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Author Topic: Phoenix Area Highways  (Read 159333 times)

brad2971

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #750 on: May 06, 2023, 05:51:11 PM »

https://azdot.gov/business/engineering-consultants/upcoming-advertisements

Apparently, ADOT has something to say regarding Interstate 11 and its West Valley future: "2023-017-Interstate 11 (I-11), Interstate 10 (I-10) to United States Route 93 (US 93) Design Concept Report (DCR) and Tier 2 Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) Study Maricopa County ***Tentative advertisement FY23, Q3***"

So we may end up getting construction started within the next five years, given how long DCRs and EISs take to complete.
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Sonic99

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #751 on: May 09, 2023, 08:57:20 PM »

Everything is really dependent on some sort of Sales Tax extension. If we can get another 20 year extension (original has been in place for nearly 40 years already) then that will help keep the momentum going. If it goes away with no replacement (something I could see a certain group of our local politicians trying to privatize in their "anti-all-taxes" crusade) then that will really put a damper on continuing to build out the Phoenix area system.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #752 on: May 10, 2023, 03:51:38 PM »

As of Monday (5/8) Loop 303 traffic is now on a bridge going over the future 43rd Ave, which is under construction. The new bridge over the future 51st Ave should open in a few weeks.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 05:35:08 PM by Roadwarriors79 »
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kernals12

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #753 on: May 11, 2023, 01:01:50 PM »

Looks like construction has started on the extension of SR 24 and the Central Arizona parkway.





 The CAP is not to be confused with the Pinal North South Freeway, it will run a few miles to the west and it will have at-grade intersections. Here's hoping it will get the "Arizona Parkway" treatment with median u-turns in lieu of left turns. Construction of the first segment will be finished by the end of this year and the whole thing is to be finished by 2028.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 01:04:24 PM by kernals12 »
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DJStephens

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #754 on: May 14, 2023, 01:51:53 PM »

would seem to make more sense to combine this parkway, and the Pinal Frwy as proposed into a single facility.   As straight and efficient as possible, yep that seems very hard to do, in this day and age.   
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #755 on: June 14, 2023, 12:45:56 AM »

As of Monday (6/12) Loop 303 is now using the mainline at 51st Ave. All the entrance and exit ramps at 51st Ave are closed for reconstruction.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #756 on: June 14, 2023, 10:11:30 AM »

Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all thatís left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/
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Sonic99

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #757 on: June 14, 2023, 01:49:12 PM »

Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all thatís left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/

Context is important hereon exactly why the Governor opposes this specific bill. This version is the Conservative version which basically strips all mass-transit funding including light rail, bike paths, etc. and focuses almost exclusively on freeways and roads. While I can certainly understand the fact that mass-transit is trickier in such a spread out metro area, I think there's still plenty of opportunities for that to co-exist. Obviously in the Phoenix area, the road network and freeways will always be the dominant form of transit and there is plenty of expansion needed there as well. But the current bill is heavily pushed by the same "dark money" that fought the Central Ave expansion (Koch Brothers were heavily involved there) so this bill is really not in line with the actual needs of the Phoenix metro, it's being pushed by those with personal financial interest in eliminating mass-transit.
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splashflash

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #758 on: June 14, 2023, 04:04:11 PM »

Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all thatís left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/
Obviously in the Phoenix area, the road network and freeways will always be the dominant form of transit and there is plenty of expansion needed there as well.

Is there need for transit expansion?  From a blog you might probably dislike, it critiques the plan...

For example, over at least the past 30 years, transit has never carried more than 0.8 percent of passenger travel, yet the plan dedicates more than 40 percent of the regionís transportation funds to transit. Planners hope to attract people out of their cars, yet in the decade before 2019, despite spending billions on transit, driving grew while transit was stagnant. The pandemic, of course, cut transit ridership even more: for the past two years, it has hovered around 55 percent of pre-pandemic numbers and show no signed of further recovery.

By failing to consider a wide range of alternatives, MAG ended up writing a plan that didnít make sense for the 21th century. By failing to evaluate alternatives, it ignored low-cost solutions that could do more to accomplish the planís goals. By failing to monitor previous plans, it repeated the same mistake over and over in long-range plans written about every five years.

in 2004, voters extended the sales tax but allowed some of it to be spent on transit, which resulted in the region building an expensive light-rail system. This actually did transit riders more harm than good because once the light rail opened, cuts in bus service led to a significant loss of bus riders.

https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=20699#more-20699

BTW, not my blog.

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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #759 on: June 14, 2023, 06:44:56 PM »

I read The Antiplanner blog every day. I once saw Randal O'Toole speak when he came to town in 2010. I even have a few of his books. Maybe Phoenix should have spent their transit money on buses instead of trains.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #760 on: June 14, 2023, 08:26:26 PM »

Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all thatís left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/

Context is important hereon exactly why the Governor opposes this specific bill. This version is the Conservative version which basically strips all mass-transit funding including light rail, bike paths, etc. and focuses almost exclusively on freeways and roads. While I can certainly understand the fact that mass-transit is trickier in such a spread out metro area, I think there's still plenty of opportunities for that to co-exist. Obviously in the Phoenix area, the road network and freeways will always be the dominant form of transit and there is plenty of expansion needed there as well. But the current bill is heavily pushed by the same "dark money" that fought the Central Ave expansion (Koch Brothers were heavily involved there) so this bill is really not in line with the actual needs of the Phoenix metro, it's being pushed by those with personal financial interest in eliminating mass-transit.
Iím not necessarily against that. Passenger rail traffic should have its own funding structure. Not logrolled into highway and road improvements.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #761 on: August 30, 2023, 02:16:13 AM »

Just in time for Labor Day weekend,  Loop 303 interchanges at 43rd Ave and 51st Ave are fully open.
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Henry

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #762 on: September 01, 2023, 11:40:54 PM »

So what's the latest on AZ 30?
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #763 on: September 02, 2023, 12:30:55 AM »

So what's the latest on AZ 30?

Haven't heard anything new about AZ 30 recently. Other than some planning and a future alignment. Anything else going forward depends on funding. I looked on ADOT's page, didn't see anything recent about it.

https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/state-route-30-loop-303-loop-202-study
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DJStephens

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #764 on: September 03, 2023, 12:09:21 PM »

Appears all they have planned is a "SR 30" from a proposed southerly extension of "SR 303" to "Loop or SR 202".   Believe the original intent was to bring it all the way E to the "Broadway Curve" on I-17, which believe at one time was supposed to be for Interstate 10 coming in from the W.    The cover sheet depicts a "SR 300L to SR 30" connection, that twists like a pretzel.  Have to wonder, that is not the Final Plan?  Looks very Inefficient.   
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Sonic99

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #765 on: September 03, 2023, 04:54:17 PM »

Appears all they have planned is a "SR 30" from a proposed southerly extension of "SR 303" to "Loop or SR 202".   Believe the original intent was to bring it all the way E to the "Broadway Curve" on I-17, which believe at one time was supposed to be for Interstate 10 coming in from the W.    The cover sheet depicts a "SR 300L to SR 30" connection, that twists like a pretzel.  Have to wonder, that is not the Final Plan?  Looks very Inefficient.

So just to clarify based on what I've seen. Yes, the original plan for I-10 coming in from the west was to be much closer to this alignment and to interchange with I-17 at the Durango Curve. This is why at the Durango Curve, the WB/NB curve is lower than the SB/EB curve, as that curve originally had overpasses built into it to accommodate a road continuing west. Not sure if they actually removed those overpasses or just filled them in with dirt and they're still hidden down there or not.

The reason for the awkward looking interchange with the 303/30 is because in the long-long-long term plans, the 303 continues to the southwest. So that's why it's really oblong in design, because it's basically a Y coming from the southwest and splitting to the 303 North and 30 East.

As far as I know, the extension of SR30 from the 202 to I-17 is still in the cards and in the plans, but that will be a later phase. Phase 1 is the 303/202 section. I am not sure exactly where the funding status is right now (the tax that's funded the entire system since 1985 expires next year) but I do know from all the documents I've seen, SR30 is basically "next in line" for significant funding if that tax gets extended and will get underway within the next 3 years if it does indeed get the funding. Right now the last big projects that are funded are the Broadway Curve (expected to be done next year) and the I-17 reversible lanes going up Black Canyon.
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pderocco

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #766 on: September 03, 2023, 08:44:21 PM »

So just to clarify based on what I've seen. Yes, the original plan for I-10 coming in from the west was to be much closer to this alignment and to interchange with I-17 at the Durango Curve. This is why at the Durango Curve, the WB/NB curve is lower than the SB/EB curve, as that curve originally had overpasses built into it to accommodate a road continuing west. Not sure if they actually removed those overpasses or just filled them in with dirt and they're still hidden down there or not.
In the Google Earth 1992 imagery, the outer curve looks freshly paved, so perhaps they had just rebuilt it.
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Sonic99

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #767 on: September 04, 2023, 07:10:52 PM »

So just to clarify based on what I've seen. Yes, the original plan for I-10 coming in from the west was to be much closer to this alignment and to interchange with I-17 at the Durango Curve. This is why at the Durango Curve, the WB/NB curve is lower than the SB/EB curve, as that curve originally had overpasses built into it to accommodate a road continuing west. Not sure if they actually removed those overpasses or just filled them in with dirt and they're still hidden down there or not.
In the Google Earth 1992 imagery, the outer curve looks freshly paved, so perhaps they had just rebuilt it.

I went back on Historic Aerials and it looks like it changed between 1972 and 1973. In the 72 image you can clearly see the two bridges and in 73 they're gone. They're not very high resolution obviously, so it's hard to tell if they actually tore them out or just "filled" them in.
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Occidental Tourist

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #768 on: September 06, 2023, 04:51:57 AM »

I'm pretty sure they just filled them in:




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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #769 on: September 06, 2023, 12:02:25 PM »

Hopefully, when they construct AZ 30, they give it exit numbers based on its actual mileage, and not the goofy exit numbers that can be found on Interstate 17 and AZ 303.
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DJStephens

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #770 on: September 07, 2023, 11:31:51 AM »

I'm pretty sure they just filled them in:




So I-10 / I-17 WB to I-10 WB was originally supposed to be a Left Exit.   Maybe by '73 the decision heads had already settled on the further N Papago alignment.   
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #771 on: September 07, 2023, 11:35:53 AM »

I'm not surprised. Left-hand exits used to be the norm for a lot of freeway interchanges.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #772 on: September 07, 2023, 04:29:06 PM »

Hopefully, when they construct AZ 30, they give it exit numbers based on its actual mileage, and not the goofy exit numbers that can be found on Interstate 17 and AZ 303.

Depends on how much of AZ 30 is built, and which section(s) are built first.

Loop 303 originally had mile markers that started just south of I-10 and went up to the current Happy Valley Parkway interchange. ADOT added 100 to all the mile markers (and exit numbers) in anticipation of a future southern extension.

Most of the other state routes in the Phoenix area (24, 51, 101, 202) go from Mile 0 or Mile 1 to whatever the length of the highway is. I-17 inherited its mile markers from when it was AZ 69.
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Concrete Bob

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #773 on: September 07, 2023, 11:50:59 PM »

Take a look at the fifth picture in the link below to see how I-10 would have split off west at the Durango Curve.  The photo shows one of the original overpasses that would have carried I-10 westbound traffic under the I-17 southbound to I-10 eastbound lanes:

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/travel/arizona/road-trips/2017/04/18/phoenix-area-freeway-history/100619786/
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DJStephens

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #774 on: September 10, 2023, 09:26:05 PM »

Take a look at the fifth picture in the link below to see how I-10 would have split off west at the Durango Curve.  The photo shows one of the original overpasses that would have carried I-10 westbound traffic under the I-17 southbound to I-10 eastbound lanes:

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/travel/arizona/road-trips/2017/04/18/phoenix-area-freeway-history/100619786/

The aerial, dated 1963, shows the 17 where it made a significant turn at the Durango Curve.  The Broadway Curve, is on 10, and is sort of the opposite corner of the downtown freeway complex.  The aerials in the AZ Republic article clearly show the shortage of Freeways during the early growth decades of Phoenix.   
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