I49 in LA

[pctech]

Too bad we didn't do that with I-10 thru Baton Rouge!

[rte66man]

The existing Evangeline thru-way would became the service roads for the freeway?

Yes, that is correct....The Thruway would serve local traffic while the Connector freeway would handle the main through traffic.

<rant> Elevated freeways through a densely populated urban area are a blight.  Fort Worth and Oklahoma City have torn theirs down.  Ask NOLA residents what they think about them, especially those near Claiborne Av. </rant>

rte66man

[Grzrd]

<rant> Elevated freeways through a densely populated urban area are a blight.  Fort Worth and Oklahoma City have torn theirs down.  Ask NOLA residents what they think about them, especially those near Claiborne Av. </rant>
rte66man

FWIW this Daily Advertiser editorial opines that Lafayette has learned lessons from Claiborne Avenue:

When Interstate 49 finally makes its way through Lafayette, some will benefit and some will not. But when it's all added up, the elevated highway known as the "connector"  will represent a net win for the city ....
when it's done wrong, it can be devastating, as exemplified by Claiborne Avenue in New Orleans.
In planning the downtown route, city leaders have taken Claiborne Avenue as the model for everything they want to avoid in Lafayette, Conque said.
Although some neighborhoods and businesses will be negatively affected by the new road, Conque said great care has been taken to minimize the damage to the area and to preserve as much of the local landscape as possible.
The highway will deviate from the Evangeline Thruway track to avoid negative effects to St. Genevieve Catholic Church, which was established in 1929.
To avoid casting a permanent shadow on any one area, the road will be 18 feet in height, allowing the shadows to move with the changing position of the sun.
There will be three exits leading from the connector to the downtown area, so merchants along the path can still look forward to business from passing motorists. There will also be a fourth exit at Kaliste Saloom Road ....

At the very least Lafayette is aware of the Claiborne Avenue problem.

[Alps]

Freeways through a densely populated urban area may be thought of as a blight, especially by locals.

FTFY. Not always true. Also, depressed freeways can be just as bad.

[Anthony_JK]

The existing Evangeline thru-way would became the service roads for the freeway?

Yes, that is correct....The Thruway would serve local traffic while the Connector freeway would handle the main through traffic.

<rant> Elevated freeways through a densely populated urban area are a blight.  Fort Worth and Oklahoma City have torn theirs down.  Ask NOLA residents what they think about them, especially those near Claiborne Av. </rant>

rte66man

Ummm....not necessarily.

First off, the Claiborne Elevated was built in the 1970's, when there was little concern with context sensitive design or even how a freeway would impact a neighborhood. Today, it is standard procedure to include Context Sensitive Solutions design whenever a proposed highway goes through a sensitive area.

Secondly...Lafayette is not Fort Worth or Oklahoma City, where alternative freeways already existed when they tore down those elevated segments.

Third.....the I-49 Connector was planned and designed with the provision that the affected neighborhoods would be mitigated. A plan to include major asthetic modifications to the freeway ROW and surrounding areas was already committed to during the enviromental process, and that will be carried out during the upcoming design process. In fact, the Univ. of Louisiana-Lafayette group Community Design Workshop had already drawn up a major plan of integrated design, the "Blue Book", that has been fully integrated into the approved and mandated design plan by LADOTD through the Record of Decision. Plus, mitigation of the negative impacts for the most sensitive neighborhoods affected by the project (including the adjacent Sterling Grove Historic District) are also covered by the Section 106 Memorandum of Agreement that was included in the ROD.

It should also be noted that the central portion of the Connector freeway would deviate from the Evangeline Thruway median and recurve closer to downtown, thusly avoiding more significant impacts to neighborhoods fronting the Thruway, and also providing closer and more effective access to the downtown business district.

A point of correction, though: there will be only two direct exits to downtown (Second/Third Streets and Johnston Street); the third exit (Surrey Street/E. University Avenue) will primarily serve ULL and the airport, not downtown. There's also a fourth exit at Willow Street just before I-10 for local access to Northgate Mall and parts of North Lafayette, and the Kaliste Saloom Road exit furtherest south.

[rte66man]

The existing Evangeline thru-way would became the service roads for the freeway?

Yes, that is correct....The Thruway would serve local traffic while the Connector freeway would handle the main through traffic.

<rant> Elevated freeways through a densely populated urban area are a blight.  Fort Worth and Oklahoma City have torn theirs down.  Ask NOLA residents what they think about them, especially those near Claiborne Av. </rant>

rte66man

Ummm....not necessarily.

<snip>

Secondly...Lafayette is not Fort Worth or Oklahoma City, where alternative freeways already existed when they tore down those elevated segments.

<snip>

In both cases, the "alternative" freeways were expressly developed to take the place of the elevated sections. In the case of OKC, the elevated portion will be replaced with a boulevard.

rte66man

[agentsteel53]

am I the only one who likes elevated freeways?

perhaps I'm biased because they tend to be fairly old, and thus exploring them yields a greater proportion of finding neat old infrastructure.

[UptownRoadGeek]

<rant>Ask NOLA residents what they think about them, especially those near Claiborne Av. </rant>

rte66man

<rant>Yeah, you would find that people who actually live in the area impacted by the Claiborne Expressway want the highway to stay or would rather it be replaced by a modern expressway with better access. The movement to have it torn down is being spearheaded by private developers and a small number of highly vocal "new urbanists" who don't even live in the area (probably not even from the city). The only group of people who have expressed desire for a tear down that live near the area would be VCPORA and let's say that they are known for being a thorn in the rest of the city's ass.</rant>

..back on topic, elevated freeways through an urban area can be done right for a price. New Orleans has two of them that are doing just fine.

[RPParish]

Hopefully the elevated freeway has shoulders on both sides.

Just thinking outside the box but would it be better to have the freeway goes below the current grade, similar to Houston's South Freeway?

[Brandon]

Hopefully the elevated freeway has shoulders on both sides.

Just thinking outside the box but would it be better to have the freeway goes below the current grade, similar to Houston's South Freeway?

Maybe, maybe not.  One must also remember that in south Louisiana that the water table is often just barely below the surface.  The is a very good reason why I-10 is elevated through New Orleans and not in a trench.  It's the very same reason why the cemeteries are above ground.  Dig down a couple of shovelfuls of soil and you get water.  Lots and lots of water.

[RPParish]

Hopefully the elevated freeway has shoulders on both sides.

Just thinking outside the box but would it be better to have the freeway goes below the current grade, similar to Houston's South Freeway

Maybe, maybe not.  One must also remember that in south Louisiana that the water table is often just barely below the surface.  The is a very good reason why I-10 is elevated through New Orleans and not in a trench.  It's the very same reason why the cemeteries are above ground.  Dig down a couple of shovelfuls of soil and you get water.  Lots and lots of water.

Lafayette's elevation isnt as low as New Orleans. Just to the north, in the Carencro area, there are hills.

Jefferson St. dips below to a railroad similiar to New Orleans the one between the 610 spilt and Metarie Rd exit. I wonder if it floods after heavy rains like the one in New Orleans.

[NE2]

am I the only one who likes elevated freeways?

perhaps I'm biased because they tend to be fairly old, and thus exploring them yields a greater proportion of finding neat old infrastructure.

I like them from a visiting standpoint but I wouldn't want to live next to one. Kind of like Hoover Dam.

[Anthony_JK]

Hopefully the elevated freeway has shoulders on both sides.

Just thinking outside the box but would it be better to have the freeway goes below the current grade, similar to Houston's South Freeway

Maybe, maybe not.  One must also remember that in south Louisiana that the water table is often just barely below the surface.  The is a very good reason why I-10 is elevated through New Orleans and not in a trench.  It's the very same reason why the cemeteries are above ground.  Dig down a couple of shovelfuls of soil and you get water.  Lots and lots of water.

Lafayette's elevation isnt as low as New Orleans. Just to the north, in the Carencro area, there are hills.

Jefferson St. dips below to a railroad similiar to New Orleans the one between the 610 spilt and Metarie Rd exit. I wonder if it floods after heavy rains like the one in New Orleans.

The Jefferson St. underpass of the UP/BNSF railway has pumps to drain away water during flood events.

A depressed/cut-and-cover option was very heavily considered for the I-49 Connector project, but was rejected ultimately due to the questionable hydralics, the closure of too many cross streets, and the need to maintain the freeway as a hurricane evacuation route for Lafayette and points to the south and east.  Also, there would have to be a sharp transition between the elevated and depressed sections from around Willow St. to Mudd Avenue due to the proximity of a coulee (small bayou) that runs parallel to a railroad spur of the L&D RR that crosses the Thruway just south of Willow Street. Keeping the freeway elevated made much more sense under present circumstances.

Those "hills" are in fact the Coteau/Teche Ridge which divides the generally flat plain from the Atchafalaya/Mississippi floodplain.

[Anthony_JK]

In both cases, the "alternative" freeways were expressly developed to take the place of the eleveated sections. In the case of OKC, the eleveate portion will be replaced with a boulevard.

rte66man

Except that in Lafayette, unless you plan on building either Teche Ridge or the LMX western loop, there really *IS* no alternative.

[RPParish]

Hopefully the elevated freeway has shoulders on both sides.

Just thinking outside the box but would it be better to have the freeway goes below the current grade, similar to Houston's South Freeway

Maybe, maybe not.  One must also remember that in south Louisiana that the water table is often just barely below the surface.  The is a very good reason why I-10 is elevated through New Orleans and not in a trench.  It's the very same reason why the cemeteries are above ground.  Dig down a couple of shovelfuls of soil and you get water.  Lots and lots of water.

Lafayette's elevation isnt as low as New Orleans. Just to the north, in the Carencro area, there are hills.

Jefferson St. dips below to a railroad similiar to New Orleans the one between the 610 spilt and Metarie Rd exit. I wonder if it floods after heavy rains like the one in New Orleans.

The Jefferson St. underpass of the UP/BNSF railway has pumps to drain away water during flood events.

A depressed/cut-and-cover option was very heavily considered for the I-49 Connector project, but was rejected ultimately due to the questionable hydralics, the closure of too many cross streets, and the need to maintain the freeway as a hurricane evacuation route for Lafayette and points to the south and east.  Also, there would have to be a sharp transition between the elevated and depressed sections from around Willow St. to Mudd Avenue due to the proximity of a coulee (small bayou) that runs parallel to a railroad spur of the L&D RR that crosses the Thruway just south of Willow Street. Keeping the freeway elevated made much more sense under present circumstances.

Those "hills" are in fact the Coteau/Teche Ridge which divides the generally flat plain from the Atchafalaya/Mississippi floodplain.

Im sure they're hydraulic pumps that can handle the task but I doubt LaDOTD could design them. I would prefer DOTD look at Dutch engineers to design these but Im sure the "Buy American Clause" prohibits this.

Only way I see to maintain the hurricane route is to build the Lafayette Loop before the 49 goes thru downtown. Easier said than done.

Im looking at the coulee and where does it flow to on the west side of Evangeline Thruway? Seems as though is goes underground. Could the water be drained away from the interstate 49?

I think they jumped the gun by throwing out the idea. It may have taken extra planning, more time and a little more engineering but it could be done. Not sure how different the cost would be but elevated freeways aren't cheap and are often built and never upgraded due to cost. The Westbank Expressway might be the best the state has and is average at best.

[ShawnP]

Given Lafeyette's low water table I would think a depressed roadway would be hard to do.

[bugo]

Coulees in Louisiana?

[bugo]

I like overhead freeways too.  The Embarcadero was a work of art.

[Anthony_JK]

Im sure they're hydraulic pumps that can handle the task but I doubt LaDOTD could design them. I would prefer DOTD look at Dutch engineers to design these but Im sure the "Buy American Clause" prohibits this.

Since I-49 would be a federal project, the federal government as well as the state would fund any upgrade of the pumps. Actally, the pumps at the Jefferson St. underpass were built and are maintained by Lafayette Consolidated Government, not LADOTD, since Jefferson St. there is not part of the state system.  Also, the pumps are pretty old; I'd assume that if the freeway was built, they would be upgraded.

Only way I see to maintain the hurricane route is to build the Lafayette Loop before the 49 goes thru downtown. Easier said than done.

Not doable, because the Lafayette Metro Expressway west loop or Teche Ridge (East) Alternative would require at least 6 years of study, not to mention NEPA approval and engineering, and would not attract anywhere near enough traffic from the existing Evangeline Thruway to be self sufficient.

I'm looking at the coulee and where does it flow to on the west side of Evangeline Thruway? Seems as though is goes underground. Could the water be drained away from the interstate 49?

No, it doesn't flow on the west side of the Thruway; it runs parallel to and on the north side of the L&DRR spur where it crosses the Thruway just south of the Donlon Avenue/Walmart entrance road. It's not particularly deep, so there would be a major issue with bypassing the flow away via pumping.

I think they jumped the gun by throwing out the idea. It may have taken extra planning, more time and a little more engineering but it could be done. Not sure how different the cost would be but elevated freeways aren't cheap and are often built and never upgraded due to cost. The Westbank Expressway might be the best the state has and is average at best.

The impact of closing off major cross streets and more directly impacting Sterling Grove, especially the St. Genevive Catholic Church which directly fronts the northbound roadway of Evangeline Thruway, would undermine any benefit of avoiding the visual impact. In any case, the selected alignment's deviation from the thruway from Mudd Ave. to near 12th St/Taft St. effectively elimanates any option other than the elevated freeway.

The WBX doesn't have anywhere near the asthetic design coverage that the I-49 Connector will get...you're comparing apples and oranges here. And sometimes, the cheapest option isn't necessarily the best.

[Anthony_JK]

This paragraph from the I-49 Connector ROD specifically addresses why the depressed/'cut-and-cover" options were ultimately rejected:

Regarding the depressed freeway, this alternative was considered by FHWA and LaDOTD as marginally feasible hydraulically. As stated in the FEIS, (Pages 2-30 to 2-31), "Upon review of the study by state and federal agencies, it was decided that while the depressed freeway may be technically feasible as indicated by the hydraulic calculations, several issues with which a level of uncertainty regarding proper performance would exist. It was concluded that these issues, coupled with the importance of the I-49 freeway as a hurricane evacuation route, were enough to make a decision that the depressed alternative for the core area should be removed from consideration."  Thus, the depressed alternative was deemed not safe or practical for the project and was rejected from further study.

[Anthony_JK]

Oh, to the BOOM!!!

The LADOTD just posted today a Notice of Intent to procure a Design-Build contract to upgrade the segment of US 90 from the Albertsons' Parkway/St. Nazaire Road intersection to the southern terminus of the Ambassador Caffery Parkway.

The proposal would solicit a contractor to do both the design and construction of this segment of I-49 South, which would include the following:

1) An interchange/grade seperation at Albertsons'  Parkway/St. Nazaire Road;
2) One-way access/frontage roads from Albertsons' Parkway to the proposed Ambassador Caffery Pkwy interchange;
3) Widening of mainline US 90/I-49 South to six lanes (2x3, with reconstruction/widening of the existing UP/BNSF railroad overpass);
4) New grade-seperated crossings of the UP/BNSF rail line for the new frontage roads;
5) Incorporating LA 182 into the frontage road system for easier and more logical access/transition with US 90/Future I-49.

According to LADOTD, they expect to let the contract for the design/build by no later than January of next year. The total cost for this phase of I-49 South is listed at $75-80 million. The Ambassador Caffery interchange is not included in this, as it will be done under a seperate contract.

The pdf file announcement can be found here:

http://www.dotd.la.gov/highways/contractservices/H.010620/I-49_NOI_%28May_1_2013%29.pdf

Finally!!! The end of the beginning, I hope.

[ShawnP]

Good catch and great news. One project at a time. I have no doubt that it won't get done as the political will is there for it to get done. Once I-49 north gets done (including ICC) I see it as really kicking into gear. Of course I try to be optimistic. I see I-49 happening long before I-69 in LA.

Oh, to the BOOM!!!

The LADOTD just posted today a Notice of Intent to procure a Design-Build contract to upgrade the segment of US 90 from the Albertsons' Parkway/St. Nazaire Road intersection to the southern terminus of the Ambassador Caffery Parkway.

The proposal would solicit a contractor to do both the design and construction of this segment of I-49 South, which would include the following:

1) An interchange/grade seperation at Albertsons'  Parkway/St. Nazaire Road;
2) One-way access/frontage roads from Albertsons' Parkway to the proposed Ambassador Caffery Pkwy interchange;
3) Widening of mainline US 90/I-49 South to six lanes (2x3, with reconstruction/widening of the existing UP/BNSF railroad overpass);
4) New grade-seperated crossings of the UP/BNSF rail line for the new frontage roads;
5) Incorporating LA 182 into the frontage road system for easier and more logical access/transition with US 90/Future I-49.

According to LADOTD, they expect to let the contract for the design/build by no later than January of next year. The total cost for this phase of I-49 South is listed at $75-80 million. The Ambassador Caffery interchange is not included in this, as it will be done under a seperate contract.

The pdf file announcement can be found here:

http://www.dotd.la.gov/highways/contractservices/H.010620/I-49_NOI_%28May_1_2013%29.pdf

Finally!!! The end of the beginning, I hope.

[Anthony_JK]

And, right on cue, here comes the detractors who still dream for the Teche Ridge Eastern Bypass through St. Martin Parish for I-49 South:

There's life yet in I-49 route
Resolution could revive Teche Ridge bypass

As momentum builds to complete Interstate 49 South from Lafayette to New Orleans, a state legislator wants to resurrect the less costly Teche Ridge route that would bypass Lafayette.

State Rep. Terry Landry, D-Lafayette, introduced a study resolution last week asking the state Department of Transportation and Development and the House and Senate committees on transportation, highways and public works to study the feasibility and costs of the Teche Ridge route as an alternate to I-49 South. The findings of the study would be reported during the 2014 regular legislative session.

The section of I-49 South planned through Lafayette will cost about $1 billion to build. The remainder, to the west bank of New Orleans, will cost $5 billion to $6 billion.

Neither the state nor the federal government has set aside anything more than a fraction of that amount.

Alternate routes, including Teche Ridge, were considered but rejected years ago in favor of the current plan that roughly follows Evangeline Thruway from the current terminus of I-49 in Lafayette to past Lafayette Regional Airport.

The section that skirts downtown Lafayette would be elevated and is the costliest section.

"Since 1992, we've been studying and studying and studying,"  Kam Movassaghi, a former state DOTD secretary and member of the Greater Lafayette Chamber of Commerce's I-49 Task Force, said.

"We had looked at every alternative route. We looked at going to the east. We looked at going to the west. We looked at going through the center, and then ultimately, the choice was to go down Evangeline Thruway."

Landry said Tuesday that he supports the completion of I-49, but if it's so costly it won't ever be funded, it's time to consider alternatives that are not as expensive.

"This study is not going to stop the project or initiatives. It just says if we can't recognize the $1 billion, maybe we should look at another route,"  Landry said.

"I-49 is critical to our economy, it's critical to hurricane evacuation, and I think we ought to be looking at alternative routes."

State Rep. Mike Huval, R-Breaux Bridge, who co-sponsored the resolution, said the lack of funding is preventing the completion of I-49 from Iberia Parish to Interstate 10 in Lafayette.

The Teche Ridge route may be "a quicker solution and a better opportunity and bring about more economic development for St. Martin and Lafayette parishes,"  he said.

Movassaghi said a study cannot be completed in a year. Such studies take five to 10 years and cost several million dollars.

The Federal Highway Administration granted the current proposed route a record of decision, which means "every requirement has been satisfied,"  including environmental, social and economic requirements, he said.

State Sen. Brett Allain, R-Franklin, recently began organizing a nonprofit coalition of stakeholders interested in completing I-49 South along the existing proposed route.

The group is raising money to hire a full-time employee to lobby for the project and consider alternate funding sources.

Fortunately, this won't fly any more than when it was first proposed in 2001. Teche Ridge would still cost nearly $700-800 million to build, would require nearly 5 years of studies before even considering design and construction, would not remove any traffic from the existing Evangeline Thruway/US 90 corridor, and would run directly contrary to the federal statutes the clearly deleniate the I-49 South corridor as running along the Evangeline Thruway and US 90 corridors. Plus, yesterday's announcement of LADOTD initiating a Design/Build contract for US 90 from Broussard south to Ambassador Caffery Parkway basically blows the argument for Teche Ridge out of the water.

I wouldn't mind incorporating Teche Ridge into a future full Lafayette Outer Loop, along with the Lafayette Metro Expressway (LMX)..but NOT until the Connector and US 90 is completed.

[bassoon1986]

Oh, to the BOOM!!!

The LADOTD just posted today a Notice of Intent to procure a Design-Build contract to upgrade the segment of US 90 from the Albertsons' Parkway/St. Nazaire Road intersection to the southern terminus of the Ambassador Caffery Parkway.

The proposal would solicit a contractor to do both the design and construction of this segment of I-49 South, which would include the following:

1) An interchange/grade seperation at Albertsons'  Parkway/St. Nazaire Road;
2) One-way access/frontage roads from Albertsons' Parkway to the proposed Ambassador Caffery Pkwy interchange;
3) Widening of mainline US 90/I-49 South to six lanes (2x3, with reconstruction/widening of the existing UP/BNSF railroad overpass);
4) New grade-seperated crossings of the UP/BNSF rail line for the new frontage roads;
5) Incorporating LA 182 into the frontage road system for easier and more logical access/transition with US 90/Future I-49.

According to LADOTD, they expect to let the contract for the design/build by no later than January of next year. The total cost for this phase of I-49 South is listed at $75-80 million. The Ambassador Caffery interchange is not included in this, as it will be done under a seperate contract.

The pdf file announcement can be found here:

http://www.dotd.la.gov/highways/contractservices/H.010620/I-49_NOI_%28May_1_2013%29.pdf

Finally!!! The end of the beginning, I hope.

Awesome!

Just a side note, I looked at google street maps for that interchange now to revive my memory of what it looked like. The LA 182 exit still showed older green filled Louisiana shields. Are those still there? I seem to remember that maybe those signs were clearview when I drove through there about 4 years ago so the shields definitely would have been white on the BGS

[NE2]

the federal statutes the clearly deleniate the I-49 South corridor as running along the Evangeline Thruway and US 90 corridors.

[citation needed]

All I see is "United States Route 90 from I-49 in Lafayette, Louisiana, to I-10 in New Orleans", which is physically impossible to build. And does this mean it must cross the Huey Long Bridge and follow Jefferson-Claiborne?