of a suburban characteristics.
I forgot another CA-99 Northbound has Marysville as a control city once you enter the Natomas area of Sacramento. This is one of the rare cases where D3 Caltrans have a nearby area.
Some of the rare cases where D3 used local control cities are US-50 west Sacramento aiming for the downtown area at I-5 interchange before the control city becomes San Francisco to connect to I-80. Also CA-160 Downtown Sacramento.

[US 89]

^^No sorry, you're right. It was Flint1979 who brought up the "cross-country 2di".

And my point was that why should Raleigh be a control city on I-95 when I-40 already goes through Raleigh. That was my point with the cross country 2di thing as in there is already a major Interstate going through there so no need to sign it as a control city on another major Interstate that doesn't go through there.

Raleigh should not be a control on I-95. If I'm Joe Schmoe randomly driving up the east coast from Miami to NYC or whatever, and I see Raleigh signed on 95, I'm going to expect it to be on the route or at least within 5-10 miles or so. It's over 30 miles away.

[kirbykart]

^^No sorry, you're right. It was Flint1979 who brought up the "cross-country 2di".

And my point was that why should Raleigh be a control city on I-95 when I-40 already goes through Raleigh. That was my point with the cross country 2di thing as in there is already a major Interstate going through there so no need to sign it as a control city on another major Interstate that doesn't go through there.

No, I agree with you 100%, and unlike some people here, I understood what you meant by a cross-country 2di. I just got you mixed up with webny99, sorry.

[Flint1979]

^^No sorry, you're right. It was Flint1979 who brought up the "cross-country 2di".

And my point was that why should Raleigh be a control city on I-95 when I-40 already goes through Raleigh. That was my point with the cross country 2di thing as in there is already a major Interstate going through there so no need to sign it as a control city on another major Interstate that doesn't go through there.

No, I agree with you 100%, and unlike some people here, I understood what you meant by a cross-country 2di. I just got you mixed up with webny99, sorry.

Hey that's all right man no big deal.

[hbelkins]

Someone mentioned the lack of Philadelphia's use of a control city on I-95. I'm beginning to think that Maryland has something against Pennsylvania and doesn't want anyone to travel there. Keep in mind that they're trying to steer traffic onto I-68 and off the PA Turnpike as far away as the greater DC area on I-270.

Of course, Wilmington should be a control on northbound I-95 past Baltimore even before Philly or NYC.

[Ted$8roadFan]

I wonder if Maryland signs New York instead of Wilmington or Philadelphia because a direct route to New York (via the NJ Turnpike) was completed before I-95 in either of the latter two cities - indeed, before the rote for I- 95 was even finalized. Or, it could indeed be a thing against Pennsylvania.

[thspfc]

And my point was that why should Raleigh be a control city on I-95 when I-40 already goes through Raleigh. That was my point with the cross country 2di thing as in there is already a major Interstate going through there so no need to sign it as a control city on another major Interstate that doesn't go through there.

Why does that matter?

Raleigh wouldn't even be my choice for I-95, but this reasoning is nonsense. Some of the control city "guidelines"  seen on here are just dumbfounding.

[bing101]

Someone mentioned the lack of Philadelphia's use of a control city on I-95. I'm beginning to think that Maryland has something against Pennsylvania and doesn't want anyone to travel there. Keep in mind that they're trying to steer traffic onto I-68 and off the PA Turnpike as far away as the greater DC area on I-270.

Of course, Wilmington should be a control on northbound I-95 past Baltimore even before Philly or NYC.

I remember there is post out there that Pennsylvania uses small towns along the way as control cities instead of large cities on the route. Delaware Water Gap, Clarion, Sharon were used as control cities instead of Cleveland and New York as the main control cities for I-80 in Pennsylvania. But then again posting small towns along the way may be used for gas stop reasons as the emphasis here. I know large cities should be used for references for the overall route on a 2di.

[I-55]

Someone mentioned the lack of Philadelphia's use of a control city on I-95. I'm beginning to think that Maryland has something against Pennsylvania and doesn't want anyone to travel there. Keep in mind that they're trying to steer traffic onto I-68 and off the PA Turnpike as far away as the greater DC area on I-270.

Of course, Wilmington should be a control on northbound I-95 past Baltimore even before Philly or NYC.

I remember there is post out there that Pennsylvania uses small towns along the way as control cities instead of large cities on the route. Delaware Water Gap, Clarion, Sharon were used as control cities instead of Cleveland and New York as the main control cities for I-80 in Pennsylvania. But then again posting small towns along the way may be used for gas stop reasons as the emphasis here. I know large cities should be used for references for the overall route on a 2di.

Have both primary and secondary control cities, e.g. Clarion, New York on same sign. Short range sign for local reference, long term destination for regional reference.

[Flint1979]

And my point was that why should Raleigh be a control city on I-95 when I-40 already goes through Raleigh. That was my point with the cross country 2di thing as in there is already a major Interstate going through there so no need to sign it as a control city on another major Interstate that doesn't go through there.

Why does that matter?

Raleigh wouldn't even be my choice for I-95, but this reasoning is nonsense. Some of the control city "guidelines"  seen on here are just dumbfounding.

Because it's not going to take me to that city. If I was on I-95 in North Carolina and saw Raleigh as a control city I would assume I could get to Raleigh by taking I-95. I-95 crosses I-40 so it can be one on I-40, not I-95. What reasoning is nonsense?

[kirbykart]

Changing the topic...
I know some people don't like Jamestown as a control city on I-86/NY-17, but I think it's fine, maybe that's a bit of local bias.

[thenetwork]

Changing the topic...
I know some people don't like Jamestown as a control city on I-86/NY-17, but I think it's fine, maybe that's a bit of local bias.

Heading west as late as the mid 80s, Jamestown was about the farthest the freeway ran before it was super-2ed and later finished as a full freeway toward PA.

Coming from the west, Jamestown is perfectly fine from I-90.

[thenetwork]

"Borrowing" an idea from another thread, I'd like to nominate the LACK of a control city on I-469, both north and south.

NB I-469 is an easy fix for most of the way:  Toledo.  But past US-24 East, it gets tricky.

SB I-469 is a toss-up: Lima (US-30) or Columbus (US-33).  Past that, Indianapolis is a slam dunk the rest of the way.

It should be Lansing and Indianapolis on I-469.

Lansing is another questionable control city for NB I-469 around the north of town...Most traffic at that point is likely westbound traffic for US 24 and US 30.  It probably make more sense to use Columbia City, Valparaiso, or Chicago -- whatever the control city is for the US-30 West exit off of I-69.

[jp the roadgeek]

Changing the topic...
I know some people don't like Jamestown as a control city on I-86/NY-17, but I think it's fine, maybe that's a bit of local bias.

Jamestown was pretty much the de facto end of the Southern Tier expressway before PA built its part to connect to the New York dead end.  One can make the argument for Erie westbound from Corning (or from Binghamton for I-99 frowners), or for Binghamton eastbound from I-90 in PA.  You'd have a better case for the latter when NYSDOT finally designates the portion from the Waverly dip to I-81 as I-86. 

[Flint1979]

"Borrowing" an idea from another thread, I'd like to nominate the LACK of a control city on I-469, both north and south.

NB I-469 is an easy fix for most of the way:  Toledo.  But past US-24 East, it gets tricky.

SB I-469 is a toss-up: Lima (US-30) or Columbus (US-33).  Past that, Indianapolis is a slam dunk the rest of the way.

It should be Lansing and Indianapolis on I-469.

Lansing is another questionable control city for NB I-469 around the north of town...Most traffic at that point is likely westbound traffic for US 24 and US 30.  It probably make more sense to use Columbia City, Valparaiso, or Chicago -- whatever the control city is for the US-30 West exit off of I-69.

The point of NB I-469 at least IMO is that the traffic is going to reconnect to NB I-69 since it's a child of I-69. US-24 and US-30 should honestly have signs telling you to take NB I-469 to SB I-69 for WB and NB I-69 to SB I-469 for EB to stay on the route.

[hobsini2]

Cities over 1M metro should never be skipped IMO. It's when you get to the smaller metros (200k-500k) where it gets dicey largely depending on how far away it is from a bigger metro.

So I-10 WB in AZ/CA should get San Bernardino rather than Los Angeles?

San Bernardino, IMO, is still part of LA Metro. Sign it LA.

[hobsini2]

Changing the topic...
I know some people don't like Jamestown as a control city on I-86/NY-17, but I think it's fine, maybe that's a bit of local bias.

Heading west as late as the mid 80s, Jamestown was about the farthest the freeway ran before it was super-2ed and later finished as a full freeway toward PA.

Coming from the west, Jamestown is perfectly fine from I-90.

Jamestown isn't that far from I-90 in PA. I would do Jamestown as a secondary and have Elmira, which is a bigger metro with Corning than Jamestown and has an interstate junction, as the primary if you are not going to go straight out with Binghamton.

[webny99]

Changing the topic...
I know some people don't like Jamestown as a control city on I-86/NY-17, but I think it's fine, maybe that's a bit of local bias.

Heading west as late as the mid 80s, Jamestown was about the farthest the freeway ran before it was super-2ed and later finished as a full freeway toward PA.

Coming from the west, Jamestown is perfectly fine from I-90.

Jamestown isn't that far from I-90 in PA. I would do Jamestown as a secondary and have Elmira, which is a bigger metro with Corning than Jamestown and has an interstate junction, as the primary if you are not going to go straight out with Binghamton.

Combining Corning and Elmira is a bit of a stretch. There's scattered development along the corridor, especially east of Big Flats, but it's otherwise very rural. Corning has the interstate junction and is already used on I-390, so that makes more sense IMO.

[bulldog1979]

I found an interesting document from MDOT online: Guidelines for Signing on State Trunkline Highways last updated in October 2020. If you turn to page 19, there's a listing of the major and minor control destinations for Michigan's freeways. (The non freeways are on the next three pages.) That list does not include "Mackinac Bridge". Instead, I-75 has Mackinaw City and St. Ignace in the minor controls list. US 127 has Grayling as its northernmost minor control.

[I-55]

"Borrowing" an idea from another thread, I'd like to nominate the LACK of a control city on I-469, both north and south.

NB I-469 is an easy fix for most of the way:  Toledo.  But past US-24 East, it gets tricky.

SB I-469 is a toss-up: Lima (US-30) or Columbus (US-33).  Past that, Indianapolis is a slam dunk the rest of the way.

It should be Lansing and Indianapolis on I-469.

Lansing is another questionable control city for NB I-469 around the north of town...Most traffic at that point is likely westbound traffic for US 24 and US 30.  It probably make more sense to use Columbia City, Valparaiso, or Chicago -- whatever the control city is for the US-30 West exit off of I-69.

The point of NB I-469 at least IMO is that the traffic is going to reconnect to NB I-69 since it's a child of I-69. US-24 and US-30 should honestly have signs telling you to take NB I-469 to SB I-69 for WB and NB I-69 to SB I-469 for EB to stay on the route.

US-24 and US-30 are signed along the portions you described, already fulfilling this purpose. FW isn't like Indy or Lafayette where everything got truncated or an unsigned concurrency.

If I-469 had control cities, it'd be ideal to use up to 2 at any given point, for instance

(NB,SB)
0-19: New Haven/Toledo, Indianapolis/Huntington (optional)
19-21: Toledo/Chicago, Indianapolis
21-31: Chicago/Lansing, Toledo/New Haven

[GaryV]

I found an interesting document from MDOT online: Guidelines for Signing on State Trunkline Highways last updated in October 2020. //

They didn't update it much. M-6 is still listed as "pending completion".

Also, on I-696 I don't think I've seen any of those minor control cities. I have seen Southfield.

[hobsini2]

Changing the topic...
I know some people don't like Jamestown as a control city on I-86/NY-17, but I think it's fine, maybe that's a bit of local bias.

Heading west as late as the mid 80s, Jamestown was about the farthest the freeway ran before it was super-2ed and later finished as a full freeway toward PA.

Coming from the west, Jamestown is perfectly fine from I-90.

Jamestown isn't that far from I-90 in PA. I would do Jamestown as a secondary and have Elmira, which is a bigger metro with Corning than Jamestown and has an interstate junction, as the primary if you are not going to go straight out with Binghamton.

Combining Corning and Elmira is a bit of a stretch. There's scattered development along the corridor, especially east of Big Flats, but it's otherwise very rural. Corning has the interstate junction and is already used on I-390, so that makes more sense IMO.

Corning is fine. I just think more have heard of Elmira than Corning. But I'm good with either.

[Flint1979]

I found an interesting document from MDOT online: Guidelines for Signing on State Trunkline Highways last updated in October 2020. //

They didn't update it much. M-6 is still listed as "pending completion".

Also, on I-696 I don't think I've seen any of those minor control cities. I have seen Southfield.

Some of those are wrong too. I noticed M-13 has Flint as a control city. That is not the case, Lansing is the control city south of Saginaw.

[Flint1979]

I found an interesting document from MDOT online: Guidelines for Signing on State Trunkline Highways last updated in October 2020. //

They didn't update it much. M-6 is still listed as "pending completion".

Also, on I-696 I don't think I've seen any of those minor control cities. I have seen Southfield.

Also a little below that they talk about the "SPECIFIC SERVICE (LOGO) SIGNING PROGRAM." They have Bill Knapp's as one of the Food choices at exit 104.