Here comes I-685...
I would take it all the way to I-40 (East of I-95). Although I think there's more major projects that should be done first.
https://nccarolinacore.com/
https://rantnc.com/2021/11/19/infrastructure-bill-clears-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-carolina-core/
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 20, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
Here comes I-685...
I would take it all the way to I-40 (East of I-95). Although I think there's more major projects that should be done first.
https://nccarolinacore.com/
https://rantnc.com/2021/11/19/infrastructure-bill-clears-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-carolina-core/
Dunn is pretty close to I-40, about 15 miles depending on how the road comes in. It would be an easy extension.
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
It would almost make more sense to me for it to be a southern extension of 785.
Egads.
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 20, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
North Carolina is probably Fritzowl's favorite state.
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.
There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.
Megasite map for those interested: http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite (http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite)
Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.
There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.
Both of NC's Republican Senators voted for the infrastructure bill despite scathing criticism from Trump. I'm not a fan of I-685, but that's how politics is supposed to work when it's not derailed by partisanship.
Anyone who opposes it is welcome to do so politically at the state level.
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 20, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
FWIW, the message of North Carolina's interstate extensions is, "We are serious about infrastructure to support economic development." It may or may not be effective in the end but it is highly visible and may attract favorable attention to the state.
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Very true, but there's a big difference in PR. Four-landing US 17, even freeway sections, doesn't attract much notice outside the immediate area. Building new interstates like I-42 is much easier to sell nationally as a major step forward.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 22, 2021, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Very true, but there's a big difference in PR. Four-landing US 17, even freeway sections, doesn't attract much notice outside the immediate area. Building new interstates like I-42 is much easier to sell nationally as a major step forward.
Which is why I'm in favor of a shield design for US/State routes that denote freeway sections as a freeway (like pictured below), so those can get about the same hype and credit as interstate highways.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 15, 2021, 04:07:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WM1ksGA.png)
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
True, but it puts a label on the freeway and denotes it's a full freeway roadway.
The current roadway between Greensboro and Fayetteville (US-421 and NC-87) is definitely not close to being a full freeway. Having that I-685 designation combined with physical upgrades will show what it is.
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:37:27 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 22, 2021, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Very true, but there's a big difference in PR. Four-landing US 17, even freeway sections, doesn't attract much notice outside the immediate area. Building new interstates like I-42 is much easier to sell nationally as a major step forward.
Which is why I'm in favor of a shield design for US/State routes that denote freeway sections as a freeway (like pictured below), so those can get about the same hype and credit as interstate highways.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 15, 2021, 04:07:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WM1ksGA.png)
But that's not a real thing - therefore you get the interstate designation instead.
IMO, a freeway corridor linking the Greensboro metropolitan area with the Fayetteville metropolitan area, along with I-95 to I-85, is a perfectly warranted interstate highway, regardless.
Added the 'NC' to the title of the thread, just so there was 0 confusion in the future due to the other 'Future' I-685 in AL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_685_in_Alabama).
Quote from: Tom958 on November 21, 2021, 07:12:41 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.
There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.
Both of NC's Republican Senators voted for the infrastructure bill despite scathing criticism from Trump. I'm not a fan of I-685, but that's how politics is supposed to work when it's not derailed by partisanship.
Anyone who opposes it is welcome to do so politically at the state level.
It does appear that the temperature of the masses in NC is to bring home the bacon.
Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.
There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.
Megasite map for those interested: http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite (http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite)
Looks like it's all but confirmed at this point.
https://greensboro.com/business/local/after-toyota-reports-surface-corps-of-engineers-files-public-notice-of-grading-the-greensboro-randolph/article_ebafba82-4bd9-11ec-be1c-c7d19f7b4aac.html#tracking-source=home-top-story (https://greensboro.com/business/local/after-toyota-reports-surface-corps-of-engineers-files-public-notice-of-grading-the-greensboro-randolph/article_ebafba82-4bd9-11ec-be1c-c7d19f7b4aac.html#tracking-source=home-top-story)
Imagine if US 33 northwest of Columbus became I-370 solely because of the Honda plant in Marysville :-D
Guess Honda doesn't really care about direct interstate access to their plants compared to Toyota.
At least Detroit's Big 3 is already covered in that area. GM alone had at least two plants off I-65: the former Saturn one in Spring Hill, TN (south of Nashville, which also doubled as its headquarters), and the Corvette-building one in Bowling Green, KY (which is still going strong today).
As for this I-685, I suspect that it will last longer than the one in Montgomery, especially if AL signs off on the I-14 corridor that may one day result in the truncation of I-85 to just west of GA.
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 22, 2021, 11:38:37 PM
True, but it puts a label on the freeway and denotes it's a full freeway roadway.
The current roadway between Greensboro and Fayetteville (US-421 and NC-87) is definitely not close to being a full freeway. Having that I-685 designation combined with physical upgrades will show what it is.
Let me preface this by saying, making this interstate corridor a priority is dumb. This is not what the state should be focusing on from a transportation perspective.
That said, while Sanford to Fayetteville (on NC 87) or Dunn (on US 421) would need complete reconstruction and probably some significant bypasses/new routes, Greensboro to Sanford is *very* close to a full freeway. There's a ~7 mile stretch between Old Liberty Rd (exit 183) and NC 62 (exit 190) with 4 at grade intersections. Could be fixed with a single interchange and perhaps two grade separations. This is comparable to what NCDOT did on US 70/I-42 in Pine Level. Basically, the sort of thing NCDOT whacks out in their sleep.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freprehensible.net%2F%7Eorulz%2F421.png&hash=7bac00527fcba61cd856ec4c9311bb98d164d7e0)
Now, I do
not like driving this stretch of 421 in the rain. The pavement doesn't drain well, maybe it isn't crowned properly, I'm not sure - but it feels dangerous. Too many spots where you feel close to hydroplaning. I feel like this condition would not be acceptable on an interstate, so I wouldn't mind them taking the opportunity to deal with it. Shoulders are not interstate standard, though, so that would take some money and work to fix as well.
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 23, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Imagine if US 33 northwest of Columbus became I-370 solely because of the Honda plant in Marysville :-D
Guess Honda doesn't really care about direct interstate access to their plants compared to Toyota.
US-33 isn't connecting to anything major.
Connecting Greensboro and Fayetteville is a reasonable interstate corridor.
Quote from: Henry on November 23, 2021, 10:11:58 AM
At least Detroit's Big 3 is already covered in that area. GM alone had at least two plants off I-65: the former Saturn one in Spring Hill, TN (south of Nashville, which also doubled as its headquarters), and the Corvette-building one in Bowling Green, KY (which is still going strong today).
As for this I-685, I suspect that it will last longer than the one in Montgomery, especially if AL signs off on the I-14 corridor that may one day result in the truncation of I-85 to just west of GA.
I-85 will never be truncated. It will end at I-65 as usual or extended to I-20/I-59. I-14 is not going outside Texas anytime soon.
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.
The only thing I really dislike is the number. "685" would traditionally mean its a loop, but a loop around what? Raleigh? In that case it would make more sense as I-640. Someone else said it but I feel like it would make more sense as I-785 extension or I-373 or something (given it somewhat parallels I-73).
On another note, I could see this eventually becoming the justification for an I-87 southern extension to Sanford.
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the
parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
QuoteOn another note, I could see this eventually becoming the justification for an I-87 southern extension to Sanford.
If I-87 were extended down US-1, it would more likely end at I-73/I-74 in Rockingham.
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
If history has any say in the matter, vacationers will decide whether to use I-685 and then take NC-55 from Dunn over to I-40 as an alternate route. If they do this the way they did the Mount Airy -to- Lexington -to- Rockingham -to- Myrtle Beach pattern, NCDOT will eventually need to fill in the gap.
Now I'm thinking about it, this I-685 would be better numbered as I-38, so we can make fun of a short 2di that has a similar role as I-12, as well that its orphaned 3di exists in the opposite side of the country :bigass:
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 27, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
Now I'm thinking about it, this I-685 would be better numbered as I-38, so we can make fun of a short parent 2di that has a similar role as I-12, as well that its orphaned 3di exists in the opposite side of the country :bigass:
A 2-digit interstate would be better if it would be extended further out of North Carolina!
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 27, 2021, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
If history has any say in the matter, vacationers will decide whether to use I-685 and then take NC-55 from Dunn over to I-40 as an alternate route. If they do this the way they did the Mount Airy -to- Lexington -to- Rockingham -to- Myrtle Beach pattern, NCDOT will eventually need to fill in the gap.
This thing was designed by politicians, not by NCDOT. I predict NCDOT will want to do the extension to I_40.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 27, 2021, 06:03:29 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 27, 2021, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
If history has any say in the matter, vacationers will decide whether to use I-685 and then take NC-55 from Dunn over to I-40 as an alternate route. If they do this the way they did the Mount Airy -to- Lexington -to- Rockingham -to- Myrtle Beach pattern, NCDOT will eventually need to fill in the gap.
This thing was designed by politicians, not by NCDOT. I predict NCDOT will want to do the extension to I_40.
As I said in my first post. Why end at I-95? Take it all the way to I-40!
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 27, 2021, 05:39:09 PM
If history has any say in the matter, vacationers will decide whether to use I-685 and then take NC-55 from Dunn over to I-40 as an alternate route. If they do this the way they did the Mount Airy -to- Lexington -to- Rockingham -to- Myrtle Beach pattern, NCDOT will eventually need to fill in the gap.
I think to some extent it will be determined if the highway meets 95 north or south of Dunn. If it's north of Dunn, it will be faster to take 95N/40E, and while that adds miles, 95 will be able to handle the traffic after it's reconstruction. If it's south of Dunn then it's faster to take 55 and that might cause a problem.
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-87 were extended down US-1, it would more likely end at I-73/I-74 in Rockingham.
Perhaps, but NCDOT has wanted to put an interstate on the Raleigh-Sanford section of US 1 for a while, and doing so would be pretty easy. I was only referring to that.
^ If this highway will truly connect to I-40 east of I-95, then it definitely should hold an I-x40 designation, given it will effectively (yes, not technically on the west end) link to I-40 on either side.
I-685 makes sense if it's to take a more logical Greensboro to Fayetteville routing using NC-87 south of Sanford.
If I-685 does TRULY get extended to I-40, then it can eliminate the need to widen I-40 to six lanes from Benson to Clayton!
It might also eliminate the need to add toll lanes on I-40... As well as the I-40/I-85 concurrency...
But I agree. I-640 would be a better number than I-685.
This proposal does remind me of jumping back on the idea of making a freeway from Lexington to Apex so you can bypass Greensboro completely hmm??
~Tolbs
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 28, 2021, 12:40:22 PM
If I-685 does TRULY get extended to I-40, then it can eliminate the need to widen I-40 to six lanes from Benson to Clayton!
It might also eliminate the need to add toll lanes on I-40... As well as the I-40/I-85 concurrency...
But I agree. I-640 would be a better number than I-685.
This proposal does remind me of jumping back on the idea of making a freeway from Lexington to Apex so you can bypass Greensboro completely hmm??
~Tolbs
I bet the Lexington to Apex freeway will become reality someday. Dunn has a population of only 10,000 and it's going to be the terminus of an interstate. Lexington has 20,000 people so why not them too?
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029. Just need a couple bypasses of Siler City and Ramseur, and widen US 64 to 4 lanes from Asheboro to Lexington.
Quote from: RoadPelican on November 29, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
I bet the Lexington to Apex freeway will become reality someday. Dunn has a population of only 10,000 and it's going to be the terminus of an interstate. Lexington has 20,000 people so why not them too?
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029. Just need a couple bypasses of Siler City and Ramseur, and widen US 64 to 4 lanes from Asheboro to Lexington.
Well technically you could say Lexington is the terminus of I-285, so theres that. In all seriousness, as much as I was supportive of 87, 42, and 587, even to a degree this 685 proposal, I feel like a Lexington-Raleigh Interstate might be overkill. I can see the merits of it as a reliever on I-40/85. But, it begs the question of how many Interstates is enough. I know what you said was more or less speculation but I'm sure its been talked about.
Quote from: RoadPelican on November 29, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029.
I was under the impression this was to be a hybrid and not a full freeway. Have things changed recently?
Yes, it's planned to be a hybrid superstreet, with some interchanges. An eventual full freeway conversion is conceivable, though it's not likely to ever become an interstate (hills and vertical curves would be very expensive to remedy)
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 29, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: RoadPelican on November 29, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
I bet the Lexington to Apex freeway will become reality someday. Dunn has a population of only 10,000 and it's going to be the terminus of an interstate. Lexington has 20,000 people so why not them too?
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029. Just need a couple bypasses of Siler City and Ramseur, and widen US 64 to 4 lanes from Asheboro to Lexington.
Well technically you could say Lexington is the terminus of I-285, so theres that. In all seriousness, as much as I was supportive of 87, 42, and 587, even to a degree this 685 proposal, I feel like a Lexington-Raleigh Interstate might be overkill. I can see the merits of it as a reliever on I-40/85. But, it begs the question of how many Interstates is enough. I know what you said was more or less speculation but I'm sure its been talked about.
I agree, and I honestly never thought I-685 would actually happen, given that it fell on deaf ears when the locals pitched it to NCDOT a few years ago, likely due to the cost and work involved. Amazing what happens when the state is desperate for an auto plant.
Quote from: LM117 on November 30, 2021, 08:07:54 AM
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 29, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: RoadPelican on November 29, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
I bet the Lexington to Apex freeway will become reality someday. Dunn has a population of only 10,000 and it's going to be the terminus of an interstate. Lexington has 20,000 people so why not them too?
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029. Just need a couple bypasses of Siler City and Ramseur, and widen US 64 to 4 lanes from Asheboro to Lexington.
Well technically you could say Lexington is the terminus of I-285, so theres that. In all seriousness, as much as I was supportive of 87, 42, and 587, even to a degree this 685 proposal, I feel like a Lexington-Raleigh Interstate might be overkill. I can see the merits of it as a reliever on I-40/85. But, it begs the question of how many Interstates is enough. I know what you said was more or less speculation but I'm sure its been talked about.
I agree, and I honestly never thought I-685 would actually happen, given that it fell on deaf ears when the locals pitched it to NCDOT a few years ago, likely due to the cost and work involved. Amazing what happens when the state is desperate for an auto plant.
Both the county and North Carolina Railroad own all that land they want to put an auto plant at, so yea. Also, those are good paying jobs and would be a boost to the area.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on November 30, 2021, 08:20:53 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 30, 2021, 08:07:54 AM
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 29, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: RoadPelican on November 29, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
I bet the Lexington to Apex freeway will become reality someday. Dunn has a population of only 10,000 and it's going to be the terminus of an interstate. Lexington has 20,000 people so why not them too?
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029. Just need a couple bypasses of Siler City and Ramseur, and widen US 64 to 4 lanes from Asheboro to Lexington.
Well technically you could say Lexington is the terminus of I-285, so theres that. In all seriousness, as much as I was supportive of 87, 42, and 587, even to a degree this 685 proposal, I feel like a Lexington-Raleigh Interstate might be overkill. I can see the merits of it as a reliever on I-40/85. But, it begs the question of how many Interstates is enough. I know what you said was more or less speculation but I'm sure its been talked about.
I agree, and I honestly never thought I-685 would actually happen, given that it fell on deaf ears when the locals pitched it to NCDOT a few years ago, likely due to the cost and work involved. Amazing what happens when the state is desperate for an auto plant.
Both the county and North Carolina Railroad own all that land they want to put an auto plant at, so yea. Also, those are good paying jobs and would be a boost to the area.
I wasn't knocking the plant. I was just surprised at how quickly the tune changed once Toyota started making noise.
Quote from: LM117 on November 30, 2021, 08:27:41 AM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on November 30, 2021, 08:20:53 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 30, 2021, 08:07:54 AM
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 29, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: RoadPelican on November 29, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
I bet the Lexington to Apex freeway will become reality someday. Dunn has a population of only 10,000 and it's going to be the terminus of an interstate. Lexington has 20,000 people so why not them too?
NCDOT is planning to upgrade US 64 to a freeway in Cary starting in 2029. Just need a couple bypasses of Siler City and Ramseur, and widen US 64 to 4 lanes from Asheboro to Lexington.
Well technically you could say Lexington is the terminus of I-285, so theres that. In all seriousness, as much as I was supportive of 87, 42, and 587, even to a degree this 685 proposal, I feel like a Lexington-Raleigh Interstate might be overkill. I can see the merits of it as a reliever on I-40/85. But, it begs the question of how many Interstates is enough. I know what you said was more or less speculation but I'm sure its been talked about.
I agree, and I honestly never thought I-685 would actually happen, given that it fell on deaf ears when the locals pitched it to NCDOT a few years ago, likely due to the cost and work involved. Amazing what happens when the state is desperate for an auto plant.
Both the county and North Carolina Railroad own all that land they want to put an auto plant at, so yea. Also, those are good paying jobs and would be a boost to the area.
I wasn't knocking the plant. I was just surprised at how quickly the tune changed once Toyota started making noise.
I don't think the tune changed, if they tried to go through NCDOT again they would have likely been rejected again on the idea. All they did was skip the local level by having it Congressionally mandated, so now they have no choice but to either figure it out or explain why it cannot be done.
^ Won't be hard to do the latter. NCDOT's finances are much worse now than they were even a year or two ago. Adding unfunded "mandates" is not going to help that.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 22, 2021, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 20, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
FWIW, the message of North Carolina's interstate extensions is, "We are serious about infrastructure to support economic development." It may or may not be effective in the end but it is highly visible and may attract favorable attention to the state.
Yeah especially since the new budget will end all state coroporate tax by 2030 (2.75% now), and personal state income tax will lower to a final 3.99% also.
As long as they keep planting trees for an an attractive landscape it's ok, but i see too much clear cutting and am worried about what makes NC a beautiful state in which to live.
Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.
There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.
Megasite map for those interested: http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite (http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite)
The governor and Toyota just confirmed the battery plant location at the megasite. Guess that explains I-685...
https://governor.nc.gov/news/press-releases/2021/12/06/governor-cooper-announces-toyota-will-build-companys-first-north-american-battery-plant-north (https://governor.nc.gov/news/press-releases/2021/12/06/governor-cooper-announces-toyota-will-build-companys-first-north-american-battery-plant-north)
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-selects-north-carolina-greensboro-randolph-site-for-new-u-s-automotive-battery-plant/ (https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-selects-north-carolina-greensboro-randolph-site-for-new-u-s-automotive-battery-plant/)
I just thought of the corridor of US 421 (proposed I-685) from Greensboro to Dunn/I-40 as a bypass of the Research Triangle.
Quote from: CoolAngrybirdsrio4 on December 17, 2021, 09:50:57 PM
I just thought of the corridor of US 421 (proposed I-685) from Greensboro to Dunn/I-40 as a bypass of the Research Triangle.
Now it's official thanks to the Toyota plant!
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 17, 2021, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: CoolAngrybirdsrio4 on December 17, 2021, 09:50:57 PM
I just thought of the corridor of US 421 (proposed I-685) from Greensboro to Dunn/I-40 as a bypass of the Research Triangle.
Now it's official thanks to the Toyota plant!
Thanks for the update!
Quote from: CoolAngrybirdsrio4 on December 17, 2021, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 17, 2021, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: CoolAngrybirdsrio4 on December 17, 2021, 09:50:57 PM
I just thought of the corridor of US 421 (proposed I-685) from Greensboro to Dunn/I-40 as a bypass of the Research Triangle.
Now it's official thanks to the Toyota plant!
Thanks for the update!
No problem, anytime man.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 22, 2021, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 20, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
FWIW, the message of North Carolina's interstate extensions is, "We are serious about infrastructure to support economic development." It may or may not be effective in the end but it is highly visible and may attract favorable attention to the state.
And further, the 421 Corridor from Greensboro to 95 has been on North Carolina's wish list for Interstate extensions since the 1960s. A lot of North Carolina Interstate authorizations/requests/whathaveyou are very similar to various proposals they requested over 50 years ago.
Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.
The only thing I really dislike is the number. "685" would traditionally mean its a loop, but a loop around what? Raleigh? In that case it would make more sense as I-640. Someone else said it but I feel like it would make more sense as I-785 extension or I-373 or something (given it somewhat parallels I-73).
On another note, I could see this eventually becoming the justification for an I-87 southern extension to Sanford.
There are really no rules on "connector" interstate which this, and 495 was before it became 87. Nationally, there are connectors that are odd and connectors that are even. NC has gone with even under the idea it connects 'two' interstates. 795, unless requested differently, will be an exception to NC using an even for a connector.
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
Quote from: Thing 342 on December 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
Yes but I-74 is not complete and if it was taken to I-40, it would create an additional bypass for Greensboro residents. As well as the ones that live in Mount Airy and beyond I-74 like in Wytheville.
Quote from: Thing 342 on December 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
Not really, I-74 has an awkward route from High Point, going due south to US 74, then east to wherever the hell its supposed to end. For an effective wide Triangle bypass, it would've made sense to send I-74 down US 421 SE of Greensboro, to at least I-95 in Dunn, then maybe a small bit of new route or follow NC 55 to connect with I-40 near Newton Grove.
Thats what I wouldve done at least.
Quote from: fillup420 on December 31, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on December 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
Not really, I-74 has an awkward route from High Point, going due south to US 74, then east to wherever the hell its supposed to end. For an effective wide Triangle bypass, it would've made sense to send I-74 down US 421 SE of Greensboro, to at least I-95 in Dunn, then maybe a small bit of new route or follow NC 55 to connect with I-40 near Newton Grove.
Thats what I wouldve done at least.
The current route from Greensboro to the Port of Wilmington via I-40 is 212 miles.
A hypothetical I-685 routing following US-421 from Greensboro to I-40 in roughly the Benson area is 203 miles.
A routing using I-74 and US-74 is 216 miles.
I-685 would save 13 miles over I-74 in this case. If both routes are 70mph freeways this difference seems negligible. For traffic coming from Winston-Salem and northwest I-74 has the advantage of avoiding Greensboro as well.
Quote from: Thing 342 on December 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
No. I-74 is proposed to go to Myrtle Beach (or Wilmington) It has always been proposed to follow I-73 south from Randleman to Rockingham.
I-685 was a part of the corridor that has been proposed to run from Greensboro to Fayetteville (YES, I said Fayetteville because it was supposed to end at the proposed Fayetteville Outer Loop (I-295). I still have no idea why it is being changed to Dunn or why it did not go down to Fayetteville.
If they really want I-685 to run from Greensboro to Dunn, it should just extend it to I-40 near Newton Grove (assuming the dotted line is a straight shot from I-95 to I-40).
With all the construction delays North Carolina is having with their existing and future Interstates, I think we may have to wait a very long time for this segment of US 421 to be converted into Interstate 685. I speculate it might not happen until the 2030s or the 2040s at the earliest.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 31, 2021, 08:56:05 PM
With all the construction delays North Carolina is having with their existing and future Interstates, I think we may have to wait a very long time for this segment of US 421 to be converted into Interstate 685. I speculate it might not happen until the 2030s or the 2040s at the earliest.
Personally, I'd rather for my state to finish current construction that has been delayed too many times. i.e. I-26 Connector, etc. instead of trying to add new or future construction unless the demand is too great. If I am the governor, I'd fire whoever made these decisions that caused all the construction delay mess.
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
Quote from: Thing 342 on December 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
Quote from: CanesFan27 on December 30, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
And further, the 421 Corridor from Greensboro to 95 has been on North Carolina's wish list for Interstate extensions since the 1960s. A lot of North Carolina Interstate authorizations/requests/whathaveyou are very similar to various proposals they requested over 50 years ago.
The whole US-421/I-685 situation has me curious about how I-74 got routed to Wilmington via Rockingham. Historically, folks from the Great Lakes used I-77//US-52//US-64//US-220 to get to Myrtle Beach, and US-74 from that corridor was a much easier route to Wilmington than the hodge-podge trying to access US-117 or US-421 from Raleigh. But after completion of I-40, none of those routes makes any sense. But the US-421 corridor does make a great bypass around the Triangle for folks originating west/north of the Upper Triad (Greensboro/Winston-Salem). That certainly would make a better route for I-74, even if it ends at I-95 near Dunn.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 01, 2022, 10:18:15 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.
Quote from: Thing 342 on December 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Isn't this movement already being addressed by I-74?
Quote from: CanesFan27 on December 30, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
And further, the 421 Corridor from Greensboro to 95 has been on North Carolina's wish list for Interstate extensions since the 1960s. A lot of North Carolina Interstate authorizations/requests/whathaveyou are very similar to various proposals they requested over 50 years ago.
The whole US-421/I-685 situation has me curious about how I-74 got routed to Wilmington via Rockingham. Historically, folks from the Great Lakes used I-77//US-52//US-64//US-220 to get to Myrtle Beach, and US-74 from that corridor was a much easier route to Wilmington than the hodge-podge trying to access US-117 or US-421 from Raleigh. But after completion of I-40, none of those routes makes any sense. But the US-421 corridor does make a great bypass around the Triangle for folks originating west/north of the Upper Triad (Greensboro/Winston-Salem). That certainly would make a better route for I-74, even if it ends at I-95 near Dunn.
I think you just gave me my next topic to research. How the 73 and 74 corridors came to be. 74 is kinda bits and pieces of various requests. Thanks! I was trying to think of some NC stories I haven't touched yet
Quote from: orulz on November 23, 2021, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 22, 2021, 11:38:37 PM
True, but it puts a label on the freeway and denotes it's a full freeway roadway.
The current roadway between Greensboro and Fayetteville (US-421 and NC-87) is definitely not close to being a full freeway. Having that I-685 designation combined with physical upgrades will show what it is.
Let me preface this by saying, making this interstate corridor a priority is dumb. This is not what the state should be focusing on from a transportation perspective.
That said, while Sanford to Fayetteville (on NC 87) or Dunn (on US 421) would need complete reconstruction and probably some significant bypasses/new routes, Greensboro to Sanford is *very* close to a full freeway. There's a ~7 mile stretch between Old Liberty Rd (exit 183) and NC 62 (exit 190) with 4 at grade intersections. Could be fixed with a single interchange and perhaps two grade separations. This is comparable to what NCDOT did on US 70/I-42 in Pine Level. Basically, the sort of thing NCDOT whacks out in their sleep.
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Now, I do not like driving this stretch of 421 in the rain. The pavement doesn't drain well, maybe it isn't crowned properly, I'm not sure - but it feels dangerous. Too many spots where you feel close to hydroplaning. I feel like this condition would not be acceptable on an interstate, so I wouldn't mind them taking the opportunity to deal with it. Shoulders are not interstate standard, though, so that would take some money and work to fix as well.
I've traveled the US 421 / NC 87 route since the 90s, for as long as I can remember there has never been that much traffic between Greensboro and Sanford, I've always thought that US 421 is the longest and most boringest road I've ever traveled on. I honestly don't think it needs to be an interstate, I think it serves the Fayetteville - Greensboro route just fine as it is.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 17, 2022, 07:36:24 PM
I've traveled the US 421 / NC 87 route since the 90s, for as long as I can remember there has never been that much traffic between Greensboro and Sanford, I've always thought that US 421 is the longest and most boringest road I've ever traveled on. I honestly don't think it needs to be an interstate, I think it serves the Fayetteville - Greensboro route just fine as it is.
If NCDOT does construct a new freeway between Sanford and Dunn, it would create a more direct route from Greensboro to Fayetteville and the Wilmington port. A preferable alternative to reach I-95 as oppose to driving through Raleigh. It would get busy.
crossposted to the North Carolina thread and the I-685 North Carolina thread:
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 17, 2022, 07:41:56 PM
Side note: What is the deal with those NC Core signs? Whenever I drove past them over Thanksgiving, I feel like I spend more time than I should have trying to understand what it meant. I understand the purpose of those signs are more advertising than informational, which I don't like a-la those blue signs in New York.
It's actually "NC Carolina Core", and it is the new commercial development zone entity in Central Carolina between I-77 and I-95 that is routed along I-40 from Statesville to Greensboro, over the southwest part of the Greensboro Urban Loop (I-73 and a tad of new I-85) and US-421 (future I-685). This connects Winston-Salem to the new Greensboro megasites by bypassing Greensboro proper, which has some huge political undertones that haven't made the press yet. I haven't seen any of these signs yet, but it wouldn't surprise me that they are cluttered with info.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 17, 2022, 07:36:24 PMI've traveled the US 421 / NC 87 route since the 90s, for as long as I can remember there has never been that much traffic between Greensboro and Sanford, I've always thought that US 421 is the longest and most boringest road I've ever traveled on. I honestly don't think it needs to be an interstate, I think it serves the Fayetteville - Greensboro route just fine as it is.
Not fine enough for Toyota, apparently.
Out of the three Interstate 685's (AL, SC, NC) suggested and proposed, I don't think any of them will come into fruition anytime soon.
Just remember that the mission for almost 75 years has been to bring a modern, 4 lane, divided highway to within 10 miles of 96% of the state's population.
That's a tall order for one of the most dispersed populations 2nd only to Pennsylvania in population that's still considered in a rural area not part of a metropolitan area.
That's why there are so many "near interstate standards" highways criss-crossing virtually every county.
I also don't understand this is being a huge priority except for the Toyota battery plant.
I have a friend in LA who has listened to me talk about NC for 25 years, and he hasn't yet ever visited. I think about what he would think riding along with me home as I come from Atlanta via NC49/US64 between Charlotte and Raleigh because it's not indicative of a state with almost 11,000,000 people.
The good thing is having alternatives to I-85/I-40 that traverse the state East to West because I-85 is just too crowded and it's arching shape adds miles and time that I'd rather avoid.
Quote from: Strider on December 31, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 31, 2021, 08:56:05 PM
With all the construction delays North Carolina is having with their existing and future Interstates, I think we may have to wait a very long time for this segment of US 421 to be converted into Interstate 685. I speculate it might not happen until the 2030s or the 2040s at the earliest.
Personally, I'd rather for my state to finish current construction that has been delayed too many times. i.e. I-26 Connector, etc. instead of trying to add new or future construction unless the demand is too great. If I am the governor, I'd fire whoever made these decisions that caused all the construction delay mess.
The problem is NC's gas tax which isn't rising. Gas in SC and GA cost more today, and they aren't prolific road builders like NC is.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 18, 2022, 01:43:30 PM
Out of the three Interstate 685's (AL, SC, NC) suggested and proposed, I don't think any of them will come into fruition anytime soon.
Well, Alabama's I-685 is
already done. It's the secret designation for what is still signed I-85 from the I-65/Day St interchange at I-685's western end to I-685's eastern end where I-85 will head south on current AL SR 108 looping around the south side of Montgomery.
.
South Carolina's 685? Is that a proposal for BUS 85 in Spartanburg once it's rebuilt to standards?
Quote from: sturmde on February 18, 2022, 06:04:36 PM
South Carolina's 685? Is that a proposal for BUS 85 in Spartanburg once it's rebuilt to standards?
It was a proposal by local leaders down there that got shot down by the state 20 years ago. There are no active and official proposals for I-685 in South Carolina from what I've been able to find. Perhaps The Ghostbuster could share his source.
Quote from: froggie on February 18, 2022, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: sturmde on February 18, 2022, 06:04:36 PM
South Carolina's 685? Is that a proposal for BUS 85 in Spartanburg once it's rebuilt to standards?
It was a proposal by local leaders down there that got shot down by the state 20 years ago. There are no active and official proposals for I-685 in South Carolina from what I've been able to find. Perhaps The Ghostbuster could share his source.
If anything, Bus I-85 in Sparty should be down-graded in a few places and turn it into the arterial surface corridor it functionally is.
Yes, I was referring to the failed 2000 proposal to renumber Business 85 in Spartanburg to Interstate 685. I stand by my statement though. The only way Interstate 685 will come into fruition in Alabama is when/if the AL 108 (future Interstate 85) Montgomery Bypass is completed. There likely won't be any 685s in South Carolina either. As for the proposed Interstate 685 in North Carolina, even if the US 421 corridor is upgraded into a freeway between Interstate 85 and Interstate 40, I think making it Interstate 685 is overkill. Then again, this is North Carolina, so I could be wrong.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 18, 2022, 10:25:53 PM
As for the proposed Interstate 685 in North Carolina, even if the US 421 corridor is upgraded into a freeway between Interstate 85 and Interstate 40, I think making it Interstate 685 is overkill. Then again, this is North Carolina, so I could be wrong.
NC had trouble landing auto makers in the past. There was no way in hell they were gonna let another opportunity slip away easily. Toyota wanted immediate interstate access for their battery plant, so naturally, the state gave it to them. That's why 421's future interstate status was rushed into the infrastructure bill. Right or wrong, to not do so would've been political suicide.
This also means that, contrary to popular belief (particularly on this forum), some companies DO care about having nearby interstate access. That's why I-shields are still used as marketing tools.
Quote from: LM117 on February 19, 2022, 07:19:21 AM
NC had trouble landing auto makers in the past. There was no way in hell they were gonna let another opportunity slip away easily. Toyota wanted immediate interstate access for their battery plant, so naturally, the state gave it to them. That's why 421's future interstate status was rushed into the infrastructure bill. Right or wrong, to not do so would've been political suicide.
Given how much NC has on their plate, I question whether Toyota will have "immediate" access to the interstate any time soon. But I guess perception is going to take a while to catch up to the reality of modern future interstate corridors taking decades to get built if they even get constructed at all.
Quote from: vdeane on February 19, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: LM117 on February 19, 2022, 07:19:21 AM
NC had trouble landing auto makers in the past. There was no way in hell they were gonna let another opportunity slip away easily. Toyota wanted immediate interstate access for their battery plant, so naturally, the state gave it to them. That's why 421's future interstate status was rushed into the infrastructure bill. Right or wrong, to not do so would've been political suicide.
Given how much NC has on their plate, I question whether Toyota will have "immediate" access to the interstate any time soon. But I guess perception is going to take a while to catch up to the reality of modern future interstate corridors taking decades to get built if they even get constructed at all.
Of course it will be a long time before I-685 is completed, given that we don't even know the route for some of it. OTOH the distance from the Toyota site to I-85 bypass south of Greensboro is only about 12 miles and US 421 is limited access, close to interstate standards, over that distance. So simply providing the plant with "immediate" internet access shouldn't be difficult. I'm sure the plant will need a dedicated exit from 421/Future 685, but I'm also sure NCDOT will provide that.
US-421 between I-85 and Siler City is mostly freeway, with a few intersections near where the megasite is located. Those would need to be closed off with possibly one or two interchanges, along with the mainline shoulders widened to 10 feet and a resurfacing overall.
The road itself is fully limited access with no private driveways.
That would likely be a first project that could lead to an I-685 designation being posted between I-85 and US-64.
I'm still 50/50 on my opinion of the route south of Sanford. I still believe it should follow NC-87 to end at I-295 in Fayetteville, providing that direct connection between Fayetteville and Greensboro, however I can also see the benefit of following US-421 all the way back to Dunn / I-95 / possibly I-40, to provide an outer bypass of Raleigh for I-40 through traffic. That would not address Fayetteville though, as traffic heading there would either get off I-685 at Sanford and continue taking arterial NC-87, or follow an indirect route dumping onto I-95 at Dunn then following the soon-to-be 8 lane interstate to Fayetteville.
Upgrading NC-87 would also provide a second interstate / freeway connection between Fayetteville and Raleigh, via US-1 at Sanford.
Quote from: architect77 on February 18, 2022, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: Strider on December 31, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 31, 2021, 08:56:05 PM
With all the construction delays North Carolina is having with their existing and future Interstates, I think we may have to wait a very long time for this segment of US 421 to be converted into Interstate 685. I speculate it might not happen until the 2030s or the 2040s at the earliest.
Personally, I'd rather for my state to finish current construction that has been delayed too many times. i.e. I-26 Connector, etc. instead of trying to add new or future construction unless the demand is too great. If I am the governor, I'd fire whoever made these decisions that caused all the construction delay mess.
The problem is NC's gas tax which isn't rising. Gas in SC and GA cost more today, and they aren't prolific road builders like NC is.
NC's gas tax isn't rising, but it's still higher than SC's and GA's tax. GA used to have one of the lowest gas taxes, so it had a lot of space to rise and still be below NC.
If Toyota wanted direct interstate access, couldn't they locate their plant along I-73? Somewhere around Randleman looks like it would be ideal for them.
Regarding I-685 reaching Fayetteville, I don't see an easy way for I-685 to get there since Fort Bragg / Pope AAF / Simmons AAF already occupy much of the land north of Fayetteville. Maybe it could arc around to somewhere around I-295 & US 401 but then you might as well bring it out to I-95. But I don't support treating interstates as some magic jobs wand.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 19, 2022, 07:53:06 PM
If Toyota wanted direct interstate access, couldn't they locate their plant along I-73? Somewhere around Randleman looks like it would be ideal for them.
Regarding I-685 reaching Fayetteville, I don't see an easy way for I-685 to get there since Fort Bragg / Pope AAF / Simmons AAF already occupy much of the land north of Fayetteville. Maybe it could arc around to somewhere around I-295 & US 401 but then you might as well bring it out to I-95. But I don't support treating interstates as some magic jobs wand.
Doesn't NCDOT already have early plans for a Spring Lake bypass? North of there, it would be easy to upgrade NC 87.
Quote from: Roadsguy on February 19, 2022, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 19, 2022, 07:53:06 PM
If Toyota wanted direct interstate access, couldn't they locate their plant along I-73? Somewhere around Randleman looks like it would be ideal for them.
Regarding I-685 reaching Fayetteville, I don't see an easy way for I-685 to get there since Fort Bragg / Pope AAF / Simmons AAF already occupy much of the land north of Fayetteville. Maybe it could arc around to somewhere around I-295 & US 401 but then you might as well bring it out to I-95. But I don't support treating interstates as some magic jobs wand.
Doesn't NCDOT already have early plans for a Spring Lake bypass? North of there, it would be easy to upgrade NC 87.
Not sure about a bypass, but when they rerouted NC 24 & 87 onto the Murchinson Road freeway, the Spring Lake section of Bragg Blvd got widened to 8-lanes from Fort Bragg to where NC 210 breaks off, it looks like Independence Blvd in Charlotte.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 19, 2022, 07:53:06 PM
If Toyota wanted direct interstate access, couldn't they locate their plant along I-73? Somewhere around Randleman looks like it would be ideal for them.
Regarding I-685 reaching Fayetteville, I don't see an easy way for I-685 to get there since Fort Bragg / Pope AAF / Simmons AAF already occupy much of the land north of Fayetteville. Maybe it could arc around to somewhere around I-295 & US 401 but then you might as well bring it out to I-95. But I don't support treating interstates as some magic jobs wand.
This. Why didn't Toyota locate their plant along I-73? That is something I have been puzzled for time being. Maybe it was because there wasn't a land available along I-73 (or I-74 for that matter)?
Where along Interstate 73 should a Toyota factory be built? Or should a Toyota factory be built in North Carolina at all?
The crews are planning to begin blasting construction as early at this week. Get ready...
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2022/2022-03-08-greensboro-randolph-liberty-megasite-blasting.aspx
Edited to add: Here are the conceptual plans for the area.
https://www.ljbinc.com/project/greensboro-randolph-megasite/
Quote from: Strider on February 20, 2022, 07:09:49 PM
This. Why didn't Toyota locate their plant along I-73? That is something I have been puzzled for time being. Maybe it was because there wasn't a land available along I-73 (or I-74 for that matter)?
No brainer. I-73 is not located along any major trucking corridor. The proposed I-685 would connect to three major ones (Northeast to Atlanta, Carolinas to Breadbasket and Northeast to Florida) plus fair access to the Great Lakes. If Raleigh hadn't grown so huge overnight, it would have made more sense to build a megasite somewhere in Alamance County along the I-85/I-40 mulitplex. But swift trucking access to the I-95 corridor via Raleigh doesn't make sense anymore.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 08, 2022, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: Strider on February 20, 2022, 07:09:49 PM
This. Why didn't Toyota locate their plant along I-73? That is something I have been puzzled for time being. Maybe it was because there wasn't a land available along I-73 (or I-74 for that matter)?
No brainer. I-73 is not located along any major trucking corridor. The proposed I-685 would connect to three major ones (Northeast to Atlanta, Carolinas to Breadbasket and Northeast to Florida) plus fair access to the Great Lakes. If Raleigh hadn't grown so huge overnight, it would have made more sense to build a megasite somewhere in Alamance County along the I-85/I-40 mulitplex. But swift trucking access to the I-95 corridor via Raleigh doesn't make sense anymore.
Wouldn't a complete I-73 link to I-95 South more directly than I-685 would?
Quote from: Strider on February 20, 2022, 07:09:49 PM
This. Why didn't Toyota locate their plant along I-73? That is something I have been puzzled for time being. Maybe it was because there wasn't a land available along I-73 (or I-74 for that matter)?
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 08, 2022, 03:45:22 PM
No brainer. I-73 is not located along any major trucking corridor. The proposed I-685 would connect to three major ones (Northeast to Atlanta, Carolinas to Breadbasket and Northeast to Florida) plus fair access to the Great Lakes. If Raleigh hadn't grown so huge overnight, it would have made more sense to build a megasite somewhere in Alamance County along the I-85/I-40 mulitplex. But swift trucking access to the I-95 corridor via Raleigh doesn't make sense anymore.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 08, 2022, 05:03:07 PM
Wouldn't a complete I-73 link to I-95 South more directly than I-685 would?
Only if South Carolina nearly finishes its portion before Toyota completes its megasite factory (three years, maybe less). US-421 in central North Carolina only needs a Dunn bypass to become suitable for substantial truck traffic. It's a good 40 miles or so from the Rockingham Bypass down to I-95 won't be suitable for truck traffic until almost all of it gets four-laned. But to your credit, I still can't get it out of my head that I-73 isn't running from Chadbourn to Tabor City.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 08, 2022, 06:41:31 PM
Only if South Carolina nearly finishes its portion before Toyota completes its megasite factory (three years, maybe less). US-421 in central North Carolina only needs a Dunn bypass to become suitable for substantial truck traffic. It's a good 40 miles or so from the Rockingham Bypass down to I-95 won't be suitable for truck traffic until almost all of it gets four-laned.
Only Rockingham to Bennettsville is still 2 lane, roughly 18 miles.
The route from there south to I-95 is 5 lane or 4 lane divided highway.
But nonetheless, I-73 is a far higher quality and more desired ultimate product.
QuoteBut to your credit, I still can't get it out of my head that I-73 isn't running from Chadbourn to Tabor City.
That would provide a much less efficient connection to I-95 South from the Greensboro area.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 08, 2022, 06:41:31 PM
But to your credit, I still can't get it out of my head that I-73 isn't running from Chadbourn to Tabor City.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 08, 2022, 07:05:00 PM
That would provide a much less efficient connection to I-95 South from the Greensboro area.
Definitely not. The original Great Lakes to Myrtle Beach route via Mt. Airy, Winston-Salem, Lexington, Asheboro, Rockingham, Chadbourn and Tabor City (from which I-74/I-73 is based) is not a good trucking route to get to I-95. But it still works better than the other routes that most folks take to get to Myrtle Beach.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 08, 2022, 06:41:31 PM
Only if South Carolina nearly finishes its portion before Toyota completes its megasite factory (three years, maybe less). US-421 in central North Carolina only needs a Dunn bypass to become suitable for substantial truck traffic. It's a good 40 miles or so from the Rockingham Bypass down to I-95 won't be suitable for truck traffic until almost all of it gets four-laned.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 08, 2022, 07:05:00 PM
Only Rockingham to Bennettsville is still 2 lane, roughly 18 miles.
I had no idea. Ducky uses Apple Maps, which still shows this as a two-lane corridor. But if you zoom in on the satellite image, voila! That won't be such a bad truck route.
Today Governor Cooper announced that the VinFast Corporation will build a plant in Moncure to build electric cars. Moncure is close to the US 1 freeway north of Sanford, which would be convenient to the proposed I-685. It's not clear whether the proposed interstate played any role in the siting decision, but it may encourage NCDOT to get working on the design of I-685.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/03/29/what-the-4b-vinfast-plant-means-for-the-triangle-and-the-state/
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 29, 2022, 07:02:33 PM
Today Governor Cooper announced that the VinFast Corporation will build a plant in Moncure to build electric cars. Moncure is close to the US 1 freeway north of Sanford, which would be convenient to the proposed I-685. It's not clear whether the proposed interstate played any role in the siting decision, but it may encourage NCDOT to get working on the design of I-685.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/03/29/what-the-4b-vinfast-plant-means-for-the-triangle-and-the-state/
Next AASHTO meeting will have a new request to make US 1 between Cary and Sanford into an Interstate, probably.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on March 29, 2022, 10:57:25 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 29, 2022, 07:02:33 PM
Today Governor Cooper announced that the VinFast Corporation will build a plant in Moncure to build electric cars. Moncure is close to the US 1 freeway north of Sanford, which would be convenient to the proposed I-685. It's not clear whether the proposed interstate played any role in the siting decision, but it may encourage NCDOT to get working on the design of I-685.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/03/29/what-the-4b-vinfast-plant-means-for-the-triangle-and-the-state/
Next AASHTO meeting will have a new request to make US 1 between Cary and Sanford into an Interstate, probably.
Calling it now: I-87 extension to US-74 in Rockingham via I-40 & US-1.
Quote from: LM117 on March 30, 2022, 08:40:23 AM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on March 29, 2022, 10:57:25 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 29, 2022, 07:02:33 PM
Today Governor Cooper announced that the VinFast Corporation will build a plant in Moncure to build electric cars. Moncure is close to the US 1 freeway north of Sanford, which would be convenient to the proposed I-685. It's not clear whether the proposed interstate played any role in the siting decision, but it may encourage NCDOT to get working on the design of I-685.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/03/29/what-the-4b-vinfast-plant-means-for-the-triangle-and-the-state/
Next AASHTO meeting will have a new request to make US 1 between Cary and Sanford into an Interstate, probably.
Calling it now: I-87 extension to US-74 in Rockingham via I-40 & US-1.
I can see it happen too. The last time they tried to turn that into an interstate, they wanted to call it I-340 (IIRC), and got rejected. Maybe this time it'll be different, and in Rockingham it will meet up with I-73/I-74.
Would it really be necessary though? North Carolina has enough Interstates as it is. The planned I-685 will serve Sanford anyway. Not everything needs to be an Interstate, says NCDOT.
Quote from: LM117 on March 30, 2022, 08:40:23 AMCalling it now: I-87 extension to US-74 in Rockingham via I-40 & US-1.
Beyond that to Charlotte along US74, surely?
Quote from: english si on March 30, 2022, 02:21:08 PM
Quote from: LM117 on March 30, 2022, 08:40:23 AMCalling it now: I-87 extension to US-74 in Rockingham via I-40 & US-1.
Beyond that to Charlotte along US74, surely?
Not likely. At Rockingham I-73/I-74 will also be there (someday), thus making an easy begin/end point. That's is, of course, assuming AASHTO will go along with it.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on March 29, 2022, 10:57:25 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 29, 2022, 07:02:33 PM
Today Governor Cooper announced that the VinFast Corporation will build a plant in Moncure to build electric cars. Moncure is close to the US 1 freeway north of Sanford, which would be convenient to the proposed I-685. It's not clear whether the proposed interstate played any role in the siting decision, but it may encourage NCDOT to get working on the design of I-685.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/03/29/what-the-4b-vinfast-plant-means-for-the-triangle-and-the-state/
Next AASHTO meeting will have a new request to make US 1 between Cary and Sanford into an Interstate, probably.
I wouldn't get too excited about this. NCDOT has plenty of interstate conversion commitments already. Unless politicians start beating the drums for converting US 1 to an interstate, NCDOT isn't likely to suggest it.
If an I-87 extension is pursued, NC should seek to extend the corridor to the SC state line. I-87 could function in similar fashion to I-81 as a truck bypass of major metro areas. Regional mobility would benefit from a Charlotte and Atlanta bypass 20-30 years from now. An I-87 extension to Sanford is low hanging fruit that should be pursued in the near term.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 30, 2022, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on March 29, 2022, 10:57:25 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 29, 2022, 07:02:33 PM
Today Governor Cooper announced that the VinFast Corporation will build a plant in Moncure to build electric cars. Moncure is close to the US 1 freeway north of Sanford, which would be convenient to the proposed I-685. It's not clear whether the proposed interstate played any role in the siting decision, but it may encourage NCDOT to get working on the design of I-685.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/03/29/what-the-4b-vinfast-plant-means-for-the-triangle-and-the-state/
Next AASHTO meeting will have a new request to make US 1 between Cary and Sanford into an Interstate, probably.
I wouldn't get too excited about this. NCDOT has plenty of interstate conversion commitments already. Unless politicians start beating the drums for converting US 1 to an interstate, NCDOT isn't likely to suggest it.
And even then, it's no guarantee that it'll happen. Like you said, NCDOT already has their hand full, and they ignored the counties along US-421 a few years ago when they were pushing for it's upgrade, presumably for that very reason.
I doubt NCDOT was thrilled when both senators shoved US-421's upgrade into the infrastructre bill at Toyota's request.
Quote from: tjcreasy on March 30, 2022, 06:20:38 PM
If an I-87 extension is pursued, NC should seek to extend the corridor to the SC state line. I-87 could function in similar fashion to I-81 as a truck bypass of major metro areas. Regional mobility would benefit from a Charlotte and Atlanta bypass 20-30 years from now. An I-87 extension to Sanford is low hanging fruit that should be pursued in the near term.
I also do not see this happening. South Carolina is unable to build I-73 now and the routing would only be a duplicate of that one.
North Carolina probably has too many existing and future Interstate designations at present. Why wouldn't they want to add some more?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 31, 2022, 01:23:43 PM
North Carolina probably has too many existing and future Interstate designations at present. Why wouldn't they want to add some more?
I think it's time to retire North Carolina's title as MIOS (Most Internet Obsessed State). That title belongs to Texas now.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 31, 2022, 06:24:44 PMI think it's time to retire North Carolina's title as MIOS (Most Internet Obsessed State). That title belongs to Texas now.
In 2018, Texas was third behind Oregon and New Jersey. Uh, you did say Internet didn't you? :hmmm:
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 31, 2022, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 31, 2022, 06:24:44 PMI think it's time to retire North Carolina's title as MIOS (Most Internet Obsessed State). That title belongs to Texas now.
In 2018, Texas was third behind Oregon and New Jersey. Uh, you did say Internet didn't you? :hmmm:
Darn. Let's try that again: I think it's time to retire North Carolina's title as MIOS (Most
Interstate Obsessed State). That title belongs to Texas now.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on March 31, 2022, 12:05:20 AM
Quote from: tjcreasy on March 30, 2022, 06:20:38 PM
If an I-87 extension is pursued, NC should seek to extend the corridor to the SC state line. I-87 could function in similar fashion to I-81 as a truck bypass of major metro areas. Regional mobility would benefit from a Charlotte and Atlanta bypass 20-30 years from now. An I-87 extension to Sanford is low hanging fruit that should be pursued in the near term.
I also do not see this happening. South Carolina is unable to build I-73 now and the routing would only be a duplicate of that one.
Respectfully, how would an extended I-87 towards Columbia duplicate I-73's routing through SC?
There is no guarantee that the southern Interstate 87 will ever be extended beyond Interstate 40 in Raleigh (although if is ever proposed to extend southward along the US 1 corridor, I would have no objections to it doing so). So until such a proposal is ever made, save it for Fictional Highways.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 31, 2022, 08:26:32 PM
There is no guarantee that the southern Interstate 87 will ever be extended beyond Interstate 40 in Raleigh (although if is ever proposed to extend southward along the US 1 corridor, I would have no objections to it doing so). So until such a proposal is ever made, save it for Fictional Highways.
Just what I was gonna talk about.
Possible I87 could go on the southern beltline, curve to the west and southwest, and then end at Sanford.
Also, Maybe a I387 could go on US 64 near Apex cause they are gonna be working on that soon.
All i got to tell you is,
Good Luck with that.
Since ASSHTO still hasn't approved Interstate 885 (even though Interstate 885 signs have been erected and covered-up), it may be a long time before proposed Interstate 685 is approved. The DOT might as well start the Interstate 85-to-Interstate 40 upgrades to freeway standards along the US 421 corridor.
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.
Why would there be any reason to extend the planned I-685 to Wilmington when I-40 is already there? Wouldn't it make more sense to widen I-40 between I-95 and Wilmington instead?
I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.
If the concern is connecting towns along US-421 to Wilmington or I-95, then improve east-west connections to I-40. But upgrading the entire corridor is a pure waste and should not be considered seriously by any entity.
US-17 and US-74 are far higher priority for upgrades to interstate standards and actually carry high traffic volumes, unlike US-421 which serves as a local route and is already supplemented by an interstate highway.
Capacity is not a concern on I-40, the interstate doesn't have any congestion problems and even if it was, widening the highway to 6 lanes would address that issue. If flooding is a concern on I-40, then raise the highway in problematic areas.
But constructing a new facility altogether takes away any limited funding from other corridors that need it.
The most US-421 needs is passing lanes, improved shoulders, and maybe 4 lanes divided or 5 lanes in certain areas. Fully controlling access with interchanges and overpasses, and having four lanes divided the whole way is absolutely not needed.
Question: wasn't US-421 and US-117 both considered as "alternatives" when considering where to locate I-40? And then they chose US-117 ultimately?
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 22, 2022, 02:11:19 AM
I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.
If the concern is connecting towns along US-421 to Wilmington or I-95, then improve east-west connections to I-40. But upgrading the entire corridor is a pure waste and should not be considered seriously by any entity.
US-17 and US-74 are far higher priority for upgrades to interstate standards and actually carry high traffic volumes, unlike US-421 which serves as a local route and is already supplemented by an interstate highway.
Capacity is not a concern on I-40, the interstate doesn't have any congestion problems and even if it was, widening the highway to 6 lanes would address that issue. If flooding is a concern on I-40, then raise the highway in problematic areas.
But constructing a new facility altogether takes away any limited funding from other corridors that need it.
The most US-421 needs is passing lanes, improved shoulders, and maybe 4 lanes divided or 5 lanes in certain areas. Fully controlling access with interchanges and overpasses, and having four lanes divided the whole way is absolutely not needed.
Question: wasn't US-421 and US-117 both considered as "alternatives" when considering where to locate I-40? And then they chose US-117 ultimately?
Agree completely. Just extend I-685 east from Dunn along the general NC-55 corridor and tie it to I-40 near Newton Grove and call it a day.
I also call BS on this piece of the article:
QuoteCollaboration on the local, state and federal level has been underway over the last three years, with support from state senators Thom Tillis and Richard Burr.
Only the counties along the corridor lobbied for it a few years ago, to which NCDOT was not responsive until Toyota came into the picture and the senators crammed I-685 into the infrastructure bill at the last second, which was almost certainly a demand from Toyota.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 22, 2022, 02:11:19 AM
I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.
I think you mean 50 miles (actually, about 44 miles between I-40 and I-685 at their furthest point). Not sure where you got the idea that I-40 "easily carries all through traffic". I-40 is horribly deficient between the I-85 split and NC-210 (which is only 9 miles [north] of I-95). Plus, the eight-lane I-85/I-40 multiplex between Hillsborough and Greensboro is a complete madhouse all day long (but still carries all through traffic free-flow).
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 22, 2022, 02:11:19 AM
I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.
If the concern is connecting towns along US-421 to Wilmington or I-95, then improve east-west connections to I-40. But upgrading the entire corridor is a pure waste and should not be considered seriously by any entity.
US-17 and US-74 are far higher priority for upgrades to interstate standards and actually carry high traffic volumes, unlike US-421 which serves as a local route and is already supplemented by an interstate highway.
Capacity is not a concern on I-40, the interstate doesn't have any congestion problems and even if it was, widening the highway to 6 lanes would address that issue. If flooding is a concern on I-40, then raise the highway in problematic areas.
But constructing a new facility altogether takes away any limited funding from other corridors that need it.
The most US-421 needs is passing lanes, improved shoulders, and maybe 4 lanes divided or 5 lanes in certain areas. Fully controlling access with interchanges and overpasses, and having four lanes divided the whole way is absolutely not needed.
Question: wasn't US-421 and US-117 both considered as "alternatives" when considering where to locate I-40? And then they chose US-117 ultimately?
Quote from: LM117 on June 22, 2022, 06:16:19 AM
Agree completely. Just extend I-685 east from Dunn along the general NC-55 corridor and tie it to I-40 near Newton Grove and call it a day.
What's wrong with using I-95 from Dunn to I-40 north of Benson? At the worst, it will probably be a hair over 10 miles (and might be closer).
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
Quote from: Henry on June 22, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.
This sounds too far-fetched to be a FritzOwl interstate, let alone real life. I-40 is fine.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on June 22, 2022, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 22, 2022, 02:11:19 AM
I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.
I think you mean 50 miles (actually, about 44 miles between I-40 and I-685 at their furthest point). Not sure where you got the idea that I-40 "easily carries all through traffic". I-40 is horribly deficient between the I-85 split and NC-210 (which is only 9 miles [north] of I-95). Plus, the eight-lane I-85/I-40 multiplex between Hillsborough and Greensboro is a complete madhouse all day long (but still carries all through traffic free-flow).
I am referring to I-40
south of I-95 to Wilmington.
The proposal in question would extend I-685 along US-421 all the way to Wilmington.
There is merit for I-685 between I-85 at Greensboro and I-95 at Dunn, I will agree. It is
not needed in any way south of there.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on June 22, 2022, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Henry on June 22, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.
I can't see NCDOT going along with this. They didn't really want I-685 in it's current form to begin with.
Quote from: LM117 on June 22, 2022, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on June 22, 2022, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Henry on June 22, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.
I can't see NCDOT going along with this. They didn't really want I-685 in it's current form to begin with.
I don't know what NCDOT "wanted," but I do know that this designation, including the 3di number, came from the U.S. Congress. I-685 will have to compete with other projects for funding. Upgrades to US 421 between I-85 and the Toyota plant site will probably get funding, but the rest of the road may have to wait a long time.
Quote from: Henry on June 22, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on June 22, 2022, 01:10:03 PM
If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.
Quote from: LM117 on June 22, 2022, 01:57:23 PM
I can't see NCDOT going along with this. They didn't really want I-685 in it's current form to begin with.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 22, 2022, 06:23:01 PM
I don't know what NCDOT "wanted," but I do know that this designation, including the 3di number, came from the U.S. Congress. I-685 will have to compete with other projects for funding. Upgrades to US 421 between I-85 and the Toyota plant site will probably get funding, but the rest of the road may have to wait a long time.
Just sheer speculation on my part, but our local Congressman David Price (D-NC4) has been chair of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development.
At first I was like, maybe they want it to run down NC 87, which I could at least fathom the merit of. But another interstate along US 421 has got to be posturing. I-40 doesn't even need widening south of maybe I-95, let alone some sort of parallel interstate. Plus city of notable size along the route is Clinton, and if they wanted to be connected an I-795 extension along NC 403 or an upgrade of NC 24 would make more sense.
I doubt NCDOT goes along with this either. It may be more so a way to get I-74 to Wilmington as an appeasement, idk.
Quote from: Henry on June 22, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
I-476 does serve Allentown and Scranton with the extension. I think it is a much different situation than I-685 just paralleling I-40 south of I-95.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 22, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: Henry on June 22, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.
In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.
I-476 does serve Allentown and Scranton with the extension. I think it is a much different situation than I-685 just paralleling I-40 south of I-95.
Not only is I-476 much different than I-685, it would have made a decent 2di, as it serves 6 of PA's top 10 most populated municipalities and provides connections for longer-distance traffic via five (almost six) existing 2dis. A certain number found elsewhere in PA comes to mind had I-476 been a 2di itself... :hmmm:
Back to I-685, there is absolutely no reason to send it further east than I-95 unless it would connect to I-40 shortly thereafter, say around Newton Grove. If Wilmington really needs another Interstate, it should be I-74.
Even if the proposed Interstate 685 is appoved and built between along US 421 between Greensboro and Dunn or Wilmington (and I'm not sure it should, let alone should the corridor become an Interstate Highway), I would ditch the 685 designation and make it a 2di. Maybe they could give it the Interstate 36 designation, since that number was rejected in favor of the Interstate 42 designation along the US 70 corridor.
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.
Now, this is where I don't agree with extending I-685 all the way to Wilmington. Totally unnecessary. I-685 can end at I-40, that part makes sense. but all the way to Wilmington? Nope. NCDOT isn't going for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.
Quote from: Strider on June 23, 2022, 02:06:42 PM
Now, this is where I don't agree with extending I-685 all the way to Wilmington. Totally unnecessary. I-685 can end at I-40, that part makes sense. but all the way to Wilmington? Nope. NCDOT isn't going for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.
It is hard to believe that Roadgeeks are falling for any of this. I'm sure that WUAMPO is trying to get I-685 to be extended to I-40 somewhere around Newton Grove. But I'm sure that it makes no financial sense whatsoever, either from the impact to commercial and intermodal traffic, and definitely not from a tourism point-of-view. At some point, if the widened I-95 can't handle the traffic from I-685 -to- I-40, they will deal with it (and then it might be cheaper to run cross-country from Dunn -to- Newton Grove than to widen I-95 again).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on June 23, 2022, 02:21:19 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.
Quote from: Strider on June 23, 2022, 02:06:42 PM
Now, this is where I don't agree with extending I-685 all the way to Wilmington. Totally unnecessary. I-685 can end at I-40, that part makes sense. but all the way to Wilmington? Nope. NCDOT isn't going for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.
It is hard to believe that Roadgeeks are falling for any of this. I'm sure that WUAMPO is trying to get I-685 to be extended to I-40 somewhere around Newton Grove. But I'm sure that it makes no financial sense whatsoever, either from the impact to commercial and intermodal traffic, and definitely not from a tourism point-of-view. At some point, if the widened I-95 can't handle the traffic from I-685 -to- I-40, they will deal with it (and then it might be cheaper to run cross-country from Dunn -to- Newton Grove than to widen I-95 again).
WMPO does not include Newton Grove. WMPO includes Wilmington and surrounding areas. Newton Grove is a part of Mid-Carolina RPO, that's separate agency.
Quote from: Strider on June 23, 2022, 02:31:43 PM
WMPO does not include Newton Grove. WMPO includes Wilmington and surrounding areas. Newton Grove is a part of Mid-Carolina RPO, that's separate agency.
From the viewpoint of folks in Wilmington, I-685 looks like it was intentionally stopped short of I-40 (therefore, not helping anyone in Wilmington). If they can get it extended to I-40 anywhere (Newton Grove is the most logical cutoff, and fairly close to the shortest cutoff as well) then it will serve Wilmington quite well. So they are asking for a "big fish" and will be quite happy to negotiate down to a "little fish". My point is that an 18-mile extension of I-685 at something as low as $50M per mile is still approaching $1B and not justified, since there should be plenty of capacity on I-95 for the volume of traffic that gets diverted from I-40 in Greensboro onto I-685.
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Resolution passed.
https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/ (https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/777/121/b7f.gif)
Quote from: LM117 on June 30, 2022, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Resolution passed.
https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/ (https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/777/121/b7f.gif)
Here's probably how it went down.
Hey Wilmington, how many interstates do you need?
Wilmington: Yes
Okay, let's run it on US 421 from Dunn about 5-10 miles SE from I-40!
Wilmington (looking at it on a map): YESSSS!
In all seriousness, it looks really stupid on the map as it is literally paralleling I-40 to the SE from Dunn.
Quote from: LM117 on June 30, 2022, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on June 21, 2022, 10:11:31 PM
The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/ (https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/)
Resolution passed.
https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/ (https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/777/121/b7f.gif)
I highly doubt NCDOT would go with it. Widening US 421 could work, but I-685 does not need to go to Wilmington. Especially with I-40 so close by.
I-685 to I-40 Newton Grove could be justified as an I-40 bypass of Raleigh, Chapel Hill and the entire I-85 overlay. Then it should numbered 640 instead of 685
Taking to I-685 to Wilmington using US 421's corridor is a huge waste, even if resources were not an issue.
However, taking I-685 to Fayetteville and extending via NC 87 (which NCDOT is already slowly upgrading) could be worth studying as this could be helpful for more traffic than just port access.
What are the traffic counts on US 421 between Dunn and Wilmington? If they are high enough to warrant an upgrade, maybe a four-lane expressway with at-grade intersections would suffice. If they are not high enough, then terminate future Interstate 685 at Interstate 95 (or perhaps build an Interstate 95-to-Interstate 40 connection to Newton Grove via NC 55).
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 01, 2022, 01:18:55 PM
What are the traffic counts on US 421 between Dunn and Wilmington? If they are high enough to warrant an upgrade, maybe a four-lane expressway with at-grade intersections would suffice. If they are not high enough, then terminate future Interstate 685 at Interstate 95 (or perhaps build an Interstate 95-to-Interstate 40 connection to Newton Grove via NC 55).
US-421 south of I-95 beyond Dunn has an AADT of 4,000. The Clinton bypass has some pretty good numbers, and then US-421 south of Clinton hits an AADT of 5,900 but drops off to 3,400 south of Delway. It drops off to 2,700 south of Harrells (actually Newtons Crossroads). South of Wards Corner, the volumes start to pick up progressively towards Wilmington. None of this indicates any significant through traffic. Of course not, since I-40 is posted at 70 MPH almost the entire distance.
Just out of curiosity, I anticipated a sharp drop-off in traffic volumes along I-40 south of the Magnolia exit (NC-903/NC-24 Bypass) where much of the long-distance traffic heads east to Jacksonville and Camp LeJeune. But the AADT goes up from 21,500 to 23,500 as you get south of that exit. I do not see evidence of that in real life.
[I'm not sure when this happened, but NCDOT is now showing a single AADT number for each freeway segment instead of a pair of numbers for each directional segment. Anyone know when this change occurred? It sure makes it easier.]
One of the YouTubers, "Tarheel Travels" drove on US 421 North from Wilmington to...? (it is still ongoing), watch his videos and you'll have the proof of why I-685 does not need to go to Wilmington.
This is one of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFKxRUR_bjM
For more videos, just go to his homepage.
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 01, 2022, 09:39:28 AM
I-685 to I-40 Newton Grove could be justified as an I-40 bypass of Raleigh, Chapel Hill and the entire I-85 overlay.
If the Wilmington MPO had any sense, this is exactly what they should be pushing. Being able to bypass the entire
parking lot Triangle would get a lot more support from the state, and may even get support from the Triangle itself since it would help reduce truck traffic there. Being able to bypass the Triangle without paying tolls on NC-540 & NC-885 would be even more enticing.
Quote from: Strider on July 02, 2022, 01:25:12 AM
One of the YouTubers, "Tarheel Travels" drove on US 421 North from Wilmington to...? (it is still ongoing), watch his videos and you'll have the proof of why I-685 does not need to go to Wilmington.
This is one of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFKxRUR_bjM
For more videos, just go to his homepage.
US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.
Quote from: LM117 on July 02, 2022, 06:47:54 AM
US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.
US 421 existed long before I-40 did, not the other way around.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 02, 2022, 09:58:50 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 02, 2022, 06:47:54 AM
US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.
US 421 existed long before I-40 did, not the other way around.
And then I-40 was built rendering a US 421 Interstate between Dunn and Wilmington useless. Looks like a FritzOwl proposal.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 02, 2022, 09:58:50 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 02, 2022, 06:47:54 AM
US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.
US 421 existed long before I-40 did, not the other way around.
Ok, but I never mentioned anything about which route was older. :hmm:
My point was that anyone (well, except for Wilmington MPO) can look at a map and see that US-421 & I-40 run parallel to from Dunn to I-40, and realize that making US-421 an interstate all the way to Wilmington is ridiculous and would be a complete waste of money.
Why not end proposed I-685 in Fayetteville? That's a much more important destination than freaking Dunn. Fayetteville has a population over 200,000. There's another 40,000 people on Fort Bragg (soon to be re-named Fort Liberty). NC-87 has a few existing segments between Sanford and Fort Bragg that can be upgraded to Interstate standards. A Greensboro-Fayetteville corridor makes a lot more sense than running a wasteful parallel corridor from Dunn down to Wilmington.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 11, 2022, 11:08:18 AM
Why not end proposed I-685 in Fayetteville? That's a much more important destination than freaking Dunn. Fayetteville has a population over 200,000. There's another 40,000 people on Fort Bragg (soon to be re-named Fort Liberty). NC-87 has a few existing segments between Sanford and Fort Bragg that can be upgraded to Interstate standards. A Greensboro-Fayetteville corridor makes a lot more sense than running a wasteful parallel corridor from Dunn down to Wilmington.
In the long run, having I-685 head towards Dunn would make more sense if it were extended further east to I-40 near Newton Grove. It would give Toyota a straight shot to the port in Wilmington, and provide a badly needed bypass of the entire Triangle for I-40 thru traffic.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bone thrown to Fayetteville in the form of an I-x95 between I-295 and I-685 in Sanford.
If a "theoretical" Interstate 685-to-Interstate 295 3di were built (possibly utilizing the NC 87/NC 24/NC 210 corridors), they should give it the Interstate 495 designation.
Quote from: LM117In the long run, having I-685 head towards Dunn would make more sense if it were extended further east to I-40 near Newton Grove. It would give Toyota a straight shot to the port in Wilmington, and provide a badly needed bypass of the entire Triangle for I-40 thru traffic.
The proposed Toyota EV battery factory in NC will add less than 2000 jobs. I don't think that's enough to justify what would be an expensive upgrade of the US-421 corridor through Dunn (and down to Wilmington) to Interstate standards.
US-421 between Sanford and Dunn would be harder to upgrade to Interstate standards than it would be to upgrade NC-87 between Sanford and Fayetteville. The Fort Bragg-Fayetteville metro is big enough to be worthy of another Interstate quality connection.
Additionally, Dunn is less than 10 miles from the I-40/I-95 interchange. Building another Interstate route parallel to that down to Wilmington would be one hell of a waste of money.
Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.
It's not the same thing.
One terminates at I-95/I-40, and is reasonable, the other goes all the way to Wilmington and is not realistic.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 12, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.
It's not the same thing.
One terminates at I-95/I-40, and is reasonable, the other goes all the way to Wilmington and is not realistic.
Took the words off my keyboard.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 12, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.
It's not the same thing.
One terminates at I-95/I-40, and is reasonable, the other goes all the way to Wilmington and is not realistic.
The argument I believe is in question is extending it beyond I-95 to I-40 to close that triangle.
No. He mentions all the way the Wilmington once and Down to Wilmington the second time. C'mon Ft. Sill. Acknowledge the short extension to Newton Grove. Yes. Upgrading 421 to Wilmington is the dumbest idea ever. It now looks like vehicle assembly will be going battery assembly at the Toyota site. Either way. No facilities are planned nor exist at this time for auto import/export in NC. You'd be heading to Charleston or Hampton Roads.
Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either. :pan:
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 13, 2022, 03:45:42 PM
Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either. :pan:
I-74 makes the most sense, so I don't blame them for trying to "hijack" that one.
(Yeah, I know...dead horse. :meh:)
Quote from: LM117 on July 13, 2022, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 13, 2022, 03:45:42 PM
Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either. :pan:
I-74 makes the most sense, so I don't blame them for trying to "hijack" that one.
(Yeah, I know...dead horse. :meh:)
I believe Wilmington will get I-74 (or maybe I-x74) sooner than I-685 will be completed.
Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 13, 2022, 06:15:35 PM
Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!
That reminds me of the song written by Howard Johee. "Interstate is runnin' through my outhouse, better make my last trip there today!"
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 13, 2022, 06:15:35 PM
Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!
When asked, state senator, Tom from Ohio, declined to comment
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 13, 2022, 06:15:35 PM
Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!
I-685 to Wilmington aside and possibly I-14, most of the proposals are somewhat reasonable IMO.
IMHO, the proposed southern extension of I-11 incorporating a Tucson bypass closely parallel to I-10 and I-19 makes more sense than having I-685 closely parallel I-40 all the way down to Wilmington, and that's already far-fetched enough as it is! As wild as it is, at least the former would have the purpose of bypassing Tucson and benefitting what may be increasing traffic to and from the border over the years. There is absolutely no point in extending I-685 any farther south than Newton Grove. Another interstate coming into Wilmington from the US 74 or US 17 corridor is fine, but this is just nuts. All that said, I can see the utility of a long-distance bypass of the Triangle region, although I agree some sort of connection to Fayetteville could be useful as well. I-685 may very well become the I-476 of the South, but I just hope they only focus on the part that is actually necessary, and even then there may be higher priorities in the present day. This is certainly an interesting proposal, one I never would have expected a few years ago, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on July 13, 2022, 07:51:26 PM
IMHO, the proposed southern extension of I-11 incorporating a Tucson bypass closely parallel to I-10 and I-19 makes more sense than having I-685 closely parallel I-40 all the way down to Wilmington, and that's already far-fetched enough as it is! As wild as it is, at least the former would have the purpose of bypassing Tucson and benefitting what may be increasing traffic to and from the border over the years. There is absolutely no point in extending I-685 any farther south than Newton Grove. Another interstate coming into Wilmington from the US 74 or US 17 corridor is fine, but this is just nuts. All that said, I can see the utility of a long-distance bypass of the Triangle region, although I agree some sort of connection to Fayetteville could be useful as well. I-685 may very well become the I-476 of the South, but I just hope they only focus on the part that is actually necessary, and even then there may be higher priorities in the present day. This is certainly an interesting proposal, one I never would have expected a few years ago, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
What's the issue with 476? It seems like it's a reasonable connection between Philadelphia and Scranton...
I do think 685 should be extended to 40 but that's really all that needed to be proposed. Sure the WMPO could have just proposed/supported the extension. It would really be more logical because you know some farmer or small business owner read that and freaked for no reason.
Honestly WMPO could be proposing some other Interstates that would be more reasonable, it doesn't need 685.
Quote from: kendallhart808 on July 13, 2022, 08:17:08 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on July 13, 2022, 07:51:26 PM
IMHO, the proposed southern extension of I-11 incorporating a Tucson bypass closely parallel to I-10 and I-19 makes more sense than having I-685 closely parallel I-40 all the way down to Wilmington, and that's already far-fetched enough as it is! As wild as it is, at least the former would have the purpose of bypassing Tucson and benefitting what may be increasing traffic to and from the border over the years. There is absolutely no point in extending I-685 any farther south than Newton Grove. Another interstate coming into Wilmington from the US 74 or US 17 corridor is fine, but this is just nuts. All that said, I can see the utility of a long-distance bypass of the Triangle region, although I agree some sort of connection to Fayetteville could be useful as well. I-685 may very well become the I-476 of the South, but I just hope they only focus on the part that is actually necessary, and even then there may be higher priorities in the present day. This is certainly an interesting proposal, one I never would have expected a few years ago, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
What's the issue with 476? It seems like it's a reasonable connection between Philadelphia and Scranton...
I do think 685 should be extended to 40 but that's really all that needed to be proposed. Sure the WMPO could have just proposed/supported the extension. It would really be more logical because you know some farmer or small business owner read that and freaked for no reason.
Honestly WMPO could be proposing some other Interstates that would be more reasonable, it doesn't need 685.
I compared it favorably to I-476, since they are unusually long corridors for a 3di, therefore making them unique interstates. I always thought I-476 was really neat, so I-685 could be neat in the same way, although there's a good argument to be made it would better suffice as a 2di (or even a different 3di number such as 640, as mentioned upthread). The numbering (685) made this news all the more shocking to me when I first heard it; not only did I not expect this project to pop up but I definitely would never have predicted the (3di) number.
Quote from: sprjus4Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.
I don't have a problem with a "I-685" route from Greensboro to I-95. It's that stuff of extending it from Dunn down to Wilmington that's just insane (a shorter extension from Dunn to I-40 in Newton Grove would be more logical). I just don't think routing proposed I-685 to Dunn makes all that much sense with the Fayetteville-Fort Bragg metro being a much bigger destination 20 or so miles to the South. Also, isn't the I-540/NC-540 outer loop supposed to serve some purpose as a relief route for the Triangle region?
Quote from: WashuOtakuWilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either.
I would not have minded I-20 ending in Wilmington. That port city is due East of the I-20 terminus. The I-74 thing makes more sense. Most of US-74 between Wilmington and where I-74 starts being signed would be pretty easy to finish upgrading to Interstate standards.
It's low hanging fruit.I think the I-73 and I-74 split in South Carolina is more ridiculous. Why do they need TWO 2-digit interstates going into the Myrtle Beach area? And what benefit are those routes going to provide with all their crooked dog-leg turns and other garbage? Making I-74 go into Wilmington would be a fairly straight shot. Wilmington may not be a major tourist attraction like Myrtle Beach, but it is a significant port city.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 13, 2022, 10:50:59 PM
Also, isn't the I-540/NC-540 outer loop supposed to serve some purpose as a relief route for the Triangle region?
Yes, but it won't completely bypass the entire Triangle. The NC-540 part of the loop is tolled, so I'm sure thru traffic would love a toll-free bypass, with the added benefit of bypassing the entire Triangle and the I-40/I-85 overlap to boot.
QuoteI think the I-73 and I-74 split in South Carolina is more ridiculous. Why do they need TWO 2-digit interstates going into the Myrtle Beach area?
Agreed. Myrtle Beach doesn't even care about I-74 anymore, so I doubt they would have a problem if it went to Wilmington. What they really want/need is I-73, and they can't even get that.
Interstate 74 should probably end in Wilmington, perhaps at the eastern end of the Cape Fear Memorial Bridge. The Carolina Bays Parkway (and its future norther extension) could remain SC 31/future NC 31.
Quote from: LM117 on July 14, 2022, 11:22:34 AM
QuoteI think the I-73 and I-74 split in South Carolina is more ridiculous. Why do they need TWO 2-digit interstates going into the Myrtle Beach area?
Agreed. Myrtle Beach doesn't even care about I-74 anymore, so I doubt they would have a problem if it went to Wilmington. What they really want/need is I-73, and they can't even get that.
Does not matter what people think, I-74 was congressionally mandated to go to Georgetown, South Carolina and that has yet to be changed. If Wilmington was to EVER get I-74, it would need an Act of Congress to make it happen.
I think there should be a use-it-or-lose-it provision with these congressional mandates of Interstate numbers going to specific locations. South Carolina needs to pony up and start building and signing its portion of I-74 or stop squatting on the designation.
NCDOT is holding a public meeting this week (August 30) regarding improvements to 3 intersections along US 421 in proximity to the future Toyota plan in Randolph County near the Guilford County line, part of the process in upgrading the road to be a future interstate:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/HE-0004-2022-08-24.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/HE-0004-2022-08-24.aspx)
Today we learned that Wolfspeed will build a $5B semiconductor chip plant a few miles northwest of Siler City. This is the biggest economic development in NC history, bigger than the Toyota commitment near Greensboro. The site is less than a mile from US 421/Future I-685 but not at an exit, so a new exit will certainly be provided. This guarantees NCDOT will be scrambling to upgrade US 421 to I-685 between Greensboro and US 64 at Siler City.
An Interstate quality upgrade of US-421 from Greensboro down to Siler City should be pretty easy. There's just a handful of at-grade intersections to convert either into diamond shape exits or just grade separations. Siler City down to Sanford would be a more complicated upgrade since there are more intersections and driveways to convert/eliminate. Ultimately, I think there should be an Interstate quality freeway direct from Greensboro to Fayetteville/Fort Bragg.
The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html (https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html)
Quote from: bob7374 on November 06, 2022, 09:26:55 PM
The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html (https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html)
Isn't it pretty close to 100% Interstate standards?
iPhone
577
Quote from: bob7374 on November 06, 2022, 09:26:55 PM
The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html (https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html)
That actually makes more sense than the Greensboro-Dunn section. If both get done, I think it'd deserve to be a new mainline interstate. I-38, anyone?
^ Greensboro to Dunn or Fayetteville is definitely far more worthy of an interstate highway.
As far as meeting interstate standards... no, but it is a fully controlled access freeway. The shoulders would need widening.
Quote from: bob7374 on November 06, 2022, 09:26:55 PM
The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html (https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html)
Surprised they're not asking for US-421 through downtown W-S to become part of it as well. That part was upgraded fairly recently, IIRC.
An Interstate-quality upgrade of US-421 from Wilkesboro to I-40 on the West side of Winston-Salem should be relatively easy. The shoulders definitely need a lot of work. Some exit ramps along the way might not be up to current Interstate design standards, which might require the purchase of a bit more ROW. Looking at the highway via Google Earth I saw only one at-grade intersection, which looked like access to some farm land.
But how important is this segment of US-421? Does it really need an Interstate designation? Wilkesboro is not exactly a big town at all (fewer than 4000 residents). I can only guess Wilkesboro is located at an important enough highway junction to warrant a freeway being built there from Winton-Salem.
It seems to me like overkill for them to request an Interstate designation for that segment of highway. I think I would have an easier time trying to justify building an I-44 spur from Lawton/Fort Sill to Altus -a town of nearly 20,000 people and home to a large Air Force base (the 4-lane US-62 highway already does a good enough job).
The bigger problem with so many highways being signed as Interstates in North Carolina is that it dilutes the importance of an Interstate to the larger highway network. If this part of US-421 was re-signed as an Interstate I think it should only get a 3-digit designation -like the I-577 suggestion ARMOURERERIC mentioned. Most of the potential I-x40 numbers are getting used elsewhere.
Quote from: LM117 on November 07, 2022, 08:36:47 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on November 06, 2022, 09:26:55 PM
The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html (https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html)
Surprised they're not asking for US-421 through downtown W-S to become part of it as well. That part was upgraded fairly recently, IIRC.
Even after the upgrades, the highway through downtown is still substandard, which caused I-40 to be rerouted onto the southern bypass in 1992. NCDOT decided that it would be better to build a new freeway than undergo an expensive construction project just to bring the original one up to standard. I-40 was rerouted around Greensboro, too, but was later switched back, because at least the parts west of Death Valley have been vastly improved.
AFAIK, I-340 has never even been proposed anywhere, so that would be a good place for the Wilkesboro spur.
I expected the US 421 freeway between Winston-Salem and Wilkesboro would be a target for an Interstate designation sooner or later. Making it Interstate 340 would probably be the best number for the corridor, assuming it eventually comes into fruition (whether the corridor should become an Interstate corridor in the first place is debatable).
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 07, 2022, 07:22:06 PM
I expected the US 421 freeway between Winston-Salem and Wilkesboro would be a target for an Interstate designation sooner or later. Making it Interstate 340 would probably be the best number for the corridor, assuming it eventually comes into fruition (whether the corridor should become an Interstate corridor in the first place is debatable).
If the US-421 freeway ever gets extended to Boone, you might see NCDOT request a 3DI designation. The freeway from Winston-Salem -to- Wilkesboro/North Wilkesboro was completed back in late 2005, and there hasn't been the level of civic development around that terminus deserving of a node on the Interstate system. Boone is a decent size college town with a huge winter and summer tourist season.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 07, 2022, 07:22:06 PM
I expected the US 421 freeway between Winston-Salem and Wilkesboro would be a target for an Interstate designation sooner or later. Making it Interstate 340 would probably be the best number for the corridor, assuming it eventually comes into fruition (whether the corridor should become an Interstate corridor in the first place is debatable).
Calm down everyone.
(1) Despite appearances it's not true that NC wants every freeway to be an interstate.
(2) Wilkesboro is not an appropriate destination for an interstate. It's a small town. US 421 is a freeway to carry travelers to mountain resorts. It carries practically no interstate traffic.
(3) In Winston-Salem US 421 formerly was signed as Business 40 – in fact, it was originally 40. When it was rebuilt recently the W-S government specifically requested that the Business 40 signage be removed. W-S does not want through traffic coming through downtown and would strenuously oppose any interstate designation for US 421.
I think the Interstate proposal would only include the segment of US 421 from Exit 238 and Exit 286B, not the segment along the Salem Parkway. However, while I agree that not every freeway in North Carolina will become an Interstate, it seems like a lot of them will.
I honestly don't see why Wilkesboro needs an interstate. It's a small town with nothing significant enough (that I'm aware of) to warrant an interstate. That would be like NCDOT building I-795 just to have it permanently end at Fremont or Pikeville.
Safety improvements to 421 such as wider shoulders are fine, but it's not worth the effort of going through red tape to get an interstate shield thrown on it, IMO.
Quote from: LM117 on November 08, 2022, 07:12:00 AM
I honestly don't see why Wilkesboro needs an interstate. It's a small town with nothing significant enough (that I'm aware of) to warrant an interstate. That would be like NCDOT building I-795 just to have it permanently end at Fremont or Pikeville.
Safety improvements to 421 such as wider shoulders are fine, but it's not worth the effort of going through red tape to get an interstate shield thrown on it, IMO.
This, in iteslf would not be enough, but the Wilkesboro speedway has reopened.
As mentioned in the "AASHTO Spring 2022 Meeting" thread, Toyota's NCDOT's request for Future I-685 was approved.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0z0beu61bb77gp/Final%20Report_USRN%20Application%20Results-%20Spring%202022.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0z0beu61bb77gp/Final%20Report_USRN%20Application%20Results-%20Spring%202022.pdf)
Quote from: LM117 on December 10, 2022, 03:06:38 PM
As mentioned in the "AASHTO Spring 2022 Meeting" thread, Toyota's NCDOT's request for Future I-685 was approved.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0z0beu61bb77gp/Final%20Report_USRN%20Application%20Results-%20Spring%202022.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0z0beu61bb77gp/Final%20Report_USRN%20Application%20Results-%20Spring%202022.pdf)
It will be interesting to see if Wilmington will have the same kind of pull as
Toyota, or just be ignored like usual.
NCDOT awarded a contract to resurface and improve a nearly 15-mile stretch of US-421 in Randolph and Chatham counties. Work can begin on March 1, and is expected to wrap up in fall 2024.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-01-24-randolph-chatham-resurfacing.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-01-24-randolph-chatham-resurfacing.aspx)
^ And I'll guess, per typical NCDOT practice, the shoulders will not be widened in process. They were smart when did they projects along US-264 and US-70, but doesn't seem to be the norm otherwise.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 25, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
^ And I'll guess, per typical NCDOT practice, the shoulders will not be widened in process. They were smart when did they projects along US-264 and US-70, but doesn't seem to be the norm otherwise.
It does say Shoulder reconstruction. So most likely that will mean they will repave 3 full lanes, with the 3rd one being the shoulder. Especially because the project is for upgrading the road to interstate standards.
Quote from: AlmaPinnix on January 25, 2023, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 25, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
^ And I'll guess, per typical NCDOT practice, the shoulders will not be widened in process. They were smart when did they projects along US-264 and US-70, but doesn't seem to be the norm otherwise.
It does say Shoulder reconstruction. So most likely that will mean they will repave 3 full lanes, with the 3rd one being the shoulder. Especially because the project is for upgrading the road to interstate standards.
Not looking like it (https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/dsplan/2022%20Highway%20Letting/12-20-22/Plans%20and%20Proposals/CHATHAM_RANDOLPH_2023CPT.08.07.10191ETC_C204809/Individual%20Sheets/001%20Plans/001_027_Chatham_Randolph_Typicals.pdf) when compared to the
US 70 plans (https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/dsplan/2018%20Highway%20Letting/03-20-18/Plans%20and%20Proposals/CRAVEN-JONES_I-6002_C204139/Individual%20Sheets/001%20Plans/001_015_I6002_PSH3_Typical_REV2.pdf).
Quote from: AlmaPinnix on January 25, 2023, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 25, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
^ And I'll guess, per typical NCDOT practice, the shoulders will not be widened in process. They were smart when did they projects along US-264 and US-70, but doesn't seem to be the norm otherwise.
It does say Shoulder reconstruction. So most likely that will mean they will repave 3 full lanes, with the 3rd one being the shoulder. Especially because the project is for upgrading the road to interstate standards.
You'd think, but even similar projects along the US-64 / US-17 corridor haven't included full paved shoulders either.
They resurfaced the US-17 Elizabeth City bypass two years ago, and did not widen the shoulders. Given it's already a controlled access highway segment, and the shoulders are graded, they could've easily widened the shoulders to 10 ft and never had to further upgrade that portion again.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: AlmaPinnix on January 25, 2023, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 25, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
^ And I'll guess, per typical NCDOT practice, the shoulders will not be widened in process. They were smart when did they projects along US-264 and US-70, but doesn't seem to be the norm otherwise.
It does say Shoulder reconstruction. So most likely that will mean they will repave 3 full lanes, with the 3rd one being the shoulder. Especially because the project is for upgrading the road to interstate standards.
You'd think, but even similar projects along the US-64 / US-17 corridor haven't included full paved shoulders either.
They resurfaced the US-17 Elizabeth City bypass two years ago, and did not widen the shoulders. Given it's already a controlled access highway segment, and the shoulders are graded, they could've easily widened the shoulders to 10 ft and never had to further upgrade that portion again.
Same thing with US-70 in La Grange.
^ I'm curious if that segment will stand problematic once the Kinston Bypass is constructed... if not upgraded before that, it will be a "gap" in an otherwise long-distance interstate standard freeway between west of Goldsboro and Havelock.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 25, 2023, 11:08:18 PM
^ I'm curious if that segment will stand problematic once the Kinston Bypass is constructed... if not upgraded before that, it will be a "gap" in an otherwise long-distance interstate standard freeway between west of Goldsboro and Havelock.
The chosen alternative for the Kinston Bypass includes upgrading existing US 70 for 7 miles from the end of the Goldsboro Bypass through LaGrange to the site of the 6.5 mile 'Shallow Bypass.' Currently the FEIS is to be released this year, with right of way starting in 2026, the construction date is still TBD.
^ Yes, but it does not include upgrading the existing LaGrange freeway portion, only east of there.
That two mile freeway section was resurfaced and had the shoulders widened to 4 ft (from basically nothing) when the Goldsboro Bypass was complete, along with the speed limit raised from 55 mph to 70 mph, but did not widen all the way to 10 ft to meet interstate standards.
NCDOT press release about another short-term intersection improvement project along US 421 on its way to becoming I-685:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-02-21-impending-crossover-closure-421.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-02-21-impending-crossover-closure-421.aspx)
Quote from: bob7374 on February 21, 2023, 09:47:16 PM
NCDOT press release about another intersection improvement project along US 421 on its way to becoming I-685:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-02-21-impending-crossover-closure-421.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-02-21-impending-crossover-closure-421.aspx)
If the goal is to upgrade US 421 to an interstate, this would be a project to build an overpass or an interchange. Making a super street style intersection instead telegraphs that I-685 isn't coming anytime soon.
Should it come at all? I'm okay with US 421 becoming completely freeway between Greensboro (Interstate 85) and Dunn (Interstate 95), with a freeway connection between 95 and Interstate 40 near Newton Grove. However, I think continuing 685 down 421 from Dunn all the way to Wilmington is serious overkill, when Interstate 40 already serves that area.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 22, 2023, 01:24:20 PM
Should it come at all? I'm okay with US 421 becoming completely freeway between Greensboro (Interstate 85) and Dunn (Interstate 95), with a freeway connection between 95 and Interstate 40 near Newton Grove. However, I think continuing 685 down 421 from Dunn all the way to Wilmington is serious overkill, when Interstate 40 already serves that area.
^ Agreed, but that's not being talked about here at all... this in reference to an at-grade intersection on US-421 southeast of Greensboro.
True, the discussion before was about this intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8987159,-79.6601115,804m/data=!3m1!1e3. Personally, I think it should be converted into an underpass. My previous comment was about the proposed Interstate 685 in general.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on February 21, 2023, 10:46:01 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on February 21, 2023, 09:47:16 PM
NCDOT press release about another intersection improvement project along US 421 on its way to becoming I-685:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-02-21-impending-crossover-closure-421.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-02-21-impending-crossover-closure-421.aspx)
If the goal is to upgrade US 421 to an interstate, this would be a project to build an overpass or an interchange. Making a super street style intersection instead telegraphs that I-685 isn't coming anytime soon.
Perhaps, but NCDOT put the same sort of reduced conflict intersection along US 74 in Robeson County around Broadridge Road a year before they started the project to turn the intersection into an interchange for Future I-74. The reasoning was it was a short term fix to improve safety in the area prior to construction. So it could happen sooner than later.
I am making this post since I agree any posts about future Interstate 685 should be posted here, instead of another thread such as the "NC-24 from Clinton, NC to Rose Hill Updates?" thread.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 14, 2024, 03:55:44 PM
I am making this post since I agree any posts about future Interstate 685 should be posted here, instead of another thread such as the "NC-24 from Clinton, NC to Rose Hill Updates?" thread.
NC-24 is not apart of the proposed I-685, it is appropriate to be its own thread.
I've been keeping tabs of US-421 (Future I-685) South from Greensboro, NC towards the Greensboro-Randolph Megasite (Toyota) in Julian, NC. Williams Dairy Rd and Company Mill Rd are now exits upgraded from stop sign intersections. An interchange for the Megasite itself is also finishing construction.
The real challenge to converting US 421 into Interstate 685 will be the Sanford-to-Dunn segment. All of it would have to be built on a new alignment, since I doubt any of the existing US 421 alignment can be upgraded to Interstate Standards. The Sanford-to-Dunn segment will likely be the last segment of future Interstate 685 to be constructed.
https://www.rhinotimes.com/featured-article/highway-421-corridor-becoming-the-hot-topic-of-discussion/ (https://www.rhinotimes.com/featured-article/highway-421-corridor-becoming-the-hot-topic-of-discussion/)