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UCLA and USC move to Big 10

Started by Roadgeekteen, July 08, 2022, 01:19:38 AM

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Do you support the USC and UCLA move to the Big 10?

Yes
3 (9.7%)
No
20 (64.5%)
I don't care
8 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 31

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2022, 12:03:48 AM
Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?
Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

So why doesn't something like the NCAA (not necessarily the NCAA itself because it sucks) handle the scheduling nationwide?

Prior to 1990, conferences were really just groups of similar schools in similar parts of the country, and their functions were as much academic as they were athletic. There were also dozens of independent schools. From 1982-1989, 7 of the 8 national championships were won by independents.

As ESPN grew in distribution throughout the 1980s, the number of games on national TV also grew. Conferences were a stable source of games for TV networks looking to show larger numbers of games, so conferences started getting TV deals that generated more revenue than independent schools could on their own.

In 1991, Florida State joined the ACC and all of the major eastern independent schools minus Penn State joined the Big East, which hadn't previously had a football league. In 1992, South Carolina joined the SEC, who also raided the SWC for Arkansas. That single domino really kicked off (pun intended) the conference realignment shell game that continues today.

The NCAA is a voluntary organization. They can only impose rules that its members are willing to live by. With TV network money being the driving factor that makes college football go, and conferences being the vehicles by which that money gets distributed, the strongest conferences really hold all the cards when it comes to making the rules for the top level of college football.
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mgk920

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 09, 2022, 06:10:06 AM
I wonder if these moves have anything to do with the new NIL (name, image, likeness) controversies now that the student-athlete compensation genie has left the bottle.

And that compensation will likely, IMHO, also be subject to all of the rules of Title IX, bringing us all that much closer to the end of of competitive, (ie, NCAA, intercollegiate and even interscholastic/High School) sports and their replacement with the overseas private sports club model, including promotion and relegation.  Few, if any current schools will be able to afford and have athletic departments under that.  I can see no other long term outcome.  Any bets on ow long this pending conference change will endure?

Mike

CoreySamson

I think the real problem (that others have mentioned) is that each conferences and colleges are fighting over money. You get better recruits, you win more games, you get more money. You have a popular team from another conference join yours, you get more publicity, you get more money. You invite an FCS team to play a cupcake game in your stadium, they pay for the exposure, you get more money. You expand your stadium, you get more capacity for fans, you get more money. You join a new conference, you get a larger TV market, you get more money.

I think it's time that CFB puts aside money and actually focuses on giving the fans and players what they want. What do the fans want? Here's what I would want, for example.

- Less Bowl Games (or find a way to make them more interesting)
It's clear to me that bowl games are ruining the sport. Instead of giving your players and team a chance to shine in a nationally televised game, regardless of where your team is from, now bowl games have turned into a meaningless formality that players skip because of how pointless they are. Do you really want to play in the Camellia Bowl, in the great tourist destination of Montgomery, Alabama, against some other crappy 6-6 Middle Westeastern State team? Of course not! Maybe we should turn the concept of bowl games into end-of-the-year tournaments or invitationals (sort of like the NIT) of 4 to 8 teams that actually mean something. Plus they should be a bit more exclusive.

- Rethink Football Conferences
Football conferences need to be rethought. Conferences should likely be a bit smaller and not contain divisions. I also would not want conference championship games if that (and the bowl game invitational idea) is the case. I also see no reason for football and other college sports to share the same conferences.

- Larger Playoff
This would be beating a dead horse. Already expounded upon all over the internet.

- More P5 vs. P5 Non-Conference Games And Less Cupcake Games
Sure, having a tune-up game for stronger teams is fine, but please make it against G5 competition, not FCS (maybe G5 teams could use FCS teams as their tune-up). In addition, I would like to see something like the SEC-Big 12 challenge in NCAAB for football for every conference (and rotate the conferences every year to keep it interesting). Match up teams based on last year's placement and watch the good times roll. It makes teams' SoS look better, too.

- Revival Of Certain Rivalries
I wish that certain rivalries like LSU-Tulane, Texas-Texas A&M, and Kansas-Missouri could be played every year again, even if the teams end up in separate conferences.
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NWI_Irish96

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Less Bowl Games (or find a way to make them more interesting)
It's clear to me that bowl games are ruining the sport. Instead of giving your players and team a chance to shine in a nationally televised game, regardless of where your team is from, now bowl games have turned into a meaningless formality that players skip because of how pointless they are. Do you really want to play in the Camellia Bowl, in the great tourist destination of Montgomery, Alabama, against some other crappy 6-6 Middle Westeastern State team? Of course not! Maybe we should turn the concept of bowl games into end-of-the-year tournaments or invitationals (sort of like the NIT) of 4 to 8 teams that actually mean something. Plus they should be a bit more exclusive.

So every bowl game, even the most minor one, comes with additional days of practice you don't get if you don't make a bowl game. That's a huge edge in getting your non-graduating players ready for next year, so even the worst destination for a bowl game is better than no bowl game.

Now, there are ways to improve it. As it is now, the first weekend after Thanksgiving is reserved for conference championship games and the next weekend is reserved for the Army-Navy game. Let's move the mid-major conference championship games to Thanksgiving weekend so they can start their bowl games earlier and we can get them more spread out.


Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Rethink Football Conferences
Football conferences need to be rethought. Conferences should likely be a bit smaller and not contain divisions. I also would not want conference championship games if that (and the bowl game invitational idea) is the case. I also see no reason for football and other college sports to share the same conferences.

The ship has sailed on this. TV money is going to dictate conference alignments.


Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Larger Playoff
This would be beating a dead horse. Already expounded upon all over the internet.

This will eventually get to 8 teams but the current round of conference musical chairs needs to settle first.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- More P5 vs. P5 Non-Conference Games And Less Cupcake Games
Sure, having a tune-up game for stronger teams is fine, but please make it against G5 competition, not FCS (maybe G5 teams could use FCS teams as their tune-up). In addition, I would like to see something like the SEC-Big 12 challenge in NCAAB for football for every conference (and rotate the conferences every year to keep it interesting). Match up teams based on last year's placement and watch the good times roll. It makes teams' SoS look better, too.

This would be nice but there's no way to force this unless all of the other conferences gang up on one. Alabama hasn't played a game outside of an SEC state or California since 2011. The only games they play against other P5 teams are at "neutral' sites in the south and never against Top Tier P5 teams.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Revival Of Certain Rivalries
I wish that certain rivalries like LSU-Tulane, Texas-Texas A&M, and Kansas-Missouri could be played every year again, even if the teams end up in separate conferences.

So Texas and A&M will be in the same conference again so that rivalry probably returns. Nebraska-Oklahoma, Pitt-West Virginia are two that I'd like to see come back. Ones that we might lose depending on how all this realignment shakes out are Cal-Stanford, Oregon-Oregon St, and Oklahoma-Oklahoma St
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1995hoo

The top out-of-conference rivalry I'd like to see return to UVA's schedule is the annual non-conference game against VPI.  :biggrin:
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SP Cook

IMHO,

- More or less, two of the major sports use colleges as their prep leagues, basketball and football.  Two use minor leagues, baseball and hockey.  And minor league baseball makes, well, 10s of $$.  Minor league hockey less than that.  The secret to college sports is two groups of people at the opposite end of society in most other respects.  One, the "red" side, are people, most of whom never went to college, or at least to the college in question, who are fans of this or that team because it is named for their state, or in some cases city.  People convinced that Kentucky, or North Carolina, or LSU, or Ohio State is somehow "us".  The other, the "blue" side, are the children of privilege, who, out of the 1000s of college choices they have, self-select themselves to places like Duke, or Villanova, or Gonzaga, so that they can spend 4 years conducting themselves like hooligans and the remainder of their lives, sit around the country club and talk about how "we" beat "you" to their rich buddies.  All based on the feats of people who would not be allowed on campus if they didn't play sports.  Take those two things away, and does anybody really care?  Kill the last vestiage of Kansas somehow being the team for Kansans to root for, and is it any more than the AA team in Wichita?  Take away the idea that Duke is somehow a part of Duke, is it any more than a G-League team in Durham, NC?

- It seems that there are two reasons to pay players.  One is, well, capitalism.  I give player A X$$ and my sales go up by more than X$$.  That, does not seem to be happening.  Rather is the other.  I am a big fan of State U, and I giver player A X$$ because I want him to go to State U and beat Tech.  OK.  But why?  Kill the connection between the school and the booster, and why wouldn't a booster just not buy a pro team where he can run it and be known.  Quick, name the top 30 boosters of any college team, or for that matter 30 college boosters.  But most people know at least that many pro sports owners. 

thspfc

#31
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
I think it's time that CFB puts aside money and actually focuses on giving the fans and players what they want. What do the fans want?
Pfft. I think we've all been on this earth long enough to realize that money is the single deciding factor in almost everything that large, rich entities do.

College football is not going to make the changes that a lot of us want until it is financially logical for them to do so. If we keep watching, they're going to continue to turn the sport into Walmart NFL. The answer is to stop watching and stop supporting it, because that's how you hit them in the only place it actually hurts - the bottom line.

Roadgeekteen

We need someone to be the boss of the schools. IDK who.
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Roadwarriors79

One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.
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JayhawkCO

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

I wouldn't be so sure on KU never getting a Big 10 invite. There have been a great many rumors over the past 5 years. After Notre Dame, which other Midwestern university would be more attractive? I get football isn't great yet, but the fan base is very much there.

ilpt4u

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.
If the ACC were to dissolve at some point, I could see Duke working its way into the Big East, and either dropping football entirely or playing football only in a smaller G5 conference

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 10, 2022, 09:20:21 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

I wouldn't be so sure on KU never getting a Big 10 invite. There have been a great many rumors over the past 5 years. After Notre Dame, which other Midwestern university would be more attractive? I get football isn't great yet, but the fan base is very much there.

I don't think the BIG is really interested in more Midwestern markets. Aside from ND, their main targets are probably other Pac 12 schools.
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Big John

ND is already in the B1G in men's hockey.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 09:22:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 10, 2022, 09:20:21 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

I wouldn't be so sure on KU never getting a Big 10 invite. There have been a great many rumors over the past 5 years. After Notre Dame, which other Midwestern university would be more attractive? I get football isn't great yet, but the fan base is very much there.

I don't think the BIG is really interested in more Midwestern markets. Aside from ND, their main targets are probably other Pac 12 schools.

But the LA schools don't want that. Their main recruiting competitors are Oregon and Washington. There is zero chance they want them in the Big 10. If they wanted them, they would have already been invited to come with.

ET21

Quote from: Big John on July 10, 2022, 09:23:43 PM
ND is already in the B1G in men's hockey.

Most of the other sports are in the ACC and their football has a modified ACC heavy schedule. Would be a decent overhaul
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amroad17

We are never going to see conference play such as the Big 8 and Pac 8 of the 1970's, the ACC and Big East of the 1980's, and the SEC of the 1990's among the major college teams.  If one wants to watch longer term rivalry matchups, one would have to watch Division I-AA, err FCS games, which seem to have retained some semblance of normalcy of conference stabilization.

Even some of the mid-major conference currently have some wonky geographical set-ups.  For example, Creighton (Omaha) plays in the Big East along with some of original members St. John's, Providence, Villanova, and Georgetown.  Another is Southern Methodist University (Dallas) playing in the American Athletic Conference with Temple, East Carolina, and South Florida.

What may happen is that the Power 5 becomes the Power 4 since the Pac-10 (or 12, whatever) is losing two of its most recognizable schools.  Then college football may get what it wanted all along, champions from the 4 major conferences participating in the College Football Playoffs.  This may lead to a Group of 6 instead of the Group of 5 to headline many of the New Year's Day Bowl Games.

Anyway, all of us know the motivational factor for college programs to switch conferences: $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$.  Screw the long-term rivalries--see the green.
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skluth

Quote from: mgk920 on July 09, 2022, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 09, 2022, 06:10:06 AM
I wonder if these moves have anything to do with the new NIL (name, image, likeness) controversies now that the student-athlete compensation genie has left the bottle.

And that compensation will likely, IMHO, also be subject to all of the rules of Title IX, bringing us all that much closer to the end of of competitive, (ie, NCAA, intercollegiate and even interscholastic/High School) sports and their replacement with the overseas private sports club model, including promotion and relegation.  Few, if any current schools will be able to afford and have athletic departments under that.  I can see no other long term outcome.  Any bets on ow long this pending conference change will endure?

Mike

Title IX prohibits discrimination based on sex in education programs and activities if the school receives federal funding (which is all NCAA schools) which effectively requires schools to equally fund women's athletics. NIL is money going directly to players from private businesses though schools may be walking tightropes to make sure boosters remain independent from any school involvement. Private businesses do not have to support female athletes equally in their commercials and endorsements though it's cool Jonquel Jones (State Farm) and Megan Rapinoe (Subway) are making commercials usually featuring just men. FWIW, Caitlin Clark may end up with more in NIL money than any other Iowa athlete, male or female.

NWI_Irish96

The BIG is finalizing an unprecedented deal that will put games on FOX at Noon, CBS at 3:30 and NBC at 7:30/8:00 (all times ET). Deal would begin in Fall 2023 and put the rest of the games on FS1, BTN and Peacock, with the same networks getting rights to basketball as well.
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mgk920

Maybe I'll just listen to Badgers games on my AM radio, instead.  The pictures are a lot clearer that way, anyways.

:nod:

Mike

ran4sh

The Big Ten should commit to getting away from Disney/ABC/ESPN for all sports, not just the major ones. Leave more programming space on the Disney networks for SEC etc.
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NWI_Irish96

Quote from: ran4sh on August 09, 2022, 12:45:10 PM
The Big Ten should commit to getting away from Disney/ABC/ESPN for all sports, not just the major ones. Leave more programming space on the Disney networks for SEC etc.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 09, 2022, 12:00:00 PM
The BIG is finalizing an unprecedented deal that will put games on FOX at Noon, CBS at 3:30 and NBC at 7:30/8:00 (all times ET). Deal would begin in Fall 2023 and put the rest of the games on FS1, BTN and Peacock, with the same networks getting rights to basketball as well.

The BIG is, in fact, moving away from ESPN/Disney for all sports. Just announced a $7 billion deal with FOX/CBS/NBC. 2023 will be a transition year, but beginning in 2024, there will be three games on national broadcast networks every Saturday from Labor Day weekend to Thanksgiving weekend, plus two games on Black Friday and of course the BIG Championship game (which the three networks will share).

Peacock gets a limited selection of streaming-only games. FS1 gets a slate of games, and BTN gets the rest. FOX, CBS, FS1, BTN and Peacock also get basketball games.

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SP Cook

- Disney (ESPN) has had, for decades, a policy.  To the extent it is possible, if ESPN doesn't have rights to that league, it does not get mentioned.  Yes, they have to cover some big things, like the NCAA basketball or who won the World Series, but regular day in day out stuff just get ignored. Ex: NHL for 20 years.  Now, I haven't watched Sports Center in years, but people do, and it does matter. 

- CBS made a H U G E mistake.  It walked away from a similar priced deal with the SEC, which will now be 100% on the Disney networks, and then realized it had nothing to show on Saturdays in the fall and got in with the Big 10.  The Big 10 will be crushed in the ratings by the SEC, every week.



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